> uses Signal> Amazon fucks up> Signal downWhy are you still using centralized services anon?
>>107001391>Most based /g/eneral on catalog rn>muh signalOMEMO is all you need.>muh matrix/discordMUCs are all you need.I love the profanity client. It supports it all (omemo, otr, mucs, etc). It is comfy to chat your way (instead of being forced to proprietary/electron webapps)
>>107001391If you are going to run a general then provide useful information. Recommended services to create an account, clients for both desktop and mobile...
i tried matrix some time ago but didn't found interesting enough channels to lurk. on public servers there were mainly politics and manchild things.
>>107003610https://xmpp.org/software/?platform=all-platformsI like Dino for desktop and Conversations for Android. Does anyone here run her own server?>>107002118>>muh signal>OMEMO is all you need.What's the diifference, post-quantum encryption?
>>107004015I don't run my own server, but my friends do so I have an account on one of theirs, and one on tchncs.de.Prosody is really good, lightweight, and easy to set up (plus, Lua!)For clients I used to use Gajim but now mostly use Dino on desktop, I use Monocles (Conversations fork) on mobile.I've had issues with OMEMO, but they were caused by someone using a really out of date client.Which is a recurring theme, for some godsaken reason people keep tring to use ancient clients (also some distros have really outdated packages for Gajim, like Fedora).>>107003932Not many public channels as everyone's on either Discord or migrated from Discord to Matrix for some reason. Go make one!I found Matrix really broken, lots of cross-client incompatability, centralisation, and it's a resource hog both client and server, and servers some how repeatedly are getting out of sync and not talking to each other which makes it horrible to use.One thing I will note which isn't intuitive is sometimes for OMEMO to work in a MUC you need to add the other members as contacts (and enable presence etc sharing, which is usually default). So encryption is for smaller groups, not larger public ones, which is sensible as otherwise chat history would be impossible.
>>107004262>For clients I used to use Gajim but now mostly use Dino on desktop, I use Monocles (Conversations fork) on mobile.>I've had issues with OMEMO, but they were caused by someone using a really out of date client.Does someone know if it is possible to use the same user account with different applications? I've tried but it seems like I can't decrypt the messages sent or received using a different client.
>>107004471>is it possible to use the same user account with different applications?Of course, just need to make sure other people have seen your new client for their client to do a key exchange (usually sending an OMEMO message to a MUC works, if that fails then sending them an OMEMO direct message always seems to kick things into action).If you mean you can't decrypt your own messages then that's weird, maybe check your user settings and ensure the other client's key is set as trusted?Messages sent before the new client appeared won't decrypt though, because that'd be a security flaw in theory… but I wish you could manually request this to happen if the other person agrees.If you really want, you can copy your keys from one client to a new one, but you absolutely must remove the keys from the old client otherwise megashit confusion is gonna happen.
>>107004471If the account is stored serverside, then the same account with different applications should be possible, however the behaviour for multiple logged in accounts may vary between deployment.> it seems like I can't decrypt the messages I'll take a wild guess at the 'foriegn' client doesn't have access to the keys used to encrypt them...
>>107004545>>107004546Thanks, mates.
>>107001391I run Gajim on the desktop and Conversations on the phone at all times and nobody has ever messaged me there ever
if it didn't use xml i'd switch to it in an instant
Will move to something federated when the EU passes Chat Control. It's gonna happen guys as sad as it sounds.Will probably host my own Matrix instance. It's python basedftware but it will do.
>>107005090>matrixKys. Xmpp is the way.
>it's muh decentralized servicesthey all go through your ISP, and all rely on government backbones.
>>107004947>nobody has ever messaged me there evertry finding friends>>107005090>when the EU passes Chat Controlwhy wait until the issue hits and not get yourself ready now?>host my own Matrixgood luck, and why Matrix?
>>107005269>good luck, and why Matrix?The server setup is easy but most importantly the clients are normie friendly. I'm gonna deploy it for my whole family of normies.>why wait until the issue hits and not get yourself ready now?I deployed on in the past for store I used to do IT for. It's a 30 minute job, tops.
>>107005297>server setup is easy>the clients are normie friendlyboth of these are true for XMPP, see Prosody and Conversations. I meant why not get your family all on and used to it now, what's the reason for waiting.>deploy it for my whole family of normiessuper nice, wish I could convince my family, they're all WhatsAppers and see no reason to use anything else. the old beans' friends are whatsappers too and so network affect applies..
>>107001391>Why are you still using centralized services anon?Because there are actually people on them.
>>107005297>The server setup is easyNo way, it's not easy at all unless you use the Ansible playbook, even figuring out how to setup Prosody with all the billion plugins that you need to make the server support all the modern features is easier>clients are normie friendlyThat's true, XMPP clients kinda suck
>>107001391Is there a /g/ xmpp room?
>>107005598>Is there a /g/ xmpp room?Add publicg@conference.yourdata.forsale
the problem with XMPP is that it never truly standardized on a "plug and play" featureset, so the only people who like it are those who tinker with their setup. if you told my whole family to get on Matrix, you'd just point them at Element and 15 minutes later everyone would be in an E2EE group chat with working file sharing, push notifications when offline, and calls. if you told them to do the same with XMPP, you would maybe find 1 other person who actually understands what these letters mean and the rest would instead decide to install What's App or whatever.
just use openim.nl, glowie free
Why wouldn't you host your own XMPP server, I have one running on a literal 512 MiB RAM VPS with ~10 GiB storage and with all the features
>>107006256>install app from the appstore>create user (no email or phone number required)>doneeven simpler than whatsapp
>>107006466I'm hosting at home with tor >>107005758no tor s2s support
>>107006466some people don't need to
literally all open source xmpp daemons suck dicksand shit is so convoluted that i'm not gonna write a better one (and neither is anybody else)
>>107001391If you use Signal then you are already using XMPP.The Signal protocol is based on XMPP.They just took the protocol and locked it to work only on their servers.
>>107008178>If you use Signal then you are already using XMPP.>The Signal protocol is based on XMPP.Same with pretty much every IM these days. Whatsapp, Facebook, Google IM all started as XMPP forks.
>>107008178>to work only on their serversDo people really think this is normal? Imagine if you could send emails only to people using your same provider. Why do we tolerate this shit when it comes to mobile applications?
>>107008178
>>107008211>Imagine if you could send emails only to people using your same provider.It pretty much is already like this.Gmail + Ymail + Outlook are like 99 % of all emails in the world, if your email is not hosted on these 3 it is pretty much guaranteed that it will get dropped, it wont even reach the spam folder.>Why do we tolerate this shit when it comes to mobile applications?Because each application is unique, with different or exclusive features, layouts, integrations, and is associated with the parent company branding.The public thinks it's being done from scratch each time.
So what's the best linux client for xmpp
>>107009206psi+
>>107008226Ah yes League of Legends, EVE Online and Fortnite, the holy trinity of messaging protocols. All three of them ship with kernel level spyware btw
>>107009206Dino or Gajim. Profanity if you are a consolechad>>107009474completely irrelevant to the discussion
>>107009474>League of Legends, EVE Online and Fortnite, the holy trinity of messaging protocolsthis but unironically
>>107001391tbqh there's nothing better (proprietary or OSS) than XMPP in the IM space today. It's such a shame that the clients don't support every feature, except conversations on android, it may be the best I used.>>107003610Some contribution?>>107002118>I love the profanity client. It supports it all (omemo, otr, mucs, etc). It is comfy to chat your way (instead of being forced to proprietary/electron webapps)What about voice calls? do you use something else like mumble?>>107003932matrix is literally made by the mossad, and has a lot of flaws.>>107008108I heard that before, but why they made sending data over IP this complicated?>>107008178>picrel
We need to make a new messaging protocol.
>>107011374matrix.org
>>107009590>What about voice calls? do you use something else like mumble?yes. I basically use xmpp for open source software community group chats.
>>107009206Profanity on terminal. Gajim for GUI.
>>107011374>We need to make a new messaging protocol.too many already
>Why are you still using centralized services anon?Something to do with the fact that I need such things to communicate with normies (be it relatives or who else) who won’t ever move to something different, you guys are really the north sentinel island of the web
>>107001391*blocks your path*
>>107011374>make a new messaging protocol.and no one will use it, and there will be little software for it. Instead, spend your time improving the software for existing protocols.I use XMPP simply because it works the best, though software is lacking, Matrix could work similarly as good and has a much larger user-base, so go spend your time helping them get rid of their shitty JavaScript and Python messes.
>>107012653Neither of these are possible to improve to perfection while retaining compatibility with the specs
>>107012692XMPP has extensions retard. what is needed is a client or set of clients that agree on a set of extensions for all of the major operating systems (Windows, macOS, Linux, Android, iOS). we're close, but there are still small differences in extension support between the clients that make normies and retards think its jank
>>107013601But these extensions are kinda janky as fuck if you look at it from the elegance perspective, if you take a look at Carbons or MAM for example, you'll see that the decision whether, for example, to archive a stanza or not is based entirely on some heuristics based on present elements in the stanza or tags, instead of actually having a stanza type that directly says "this is an archived message". It feels like the whole of XMPP (as a messaging platform with all the relevant extensions, not talking about the core RFC protocol here) is built haphazardly and on a too basic of a foundation
>>107006256>problemit's a you problem, setting up snikket server on old laptop takes literally 15mins if you can handle DNS entries (oh the horror), audio/videocalls and push notifications work out of the box, all you need is to install app from appstore kek
Can you tell me how to not lose messages in MUCs on remote servers when you don't log into your XMPP account for a few weeks?
>>107011374This. And for the sake of god this time don't use xml.>>107012653If it's greater than the available, easy to adapt and use, I don't see how it can fail. People are in constant search for a better messaging protocol, email is still good but it was made for a past era, the same for IRC, xmpp is a mess, matrix way worse, and everything else is either too obscure or centralized honeypots like signal and telegram.>>107013601>what is needed is a client or set of clients that agree on a set of extensions for all of the major operating systemsWhat if instead the clients implement a universal extension api (like webextention) while only having the basics of the protocol, and then the plugins when made can be used in all of the clients, like how web browsers do. And that will open another world of extensions and scripting. But then you need a new protocol >>107012692
>>107001391>use Signal for general comms>use local Prosody hosted on RPi for secret local XMPP comms with gf at home
>>107012398>>107012653In order to have people using it the new IM protocol needs to follow the BlueSky idea. Instead of releasing a protocol spec and trying to make it popular somehow, the devs should release the protocol spec, the official server software, the official client, which crucially must be named exactly the same as the protocol, and the official server instance hosted on a domain that has the name of the protocol in it. The official client should not ask you which server to create your account on, but rather create it on the official server instance unless the user actually tries to use a different server. The whole thing will be then marketed the same as a regular proprietary chat app. It's the only way to succeed.
>>107001391xmpp is based, just don't forget federated its just as evil as centralized services if not worse in some cases
>>107015153>BlueSkyis fake decentralisation/federation. but yeah, I agree otherwise. FOSS and protocol people suck at marketing.Though, Matrix has done quite decently… but has centralisation issues.The software having a built-in list of instances from the start to choose from and making this as easy as possible (while still having a default for simpletons) would do a great deal to help.Plus, just having a protocol that actually works federated.
>>107015089>And for the sake of god this time don't use xml.let me hear you lisp json>jaaayyyythhhhon >thhhhillly boyyyythhhh
>>107015050ask server admin to increase MUC message history retention.
XMPP is finished
so i installed ejabberd on a server, got my dad to install monal, called him from dino... now what?
>>107017214now you go do everything else in your life and just use the software to talk to your dad.If you're feeling cool you throw yourself on a bed of XML and implement your own thingy like a bot or bridge or client (a lot of the XML intricacies can be skipped for XMPP)
>>107017307maybe i'll try to reduce the number of warnings first, it's still complaining about mnesia and turn. also the server itself is smelly ubuntu. and dns provider sucks (in context of dns challenges).
>>107017214Should've installed Prosody
>>107019943what's the practical difference?
