So, why are these still inhabited? Sounds like a huge limitation
>>106489690latency and the air force would complain if its coolguy job program were taken away
>>106489690Because they were built in like the 1990s and the military moves at a crawl.
>>106490103>>106490095COFFIN system retrofits when
>>106490095>cooljobNot an argument if we're talking national defense>>106490103>they were built in like the 1990sYes obviously didn't mean F22 in particular, but jet fighters in generalSo the only real argument seems to be latency? What do you mean by that, do you mean for radio control ? Couldn't they be somewhat autonomous to avoid having to send too much commands?
>>106489690why are you looking at third-world countries?
>>106490169>Couldn't they be somewhat autonomous to avoid having to send too much commands?planes are already fly-by-wire and like 90% automatic and just need the pilot to push a button to authorize a weapon launch, or take over if the software/hardware failUnmanned Combat Air Vehicles (UCAVs) were The Next Big Thing before shitty DJI quadrotors got cheaper (and ukraine "proved" that taping a grenade to one is viable) and mostly UCAVs dropped out of the public consciousness because they're not Current Media Cycle Thing. People are also are largely aware that the day of dogfighting is dead, much like how battleships are no longer relevant to warfare. demand is just not there anymorealso a plane being basically a truck that delivers missiles to standoff distance means that if you can automate the plane, you can just guide the missile itself better too. so you can just make the missile bigger or strap a booster to it or something instead of the making plane carrying it betterthere's also the issue of the Predator/Reaper drones just having a bad rap among the public because of Bush and Obama killing individual civilians with them a bunch and are seen as "dirty" weapons. warfare is still fundamentally a political maneuver so using stuff that's frowned upon even if it's only disliked for dumb reasons is still a bad move and can hurt your campaign. the A2A predator variant never came to be mostly for political/taste reasons.and it really is the air force just complaining because the fudds running it simply want certain things. the F22 almost didn't have a gun on it, because why the fuck does your stealthy high speed fighter-bomber that kills you with a standoff gliding bomblet dispenser or 120nm range a2a missiles need a 7.62mm gun on it? but the AF complained so it was put back. the same happened to some vietnam era jet, pilots complained about not having their emergency gun so the company first made a hardpoint gun pod and put a nose gun in later versions
>>106489690lets make the plane automated>what if it fails and someone has to take over?lets put guys near the plane who can take over then>what if they cant respond fast enoughfine we'll just put the guy in the plane
>>106490213>the same happened to some vietnam era jet, pilots complained about not having their emergency gun so the company first made a hardpoint gun pod and put a nose gun in later versionsutter bullshit.vulcan was only added after real horrendous air losses.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder#Conclusions
>>106490266>lets put guys near the plane who can take over thenthat's not possible anymore. jets are fly-by-wire now.https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/27/us/alaska-f-35-crash-accident-report-hnk-ml>At that point, the F-35’s sensors indicated it was on the ground and the jet’s computer systems transitioned to “automated ground-operation mode,” the report said.>This caused the fighter jet to become “uncontrollable” because it was “operat(ing) as though it was on the ground when flying,” forcing the pilot to eject."
>>106490276>The Air Force noted that most of their air-to-air losses were due to unseen attacks from the rear, and thus the problem could be addressed through additional technology that would provide early warning of such attacks.>The Navy concluded that the primary problem was that their pilots had not been given proper air combat maneuvering training,so basically the same "problem" as the early M16 where retards didn't realize they thought their new weapons were magic and didnt have to be aimed (or maintained or even cleaned)
>>106490213Thanks for the detailed reply but this:>a plane being basically a truck that delivers missiles to standoff distance means that if you can automate the plane, you can just guide the missile itself better too. so you can just make the missile bigger or strap a booster to it or something instead of the making plane carrying it better Aren't there other benefits to planes like stealth, or recon...?
>>106490299lol the f22 couldn't deal with rain, and now the f35 can't deal with it being cold outside. the american military truly is the best equipped in the world
>>106489690Sure is expensive to lose one or a squad of jets to a silly jamming signal. These current age fighter jets though might not have mechanical backups like all older aircraft did.>>106490132That must have been an early autopilot prototype system. I flew a C172 the other day that had an auto pilot system, granted it did not have throttle control but it could do everything else.
>>106490302wrong, usaf's falcon missiles were really shit. usaf had to switch to navy's missiles.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder#Problems>Once air-to-air combat began over North Vietnam, the Air Force was again found lacking. The mainstay missiles of the air war turned out to be the Navy-developed AIM-9 Sidewinder and AIM-7 Sparrow, not its own AIM-4 Falcon.[61]
>>106490311>Aren't there other benefits to planes like stealth, and why couldn't you just paint your missile with the stupid black rubber paint and give it gamer angles like you could a plane? you dont even have to worry about le ebin SIGINT or other counter-targeting because a lot of modern missiles feature gps guidance >or recon...?predator drones are already there and are literally built for this. people think the predator is the "bomb you from the sky by someone in florida" one but that's officially the reaper; predators only carry actual arms and not even much of it after very expensive modifications were done. stuff like giant AWACS planes already need human operators to interpret the data so you may as well just let them be on the plane, which itself is already basically just a cargo/passenger plane you bolted a radar to in the first place. and some companies are working on unmanned radar planes, it's just that radar is fucktrociously expensive and a lot of air-to-ground radar is done by satellite, so they face the same sort of market pressure that killed the SR71 (why am i buying a whole plane for this and training a crew and analysts myself when I can just pay GeoEye 5.99 a month?)
>>106490331typical american "we did it wrong on purpose to prove we need worse technology". this is some "buses could never work, we need Uber Scheduled Rideshare instead" type shit
>>106489690Distraction, they want to keep their enemies and allies from switching to an all drone army as long as possible.So repeat after shill, they'd get jammed. Please ignore that tight beam communication is unjammable.
>>106490347Why they don't just use audio spectrom for transmission? The EW is already very solve
>>106490266>>what if they cant respond fast enoughfast enoughYou can use 100x more drones than manned planes, so you simply don't have to care.
>>106490103the real reason is this. there's plenty of unmanned aircraft ready to buy by a military, but militaries hate spending money without taking 90 years to decide what to buy at a 8000% markup first the F22 is still the "most advanced" military aircraft out there and it was first flown in fucking 1997
>>106490363Just use microwave tight beam comms with mechanically aimed antennas with 100+dB attenuation for anything it's not aimed at.
>>106490372a non-upgraded f-22 from 1997 would get utterly fucked by modern ew
>>106490368you can re-use a plane more than 100x
>>106490368>muh drone swarmis there even a use case for this? it's always in every military magazine but where would you ever do it?>ww-what if i want to kill everyone in a platoon at once ???I bomb it with a hypersonic cruise missile and level the whole area>ww-what if they are in a protected structure or eco system ???I bomb it with a hypersonic cruise missile and bill the eco-fine to the line for base trash disposal>ww-what if theres civilians ???I bomb it with a hypersonic cruise missile and posthumously declare them combatants>ww-what if the target isnt as expensive as a hypersonic cruise missile ???I bomb it with a hypersonic cruise missile and create several jobs to make a new one>ww-what if your out of hypersonic cruise missiles ???I will claim that there is oil or communism nearby so the americans bomb it with a hypersonic cruise missile on my behalf
>>106490376That's not how attenuation works
>>106490302>>106490331phantom niggers were hamstrung by shitty roe forcing pilots to get within visual range to target id thus getting them out turned by more agile migs constantly and as a cherry on top if they could get a firing solution on the migs their sparrows would fuck off to anywhere but the migs ass because they were shit
>>106490379so would an f22 from today. thats the point of modern ew.
>>106490402>you can re-use a plane more than 100xNot every drone is a quadcopter suicide drone.
>>106490416cute bnuy. airplanes were truly always built for sex
>>106490403>it's always in every military magazine but where would you ever do it?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Scout>During the 1982 Lebanon War, the Israelis were confronted by Syrian surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), which were heavily sited in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley. All 28 SAM sites in the Bekaa were destroyed, however, partly through the use of Samson decoys to get them to reveal their presence, and partly through reconnaissance information obtained by the Mastiff and Scout UAVs.>Israeli battlefield UAVs had proven a great success, and soon came to the attention of the US military, particularly after the American intervention in Lebanon in 1983. This led to the US Navy's request for a battlefield UAV in 1984, and Tadiran and IAI decided, or were told to, join forces to submit a proposal for the American requirement. The result was an IAI division named "Mazlat" (the Hebrew acronym for Miniature UAV), now "Malat" (Hebrew acronym of UAV).
to embrace pilots' vore fantasies. next question
>>106490434so nothing that couldnt have been solved by multiple hypersonic cruise missiles (or guided artillery)
>>106490428
>>106490434>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Scoutthats not really what normies are talking about when they say "drone swarm"
>>106490446that makes zero sense.sams won't turn on for no reason. your cruise missiles have no target.artillery doesn't have the range to shoot from israel at targets in the bekaa valley .
>>106490448god the phantom looks so fucking stupid
>>106490169>Autonomous, long range nuke/bomb robotWhat could possibly go wrong?
>>106489690watch Perun:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-0L5Wv86fQ
>>106490484nothing? it's working without issue since 1985.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand
>>106490474SEAD is a concept as old as RADAR and sending one or two drone plane per target just to get signal intelligence off it doesnt really constitute a "swarm" in the same way military-oriented techbros use the term "drone swarm" to express using hundreds of drones to saturate one target so it can't meaningfully retaliate against all of them. it's still effectively>ww-what if you dont know where the target is???I bomb it with a subsonic cruise missile, miss, cease merely pretending to be retarded and review the telemetry to see where it got radar warnings from, and then I bomb it with with a hypersonic cruise missile
>>106490428>The idea came about as an inside joke for the KC-135 tanker crews, especially the boom operators who had trouble putting the boom into the receptacle so Capt. Vizcarra painted Pussy Galore right on the nose so that her ”Strategic Part” was right over the receptacle! She was named after the female executive pilot to the evil Goldfinger in the James Bond film of the same name.
>>106490410Smaller wavelength allows different approaches than standard antenna design.Just go to the extreme of laser comms for a moment, put a receiver in a black tube and light sources diffracting around the black top of the tube will be 100s of dB attenuated relative to a visible source.The same works for microwaves, just use a cantenna with the top of the can painted in microwave absorber. Terrible for efficiency, great for directivity.
>>106490524>if I shine my laser pointer at a white target on a black sheet, that means no one can ever see it if I point it at anything else and that white dot on my black sheet can't possibly be illuminated by red light from any other source!!!
>>106490524ok but if find out you're fucking screaming on exactly 2.4ghz and i choose to scream even louder you may be drowned out.
>>106490508think further.a drone is just a missile. missile saturation attacks are also ancient. they work.
>>106490531In a clear sky, if you aim a tube receiver at a satellite or relay drone for laser comms, the only medium to reflect off to jam the signal is clear sky.The sky is not a very good reflector.
>>106490535The point of tight beam comms is that the drone has a receiver mechanically aimed at a relay or satellite.Anything off direction has extreme attenuation and in general it's not possible to put the jammer in line with the direction of the receiver.
>>106490556the main reason the drone swarm concept is a total meme is exactly that: if it's a saturation attack relying on not everything making it through and you're already accepting lots of losses, you may as well just give up and use missiles in the first place. its just a false economy, even if you're all "but we can reuse the survivors!" you're still losing payload capacity to stuff to keep the drone airworthy and able to carry stuff, just cut all that shit out and make it a one-way trip in the first place
>>106490562>>106490580it's harder but not impossible, especially if you need less of a laser and more of a cone because you have a "swarm" of objects to control. if your drones are "looking" south for control, I just have to set up a little further south than you and there will at least be interference. it's also not the only way to defeat a drone, I can just blast it with a shotgun (or my own drones)
>>106490587Also insistence on using shitty DJI quadcopters. really a "drone swarm" is just "deploy more of X than the other guy can handle", the dumb part is using chinky quadrotors for it when there are better vehicles for most jobs. No one complains about fixed-wing drones but those aren't cute enough to be a "swarm" rather than a "formation"
>>106489690>huge limitationwhat are drug cartels going to do?
>>106490611>Also insistence on using shitty DJI quadcoptersno one is using those anymore
>>106490587Missiles are limited in how small they can go. If they are propeller driven with large wings, they are no longer missiles, they are drones.
>>106490649there's no such limit.wanting at least 250 lbs warheads has nothing to do with the propulsion.
>>106490648muh ukraine drone war>>106490649retarded take, a missile is just an airborne munition
>>106489690Because planes are obsolete tech, just like tanks
>>106489690The US air force can't trust human pilots to not hit friendly targets, so I doubt they place any trust in AI yet.
>>106489690If you made the F-22 a ucav it would immediately go rogue and start hunting enemy air forces and probably the three gorges dam too. It's been blue balled for so long
>>106490743what over mobile airborne weapons platform is there besides planes?
>>106490797henloclopters
>>106490736>retarded take, a missile is just an airborne munitionThese are not missiles.>>106490648
>>106490797DronesStill not as effective as the most dangerous airborne weaponGlowies on commercial flights
>>106489690>So, why are these still inhabited? Sounds like a huge limitationWhaaaattt?Put your Spanglish through chat gpt first, Juan
>>106490506>Turned off 99% of the time>Still needs manual approval even when it's onOkay retard.
>dunning kruger boardstick to pedophilia
>>106489690>inhabitedThe word is MANNED, Ranjeet
>>106492991budget cuts, pilots have to literally live in their plane now
>>106489690>So, why are these still inhabited?Prestige.
>>106490095>latency and the air force would complain if its coolguy job program were taken awayA 100 km distance incurs t=d/c or 100 km / 300000 km/s which is 0.3 ms. That is insignificant.As for "coolguy job" then yes, a pilot sitting in an airconditioned bunker safe from AA fire will be lacking in the crucial cool-factor. Woe is, well, someone.
>>106496023This, retards. Satellite internet is just as fast as fiber.
>>106490095>latencyWhy they do not just do it over Starlink ?
>>106489690nigger
>>106496095Flyboys would kill themselves on TV before using civilian equipment for crucial systems. the mindset is just bat crazy. For instance, the pilot has to line up the aircraft to fire since the machine cannon is normally fixed. Even 20 year old computer systems would be able to take control and automatically align the aircraft to shoot down the enemy aircraft. Problem is, that kill would be awarded to the computer so that is immediately no-go.
>>106490200>single jet engineThings like this make them less scary, China should build elite twin jet UAVs with advanced intellect that will use the cheap slop as meatshields and will kill you without a doubt.
>>106496521>twin jet memeyou do realize we can just build a single big engine now? we don't need to inefficiently use two small engines to get higher thrusts anymore.
>>106496579The second engine is for when the other one fails, ranjeet.
>>106496579I'll make this simple for you, because you are simple.If you have two motors, and something happens to one of them, you still have one motor to get back to base with.If you have one motor, and something happens to it, you have no more motors and your aircraft goes down.Did you think that passenger planes with more than one engine were just being silly and wasteful because they didn't just use a single big engine?
>>106496616Most passenger planes used to have 4 engines though
>>106496585>>106496616you just halved the rate of your fighter readiness, retards.a f/a-18 is already grounded when one of its engines is out of order. you have two engines, so double the chance.
>>106496632When one engine plane's engine fails it isn't just grounded, you're also a manlet in a wheelchair.
>>106496616>Did you think that passenger planes with more than one engine were just being silly and wasteful because they didn't just use a single big engine?obv.next you are going to find out that military crafts don't have two pilots in the cockpit at all times.
>>106490103>f-22 was built in the 1990swtfthis doesn't feel rightwhat the fuck do you mean 2000 was 26 years ago?
>>106496771i remember it like yesterday when we still had a department of defense
>>106496632If we say the chance of engine failure is 0.05, then:- chance of engine failure doubles (0.05 / 0.1) in two engine planes BUT- chance of system failure (all engines) is 20 times higher with single engine planes. (0.05 vs 0.0025)
>>106490169>Not an argument if we're talking national defenseyes it is. learn about the fighter mafia
>>106490335Global Hawk says hello
>>106490770https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_(film)So shit it was kino.
>>106490847The line is getting thinner and thinner every day. Drones are going faster and faster with better engines including turbines, while missiles are getting smarter and more maneuverable with better hardware. At this point they've basically already met in the middle.
>>106489690they go over why at least three times in the first act
>>106497321drones are reusable. missiles are not. simple as
>>106497641>what are suicide dronesRETARD
>>106496757modern craft have zero, even
>>106490342americans don't have busses because they bring niggers to your doorstep
>>106490372>the F22 is still the "most advanced" military aircraftthis is what americans actually believe
>>106497243I love that movie. I bought it on umd
>>106496632A plane with one engine is also grounded when its engine is out of order.The reason a f/a-18 is grounded when one engine is out of order is because if they fly it and the other engine goes out then you have zero engines and the plane goes down.A plane being grounded when not flying is infinitely preferable to a plane suddenly becoming grounded when it was mid-flight.
>>106497848>>106497243i remember loving this movie but not one single plot point about it. also being wrong about the plane from that being in HAWX
>>106489690Because there's a bunch of unidentified/alien shit up there they need a HUMAN'S EYES to verify and document for themselves. Then they gaslight the people into making them believe they didn't see anything at all.Go ahead. Try and find a reason that makes more sense. These planes can all fly and pilot themselves and they all have cameras, so why are they sending people up there into the sky? Why? Why are they still doing it? They have cameras, satellites, radar, all sorts. Why are they sending people up there? What are the people meant to be spotting? Aliens/UFOs/UAPs. That's why people are still sent up there. You can read the pilot's reports, they spot all sorts of shit they cannot explain and nobody can explain. All of it gets documented. They KNOW we are NOT ALONE.
>>106497912>ayy lmaoif they were trying to hide ayy lmaos then they would have killed every human pilot, civilian or military
>>106489690What do they eat?How do they go poop and pee pee?
>>106497906>He downloaded all the music illegally lol>Only plays one buttrock songWhy was Eddy such a normalfag
>>106490770true
>>106498185
>>106498191
>>106498174he only had military dudebros and one barracks bunny to hang around, please understand
>>106498195cringe. f22 chan irl shids and fards herself when it rains outside and doesnt know how to read a clock
>>106498203that flight suit was pretty hot tho.
>>106498219Boss...
