why can they not just exist as an alternative protocol? why does their end goal have to be "replacement"?
>>106781025Because xorg comes from racist times, made by white man and needs to be purged.
>>106781025Better question: why was Wayland created at all?
>>106781025X11 enables some silly stuff like running a full linux install with a graphical desktop on smartphonesThis is problematic
who would want it as alternatives? authors want it to be the winner and software makers don't want to support more things
>>106781025they will exist side by side, its just that one will be more popular and therefore will be adopted by most distros, same as systemd.There are pros and cons to both xorg and wayland. I will probably use both depending on the use-case.
>>106781025Because no one is willing to maintain X.Org, and no one is willing to pay for it to be maintained. Thankfully, it's open source, so no one is stopping you from jumping in, fixing bugs and adding new features for as long as you wish. Don't know how to do that? No problem, just hire a guy who knows for $300k/year, no one is stopping you.
>>106781025that's what xwayland is op.
>>106781453It's called Xlibre now buddy. Deadnaming hurts.
>>106781025I understand that X is really bad at some things you expect from modern systems, like handling multiple monitors at different framerates.
>>106781025Because Redhat/IBM wants to fragment and ultimately destroy the wider free software ecosystem.
>>106781531Looks like free market doing free market things. Why do you want to dictate how corporations spend their money? Are you a commie by chance?
>>106781734Redhat hijacked all the ostensible "standards" organizations and continues to make breaking, incompatible changes forces everyone else to try and keep up. Same as what Google is doing with Chrome, really.I'm not a communist, but neither do I believe corporations as legal entities should exist at all.
>>106781509use case for multiple monitors with different framerates?
>>106781842> hijackedThey just do stuff. You can do stuff too, btw. You can even organize with other people and do stuff together, that's open source for you. No one is forcing you to use software produced by corporations.> neither do I believe corporations as legal entities should exist at all.That's communism, mate.
>>106781509Pretty sure that works fine, provided you treat them as separate X displays. Used to do that myself to run different WMs on different monitors lol. Shit, could even log in totally different users if you wanted to.It's using multiple monitors at different frame rates as a single display that's the issue.
>>106781871>That's communism, mate.Oh yeah I forgot, communism is literally when people can't shirt off liability to a legal fiction. Silly me thinking it had to do with a small oligarchy controlling everything (but "for the people") lol.In any case IBM/Redhat is clearly engaging in anti-competitive behavior you simply do not view it as such, being a sycophant.
>>106781900> anti-competitive behaviorWho are they competing with in this case? With themselves 15 years ago, when they used to sponsor x.org development?> a small oligarchy controlling everything... as opposed to right now?
>>106781964>... as opposed to right now?All roads lead to tyranny, but communism is a more direct route.And you know damn well they forcibly shut down X development. They love to cry out as they strike you, disallowing anyone else from taking over or doing things then claim they're the victim having to go it alone.
>>106781386 > they will exist side by side, its just that one will be more popular Lmao normalfag niggercattle be like consooming le current thing>and therefore will be adopted by most distros, same as systemd.The absolute state of troonix users, retvrn to windows 10 ltsc or the sovlful win7 with frutiger aero (it's not frutiger btw you fucking zoomer)> There are pros and cons to both xorg and wayland. I will probably use both depending on the use-case.Hahahaha use case for having use cases???? Who said pros and cons are a metric, channers be malding looooool
>>106782053> forcibly shut down X developmentWhat exactly does this mean? Like, are they stopping people from contributing bugfixes and improvements? Did they make the repo private? How can a corporation "shut down" an open source project? No, they just stopped funding it.You are acting like an Israeli who cries "Anti-Semitism!" when people suggest the US should stop funding his free healthcare and the genocide. How about a bit of gratitude?
>>106782120>Like, are they stopping people from contributing bugfixes and improvements?That's exactly what is happening, yes.
>>106782128You can just fork it.
>>106782120>What exactly does this mean? Like, are they stopping people from contributing bugfixes and improvements?Yes that is literally why the X11Libre fork happened. But you already know that you disingenuous cunt.
>>106782153So they didn't stop anyone, you can contribute to the fork. What's the problem?
>
>>106782170Again, you already know the answer, you people are using your monopolistic position to strong arm everyone else into not allowing it in addition to forcing "standards" to make it incompatible. That's that anti-competitive behavior again.
>>106781734its not the free market when theyre tearing down all the statues
>>106782367Whom exactly are they strong-arming? What stops you from shipping your own distro with your fork? What stops you from producing a good enough product for the existing repos to adopt it? This is not an irony, OpenBSD does this.But yeah, I know the answer, you're a nocoder special snowflake, you don't do shit, only complain and bring culture war bullshit to a tech board.>>106782390It's literally a free market.
>gaylandIt's trashPretty much need some corpo or rich bastard to come along and hire programmers to fix gayland and its faggotry already. This will take decades otherwise.
>>106781025the great replacement
>>106781025>hooo, noooo... why do we need to stop using horses and candles?Xorg is old, bloated, has a lot of corporate baggage, it's poorly designed, it's insecure by default and only has like one maintainer.
>>106781025Because X never was meant to be used in the way it was by the open source & linux community.X was made for mainframes and used by commercial Unix which was the biggest contributor and died. Was then used used by the Linux community with projects like Xfree86 and then Xorg and they quickly started realizing it's a dead end most of the stuff wanted to do was handled by the compositor anyways and X was becoming an albatross around their neck. Then they decided on doing something different that is designed for end devices in mind and making a set of protocols to standardize the compositors and that was wayland.There is nobody who will actually take over X as it has no purpose in modern computing other than compatibility which is what the xwayland project was made for. Or you know other then schizoid that think this is some great conspiracy about redhat or IBM, and speaking of IBM, if X was much of value to them they wouldn't kill it because they still sell mainframes their z systems, that shows how grim the reality is for X.
>>106781039IIRC X doesn’t have inter-process security, so, like, one program can just read what another window looks like and exfiltrate the information and possibly even control itthis is great for accessibility tools but horrible for normal programs>>106781025because the old thing will drain resources (programmer time) from the new thing, so Wayland people want X to die 100%because if you haven’t noticed, Wayland isn’t really done yet
wayland drove me back to windows
>>106784086>wayland drove me back to windowsThe contrary, I came back to linux because of wayland, because they were going to fix actual issues I had with it and X.Like fractional scaling.
>>106784117no you didnt
>>106784057>IIRC X doesn’t have inter-process security, so, like, one program can just read what another window looks like and exfiltrate the information and possibly even control it>this is great for accessibility tools but horrible for normal programsNSA added XACE to X11 over 20 years ago to deal with this. It's easy to deal with this. Xlibre also deals with this with its xnamespace extension (which uses XACE hooks).
>>106781025why don't you try reading a fucking article about it
>>106784117>issues I had with it and X, like fractional scaling.This is not an issue in X. Scaling is implemented by clients, not the server. Fractional scaling is supported by qt applications and ever per monitor on x11. It doesn't work in gtk because gtk doesn't support fractional scaling, and neither does it on wayland.
>>106783486And yet it still manages to beat out ywnbawayland
