You don't buy an amp/DAC to make your headphones sound better.

You buy an amp/DAC because your existing DAC has problems (RF interference causing noise in headphones when your phone gets a text message within 10 feet, buzzing/noise from your GPU, etc), or your built in headphone amp can't drive your headphones properly (not making them loud enough or shitty bass response due to a lack of current, etc).

>>106730472
>>106730448
Oh yea, and occasionally you might want one for the ability to run your headphones/speakers simulteanously, and being able to swtich between them at the push of a button instead of fiddling with windows audio settings or unplugging/replugging in cables.

>>106730448
If you can hear a difference and can definitely tell which is better than the other one is who scammed you.

>>106730448
>I think it sounds better
compared to what? $200 is not an insane price for a dac/amp combo.

The huge difference is that you can now use headphones that you previously couldn't, if you're comparing it to your motherboard's audio jack.

>>106730472
Another "problem" is some devices just have a terrible DAC.
My laptop sounds far worse than my desktop for example.

I'm sure there are budget desktop motherboards with shitty DAC's too, anything to save a couple of Yen.

>>106730481
I do that with an old ass tape/radio/phono amplifier on my desk, lol, the PC is the "radio"

You dont need a usb dac if your pc has toslink. Its a much cheaper dac

>>106730615
I mainly got this one because it has both RCA in and speaker out so I can plug in both my PC and ps1. My pc does have toslink but I've just been using monitor audio through displayport/hdmi and it sounds kinda shitty if I'm using one of my game consoles. Like there's a low pitched buzzing noise whenever I use my ps2.

>>106730472
>>106730481
>>106730581
and also having a big fucking analog dial to control global audio volume is fucking rad
OP is a retard that buys expensive shit and doesn't know why he does it

>>106730448
If you bought it thinking things will sound better then you weren't scammed, you got filtered by your IQ.

>my bottom-of-the-barrel device doesn't make much of a difference
almost worth a light chuckle

How much power does it draw when turned on? Is it over 34W?
If it's over 34W, you got fukken scammed dude, a 2nd hand A/V receiver would do you better, have more ins and outs.
Literally, unless you have le balanced audio, you got gaped.

If it draws <10W or around 10W then, you might offset the cost of a receiver in like, 5 years maybe through power draw, but only if you live in a first world nation, if you live in a developing nation with cheap electricity it will take you closer to 10 years to recoup.

>>106732191
No one wants a massive fucking AV system sitting on their desk, don't be a fucking retard.

The K7 CAN use up to about 20W, but realistically it'll use half that or less for the vast majority of headphones.

>>106732227
>No one wants a massive fucking AV system sitting on their desk, don't be a fucking retard.
Sounds like a retard would put an A/V receiver on their desk. Don't be one then. Simple as you utter ninny.
Are you incapable of buying a longer s/pdif cable? do you live in a world with 1M headphone cables? Who would choose to live in such a world willingly? Only a retard.

You have a skill issue. You are applying your retard mental gymnastics to a situation and world that others do not inhabit, cease that behaviour and refrain from posting in the future; lurk more you newfaggot.

>>106732273
>i love stretching 1+ meter long cables across the room to connect my headphones to a massive A/V unit

you're retarded.

>>106732282
>>i love stretching 1+ meter long cables across the room to connect my headphones to a massive A/V unit
You sound like you're attempting to gape your anus, it's a headphone cable, post yours.
Let's see how long it is, if it's 1.25m or 1.5M you are undeniably a faggot and living in faggot realm. If it's 2M you enjoy a 5cm tier of gaping, don't you now?

The word stretching was superfluous you're at home, not outdoors. It is the environment in which you dwell and if the idea of an extra .7m of cables signals a stress relief to the point you must invoke the image of stretching then you are living in a faggot earth and should buy the appropriate bluetooth & / RF headphones for your budget you old fool.

>>106732306
I'm using DCA NoireX with a 2 meter 4 pin XLR cable into a balanced amp/DAC.

Even with a 2 meter cable, i still don't want to waste a meter+ just to connect to an A/V unti to save a couple bucks over getting a proper PC amp/DAC.

>>106732328
Too long! BLOAT!!!!

>>106730448

it does not have 2.8kilo toroid that could use delay start so you are good

>>106730448
Have you ever heard of diminishing returns?

>>106730448
if you're asking if you got scammed, then yes.
if you dont think there's a huge difference with the sound quality, then you got double-scammed.

learn to EQ, it's free.

>>106732984
I think I'll probably have more noticeable results with my ps2 and xbox since that's going from an analog output format to digital instead of HDMI to toslink like with my PC. I also wanna see how well it outputs RCA through my ps1 with the light gun adapter.

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>>106730448
>I think it sounds better but there's not a huge difference.
welcome to hifi audio
you've just experienced the biggest change in audio quality you're likely to experience, it is all diminishing returns
it isn't the 90s anymore, consumer pc audio is pretty spot on now. I can't remember the last time I heard noise or whine through onboard audio

I owned the previous generation of this without the balanced output. It's a perfectly good, good quality headphone DAC/AMP. But the sound is not the most exciting for music listening. For that, around the similar price, the Ifi Zen is a much more enjoyable piece of kit.
I ended up selling the K7 and the Zen blew itself up after getting a small static shock. Currently rocking the Fiio K11 which is also 'just fine'.

>>106730675
Hell fuckin yeah volume knob gang rise up

>>106730675
Just use your second scroll wheel?

Oh, right, zoomers don't have decent mice anymore. 20 years ago I had a media keyboard with a volume wheel in the palm rest, I cannot imagine having to reach across my desk to change audio levels.

I got the topping dx1 and I love it.

Line in, line out, volume knob.

Let me guess, you NEED more?

>>106733473
Zoomers use Hall effect gayming tkl keyboards and super light optical mice that have a better sensor than the old WMO that is quake boomers used.

>>106733585
>super light optical mice that have a better sensor than the old WMO that is quake boomers used.
None of that matters. You don't even have optical scroll wheels anymore, which was standard since the fucking 90s. Dual scroll is something that should be on every mouse, but isn't. Modern peripherals die in a year, by design.

>>106730472
Jokes on you, I got my DAC, a Fiio Olympus 2, because my computer is a good meter away from my desk and I wanted to plug in my headphones. I got it for $20 almost a decade ago.

>>106733603
I have a collection of intellimouse, wmos etc and I can make them reliably malfunction with my swipes.

>>106730448
>I think it sounds better but there's not a huge difference.
Yeah, that's how it works. DACs and amps are largely "solved" problems and you don't really need changes or upgrades unless you have obvious issues. Such issues can be noise from interference or background hum, or with an amp if it simply does not drive your speakers (or headphones in this case) loudly enough. If there's nothing obviously wrong with your audio then odds are that a DAC / amp upgrade will not bring you any major benefits at all.

Changing the headphones themselves or the speakers is often going to bring far greater differences than the DAC or amp.

>>106733624
Okay? They'll all still be working in 20 years, while anything you buy now won't last 2.

>>106730615

is dac dsp-mic any good

What are you comparing it to? If you already had something similar there could be little difference. What are your headphones? If they're not revealing enough there could be little difference.

Personally, even for 15€ headphones (Koss KSC75) I still use a DAC/amp that costed me about 800€ and it sounds quite a lot better there than it does plugged to my macbook.

>>106732227
You do want it if you want the best sound quality you can get.
The more quality you want, the bigger it all gets.
I have a bit over 100 kilos of audio gear between my desk and an ikea shelf next to my desk just to listen to headphones.

>>106733643
My superlight 2 is 16 months old and works flawlessly, my previous mamba is about 5 years old and on my second PC, my mechanical keyboard is 10 years old and my Hall effect keyboard is 3 months old and hasn’t had a single issue

>>106733086
"The music isn't even good but the recording quality is unbelievable".
Literally me lol. Have a lot of music like that. The fact it sounds so good makes me enjoy the music much more even if it's not that good.

>>106730472
i heard there's virtually no difference on the raw audio from a cheap mobo onboard sound chip and a $$ accessory. the difference is what you actually need it to do, and its custom software features, for example i have a usb dac that expands to a 7.1 speaker setup.

>>106733700
>What are you comparing it to?
My monitor's onboard audio jack
>What are your headphones?
Sony WH-CH720N. I think I should get new cables or something because it's started doing the thing where one channel won't play if you don't twist the 3.5mm audio jack the right way.

You know an amp's purpose is to amplify, yes? It does not remix and master the music for you.

>>106735953
idk I guess I just thought there'd be a bigger difference since audiophiles always talk about how great DACs are but like I said it lets me get less noisy audio out of my game consoles so whatever.

>>106733473
Changing the volume in windows degrades the audio quality, always keep windows audio at 100% and adjust volume on the amp directly.

Basically windows audio is a digital attenuator, if you take a 16-bit audio signal and reduce the volume by 6dB, it's now 15-bit audio. The lower your volume in windows, the lower bit-depth audio signal you're using. This also leads to quantization errors since it needs to be represented with an integer value multipled by a fraction which needs to be rounded, the rounding errors introduce digital noise.

So to preserve audio quality, bit depth, and dynamic range, always keep windows audio at 100%.

>>106736060
I didn't know that, thanks!

>>106733744
You don't need an off board DAC for that, virtual surround is supported natively in windows, with 3 different codecs. The native windows sonic codec, Dolby Atmos, and DTS:X. Both dolby and DTS require paying for a license but once you have paid for it, it's tied to your Microsoft account. I've had the dolby license for like 10 years.

You just need to enable it in the windows audio settings for playback devices.

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>>106730448

>He didn't spend thousands on a dac

>>106736094
>>106733744
Oh yeah, and the license works for both headphone virtualized surround sound, and also allows you to run actual 5.1+ dolby/DTS speakers in windows too, it's not JUST for headphones.

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>>106730481
My reason for getting this little fucker was to
1) Finally shelve my older, bulkier Phillips receiver I was using for the longest time and
2) Be able to turn down my volume with the amp and not through Windows when I'm streaming to my Discord kittens since fucking with the windows volume affects the stream audio

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What's the quality like on one of these things when plugging a bluetooth transmitter into the 3.5mm jack vs getting the bluetooth version?

>>106736086
Yep, it's one of the main reasons to get an amo/DAC in my opinion, even if it's just a small portable one like >>106736131

>>106736184
Meant >>106736158 not >>106736131

>>106736165
Oh nvm it doesn'[t do bluetooth out only bluetooth in.

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yeah you got scammed

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They make decent shit for cheap. You just need to be smart enough to sort the good from the slop

>>106730472
/thread

>>106735932
You idiot, those headphones already have an integrated DAC and amp, they're wireless. You can't bypass it with the 3.5mm jack and the one you bought. That's why you can't tell a difference at all.
And even if you COULD bypass it, those headphones are so shit you'd also never be able to tell.

>>106736109
Questyle is a meme and so is that Sennheiser headphone. I'd spend my thousands on other audio gear, just not that.

>>106730472
Honestly, wrong.
A better amp and DAC will allow you to make your headphones sound better as long as your headphones are high-end enough to be able to show those difference (also known as scaling).
Sure there are diminishing returns but you can still hear the difference. I have about 4 or 5 amps and they all sound different on all my headphones, so I pick the one that has the best synergy with each headphone (warmer amp with brighter headphone and viceversa).

>>106736375
>You idiot, those headphones already have an integrated DAC and amp, they're wireless.
I can't use wireless with my ps2 or other retro consoles.
>And even if you COULD bypass it, those headphones are so shit you'd also never be able to tell.
Ok, what should I get instead? I'm open to suggestions.

>>106736375
You can bypass the internal amp/DAC as long as the headphones are turned off and you use the 3.5mm cable.

Still don't think it'll improve much if anything for OP though, as you said, they're just not great headphones to begin with.

>>106736375
even in wireless headphones where you can bypass the amp, they will never sound good that way because they're designed with the onboard DSP in mind.

>>106730448
You need an amplifier to drive headphones that needs the power.
If you have a low impedance headphone and clean signal, you're not really going to get much benefit.

Times when you want a dac/amp
You have a lot of electric noise. Like from your pc/monitors/tv
Or when you have headphones that require that much power.

i just bought a cp-13 but my headphones are way too sensitive for it. what's the easiest way to add some impedance?

>>106736429
If any of your amps are "warmer" than the other then you just bought garbage, because making a headphone amplifier that is flat over the audible spectrum is easily achievable nowadays and any deviation from this just means it's a shit product that wasn't designed properly. If you want to add coloration to the sound for personal preference, which is perfectly fine, then that should be done by adjusting EQ, not by owning 37 different shitty amps with fucked up outputs that aren't flat.

>>106730448
Yay I got the same one! Drives my mudblasters very well.

>>106730497
Compared to mobo audio I suppose, kek.

>>106736755
isn't a new one coming out in a few months from now?

I miss nwavguy

>he bought fiio
Ha ha!

>>106730448

external dacs are on their way to becoming obselete. Only to be kept alive by diehard "audiophiles"

>>106740722
There is a literal explosion in the external DAC market.

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The funniest/saddest thing about audiophiles is not the autistic obsession (I respect that), and not the snake oil (not everyone is an expert on electronics and psychoacoustics), but the fact that by the time you are old enough to have money to spend on fancy audio hardware, your hearing is absolute shit and nothing will ever bring it back

>>106730472
>not making them loud enough
My audio interface (and my motherboard, for that matter) drive my MDR-7506's so hard that I turn the volume down so low that I can barely control it. The usable range of the knob is between 5% and 10%. I would love to have an extra volume knob between in front of my output.

>>106730448
Anyone got any recs for a volume knob device?

>>106740734
>Chi-fi

>>106736131
>>106736094
anyone onow why sonic studio fails to open sometimes saying the driver isnt correct and the after resetting it opens up. sometimes it hapoens and sometimes it doesnt. more often than not it does.

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>>106736204
how can you use an amp for bluetooth headphones? i have some old senny iebt(hd1?) with the neckband and i fail to see how a bluetooth amp would change anything.

>>106730448
a 5$ dongle with a decent dac chip does the same job, with weaker amplification of course

>>106736060
Huh, I thought you were full of shit, but upon further review you're correct.
Learn something new everyday.

>>106743239
>>106736060
Does this apply to EQ programs such as Equalizer APO Editor? I use a negative preamp to allow for EQ generally

>>106736944
Not that simple, anon. Even if the amp is flat there are different technologies that add their own special thing to the sound. Subtle but audible with the proper gear.
For example class A amps instead of D, different types of transistors (FET, VFET, etc).
Some achieve more resolution than others, so on so forth.
I only use vintage high end amps from the 70s to amplify my headphones.
I completely reject EQ. If a headphone doesn't sound the way I like, and none of my amps make it sound right, I get rid of it and get something else.
Plus, even if I wanted to (which I don't) it would be a fucking nightmare to implement with my CD player and my turntable. It would all sound different compared to my computer.
Thankfully by now I'm happy with all the headphones I use regularly so I don't have to worry anymore about things like EQ since it all sounds right.
PS: I have no interest in meme tier chinese made class D amps. Not only they wouldn't work with any of my headphones unless they were speaker amps, they're just not made the same way. A modern amp comparable to what I use would cost multiple thousands, and even then it wouldn't have the same qualities I look for in an amp.

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>>106730472
This

and this is what OP should've gotten

>>106743268
On a purely technical level there is still some minor losses, but it's using higher precision floating point math than Windows uses, so the impact is far less than turning down the volume in windows.

So if you DO need to lower volume, using EQAPO is your best bet.

>>106740786
"Age related" hearing loss is mostly noise related hearing loss. Anything above 70dBa can cause hearing damage. It's very easily to exceed 70dBa. (85dBa "safety" threshold is actually "unlikely to make you legally deaf" threshold).

>>106744178
>I completely reject EQ.
Not possible. Everything in your signal chain adds EQ. Mechanical or acoustic EQ is still EQ. Electronic EQ is necessary to compensate for this.

i have the same dac, i like it

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>>106736060

>>106730481
>>106730581
>>106730675
Big nice feeling analog dial, headphones and speakers, and having multiple computers that all have audio is the reason I use an old amplifier. Able to choose a source with a button and there's a button to mute speakers while still keeping headphone playback.

>>106745919
I obviously mean software based EQ, made by me.
Instead I choose headphones that sound great by default and then I choose the most appropriate amp for it (system synergy).

>>106730448
I got one a couple years ago because I had gotten a Beyerdynamic DT1990 (my first high-end headphones) and my regular audio output couldn't power them adequately. I tried another, smaller DAC/amp and that also couldn't, so this was the next attempt. It works perfectly. I like how it:
- just werks (no driver suite necessary)
- has high-quality physical controls, such as those little toggles for gain level and the big volume dial
- just werks for my use case (the volume dial "clicks" and shuts off the device at the minimum/left position, so Windows detects that the device was turned off and defaults to my speakers instead instantly. And vice versa)

>>106730448
These are only good if you want a knob, though of course you'd buy a cheaper one.

>>106746510
Yes, that's called retardation, you're not finding some magical audio synergy, you're just an autistic moron with more money than sense.

And I doubt you've got all that much money which makes it even more retarded.

Buy a flat amp/DAC, EQ in software for whatever headphones you're using.

Switching headphones? Switch EQ profiles.

Only the most gigantic faggot audiophool retards think changing amps/DACs for each headphone makes ANY sort of sense.

>>106730448
If I get one of these things can I still control the volume from my computer? I don't see at a desk I sit in a recliner far away. It would be a super pain if I had to get up to turn that knob all the time.

>>106747735
You CAN, but you shouldn't
see >>106736060

>>106748093
So what's my alternative? Are there headphones that just don't need that stuff?

>>106748136
Get an amp/DAC with a remote

Topping DX3+ or DX5 II both have remotes.

$199 and $299, respectively.

>>106748233
Thanks I'll check them out.

>>106740786
>he didn't make it by 30
Ngmi

>>106747656
>Switching headphones? Switch EQ profiles.
How often do you switch headphones for that to be a problem?
Just listen for a day or two and your brain will adjust its own EQ.

>>106749152
I'm replying to a moron who says he switches headphones AND amps frequently.

>>106736060
then use 24 bit, everything supports it these days
I've noticed noise with 1 bit but nothing with 24 bit

>>106749433
Windows already converts whatever input audio to 32 bit for its own mixing before it outputs at whatever your DAC is set to.

>>106736060
chatty told me you're full of shit.
Apparently, starting with windows vista, the windows mixer does all its operations in 32 bits, making this a non-issue.

>>106736060
Always do the opposite of what audiophiles say
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ending-the-windows-audio-quality-debate.19438/

audiophilia is proof that human beings are irrational and that the human experience of consciousness holds something of a mystical quality. the science and theory behind audio engineering and audio electronics has been solved decades ago yet people still claim to experience new audial perceptions from using new audio equipment. even if it is objectively impossible to prove that a particular piece of gear sounds better or even different at all to another. I am still tempted to believe these reports sometimes simply because of the fact that their subjective experience is unique and unprovable through empirical methods and thus cannot actually be argued against.

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>>106750736
>the science and theory behind audio engineering and audio electronics has been solved decades ago yet people still claim to experience new audial perceptions from using new audio equipment
No, it hasn't. Maybe for speakers, but research on headphones and IEMs was quite lacking before 2015

>>106730615
brainlet
toslink is digital so you still need a dac just the same
and toslink dacs aren't cheaper than usb dacs and mobos with toslink are more expensive than mobos without toslink
only advantage is that it has galvanic isolation which prevents ground loops and interference

>>106750498
It's not a non-issue.
It's LESS of an issue.

It's still an issue.

>>106750898
Wait so should I use usb or toslink input on my DAC if it has both?

>>106751015
Toslink CAN do up to 24/192khz, but check the specs on the DAC (and your motherboard) to be sure.

Otherwise USB will (usually) be higher quality, but it wont matter massively.

>>106750904
It's a non-issue for all human listeners.

>>106750498
It still runs into a DAC after windows attenuates it, and unless your DAC is well over 24 bits there'll be a measurable loss of resolution from lowering the volume in your OS

I do it anyway because I'm not autistic and don't have an external amp. But >>106736060
is right, ignoring the fact that windows then butchers the signal if it has to attenuate it>>106750522

One of my friends recommended leaving the phone volume close to 0 when it's plugged into a car stereo receiver "to save power." There's basically no impact, if anyone was wondering about that, too