>>106992032Every control and safety loop in the west has to be at least SIL2 or 3. That means a lot of very expensive and redundant components. Just a single SIL3 valve actuator combo for a nuclear plant is gonna be at least 30K a pop. Just look at Emerson's DeltaV PLCs to have your eyes explode from how much a single control system for a safety control loop would cost. Multiply it by reactor and turbine count and it gets insane. Not to mention the turbines themselves.t. I work in nuclear process control
>>106992032Because you can't cut cornersWell, you can, but that's how you end up with Chernobyl
>>106992032>US industry: private corporations>Chink industry: everything is owned by the CCPreally has me thinkin
I'm sorry but the US literally just can't compete with china at these energy prices (solar). If this happens the US is finished.
>>106992096Do you want the people from the DMV running a nuclear power plant? This might sound glib but the last decade or so of DEI mania shows it's a realistic concern.
Seeing cost reduction in big figure scales consistently coming out of China is making me appreciate them.Deepseek was insane, now this. I really like seeing costs go down, especially for useful and/or common things. It exposes just how inflated everything is.>I need 3 trillion dollars to make a lemonade stand and operate it for just 1 monthbullshit
>>106992135No idiot the ccp owns like 33% of it or some shit
>>106992032They’re hell bent on stealing the money.Kind of like corporations. The only thing execs, board members and c-levels think about is how to wring as much money out as possible.
>>106992135>dumb fuck retard knows nothing>demonstrates this in one postthe absolute state of that remaining iq point of yours.
>>106992075Then you go and design it so the backup generators and batteries are in the basement so archeologists will dig up the gold plated valves in pristine condition in 1000 years and think “retards”
>>106992032>create a capitalist system>capitalists use it to line their own pocketsWow, who could have seen that one coming? Capitalism doesn't work, it's just a get rick quick scheme which collapses after a few decades. The US hasn't been a real economy in decades. 90% of US GDP is made up bullshit like Meta being valued at trillions of dollars for making websites and toys.The only reason they've been able to do this is because of the dollar dominance (which was established back when the US DID have a real economy). That's on its way out, eventually the house of cards collapses. The real US GDP is probably 4-5 trillion total.
>>106992135>Letting private corpos take part in nuke reactor construction>oyy vey we've gone through all the money allocated and we're not even halfway through the project, well you better give us more billions or else you'll have spent all these billions so far for nothing and you'll get voted out for wasting taxpayer money. don't worry, I'm sure we won't end up doing this all over again resulting in a 3x to 10x cost overrun haha
>>106992188>The US hasn't been a real economy in decades. 90% of US GDP is made up bullshit like Meta being valued at trillions of dollars for making websites and toys.I can not believe this is real life. I don't even know what to say, this is just true and indefensible.
>>106992032build big very expensivepolar expedition tier portable not so expensive
>SMR is the future>you see if we make nuclear plants smaller and more inefficient they'll actually work out to be cheaper>no we don't have any being used in production, and every company that's shilled them has ended up going bankrupt>but this time it will be different! trust the plan!
>>106992188Capitalism works when you're talking about non-necessities. Shit like infrastructure, housing, healthcare, etc should be ran by a competant non-profit with state oversight and funding where needed.
>>106992248No its the internet anon you think adam smith would know itd get this bad.
>>106992075>Just a single SIL3 valve actuator combo for a nuclear plant is gonna be at least 30K a popwhy does it cost so much?the materials?why cant it cost 100$?
>>106992275They're a bit more complicated than normal.
>>106992287that doesn't answer my questionif we would make it inhouse, buying only the materials, would it still cost 30k?
>>106992300No if it was made by slaves
>>106992075No, it's because China is building new reactors out the fucking ass and they're doing it in a way a nation capable of mass manufacturing does things. That is by designing one reactor and spamming it all over the country and benefiting from scale. West is building one reactor here and another there with every single one being unique, so everything needs to be designed and manufactured from scratch for just that one reactor. That shit worked in a preindustrial world where it was all skilled laborers doing their jobs. It was still expensive as fuck but it was the only choice. Doing it now makes no fucking sense.
>>106992331This is the issue. If we hadn't been retards and basically destroyed our nuclear industry we could do it to, but alas. Actually maybe we couldn't because we moved all manufacturing to China anyway, but the fact that we build a new reactor every 20 years doesn't help.
>>106992032Because in America we don't want a China-Syndrome.
americans really be like >please put highly dangerous energy tech in my back yard which will be mostly staffed by 75 iq blacks and targeted by chinese spies in the event anything pops off>EXPERTS SAY ITS ACTUALLY SAFEyeah shut the fuck up retard go live in china and eat some boiled cats then. stupid ass bitch
>>106992032Remember when the chinks lied about the cost of Deepseek? Perhaps their stated costs shouldn't always be taken at face value
>>106992032It's because of regulations that are designed to increase the costs without doing anything because many left-wingers in the West don't like nuclear power.
>>106992331You're either a child or a chink
>>106992032>US NPP engineers, operators are paid with high, humane, proper salries. chink salaries are not>US has stringent, high control over NPP operation & maintenance. chinks aren't>US NPP construction are made of high quality materials. chink one aren't. In fact, they cut cornersIn the coming months, china will have several nuclear meltdown that make Chernobyl and Fukushima look mild.
>>106992032There is a low supply of nuclear construction expertise. If more companies that built nuclear power plants existed and competed for contracts, like in the past, the costs would be much lower.
>>106992032democrats
>>106992075now imagine if you had both the raw materials as well as the factory capacity to mass produce these for MANY new reactors instead of only building one NPP every decade from imported goods that are taxed and tarrifed to hell and back
Thanks to one thing happening one time, the amount of regulations and safety shit you need on all of this in America (thanks partly to lobbying by gas companies) jacks up the price astronomically.
The government is good at making lots of gray structures at the same time you should know this by now
All the regulation about nuclear in the 70s kneecapped the industry forever. We're talking 2.5x increase in building materials, and 5x the amount of manhours needed to build the plant.
>>106992032Picture this, you start making that nuclear reactor and suddenly constructions stop because the company ran out of funding or someone sued for putting a nuclear reactor on their backyard or whatever and all the construction workers are sitting around doing nothing until the issue gets resolved but they're still being paid so you get delays that naturally cause cost overruns.
tl;dr CHYNA has the economies of scale
>>106992668Nuclear power is safer then any fossil fuel power and more reliable then any renewable.>>106992808They won’t because you would need to be as retarded as soviet spies to cause second Chernobyl. And Fukushima was a tsunami that broke the power plant. Radiation from that power plant to this day killed only a single person. It’s like volcano blowing up wind power plant and then blaming that volcano explosion on wind power.
>>106992075Its not the cost of the tech, its the cost of regulations thats slowing down the development/building and deployment by 10-20 years
>>106992162CCP party leadership is made up of engineers. American gov is made up of lawyers. That tells you how effective the country is run. DMV is made up of failed lawyers
>>106993590Be fair about Fukushima, Japan is on the most widely studied fault line in the world, the Pacific rim, known for centuries for relatively frequent tsunamis, and they put the plant right up next to the sea, and put the pump backup generators at sea level
>>106993590did you get that statement from a v-sauce video?weird how some of the least educated and informed people on this topic have the strongest opinions on it. watching a pop science video about it doesnt make you informed
>>106992188Since when china is not a capitalistic country?
>>106993621and not software "engineers" either
>>106993643Its simple a nuclear power plant cost like over s billion dollars snd doesnt pay for itself until 10 years later dude. Thats not what investors want they want high returns.
>>106992032>per wattper what?
>>106993661i don't know if i want a government of engineers. we haven't had particularly good experiences with that in the US.
>>106992032the problem with all these statistics is that the numbers from china are the officially released ones by the communist party.could be true, could be retarded shit
>>1069936511949
>>106992032>Why is Nuclear Tech So Expensive?The reason why it's expensive is because everyone wants a share of public money. So every politician's donor has a consulting firm that NEEDS to be involved.>>106992087China nuclear power plant is the only one that is recognised as being failproof, even in the catastrophic event where we simply stop making nuclear engineers, there is no one to operate it.https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a61815284/china-nuclear-power-plant-cant-melt-down/
>>106993695They would be ruthlessly efficient, but engineers are craftsmen at heart and thus their mindset is mainly utilitarian with ideological second. Thats why China advanced so fast because all their engineer-political power wanted to do was improve the livelihood of China. American political power is partisan ideology first, utilitarian second. This is absolutely the wrong path to success.
>>106993733nahhh.The West is stuck with very old designs that have not failed yet and therefore are perfect.
>>106993733Communism was always made up of stemlords. Russia is no longer communist so theyre losing theyre stemlordiness.
>>106993733>utilitarian secondMore like donor/lobbyist favor second. Ulititarian aspect in american politics is non-existent.
>>106993757Hard to build anything when the first question in the politicians' mouths is "How does this benefit Israel?"
>>106993716Well, RBMKs also technically can't explode, yet chernobyl did because of cutting corners. I'm not saying that chinese reactors are definitely ticking bombs, but one should not just blindly trust technology when economical factors can easily invalidate any such technological guarantees.
>>106993753VenezuelaCubaNorth KoreaLaosVietnam
>>106993815Cuba has doctors instead of stemlords>venezuelaSocdem that went horribly wrong>north korea, vietnam, laosProb full of stemlords
>>106993815I think North Korea is going into a different directionhttps://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/north-korean-dictator-recommends-hitler-book-to-senior-officials
>>106992032>The west is too stupid to make things cheapAmerica can't even make fucking Metal or Steel without having it cost a leg and an arm.>>106993567This. Who knew that building shit en masse while subsidizing everything makes things cheaper to make!?
>>106993815Venezuela was never ruled by communists. Their Communist Party is even in opposition to Maduro
>>106992032Because we have things like strict quality control, safety standards, human rights, and pay our workers as opposed to using human wave tactics and slave labor to mass produce the same cheap design copied from ours over and over again.
>>106992032does that chart account for US dollar inflation? so much of what people think is getting expensive is really the devaluation of the dollar.
>>106992808if you could read you would have noticed those months passed two decades away, they have been building reactors since the mid 90s and since the mid 10s started spamming them but you can't read since you're an american, is a nigger
>>106992032what exactly is preventing more of this?
>>106992300labor costs, regulatory costs, 150 middlemen per component taking a slice. In the 1960s this valve would cost $10. US is decadent beyond control and cant build anything in a cost effective way
>>106992772Do you not understand the benefits of mass manufacturing multiple copies of one thing? Now go look at how many reactors China is building. And then go take a look at how many reactors are being built in the west. And then look how many of those are built with identical blueprints.
>>106993806chernobyl happened because of hubris and negligence. a modern meltdown would be more like fukushima which is also hubris but mainly around profit and japs expectedly not being as moral as they depict themselves in their narcissistic stories. either way it's all human error and incidentally, china halted progress on nuclear in favor of solar for a decade precisely because of fukushima so you'd hope the government is truly taking it a lot more seriously, irregardless of the tech.
>>106994623>chernobyl happened because of hubris and negligenceand graphite tips and no containment structure
>>106994742sure, but the idea was it was foolproof if the humans were at the top of their game. modern reactors are built with the apple philosophy of the users are toddlers. not perfect especially to malice or profound stupidity but hopefully if they were that paranoid of meltdowns they'd be paranoid of this too
>>106993567china has over a billion people. they've got no choice but to start building more nuclear power plants as the world moves away from coal exports and coal fired plants. china import a shitload of it every day.
