Why can't we fucking get rid of this thing?Can't we solve the battery mobo problem with current technology?
oh no, a battery that you have to replace every 10 years, literally the antichrist
>>106807136>we
>>106807136>battery>problemBeing able to reset settings to defaults by simply removing a battery is incredibly useful, especially if a reset jumper doesnt exist
i want this replaced with the most likely to explode lithium cell possible, soldered of course
>>106807136>Let's replace a simple and effective solution with an internal lithium exploding pillow Shalom Rabbi
>>106807136The watch battery?Who cares? You should've 20 of those in your house as spares
>>106807347>house*podthank you very much!
>>106807270>10 yearsliar
>>106807136Why can't BIOS settings be stored on a simple flash chip?And time is not a problem since you boot into the OS time gets synced over the internet.
>>106807370? how often do you change them>>106807386let's not make the internet a hard dependency for a computer to run, thanks
>>106807392how the fuck uses a PC without internet these days?
>>106807392not xer, i've never changed one
>>106807403i don't care, do not give more reasons for corpos/gov to pull bs when not necessary
>>106807413shut up faggot, we all know that every PC is connected to the internet, dont pretend your some anti corpo antifa warrior
it has been
>>106807453that says radioactive, we can't have that its dangerous
>>106807386Except you can configure your mobo to turn on at specific times and it needs the clock
>>106807136>>106807386>Why can't BIOS settings be stored on a simple flash chip?They can, but it probably costs 50 cents more.
>>106807471>Except you can configure your mobo to turn on at specific timeswhat the fuck are you talking about? WoL exists for a reason
>>106807471The clock which it can get from the internet that it is plugged into or the wifi it's connected to, just keep that part always on :)
>>106807493can you explain in English?
>>106807505no :(
>>106807492Oh a retard who doesn't know a basic mobo function, great thread
>>106807518a mobo can schedule a power on at a specific time? idk what the fuck your talking about
>>106807522You're being retarded a second time now instead of just googling it, dumbass
>>106807536post a single example of a mobo allowing this
>>106807536i did,its called wake on RTC i guess, i have never seen this used in real life thats why im confused
>>106807546Reboot your pc right now, enter bios settings and see it for yourself you're now a third grade retard, when did this board get overrun with morons?
>>106807569you are literally the only person on /g/ who knows or needs this
>>1068075754th grade retard holy shit you just can't stop being a slow faggot, can you?
>>106807370yeah, its more like 15 years
>>106807596why should i use this over WoL you fucking boomer retard
>>106807569When nvidia et al started marketing to retards who buy $4000 PC's as shelf displays.
>>106807136I've never had to replace one and I have a spare PC that is 14 years old
>>106807601Quintuple down on being a retard holy shit how low can you go? No one cares if you use wol since you still need another device turned on to send the magic packet but because you're a retarded kid who just keep doing mental gymnastics to not have a 3032 on the mobo without any benefit whatsoever
>>106807630>your le retarded kidi work in IT for almost 15 years and never in my life have i hear some use wake o RTCname literally 1 use case for this shit, and ofc i have 3 devices that can send a magic pocket ot my PC on my network
>>106807655I don't have to justify myself to you fucking sixtuple imbreed retard, your anecdotal evidence of not knowing a basic mobo function because you tinker with your family computers its hilarious
>>106807689>basic mobo functionits so basic that no one even knows it exists, kill yourself fadora wearing faggot
>>106807136more important:behind it there is another cpu is that the ime or psp??
>>106807136Do you want to set your clock and bios settings every time you lose power momentarily?Do you want your PSU's transformer running 24/7 just to provide 1.2V a trickle of power?
>>106807694lmao just because (you) didn't know it you think no one else knew it? What a pretentious septuple retarded egotistical little faggot you are jesus christ this board is dead
>>106807708Southbridge, indeed it has the ime/psp functionalities that Intel and AMD implements.
>>106807747that's Jesus Christ to you.
>>106807689>family computersthis nigga thinks its 2002
>>106807546like my asus prime b450 plus? literally a generic 100€ low end mobo from 2017my h81m-k also had it
>>106807708>what is a chipsetretard
>>106807392>let's not make the internet a hard dependency for a computer to run, thanksraspberry pi works just fine without a battery. also works without internet but you have to set the time yeah
>>106807471But that only works when power is actually connected (ATX PSUs do supply a little power even when they're "turned off") where you don't need a battery.
>>106807386They are. All BIOSes from the last 20 years write changes to NVRAM. If popping the battery resets everything, it's because the board detected the battery was gone and then actively chose to wipe it. But most of them don't even do that anymore.
Have the CMOS run from a supercapacitor that's recharged every time power is applied to the motherboard. The Dreamcast did something similar.
>>106807966a coin cell is cheaper...and can easily be replaced.
If you leave a pc turned off for a very long time you can come back to a depleted battery. Solar panels could work.
>>106807966Supercap self-discharge pretty quickly.The battery will last ten years without power.
>>106807986a supercap could power the RTC for months tho
>>106807999a coin cell is under 10 cents on aliexpress, for 60 pieces. a supercap is 2-5 bucks. supercap is just retarded, it's also soldered.
>>106807982This, what the hell are people smoking asking for a solution for a nonexistent problem.
>>106807370you're right, its more like every 20 years
>>106808052look man i just dont want a cheap chink battery in my PCits not the 70s anymore... its time to leave this ancient technology behind
>>106807370true, mine served me 15 years.
>>106808067replace it with the most expensive one you can find. you can literally do that
>>106807983>If you leave a pc turned off for a very long time you can come back to a depleted battery.Yeah if you leave it disconnected from ac mains for 20 years
>>106807999The voltage would drop very quickly under what's needed to run the RTC,So you'd have to use a higher voltage supercap and then have an extra regulator.Instead you could just use a 3V coin cell that gives you a pretty stable voltage for a long time.
>>106807983If you have a glass panel pc you could just put a tiny solar panel on top of the battery.>Solar panels can generate electricity through glass, but their efficiency is significantly reduced due to light transmission limitations.
>>106807966How fast will a 100F cap precharged to 5V discharge down below 1V with an average load current of 1uA?You should be able to solve this
>>106808129What exact cap? Where's the datasheet with its discharge curves and ESR values?
>>106808129>So an ideal 100 F capacitor precharged to 5 V, discharged by a constant 1 µA, will drop below 1 V in roughly 4.0×10^8 s ≈ 12.7 years.now what?
>>106808067if only you knew how much old shit is still in there, maybe an ipad is more your style
>>106807136You could keep system time with a pendulum
>>106808172ESR not included
>>106808174yes ipads have much higher build quality and better technology in them than your average chink mobo, whats your point exactly?
>>106808183why would i need a battery to keep system time when my OS syncs the time over the internet as soon as it boots?
>>106808190you should buy the apple mac mini then i don't think it has a rtc pos in there AI answer says this:>The Mac mini M4 does not use a CR2032 battery for its RTC (real-time clock). Instead, it relies on a different internal battery system, and the specific details about its RTC battery are not typically user-replaceable.
>>106808239>not user-replaceableAPPLE INNOVATION
idiots complaining about it will get the socket removed and have soldered battery instead. and a higher price because *innovation*
>>106807601WoL is a broken piece of shit that doesn't work half the time though.
>>106808246you WILL buy a new mac before it becomes a problem due to it not running the latest and safest mac os anyway.
>>106808239what does it use? magic stones?
>>106808261>Details: Modern Apple silicon Macs (including recent Mac mini models) use integrated power-management and non‑volatile timekeeping (PMIC/firmware-backed RTC) and store system settings in NVRAM without a separate motherboard coin cell. Apple’s Mac mini M4 documentation and teardown reports show no accessible CR2032 holder. If you need a persistent clock or NVRAM reset instructions, say so and I’ll provide steps.so says gpt5 with deep search
>>106808215For cases when there's no network connection, but then you could use time signals like nist/gts ig
>>106808300>For cases when there's no network connectionname one that happened in the last 20 years?
>>106808300they should implement it over mobile networks, they have good coverage and computer would only need minimal hardware to sync the time, no tx only rx.
>>106808311esim on the mobo, there you go, great for remote attestation and management too!
>>106808324ye becomes fishy when tx is also possible
>>106808311a radio clock receiver is a million times simpler than a 4g modem
>>106808346>radio clock receiveryeah what standard? mobos sell on the whole planet
>>106808354different regions also use different 4g frequencies
>>106808374just use 5g then 4head
>>106808279so it runs on goysm forskin?
>>106808386shit coverage in most rural areas
>modern technology cant replace a simple 2032 batteryand they say we are gonna be on Mars by 2030 LOL
>>106808239>>106808279It's likely a cap just to save from intermittent disconnects, if it's even thata mac is pretty much always on with sleep modes being preferred over any power off state, it's why the button is at the bottom, it's meant to be tuned on once and left connected forever with power being OS controlled.If for some reason the power is cut for long enough, like literally everything else without a true RTC it just contacts an NTP server.
>>106808306I don't know if you've moved in the last 20 years or changed isp
>>106807465
>the battery lasts many yearsI know that a PlayStation isn’t a pc, but Sony has had troubles with this in the past. You have to disassemble the entire PS4 or PS5 console to get to the battery. There was also some PSN trophy exploit using the battery. Some people still want to use their old consoles. They fixed this in the PS5 Pro.https://youtu.be/qs1gzpXSl0Uhttps://youtu.be/jHAOhaezU_E
>>106808419It can, it just means changing parts of a motherboard that have been the same for literally decades.
>>106808476>You have to disassemble the entire PS4 or PS5 console to get to the battery.that seems like a malicious compliance problem, if they wanted to they absolutely could give you a little slot to open on the bottom or something to access it
Rechargeable CMOS batteries used to be commonplace in the early 90s. Almost every single one eventually leaked and destroyed the computer. You don't know how good the CR2032 is by comparison. Industrial computers now use supercaps in addition to the coin cell, so even if the battery is completely dead you can still maintain the settings for a few days.
>>106807136>battery mobo problemThere is no problem. It's both the cheapest and longest lasting way to keep the time when the power's off>but it will leakNot since they switched to CR2032s>just use supercapsMore expensive and will probably fail before the battery runs out>just use the internetNot always available, and often not from boot>what about radioRegional, requires dedicated hardware + antenna>what about cell towersSee above two>just use betavoltaic or other obscure energy harvesting methodMore expensive
>>106807655buddy it's true you're a retard. sorry you have to learn the hard way.
>>106807136could be worse, my GPU blocks the access to my 2nd NVMe SSD
I would be okay with a super capacitor that can hold charge for about a week, but I want my bios settings to be saved to rom or something, right now anyone can reset a bios password by simply removing the battery which makes it pointless
>>106807403I don't. I remove the wifi card from my librebooted thinkpad while at home and exclusively connect via public wifi on my temporary virtual machine running entirely on tempfs using tor-browser via i2p.
>>106809558Resetting the BIOS will clear the TPM which would lose the key to your encrypted drive and you would then need a recovery key to access the data or it's just gone forever.
>>106807270None of the motherboards I ever had had a working battery.Luckily default BIOS settings were acceptable because that would be extremely annoying to deal with otherwise.
>>106807136More like why the fuck don't they put those things in microwaves and ovens? Stop making me set the time reeeee
Honestly, the coin cell battery is fine.
>>106809978Unless you're cutting power completely to the computer each time you shut down, that battery isn't even being used. I've seen these things far exceed 10 years.
>>106809933No you retard. That's stored in NVRAM.
>>106807136Why fix what's not broken
>>106808306When you're connected via wifi.Even just regularly booting up it'll take a while before the wifi is actually connected but the OS still needs to write files with file creation/modification metadata in them in addition to event logs, so it needs a date of some kind and without a functional RTC it'll end up defaulting to something like Jan 1st 1980. For desktops this same issue applies if the other end of your wired ethernet isn't hooked up online, for example due to a modem crash or a cable failure.In addition laptops and such are regularly booted before they're connected to wifi, for example in public places or when an office changes their wifi password.
>>106807403You just leave the ethernet cable unplugged...
>>106808466>t.
>>106807370yeah he's lyingI have machines that are 20y+ old and the battery is still working fine
>>106810535>No, a CR2032 battery cannot be expected to last 20 years; its typical shelf life is about 5 to 10 years when stored correctly, while its usage life in a device varies significantly, ranging from years in very low-power applications like computer motherboards to only a few years in intermittent-use devices like key fobs.
>>106810546I don't care what an "AI" told you anon. I have computers that are older than you and never had to replace a battery
>>106807270its ewaste
>>106810385>but the OS still needs to write files with file creation/modification metadata in them in addition to event logs,In my experience the RTC will default to some time slightly before the PC was made and before you even have a chance to open anything it's already set by the OS.Even then IDK what OS would actually freak out if the RTC was set back a few decades. Some logs having the wrong date is irrelevant
>t. zoomer hates the zoomer-removerLmao
>>106810580>in my head laws of physics dont mattertake your meds schizo
>>106810580https://www.henlimax.com/How-long-does-a-cr2032-battery-last.html
>>106810626>a motherboard’s CMOS battery—which draws minimal current (≈3μA) to maintain BIOS settings—can last 5–10 yearsRTC chips usually draw less than 1µA, no motherboard uses the battery to maintain BIOS settings anymore.
>>106807325even better, a dallas chip, the kind with RTC and an embedded battery that is an absolute pain to replace when it dies
>>106807370Yes. I have never seen a 10 year old motherboard with a dead bios battery. It holds charge at least 20 years
>>106810763>>106810897fucking retards, after 20 years the battery chemistry physical deteriorates, even if you didn't use the batterystop making shit up fucking morons, your like those stupid kids in the playground that claim some retard facts
>>106810918You have never seen an old motherboard? These batteries leaks before they get to fully discharge. That is why some cheap motherboards nowadays comes with the battery soldered right to the board.
>>106810592the whole mobo would become timed ewaste with a soldered modern solution
>>106810980>hese batteries leaks before they get to fully discharge. That is why some cheap motherboards nowadays comes with the battery soldered right to the board.what? I've literally never seen a cr bat leak, the old soldered one that were on older PCs did leak though
>>106810980>These batteries leaks before they get to fully dischargeThis was a problem with old soldered barrel batteries (fucking varta), but not really an issue with a CR2032
Should be enough for a few years without power or?
>>106811548solder it right under the GPU pcie slot and i'm all in
>>106811455so make a non-soldered modern solutionstop thinking so one dimensionally
>>106811669it's not modern if the user sees yucky connectors though
>>106811701says who
>>106810592>>106811669>>106811701ST SNAPHAT RTCs have existed for 25 years, chip is soldered while battery and quartz crystal is on a separate package that clicks on top of the chip
>>106811701die
>>106807136Why not just leech the energy of the radio waves? We have the tech.
>>106811468Here you go, batteries from ~91-92.
>>106807386>Why can't BIOS settings be stored on a simple flash chip?It is, nowadays. Has been like that for over a decade at least.The battery is still required for the internal watch on the motherboard. In case you turn off the computer and unplug it from the wall, the computer still manages to keep track of date and time thanks to it.The internal watch is necessary because while computers sync the date/time online, you also need certificates that rely on date/time for validation and without them you can't even connect depending on how the OS is set up.
>>106807403People who have a need to use an airgapped device
My CMOS died so I just removed it and never replaced it. I didn't notice any difference whatsoever. Default BIOS settings work fine. What am I missing?
>>106808239AI is wrong, the M4 mini uses a CR2032.https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac+mini+(2024)+CMOS+Battery+Replacement/180194
>>106808279>>106808436see >>106813868/g/ is so fucking retarded it hurts.
>>106813875>defends apple ishit>calls others retardedstreet shit harder ipoojeet
>>106812833Luckily my OS isn't botnet and it only needs NTP protocol which requires no certs and no encryption to get actual time.
>>106807370Agreed, it's closer to 20-25 years.
Since this is a battery thread... Saw this minutes ago on an open laptop by the IT department at work. Just how the fuck does this happen, water damage?
>>106815323Looks to me like rust from something else stuck to the batteryMaybe something like electroplating
>>106813868Hilarious. Imagine being retarded enough to believe AI bullshit.
>>106807136>the battery mobo problemWhat problem?
>>106810580my system is vintage 2016 or so and still has the original battery showing no corrosion, i looked at it last week when i was blowing dog hair out of the system.>quality stuff in my old HP workstation>runs 24/7 mostly
>>106815323>>106815356it's probably some sort of goo oozed out by a human that worked it's way past the keyboard>32 years in IT here>crusty laptops are nothing new>use gloves kids - it's less icky that way
>>106815566its pretty fucken sad that Apple in their infinite courage and wisdom still rely on that depreciated shit
>>106808183A pendulum needs a power source otherwise it stops.>>106808944That's what Nintendo did with the Wii and Wii U.
>>106816161kek>so then anon go ahead and give us a better design>don't forget to show your work to the class
>>106807708there are motherboards without chipset on it, like a300stx. They work because CPUs are SoC now.
>>106807453>costs several times more than the rest of the computer
>>106816212>there are motherboards without chipset on it, like a300stx.which has a CMOS battery on it's backside. also the rest of your statement is nonsensical, whats SoC got to do with CMOS batteries anon?
>>106816224and there you have the reason why we dont use them!
>>106816239follow the conversation dude, he was replying to someone asking about the chipset>behind it there is another cpu is that the ime or psp??
>>106809284
all these battery apologists in the thread are making me fucking sick/g/ has fallen
>>106807347I can't keep them around, otherwise I will eat them all in one sitting
>>106807136are there really people here with no hardware knowledge? have you ever even been employed in IT?
>>106807136The solution is for you PC to automatically connect to time.gov and reset the time each time it reboots. This poses some small privacy and security problems though.
Never had problem with this but I rarely keep a mobo more than 7 years. What's the symptom the battery goes bad?
>>106817960BIOS goes to default settings every time you boot
>>106807386so what happens when retards start digging a hole and cut my internet cable (happened a few times)
>>106807136it lasts 5 years ussualyIf you want to forget it completely buy a lipo one from aliexpress that will lasts 30 years, maybe an adaptor too
>>106807370More like 67 years
>>106807270I upgraded from a Gigabyte 890GPA-UD3H mobo bought in 2010 just last year and the BIOS battery was still working fine.
>>106807336>>Let's replace a simple and effective solution with an internal lithium exploding pillowHas a manufacturer done this yet? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a thing, or becomes a thing.
>>106821813Nope, nothing ever happens.
>>106807744>Do you want your PSU's transformer running 24/7 just to provide 1.2V a trickle of power?nta but...your psu transformer is already delivering 5V to your computer all the time through the 5VSB rail which is already used for a bunch of different things (e.g. wake on lan, powering specific usb devices while the computer is off), plus i'm pretty sure without it the power button would literally not work so yeah.
>>106822148>which is already used for a bunch of different things and of course i forgot the most important of them all...to literally power the RTC, which is the whole point you're makingthe hypotetical scenario you're making is literally how it has always worked, the cmos battery is only required to keep settings and time/date while the computer is unplugged from the walli'm switching my nta to "complete fucking retard kys", dunno why I hadn't considered this.
>>106821833how did elong get away with it brehs. when he does it, it's a breakthrough technology but when I do it it's an illegal torture device and a murder charge??
>>106807370I last changed my watch battery in 2008
>>106823447Teslas have manual releases, with some vehicles being pretty obvious enough to be mistaken as the actual door handle.It's skill issue in the end.
>>106807370works on my machine
>>106807136> Simple> Cheap> Effective and works for over a decadeain't nothing wrong with it that needs fixing.
>>106807370decent quality ones will last 10 years easy. literally-who chinese brands maybe only a few years
>>106810546he didn't say one should expect it to last 20 years, only that they can
>>106807555All of our pos computers have it set for 5:00 am...
>>106807655We turn off most devices and lights in our store when we close. To make the opening process smoother, things are set to automatically turn on, and we use the wake on rtc to facilitate this. I assume most coporate or bigger stores don't care about power use and just keep everything running all the time.
>>106807136>lasts for 40 years in your path
>>106807336>internal lithium exploding pillowWhat's funny is that those coin cells actually have metallic lithium inside of them, which is kinda explosive while Li-Ion batteries just have relatively harmless lithium salts inside them (it's the electrolyte (a highly flammable solvent) that causes fires, not the lithium)
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