>>106722297
The community alone is a reason to ignore it.

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>>106722297
Catastrophically insecure. Simply not fit for purpose

>>106722582
I choose to believe this is true.

>>106722582
no source
also its not much higher than c++ and c. honestly that isnt much of an argument

>>106722297
the MIT/BSD-fication of software(which includes rust) is an angenda by the jews to makes you work for them for free, do not be a cuck and stick with gpl 3 or even agpl 3 software until we completely eradicate them.

>>106722829
AGPL3+NIGGER

>>106722948
kek, that one is fine too

>>106722797
>hurdur c++, a language so old and established, is barely below rust, a language so new and untested
this is the typical rustranny

>>106722797
Previous thread mentioned this Xitter post
> https://x.com/kai_fall/status/1966158913478566093
Dunno if this dude is the actual source tho. Maybe it's in the replies somewhere.

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>>106722297
>What cant you do with rust that you can do with c or c++?

Doing experimentation with algorithms and data structures might be way worse in Rust.


I haven't vetted the following example, first search result:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00778-025-00945-5
>Published: 25 September 2025
By the way, they wrote it in C++.
https://github.com/adriangbrandon/cltj
>CompactLTJ is a C++ library that provides an implementation of the Compact Leapfrog Triejoin (CLTJ) algorithm.

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https://materialize.com/blog/rust-concurrency-bug-unbounded-channels/
https://media.defense.gov/2022/Nov/10/2003112742/-1/-1/0/CSI_SOFTWARE_MEMORY_SAFETY.PDF
https://bpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.gatech.edu/dist/a/2878/files/2022/10/OSSI-Final-Report-3.pdf
https://archive.ph/uLiWX
https://archive.ph/rESxe
https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/6/1292
https://github.com/microsoft/typescript-go/discussions/411#discussioncomment-12464988
https://lwn.net/Articles/1030517/
https://github.com/lcnr/solver-woes/issues

A lot of people saw C++ and saw garbage. I did. Rust types did. We seemed to agreed for a while.
Until Rust came out, and I realized that Rust users liked the parts I hated about C++

>>106722297
There isn't one *best* language for a particular usecase. People's ways of thinking and working are very different so they will prefer different styles of programming languages. Personally, I am a straight man so I vastly prefer writing C++ over rust.

>>106722582
This picture is false, but Rust software really is buggy. Not insecure, there is no CVEs for Rust yet. But buggy, crashy and very often freezes in deadlocks for no reason
For example Firefox's tab widget freezes so often it is not even funny.

>>106722297
> What cant you do with rust that you can do with c or c++?
a doubly linked list

>>106725120
Why do you lie?

>>106724982
>Rust users liked the parts I hated about C++
Which parts?

>>106725089
>For example Firefox's tab widget freezes so often it is not even funny.
neither does that happen if you're not a retard with some broken or conflicting extensions, nor is that part of firefox implemented in rust.

>>106722297
https://loglog.games/blog/leaving-rust-gamedev/

>>106722297
Rust is not safe >>106722582

You should use a performant GC language like Go for everything unless it has to be insanely performant. Like if you're building basic infra for Cloudflare or Google.

>>106722297
>CF Workers
So it's going to run on WASM. What is the point of using a low productivity tool like rust that makes a big fuzz about memory management on a stack VM that doesn't even have multithreading?

>90%+ jeets itt

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I saw this on another board. What IS Rust?

>>106722297
>the entire internet seems to switch. And it does sound good.
That's called a psyop, anon. They make it sound like it's popular and unequivocably better to get you to use it
Then again you're probably a paid shill too

>>106725344
>Google
Ironic they develop Go but acknowledge Rust is for whats important

>>106725089
>there is no CVEs for Rust yet.
This is a blatant lie.

>>106725133
NTA, but it sure is not as simple in Rust as in C and C++. >>106723434

>>106725643
>Python is for children

Interesting

>>106725089
>no cves for rust yet
rust shills just make shit up ALL DAY!
https://www.cve.org/CVERecord/SearchResults?query=rust
you will NEVER be a real language.

anything with the goal of "being a replacement / successor" in it's mission statement is garbage trash and always bad for the end user. see: wayland, systemd

rust goes to show how we can't have nice things
that goes both from the people trying to weave rust into somehow being culture war rated, and from rust devs being incapable of not turning something with a good idea and premise into "EVERYTHING has to run on it and use 1000 dependencies to do so!!!!!"

>>106722297
I've always found it silly that Rust was specifically designed to force the programmer to make "safe" code, yet it also has the unsafe keyword.

>>106727212
The idea is if you really need to use unsafe code, you'll know exactly where to find it if you run into bugs related to memory management.

>>106727429
Insane how you can't do that in C
>ctrl-f free(

>>106722297
Wgpu makes it more useful than C by default.

>>106722297
rust is pretty interesting and fairly decent
unfortunately, the rust community is, ah, a bit too online

>>106722297
Just use Python, unless performance is critical, in which case use C. Or, if you need to run in browser, then you HAVE to use JavaScript. Everything else goes in the trash

>>106722582
>Catastrophically insecure.
Are you talking about the community or the language?

>>106727626
thats the point why i was asking. Every problem people seem to have is with the community, or how they program. Not the language itself. Does that mean you can use the language in a meaningful way and its just trannies tainting it?

>>106727889
It's a Turing complete, performant systems language. Of course you can use it for anything you want, it compiles into a perfectly fine executable
That said, the syntax is fugly, the build and dependency system is godawful and bloated, and the safetyjerk is a pain in the ass to work with. Add the community's faggotry on top, and it's no surprise people don't even want to try to learn it

>>106722297
Rust community really hates GPL.
That's the reddest flaggiest red flag.

>>106727889
The Rust communities can be cleaned up, we just need to make our own projects, gatekeep our communities and network together to build and ensure they don't infiltrate. Then we can use members from our own communities for espionage and excise them from the projects worth saving. It's really as simple as banning people who start talking about their sexuality.

>>106722582
Rust is safer than C, but that's about it. In every other respect it's a fucking headache. If technical people made decisions, rust would only be used in very specific and targeted scenarios where it is really needed. But we have dumb middle managers (women and trannies) making decisions, so we will end up rewriting entire operating systems in le meme language just because everyone is talking about it on reddit.

>>106727673
Fuck Python and fuck you.

>>106727889
have you tried just writign higheir iq code

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>>106722297
I am using rust and it is great, a general rule of thumb is always do the opposite of what /g/ says and use rust. All the hate against rust is a smearing campaign perpetuated by seething cniles and nocoders because rust lives rent free in their heads.

>>106725643
Rust is the language of trannies. If you didn't know, many furries and trannies are extremely online and have tight knit communities and plan to take over the internet through various means so they can also convert your kids to their degeneracy when they first take to the internet unsupervised. Needless to say most of them are also communists who favor censorship, deplatforming, canceling, etc.

>>106727429
That's fucking nonsense. Rust has always been marketed as the "safe" language, "safe" meaning you CAN'T write code with vulnerabilities. If the point of "safety" is just to find the location of bugs more easily AFTER they've already been exploited and publicized then it's not only a total lie, it's also redundant because we've had debuggers and memory tracing programs for decades. Finding the line of code where the bug exists after the fact is a complete non-issue

>>106728030
Historically, if you really went all in on doing the opposite of the general /g/ hiveopinion then you could have become the richest person on the planet. (Bitcoin, NVIDIA, NFTs)

>>106728030
I use Rust too but the Rust communities are afflicted with AIDS. I just keep to myself and only talk about Rust here because anywhere else I'll have to "respect" pronouns and pretend some ugly, fat white guy is a girl.

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>>106727722
lol.

>>106728068
It's actually to find the bugs more easily before you ship the software out. After, you know, extensive testing and all that.

>>106722297
Rust is a genuinely very good language, and it should rightfully replace both C and C++. Most of the people who complain about it being "restrictive" didnt understand the code they were writing in the first place and why it was unsound. I really don't run into things like this and i write rust all day every day, including self-referential data structures.

That being said, the use cases of 95% of people would be better served by something like Go, and the community and management behind rust is infested by troons and corpos and might just gradually go down the toilet.

>>106727986
based

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>>106722345
>The community alone is a reason to ignore it.
<--- exactly

>>106728071
post code.

>>106728454
post code.

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>>106727722

> Are you talking about the community or the language?

Fucking kekw

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>>106730439
not him btw, but I write Rust too, and it legitimately a very good language.

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Me writing games in HolyC in TempleOS instead of rust and c++

>>106730637
i write rust myself. it's the other parts of their "stories" that is questionable, and i want to see code before writing longer responses.
>code
replace all .unwrap() calls with "?" and return an Option. let callers decide what to do.

>>106730833
people that say "just remove unwrap" are people that do not understand the concept of private APIs with private assumptions

>>106722297
> entire internet seems to switch
Why though?
Most of the code out there written in C has already been debugged, tested and is sound.
Rust is not easier to write than C.
I don’t need to learn a radically different language.

There’s zero proven incentives, and many proven disincentives (such as longer compile times).

You can use the c2rust transpiler, run it against the rust compiler, see any compiler warnings, fix them in C then delete the transpiled rust code and enjoy the speed of the million-line compile in C for the rest if eternity.

There’s never been any reason to do a one-way conversion to rust except in the heads of hyper-religious rust zealots.

>>106730887
back door sabotage to tear down western statues and traditions

>>106722297
you sound esl, so i will not take your post seriously
big, ugly, and difficult to read language with one real implementation and no spec which cripples the programmer to ensure memory safety
what can i do in pust that i can't do in C?

>>106730887
notice how Cniles never point out specific technological claims. it is always handwavey shit that you read on "best programming language to learn" blog posts or whatever shit
go ahead, prove me wrong:
- what do you think about Rust's traits? its associated type, imo, are great for representing concepts such as generic mathematical operations over a variety of statically-sized numerical types. also, associated constants are nice for representing things like minimum and maximum values.
- what do you think about the concept of breaking out your code into small, portable libs? I find it greatly decreases compile times and makes reasoning about and testing my projects far easier.
- what code formatter do you use in C?
- what testing utilities do you use in C?
- how do you handle parallelism in C?
- how do you handle serialization of data structures in C?

>>106722582
>implying any language only has <=7 vulnerabilities per MLOC
Crypto land shows that even after substantial code audits of a 1000 line codebase there can still hide vulns.

>>106730977
Aren't most crypto coders just too low skilled to get a real programming job?

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>>106731043
lmao
>>106730977
I have personally found several major issues witth Bouncy Castle, as well as countless weird little oddities
all due to my extensive test suite in Clojure

>>106730846
you can wrap that Option-returning function with an "assert!(!thing.is_empty())" and ".expect()".
unwraps are always useless. and your private assumptions themselves need to be modeled/layered right.
it may not matter with a minuscule code base or when "prototyping". but getting used to doing the right things, that don't even slow you down as in this case, will prove useful in the long run.

>>106731080
>assert!(!this.is_empty())
literally reperforming .unwrap()
>expect()
idgaf about writing some English message describing a problem that ought to be found in my testing
stack traces motherfucker, they give you line number information
if you cannot figure out what unwrap failed from that information, then you are not fit to be programming

>>106730887
>Most of the code out there written in C has already been debugged, tested and is sound.
wrong
>Rust is not easier to write than C.
wrong for anything that is not your retarded toy code.
>I don’t need to learn a radically different language.
you haven't learned any language. even if you think you learned one (unlikely), you didn't.
>There’s zero proven incentives, and many proven disincentives
wrong.
>(such as longer compile times).
wrong and meme.
>You can use the c2rust transpiler, run it against the rust compiler, see any compiler warnings, fix them in C then delete the transpiled rust code and enjoy the speed of the million-line compile in C for the rest if eternity.
not how any of these things works. i shouldn't have bothered with this reply considering how little you know. but i'm almost done anyway.
>There’s never been any reason to do a one-way conversion to rust except in the heads of hyper-religious rust zealots.
most rust projects are not "code conversions".
none of cloudflare's rust projects are "code conversions".
https://blog.cloudflare.com/20-percent-internet-upgrade/
---
hope that helps

>>106731103
>defined constraints and descriptive messages are bad.
>muh stack races
you're writing toys and being a retard about it. and that's okay.

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>>106731184
post code.

Rust is great and it has proven itself already. Just conceding it to troon is not a good outcome for chuds.

>>106731188
This is bad code. Each enum should be in a separate file.

>>106722297
>babbys first hype cycle

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>>106730894
Red crab guards, as foreseen in 1966.

>>106731200
lmfao
you are retarded
I'm done replying to you

>>106731188
Yuck

>>106727212
It's just as silly as C being specifically designed to force the programmer to not fuck up the stack, yet it also has inline asm.
Or how Ada is supposed to be provably correct, yet it has Unchecked_ functions.
Or how Java is supposed to be safe, yet it has sun.misc.Unsafe.

>>106731188
at least give Message::Start fields descriptive names (and better typing maybe since you know about unit structs). you know you can have named fields in enum variants, right?

>>106731275
>Or how Java is supposed to be safe, yet it has sun.misc.Unsafe.
Unsafe is way, way, way more common in Rust than Unsafe is in Java, Scala, Clojure and Kotlin combined, despite there being many, many, many more lines of code written in Java alone compared to Rust.

>>106731354
tbf that is very old code
I have an entirely new implementation based on a trie with support for locking of ranges of leaf nodes (such as portions of an array)

>you can wrap that Option-returning function with an "assert (!thing.is_empty())"
bruh

There are things like calling "lock()" on a mutex too which can only return a singular type of Error, so what, I'm going to write ".expect("the lock! she has been poisoned!") every time? For what dude? Who is that helping exactly?
Most people can tell that a case will be obvious from the previous 1-2 lines, we don't need everything spelled out in retard terms.

>>106731381
>Unsafe is way, way, way more common in Rust than Unsafe is in Java, Scala, Clojure and Kotlin combined,
Way, way, way more occurrences. actually, not just way more frequent.

>>106732214
>.
,

>>106731381
Every single time your Java program does literally anything non trivial it has to go through unsafe code. All of JVM runtime is implemented in an unsafe code as well

>>106732330
Yet there is way, way, way less unsafe Java code to prove correctness of than there is unsafe Rust code. Unsafe Rust is way, way, way more frequent than unsafe Java.

>>106722797
cpp's numbers are hyper-boosted by jeets working on chrome.
>>106727722
lmfao

>>106727889
it means it's a mid language not worthy of significant attention
>but muh x
every language has its own x.

>>106732228
Cool it with the antisemitism.

>>106727722
troonbros...

>>106731909
it's useful because there are two major meanings and many sub meanings for an unwrap, and the main reason "this should be impossible" is very different from the other main meaning "i'm okay with a panic here".
".expect()" is a very low over-head way to distinguish between the two (or whatever else) without slowing your prototyping, or whatever it is you're doing. you can use single words as a convention in your project for this if you must.
>Most people can tell...
most code is not <100 line toys written by /g/eet sophomores. and spelling things out, you will find, is a very good thing to get used to.

>>106733053
>talking about jeets while falling for a random xitter jeet who's literally retarded

>>106729501
jeets can use go?

>>106733088
What does that even mean? Is this many layers of irony or something?

>>106733243
|>
|3

>>106722582
Lmao how does C++ have more vulnerabilities than C?? But I love GO. Fuck rust.

>>106730637
This shit is so ugly to look at

>>106730637
this is the sort of gaslighting that I can't stand or understand with rust troons.

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>>106723484
>Maybe ousting NixOS' actual developer on the basis of rumor was a bad idea.

>>106722297
I feel so much better knowing the next DDoS attack will be memory-safe.

>>106722345
Community is cheap. Show me the code.

How are they going to maintain rust if most of the maintainers end up killing themselves?

>>106733124
I'd more readily believe you to be poo/g/eet than the creator of that image who you're so absolutely sure came from twitter. we all know this place is inundated with your kind

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>>106733163
It's garbage collected, of course. They struggle with manual cleanup.

>>106733554
Because it's a fake graph.

>>106733926
if you weren't a retard, you would have known that it's a jeet-tarded fake, irrespective of source.
so, you are either the jeet tard, or another jeet tard, or somehow even more retarded than jeet tards. i will leave it to you to choose one.
https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/106567188/#q106567314
https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/106402398/#q106404364

>>106727986
>Rust is safer than C
Unless you write unsafe Rust, in which case unsafe Rust is harder than C.
https://materialize.com/blog/rust-concurrency-bug-unbounded-channels/

>>106733507
>>106733243

my vibe coding agent says rust is good, so it's good

>>106734099
Merchant.

>>106734080
>no source on the image being made by a bharap native
hate to break it to you tranny, it's only a poo take in your schizo mind.
no wonder you're able to rationalize yourself and/or other troons as being women

>>106734168
You are?

>>106734305
since you're the retard in question. what kind of nigger are you?

>>106734694
>more false premise retardation
average reddit debater, lol.

>>106730637
if you had eyes yould kneow its extremely bad

>>106734707
why would you be this invested in proving the non-jeetness of a stranger, while ignoring your own tech illiteracy tardation no less, which should be the more pressing issue in your mind.
is it tard comradery, or tard insecurity?

>>106734731
nigger i'm not trying to prove anything, you are. imagine trying to live as a 100 iq midwit, lmao. no wonder you're on a dilation schedule now

>>106732354
Standard JRE is like 125MB. Not all of this is code, but it's still a lot more than rust stdlib which is less than 0.5MB.

>>106731909
>For what dude? Who is that helping exactly?
Another thread can leave mutex in poisoned state. You need to check this or you might end up with memory corruption.
Also, if some other thread of your program unexpectedly panicked, you probably want to tear down other threads as well instead of letting your half dead program sitting around unable to do anything but also not terminating.

>>106734739
>midwit
tard jeet detected

>>106734833
amazing deduction, redditor
you probably thing dilates -> woman too

>>106722297
Your shitty toy "systems" programming language can't event handle simple interrupts. It's embarrassing to call this piece of shit a programming language, a "systems" programming language no less.

>>106734852
I'm writing embedded in Rust and use interrupts extensively. It's the basis for async Rust in embedded after all.
What are you talking about?

>>106734988
how about you people stop lying and gaslighting and show as your abominable code.
also, to be more precise I was speaking about process interrupts, like unix signals, or windows events. nobody really gives a shit about your embedded toy pet projects.

>>106722582
This is a millionth time you are spamming this baseless shit.
Language itself doesn't make vulnerabilities, people do. You are just a retarded troll seeking for attention.

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>>106735026
>how about you people stop lying
But that's exactly how embassy works. https://docs.rs/embassy-executor/latest/embassy_executor/struct.InterruptExecutor.html
Why are (You) lying then?

>show as your abominable code.
What code do you want?
Recently I have been working on fixed point math library for my gaming console. >>106706715

>process interrupts, like unix signals, or windows events.
I don't use Windows. I used some random crate for handling Unix syntax and didn't had any issues with it. It just works.
Once again, I do not understand what are you talking about. Do you have anything to support your claims?

>nobody really gives a shit about your embedded toy pet projects.
You literally asked me to post code in that very same post. Why are you so emotional?

>>106735066
>Unix syntax
*Unix signals

>>106735026
>I was speaking about process interrupts, like unix signals
i literally implemented multi-process rust projects with (unix) signal handling. it doesn't get more complex than that where you need to "communicate kills" from master to slaves, or from slave to master to other slaves. and it really wasn't that hard.
you're clearly very under-skilled if that filtered you, like that other totally-not-jeet who spams these threads. or maybe you are the same person.
(i don't know anything about microjeet APIs)

>>106734762
True, but many Rust project pull in an extreme number of dependencies. >>106724775
>The size of the target/ also grows a lot: if I don't cargo clean FL2 for a couple weeks I'll probably have 200 GiB in there (dev builds have debug information and that takes a fair amount of space).

>>106734788
>Also, if some other thread of your program unexpectedly panicked, you probably want to tear down other threads as well instead of letting your half dead program sitting around unable to do anything but also not terminating.
That depends on the language variant of Rust used, namely whether panic is set to abort or to unwind in Cargo.toml, right?

>>106734852
>>106734988
>>106735026
>>106735066
Monologue.

>>106735066
>But that's exactly how embassy works. https://docs.rs/embassy-executor/latest/embassy_executor/struct.InterruptExecutor.html
>Why are (You) lying then?
Is that your representative example? Ridiculous amounts of glue code just to make a single work. Ridiculous amounts of hacks to bypass language limitations to make another language "feature" to work (async in this case). Unsafe abound. And that's not even addressing the issues I presented, so you already deflecting and arguing in bad faith, just like every troon using rust. Gaslight and lie, and keep telling it's by design and actually good that it's this way. Absolutely psychotic.

>I don't use Windows. I used some random crate for handling Unix syntax and didn't had any issues with it. It just works.
>Once again, I do not understand what are you talking about. Do you have anything to support your claims?
Again, same issue. "Just use this crate bro." I've seen your abominable crates. Spawning threads just to make async work. Fucking lol at your language.

>>106735096
Depends on what you consider extreme. I never had any target folder being anywhere close to GBs in size.
Also it's just stdlib and FFI wrappers that have significant amount of unsafe. Typical Rust crate has minimal to none percentage of unsafe LoC.

>>106735107
No, this depends on your program logic.
If you have a game that uses separate thread for music synthesis, you probably want to exit music thread when the main thread crashes.
But if you have a web server where you spawn thread for connection handling and that thread crashes, you probably want to continue operating regardless. Unless that thread poisoned some global mutex that is essential for everything to work. Then you probably want to exit all threads as well.

>>106722297
it's an okish language for beginners who lack the discipline and experience to keep track of the lifetime of the objects in their code, but for experiences programmers it's not worth the trouble

>>106735154
>Is that your representative example?
Embassy is representative of async executor in embedded Rust, yes.

>Ridiculous amounts of glue code just to make a single work. Ridiculous amounts of hacks to bypass language limitations to make another language "feature" to work (async in this case).
To archive similar functionality in C, you need to include RTOS. From my experience, FreeRTOS caused the size of my firmware to increase 20x. Not 20%, it went from 70k to 1.4MB.
Do yeah, RTOS is ridiculous amount of bloat. Async is strawweight class in comparison.

>arguing in bad faith
You have already accuses me of lying like twice, despite having no grounds for that. The only person discussing here in bad faith is you.

>just like every troon using rust. Gaslight and lie, and keep telling it's by design and actually good that it's this way. Absolutely psychotic.
Well, I could go on a tangent to show how painfully feminine your currently behavior is in this thread but I will pass on it.

Let's focus on technology and merit instead.

>Again, same issue. "Just use this crate bro."
It's not the same issue. You claimed:
>can't event handle simple interrupts.
Which is trivially proven wrong by the existence of crates that already do this.

Why are you trying to move the goal post? Let's focus on your initial claim. Do you have anything to prove that Rust can't handle simple interrupts?

>Spawning threads just to make async work.
What do you mean by threads?
I have no such thing on my MCU. I do have two CPU cores that I can set up though, but I don't need them for async to work.

>>106728068
Most of the code does require unsafe. Most of the unsafe code does trivial shit like polling a socket.

>>106735265
Only the FFI/syscall requires unsafe
Everything else does not require unsafe.
I'm sure your program does something more than just poll a socket and quit, right?

>>106735206
I disagree completely.
After using C++ for years, Rust was a godsent. It's such a drastic improvement I will never go back.
Also Rust is not a good language for beginners. It is a very difficult language that expects you to already have to understanding of systems programming. Even C++ is easier to pick up because you can use a very simple subset of it and just keep it simple. On the other hand, Rust quires you to write lifetime aware provably correct code from the start. It has very steep learning curve, rivaling functional programming languages.

>>106722345
I chose to ignore the community instead. I fucking despise the Rust community. But I still use it for small projects here and there (see my Github). I've recently decided to implement JVM in Rust, I'm still researching it though. Here's the repository:

https://github.com/Chubek/Patinova

I won't be submitting this to ANY Rust community. Mainly because they are so retarded, if you implement any program more complex than a web server, they will not understand "why" you did this.

Most of them are very young. They don't understand any theoretical frameworks behind Rust. They are under the impression that Rust invented AGDTs. lol.

>>106722345
If we were to judge it based on this thread. I think people who dislike Rust are orders of magnitude more obnoxious.

>>106735291
Most of Rust's standard library is based on unsafe hatches. Too many of them to count.

This reminds of the old "Rules for me, not for thee" moniker. Rust devs disrespect their users so much, they don't trust them with the unsafe hatch.

I only use Rust because of its AGDTs, and its strong reliance on type theory. But then again, I've studied several books on type theory.

>>106735307
what is difficult about rust? mostly, the complexity of rust comes from the borrow checker. it only makes sense to use rust if you consider that manual memory management is harder than dealing with the borrow checker. generally, that's only a problem for novices. if you are confident in your ability to keep track of the lifetime of objects yourself, then you can achieve the same in C++ with far less complexity.

Here's a nice book on type theory, if you guys wanna understand the semantics of Rust:

https://github.com/Chubek/chubek/blob/master/type-theory-intro.pdf

Rust is the only 'systems' language that has implemented type theory to a good extent. It's much faster than OCaml's optimizing compiler.

>>106735333
>Most of Rust's standard library is based on unsafe hatches. Too many of them to count.
This is true. And that's how it works for literally every programming language out there. No matter what guarantees your language provide, you are going to have to call potentially unsafe code eventually. Even C stdlib requires quite some inline ASM to work because not everything is expressible in C.

>This reminds of the old "Rules for me, not for thee" moniker. Rust devs disrespect their users so much,
non sequitur

>they don't trust them with the unsafe hatch.
They trust them in the same way they trust C programmers with inline asm or any language with whatever their syntax for FFI or asm is.

>>106735347
Rust's borrow-checker is poison for young programmers, but a delight to experienced programmers.

In C, I usually have to create my own fat pointers. Rust takes care of that for me.

But the young, inexperienced programmer does not understand what a fat pointer is, because it's been taken care of by the semantic analyzer for them.

That is why Rust should be no one's first language.

I dropped out of SWE, but they only taught us C and then Java. Retards who think SWE programs should switch to Rust are beyond hope.


Dough Hoyte calls languages like Rust "blobs" in "Let over Lambda". Rust is a big fucking blob.

>>106735061
>Language itself doesn't make vulnerabilities
language design facilitates bugs. for example, if C had used uints to represent string size instead of null terminators, it would have resulted in much safer practices across the board. same story with array types automatically demoting to pointers, or the compiler not even attempting to tell you when you have written UB even when it knows you have, etc

why is it the language whose entire mission statement is memory safety produce more vulnerabilities than C, the memory unsafe language?

>>106735363
Did somebody say "Trust"? Would you "Trust" this so-called "Trust"?

Ken Thompson has some 'reflections' on that:

https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/358198.358210?trk=public_post_comment-text

>>106735265
>does not require
shit
>>106735291
>I'm sure your program does something more than just poll a socket and quit, right?
I made a small framework that allows teh terrifying linked lists without any unsafe or reference counters. It's like 500 lines to do away with any use-cases of raw pointers.

>>106735347
>what is difficult about rust?
Its type system is more sophisticated and you are expected to adhere to all the safe-unsafe rules from start. Generic bounds and explicit lifetimes are much harder to understand for a newbie than basic templates. Macros are more advanced too. Pretty much every concept from C++ has either been generalized into something more complex or abandoned altogether because a better alternative exists. This forces you to write code in specific Rust way which isn't that easy to use and understand why is it even this way.

>if you are confident in your ability to keep track of the lifetime of objects yourself, then you can achieve the same in C++ with far less complexity.
If you are confident in your ability to keep track of the types of objects yourself, then you can archive the same with void* everywhere with far less complexity. But you wouldn't, would you?
There is a reason why safety critical systems use static analyzers, correctness proofs, etc. Being experienced doesn't meant you don't make mistakes. Being experienced is knowing how to set up your development environment so it catches tour mistakes for you.

>>106735307
>Rust quires you to write lifetime aware provably correct code from the start
that’s why it sucks because you don’t write programs correctly the first time. the iteration process necessarily involves failure and rust creates friction when you just want to shit out a prototype

>>106735426
Yup. Just like writing strongly typed code.

>>106735445
no, strong typing does not interfere with iteration like having to tardwrangle the borrow checker when you want to do something trivial does

>>106735405
>Did somebody say "Trust"?
You did. Here: >>106735333

>>106735460
It does in the same exact way.
That's why so many JS midwits seethe over TS supposedly interfering with their code.

>>106735482
having to put a type definition next to a fucking variable does not even come close to the level of architecture constraints you are put under automatically for using rust. hence it being a massive meme to ask a rust tranny to implement a doubly linked list

>>106735397
>just store 4 bytes infront of strings instead of 1 byte null terminator
ok retard

>>106735397
>or the compiler not even attempting to tell you when you have written UB even when it knows you have,
Such as? Any good compiler will print out a warning if it can detect UB. That is, unless the compiler itself handles that IN and turns it into compiler-defined behaviour, such as some GCC extensions

>>106735507
>having to put a type definition next to a fucking variable does not even come close to the level of architecture constraints you are put under automatically for using rust.
Yeah, it's much worse than that. Lifetimes only really matter when you use references and they are automatically deducted 99% of time
On the other hand, types are literally everywhere. Everything has a type and these types can get very complex really fast if you do not write your code with them in mind. That's why they had to add "any" escape hatch in Typescript because people couldn't really handle using types everywhere. It's even more prevalent than unsafe in Rust.
Strong typing really changes the way you write code.

>>106735541
>Any good compiler will print out a warning if it can detect UB.
Why wasn't heartbleed detected by a good C compiler then?

>>106722345
The community is on the majority straight white male, close to no pajeets unlike go.

The troons are only a very vocal minority.

Thing is straight white men generally just care about getting shit done so you mostly hear about the troons.

I've worked with 20 rust devs in the span of my career, not a single one of them were troons.


However half of the go devs i've worked with were jeets.

>>106724982
Based

>>106735541
as a quick example, gcc with -Wall -Wextra -pedantic gives me nothing when I compile something like

void test(int *p)
  *p = 123;
  if (p != NULL) {
    do_something;
  }
}[/spoiler]

>>106735575
Because heartbleed is a runtime exploit, it's knot known at compile time that you will try to access the array out of bounda
You said, I quote:
>even when it knows

>>106735561
>it's much worse than that.
you are utterly deranged if you actually believe that

>>106735645
There are valid use cases for a pointer to an explicit address, mostly in embedded. Agreed that assigning a literal to a pointer should be a warning though.

>>106730887
>Why though?
>Most of the code out there written in C has already been debugged, tested and is sound.
that's exactly why. the nsa want an entirely new toolchain that they can poz right from the start.

>>106735664
No, not really.

File: 1743719314750877.png (76 KB, 385x489)

76 KB PNG

>>106733892

>>106735645
>>106735696
You do realize it's not being assigned an address here, yes? Why should it be a warning? For what purpose would it need a warning?

>>106735746
should trigger cannot be null warning since you assign to it, regardless of the branch.

>>106735645
it's not the compiler's job to baby you. Use an static analyzer like Clang-Tidy or Sparse.

If you search "static analysis" on Google Scholar, millions of papers about static analysis comes up. Some static analyzers are extremely expensive.

>>106735773
>it's not the compiler's job to baby you
it objectively is.

>>106735645
good example as why pointers are fucking stupid as well. references won.

>>106735696
that’s not what im talking about. i meant to say p == NULL in the example. the point of the example is that the compiler will presuppose that because p is being dereferenced, it could not possibly be 0 and will therefore optimize away the if statement entirely.

another common example of this is

unsigned int a = some_value;
if (a + some_other_value > a) {
  …
}

it will optimize away this if as well if optimizations are on. it is smart enough to preform these optimization but refuses to inform you even with some pretty heavy warning flags set

>>106735773
>Use an static analyzer
no faggot, warnings exist for a reason. if im doing something obviously wrong and i am literally asking the compiler to tell me as many warnings as possible, it should fucking tell me. it’s already smart enough to know about the behavior because it can optimize it so the logic is already there

>>106735791
No, it won't.

>>106735830
meant to say < and fucked up my example again. yes it will, but i am too tired to continue this conversation

>>106735874
No, it won't. Even an unsigned int can be zero and a _Bool or array index will default to it. The only reason it could/would ever get rid of it is if some_other_value could not possibly ever be anything other than a positive integer in which case who cares.

>>106735583
>However half of the go devs i've worked with were jeets.
i'm so sorry you had to go through this life experience.
<virtual hugs>

>>106735908
bro, assuming everything is uint, a plus another value cannot possibly be less than a. the compiler is free to optimize that away because you are depending on UB to make the overflow check work. if the compiler sees the code enter a state of UB, all bets are off. compiler designers can be conservative about it and choose not to break your code but it is out of spec so they are still free to do so if they really want to

>>106735978
Sounds great, optimize it away. Again, who cares?

>>106725643
>Rust haters are making up fake images again
If you have to make something up to find something to hate about Rust, it means Rust is so good that even Rust haters can't find anything to hate about it.

>>106736012
you will when your overflow check magically stops working and causes you to waste a week of your entire life hunting down the bug because the compiler stealth yeeted your fucking safety check away because you wrote a + b < a instead of a <= UINT_MAX - b

Guys I wanna make a course on JewTube on making a real compiler, in a pragmatic manner.

All the courses I've seen are either too theoretical, or, if they maange to write code, they write some crappy 'Transpiler' (which is a word as unscientific as it can get, if you don't believe me, search Google Scholar to see how many papers use the term. Only shit papers). I wanna show everything, roll a custom backend and the such and so.

So I wanna make my course in a language that is popular, so people would watch it.

I don't wanna do it in C because writing a compiler in C is retarded. Yes, making interpreters in C makes sense, but not compilers.

I'm torn between OCaml, Rust and Python.

Thoughts?

>>106736089
For most people OCaml is a weird frog language Rust was initially written in.

>>106736089
I would pick Go for teaching almost anything programming related. The language is boring as fuck, has no fancy features, no oop bloat, no functional bs and doesn't facilitate type masturbation. Everything has to be simple and that makes following along easier. Writing a compiler in Go has to be one of the best programming books I've read in part because the Go code snippets are brain-dead easy to understand.

>>106736068
it's convoluted desu.
for instance, latest gcc with -O2 actually checks sign bit, probably because people complained, but to be fair, this is technically undefined, and gcc chose to accept that platforms like x86 use 2s complement.

int square(int num, int num2) {
    return (num + num2 < num);
}
/* 
square:
        mov     eax, esi
        shr     eax, 31
        ret
*/

for unsigned, it checks the overflow flag and returns the results

square:
        xor     eax, eax
        add     edi, esi
        setc    al
        ret

>>106736125
I'm currently making my Awk to C compiler in OCaml:

https://github.com/Chubek/Awk2C

There's a reason Rust was written in OCaml. It's the only ML-derived language that does not suck. There are two other ML-dervied languages around, F# which is microshaft shit, and SML --- which has several incompatible compilers. Most people use SML-NJ though. But there's more. PolyML, ML#, Moscow ML, and MLtoN. The latter is a compiler, and very solid, except it does shit for static analysis.

INRIA are the frogs who make Coq too. Solid tool for SWE. The reason I dropped out of SWE was that, they weren't going to teach us verification. I make fun of Pajeetistan's curriculum, but ours is no better. This is what I was going to study if I did not drop out at the second semester (I'd studied in a junior college for 3 semesters previously).

https://pastebin.com/DqxdrbPH

Crap, absolute crap. Why are they teaching SWE students about electrical circuits? Why are they ignoring functional programming? Why are they teaching about measurement? Why are they teaching so many physics? Why is linear algebra an elective?

Motherfuckers can't design a program for shit.

If people are weirded out by OCaml, I wonder how they'd react to Haskell. I'm trying so hard to learn Haskell, but I just can't. It's too difficult. Even for a person like me who has studied a lot of theory, and knows the difference between "typing a la Curry" and "typing a la Church".

Anyone here does Haskell?

>>106736125
weird frog language that isn't functional, has the same weird header obsession and doesn't have type classes, or really anything. It's a really weird ass language. Not sure why anyone would use it unless you're NIH tier enterprise like Jane St, et al.

>>106736219
rereading, I just realized it really doesn't do overflow check for the signed case. lel, sorry.

>>106736198
I concur. I might choose Golang. Especially because of this lecture by Rob Pike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxaD_trXwRE

I've read both of Thorston Ball's books, it's a good elementary introduction to compiler and interpreters. But it does not touch on 'deep shit'. It even glances over basic optimization techniques. Still, Ball's books are not only better than "Crafting an Interpreter" by Rob Nystron, also, they are heads and shoulders above these shitty books with titles like "How to Make Your Own Language". I have all of them saved in my hard disk under "garbage-book-<n>.pdf".

All of these "Write your own language" books suck, except the one by Nils M. Holm. That dude is a legend. His "Write Your Own Compiler" book is not written in a popular language, rather, bootstrapped into itself.

>>106736219
USE THE AT&T SYNTAX, PEASANT HOMOSEX.

>>106736219
ya, kek. based?

#include <stdlib.h>
#include <stdio.h>

int square(int num, int num2) {
    return (num + num2 < num);
}

int main(int argc, char** argv) {
  if (argc < 3) {
    return 1;
  }
  int x = atoi(argv[1]);
  int y = atoi(argv[2]);
  if (x + y < x) {
    return 1;
  }
  printf("%d + %d = %d (OF = %d)", x, y, x + y, x + y < x);
  return 0;
}

/* ./a.out 2147483640 2147483632
2147483640 + 2147483632 = -24 (OF = 0)
*/                                        

>>106736280
fuck off boomer bitch. Intel > AT&T

>>106736234
It does not have type classes yes, but making functors in OCaml is easier than making them in Haskell.

Also, what do you mean it is NOT functional? It might not be purely functional, but it's still functional.

The mutability in OCml and all the SML languages has been verified. They are still referentially transparent. A mutable variable in OCaml is the same as a product type, with one mutable field.

let foo = ref 0

(* same as *)

type _foo = { mutable field: int }
let foo = { field = 0 }

I have to admit, I don't know how mutable fields in OCaml are verified, but still, I am sure they are referentially transparent.

>>106736310
You call me boomer for preferring AT&T. Yet, Matt Godbolt who is as old as my father prefers Intel's syntax.

It just makes sense that the destination comes after the operand. Hell, even davepl said AT&T's syntax makes more sense.

>>106736280
>AT&T SYNTAX
The worst.

>>106736339
>It just makes sense that the destination comes after the operand
there's more to the problems than just that desu.

>>106736354
AT&T syntax makes more sense, because in English, verb comes before subject.

Intel's syntax is like "kill you i", AT&T's syntax is like "kill i you".

>>106736382
What other problems? Their array memory access makes much more sense as well.

mov 8(%rax, %rbx, 4), %rax

Beautiful. Intel's sucks. I still don't know what the deal with the whole DWORD PTR is.

>>106736419
useless symbol soup like % $, that "left to right" reading makes no sense for other basic operations like cmp and jump if less/greater It's just memey.
plus it's 2025... your addressing syntax is hacked on to support RIP based addressing.

>>106736493
What about splitting mnemnics into size-based ones? like movb, movw, etc. That's useful.

Do people rather watch some butcher English in a foreign accent, or watch an educational video narrated by AI TTS?

There's this channel, "YouTux Channel", which is narrated by TTS, but its got solid material. The prose is tight, and very clean. He actually did a video criticizing Rust just a few weeks ago, which is related to the topic of this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLXXZddWCJU

I've always wanted to make Youtube videos, but I was inhibited by my accent. My mother tongue is Persian so my phonology is limited to that of the language. I don't know when to aspirate th so I just use 'd' instead. Persian has only 5 phonemes (English as fucking 14 phonemes), so I pronounce "cunt" and "count" the same way. I pronounce 'w' as 'v'. So many other stuff.

But I can write solid English prose. Maybe a few grammar and semantic mistakes here and there. But who the fuck cares. In this day and age, if you don't make a mistake when you write, it's 99% likely that you're a bot.

Anyways lemme know if you'd prefer to watch PLT-related videos in pajeet-adjacent accent (I fucking despise pajeet accent, finding a lecture on Youtube narrated by a native speaker is like striking gold for me, don't get me wrong, I fucking hate Angloids and their colonialist asses, but they speak English better than pajeets) or AI TTS.

And finally, if you know a model on HuggingFace that does good TTS, lemme know.

Thanks and Heil Hitler.

too big focus on functional programming and chaining methods like crazy

>>106735168
>Also it's just stdlib and FFI wrappers that have significant amount of unsafe. Typical Rust crate has minimal to none percentage of unsafe LoC.
This is straight up manipulation and lies. Both libraries and projects in Rust often feature significant frequency of unsafe, often for increased performance. And even a single instance of unsafe in Rust can require the whole module it is in to require vetting.

>No, this depends on your program logic.
>If you have a game that uses separate thread for music synthesis, you probably want to exit music thread when the main thread crashes.
>But if you have a web server where you spawn thread for connection handling and that thread crashes, you probably want to continue operating regardless. Unless that thread poisoned some global mutex that is essential for everything to work. Then you probably want to exit all threads as well.
You don't even know the programming language that you are shilling for.
https://doc.rust-lang.org/cargo/reference/profiles.html#panic
>"unwind": Unwind the stack upon panic.
>"abort": Terminate the process upon panic.
So it does depend on the language variant of Rust used. One could then choose unwind and then emulate abortion for more granularity, I suppose, but it 100% does depend on the choice of language variant of Rust used.

>>106737170
The method chaining is an artifact of ML languages, specially OCaml, which the compiler was bootstrapepd in.

In OCaml, you can pipe functions, the way they are piped in Unix shell:

foo |> bar "fizz" |> baz 12

In Haskell, you could also compose functions:

let foo = (f . g) kkk in
kkk = "awesome and based"

This made its way into Rust as method chaining.

It does require a lot of headache with the dynamic dispatch vis-a-vis the vtable. But there's a reason GCCRust has been in development for ages. LDC (D's LLVM version) handles vtables much better than GDC (GCC's D) or even DMD (original Digital Mars D compiler). There is something about LLVM that makes dynamic dispatch and vtalbes easier. I don't know what that is.

>>106737155
>Persian has only 5 phonemes (English as fucking 14 phonemes)
english has like 40 phonemes. persian has more than 5, i am quite certain. Anyways, arabic accents usually sound nice, not like indian accents. And when have you ever seen an indian give a shit that his accent is disgusting and incomprehensible?

>>106737235
sounds wrong

>>106737306
Persian and Arabic are two entirely different languages my mang. One is an Indo-European, Iranic language, and the other is an Afro-Asiatic, Semitic language.

I personally find Arabic-English accent even more uglier than Indian-English accent. It's just too rough.

By 'phoneme' I meant 'vowel'. Persian only has 5 vowels. English has 14. For example, "Schwa" is a vowel in English, but not in Persian.

I pronounce "School" and "Esskool". I just can't fathom how the English "S" and "Z'" works. The "S" and "Z" sound in English is very different than any other language. You can understand this by giving someone who's bilingual a piece of paper, and asking them to speak a word or sentence with two many S's and Z's whilst holding the paper close to their lips. When a native English speaker pronounces S/Z, it's much more strong.

These are the things that bother me about speaking English. I can never do it perfectly, so why not use the machine.

>>106737454
The remark about dynamic dispatch? You can use compiler explorer to check how LLVM-based compilers handle vtables differently.

>>106730887
>Most of the code out there written in C has already been debugged, tested and is sound.
Every single time there's a major security bug or memory bug, it's because of C code.

>>106730894
>back door sabotage to tear down western statues and traditions
That's literally what C was. Almost every language before C had 1-based array indexing, to give one example. Now most people have never used any of those languages because C replaced everything. C came around to tear down western traditions.

This is the perfect course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDA8HzvI-w4

It's recorded probably by a TA during Covid. I find such videos to be a ruby amongst pe(a)rls.


Here's a lecture on automata from Ullman the Man. He wrote the very first book on automata alongside Hopcroft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6dbMNCCNKI&list=PLEAYkSg4uSQ33jY4raAXvUT7Bm_S_EGu0

He was in Bell Labs, I think? Also co-write the Dragon Book.

>>106737813
>Every single time there's a major security bug or memory bug, it's because of C code.

The only reason there has not been so many bugs caused by Rust is, that the 12yo infants that compose its fanbase don't write the type of programs that would matter if were buggy.

I posted Ken Thompson's speech at ACM Turing Award, "Reflections on Trusting Trust". This video explains it better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ7lOus1FzQ

TL;DR: no language can be magically correct. Rice's theorem and stuff. The only way you could make a 100% correct program is:

- Verify the hardware
- Verify the OS
- Verify the compiler toolchain
- Verify the application

Impossible. If you want to reply, watch the video, or read the paper.

>>106737942
Also, if you wish to know more about verification and model-checking, Huth&Ryan is your friend.

>>106735405
>Ken Thompson has some 'reflections' on that:
Ken Thompson actually admitted to putting a backdoor in the C compiler.

>>106735940
Thanks lol.
It is also the reason i quit my last job.

I got a job as a team lead, then on the first day meeting i realized 90% of the team were saars, i left 3 weeks later.

I knew i didn't like go, but i didn't know i'd dislike it too that extent and i needed a job, it was bad enough that i decided to leave anyway and wait for something better.

I'm now refusing to do any job that involve go.

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>>106737221
>Both libraries and projects in Rust often feature significant frequency of unsafe, often for increased performance
My current embedded project only directly uses unsafe twice, once to initialize PSRAM via calling a function in the ROM and once to assume_init on a zeroed [u8] box. Both trivially easy to prove for correctness.
Pic related is GPU driver author describing all the unsafe in his code.
So nah. Rust projects do not typically feature significant frequency of unsafe.

Once again, why are you claiming I am lying despite having no real arguments?

>You don't even know the programming language
Based on what?

>So it does depend on the language variant of Rust used.
That doesn't mean a game and a webserver won't have different strategies of dealing with threads crashing.

>>106737942
idgaf about Ken Thompson's bullshit or your academic bullshit. the fact of the matter is that it is FAR FUCKING EASIER to blow your feet off in C than in Rust. I swear to fucking God you retards are incapable of grasping that very few things on this planet deserve yes/no answers.
if you actually fucking programmed (which I doubt you actually do, because you faggots very rarely ever post code that actually does anything, unlike Rust programmers that regularly post code snippets), this shit would be extremely obvious to you.
but rather than opening an editor and actually trying to build something, you sit her whining and shit like a little bitch. I wish thread OPs could ban individual users from their threads so that faggots like you could be silenced.

>>106735664
this nigga has never heard of arenas
you genuinely should not be using lifetime annotations in 99% of your code. stop fighting the compiler and instead just produce better data models.

>>106738107
rust projects are composed of a mixture of three things:
- explicit `unsafe` usage
- high level constructs like rc that hurt performance
- deliberately working around the borrow checker in unsafe ways without the `unsafe` keyword (arena allocators etc)
rust programmers will frequently loudly brag about the latter, seemingly without realizing what they're doing. Most rust code in practice is the second one, because rust is much more difficult to write performant code in than C is, and most people don't want to bother.

>>106738211
arenas are not unsafe, for making a mistake is guaranteed to not produce a segfault (or undefined behavior) unless you explictly use unsafe to do accesses without bounds checking.

>>106738238
It is unsafe, it's just not `unsafe`. This is what I mean by "without realizing what they're doing".

>>106738245
no, it is not fucking unsafe. it is a logical error that results in a guaranteed panic (or the returning of an Option type that must be pattern matched). stop misusing terminology and learn your shit.

>>106738211
>rust projects are composed of a mixture of three things:
>- explicit `unsafe` usage
>- high level constructs like rc that hurt performance
>- deliberately working around the borrow checker in unsafe ways without the `unsafe` keyword (arena allocators etc)
>rust programmers will frequently loudly brag about the latter, seemingly without realizing what they're doing. Most rust code in practice is the second one, because rust is much more difficult to write performant code in than C is, and most people don't want to bother.
Not from my experience. In my experience, most of my code is just expression, straight logic. I never felt as if I had to go out of my way to do something without unsafe. After all, unsafe is mostly for things like FFI, low level apis, memory management etc. That's insignificant percentage of my application logic.
Do you have anything to support your claims?

>>106738015
Was the source code for Unix not fully available?

>>106738113
Well, perhaps because people like you call verification "Academic bullshit" that a compiler like Rust has to literally tie your hand akimbo and shove its cock into your throat, lest you write in its own way!

Relationship between a Rust programmer, and the Rust compiler, is that of an abusive relationship, wherein the compiler CONSTANTLY negs and gaslights the programmer to just keep going, because, if you go with another man, he will surely beat you. But if you go with me, I will never let anyone harm you... UNLESS YOU PLAY BY MY RULES, get it, Mildred? You are a worthless piece of shit, and I, the Rust compiler, know what is good for you!

The C compiler is also a dictator. It allows its stadnard library to use the unsafe hatch, but if you, the puny, retarded programmer wishes to use it, it will warn and nag, until you agree to not use it.

You don't need to be a logician to verify your programs. Just prototype it in something like Coq or Isabella/HOL.

>>106738260
consider the following code:

int *p = malloc(sizeof(int));
*p = 7;
free(p);
*p = 8;

is it unsafe? Now consider this code:

int *p = my_malloc(sizeof(int));
*p = 7;
my_free(p);
*p = 8;

is it unsafe? Think carefully.

>>106738407
I mean the Rust compiler is also a dictator. welp.

Also, there are millions of C compilers, but only 1/5 Rust compilers.

And that 0.5 is shared between toy compiler I've forgotten the name of, and GCCRust.

I hate that i have to write code in Rust if I need to get a job.

>>106722297
It's very very painful to work with pointers and the borrow checker is often suboptimal. But other than that it's not bad. I prefer it to C++ so long as I never have to touch a raw pointer or unsafe function which is pretty rare since most libs are still c/c++

>>106735061
C doesn't have vulnerabilities either, as long as you respect the standard.

>>106738431
libmalloc's `free(3)` is no-op on null. Is yours?

>>106738460
C has vulnerabilities in the standard.

Rust has EVCXR as a REPL. I'm looking for something similar for C. Any ideas?

EVCXR is fuck-slow, because Rust is generally slow-compiled language, having to go through hundreds of custom LLM passes.

>>106738502
Don't just say stuff. Bring evidence.

The C standard is created by people with several PhDs and years of experience in programming systems languages. Rust's```STANDARD``` is defined by a bunch of teenagers in the local Shake Shack.

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>>106738431

>>106738530
C functions like strlen, strcat, strcpy, etc. are standard-mandated vulnerabilities.

holy shit wtf is wrong with youtube these days


why is it so fucking slow. i can't even pause without it hanging for 3 secons

Is there something wrong with my hardware? Then why don't other heavy websites hang up like youtube

>>106734988
>I'm writing embedded in Rust
>build feedback-feedforward control loop for spacecraft control system on an MCU using rust
>the entire codebase is bloated from top to bottom
>latency due to bloat makes concurrent data stream handling nearly impossible
>spacecraft is trying to dock with ISS using automatic steering system powered by the OBC that you wrote code for
>it needs to line up with the hatch directly by thrusting between DoFs to maintain accurate trajectory
>thrust sensors get inaccurate positioning and applies too much throttle
>"lol what's edgecase handling? that sounds unsafe"
>panic followed by a system crash
>There is now a hole in the side of the ISS
>and now 4 astronauts are dead with an additional 16 in the ISS that need to be rescued
>anything else that is sent up there is also powered by computers that use your shitty code
Congratulations, fellow rustaceans. We did it!

>>106735330
People who dislike rust only bring it up when rust troons spam about rust (and trannies) everywhere they go.

>>106738945
you should write scifi bro
what an imagination

>>106739061
Let me know when your meme language allows a precise piece of equipment to function reliably without failure and then maybe i won't talk shit about it.

>>106738211
literally the same could be said about C++ (or C). that's what programming is. If you want "low level constructs" you'll need to use ASM. it's that simple, otherwise you're always going to deal with readability & optimizing compiler trade-offs.

>>106738945
what's funny about this post is that >>106735254 blows it the fuck out.
RTOS are objectively worse than anything in the Rust land. Anything that is just

entrypoint:
  loop
  do_stuff
  goto loop

can be done in literally anything as well.

>>106739093
let me know the inverse as well.

>>106739190
I'd like to see you write bare metal code on an MCU in Rust and show me how it stacks up with anything written in C. Also, closed control loops are a bit more complex when you're trying to control more than one sensor at a time. Concurrency is needed to know exactly what every sensor is doing so that other parts of your system can adjust accordingly so doing that without an RTOS is gonna be difficult especially when your language requires all the computational elbow grease in the world to make something function properly.

>>106739202
Everything that uses a computer uses C and Assembly for its firmware.

>>106739190
> goto

There are two PLT-related problems with Goto that are beyond "it le mekks your le code le non-modern".

1- Goto programs cannot be reasoned with. Verification of a Goto-full program is a headache. If you want your program to be like math, act like you're writing it on fucking paper. You cannot 'goto' on paper, can you? This is why Dijkstra hated BASIC. And he was right, look at all these boomer GenX'ers who don't understand the basics of coding and programming, just because they've been introduced for it via a language that literally has no flow-of-control.

2- Besides verification, Goto fucks up your CFG (Control-flow Graph). After SSA was discovered, and later, it was discovered that SSA, A-Normal Form, and Continuation-based Compilation are isomorphic, people realized that turning an imperative language into SSA is basically akin to making it referentially transparent! But, if you want to do SSA-based optimizations, you need "Natural Loops". That is, a loop that is made up of a header ,and a body, and the last basic block in the body has a 'back edge' to the header. When you use 'goto', you create "unnatural loops". Thus, CFG has to go through a lot of gymnastics to have it work, IF it works, that is. The way you construct SSA form is, you first insert the Phi-nodes, then version temporaries. With Goto, you can't easily do that.

Don't use goto. It's not about 'le style', it's about letting the compiler optimize properly.

>>106739299
ok. none of the things you ask for exist in the real world for those controlled devices either. also you're really not correct. As someone who actually dealt with hardware, a lot of stuff is controlled by bespoke bytecode/asm/whatever you want to call it, that don't have a C compiler.

>>106739299
I want to write an embedded ANS FORTH. I taught about using Rust. But then I saw how difficult it is to do Assembly in Rust. With GCC and Clang, I could just compile assembly files alongside C files. With Rust, you'd have to always do either inline Assembly, or fuck around with the linker.

Plus, Rust makes it hard to do anything bare metal. Also, the so-called 'memory safety' means shit if you wanna do bare-metal. Am I that retarded that I don't realize I've passed a null pointer to a function, or the I've use-after-free'd?

THE ONLY GOOD THING ABOUT RUST IS ITS FUNCTIONAL FEATURES.

I've heard only young, self-taught programmers fair well with Rust. is that true?

>>106739358
post code

>>106739282
>I'd like to see you write bare metal code on an MCU in Rust and show me how it stacks up with anything written in C
why do you keep regurgitating the same ask as if it's different or more nuanced? another poster already blew you the fuck out and unlike your shitty solutions, it's less bloated, has a proper build system and package manager.

fuck off. what the fuck is wrong with you zealots?

>>106739376
wdym. if you wanna see my projects its in my namefield.

>>106738975
Why does the majority of threads about Rust are made by people who don't write nor like Rust then?

>>106738945
Actually, Rust async is generally faster and has less latency than RTOS.
https://tweedegolf.nl/en/blog/65/async-rust-vs-rtos-showdown

>>106739282
>I'd like to see you write bare metal code on an MCU in Rust and show me how it stacks up with anything written in C.
I did contributed to one of the drivers for a peripheral in the HAL. It wasn't anything fancy, but it was quite a headache to read every technical specification for every supported chip variant to make sure I set everything correctly.
In the end, I think I like Rust version of that driver much more. However it's mostly thanks to the fact that we were doing this after all these chips have already been released. The counterpart C++ driver is much more awkward to use because it has been designed for much simpler hardware and had to be retrofitted into much more complex later versions of that peripheral.
Other than that what is there even to compare. Our code is more readable and better commented maybe but it's just power on, configure and use, there isn't any deep philosophy there lmao.

>Concurrency is needed to know exactly what every sensor is doing so that other parts of your system can adjust accordingly so doing that without an RTOS
Embassy is not that different from rtos. The difference is that it leverages async and you only pay for what you use so in the end you get much less bloat. You can still have as much if not more control over your execution. Especially if you configure multiple executors with different priorities you can go wild with it

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prG9xFkvlNg

Have you noticed just how many UI/UX people are grill, Also web designers are grill.

This is more pronounced in my neck of the woods where a loudspeaker is not shouting "Yass girlboss!" into the female's ears 24/7.

Since companies are allowed to hire people based on sex, some job listings clearly say if they want a Pajeet or a Paria (it does not happen that often, though) and all the jobs who specify female applicants are either looking for web designers, UI/UX people, or SCRUM master (pic related lol). That does not mean the female does not get to be the CTO. Every callback I get, it's a female HR, and when I get to the interview, it's some ugly chick who interviews me. And I have to look down so I won't make eye contact.

These girls offer their UI/UX and web design services on Instagram for some reason. I hired one to make me a logo, and the bitch kept telling me "POST REFERENCE!" and I was like "BITCH, I WAS REJECTED FROM FILM SCHOOL, WHAT DO I KNOW WHAT IS A REFERENCE". Cunt sent back my money and blocked me.

Maybe we're behind the Westoid at the moment, but the Westoid only got here because it was once free of the Globalist's "nosy" shackle.

I seriously wish the best for my Westoid friends in kicking the Globalist to the curb and make it bite it. Just remember to use strong doors this time, not wooden doors.

All and all, the field has been around for 70yrs now. Even Lorinda Cherry who was and all-around badass is only known mostly for her contribution to a tool used by secretaries.

>>106722297
No. But it's not that good either. You shouldn't be using rust or any other low/mid level programming language to make applications. Just use boring Java, Kotlin, Scala, or C#. You will be happier. Heck use shitty Python. Rust, Zig, C, C++, nope, only for very specific usecases.

>>106739676
I can name 3 wyminoids whose works are vital to the progress of Compsci.

Linda Turczon, Monica Lam, and Sarah Harris.

Just the top of my head. I could prolly name more if I cared enough.

I think women are good at computational side of computer science, the word "Compooter" literally referred to a woman with a slide rule tabulating numbers in the 1930s. But men are logical creatures, so they do logic better.

btw, I don't consider trans women as real women.

>>106728068
>you CAN'T write code with vulnerabilities
But here's the thing: you totally can do it, even sticking to only writing safe code. XSS vulnerabilities are still possible if you're doing web work. SQL injection's still quite easily possible if you do database work unwisely. You can totally cause stack crashes with simple, utterly "safe" code; the type system isn't nearly strong enough to prevent it (the way to prevent it is probably impossible to write without "unsafe" code). And if you're doing numeric work, you can make the most ghastly, career-ending bugs that are still totally "safe".
Safety doesn't guarantee correctness. Even full higher-kinded types don't, so if Rust went that far (and it doesn't) then it would still have problems.

>>106739118
>readability & optimizing compiler trade-offs
there is nothing more “readable” about the borrow checker straight jacket or rust in general

>If you want "low level constructs" you'll need to use ASM.
that’s just flat out not true

>>106738530
This is not some post in defense of rust but C doesn’t even have sensible operator precedence. They made a lot of mistakes but couldn’t afford it to change them because legacy systems already began to depend on them.

>>106739093
>Let me know when your meme language allows a precise piece of equipment to function reliably without failure and then maybe i won't talk shit about it.
C and C++ still don't allow that.

>>106739358
>Plus, Rust makes it hard to do anything bare metal. Also, the so-called 'memory safety' means shit if you wanna do bare-metal.
Rust makes it easier than C and memory safety on bare metal is more important because your code has no OS to catch you when things go wrong.

>>106740154
>>If you want "low level constructs" you'll need to use ASM.
>that’s just flat out not true
How do you change page tables or set a processor flag in C without ASM?

>>106740472
Benjamin Franklin once said "Those who sacrifice freedom for the sake of security, neither deserve freedom, nor security".

>>106731381
You just don’t see any of it. C# and Java both do this, in that they make use of unsafe constructs at the root of a lot of their memory manipulation tools in the stdlib.

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>>106722297
>entire internet
its a webshitter lang
do with that information as you please

>>106734852
Interrupts are not really a language feature, it’s going to be heavily dependent on your processor and typically amounts to sticking an address into a specific location in memory for the CPU to jump to, and twiddling some registers. You either do this directly using pointers and inline assembly, or call a function that registers the interrupt for you. I’m pretty sure you could handle interrupts in JavaScript if you were bloody minded enough.

>>106741014
Rust gives you more freedom and more security than C.

>>106741279
post example of what you can do in rust that you cannot in c

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>>106741299 cont
>>106741279
it appears the best way to make a crab shut the fuck up is to ask em to elaborate on their propaganda

>>106741234
> handling interrupts
> in javascript

If you have a tool that compilers JS to native code, yes. But an interpreter, even JIT or AOT that compilers to bytecode, cannot handle interrupts. The interrupt handler must be an address in a binary, which the linker can link to.

The interrupt vector table must also be set at a lower ring.

Holy shit Youtube is becoming intolerable.

Is it acting out for anyone else as well? Firefox on Arch.

>>106735940
><virtual hugs>
Unwanted sexual advances is LITERALLY rape. I cannot believe no one called you out on this. GTFO of the Rust community!!!!

>>106741299

HashMap::new()

>>106741601
>implying you cant write one in c
weak + homosexual
at least you could have hit me with something defensible, like the fact theres no force inlines in standard c (which still exist in its compiler-extensions, or could be coerced by configuring the inline parameters)

>>106741505
ffi.Callback literally lets you do this.

Generally, there isn't that much difference between FFI and interrupts.

>>106737708
other stuff

>>106741624
You can write C's printf in Brainfuck, so I guess that means there's no difference between having it as part of the language/standard library and having to write it yourself every time you want to use it.

>>106741601
I absolutely dislike any compiled systems language that forces me to use its hash table.

Hash tables are like concubines. I have 'virtually' a lot of them, and whenever I feel like banging the blonde one instead of the black one, I call her to my stately room and get busy.

You need to use a different hash table algo for say, a symbol table for a language, than the environment for its closures. You need to use a different algorithm for say, holding the configuration you've parsed off an INI file, than a hash table that maps your cache file names to the contents of those cache file names (btw, cache memory used to be called "Slave Memory". When did compsci go all woke? I blame the Jews).

Look at this absolute MADLAD of a hash table algorithm:

https://gist.github.com/Chubek/1eac15fb9701ef41c3ae853b1cb4342d

Distance-based hashing. Yes, Just look at it. Crabs and Gophers are missing out on this.

C is like the Wild West. If you are resourceful, you'll make it. But Rust is like a nanny state in Scandinavia. It gives you a bit of cash each month so you can survive, until Jamal fucks your sister and you have to shoot 78 people in an island to make your voice heard.

I live in a state that is far from ideal when it comes to civil liberties. I don't need my compiler to force me to abide to its rules.

>>106738107
Your writings are demented, poorly reasoned and deceitful. And you are even reposting an image of a comment by a known harrasser, Martin Hector that has alter ego Asahi Lina:

https://archive.ph/uLiWX
https://archive.ph/rESxe
https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/6/1292

Do you disavow that wretched and evil person?

For anyone else reading this, just look at the top 20 starred Rust libraries and projects on GitHub, or the 20 most downloaded crates for Rust, and search through them for unsafe. And then consider that a single instance of unsafe can require vetting of the whole module it is in. https://doc.rust-lang.org/nomicon/working-with-unsafe.html . And then further consider that unsafe Rust is significantly more difficult than C and C++.

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>>106741714
>having to write it yourself every time you want to use it.
lolle
another crab who didnt hear about the concept of a library
wtf is up with you crabs being completely retaded when it comes to programming?
is that it?
ur retards so you use rust? bc of the training wheels and because you dont know basic programming concepts?

>>106737942
>>106738113
>>106738407
Monologue?

>>106741203
Wrong, analyze and compare projects and libraries, it really is as I wrote. >>106731381

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As it turns out, Steve Klabnik also has mental health issues, though at least on the milder side.

>>106741790
Oh woe him. He's got "Clinical Depression". kek. I've inherited bipolarity from my father. I started showing signs of retardation at 7, and they thought it's ADHD so they gave me Ritalin. I hopped from psychiatrist to psychiatrist from the age of 12 to 23. They thought I have monopolar depression. Finally after 2 months of being locked up in a nuthouse with a bunch of yokels addicted to god knows how many substances, and literal faggots and schizos serving their mandatory time to get deferment, I was diagnosed with bipolarity. I have to keep myself afloat with Bupronorphine, Ritalin and Vyvanse because my psych meds leave me drained. I'm 32 and I've never had sex. I don't have a job. All my upper teeth have fallen out. I have diabetes.

Seriously, Rust is the language of fucking normoids. "I have clinical depression!!!" oh fuck off. Come back when you've literally punched your mom, and you were so out of it, you don't feel any remorse, even 12 years after the fact.

Also, my mom told me she's take 13 tablets of Tylenol Codeine when she was el preggo with me. Now I'm not sure if 3.3 grams of Acetaminophn would make your acoustic, but one wonders. I had a client from Germany, he was a nice guy, but I lost my shit and told him, his grandparents are to blame for the situation in the middle east, because they failed to exterminate 'them' properly. This requires both a state of mania unmatched by any, and some dash of autism.

Seriously, man, performance artists. When did it become cool to be a retarded mentally-ill load of shit. I've made my peace with my defective brain, and these traglodytes LARP'ing on my turf makes me red with rage. Go find your own disease to attention-whore with.

>>106741887
nice llm, steve klabnik

>>106742074
I'm so extra-ordinary, people think I'm lying when I state the absolute facts about my IRL life.

kek.

>>106741764
>harrasser
*Harasser.

>>106742084
>>106742074

>>106739655
jeets, bots, and jeet bots are not people. if your participation here is for any other purpose than messing with and making fun of artificial and non-artificial non-intelligence, you're doing it wrong.
this is the /g/eetiest board on 4jeet. effort post less.

>>106742543
no, thats boring. fuck off nigger (nta)

>>106722345
annoying people can still write good code
idk if that's the case for Rust though

>>106739655
>https://tweedegolf.nl/en/blog/65/async-rust-vs-rtos-showdown
>I don't really know what to expect except that an RTOS is made to really optimize performance and latency. So based on that, here are my predictions:

way to miss the point about what an rtos is about
an rtos is all about predictability, not latency
fukken read a book, faggot

also wtf wikipedia
the fucking source cited directly contradicts the supposed """"citation""""
fucking lamao
this
>As you can see speed is not the main factor, predictability and determinism are.
somefuckinghow
became this:
>a real-time OS is valued more for how quickly or how predictably it can respond than for the amount of work it can perform in a given period of time.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_operating_system#cite_note-3
https://web.archive.org/web/20110723091110/http://www.chibios.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=chibios:articles:rtos_concepts

>>106739655
A coherent post! I got out-p4j33t'd. I must say. I might just write my embedded ANS FORTH in Rust.

I got a callback for an embedded job, and I did not go. I knew shit about embedded :(

I think I should just stoo this whole autistic shit vis-a-vis "Rust fans are cancer, that's why Rust is bad".

I just generated a 16-chpater book using Opus on writing my JVM in Rust (Patinova). I fed it JVM specs, several papers on JVM, a book on JNI, Joe Armstrong's thesis for Green Threads, and several assembly books for the JIT.

I'm not doing myself any favors by casting out Rust from my raster of languages just because of its fans.

God knows, any of these fans are actually programmers, and not just community seekers.

I was on the Lisp Discord Server, and this millennial piece of shit bullied me out because I said I want to launch a Jihad against Neoliberalism. These goddamn community-seekers are what make the fandom toxic. He knew shit about Lisp. He once said "Scheme is no real Lisp" and his reason was so stupid, I blocked it out the same way I blocked out my junkie dad chasing my mom with a hammer, and I must admit, the two are equally PTSD-inducing.

Just ignore 'le fanbase'. Community-seekers are everywhere. In every discussion board, from Usenet to Discord. Community-seekers are pieces of shit who make life miserable for everyone.

>>106739655
>Why does the majority of threads about Rust are made by people who don't write nor like Rust then?
False, they're generally made by rustling evangelists pretending to be against Rust.

>>106739655
>>106742598
>>106742664
>>106742694
Monologue?

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>>106742711
>clear you
>monologue
you are mentally retarded
a common occurrence amongst crabs, it seems

the other retard posted a link to another retard.
neither of these have the faintest idea why RTOS 'es exist in the first place

you even fucking suck at posting on 4 chan
how retarded are you, exactly?
lets say... on a scale where a puddle is a 0 and hydrocephaliac junkie is a 10

>>106741714
>ESL
:|

>>106742664
Don't tell me, is this the first time you've seen the term "RTOS" and you think you can prove people le wrong and le deboonk them based on your one minute of exposure to the concept?

Just to let you know, modern embedded hardware are so complex, if you lock in Linux onto one core, it basically acts as an RTOS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmOHzPLcLDU

>>106741299
rustc has built-in support for cool stuff

#![feature(const_cmp)]
#![feature(const_trait_impl)]

enum JeetBuild {
    No,
    Maybe,
    Yes,
}

const LOCAL: &[u8] = include_bytes!("/etc/localtime");
const J_JEET: &[u8] = include_bytes!("/usr/share/zoneinfo/Asia/Kolkata");
const L_JEET: &[u8] = include_bytes!("/usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/London");

const JEET_BUILD: JeetBuild = if LOCAL.len() < 100 || J_JEET.len() < 100 || L_JEET.len() < 100 {
    JeetBuild::Maybe
} else if LOCAL == L_JEET {
    JeetBuild::Maybe
} else if LOCAL == J_JEET {
    JeetBuild::Yes
} else {
    JeetBuild::No
};

fn main() {
    match JEET_BUILD {
        JeetBuild::Yes => panic!("JEET BUILD"),
        JeetBuild::Maybe => eprintln!("POSSIBLY A JEET BUILD"),
        _ => (),
    }
}

save this to a "t.rs" file. then compile with:

RUSTC_BOOTSTRAP=1 rustc -o t t.rs

tell me if the compile fails.
if it doesn't fail, run:

./t

and report results.
this is going to be super cool, i promise.

>>106742978
That enumeration reads like the lyrics of Malcolm in the Middle theme song lol.

Also, Rust supports sum types, don't treat it as simple enumerations.

>>106742754
Probably inspect-element and monologue then. Off yourself, zero-IQ, demented, incompetent, rustling evangelist troll.

>>106743026
i love those updates to your llm programming. you evolve your deflections and "no u"s very well. it's very interesting.

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>>106741014
Yes well let's see this Ben Franklin guy's compiler

>>106743173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTfOnGZUZDk

It's because of him that we got grep.

>>106741764
>Your writings are demented, poorly reasoned and deceitful.
You are yet to prove me wrong.

>>106743190
yes. everything we know was invented in the last 2 centuries by yanks, from humor to text search.
>t. technically a yank

>>106743245
you're playing seriously with a jeet llm.
play stupid games, win .......

>>106743111
Off yourself, delusional, dishonest, negative-worth troll.

>>106743279
zero-iq midwit

>>106743245
>>106743274
Yet another lie from you.
And you didn't disavow the evil and wretched person with the names Martin Hector, Asahi Lina. Fuck off from this board and kill yourself.

>>106743292
Is an admission by you about yourself, deceitful, dimwitted troll. Off yourself.

>>106743301
your dictionary expansions are quite limited. report that to your programmer.

>>106743321
>>106743279

>>106743263
You guys invented the misconception that Ashkenazi Jews are real Jews as well. So we take the good with the bad.

Seriously, if Orr Pinely is a Jew, and Jerry Seinfeld is a Jew, too, then burn them all. Unless we reach an agreement that Jerry Seinfeld and his ilk are Westoids LARP'ing as Jews. Then, we can focus our genocide on one strain of the Menace.

>>106743349
Be kinder to yourself.

>>106743460
I don't like myself.

>>106743480
Then stop trolling and change yourself.