>The future of Linux app distribution is 2GB flatpak/appimage/snaps (all incompatible) with completely opaque system permissions that ship an entire static copy of the operating system that never receives security updates
I suspect many devs like to distribute in the form of a flatsnap because their build environment is intentionally tricky and arcane so people don't compile shit themselves. They are slowly weaning off the power users from the previously common practice of building software yourself.If your home directory doesn't already have a /bin/ and a /lib/ and an /include/ and a /src/ etc. well? You're a newb. I guess fewer people are bringing their 'toolkit' with them from machine to machine these days.
read it as massive skill issue
I personally wanted appimages to win, or some purely portable format that packed configs tooapparently the chinese also have linyaps
>>106457425>flatpak/appimage/snapswhy bother with this crap if you still need to maintain 3 different types of packages? at that point just make packages for debian and arch, and everybody else can get fucked or build it from source.
>>106457425Flatpak/appimage/snaps are a solution in search of a problem. I will never use them and neither should you.
>>106457480>I suspect many devs like to distribute in the form of a flatsnap because their build environment is intentionally tricky and arcane so people don't compile shit themselves. They are slowly weaning off the power users from the previously common practice of building software yourself.yes
>>106457425nah, the future is nix. containers are retarded.
>>106457425i tried linux for a few weeks. as a normal casual pc user who does emulation shit and some steam gaming... i had 0 issues with flatpak stuff. my problem was that linux is like a store brand windows.
>>106457425Python was a warning shot for this shit. Just download an entire 8 GB docker image to run this Python code! Set up a virtual environment and install old versions of software, because every time something updates it breaks everything that uses it!Linux developers can't understand that stable interfaces are important, so this is the inevitable result. At least Windows has the Microsoft VCC runtime that just works no matter how many times you update it.
Literally the only option for true freedom lies in ReactOS. Everything else is pozzed, tranny'd, kiked or worse.>muh distros>muh packages>muh 5 years (((LTS))>muh kernel drivers (deprecated)
>>106457696You say this like every major windows app, especially games, doesn't ship with GB's of the same DLL's as eachother for this exact reason.
>>106457425>with completely opaque system permissionsNot true with flatpak and it's not any different than regular apps with bwrap or firejail> entire static copy of the operating systemExaggeration>never receives security updatesNot true.Why you have to make this shit up about superior appimages/flatpaks vs. "just trust a bunch of random package maintainers"
>>106457760I was under the impression that reactos hasn't been worked on for years, and this was years ago!
>>106457659.appimage is the linux alt to .paf.exe
>>106457581>I personally wanted appimages to win, or some purely portable formatI will admit that appimages are exactly what I've been wanting for years. I remember on windows you could put a bunch of .exes on a flash drive and run them on any computer but when I moved to linux now every computer has different libraries and fucking nothing works.
>>106459260Appimage/Flatpak hate is just /g/ contrarianism. Apparently trusting random package maintainers is better than trusting the developer. Apparently having a single file that works on any Linux system is le bad.
>>106457425winchads can't stop winning!
>>106459379WINchadsWINdows
>>106457425Nah, I'll build from source.
>>106457425security updates never prevented anything
>>106459779more like windowns, kek
>>106457425Native packages aren't going away. Distros still need to convince people to use them over other distros.
>>106459241That's not true. It's just the dev team is small and obviously very unfunded. Troons prefer to dedicate their brains to Nintendo emulators or Rust.
Flatpak and AppImage just werks. Wish I could say the same about Snap. There's some weird fuckery going on.>>106457480>I suspect many devs like to distribute in the form of a flatsnap because their build environment is intentionally tricky and arcane so people don't compile shit themselves.Holy fucking schizophrenia. People like you MAKE me want to start doing exactly that.
>>106457425windows doesn't have this problem
>>106462195Also >>106460721 is the way. Fuck dynamic linking, by the way.
>>106462195>AppImage>just werksHasn't been my experience
>>106459233Dolphin Emu on Windows is 60 MiB (All it's dependencies are barely 5MiB combined and are shared and backwards compatible between all program that use it, no matter how old. Worst case, they're separated with different names so you can have those redistributables from all eras. Even in the impossibly worse case, local dlls override external dlls so if a program needs a very specific dll incompatible (lol) with other programs, you can just copy those into it's directory and it'll work. You can also turn any program portable(besides config(which some programs support making portable explicitly with a "portable.txt")) with this simple trick.).Meanwhile on flatpak it's 1.5GiB, and doesn't confer any benefits that Windows does.Why can't Linux adopt a simple model where programs use a compatible library if available on system and unavailable/conflicting libs can be just dropped into their separate installation folder?This is the one thing that windows literally did "solve".
>>106463124From what I heard, flatpak will use compatible libraries from other flatpak programs if they're available.
>>106463191Doesn't work on my fucking machine, not yet atleast.Every single flatpak downloads nvidia drivers separately.If it's implemented, maybe flatpak will finally be bearable
>>106457760it's still only meant to run in a virtual machine. reactos will never be bare metal ready.
>>106463410There's nothing fundamentally stopping it from running on bare metal. It just needs more capable developers to add/fix the needed parts.USB was unusable in the previous version and now at least the stack exists.Not to mention it's been shown to run on bare metal on specific (lucky) setups.
appimages are great tho
>>106463529>There's nothing fundamentally stopping it from running on bare metal.>It just needs more capable developers to add/fix the needed parts.You're welcome to be the one to fund it or if you can't afford it then help develop it. Otherwise again... ReactOS will never be bare metal ready. Maybe once Windows is on version 20 it'll be ready.
>>106463564I used to donate to them. Now I'm a poorfag so I can't.I won't learn C or OS dev, I'm too retarded for that.
>>106463381>Every single flatpak downloads nvidia drivers separately.lol what in the actual fuckNot even your fucking drivers are system-wide? I have to wonder what sort of retarded decision-making process resulted in something like that.
>>106464074>believing a retardsmdh
>>106464074The Drivers are systemwide. flatpak just doesn't care. It downloads them over and over again for no reason. Every other program can use them just fine.
2025 and packages are still a problem on Linux, so much for the superior OS. In the end is an OS built for autists.
>>106462608The thing with appimages is they have to choose between either having a huge size by including pretty much everything they depend on to work, or making assumptions about the things your distro probably already comes with and the version. Most choose the later using something popular like ubuntu as the target so it often doesn't work on other distros, specially the ones that barely install anything by default
>>106464074Not the drivers, just mesa on amd and idk what the nvidia equivalent for that is called but that anon is a retard for calling it the nvidia drivers. Not having mesa as part of flatpak would be retarded since flatpak applications are supposed to work on practically any system just by having the flatpal runtime, using the system mesa (or whatever the nvidia equivalent is called) would make it so it doesn't work if it requires a newer version than the one your distro packages, which is often the case for new games on non-rolling distros
>>106457425
Any application for which POSIX is a sufficient set of libraries can be published without library bundling, right? That's a start to work from.Of course, that mindset requires avoiding any technology that isn't consistently backward-compatible. PYTHON.
>>106457425only complaint I have with flatpak is it's some bespoke containerization instead of just re-using OCI.otherwise it's fine. stop being a bitch and learn how to use flatseal.
I reckon that the heroes of this war will be the schizos who refuse to use libraries. I don't know how that will work for GUI programming, though, and everything these days has to have a point-and-click interface for some reason. Maybe we need to bring back TUIs.
>>106457480>no one wants to deal with shitty build systems with poorly specified system and vendored dependencies.blame C for not standardizing building and package management. then go blame Bjarne for the same thing in the C++ committee.
>>106464074he's using nvidia. he's already a fucking idiot and he probably has no clue what he's talking about.
>>106464475Some things can be quite the pain to get working with flatpak, for example getting password managers to connect to extensions in flatpaked browsers is a pain and requires the flatpak version to have implemented using the portal required. A lot of the complex things are technically possible to get working with flatseal but requiring an amount of info searching and tinkering that filters out a lot of users
>>106463124>Dolphin Emu on Windows is 60 MiB>conveniently ignores the GiBs of shit implicitly expected to exist on windows to make it work.just stop talking. Winjeets don't even know how Windows works.
>>106464548The OS utilities? Shell Integration? Yeah every fucking thing uses it.My point is what flatpak adds and duplicates. I forgot what exactly it was but there were 300 MiB of Nvidia drivers (Shared on both OSes but flatpak doesn't seem to respect that. I mean it can't possibly be running them as an unprivileged user application) and around 700MiB of a KDE component which slips my mind.And every program that uses qt pulled that. My install was solid a long time ago so the name isn't coming to me, but if any anons could confirm, that'd be great.You can throw 3(three) dlls from the vcredist 2015-22 package in the folder and it will run on fresh windows installs no problem.
>>106464655>I forgot what exactly it was but there were 300 MiB of Nvidia driversyou made the mistake of buying an nshittia which has a nonfree usermode and kernel driver and surprised it doesn't just "magically" work in flatpak? do you realize those things may come with non-distribution clauses restricting flatpak from distributing a runtime similar to how Mesa is distributed?blame novideo, not open source software devs. faggot. didn't read past that.
.deb files are all anyone needs, really
>>106464766what happens when you can't satisfy listed dependencies?what about isolation?
>>106464697What about the KDE component I mentioned?And I bought ShitGreedia almost 10 years ago at this point when I was a naive fuck. What the fuck else do you want from my poor GT1030 faggot?
>>106464787>what happens when you can't satisfy listed dependencies?Erm, install them?>what about isolation?Use case?
>>106464807>Erm, install them?...how? do you think apt can magically find deps that it can't find in your distro's repo?
>>106457425The only good ending is for developers to stop using huge bloated libraries for everything, then just statically link. Until this happens, it's all just bandaids and copes. Not sure how long we'll have to wait though.
>>106464813You can configure apt to use additional repos for newer package versions
Never amazes me how this board is made up of some of the most poor people you could find with a PC at times
>>106464832>t. inker tranny
>>106464825>just static link brook, how do you statically link:Vulkan/GL userspace driversSoundeven basic shit like X.org interactions require dynamic linking.>>106464832>breaks system with conflictsyou literally do not know what you're talking about.
>>106464844Everything can require dynamic linking if the person writing it is retarded enough. Just look at glibc. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be statically linked in theory.>Vulkan/GL userspace driversHow often is that a real issue in practice compared to inane crap like QT or whatever?
>>106463410I managed to run it just fine on my old Jetway Atom 330 board and that was a couple years ago.
Just where do you get those ideas from?Enterprise Linux sysadmin here: package management at the OS level is already solved with many different solutions that cover specialized use cases, from embedded to supercomputers, all with open-source bases you can more or less use if you're a regular end-user.Flatpaks/Snap/appimage are mostly visible at the end-user level, and we pretty much allow them for workstation users only (only exception I can vaguely remember is some ubuntu-landscape packages distributed via snap).Docker/podman/containers are very visible at the developer level and we also support them via different solutions.Yesterday, I patched (upgraded) around 200 infrastructure servers via automation, with no outstanding issues, all licensed and making money, so I don't know why would you think this is an issue.
>>106459260I never had an issue with AppImages. I really appreciate when GUI software devz provides them, because it's really plug and play. Download, put it in a dedicated folder, click click boom, no fucking around with ldd or dpkg or anything. For complex GUI programs it's perfect.
Also the little vetting maintainers got from distros is now completely gone and the sandbox they promise will improve security not even used.
