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Eric S. Raymond, who wrote the essay and book "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", says to delete your Code of Conduct.
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>>106712703
isn't that in of itself a code of conduct you stipped screw equivalent of a human being?
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>>106712724
nope
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>>106712703
He needs to be gassed by Palantir for his Anti-semetism. My Rabbi Codeofconductstein EULAberg Termsofserviceowitz will see to it.
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>>106712730
yes it is you dumb bitch
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>>106712745
One is an .MD sitting at the root of your repo that people use to play political games.
The other is a non-binding piece of advise sitting on twitter about how to manage your repo.
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>stay on CoC
>potential and merits don't mean shit if you catch someone on a bad day
>move to merit basis
>potential and merits still don't mean shit because of uncontrollable geopolitics
shit's ultimately meaningless
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>>106712703
Did the empathetic and tolerant left already deem this guy a white supremacist, fascist, racist, homophobe, transphobe, etc.?
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>>106712703
Thanks.
No, really.
Too seldom have we said "finally, someone said it," which meant that far too few probably said things that needed to be said, and here we are.

Saying I fully agree with ESR on this is but a formality, he's definitely not wrong.
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>>106712937
>Saying I fully agree with ESR on this is but a formality
Like I wouldn't immediately delete an existing CoC, but leave it to rot unupdated and then remove it at some point due to... irrelevance.
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>>106712740
He's Jewish, actually.
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>literal who
>"I invented open source btw"
no you didn't
fuck off
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>>106713170
he was famous around the year 2000 on slashdot. prob before you were born
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>kids don't know who ESR is
>use BSD/MIT license for everything
>every project has a CoC
open source is doomed
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>>106712703
it costs you nothing to be nice to disadvantaged folks
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https://github.com/domgetter/NCoC
the only good coc
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Open source can never achieve its' endgame of anarcho-capitalism
No one wants to pay $1000 for a meagre digital download
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>>106713262
it's over

>>106713170
kys
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>>106713626
but honestly
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>>106712703
If i ever have to implement a CoC it would be some extreme roll play about a fantasy world where everyone has to speak orkish.
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>>106712836
>Due To Their Association To Russia

why are they omitting that those Russians literally were working for Russian military programming drones?
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>>106712724
eric is a drooling retard trying to gain attention from the pedophiles of the alt-right so he can feel important and relevant. he has no idea what's going on. he just babbles on with bullshit and doesn't understand how much of a massive hypocrite is actually is.
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>>106714192
t. ranny
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>>106714192
Now that’s what I call cope. YWNBAW.
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>>106714102
haha woah take my upvote
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>>106712703
wat?
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>>106715001
He is consistent. Christianity is not traditional, it was imposed on our ancestors by force, and it is also universalist and globalist - every nation is Christian so there is nothing special or nationalist about it.
And it is controlled from the Vatican (foreign country)
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>>106714146
>those Russians literally were working for Russian military
when did a reason like that ever stop FOSS?
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>>106715045
>Catholic heretic
disgusting
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>>106715065
>>106715045
Reminder that the Catholic Church believes we should not convert Jews and Muslims
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That guy better learn to code yesterday because he's about to be cancelled. Say goodbye to your kernel contributions, chud.
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>pedo symbol profile pic
I wonder why he's against CoC
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>>106712703
chuds will literally write a whole ass essay instead of just renaming master to main
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>>106712703
BASED, the only thing that matters is contributions and skills, not politics. Psyop need not join.
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>>106715045
>Christianity is not traditional, it was imposed on our ancestors by force
Based truth teller.
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>>106712703
I'm not supporting Israel, don't care if other projects accept the looney stuff about man ladies. What's in print is clear and trying to create loopholes isn'tgoing to work.
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>>106715115
why should I do something for you when you're not willing to do things for me
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>>106714146
meds
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>>106715284
kimmel won you lost
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>>106715467
wrong post?
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>>106715554
My post was about git. Not sure which one you meant to click on.
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>>106712703
the people who demand "code of conducts" will commit terrorisms against you if you refuse to comply with their demands
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>>106712703
COC exists as a suicide prevention hotline for faggots.
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>>106713119
>>106713119
is Linus a jew too?
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>>106712703
Based autist seeing through the bullshit.
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>>106712876
per the recommendation of the ADL and SPLC he's been added to the no fly list as well
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>>106713626
https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html
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>>106713425
It costs productivity.
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>>106715001
He's a 90's tier autistic nerd, such things were en vogue back then.
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How hard is it to sign “we won’t tolerate hate” agreement anyways? Is he dumb?
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>>106715867
Trannies and the rest of the Coc brigade's conduct is hateful.
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>>106712836
>sanctions = cancel culture
Retard
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>>106715001
based

>>106715045
not wrong, but what I wish more people would realize that most of what we associate with christianity in europe is really european and not fundamentally christian.
Things like cathedrals, how bishops and monks dess, basically everything aesthetically about christmas or easter etc.

Christianity has been the dominant religion in europe for long that it may be hard to separate some aspects.
But denouncing Christianity doesn't have to mean throwing away all the parts of european culture that is supposedly intertwined with it.
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>>106715800
This is gigacringe but since it's only for themselves, it doesn't matter at all.
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>>106715967
You are definitely right, although are you sure that the way bishops dress is European? And also catholics dress completely differently than orthodox priests.
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>>106715867
the only thing you accomplish by signing the "we won't tolerate hate" agreement is having moral crusaders at your doorstep for the stupidest of reasons.
They see it as an open invitation to bully you into submission. After all, you already agreed to one of their monoric requests once before.
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>>106715990
>catholics dress completely differently than orthodox priests.
That's exactly my point.
they dress like that not because Christianity has a certain aesthetic, but because they just dress like that.
And pagan religious leaders wouldn't have looked much different if those regions hadn't adopted Christianity.
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>>106712703
ESR's only recent (as in this millennium) technical contribution has been, and feel free to correct me because i'm writing from memory:
>we're going to rewrite ntpd
>i don't know how to search for crates. rust is not ready/good
>we're going to do it in go
>ends up trimming OG ntpd down, modernizing it, and running analyzers on the C code, because that ought to be enough
>declares success
>a bunch of CVEs get discovered over the next few years
/g/ tards are in good company, is the moral of the story i guess
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>>106715867
If you agree to one thing the sharks smell blood in the water and will not relent until you agree to everything they demand (they never stop demanding things)
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>>106715867
It is harder than to not sign it, that's for sure
(captcha: KSG0Y)
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>>106715045
i love the implication that the modern nation state is both perennial, and its identity wasn't "imposed".
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>>106714146
Why lie? Linux is a US project and they sanctioned Russia. It's that simple.
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>>106716445
>Linux is a US project
pretty sure linus is from finland
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>>106715867
"Hate" turns into a cudgel to use against behavior you don't like. Also it's an emotion evolution gave us because it's advantageous.
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>>106716468
Linus Torvalds is a US citizen and lives in America. The Linux Foundation is a US non-profit. The Linux kernel for all intents and purposes is American.
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>>106712703
is this a real tweet from the real eric s raymond? I knew he was based but I didn't know he was this based.
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>>106716706
yes it's real
https://xcancel.com/esrtweet/status/1971768345188844003
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>>106713425
It's the people who use "being nice" as a way of controlling opposition to their agendas.
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>>106712703
why are you faggots such snowflakes and crybabies?

also, >>106712724 is right. ESR literally adds his own CoC in that post:
>If you are more annoying to work with than your contributions justify, you'll be ejected.
ironically, this iwould be vague enough to be manipulated by anyone... which is something that he criticizes right after.
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>>106715944
>>106716445
You are retarded. The sanctions dont apply to contributions received in open source projects. Linus also said that he hates russians in the same mailing list (as a justification), so he is a xenophobe which is against the CoC.
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>>106712724
The death camps are coming for you commmunist troons! You will work for your bread and our enjoyment, or your biological components will work to feed us fertilizing our fields! You traitors made FOSS look weak and faggy, chasing away real talent for years. Not anymore. If we find out a nationstate (other than America) is at fault for funding and supporting your insertion into our spaces, we will destroy and genocide that nationstate in this century (China, India, you are my biggest subversive suspects).

Your smug mug is about to be shattered!

>>106717189
Why are you such an ESL indian? He preposes a requirement for a gayCoC before stating that one line. Are you mad about your H1B cancellation, indian?
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>>106717200
>The sanctions dont apply to contributions received in open source projects.
They do.

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Compliance-Requirements
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>>106713170
He has made contributions to several widely-used Unix programs actually. I think he maintained sendmail for a long ass time, maybe he still does?
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>>106716118
>KSG0Y
I am using -ecker to post here over Tor, which prevents modification of the post when the CAPTCHA is displayed. You wouldn't know it if I didn't tell you, all I'd need to do to falsely signal I am not posting through -ecker is do what you do: post a random 5 character string at the bottom. You won't know if that was my actual captcha, you'll just believe that I must not be -eckerposting (but I am)...

CAPTCHA: BEN15
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>>106712703
I think everyone with half a brain saw that coming the moment the first "CoC"s were being introduced.
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>>106717200
What are you going to do about it, invade finland? :^)
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>>106712703
He's probably getting cancelled and unemployed for this. It's racist to not fall in line with codes of conduct, and probably transphobic too.
I don't agree with it but that's how it is.
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>>106717427
Nobody uses sendmail in 2025. Only exchange ever mattered anyway and the big cloud companies run Exchange-as-a-Service as the only way to send email, with a tithe to Microsoft.
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>>106716706
how is whinging about COC on the internet's bathroom wall "based"?
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>>106712703
Well no shit, no real collaboration can happen when one party intends on having some sort of rulebook to be used to nit-pick social behavior.
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>>106718214
projects are killed by douchebags, and the COC police are just one type. the only thing that's new about this is whose feelings are getting hurt.
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>>106712703
I'm generally indifferent to CoCs. Points (2) and (3) are correct, though. Writing a CoC that is resilient to bad faith actors is extremely difficult, if not impossible. All that said, I am not convinced that CoCs, in practice, have caused more problems than they've headed off in general. Everyone who screeches about CoCs seems to most just be upset that their freedom to disrespect others is being restricted and that is not really something I care overmuch about protecting with regards to voluntary participation.
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>>106718257
COCs start from a place of bad faith because it assume contributors need rules on speech and behavior when people being fags should be an outlier scenario in the first place.
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>>106718260
Yeah do you have have a CoC for your friends too? Have you considered as a project owner you don't need to have printed rules to decide who is a faggot?
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>>106717389
>t.bot
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>>106718272
they start from a place of reality, newfriend.
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>>106718292
The reality that people hate faggots and I don't have to work on any project they work on? Guess you missed that memo.
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>>106718297
pretty much exactly, yes. COCs are used by people who've been around the block and want a project to survive douchebags.
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>>106717189
>>106712724
You'd know this if you had a job, but in order to sign contracts with certain organizations, especially those affiliated with governments, you are in fact required to have a "code of conduct" of some kind or another.
What that CoC contains is usually not specified and you can get away with something like the sqlite "holy CoC"
https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html
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>>106718333
COCs are made by fags, you missed that part. If you need a COC to ban someone you're not only a faggot and a retard, but a pussy.
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>>106718343
Whenever money is involved you absolutely have to have things in writing. This is not the same as your faggy github project.
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>>106718283
I imagine most people have some set of qualities they desire in friends, and most people will cease a friendship if the friend stops acting like their idea of a friend. Regardless, friendship is a different mode of social interaction than a project and setting expectations about what is tolerated and what isn't up front allows people like you to know at the outset whether your attitude is welcome or not. The issue at hand is whether the cost of that up front statement of expectations is more harmful to the goals of the project (and the people working on that project) than not doing so. And, too, whether the alternatives (e.g. a BDFL structure) are viable or an option for whatever group of people doing the project.
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>>106718363
If you need printed rules to figure out who is a bad contributor you've been dropped on your head as a baby.
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>>106718362
I don't know why you're complaining about something completely orthogonal to the conversation
This is about CoCs in high profile open source projects, not your delusions of grandeur.
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>>106718372
Your reading comprehension suggests you need rules to figure out who is a bad contributor.
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>>106718373
Because I've seen in practice that CoCs are just a way to remove good contributors based on shoestringed reasoning and much like this conversation, only acts as a source of drama and debate when we all know you can just ban people who are bad contributors without a CoC.
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>>106718379
I'll just like not contribute to your project. Go ahead and do a CoC, it just signals the project is run by a retard looking for social drama and not only do YOU lack reading comprehension but you also lack basic social understanding. Not only were you dropped on your head, but your mom took Tylenol
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>>106718386
You're injecting arguments that I'm not making and ESR is not making.
He's saying that you shouldn't have a CoC.

He further argues that if you are required to have a CoC because [money], then make it stupidly simple.
The argument in question is whether or not it should be simple or complicated, or a joke as in sqlite's case.

As always, there's nothing stopping you from being a dictator and removing contributors on arbitrary bases, and there's nothing stopping you from installing a bureaucratic nightmare designed to insulate yourself from your own lack of decisions.
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>>106718427
No this is a classic case of leftists moving the goalposts when they know their core position is retarded and the core premise of this thread isn't about high profile organizations have CoCs, but rather CoCs as a concept. Do we really need to start talking about "open source" for profit repos with CoCs? Really want to talk about the ethics of exploiting voluntary labor because you can't even talk about high profile Cocks without addressing that bullshit.
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>>106718457
You seem to agree with ESR in principle. So do I. You don't need to have a reason to eject someone. You also can't complain if someone decides to start shit because they think their ejection was unjustified.

We both know that CoCs are a retarded concept only designed to masturbate bad actors who don't even follow said CoC.
Nobody is going to pretend that a council of open source jannies are going to treat every case with the same amount of seriousness as the actual courts.

And if you are not going to take them seriously as a concept, then why not one line or sqlite?
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>>106713425
>it costs you nothing to be nice to disadvantaged folks
incels?
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>We should have a working OS that lets me do stuff I want to
>"YOU FUCKING NAZI!"
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>>106716051
He did write a reasonably-good tool for migrating from SVN/CVS/hg to git, basically a front-end to create fast import scripts. The features are nice, but it doesn't scale to extremely large monorepositories so I had to write my own in the end.
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>>106717189
He adds his own CoC only for areas where you would be forced by bureaucracy to have some sort of a CoC. He's saying you shouldn't have one, and if you're forced to have one, turn yourself into a benevolent dictator. Also, if your coworkers start turning into busybodies trying to get their co-workers fired for stupid shit they say online, then those busybodies are more annoying than their contributions justify.
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>>106712703
nice yap session unc not sure why you're posting on 4chan at this age
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>>106718508
>And if you are not going to take them seriously as a concept, then why not one line or sqlite?
Because give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Even a made up CoC is giving them an inch of frame where if you really don't want to play their game you just let it be a trap to instantly ban anyone who brings it up, which is significantly more effective and feels good as a project manager. If your project has no CoC, you can safely ban anyone who mentions or suggests one because those people were never going to be positive no-drama contributors.
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>>106719244
If your project has that specific CoC you can also ban anyone who starts drama. A rule against being annoying is a rule against drama.
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>>106712703
>As the person who discovered and wrote down the rules of open-source

Uhm what? Bruce Perens wrote the Debian Free Software Guidelines which were later copied pretty much 1:1 for the open-source definition. Which was also done by Bruce Perens.
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>>106712703
this what every (normal) person thinks, but some are afraid to say
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>>106713626
>one text file (the rest os boilerplate)
>5 contributors
>10 issues open
heh
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>>106717189
>IF YOU'RE STUCK WITH HAVING ONE FOR BUREAUCRATIC REASONS
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>>106715045
TRVKE
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>>106712703
not sure if erasing but id say you can simplify things and have someone overlooking the process on how the CoC is followed/enforced.
on the other hand he is kinda right, dont be annoying or overly retarded, you deserved to get booted for both.
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>>106718048
Tons of people use sendmail, jeet. You keep your poo-colored fingers off this board you hear?
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>>106713626
And use this license
https://plusnigger.org/
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>>106721433
People yes, companies no.
>running your own email infra to begin with
>running neetware for a core business need
It's all about Active Directory my guy. Nobody is going to administer sendmail when NT won in like 2002.
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>>106721582
fucking lmao
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>>106715087
Holy based.
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>>106721649
You're retarded, Windows in Enterprise has been declining for 15+ years. I can't believe they let shit-eating jeets on the Internet in 2025, gotta get Trump to put a stop to your bullshit.

Sendmail is still the #1 used MTA, by far.
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>>106712703
A known child predator telling people CoC are bad is kind of funny
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>>106712703
The people who make and write CoCs are classic stakeholder bullshit
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>>106719860
One of the issues is "this repo has no code of conduct".
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There's only 1 good COC(K)
https://nocodeofconduct.com/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md

Sqlite's cock is good too, close second
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CoC's are literally hostile legalese designed to make projects impossible to fork, nullify the GPL and place unaccountable trannies from Microsoft HR in charge of your project.
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>>106714093
>We simply do not care.
Umm....this is highly problematic.



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