C sisters..

How did americans turned programming languages into sport teams to cheer on like retards?

>>106459799
>It is a peculiar experience to know more and have a better understating that the CS celebrity, whose book you have read as a teenager.
what language is this

>>106460367
human english written too fast (in an attempt to keep up with the quick stream of thoughts), and without any proof reading (because who the fuck cares).
most people here don't recognize it because they don't have brains that work much faster than hands. so it's often mistaken as "ESL", often by jeets who use LLMs to check their language no less, which always gets a chuckle out of me.
i'm the kind of person who watches videos at 2.5x+ speed for it to not sound too slow. so i recognize the patterns and mistakes OP made.
----
s/that/than
or
s/that the/than that of a

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>>106459799
I love Rust, so please kill yourself right now. Your condescending word salad is why we have cnile raids on Rust threads in the first place. It's not even correct.
>Any process can be “swapped out” between any two imperative instructions (by the kernel) and god knows what will happen before it resumes
Nothing will happen because of hardware context switching, something you know nothing about
>An OS can move your data in memory at a whim, but not the offsets, which are the proper notion of a reference within a more realistic and RAII-like restricted memory model.
What are you smoking? Each process gets its own flat address space with virtual addressing. What do you think your references even compile to? A Rust reference is a literal pointer type
I'm not reading any more of that pseud bullshit. Kys

>>106460543
>xbox gamer tier insult vocabulary
>supports rust
I'm fairly certain you were bullied as a child, became a bully yourself and are currently under antiandrogen treatment.
Real Chads use C-like language, it simply rhymes and C is a divine gift in a world filled with evil people like rust supporters who want to make programming unnecessarily difficult and time consuming.
Mozilla is a woke psyop anyway, rust is the concord of programming languages.

>>106460638
wrong (((You))), meant OP >>106459799

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>>106459799
LOL, why title it to Kernighan, if there no mention of him and slashdot post, throughout the entire text..

It's more of idiot taking tidbits only to invent his own history.
Then comes the usual rust marketing and hostility. With makes Rust so sad, i'm sure it could be a great language if they put half the marketing effort into the project code & documentation.

>>106460543
>I love Rust
same
>Your condescending word salad is why we have cnile raids on Rust threads
it's not why lol
>It's not even correct.
That is true. the blogger is clearly a young (or young-ish) FP tard who is too excited, overconfident in his/her own knowledge, too absolutest in his/her descriptions, opinions, and conclusions, and finally, lacking in concrete low-level knowledge.

>>106460856
>his/her, his/her, his/her
kys tranny

>>106461063
rent free

>>106459799
I do want to learn Rust if it's any good.
I have heard you don't have to free memory (automatic) on rust, that sounds great.

>>106460543
didn't read it either but from your impression if he doesn't even know how virtual memory work this gay nigger deserve to be ignored

>>106459942
The Biden administration funneled a bunch of tax dollars mixed into dark money through US AID to NGO's to both get that money back through pure graft (family members sitting on boards or working contracts) and to tear down existing power structures.

Rust rewrites are the tech sector equivalent of "defund the police". Instead of replacing cops with social workers; they're replacing competent and independent tech sector with transexuals and political activists.

>>106461123
schizo post

>>106461131
I just don't get it, man.

>>106461133
there is nothing to get.
he is a schizo nigger kike a disgusting filth

>>106461133
nobody gets schizos

>>106461131
Anyone reading it, that isn't a beneficiary of the subversion over the past 5 years, will immediately know it's true.

All of these shady dealings are literally in the news now. Like everything else that we're told is schizo ("safe and effective", etc), eventually the truth surfaces.

>>106461170
schizo post

>>106461131
>>106461133
>>106461139
>>106461142
DIRECTLY over mother fucking target.
Lol

>>106461175
schizo post

>>106459799
Let's see...

Move semantics are useful in huge low-level software with many interacting subsystems. In smaller programs they are unnecessary. In high-level programs a GC is more ergonomic.
Pointer arithmetic was useful up until the 90s, you had no registers to spare for the index. Nowadays it's outdated, yes. But runtime bounds checks suck too, you can propagate ownership information through the type system so why can't you propagate vector bounds?
Type safety is good but monomorphization isn't, no wonder your program is 100M of bloated crap when you pasted 100 qsorts in it. I'm sure there's a middle way somewhere that doesn't involve boxing everything.
cargo is the carbon copy of a shitty model (npm) and must be killed with fire, Kerninghan is right on this one. A large standard library is better than a million little fiefdoms where any asshole down the 500 dependency chain can break your code. (+ it can't be audited, packaged, ...)

Also, OP is a faggot for mentioning FP. FP's only useful invention is tagged unions with better syntax, and even that took ages to catch on because FP people only speak in academic gibberish.

>>106461186
wrong
dumb retard

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>>106459799
>https://lngnmn2.github.io/articles/kernigan-and-rust/
>In short, the simplistic “C model” is totally broken, so all its assumptions are no longer valid, and all the clever hacks, like imperative looping and indexing, the char and string “abstractions” are flawed and, indeed, unsafe. It is that simple.

>muh unsafe
yeah i know
that literal who is repeating shit ive heard before

whats the qrd?
i aint gonna read all this brainvomit

>the next paragraph
>The list is by no means exhaustive, but even these alone are the major, fundamental advances from C or C++ or any other Algol-style memory-location based imperative languages. This is what Kernigan missed out and is ignorant of.

ah
so the autismo trash wrote an infomercial
big fucking deal
buy an ad, crabs

>>106461233
>whats the qrd?
Cut your dick off, vote blue, join bluesky to denounce maintainers, and rewrite everything memory safe with an MIT license so 3 megacorps can just snag it without attribution.

>>106461251
ah
so the same as before

tha absolute fucking state of crabs/fptrannies

also i noticed the publishing date:
2 sep.

op is seething from the discussions we had recently and so he wrote an article nobody is gonna read

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>>106459799
>what happened when an old man was given a scooter
compiler is a chokepoint. at that position it can analyze the things that are given to the computer. intent is likely to be filtering of those permitted to generate executables. licensed, vetted developers only. no white people allowed. something like that. but increasing abstraction is a distraction. purpose is automation. do that.

>>106461279
>dumb retard doesn't read the title
>makes the absolutely astounding discovery that the article is about kernighan's comment on Rust

>>106461296
>your though leader said x therefore you should...
no
i dont have thought leaders, reddit

now when are you going back?

>>106461311
are you a markov chain?

>>106461318
>quick, digression
i accept your concession, autistic trash

>>106461063
>i'm /g/eet-tarded and didn't even know genderists prefer "singular they/their" and hate the "binary" his/her when the "gender" of the other person is not specified
>what?!
>TRANNIES! TRANNIES! TRANNIES!

>>106461364
dumb retard

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>>106461368
>t. seething
>mfw

get bent, crab
you lost
and even if you didnt create that PR disaster your language is still trash for interns, browns and autists

>>106461382
dumb retard

>>106461392
>if i repeat that 3 more times ill finally become a wxman
seethe harder lamao

>>106461399
dumb retard

>>106461186
>GC is more ergonomic.
>Pointer arithmetic.. outdated,
>But runtime bounds checks suck
this can't get more retarded, right?
>you can propagate ownership information through the type system so why can't you propagate vector bounds?
holy fuck
>let's do virtual calls in sorting algorithms to save binary size
wow
>the C guy was making an argument for big standard library
i don't know how /g/eets do it. i couldn't have come up with half of these retardations even if i really tried.

>>106461406
>flame
>get btfod
>impotent rage ensues
ah such is the power of rust

remain btfod lamao

>>106461426
>the dumb retard is the lamao guy
now it all makes sense
https://desuarchive.org/g/search/text/lamao/

>>106461433
yeah
and now imagine getting btfod by me

id go back to bluesky if i were you

>Kernigan
Now THAT triggers my autism.

>>106461368
the funniest part is, /g/eets never know why you're calling them dumb. they just soldier on in typical jeet fashion lol

>>106459799
this guy has a mental illness, the article is FP gibberish

>>106461444
>group cope therapy
i know why hes calling me dumb.
thats because i fucked up the fulcrum of his whole argument:
that i should care about what kernighan says

its telling about how you think yourselves
in fact- you dont
you just repeat what your "thought leaders" say and assume everyone is a drone like you

how pathetic
and then youre jealous of me
but just as you will never be a woman
you will never be a man either

Itt

A transsexual that made an NGO funded replacement language a core part of his queer identity. He spends his days getting downvoted on hacker news and being called a gay retard on /g/.

Seek Christ.

>>106461471
maybe its masochistic tendencies?
in any case i dont mind
i like calling people gay retards so we could have a synergy there

maybe we should meet irl
hes maso, im sadistic
we could become good friends

>>106461471
>i'm expert on online trannies
as if being a /g/eet wasn't sad enough

>>106461517
>as if being a /g/eet wasn't sad enough
youre posting on g, right?

how retarded are you, exactly?
im just curious
just how fucktarded you actually are

>>106459799
>No way to program in a high-level way, in terms of abstract data types and abstract control flow
Nigger. You do that shit... on paper.

Paper supports infinitely more abstract ideas than any programming language does but when I put them in a fucking computer, they are concrete, not abstract.

>oncluded that the only way to properly support abstraction is through a systematic and consistent design of the language semantics

Incredibly fucking vague and unqualified. Do you think hardware semantics are not consistent? Do you think ISAs are not researched and designed?

>The most important principle is that one has to think, model and program at the same higher level of abstraction as the concepts of the problem domain, and not in terms of the conceptually irrelevant underlying implementation details and machine representations.
Wrong. Let's see you try to write an optimized Miller-Rabin based prime generator from high level abstractions alone. No SIMD, No Division tricks for you.

>Ideally, there must be a one-to-one mapping between the concepts of the problem domain and the data abstractions defined in terms of a programming language semantics.
And Ideally, Unicorns should be real and I should be a trillionaire and the ruler of the universe. All possible implementations of something cannot be a one to one mapping (and why the fuck should it "ideally" be one to one? What's wrong with "many to one" in an ideal world moron? Should every problem be solvable in one way exactly? Is that a desirable trait to you?) with only higher level abstractions because all possible solutions include lower level, context optimized solutions. Some of them, even C cannot provide.

The rest of the arguments are somewhat bearable but the premise is a glaring fucking hole in the first place.

t. small time ISA designer Computer Arch. guy

>>106461559
>No SIMD, No Division tricks for you.
>inb4 the compiler will do it for me
>compilers doing SIMD/Vectorization or understanding runtime simplifications well
lolmaokek

>>106461517
I honestly don't want to bully you, but everything, in every domain, that people like you touch turns to absolute shit, so people need to push back against leftist useful idiots, iconoclastic transsexual subversion, and interlopers wherever they rear up.

It's not 1984 inspired 2020-2024 anymore. We can call you out in public now that everyone has come to their senses. I'm just passing through and noticed you being gay about gay things.

Good luck with your hobby, or whatever this is.

>>106459799
>Any process can be “swapped out” between any two imperative instructions (by the kernel) and god knows what will happen before it resumes, so all the in imperative code flows assumptions are broken – by the time the very next imperative command will be executed the data could be invalidated in many ways.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT SOMEONE KILL THIS RETARDED FUCKING CUNT!!!!

How the fuck can you be so confidently wrong about something?

Are you storing the data above your stack pointer in memory or illegally in some other process's memory? Or in library reserved memory? Or have issued authorization/request to the kernel in some form to write new data somewhere? Or does your language not support the calling convention and save the registers marked for destruction before making a syscall (cannot happen on a context switch).

If not, then why the fuck would this happen. Modern OSes don't willy nilly invalidate your memory unless the user wants them to or your program is fucking removed.

Is this simply ragebait for anyone who's not a complete nitwit?

>>106461584
>I honestly don't want to bully you
>random gibberish my /g/eet self thinks passes for westoid culture war talk
lmao

>>106461123
>Rust rewrites are the tech sector equivalent of "defund the police". Instead of replacing cops with social workers; they're replacing competent and independent tech sector with transexuals and political activists.
C was created to depopulate Russia and now you Russkies are shilling it like it's your own religion.

>>106461657
>so all the in imperative code flows assumptions are broken
Only this part here can make sense in context of only actual hardware execution as in things like OoO execution and branch prediction and other hardware facilities to aid performance break around a context switch (which doesn't affect the programming model itself at all, and affects all languages equally), but then again any cpu runs millions of instructions in a program(if there's no syscalls) before being switched out, so the performance impact on runtime is miniscule and those "code flow assumptions" still hold.

>An OS can move your data in memory at a whim, invalidating your addresses and any address arithmetic, but not the offsets, which are the proper notion of a reference within a more realistic and RAII-like restricted memory model.
GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

Unless an OS is designed to make all your programs to crash, it fucking can't. Virtual Adress Space to Logical Address Space to Physical Address Space translation exists for a reason and that's to give programs a consistent flat memory model.

Do you know that the entry points and load addresses of an executable are hard coded?

And do you fucking think that RAII is magic? This is the greatest load of horseshit I've ever seen.

No rust cannot magically save your program if the OS willy nilly decides to change the address space of your program and tampers with the execution state because "rust" isn't magically storing your program state in the collective conscious of humanity. If the program state is compromised, you're fucking done.

THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON HIGH LEVEL ABSTRACTIONS. You read that context switches happen in the actual low level execution and think that "this changes everything. My high level language is totally immune from this". No it's fucking not. It gets translated to lower level code which does still get interrupted and switched out.

>>106461771
>Do you know that the entry points and load addresses of an executable are hard coded?
>inb4 PIEs
True, but they're basically just Object files that have already been linked with symbols.

They still do get loaded with hardcoded symbols when they actually are loaded into memory for execution.

>As the direct consequences of the above, all structs with malloc‘ed addresses in them (not the proper “abstract” offsets) are fucked up in principle. It is when, not if potential but inevitable UB.

Just mental illness holy shit. I'm not even a C guy but thanks Cniles, you radicalized me against rustturds, atleast for a day until I hear sane, knowledgeable opinions from a rustacean again.

The rest is equally insane. I might leave this guy a mail out of pity in hopes he doesn't remain confidentally ignorant anymore.

>>106461771
>>An OS can move your data in memory at a whim, invalidating your addresses and any address arithmetic, but not the offsets, which are the proper notion of a reference within a more realistic and RAII-like restricted memory model.
This is an example of how C limits OS design. Mezzano has GC so it does that all the time, but it doesn't affect programs because they're written in Lisp. C wouldn't work because C has no way of knowing what is a pointer and it can't update addresses properly. C has to make it look like your OS only has one program in memory at a time by misusing paging. The fact that you're confused about this just means your own mind is also limited by C.

>>106459799
>*destroyed* C and explained Rust
Yeah... not going to bother with you retards. I'd rather use an esoteric analysis of my own excrement as basis for the design of a new programming language.

>>106461913
No. This is an example of something that doesn't happen. My whole point is that the no OS does that and if the OS tampers with the program state in an undefined manner, safety is impossible in any program or any language.

Mezzano's design decisions (and admittedly I'm not thoroughly familiar with them) are irrelevant here. Yes it can relocate program's memory but so can modern OSes, they just use address translation to achieve the same thing and in my honest opinion- address translation is a million times more general, faster and elegant than symbol translation or Garbage Collection. Further, pagewise allocation also has a fairly good resolution for optimizing memory transplantation, and furthermore, it's completely unnecessary on a system with address translation. The proof that it works is swapfiles. A similar implementation on any Lisp Machine or similar OS will both be irredeemably slow, a memory hog and a storage hog.

That said. I love lisp, way more than I like C. There is nothing wrong with abstraction either, but "abstraction or nothing" is a suicidal, ignorant mindset.

>>106462005
And yes I mean GC in this particular context of Process Memory Management.

Address translation cannot supplant GC generally.

aint reading none of that shit

>>106462005
>Further, pagewise allocation also has a fairly good resolution for optimizing memory transplantation, and furthermore, it's completely unnecessary on a system with address translation. The proof that it works is swapfiles.
Mezzano uses address translation too. All the programs share the virtual address space and the entire Mezzano partition is part of virtual memory, basically a swapfile.

>A similar implementation on any Lisp Machine or similar OS will both be irredeemably slow, a memory hog and a storage hog.
Lisp has a more efficient use of memory than a C-based OS because programs only have to allocate the exact memory they actually use. C programs have to overallocate memory when they only need a fraction of that memory for actually storing data.

>>106462085
LISP allocates memory for every parentheses though.

>>106462085
(nta)
>C programs have to overallocate memory when they only need a fraction of that memory for actually storing data.
where?

>>106462085
>have to
They have to. People seem to just want to deallocate one arena vs dynamic free's

>>106462120
*don't have to

>>106462120
>>106462129
is that all there is to it?
i was hoping for some gotcha about the stack

but is the lisptrany retard seriously talking about shitty memory management?
does he realize its not language related?
doe s he only know you can run programs entirely on the stack?

>>106462137
I'm not 100% what his gay crusade is all about. I'm fairly new to c, but "safety" is basically just a sprinkle of common sense and a run through valgrind.

Inventing am entire new language and programming paradigm to deal with NULL pointers and out of bounds index references is retarded and politically motivated.

>>106462085
For the first part, I can only say that, as I said earlier, I am not thoroughly familiar with Mezzano, only going with my prior experience with Lisp and other high level computers. But the way you describe it, it's not really different from what any modern OS does (correct me if I'm reading you wrong).

This seems one of the cases where higher language machines are capable of a paradigm shift entirely, with some pros and some cons, but instead choose to just build a layer of abstraction over the existing method. Memory management on lisp machines, even if ultimately slow, could (and in some machines, to some extent, was) have very powerful features like memory defragmentation and runtime memory access optimization(think what the compilers do today at compile time but adapted to runtime insights) that address translation does not provide at the cost of performance. In my opinion, kind of pointless, but it's still something that higher level abstractions permit with ease and thus more valuable than a slower layer of abstraction.

Regardless, I hope that you agree that the writer of that article is a certified fucking retard, because that's what I'm in this bait threat for.

>Lisp has a more efficient use of memory than a C-based OS because programs only have to allocate the exact memory they actually use. C programs have to overallocate memory when they only need a fraction of that memory for actually storing data.
First of all, no, theoretically the C/asm simple approach is significantly more efficient.

And secondly, they don't have to. The problem is glibc, which doesn't unmap memory after it has been deallocated so that it can make future allocations faster, last I tested glibc and glibc based programs.

That was a while ago too, so I'm not sure if the situation has changed. The general assembly level programming model with syscalls like mmap is very memory efficient.

>>106462137
That's completely irrelevant to the discussion.

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>>106462177
>is retarded and politically motivated.
i'd disagree with you on that
or rather id add some nuance to it

that type of languages have their place when you consider the whole technological process-
many companies dont have the need for maximum performance, they have the need for correctness
for their usecase, whats rational is to have a childproofed language so they can reduce their costs by hiring less competent people

what is 100% political though, is the attempt to replace C even when that makes no sense
i mean, theres a couple dimensions to that.
not only lgbtrannies want to take over programming, full stop
which is the 100% political part

but also big corpo wants to phase out c because that would slightly level the plane bw giant behemoths like msft and smaller, agile teams- theres no shortage of people frustrated with the rigidity of rust or the complexity of the ecosystem
theres also the fact that cargo was designed to facilitate supply chain attacks. sca's which already happened, too.

i love C. i have ~300klocs of it under my belt.
but i wouldnt try to shove C where it doesnt belong
on x86-64 the usecase for using that language is whenever you're rolling out custom solutions and so other languages features would just be redundant
and one needs to be quite experienced to deal with c bc of the absence of guardrails, and the sometimes esoteric UB's
many ub's become apparent only when someone tries to port code which doesnt make things easier, how often one would do that?

but in cases where it is assumed that the user is experienced, and performance is key
theres nothing better than c
its not without reason that opencl and cuda are basically c, but with heterogenous/gpu specific inbuilts

>>106462296
tldr

>>106459799
I wouldn’t know. All my coding is done in ASM and machine.

>>106462319
Which ASM and what machine

>>106462218
>That's completely irrelevant to the discussion.
i was still leaving the door open for the other dweeb to have something actually valuable to say

i dont know everything, its always a possibility ive missed something
maybe function-call related? maybe some hidden infrastructure i never had to know about?
im not an osdev, nor do i write in asm (i know it enough to inspect compiler output but thats it)

>>106462296
Interesting perspective. Thank you.
>big corpo wants to phase out c
We talking primarily about GO and C#? Or is that still a Rust thing?

>>106462310
Fag

>>106462310
add zoomie
git gud at reading it takes me something like 15 secs to read that

>>106462296
schizo ramblings

>>106462329
He clearly does know things, but he misread what the discussion was all about, and tried shilling lisp (to a lisp enjoyer), that's it.

>>106462218
>But the way you describe it, it's not really different from what any modern OS does (correct me if I'm reading you wrong).
Mezzano doesn't have files. It only has virtual memory and the entire partition is used for paging. The "file system" is just arrays and hash tables on the heap. To call a program, you just call the address of a function associated with it (usually through a symbol). It's like everything is on the heap all the time.

>This seems one of the cases where higher language machines are capable of a paradigm shift entirely, with some pros and some cons, but instead choose to just build a layer of abstraction over the existing method.
That's because Mezzano isn't a new machine, it's an OS designed for x86 and ARM so it has to support what those CPUs provide.

>Memory management on lisp machines, even if ultimately slow, could (and in some machines, to some extent, was) have very powerful features like memory defragmentation and runtime memory access optimization(think what the compilers do today at compile time but adapted to runtime insights) that address translation does not provide at the cost of performance. In my opinion, kind of pointless, but it's still something that higher level abstractions permit with ease and thus more valuable than a slower layer of abstraction.
This is right.

>First of all, no, theoretically the C/asm simple approach is significantly more efficient.
Lisp only needs the exact bytes you need, no overhead. All the other memory can be used by something else. C has a lot of overhead. If you have a 1 GB heap, that memory can't be used by another process even if only 1% of that heap is actually being used.

>>106462364
>Mezzano doesn't have files.
wrong
https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano/blob/master/doc/internals/file-system.md

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>>106462336
rust thing.
everything the lgbtetc folks push for is supported by big corpo
rust was pushed even by the white house for a moment

afaik go is *an* alternative but it doesnt have the tooling C has. and it lacks some features, like macros
and C# just doesnt have the capabilities of C. afaik. im not a pro in either language
theres also the complexity of the language which makes it so that its easier to create a compiler for custom hardware for C or a limited subset thereof than anything else

kek, imagine having the ambition to build a rust compiler for your company's hardware, something that is not supported by llvm, where one would have to build absolutely everything from scratch
in many places it doesnt make sense to replace C, also from a purely economical standpoint
so, obviously, the reasons for the replacement lie elsewhere

>>106462440
schizo post

>>106462451
>notice me senpai
i did. with your previous post
then i promptly ignored you

you can go away now

>>106462440
C is like open borders for your computer. Rust is like ICE deporting the illegal Russian and Indian hackers from your computer.

>>106462462
>should one replace c in os'es
yeas, no? idc. i dont have a dog in this race.
i use c for the infrastructure of my stats engine (ML + its database)

>>106462451
Is this a fucking regex bot or just a rust front hole haver hanging over the keyboard waiting for any reference to the language & gender dysphoria & tax payer funds misappropriation?

>>106462479
schizo post

>>106459905
Cisters?

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>>106462494

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>>106462498
wat?

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>>106462506
(you) bc funneh

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>>106462528
>pic

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>>106462462
With C you have to manage your own border. Rust is the pathologic AIDStroon fifth columnist chasing bugs while claiming to hunt them.

>>106462364
>Mezzano doesn't have files. It only has virtual memory and the entire partition is used for paging. The "file system" is just arrays and hash tables on the heap. To call a program, you just call the address of a function associated with it (usually through a symbol). It's like everything is on the heap all the time.
I see. I don't know much.

>That's because Mezzano isn't a new machine, it's an OS designed for x86 and ARM so it has to support what those CPUs provide.
Yeah that's not the point. Plenty of high level machines exist on moden cpus. Lisp machines didn't have massively different hardware either. They still ran over procedural Von Neumann model based computers.

>Lisp only needs the exact bytes you need, no overhead.
Yeah I don't think you're familiar with how lisp works. Unless you count the overhead to track variables as the "need" too, in which case this discussion is pointless.

>C has a lot of overhead. If you have a 1 GB heap, that memory can't be used by another process even if only 1% of that heap is actually being used.
That's under programmer control (as long as the library is compliant with common sense, or you can use system specific syscalls, which is not a pretty way to do things unless you wrap them in a OS independent wrapper function).

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>>106462602
>rust == sharing needles
its not a bug, its a feature kek

>>106459799
Thinking without relying on higher level abstractions and thinking about the underlying implementation on some level allows your code to be really fast though. C also has enough abstraction to make it somewhat easy, resulting in programs written in it to be really fast in general

>>106461131
It's true though. They were (with bigcorp money) starting to rewrite FOSS projects and pushed the original developers out if they didn't switch to Rust. Rust rewrites come with a CoC culture and their activist commissars. It's a takeover in the name of safety.

whoa cool political computer programming language bro

>>106459942
>americans
rent free

>>106462801
no, it's schizo delusions

>>106462874
You're a gay faggot and your language is pointless.

>>106462865
NTA but it's true.
No one actually cares about trannies or USAID or other US-centric shit but Americans. But whenever you come to any Rust threads they are full of nocoders talking about this shit. They are 99% americans.

>>106462897
and are the americans in the room with you now?

americans = dumb
europoors = smart
cniles = dumb
rustroons = smart

>>106462908
They probably wouldn't fit through my door frame.

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>>106462498
>>106462506

>>106461186
>But runtime bounds checks suck too, you can propagate ownership information through the type system so why can't you propagate vector bounds?
You can. Box<[T; N]> is a heap allocated array with statically known length. foo[n] will not emit a bounds check if n is statically known to be less than N and optimizations are turned on.

>Type safety is good but monomorphization isn't, no wonder your program is 100M of bloated crap when you pasted 100 qsorts in it. I'm sure there's a middle way somewhere that doesn't involve boxing everything.
You either generate different functions to handle different data types or use virtual methods. Adding pointless dereferences in a sort algorithm sound like killing performance.
You can afford a qsort monomorphization.

>cargo is the carbon copy of a shitty model (npm) and must be killed with fire
Pretty much all the biggest problems of npm like the left-pad drama is impossible in Cargo. Cargo has been designed to mitigate these issues.

>A large standard library is better than a million little fiefdoms
That's false. Increasing size of standard library only makes the language less usable in embedded context and it never managed to fit everyones usecase. Just look at C++, it has huge stdlib and many people avoid using it as much as they can because of how all round shitty it is. It's better to have minimal stdlib and allow users to pick and choose what they need.
Even something as important as lack of async runtime that people whine about. How do you imagine writing one runtime that will both work in extremely constrained embedded systems without heap and OS, and in modern desktops that can support multi threaded, task-stealing scheduler that elevates various OS features? There is a reason why no one uses C++ async in embedded but people love Rust's embassy for async. It's because Unix philosophy of small modular software is much much more flexible.

>>106461186
>>106463309
>any asshole down the 500 dependency chain can break your code
They can't because you pin library versions when you install dependencies.

>(+ it can't be audited, packaged, ...)
It's much easier to audit bunch of smaller dedicated libraries than to go through huge battery-included frameworks that reimplement same shit over and over again.

>>106463309
just call him a dumb retard next time

When will the jannies clean up shit flamewar threads like this one?

>>106462440
https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/oncd/briefing-room/2024/02/26/press-release-technical-report/
They archive the white house website and make a new one every time a new president takes office.
Did you not know that or are you pretending to be retarded? I am not even an American and I knew about this.

>>106461123
Truke

>>106463419
Never.
This is a near zero engagement board without fag brand warz. It would be as sticky as a web 1.0 personal bio page with people calling each other fags and schizos.

>>106463427
no, i just dont care
*nuances

also
it hasnt been reuploaded
this indicates the current admin doesnt hold the same opinions on muh safety

>>106461170
isnt shilling a memory unsafe language like C is more of a fed job than shilling rust?

only fed benefits from bugs in programs. explain your reasoning of why rust is "bad", other than "rust are le trannies".

feds are very good at mixing partial lies with partial truth to subvert the narratives. reframing the narrative as, "libs vs conserv" is an effective strategy, ignoring the feature of the language.

>>106463767
reddit spacing

>>106463767
>unsafe
Stop eating crayons.

C is freedom, which includes freedom to write sloppy code that dereferences unallocated memory. We don't need an overly restrictive baby sitter low level language to fix memory access issues; we need fewer women, browns, and politically distracted medical abominations writing code.

>>106463822
> stop eating crayons
meaning?
> C is freedom...
agreed, C is freedom to write any code that you want, even sloppy and good ones. That is both its upsides and downsides.
> we dont need overly an overly restrictive...
in an ideal world, yes. But in a world where devs are stressed and are not in top performance to write the best code at all time? doubt, humans get tired.
> we need fewer womens, browns...
I fail to see where this connects to. Isnt writing memory safe code a better thing for most? Is the statement meant to say "The software industry needs fewer women, browns and politically distracted medical abominations writing codes because they are mentally challenged, aka, dumb"? If so, then it is partially correct. I agree that software development should focus on the software development (obviously), rather than the politics. As for needing fewer women, browns, etc, it is a valid perspective to have, but I fail to see how it connects, we cant control humans, but we can write better software. I agree on the part where normies writing code is bad, as it is in every industry.

please explain more why rust is "bad", Im trying to see why it is bad.

>>106463822
dumb retard

>>106463972
dumb retard

>>106459799
ESL gibberish

>>106464124
see >>106460448

>>106459799
>CS celebrity
kek my guys salty

>>106463822
>C is freedom
>can't jump to a pointer without an extension
Nice freedumb, nerd.

>>106464517
thats a pointer to function you retard d&k

>>106463972
>please explain more why rust is "bad", Im trying to see why it is bad.
I honestly don't even care that much. I'm not a fan of anything being astro turfed by moneyed interests or political operatives, which Rust demonstrably is, but I'm just killing time on a lazy Tuesday.

If Rust were the answer, it wouldn't need to be jammed down everyone's throat, along with coc's, by the rainbow gang.

>>106464517
Your mom jumps on my cock.

>>106463704
>this indicates the current admin doesnt hold the same opinions on muh safety
Cope
https://media.defense.gov/2025/Jun/23/2003742198/-1/-1/0/CSI_MEMORY_SAFE_LANGUAGES_REDUCING_VULNERABILITIES_IN_MODERN_SOFTWARE_DEVELOPMENT.PDF

>>106464582
ah ok
rust still can go fuck itself

>>106464563
>>106464575
cniles btfo'd by FACTS and LOGIC
immediately degenerated into raging apes
rustlads would actually take the time to prove me wrong because they're intellectuals with superior genes

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>>106464582
cniggers BTFO
based trump

>>106464663
the fact is that you didnt know what a pointer to function is
drtr, prolly retard noises

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>This thread

>>106464684
im too busy shitposting on 4 keks to seek employment

>>106464668
I want to jump where I want like jmp not your lame and expensive function pointers
your are proudly wearing a bell lads branded chastity cage while thinking you are free
truly on point for a unix eunuch

>>106464663
>rustlads
Isn't their favorite e-celeb an apple hardware obsessed Mexican transexxual with multiple personalities?

>>106464701
>doesnt know about longjmp
yeah eyah yeah
we all know you crabs are illiterate
no need to keep repeating that

>>106464714
>want to change destination of longjmp at runtime
>can't
cool meme mr eunuch

>>106464694
Can you at least stop shitting up the board because you're bored anon? Did we really need one more language flamewar thread?

>>106464722
then you use an extension
>cuts off his dick, calls you an eunuch
yeah? illiterate confirmed

>>106464732
>flamewar thread is when people we flame respond
such is the vileness of the crab
you really are a bunch of slimy whores

>>106464741
>then you use an extension
not standard so it doesn't count
imagine being shat on by BASIC

>>106464765
>not standard so it doesn't count
says who?
>basic
can lick my balls.

>>106464780
says the committee
oh no no no no the sepple committee is tard wrangling your language huehuehuehue
such freedom wow

>>106464806
#notmycommittee

>>106464565
fair enough, I also agree that anything injected with politics is bad, it often undermines that very project. But them (feds) will try to inject anything with politics to shape their narrative, so one simply needs to navigate around it.
> If rust is the answer...
perfect language does not exists, as that the standard of what "perfect" is changes over time, but I think rust is close to one. And I do agree, if rust is the answer, it should not be jammed down everyone's throat. And the usage of C in most programs is obvious, its a "just works" language that is very pragmatic, plus everything is written in C, and if you spent years mastering it, it doesnt make much sense to change, just write better code. But again, for new projects written by new developer that still hasnt settled into any language, it seems better to use rust instead, and learn C for learning purposes.

and this is my personal view, I think the "tranny" pushing rust around is just sperging over it, as tech attracts autists/nerds, by the nature of the field. Some do, and indeed, try to inject politics, regardless of sides, but I think its not the majority.

>>106464806
>committee
Honestly they're a bit of a joke. Gang of pretentious fart sniffing autists that took 25 years to add a bool type. Most people use std=c99 or c11.

>>106465047
I feel like learning needs seg faults and memory leaks desu. I'm newer, but I learn best by breaking shit and putting it back together. If I had to over rely on the syntax and grammar to make me write better code, I'd feel cheated of the opportunity to even understand what safe meant.

I totally understand where an experienced dev would be frustrated with new guys coming in and taking a dump in the code base, and seeing a more restrictive language as a solution to that though.

>>106459799
>https://lngnmn2.github.io/articles/kernigan-and-rust/
I am a Rust user and I've never heard more incoherent niggerbabble in my life. I can't wait for the next good language so I can get away from these """people""".

>>106464606
sneed

>>106461186
>Also, OP is a faggot for mentioning FP. FP's only useful invention is tagged unions with better syntax, and even that took ages to catch on because FP people only speak in academic gibberish.

retard = you

>>106461913
>Mezzano has GC so it does that all the time, but it doesn't affect programs because they're written in Lisp. C wouldn't work because C has no way of knowing what is a pointer and it can't update addresses properly. C has to make it look like your OS only has one program in memory at a time by misusing paging. The fact that you're confused about this just means your own mind is also limited by C.

Based, holy fucking based.

Rustards thinking you need to do juggle around with pointers for "systems development" while Lisp operating systems have proved this wrong since the 1980s.

>>106463767
I consciously reframe things as "tranny vs chud" because I know I'm right and want to radicalize people :D

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>>106461743
>C was created to depopulate Russia
what the FUCK did he mean by that?

>>106459799
Meanwhile in reality the only person with a category theory background works on the c type checker lint

>>106468068
It's true as part of the NSA documents I wrote with my hands.

>>106468236
lol it's true. I don't know where this meme came from that c was a "hack" thrown together like php or javascript. It was a serious language designed and used a serious research institute for the implementation of the most successful operating system. Even windows NT whose designer famously hated unix chose to use c.

>>106461123
How did americans turn research and humanitarian outreaach into sport teams to cheer on like retards?

>>106461170
Then link them faggot

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I don't care how many trannies they send I am NOT rewriting it in Rust.