Or at least one that will last for decades.
The one where you buy a Pro drive from all 3 mfgs and put them in a raid1c2
>>106923834English mf, do you speak it?
>>106923550not going to happeneven the best enterprise drives on the market might last 10 years with irregular useand no just because you have a single 20 year old drive that still works thats not indicative of the whole because the failure rates increase exponentially with ageuse optical media or LTO for long term storage
>>106924227>use optical media or LTO for long term storageWhat do you recommend?
>>106924284Blu-ray-R if its not a ton of dataLTO is really only economical if you have 100s of TBs
>>106923550You want to buy a used drive. A known survivor that has been spinning for at least 5 years, preferably 10. All the weak drives have died at that point and only the best ones still survive.
>>106924564Interesting point, anon. Any marketplace for such used devices?
>>106924227I only own 4 HDD’s. The youngest of which is 9 years old and the oldest is 16 years old and they all work fine. I’ll pretty sure they last a lot longer than people think.
>>106924636there's a seller on ebay serverpartdeals or something . old datacenter drives. there's a guy on amazon who sells them also under the brand mdd. you can get them with 5yr warranties and since they're used they're cheaper. so get 3 and run them in a raid and for 5 years if any of them die you just get a new one for free.
>>106923550nonebut a top tier ssd might.
>>106924201He's saying to buy a pro drive from every brand and set it up so it writes and reads the same info to all three (He fucked up and said raid1c2 instead of raid1c3).The idea is that it's every manufacturer's best, and by buying from all of them it's unlikely every drive is from a bad batch, you can have two drives die before all data is gone (At the expense of only using one third of your combined capacity)
>>106924227>>106924353>LTO drives start at $6,000daily reminder /g/ just parrots shit they read and find interesting but have zero real world experience.
>>106924966I don't miss LTO and the 'robot' dropping tapes a few times a week. You can get "archival" grade optical media, but there's no guarantee it's anything special.
>>106924651brands?
>>106924966I don't even think it's practical to use LTO outside an automated tape library. Vendors want to certify the room. They don't just give you the $6k tape drive like it's a GPU and expect you know what to do with it.
>>106925848Why isn't LTO rental more of a widespread thing? I feel that there should be enough autistic /g/entoomen and redditors to charge like 20-30 bucks BYOT and make a decent profit
>>106925332They’re all seagate besides the ps4 HDD which is a Toshiba.
Idk i just upload my files to my google drive
>>106924900ssd's require power to keep the data for years, and cycling them with power just to "rejuvenate" the data is a high risk
>>106924227enterprise drives are build to last. 20 years are a cakewalk for them. the most risky moment of any drive is the first year. after that the first 5 years, after that you're good for at least 20.
>>106927294Isn’t it pretty dependent on use and conditions? Should I expect the drive that I bought new 5 years ago but barely used to be good to go for 20 years now? It hasn’t even seen probably a month of what most people would consider normal use.
>>106923550>What Hard Drive will outlast me?None unless you are a senior citizen or have terminal illness.
>>106924353>save your data on a blu-ray>30 years later blu-ray drives are no longer made>new hardware and software doesn't even recognize them>old hardware falling apart, no info to repair it and the few working parts left costing billionsgreat plan
>>106927546Ok so what do I do then? Do I need to construct a giant carbon fiber flywheel and imprint my data onto it like a massive self-powered record that can spin for hundreds of years or do I just need to accept defeat?
>>106927554CDs are a decent bet, the technology is fairly simple so as long as the CD lasts someone can pull out the data. Absolute worst case is someone can just look at the surface of the CD with a microscope. Depends how much data you're storing.
>>106927568Yeah dude let me just buy 5000 768mb CD’s.
>>106927322yes, assume it's running 24/7.if you only connect/disconnect it a few times a year for a few hours, you'll forever be in the most risky period of a drive.
>>106927568>CDs>for long term storageLOL retard
>>106927554you just need to move your data on newer devices as time goes>>106927568all optical media is getting shittier and it's getting phased out slowly
>>106927581I leave my HDD’s unplugged except when I need to use them, which is rarely these days. I guess I’m kind of in the worst case scenario so I’m surprised my drives have lasted so long.
>>106923550If you an hero tonight, then anything but a Seagate will do the job.
>>106927568My CD-Rs from 1998-2003 are failing. The top layer develops pinholes (probably from corrosion, I guess?) which exposes the ink layer and renders it unreadable. I wouldn't bank on CD/DVD. Keeping *MANY* copies of important data across different devices is the best strat for most people. Avoid NAND, because it bitrots over time (charge dissipates).
>>106927948My seagate from 2009 just tanked a few 500gb file transfers back to back np.
>>106923550Dunno I have two cheapo hard drives that lasted me for a decade. Last time I checked disk health it was "good" or something
>>106927981Look, there are always outliers. Have a gander at Backblaze's annual reports tho https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2024/
>>106927999Yeah idk man, all of my drives are older than most /g/ posters, I don’t know much about current HDD’s at all. Don’t all the new ones suck anyways because they use ssd controllers or something?
>>106928014If they have NAND cache then that's a definite lifetime constraint even if the spindle and heads are still good.There have always been good and bad drives, and it's the luck of the draw a lot of the time. Back in the 90s it was rare for me to find a used PC with a Seagate/Conner drive that wasn't dead on arrival. WDs kept going, and some still work now.Honestly that idea of a raid1c3 across disparate vendors isn't half bad...
>>106928014Also have very good luck with drives. My first drive from 1991 still works, it's seagate 120mb. Also have like 4-5 scsi drives from early to mid 90's, good as new. Some of those drives are in a machine that was working 24/7 for 20 years or so, IBM server.Most drive failures that I've seen where 2.5 drives in laptops but those live rough life.
>>106927972what brands? I have some old waitec playstation games that still work despite being poorly keptI think they're cyanine with golden top because they look dark green-ishthe old verbatims work too but not as well because their condition is even worse
>>106924227>optical media>long termlol, lmao even.A lot of my CD-Rs are doing just fine, but some of the older ones (20+ years old) have become unreadable.I've lost nothing important so far, but I'm sure I eventually will.
>>1069242013 diff manufacturer drives, in raidz2. Put it in a zfs filesystem with a certain configuration, at least that's what I think he meant.
>>106923550None, probably. Its like shoes, wear item, you need to keep buying them forever.
>>106928835You should be doing early updates on M discs anyway. then having daily backups for whatever you have thats extremely important snapshots to 2-3 different hdd/cloud or something.
>>106927546update to newest hardware? There will be another medium.
>>106927972why aren't you updating those CD-R's every year or two? I don't understand why you'd just let that shit just sit on a CD for so long even if it didn't have problems with failing.
>>106929028regular m-discs are all old stock and overpriced and blu-ray m-discs are kinda pointless
>>106926171Because they don't want your nasty tape gumming up their $6k drive. Rental tape library from cloud providers is very common, eg Amazon Glacier.
>>106929028M-Disc has been a scam 20 years longer than it was a real thing at this point.
>>106927276OP never mentioned he needs a drive for cold storage, but of course, the indian pajeet still using a shitty hdd as his boot drive has to point to the only slight downside an ssd has as copium.
>>106923550My stepdad had a dozen Toshiba drives and I spent time archiving it all after he died, so I can confirm that Toshiba HDDs will still work after people you die.
>>106927972I assume it's humidity? I live in a dry af place and never encountered these issues on old discs.
>>106929008raid1c# is btrfs nomenclature.>raidz2 with 3 drives.Erasure encoding with one data drive is worse than just running a 3 way mirror.
>>106923550Intel optane p4800x.
>>106929044because some people, including >>106924227 believe that optical media is suited for long term storage. nothing is 100% reliable. use whatever archival tools are the most convenient for you and keep at least 2 backups at all times. that is your best bet.
>>106926171There are quite a few companies that still offer tape leasing arrangements. You request tapes, they ship them to you, you load them and ship them back, they keep them in their controlled warehouse, possibly in an abandoned salt mine, and if you need it, you request it back. You pay some rate to store the taps, and pay an access fee every time they need to pull something to send it to you.It's less common than it used to be because internet bandwidth is much larger than it was 20 years ago. You can get multigig internet to a farm house in rural Nebraska these days, and that's rural bumfuck nowhere. Backing up a few dozen TB of data for a company paying for a beefy internet package takes less time than it does to ship tapes. That means tape has retreated to more and more niche industries and generally has been limited to some combination of>massive data scale. 100s of TB or peta/exabytes>Medical/legal stuff that needs auditable records going back decades>High security stuff that cannot be sent over the internet for regulatory reasonsNote that those industries get less and less cost conscious as you go down that list. High security government stuff pays 5 and 10x markups for stuff that is validated. The tapes will probably be encrypted, and may very well be sent with armed guards. On the other hand, if it's not crazy high security, it might be sent via registered mail. Low level secret stuff gets sent via USPS all the time.
>>106930799Oh, thanks for that senpai, I learnt something new today.
>>106930682It's just bad batches. I've always been anal about temp / humidity and still had writable media spontaneously rot in storage. HDD is the most reliable cold storage format for my money, and much easier to validate in non-trivial sizes.
Which good brand of HDD for 20TB?
>>106932125There are no good brands. Just buy ones that end in Pro or 5 year warranty enterprise models if you don't care about noise.
>>106923550it depends, are you vaxed?
>>106930954I know that model exists for businesses, I'm asking for the opposite targeted at (autistic) consumers: Rent out a drive and sell tapes, the customer is responsible for the safety of his tapes, if they want their data back, they rent out a drive again
>>106932358You don't represent a large enough revenue stream for these companies to care about. They want large companies with a specialist IT/sysadmin they interact with, and/or they want companies that will pay for consulting services during RTO windows.A random autistic loon is the exact opposite of what they want. Someone who /thinks/ they know a lot, likely doesn't, and who is going to have all kinds of niche requirements that may not be trivial to implement and/or will waste tons of support time trying to weasel around having to pay for stuff.
>>106932358There are a lot of backup companies which offer to ship HDDs as part of the service. Nobody wants to let you touch their tape drive at any level of remove unless you're under contract. Both drives and tape have to be stored in climate control to meet their cold storage specs, and they're very susceptible to fowling. The kind of tape you're thinking about died in the 90s.
>>106932643Let me rephrase: I'm not asking for an existing solution or for an existing company to offer a new solution, I'm wondering why some /g/entooman hasn't done it>>106932730>The kind of tape you're thinking about died in the 90sYou mean older formats like Ditto tape? Yeah, I know
>>106933647Because you don't represent a large enough revenue stream to care about. Retarded home sever LARPers will completely bankrupt any business trying to do this because if the prices are somehow made accessible, they will drown it out with their retardation, and if the prices are made profitable, nobody will buy it because neckbeard LARPers are too fucking cheap to buy these kinds of services.What is confusing about this?
>>106933647No I mean the kind of tape drive a regular dumbass could install in a their PC and use without wrecking it. Nobody does like what you're talking about because it would cost 80k to set up and lose a ton of money and data, and the techs from HPE would be riding your shoulder the entire time going 'dude this is fucking retarded'
>>106924201>reading comprehension is like, really hard, man.
>>106929367>>106929138doesn't really matter the point is doing new backups yearly.
With ddrescue (and it's map file) you merely need 2(3) mirrored HDDs at any given timeIt is exceptionally unlikely 2 drives corrupt the same data at the same time, you just need to know during normal operations that the data is correct, so strong checksums are important (md5+)Then just ddrescue onto a new good drive and bob is your uncleOnly problem is both drives dying or ze cyber pandemic, but if it is offline and only needs to last 20 years, 2 drives at any time works
>>106935561...on optical? Why? Is your village too poor for more than one hard drive?That's certainly not how the DoD used them or the advertised use case.
>>106936308I just use multiple media types to store data. What if your hdd dies or it gets wet? You have your yearly m-disc backup. Having varying media types for your backups seems like a good idea. I'd use tape or some shit if It was over priced and slow.
