>uses Wayland for the first time and the RAM usage while actually doing work is almost halvedWhy does no one talk about this?
>>106444413Quads of TRUTH.>Why does no one talk about this?We do.
>>106444413is this while taking in account the wayland+compositor or just wayland?
>>106444435>Quads of TRUTHback to /pol/ newfag
>>106445808The joke was that those quads aren't "true" quads.
>>106445736Wayland using Sway which is a Compositor/WM compared to Qtile and i3 on X11 with a basic Picom. It seems that X11 keeps extra buffers and having the WM and Compositor separate adds more buffers.The only problem with Wayland is if you copy a large block of code from chromium it will crash, so you have to use wl-paste > file. Also screen sharing for electron apps requires a hacky third party fix via xwaylandvideobridge. However, those will likely be fixed in the near future.I also am impressed with Wayland smoothness. I've spent a lot of time tweaking Picom to get it looking smooth, but it's always missing that last few percent.
>>106445995>However, those will likely be fixed in the near futuretwo more years? XD
>>106445995sway is debian level stable at this point. bugs do get fixed but it can take a while. but its also a good thing if you dont want breaking changes or new bugs added to your wm. if you want a changes rolled out on a xfce timeline but for wayland, sway is the way to go.where as after updating hyprland today i needed to update an option in my config because its no longer valid.
>>106445886A bit too deep
>>106444413X11 is solved at this point and it's fucking trivial to spin up a window and do shit with it. I'm not learning a whole new api for 0 benefit and with a possible loss in portability in the process (last I checked certain things weren't even portable across Wayland implementations meaning I'll have to potentially remake shit for both kde and fucking gnome lol).
>>106446265> sway isMost of of us don’t even know or care what “sway” is. Never heard of it.You might was well just get together in a private discord server and cluck with each other like hens.Sorry, if “cluck” is some other wayland component, i didn’t mean to offend anyone to the point of self-flagellation or beyond.
>>106445995Picom itself uses more buffers for triple buffering. Gnome wayland does that as well. But anyways you can remove all of that extra memory usage by using picom in xrender mode instead of opengl in which case it will use less memory than sway. Thats true for applications on x11 in general. You can do all desktop applications rendering on the server to reduce memory usage. That's not possible on wayland.
>>106447535>>106444413Here is the memory usage of picom with xrender vs glx
>>106447535My understanding is that X-accelerated rendering is barely used at all, most modern applications just write to a frame buffer and tell X to show it on screen in a given position, which is why using X over SSH for complex applications sucks ass (it’s just sending a bunch of images, and the X wire protocol isn’t optimised for that).
>>106447561I’d be interested into whether the overall memory usage is the same though, it sounds like shifting to XRender would just move the buffers from picom to the X server, given that XRender is similar in nature to OpenGL
>>106447613The memory usage is reduced since it reduces the amount of buffers it uses but also because every application that uses opengl/vulkan has a large memory cost even without buffers. A graphics context uses a lot of memory. This is true on windows as well. When you use one process and share that it removes that overhead.>My understanding is that X-accelerated rendering is barely used at allIt's used by all gtk3 and qt applications.>most modern applications just write to a frame buffer and tell X to show it on screen in a given position, which is why using X over SSH for complex applications sucks assMost modern applications use opengl, but they can actually work well remote over ssh as well. It's just that most applications try to force direct rendering. There is an environment variable to overwrite that behavior in glx applications, to force indirect rendering. When the driver receives opengl operations from the client and indirect rendering is enabled it will redirect all opengl calls to the X server
>>106447675I forgot to quote >>106447593 for the quotes
>>106447561That is quite the difference. I'll have to try that out because I'm not trying to do anything fancy with Picom, just have basic compositing and not tap out my laptop's ram when I use it for work.
>>106446835Why would you be fucking gnome?
>>106447675I was (mistakenly) only referring to use of the X11 widgets being accelerated. I wasn’t aware that GLX could be coerce into rendering client side (X client/server terminology is annoying. Here I mean the remote user SSHing into another computer and running applications on it has GL rendering instructions sent to their machine)I also believe there’d definitely be an improvement, but that the difference from 66MB to <1MB is probably exaggerating the gain. I doubt the overhead of buffer management structures would be more than 20% of memory usage, the majority would just be holding frame buffer data, and that doesn’t change either way, only the record keeping would. I’d also be interested as to the downsides. I’m not familiar enough with X11 to know. My understanding of Wayland is that it essentially just acts as a system for applications to throw frame buffers around, and windowing and whatnot is built atop that (hence why it’s such a different beast from X11, and lacks a lot of the “batteries included” type stuff. At the end of the day it’s just an IPC spec)
>Quads of TRUTH.Fucking indians are browning the internet, mate, for fuck's sake
>>106448626I just checked memory usage of Xorg process now with picom xrender and it doesn't increase memory usage at all>>106447858If all you want is to fix tearing then you can enable the TearFree option in xorg settings instead. Unfortunately this hasn't been put in a release in the modesetting driver (despite being added 3 years ago and even enabled by default), but you can use the amd/intel x11 driver which has that option.
>>106445736Wtf are you talking about lmao
>>106451282>I just checked memory usage of Xorg process now with picom xrender and it doesn't increase memory usage at allTo be more specific, it doesn't increase ram usage but it does increase vram usage, but so does picom with glx. Picom with glx increases vram usage in xorg much more than xrender does and also uses vram in the picom process, so it ends up using 10 times more vram for glx than xrender.
Wayland is the most retardedly-hated thing hereRetardedly meaning it's actually fucking great and just werks but the troons here just want to rage at something because their faces still look like male
I never had problems with Wayland on AMDNow, on nvidia it's a fucking nightmare, and this is right now, not years ago.
>>106444413wayland mostly uses vram and almost no ram, unless your compositor uses a software renderer, which is very unlikely, unless you forced it yourself
>>106452677Any graphical application uses quite a lot of ram, even when your application is 100% opengl/vulkan hardware accelerated. Im not exactly sure why, but this is the case on windows as well. There is something in the driver doing that.
>>106445736gayland mandates a compositor, you can't have it with a simple tiling or stacking wm, just a compositor that also supports these features (like kwin)
>>106452774I haven't read a lot of the wayland protocol but does it really mandate a compositor? or is it just what every implementation has chosen to do since the wayland protocol itself doesn't expose external compositor use (without an implementation adding their own protocols for that)?
>>106452408>and just werksnot if you need accessibility options because of your disabilities or if you have an app that wants to position itself on the screen
>>106452408Except it doesn't? a retard wants to use discord and press a key to unmute microphone. That doesn't really work on wayland yet. It just werks on x11.
Why the fuck are so many things tied to a display server?Why the fuck can't I paste the same way because I want something to be able to handle HDR?
>>106453148If you have one fullscreen application that uses hdr then technically the display server doesn't do much (in the case of kde it still does, for better hdr quality or whatever). But if hdr is enabled and the game isn't displaying hdr then the display server (or more specifically the compositor) needs to convert the sdr to hdr to display, and thats especially true in window mode where you are guaranteed to have applications that dont support hdr while others may. You also need to map the hdr range from the application to the monitor.
>>106446299That's... not what she said
>>106444413I already made a thread about it, but people are too busy with ideological bickering. They are just as bad as GNOME devs who can't see use cases beyond their own.>>106445736Compositor without XWayland running in the background.>>106447561Picom + Openbox is very light on RAM, but Xfwm4 + xpresent is lighter on CPU load, which I find much more salient.
>>106452885>use meme distro made for tinkerers>why doesnt everything just work why am i expected to tinkerUse Bazzite or admit you are unemployed.
>>106454879>BazziteLmao stop using meme distros: https://youtu.be/Bute69Oj87I?si=TwX_vtX3OlqCbZBq&t=1440>distro chooses btrfs meme filesystem>btrfs corrupts your filesystem because the distro ships with 1 day old code
>>106452408stop making a protocol your entire identity
>>106451282>Unfortunately this hasn't been put in a release in the modesetting driverIt has in my OS because we use Xenocara and the people in control of the repo aren't attempting to kill the project for no reason.
>>106444413Because you get attacked by retarded contrarians scared of any form of change.X11 is such a fucking mess, there's no real coming back. Even the core dev team openly say this. I know this is a consoomurist board but for huge legacy projects with so much technical and desgn debt sometimes burning it all to the ground and starting again really is the only way.Wayland was a clusterfuck only a few years ago, definitely. I wouldn't have even called it beta software, but today in 2020+5 it's breddy good and works out of the box without drama.It's hit that point of comfortably doing the same job while being magnitudes more secure and is being mainlined as default into many distros which will only accelerate work and bugfixes.
>>106456318>Even the core dev team openly say this.>core dev team>bunch of faggots that wrote none of the code>bunch of faggots camping on the repo>bunch of faggots that refuse to merge contributors>bunch of faggots that openly say they want it dead>bunch of faggots that still can't put out a working replacement after 16 yearsCORE DEVS
>>106452885holly, actual skill issue.
>>106444413they both perform same DOEgtk
qt
>>106444413It actually eats your frames in exchange for less RAM usage. Trust me I know how it works.
>>106452754I imagine it’d depend heavily on whether the graphical stack can handle being given VRAM handles. In a lot of cases I imagine it’s easier to copy shit to the CPU and RAM so you don’t have to deal with per-GPU handling when moving framebuffers and whatnot around
why does no one talk about how the logo looks like piss and jizz
>>106458014but that's good anon
>>106444413I just wish more things supported Wayland
>>106459843This
>>106456318>lust provoking image>retarded opinionevery single time
>>106456406>bunch of faggots that refuse to merge contributors>>bunch of faggots that openly say they want it dead>bunch of faggots that still can't put out a working replacement after 16 yearsstop noticing
i still cannot believe that an always togglable always persistent terminal is so rare in 2025.
>>106460300yakuake? (or just use a tty)
>>106460328yakuake cant do the things i want on wayland. it needs to be 100% of the time always on top when visible and togglable with a global keybind unconditionally.
>>106447561Based, DT stuck with X11 because he knew wayland wasn't ready. He doesn't like his compositor to be bloated, only his throat bloated with black cocks.
>>106460346I did a quick search, and apparently gayland killed the tty switch (Ctrl+Alt+F2 etc), too.BUT IT JUST WERKS, EVERYONE
>>106460270I too, get hard when looking at outside malls with no brown people
>>106460383idc about that. switching to tty was a wierd suggestion and i ignored it intentionally. anyway switching to tty did work last i tried a few months ago.
>>106460408why is it a weird suggestion? it's literally what you asked for, except it doesn't have scrollback
>>106460427ok autist. we can focus on always on top for a second. sure a tty is always on top in the most literal sense but a reasonable person would assume always on top meant always on top of other interactable things on the desktop in real time.you arent clever, your annoying and people hate you.
>>106460465>always on top meant always on top of other interactable things on the desktopnot if you like using virtual desktopsyou could even make +1 virtual desktop and just have a terminal emulator run there
>>106460511this is a pretty good example of why watland is so bad really. a simple working solution already exist but you(the devs, not literally you(i wouldnt usually have to specify but youve proved to be cripplingly autistic)) just wont do it.
>>106460541>proved to be cripplingly autisticyou got me therebut then again, I'd rather not use computers again than touch gayland or systemd
xcape doesn't work on wayland, won't use it
How is it possible that Linux still has not solved the GUI? Windows solved it 30 years ago. You had 30 years to fix your GUI. Is this the most unsuccessful software project ever done? Not even trolling. What the fuck is the problem? I'm starting to think Linux GUI devs should be banned from ever making software again.
>>106460603same with SimpleScreenRecorderthe mere idea of having to use pipewire+OBS to record your own screen with gayland is both outrageous and hilarious at the same time
>>106460672GPU Screen Recorder works like a charm.
>>106460642>Not even trolling.That makes it obvious you actually are trolling for attention, which is absolutely pathetic.
>>106445995> The only problem with Wayland is if you copy a large block of code from chromium it will crash, so you have to use wl-paste > file. Also screen sharing for electron apps requires a hacky third party fix via xwaylandvideobridge. However, those will likely be fixed in the near future.Lmfao people keep saying "xorg is dead and obsolete! Wayland is perfect!" and then i hear you still can't do daily driver stuff like copying large amounts of text without something crashing. And it's not like some edge case it's literally something everyone does all day every day
