What were IDE Hard Drives like?
loud and very cool + Epic
>>106731418Inferior to SCSI.
problematic identity paradigm
>>106731418wh40k machine sound effects
>>106731430What were SCSI Hard Drives like?
>>106731493Very scuzzy. Want to hear what zip drives we like?
>>106731418usually 3.5" sometimes CF udma 33/66/100/133 iircmaxtor always broke first
>>106731418slow
>>106731418salty coins and milk
>>106731638you need twin cables for speedlitz effect
>>106731666
>>10673146243yo boomer here...kek
>>106731418Wouldn't you rather hear about running BeOS 5 on a parallel zip drive?
>>106731418Slow and noisy and smol.
>>106731493Based as shit. Backwards compatible as well. I can stick a modern U320 300GB SCSI HDD into a computer from 1996 and it JUST WERKS.
extremely slow, really loud. Shit capacities. I know HDDs are still a thing now but if you're a zoomer who's never used a computer without a solid state drive it's hard to describe the noise. You could tell when your computer was busy loading files because it was like a constant mechanical whirrl that would get interrupted. They're shit and I'm glad everyone moved onto ssds
>>106731418I installed xp on one recently it doesn't feel slow and it's only marginally louder than a modern hddit does run a bit hotter but what really sucks is the low capacity and how many of them you can plug in the mobo
>>106731418make sure to plug everything in correctly and they worked fine.
>>106731418Often was by far the loudest thing in the PC from both the whine of the motor and the seeks.For some reason they always seemed to have bad sectors, at least for the drives I had.They where reliable tho.Jumpers always seemed intuitive but in hindsight they where retarded.
>>106731418tiny capacity
I remember having to set the jumper settings. master/slave just for the OS to boot
>>106731418Exactly the same as contemporary SATA drives.Sorry to tell you the truth, but unlike the rest of the thread, I'm not some underage who's regurgitating shit from a JewTube channel because he wasn't there.
>>106731418better than MFM hard drives at least
>>106731418Just kind of like.. normal I guessI ran one up to a few years ago.
>>106731462>mfw upgrading an iMac G4, putting it all back together, and realizing both drives were set to master
>>106732084you set hdd as slave as usual`?
>>106732121HDD and DVD drive were both set to master. I had to pull the fucker back apart to set the ODD as CS or slave
>>106732084>imacwhy didn't you ask your boyfriend to fix it?
>>106731493they are not that loud everyone makes them to be i did not boot maybe twice might been nt 3.4 or nt 4 cannot remember
>>106732158my boyfriend is useless with technology
>>106732158PowerPC Macs are from an era where Macs weren't gay
>>106732176anon their logo was a rainbow apple, their motto was "think different", and their marketing intentionally targeted homosexuals
>>106732188Once upon a time rainbows were just rainbows. Rainbows being associated with faggots is a relatively recent atrocity
>>106732176and they can still run the latest macOS
>>106732221No they can't
>>106732225yeah too they can
>>106732230The last OS X version for PowerPC was 10.5.8
>>106732249never heard of opencore
>>106732261Their website only mentions x86 devices
>>106732195'pride' flag dates to 78, keep coping retard
>>106732285that's recent, retard
>>106732285I know but people actually associating rainbows with fags is far more recent. Besides, Apple dropped the rainbow logo years before the G4 came out
>>106732285The rainbow Apple logo is from '77 retard, it predates the pride flag.
>>106731418They were reliable. but slow and noisy.I don't miss them.
>>106731418really fucking slow, but better than needing a dedicated floppy drive for the os.
>>106731542You can keep it in your pants.
>when you computer won’t boot up and you hear click… click… click…
>>106732739weeks of pornography lost ;___;
that hot electronic smell
>>106732867
>>106731493Every computer came with two IDE busesEach bus could support two devices on it — one master, one slaveCross-bus traffic was at full speedSame-bus traffic was half speedSo if you had two hard drives and a CD-ROM drive, you’d have to think hard about which transfer would be slower — CD to primary HD or to “extra” HDSCSI had none of these problems and you could support seven or 15 SCSI devices with only ONE ribbon cable Eventually LVD (low-voltage differential) SCSI became a thing and you’d have one LVD cable for your hard drives and one cable for your optical drives (say a CD-R drive and a DVD drive)
>>106733257thanks chatgpt!
>>106731418Great when you're drunk and push it in wrong and crush the pins
>>106731493It's pronounced skuzzi
>>106733257>Every computer came with two IDE busesXT computers needed a hard drive controller card, which would have the IDE portssome Pentium 3 and Athlon boards had on-board RAID controllers that added one or two more IDE buses
>>106733257>you’d have to think hard about which transfer would be slowerit's not that hard. if you have two hdd's and a cd drive, you put one hdd on each bus. having a cd drive on the same bus as the hdd you're transferring to/from is hardly an issue as cd's are relatively slow, only a handful of megabytes a second, not enough to reach half the speed of a pata bus you're likely to have had (both pata and cd drives got faster over time, but you'd basically need an '80s computer with a '00s cd drive for it to be a consideration)
>>10673141875% lasted forever, 25% died in a year.Okay data speeds for the time. Heavy as fuck.
>>106732867I look like this and say this
>>106731418slownoisyunreliable
>>106731418It's how they were. Also just use cable select and hook your cable up right.
>>106731780stores seem to still move em i see 43 seagate model in last ten days just in one retailer
>>106732878them banging sshd again thakkthakkathakkatkhakka like thousand times
>>106733257shitbox two ide 66 120GB only better get pci adapter for 100 500GB class
>>106731418Those ribbon cables have not aged well. Brittle bastards.
>>106731418like bags of rust
>>106731493They sounded like buzzsaws. Sitting at the computer was like being in a busy wood shop
>>106731493https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jobgc10X2dw
>>106734899God that fucking noise late at night just humming away while playing text adventure games.
>>106734985I loved my Antec P180. Full of drives and could barely hear them
>>106732878i-it's just the background defrag running
>>106735272y-yeah, must be...
>>106734985i liked it it; very soothing. when the last drives i had died i replaced the noise with korean and french female asmr.
>>106733257Most of this is oversimplified to the point of being wrong. I have no doubt there were some ultrachink onboard IDE controllers in 1997 that worked as poorly as this, but anything outside the sub-$80 mobo (and sub-$20 IDE controller) ghetto did not.
>>106731757I miss my O2. She was so cute (and slow).Would be fun to see how modern web browsing feels like. Even 15 years ago it was already sluggish to use Nekochan firefox build...
At the PC shop I worked at I constantly had to fix people's IDE DMA settings. When PCs were brought in for being slow I always checked what mode the drive was using, lots of the time something would be broken and the HDD running in PIO mode instead, which meant HDD accesses would cause 100% CPU usage. Fixing that shit was night and day. My coworkers were too stupid to notice that shit or even know what it was and were paid twice as much. Fuck PC repair.IDE cables fuckin sucked for cable management.
>>106731418If we still had them, I bet we would be banned from referring to the master drive as master and slave as slave.
>>106731493eeee *Chunk* *Chunk* *KACHUNCK* EEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeee *CHUNK* **Sound of bucket of gravel falling down the stairs* EEEeee
>>106731780>extremely slow, really loud. Shit capacities.Maybe in the 1980s and 1990sIn the mid 2000s you could get 200GB IDE drives and they weren't any louder than SATA drives.>>106733511>XT computers needed a hard drive controller card, which would have the IDE ports>actshually...Not only XTs, most 80286 and 80386 PCs needed a HDD controller card, except models manufactured by top-name brands such as IBM, Compaq and Dell that already integrated the controller in the motherboard.Off-the-shelf motherboards with integrated HDD controllers only started becoming commonplace in late 80486 / early Pentium days.
>>106731780>really loudYes, some were, but by the early/mid 2000 there were som incredibly quiet drives available too.7200rpm single platter Seagate Baraccuda were some of them.And if you wanted the absolutely quietest you could try to get one of the U series X-10 5400rpm versions meant for the Xbox.
for me it's the maxtors with the cool rubber jacket
>>106737461wait that's a seagate, guess i misremembered that
>>106731418They stored data while using different connectors.
>>106737461I remember hating Maxblast for some reason.
>>106737500yea basically, nothing really interesting about them versus a sata hdd which are still the standard for consumers todaynow MFM hdds on the other hand are interesting to learn about if you haven't already. well you know how "IDE" and "PATA" seem to be used interchangeably? well they don't mean the same thing. PATA is the protocol, Parallel ATA, yea one of those abbreviations that expands to another abbreviation, which gets even better because ATA is short for AT attachment. another abbreviation. AT doesn't officially stand for anything, though apparently it could mean "advanced technology". so it's "parallel advanced technology attachment" i guess.as for IDE, that's Integrated Drive Electronics. it refers to the fact the hard drive controller is actually on the hard drive itself, which sounds funny today, but before IDE/PATA hdd's were much more "raw", they needed to be paired with a hard drive controller card that did the actual work of turning host read/writes into drive head signals a hdd could use
>>106737461I remeber these were always hit or miss if you got a good one, because there were two versions, one that was practically silent and had decent performance for a 5400rpm disk, and one that sounded like you threw a fist full of gravel into a spinning washing machine when reading/writing.
these connectors hurt your fingers
>>106733257>SCSI had none of these problems and you could support seven or 15 SCSI devices with only ONE ribbon cablewould you care to explain to the class now how much a '15 device LVD SCSI cable' kostet? Should have framed the fuckers. All gone now, like tears in rain.
>>106737789https://youtu.be/p0hMuBdl9TMthread theme
>>106731418Slow.And hugeAnd noisy.And prone to crash.
>>106731493Great, i miss my 15krpm U320 Cheetas.In 2005 when some gamers were playing around with WD Raptors i was running four 36gb Cheetas in Raid10 that had random seek and read/write performance that wouldn't be improved before SSDs became standard for boot drives.
>>106737461why did they wear the jacket
>>106737361I distinctively remember buying a 80GB Samsung HDD in 2003 and how I was absolutely blown away about how quiet it was. Funnily the ones I got after it were loud again.
>>106738392
>>106737782I was fucking destroyed when I learned that MFM HDDs need the original controller card that was used in combination with the HDD for the old data on the drive to be readable. Apparently you can't just connect some random MFM controller to the HDD and expect your old data to be readable. It must be the exact model in combination with the HDD.I had an old MFM drive sitting in a drawer for decades but never got around to check on it only to later learn the fact with the controllers and the controller used with it back then was in a weird industrial 286 that had some specific bus (not ISA) and got scrapped decades ago. But then again the HDD itself is probably a goner anyway since those old winchester drives weren't the most reliable even when new.
>>106738478You could just record the raw signal from the read head into digital data with an SDR like they do for VHS. And some day AI will be smart enough to figure out the decoding.
>>106738478yea, mfm and older hard drives were completely dumb. the format and how to actually access data from them was down to the card used.you could probably low-level format it with a different card (i think, i'm not old enough myself to have used them), but that doesn't help if you want to use what's already on it
>>106731462kek
>>106737849Probably a gazillion dollars in 1995 or whenever
>>106738392we used to use 80mm fans on 7v fire hazards. your memory is faulty.
>>106731418You could hear the puter think :)
>>106738565we already have hardware to do that with floppy discs, and guess what? those are also MFM-encoded. i haven't looked into if anyone has tried to make something like that for hdd's
>>106742723Floppy disks followed a standardized low level format.The problem with MFM hard drives is each controller did things differently regarding how it actually encoded data on the disk. What defined basic things like a sector was different between controllers
>>106731418what stopped them from just using IDE connectors with faster data transfer rather than changing to SATA?
>>106738478>weird industrial 286 that had some specific bus (not ISA)micro channel?
>>106743307they improved them but sata was better anyway because the cables are less retarded
>>106743307straight ribbon cables aren't actually that good at high speeds. ever wonder why later IDE cables have 80 conductors instead of 40 even though the connectors are still just 40 pins? the extra wires are to reduce crosstalk. modern serial stuff instead uses differential pairs which is much more effective at this as well as rejecting interference
>>106743352this is too complicated. I'll just stick to putting shungite on my USB portsBut actually yeah that makes sense, thanks. I'm not an electical engineer by any stretch but signal integrity/crosstalk have popped up randomly since I've been using computers so I should probably know a little more
>>106731418You waited 3-5 minutes for important things to happen. The last time I used one for a modern game it was 15 minutes on a web lack, Deus Ex MD the day of release.
>>106743373WD black
>>106743307>>106743367Something else that happened is things just got fast.Clock speeds just ramped up so much it was practical to do things via serial rather than sending lower clock signals trough multiple wires.It's why USB jumped so quickly from 12 mbps to 480mbps with basically no change to the cables.It's also why PCIe is a serial interface and the first ever generation with just a single lane was faster than PCI which was parallel.
>>106737782Before mfm was rll which usually had an 8 bit full length controller card.
You blew them like cartridges.
>>106733257Can you even name a motherboard which had SCSI? I never once saw one with SCSI.
>>106731418What were you guys doing to your hard drives to make them noisy? I've only had that happen once maybe twice, and it was because the hard drive was on its last legs.
KEK
>>106731418same as sata but limited to 4 drives usually. 2 masters and 2 slaves.sata is definitely better.i used ide until about 2007 or something. at that point i had both on the same motherboard because it was a transitory period.ide for the dvd drive and some disk and sata for the other disks.
>>106737979never crashed on me.
>>106731418Too parallel for their own good
>>106745597I'm pretty sure half the posts in this thread are zoomers who've never actually used a HDD.
also, there was usually a sticker on the drive to indicate how to setup the jumpers (pins, not jumpers) (master or slave). depending where you put the "bridge" it would determine the role.
recently found one of these in my possessionshttps://theretroweb.com/storage/audiofile/western-digital-ac21600-nt4-boot-659c2b3a7d51c847535008.mp3
loud. hot. not fast.these shits were a big meme.
>>106745329Not off the top of my head, because I wasn't buying server boards in the late 1990s/early 2000s. But rest assured, very pricey motherboards with onboard SCSI HBAs did exist, just as very pricey motherboards with onboard SAS HBAs exist now.
>>106745329meet the mighty asus p2b-ds:>d - dual processors>s - not one. not two. but THREE (count em) onboard Scuzzie connectors.Them boards was genuine tanks, Quality Shit.Adaptec had most of those SCSI stuff patented up the wazoo - as you can see, it's a bundle of their chips thrown onboard. I think there were a few odd other SCSI manufacturers, but nobody ever got fired for only needing to figure out exactly which adaptec driver would let you install NT4.
>>106745329niche product: Akai Samplers S3000XL and other samplers used SCSI disks. came out early to mid 90's.example of SCSI setup on these:cd-rom scsi drive 4hdd scsi drive 1you must set the correct number in the settings.the one i put in has 500mb capacityhad to hunt one down from an old 1994 apple computer. was stupid. got rid of the computer. could probably have sold it to some zoomer
>>106731422>and very coolOn the contrary, they often went well above 50ºC in the summer. And that was fine, most had operating temperature limits around 60+ºC.
>>106749755as ferro begin to lose magnetic properties in 70 celsius
>>106749549i forgot that the disk was something like 1.8gb or 2gb and not 500mb.maybe it was the partition i made which was 500mb.the akai can partition drives.
>>106731418KINO COMING THROUGH
>>106731418They required a jumper to be in correct position. They worked. I didn't care beyond that, since I'm not a hobbyist FOSS tinkertranny.
FUCK THE IBM DESKSTAR. I lost so fucking much IRC, SOULSEEK AND MP3.COM music thanks to you.
>>106749549Probably because IDE CDROM were not fully standard at the time, requiring different drivers for each manufacturer while SCSI was a more advanced bus that abastracted the hardware better
Quantum the GOAT
>>106738360They raped
>>106737461I had a 40GB one of these until last year sometime, when I chucked it out.Not because it was broken - it worked perfectly. It's just that it was slow, uselessly small, and I was down to one working IDE<->SATA adapter.
i miss the master/slave/cable select jumper otherwise i dont miss the speed or low densities
>>106750806yooooooooo!
>>106748773>intelligent driveHow smart was it?
>>106749105Nah they weren't, those were quite speedy before SSDs replaced them. Never had any heat problems either.
>>106749549useless trivia:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL2xriqNpRI>"Sans logique" was actually recorded twice due to technical problems in the studio. The sentence "this is a blank formatted diskette" (sampled from an Ensoniq Mirage), which can be heard in the introduction of the song and later on, refers to this problem and was kept in the finished product.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoniq_Mirage>The Mirage was one of the first consumer products to utilize the then-new Microfloppy 3.5-inch floppy diskette formatWhen it formatted a 3.5 floppy is wrote to it the vocal declaration, "this is a blank formatted diskette".
>>106752405most of the floppy drives in old samplers are possible to switch with new usb drive readers. these floppy emulators allow you to make plenty of virtual floppies stored on the usb sticks
>>106731418Later IDEs weren't really different from SATA ones. Earlier ones were noisier than later ones. They actually sounded really awesome. I miss it but I'm also glad I don't HAVE to hear it.
>>106752359holds 1624.6 MB of your taxes
>>106745329I can’t. All the SCSI I had came through an IDE card.
>>106752692GoTek make good ones. I converted my bros Bridgeport CNC knee mills using them which is common. IIRC they were first used on commercial sewing machines.
I have one HDD like this but I think I busted 1 pin of the 4 that are in the right of the picture.Is this salvageable or can I say RIP to the old data that are on it?
>>106753665for recovery, you may be able to either find a compatible header and replace it, or the cheaper just solder wires directly to the motherboard's pads.exfiltrate the data and discard the drive.
>>106753734by motherboard i mean the hard drive's board.
>>106752359it was probably just a marketing thing referring to it being IDE (IDE drives put the drive controller on the hdd itself, since the hdd is then doing all the work by itself, you could call that intelligent)
>>106753665if it's one of the two middle pins, it might still work, since they're both grounds and probably tied together anyway
>>106752718it's probably more accurate to say early sata drives weren't much different to ide drives. many early sata drives included the same power connector as ide drives (as a temporary measure as existing power supplies didn't have sata power connectors) and also sata 1 drives don't support what would be considered basic sata functionality today like NCQ, and many early ones include a bridge controller on them rather than being natively sata.they weren't any faster than ide drives, it took quite a while before hdd's could actually surpass what ide could do (ide topped out at UltraDMA6/133, or 133MiB/s)
Pretty much indistinguishable
