>>106910741
I think Laravel is good enough to run basic but solid front end projects, you can manage Js too without having to add anything else. I hope it stays relevant without getting too hyped, afterall PhP is still fundamental for the web.

>>106910797
my php noscoper frens do hex architecture with php, sounds dope

>>106910741
>Rails
What went wrong?

>>106910741
I really like Ruby and for some reason every time I use unless and every time I use an if function that ends with ? I feel extremely comfy, it just feels right.
But Ruby is terribly slow or so I heard.

>>106910741
TLV
TRD

>>106910838
Nothing, it's great, people just want shiny new toys

>>106910838
>other frameworks copy Rails
>prospect of not having to deal with Ruby

>>106910838
nothing.
that's a normal trendline. rails got their fifteen minutes of fame.

>>106911246
rails scored 100 once.
rails + other frameworks add up to like 70.
so that explanation is lacking.

>>106910838
DHH

>>106911027
nothing says shiny than a 14 year old framework taking over

>>106910741
based. fuck ruby, fuck rails.

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Every time I see Ruby on Rails I am reminded that this disgusting freak exists.

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What the fuck is a framework?
Just write your website in notepad like God intended.

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I'm so fucking bad when it comes to making a UI/themes, i spent hours looking at my pages and ended up not doing anything. I started reading UI styling guides and looking at other pages, I don't usually care about their designs but when I do I get so nit-picky that I end up realizing i just don't like any page on the world wide web
Is this how it ends? Few months of making a back-end, few weeks of creating front just to fail at styling the way my data will be displayed? Its so over

>>106912234
just give it a simple enough style, copy it from somewhere, that doesn't look horrendous and looks complete and finished, after that you can iterate, but you'll have something "done"

>>106911629
>What the fuck is a framework?
Something which improves web dev

I will answer your AWS and SQL questions until my cold brew is done spinning.
>what should i read to learn more?
Don’t. Build.
>sell me on using AWS instead of a VPS
I’m not a salesman and you didn’t give me a use case.

>>106911402
>first thing more popular than better things that had to compete

>>106910838
It is slow

Is vite still the way to go for react shit

>>106911574
typhoid coraline did irreparable damage to the ruby community

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Larachads rise up

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>>106910838
It went off the rails

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God I want to get out of the 9-5 hellscape and bringing money for my CEO and Board overlords BUT I JUST DONT HAVE ANY FUCKING IDEA WHAT TO BUILD.

Its like everything is already done be it web, mobile or whatever the fuck.
At this point i'd even do a GPT wrapper for "easy money" but those also are in the millions right now.
The worst part is I could build whatever the fuck I want but I just don't know what.

>Inb4 just make a better version of xyz
Ye I am sure as a one man army I will do a better job than 100 pajeets working daily for 10 hours on Instagram or Youtube

>>106916208
Stop thinking, start building. Just build something. Anything. If it doesn't work out, build something else.

Thinking about the perfect idea gets you nowhere.

>>106916333
You're saying "go gamble," but that's terrible advice.

>>106916208
There's some room for an app that let's people share claude code/w.e agent sessions with multiple people. So that the intern can take over shepherding the codegen after senior dev makes up the specification.
Flipside is that OpenAI/Google already tried (codex/jules), and it failed.

>>106916381
>"go gamble"
It's called "take risks". Analysis paralysis isn't going to make you rich

>>106913010
>AWS
It's very expensive.

>>106916208
Build a porn filter moderator

I'm against React because every project at some point runs into complicated hydration issues that never ever get fixed because "not worth the time".

>>106916208
>>106916381
Another idea: a chatgpt wrapper that tells people what to do to shill their project. Lots of projects die because the dev doesn't do the marketing part. E.g. SEO/socials are not something the average hobby dev takes advantage of.
The nice part is that you'll know if the thing works, since you can dogfood it.

>got the idea
>got the protorype
>got no time
welp, maybe later, as for now I rather focus on increasing my paycheck

>>106912723
HTMX proved this wrong

>>106916208
Stop thinking about useful or valuable things and start considering fun, enjoyable, but ultimately useless ideas.

>>106916672
htmx is dogshit, everybody knows this

>>106916672
HTMX is a stupid fucking meme (in my humble opinion). Real web devs write JS/TS.

just used ts generic types the other day, cool shit, but the docs could be way clearer 2bh

>>106917156
TSX is the way

>>106916208
And yet these hands will never build anything

>>106916672
>>106917156
HTMX is good but fixi.js is better.
https://github.com/bigskysoftware/fixi

React is too complicated and slow. It's a lot faster to send and render HTML directly than sending JSON that is then rendered to HTML using JS in the browser. And you always run into issues using React but it's the industry standard so people will still use it.

How do I place a button in the same place regardless of screen dimensions? Chat GPT failed me.

>>106918202
Display: fixed to bind it to the viewport. Or display absolute with a parent on display relative to bind it to the parent coords. Then use top/bottom/left/right

>>106918202
define "same place regardless of screen dimension", in the meantime % values might be just what you want

>>106916208
this was a banger of a blogpost if you want some build fuel
https://www.geoffreylitt.com/2025/07/27/enough-ai-copilots-we-need-ai-huds

>>106916208
Alternative to Autodesk BIM bullshit. Just managing to do "Electrical" or "Hydraulic" projects without going trhough autodesk, and being compatible with their bullshit will earn you a medal.

just told codex to refactor my whole project and make it better
*dabs*

>>106916208
wagies have no imagination
they don't daydream about abstract ideas
they just dream about owning a house or something idk
they are cynical and constantly stressed
first step is to realize that this is not a state that is conducive to what you want to achieve
>inb4 but muh chicken or the egg
not my problem

>>106919796
It's not just wagies with this issue.
I'm a neet, and in social scenarios my mind goes absolute blank. It's disturbing, like being locked out of my ability to think.

>>106910838
Ruby syntax just sucks.

>>106911574
Isn't this the guy who threw a tantrum and forced multiple projects to adopt a CoC?

>>106918732
isn't that what solidworks is for?

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I discovered that you can get pixel-crisp font rendering if you just use Japanese fonts. this is 'MS PGothic'

>>106920516
japanese svgs optimized for small screens folded a thousand times

>>106917174
>the docs could be way clearer 2bh
I swear this could be said about 90% of the web related shit

SOLID is for retards who can't think for themselves.
Thank you for your attention to this matter!

>>106920933
one dude told me about it, he was top tier programmer, way ahead of me

>>106920516
I like anti-aliasing though

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for those of you who are on the more professionally experience side, what's your take on abstractions/libraries/prebuilt vs creating your own?
I know rolling your own security if you're not battle hardened is advised against, anything else?

>>106920516
Ok I did some more research: browsers ignore bitmap information in fonts if that font is not installed natively on the system. So if you serve a ttf file from your server, no crisp fonts. However, if the font IS installed locally, it will pass through bitmap info and display crisp. Japanese fonts have a lot of bitmap info I guess

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You DO use the king of editors, right /wdg/?
>Very lightweight, unlike Electron garbage
>Cross-platform
>Tons of extensions including language servers

>>106923042
After all these years, it's still the best

>>106923042
copilot though?

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>>106923042
i do

>>106922359
With your own libraries you're just wasting time on creating and maintaining them in addition to doing actual work. With 3rd party libraries you can focus on your actual work.
If you want to reinvent the wheel you need to have a very, very good reason for it. Or you need to be working on a very minimalist product where maintenance will never be a huge issue.

>>106923169
makes perfect sense, I guess that's what makes node not so trustworthy and C# and spring more trustworthy, does it make sense? I mean "dangerous" libraries

Is it in poor taste to host your website on GitHub for free? Is this looked down upon in the professional sphere? Is there a better option?

>>106923841
Almost nobody cares. But you can also just buy a domain name for $5-$15/year and just make it direct to your github page.

>>106923191
NPM is a cesspool because of its popularity.
In a certain way it acts like Jupiter by using its gravitational pull to protect the rest of the ecosystem from the retards and bad faith actors
Regardless, if you're using few and popular packages, and you're not trying to run a nuclear power plant, or financial services, i don't think it makes any difference, the biggest security risk is still you committing the keys by mistake

>>106922359
use the standard library of your language.

>>106923191
csharp is a language, node is a language runtime, spring is a framework. there's nothing to compare to.

>>106920933
solid's signals are a revolution that enable real reactivity.
vue and svelte already picked up signals.

>>106923042
electron blasphemy in /wdg/ makes no sense.
electron enables webdevs to write desktop apps.

>>106923158
Do you use emac for frontend? care to share?

>>106923893
Okay, cool, that's what I've been doing. It's so much cheaper.

>>106920516
Oh I use that and MS Gothic a lot
>>106922430
>browsers ignore bitmap information in fonts if that font is not installed natively on the system
Damn what a shame, I didn't know that. I guess your best bet is to use MS (P) Gothic in that case because that's installed on all Windows machines with some kind of dot font as a fallback.

>>106910838
It’s still very good but Django and Laravel more or less have feature parity with it by now, and everybody already knows Python so newbies see no reason to learn Ruby. I prefer all three to backend TS though. Phoenix is king

>>106910838
The web lives and breathes JavaScript from 2015 onwards. I dunno how much more there is to it. Maybe a lot

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>>106924381
There's another thing called Tauri which is meant to be much more lightweight because it renders your app using a web engine already built into the operating system. Their docs say that the front-end of your app would be written in HTML/CSS/JS while you can write a back-end using Rust, but maybe it's possible to only write JS code if you want, I dunno.

https://github.com/tauri-apps/tauri

I am going to make a web framework. Should I make it in golang or some other lang? LLMs are pretty gucchi at golang

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>>106927844
Why do you want to make ANOTHER framework when you're not even sure which language to use?

>>106927844
go is not expressive enough for frameworks (primitive type system) and go's community hates frameworks anyways

>>106928016
Name one movie

>>106928016
Yeah, I only have an idea of how it should work. I'm thinking a little like htmx, but rather than retarded "hx-target" garbage that inevitably turns into spaghetti.

func (x model) MyPage(...) {
  return body(
     div(x.content)
     button({OnClick: x.increment})
  )
}
[/body]

That'd be the TEA model, I just need to figure out how to autowire the server/client endpoints (like react server components or tRPC does).

Thanks for coming to by ted talk

>>106928068
fml had brain death with the ending code tag

>>106928050
Problem Child 2 (1991)

>>106928068
I see

>>106928068
so like a worse version of rail's hotwire?

>>106911027
ruby syntax is pure crap

>>106928307
>getting filtered by trivial syntax

>>106928307
t. Guido van Rossum

>>106927844
>>106928024
I think I'll use rust instead, because I think it'll work better with cloudflare workers. Never written a line of rust before, though.

>>106928295
I've not used hotwire, but I don't see how my thing is even close to hotwire. That's more like the spaghetti that I'm trying to avoid. And my shit's definitely not doing websocket updates, I live for serverless.

>>106928365
>I think I'll use rust instead, because I think it'll work better with cloudflare workers. Never written a line of rust before, though.
so like a worse version of hono?

>I've not used hotwire, but I don't see how my thing is even close to hotwire. That's more like the spaghetti that I'm trying to avoid. And my shit's definitely not doing websocket updates, I live for serverless.
there's no spaghetti. all the logic is in one place and rails has strong conventions where that place is. nor is websockets mandatory.

>>106928419
The examples literally put the dom in a different file, like it's year 2000. That's the most spaghetti move you can make

>>106928443
mvc frameworks having a separated view is not spaghetti but a well established architecture

>>106928463
Obsoleted architecture, and obsoleted because it turned spaghetti.

>>106928476
you know exactly where something is. it's the opposite of spaghetti.

>>106928519
You want to modify a feature and have to touch 15 different files. The industry rejected this strategy years ago.

>>106928532
let's hear your architecture.
where's the data fetching?

>>106928564
It'll follow the elm architecture for components, the difficult part is how I wire everything up so it works like magic (i.e. no hx-target shit. Components are self-contained like in react).
I'm chatting it up with gpt right now, I don't know yet

>>106928573
if react components are self-contained what are hooks for?

>>106928658
Putting hooks elsewhere is optional, for sharing code.

>>106928573
>the difficult part is how I wire everything up so it works like magic
why's that needed? do everything server-side or do everything client-side.

>>106928731
Well I don't want to return a whole new page each time. Like htmx let's you update just a fragment of the page.
I want to abstract away the targeting of the updates.

>>106928743
why are you switching between react and htmx? react is spa. htmx is mpa. htmx cannot do client-side routing.
so what's it going to be? spa or mpa?

>>106928809
Those are examples. It's MPA.
For the increment button example I showed before, the app will make a fetch request to a backend endpoint that I need to manage (think tRPC), the result will be updated to the dom by some JS glue.
I don't see how I could do that all server side without refreshing the page.

>>106928841
>I don't see how I could do that all server side without refreshing the page.
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/View_Transition_API

>>106928878
Yeah but it's not supported on ff and can go take a shit. And sending back the whole dom tree on every update is no good.

>>106928841
the current best serverless mpa framework is deno's fresh.
https://fresh.deno.dev/
which features are you missing?

>>106927832
>which is meant to be much more lightweight because it renders your app using a web engine already built into the operating system
So let me rephrase that. Which is meant to be much more lightweight because it offers zero compatibility guarantees by trying to run your code on whatever the fuck the OS has installed in ${currentYear}.
>but maybe it's possible to only write JS code if you want, I dunno
I checked it out before, and it really didn't seem like that was the case. The entire fucking premise of forcing Rust for this is retarded. I should be able to write the backend using JS and use a JS frontend framework like with Electron.
It's mind boggling to me how nobody cares to solve this problem.

the joys of designing the perfect fucking form.
I feel like I just blankly stare at a screen for hours and nothing materializes. I honestly wish there were good WYSIWYG editors.

>>106929203
What kinda question is that

>>106929520
True that. Although gpt5 will oneshot em these days so it ain't such a big dealio.

>>106929526
the only saving grace in modern css is grid exists. makes a lot of shit I use to tweak autistically a lot easier.

>>106929380
>Which is meant to be much more lightweight because it offers zero compatibility guarantees by trying to run your code on whatever the fuck the OS has installed in ${currentYear}.
If someone keeps their operating system up to date then they should have a pretty modern browser engine as part of their OS. Edge's Chromium-based engine on Windows, Safari's engine on MacOS, and WebKitGTK on Linux, which should be similar to Safari I guess.
>I checked it out before, and it really didn't seem like that was the case. The entire fucking premise of forcing Rust for this is retarded. I should be able to write the backend using JS and use a JS frontend framework like with Electron.
What kind of code did you want to write that you couldn't use JS for? Anyway. I guess Electron does allow people to write desktop apps just using JS, but Electron apps are so fucking bloated and take noticeably longer to launch than regular apps.

>>106930608
>If someone keeps their operating system up to date then
the browser engine I developed the software for and tested the software on will eventually change, introducing compatibility issues. All the user will see is how "this piece of shit program stopped working." Meanwhile, I can literally double click on the icon of the first version of VS Code (released 10 years ago) right now, and it will literally just work on my Windows machine.
>What kind of code did you want to write that you couldn't use JS for?
Literally anything that requires something more than rendering stuff in a webview I suppose. Like, I'm not touching Rust, I want to write the backend in JS and utilize Node libraries
>Electron apps are so fucking bloated and take noticeably longer to launch than regular apps.
And nobody other than autistic neckbeards (who aren't your primary audience anyway) gives a damn because it just work, as mentioned above. It is a tradeoff, of course, but I think it's well worth it. You can even take very well written and responsive Electron apps like VSCode, and autists will still seethe about it. Normal people are happy they get cross-platform apps that just work, and devs are happy they avoid the native development humiliation ritual.

>>106923042
Thing should've died years ago now that we have vscode and fleet.

>>106923841
Nobody really cares. As long as you have a website. It's actually smart to use free tools which are available to you, saving you costs.

>>106927844
Make it in C#. Aspnet sucks and we need more C# web frameworks which aren't total garbage.

>>106928307
tryth nyke

>>106930817
>the browser engine I developed the software for and tested the software on will eventually change, introducing compatibility issues. All the user will see is how "this piece of shit program stopped working."
Why do you think that? Old web pages still work in new browsers.
>Literally anything that requires something more than rendering stuff in a webview I suppose. Like, I'm not touching Rust, I want to write the backend in JS and utilize Node libraries
Some NPM packages will run in a browser context right?
>And nobody other than autistic neckbeards (who aren't your primary audience anyway) gives a damn because it just work, as mentioned above. It is a tradeoff, of course, but I think it's well worth it. You can even take very well written and responsive Electron apps like VSCode, and autists will still seethe about it. Normal people are happy they get cross-platform apps that just work, and devs are happy they avoid the native development humiliation ritual.
Normies will probably think "why is this app so fucking slow" even if they have no idea what an Electron app is.

>>106930936
>Thing should've died years ago now that we have vscode and fleet.
VS Code is bloat. I haven't tried Fleet to be honest.

>>106930936
>>106930988
Fleet's already deprecated, it got rebranded to AIR (AI something).

>>106930988
Normies are even fine with fucking discord and twitter doe

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>>106925635
I did some scripting, and these are the fonts I found natively on Windows which have bitmaps encoded in them, and their respective bitmap sizes

Courier New (TrueType)
     2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 6, 6, 8, 7, 8, 9, 7, 8, 10, 10, 8, 10, 11, 
MS Gothic & MS UI Gothic & MS PGothic (TrueType)
     7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 
SimSun & NSimSun (TrueType)
     8, 10, 10, 12, 12, 13, 
SimSun-ExtB (TrueType)
     12, 12, 14, 14, 

Some others have bitmaps encoded at 0 height so I didn't include them. I've not found bitmaps to work on courier new at all, at any size. SimSun-ExtB also doesn't appear to work. MS Gothic, MS UI Gothic, and MS PGothic appear to be slight variants on the same sans-serif font, each with a different width. These seem to all be Japanese fonts. SimSun seems to be a serif font.

Here's a jsfiddle - you can check how the fonts look on your system

https://jsfiddle.net/yzpqov46/7/

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>>106931321
>Courier New
I didn't know wit had embedded bitmaps, because they sure as hell don't show up anywhere. The original Courier font had bitmaps only, but Microsoft removed it from Windows.

MS Gothic is a monospaced Japanese font, and the P version means proportional. There is also MS Mincho (MS 明朝) and MS PMincho, which are a serif version, and those also has bitmaps and are available on Windows by default regardless of locale. But I think if you only put the Japanese name in the CSS, it might not recognize it on non-JP locale.
SinSun and SimHei are Chinese fonts, but the latter doesn't seem to render bitmaps.

>>106931493
Didn't find Mincho installed on my system

>>106931629
Oh shit, you're right. I always assumed it would be the same as MS Gothic, but I just checked on my work PC and sure enough it's not there.