Why does the red button not kill the application? Windows and linux have solved this problem for over 40 years. What is the use case of hiding a window and not actually killing the process? was steve jobs gay, retarded, or both?
>>107005413>the red button on the window closes the windowtruly a mystery…
>>107005425it hides it u dumb retarded nigger ape. clicking the button should do the following: kill app.
>>107005448it doesn't hide it, that's what cmd+h does>clicking the button should do the following: kill appwhy? it's a button on a specific window, why would you expect it to operate on the underlying process that spawned the window?
>>107005413this happens in windows and linux as well. plenty of apps that just minimize to the system tray.
>processes are the same things as windowswhat gui-centrism does to a mf
long story short, to make you comeback to the app faster, it doesn't eat much ram so whatever
iTODDLERS BTFO
>>107005413>windows solved this problem The fuck did it solve it. The close button means whatever the fuck the devs want it to do, there's zero consistency. Sometimes it will minimise to the tray. Sometimes the taskbar for some fucking reason (fucking Dimmer for example)Linux is just as bad these days.MacOS is quirky, but consistent. Red button closes the window, not the program. Close the program through menu bar or dock. Done.
>>107005413It made more sense 20 years ago when everyone was booting from a very slow mechanical disk.
>>107005413Use case for "killing" an "application"?If your system is efficient at managing RAM then there's literally no reason to close a program.>inb4 the program froze and need to restart itUse better "applications" then.
>wnjeet/linjeet got btfo again
>>107005617>Use case for "killing" an "application"?Reduces bloat.
>>107005413?
Full screen is also useless with the Macbook notch. The window control buttons are vestigial at this point.
>>107005413if you have several windows of the same program on windows or linux and press the x button, does it close all of the windows?x was never "shut down program" in any system, it has always been "close window">>107005448just say you are poor and never used macosif you press x and then click the program icon again, it opens a new window, not the same that was just hidden>>107005647>having my own programs that i use ready for using is bloat, and having hardware just there empty and unused is ok
>>107005984>things you're not currently using taking up memoryLiterally the definition of bloat.
>>107006022do you also think that when you turn on you pc only the wallpaper and clock are running and using memory?
>>107006054If your system runs a bunch of shit in the background that isn't essential to its proper functioning, as soon as you boot up, you are suffering from bloat by definition. And no, I don't really care about your strawman.
>>107006081ah so you install ram modules dynamically when you open programs and then yank them out when closing them, because "why have something there that i am not using right this instant" got it, no point in having things ready aheaddumb retard
@107006113>having resources available for use is bloatPlenty of mentally ill retards on this board as well.
>>107005984>if you have several windows of the same program on windows or linux and press the x button, does it close all of the windows?If they're dialog windows connected to the main window being close, yes. We also expect to be able to run two separate instances of the same app as two unique processes with their own window and UI controls. >just say you are poor Having $1200 in disposable income is not a flex.
>>107005617You’re one of those “let’s turn PCs into phones because all I understand is a phone” type of person aren’t you?
MDI == multiple-document interface.It's transcends and precedes macOS.
>>107005413Use Command+Q
>>107005522>Red button closes the window, not the program. Close the program through menu bar or dock. Done.Not really, I have a couple of programs that close after pressing X. Also some programs that dont close after pressing quit on the menu bar
>>107005413>Something that often trips up people new to macOS is that the system is application-oriented rather than window-oriented (as Windows is): on macOS apps “contain” their windows, while on Windows an app’s windows are the app. This single difference in philosophy explains why the Windows taskbar lists open windows (or at least used to), while the Mac’s Dock lists apps, which in turn list their windows when right-clicked. It’s also why the App Switcher () lists apps, while Windows’ Task Switcher (Alt+Tab) lists windows.>A frequent source of confusion for new Mac users is how apps don’t quit when you close their last window – when you close the last Safari window you still see “Safari” in the menu bar which only vanishes if you quit the app entirely. Though we now know why this is the case on a philosophical level, what’s the reason practically? Keep in mind that the menu bar is a central place listing every command available to the user: even with no windows open, having access to an app’s menu bar is still a useful thing! The menu bar provides access to the entirety of an app’s functionality, window or no window.
>>107005522>close window>don't see the window anymore>app keeps running>minimize window>don't see the window anymore>app keeps runningwhat's the point?
>>107006564If you can't tell the difference between closing a window and minimising it, you should probably stick with an ipad.
>>107005413because it's the red button not the kill the application button
>>107005425>>107005470wew>>107005487I don't believe for a second that Mac users even know what a CLI is.
>>107005413Because ironically Windows has had more radical UI changes over the different versions than Mac OS has. Even the latest Mac OS superficially looks like classic MacOS and has some of its UI paradigms. I don't think there's any other software product that's as overrated as Mac OS.
>>107005413Retard.
>>107006623>I don't believe for a second that Mac users even know what a CLI is.Didn't Winblows only get a decent terminal 5 years ago?
>>107006626MacOS being NextStep in a fruit themed skinsuit is a feature, not a bug.
>>107006747I mean even the original System 1.On the one hand I respect their commitment on the other they've painted themselves in a corner.
>>107006729>I MUST GOOOOOONGod you AGP coomers are pathetic
>>107006626Apple got it right the first time with the menu bar. It’s a stroke of UI genius that solves several problems at the same time. The Mac is nothing without the menu bar.Microsoft, for whatever reason (maybe legal threats from Apple in the 80s and 90s), never had a Mac-style menu bar, which is why Windows has always been and will always be dogshit, no matter how many clownish attempts Microsoft makes at redesigning it.
>>107007087Imagine being this new
>>107006747>>107007067do you guys even look at your own screenshots?modern macos has a completely different file browser:no miller columns like in next.no spatial file browser like on classic mac.
>>107007188macOS / OS X has always had Miller columns in the Finder as one of its viewing modes. It was one of Steve Jobs’s favorite NeXTSTEP features so of course they would bring it over.
>>107005617I don't need it to be there hogging performance if I'm finished using it, anon. Do you think CPUs have infinite threads?
>>107007132The taskbar was perfect on Windows XP.Microsoft keeps fucking up their perfect invention more and more.
>>107005413there's an app for thatbut default behaviour is retarded desu
>>107007188The fuck are you on about anon
>>107007132>It’s a stroke of UI genius that solves several problems at the same time.Such as? I'd argue it introduces new problems too.
>>107007188>>107007284Also recommend looking into Rhapsody OS if you want to see the exact point in history where NextStep was turned into OSX
>>107005413It's an os made for literal toddlers who don't care. You can't even download certain programs without doing some arbitrary shit to allow "untrusted" developers, and even then it still sometimes refuses to launch unless you click cmd + h or some shit lmao. The average itoddler is so retarded they're only ever going to be downloading stuff from the app store anyway.You also can't configure the swap the os has by default and it literally rapes the ssd 24/7 from what I've seen, way more than windows or linux.
>>107006389Is it universal across all applications?
>>107005413true. another annoying thing is alt tab doesn't show separate windows, so if you two firefox apps open, it won't show all of them. can't tile windows, can't create a file in finder, can't show thumbnails in alt tab, disgusting OS designed by retarded pajeet niggers
>>107007339no, some apps like the built in finder don't even quit when you command q KEK
>>107007296It’s a single consistent place in the UI for:* seeing the name of the app that is currently in focus* discovering all commands / modes that can be performed / accessed in the current app in an organized layout* discovering all default and user-custom keyboard shortcuts for an app’s menu bar items* managing windows belonging to the current app* searching the entire menu bar hierarchy via the Help menu* accessing an app’s settings panel* finding the app’s version number* hiding or quitting the current app (or hiding all other apps instead)also the Apple menu on the left edge has really handy menu items for quickly getting system info and force-quitting troublesome apps
>>107007357Why would you ever quit a graphical desktop OS’s graphical desktop shell?
>>107007357woah thats crazy you tellin me explorer doesnt stop when you close all windows
>>107005413it's why they're called itoddlers, for retarded low iq people
>>107005413Possible its a design decision from the days of HDDs where loading an application into memory would take longer, and kept the behavior for consistency
>>107007488I'm pretty sure program files can still reside cached in unused RAM even if they're not actually running, it's purely a UI paradigm that Apple sticks to.I've given Mac OS a couple of genuine tries and it's just not for me, Cinnamon and KDE are the most sensible GUIs imho.
>Windoids cannot understand the concepts of closing a file but quitting a program. “Close” is used promiscuously in Windows to refer to everything from removing a file from active use to shutting down software, the latter of which is often deemed “exit.” As such, Windoids have a great deal of trouble relating to the idea that a program may stay up and running in the background with no documents open because you closed all those documents without quitting the program. One explanation: Some software quits when you close the last document, while other software starts a new document after you close the last one. (I shit you not. These nonsensical, baffling, even infuriating habits are readily found in Windows programs, including rivals Word and WordPerfect.)>The unmemorable keystrokes Alt-F4 and Ctrl-F4 make matters worse. What happens with each?>I know Windoids are not clear on what “close” really means because I have witnessed one of them mime folding over the flaps of a cardboard box when trying to communicate what he meant by “close the program.” (Is the program still taking up space with its lid closed? Is it still running?) Conceptually, Windows users associate closing a program with, say, closing up a cottage for the winter or closing a failing business – hardly apt analogies. https://blog.fawny.org/2011/04/16/windoids/
>>107007450>has more complex behavior>it's for retardsLet me guess, you get mad about the differentiation between opt+tab and opt+~ vs alt+tab don't you?
>>107005470yeah so all your apps are in the wordcel list lmao chud you want pictures?
>>107007705>The app looks funny, some of the words on top you can't click on or are gonevs>I can see the words on top and some are different, but the thingy below is missingthe same problem exists on mac as pc
>>107005413because of the amazing document architecture
>>107005413pretty much all of MacOS is different just to be different. The FUCKING DOCK is so incredibly stupid.The FUCKING TOP BAR is so incredibly stupid.The FUCKING KEYBOARD is so incredibly stupid.Just about anything you'd expect a modern OS to do is different on MacOS. Alt+Tab? Well FUCK YOU M8!Multi-Monitor? Well FUCK YOU M8!Windows not maximizing? Well FUCK YOU M8!Fullscreening a program in a sensible way? Well FUCK YOU M8!Don't like a 1px see-through area at the top of your program? Well FUCK YOU M8!It's so fucking ass backwards. It's only the people who do not use ANY efficiency features of their OSs that actually like MacOS, because quite franky they can't into comuters and ONLY for that user group it's even remotely acceptable
>>107007888so many skill issues in one post
>>107007357Let me baby this through with you. You know how you can have files and folders on your desktop? How do you think that works?
>>107005413You mean like Microsoft Teams which doesn't close by default?
>>107005448why are you clicking tiny buttons like an ape
>>107007966Winbabbies shit themselves at the thought of using a more comfortably placed superkey instead of repeatedly stretching out their pinkies to hit Ctrl, and they don’t even realize they can remap macOS’s modifier keys. Assuming they even know what a keyboard shortcut is.
>>107005413command + q
>>107007893Not showing all the open windows in the taskbar/dock is stupid, especially on MacOS, which places such high importance on the program/program-window difference (and I hate microsoft for copying that bullshit)I've talked to people who use MacOS their whole lives and didn't know what the top bar did. You know why? BECAUSE IT'S INCREDIBLY BAD DESIGN! Why did they design it that way? Because THINK DIFFERENT - NO MATTER HOW UNUSABLE IT IS!Why does the stupid top-bar completely distort sometimes when waking the piece of shit MacBook up with an external monitor? Because Apple can't into software development.Window-maximizing works differently for loads of programs. Some maximize it only vertically when double-clicking the window-top, some maximize it completely.Don't even get me started with other Apple-Software like XCode - the single worst program I've ever used.They are just not able to make usable software, but they're super great at #1 making the software FEEL high quality (even though it'd be better off being rewritten by an indian street-dev)#2 making the user feel like it's the user's fault when something breaks#3 making the user feel like it's an app-dev's fault when the OS fucks upand most important of all#4 psychologically manipulating the users to stockholm syndrome themselves to their shitty ecosystem.
>>107007888>Consistent design language from 1984 (when everyone else was still CLI only) through to today>Different just to be Different Remind me again how Windows 8's workflow went. Or Gnome 2 to Gmome 3.MacOS has a lot of quirks, but those are born from being conservative to a ridiculous degree, not from being different just for the sake of it.
>>107008035>Not showing all the open windows in the taskbar/dock is stupid, especially on MacOS, which places such high importance on the program/program-window differenceCtrl + down arrow or swipe down with three / four fingers on a trackpad
>>107008050so conservative that they regularly break backwards compatibility with anything and everything
>>107007284everytime I see a macos screenshot it's like a dimension wormhole from the gay realm opens.
>was steve jobs gayyes
>>107008068yeah just show me a random ordering of windows strewn across the screen instead of having the context I've been working in all day permanently visible in a UI element that's on screen all day anyway.The Dock is just incredibly inefficient use of space. Why would you have icons of apps that aren't open ALWAYS on screen, while starving yourself of information about the applications and windows you ACTUALLY CURRENTLY use? It's BAD DESIGN, and the ONLY BENEFIT is that it looks pretty to girls
>>107005413He died because he thought fruit cured cancer. Work it out for yourself.
>>107008103You seem like a person who doesn’t think very deeply about things and just likes to look for excuses to get irrationally angry
>>107008078Design language =/= Architecture Not that Apple are really doing anything other than turning off some arbitrary switch. Disabling support for 32bit apps was dumb, and killing rossetta 2 for no reason whatsoever will be dumb too. But never mind that. Don't move goalposts.>>107008090>b-but it looks gay!Cope.
>>107008133You think I haven't thought about this stuff? Why?I've seen and thought about loads of way to do the things an OS should do, what even are the things an OS should do, and what are the best ways to do those tasks. And as objectively as I am capable of, I evaluated MacOS to consistently choose some of the worst UX that is available. But it LOOKS pretty, so that's a trillion dollars for them I guess.
>>107007888>pretty much all of MacOS is different just to be different.this desu
>>107008103>The Dock is an incredibly inefficient use of spaceCommand + DProblem solved.
>>107008191That retard even insisted on keeping the one button mouse even though no one wanted that anymore. The workaround was Ctrl-clicking lmao.
i always hated macos it looks zoomed out and tiny. the mouse they keyboard all of it
>>107008377nigga deserved to die of aids
>>107008355I don't have a Mac at hand, but a quick google showed me that command D does a bunch of different things depending on context - I love context sensitive shortcuts - SO INTUITIVEI assume you mean cmd + opt + D to hide the dockAMAZING! Instead of having a badly desiged semi useful UI, disable the UI completely - amazing solution, idiot.Why not have a useful UI there instead?I mean... I'm all for removing as much MacOS from my monitor as possible, but I'd rather just not use MacOS at all
>i am unable to understand the difference between closing a window and closing an application>a difference that has existed since 1983, before windows or linux even existed>therefore everyone else is wrongretard
>>107007188>no miller columns like in nextyes it does you dope lmao
>>107007888>pretty much all of MacOS is different just to be differentis the first popular gui desktopbut is the different oneanon, windows was the one that chose to be different, and since the most popular linux shell was made by a stinky mexican copying windows, linux doesn't matter
>>107005413>why does a window decorator change the status of the window
>>107007888you do realize that macs had multi-monitor support a long time before windows, right? Not surprising because it fits its design philosophy rather well. The whole point of having a GUI is to do as many things as possible using a mouse. Drag and drop is immediately intuitive, and can be consistently used to do just about everything on a mac. Having large screen real-estate with many floating windows is how you properly leverage this feature. Using every window maximized (or feeling compelled to minimize inactive ones) is a CLI user's idea of a GUI, they are still thinking of windows as a virtual terminals rather than dynamic documents. You want information about open documents? Just leave them there, un-minimized, like you would leave different pieces of paper on a real desk. Don't worry about neatness. Try dragging and dropping more often, even if your windows-conditioned brain is telling you that it wouldn't work. All of this was figured out it in 1984 and a lot of productive work was done using this exact same paradigm. The fact that the user experience has changed so little despite 4 decades and 3 CPU architecture transitions is the sort of consistency unheard of software, and is still beloved by its users for a reason.
>>107005984>x was never "shut down program" in any system, it has always been "close window"even if what you were saying wasnt merely pedantic and contrarian for the sake of it: the majority of gui-based user applications have lifetimes that are completely and totally coupled to the existence of the corresponding SINGLE window that they spawn, and even applications that can spawn multiple windows have a lifetime, again, completely and totally coupled to some "main" window.Theres some exceptions (like messaging programs or torrent clients) but those have obivous reasons to stay open (unlike most gui applications).
>>107009108>macs had multi-monitor support a long time before windowsDid it ever work?The whole > a program window is basically a sticky note, just place it somewhere on the screenmentality can only come from people who have absolutely no fucking idea how to use a computer - which is the reason Apple is so successful, that's the exact group of people targeted. Just like MacDonalds is for people who don't know anything about food.That doesn't mean it's good, it just means loads of people are too stupid to understand how bad it is.
>>107009209>applications that can spawn multiple windows have a lifetime, again, completely and totally coupled to some "main" window.Windows are, once again, not virtual terminals to work inside of. In most cases, they represent documents. If you have 5 letters open, which one would be the “main”? If you closed all 5 of them, but changed other things about program state, the more intuitive behavior will be to preserve those changes until the user explicitly exits the program. Even some windows programs try to emulate this behavior by creating a new, empty document when all documents are closed. This is both inelegant and inconsistent when you could have just kept the program running in the background, which is what macOS does.
>>107005413>If you kill all threads then the application should still continue to run!Why are mac fags like this?
>>107009698>If you have 5 letters open, which one would be the “main”?Not many programs work like this, do you have an example? For this use case almost everything would use tabs in 2025, and if you close the window containing the tabs then the parent process generally (rightfully) exits. In cases where there is no background process happening, why keep anything running if all the windows are closed? Despite what people are pretending here most systems don't have limitless memory, and even if you "could" RAM wise its not like theres no penalty to doing so (less room for page cache etc).>in most cases they represent documentscurrently i have my browser, discord, vscode, my terminal, a music player, and a pdf reader open. None of those extremely common programs' window "represents a document" or in fact any logical single entity at all.
>>107009698These concepts you're talking about are all valid... About 20 years ago. Nowadays we have moved on, there's better ways to do these things. Instead of a window representing a document (what the fuck), there's windows with multiple documents. Look at Photoshop, browsers, how do they do it? Even Finder has fucking tabs.When you start a program, do you expect no ui to open, just the top bar to change and then you decide to click on new document? Or would you expect like most software does, that it opens a window, perhaps empty with a selection of 'what do you want to so'? That's the correct way. That's why every program does it that way, and Apple clinging on that dusty old relic of a concept has nothing to do with usability, legacy or virtue - it's just to be different, with no benefit and only unintuitive behaviour.Same goes with the other concepts that try to replicate physical behaviour. Well a computer UI is inherently a virtual thing, making everything skeuomorphistic may be acceptable to teach children or isolated people who have never been in contact with a computer, but these concepts very quickly stop being useful. Are you saying scrolling shouldn't be allowed, just get a bigger screen?
>>107005413>Why does the red button not kill the application?Mac post OSX was built on the idea that everything has to be fast. You have to be able to open a program the microsecond you click on its icon or need to open something because normalfaggots think that if this doesn't happen, the computer is "Slow". So Apple realized the solution is to just keep commonly used programs in the background for a while, and when the user inevitably wants to use it again, it's already there and ready to be used again. Which worked great because the idea that Macs are faster than PCs has persisted to this day despite the fact Windows has done the same thing since 8. Mactoddlers are still mactoddlers after all.
>>107009585>Did it ever work?yes, publishing houses used multi-monitor setups on Mac IIs or even Mac SE/30s since before windows 3.1 was a thing. I trust that I don't have to remind you how unusable Windows 1 and 2 were. The rest of your post is just Dunning-Kruger elitism. There is nothing inherently wrong with a document-centric approach. A lot of thought went to it, and more importantly, a lot of productivity came out of it. The McDonald analogy fails because Windows PCs are lowest common denominators of computing, and compete on price rather than quality, so more akin to nutritionally-dubious fast food than a mac ever would be.
>>107009801>These concepts you're talking about are all valid... About 20 years ago. Nowadays we have moved on, there's better ways to do these things. Instead of a window representing a document (what the fuck), there's windows with multiple documents. Look at Photoshop, browsers, how do they do it? Even Finder has fucking tabs.NTA This philosophy is still UI aids because this inevitably results in a problem where you can have windows with multiple documents and there's no way to track them. The old method was superior simply because every single document, web page, any window you can have as a task is easily findable on the TASK. BAR.Remember the Task Bar? That thing OSX did away with? And now modern Windows?The thing that's supposed to tell you the extent of what is happening on your workspace? That sure was a nice thing to have before tabs ruined everything. And it's not like you can take that window apart and move it elsewhere like on a second monitor because now the problem is twice as bad. Desktops are made to have windows. Fuck mobile UI design philosophy. >>107009850>The rest of your post is just Dunning-Kruger elitism. There is nothing inherently wrong with a document-centric approach. A lot of thought went to it, and more importantly, a lot of productivity came out of it. The McDonald analogy fails because Windows PCs are lowest common denominators of computing, and compete on price rather than quality, so more akin to nutritionally-dubious fast food than a mac ever would be.Picture being so fat that you look at computers and you see food.
>>107009850Well I've had much more problems with MacOS and multi monitor than I've ever had with any other system, even raspberry pis don't fuck up so much. You have no idea what makes PCs different from each other.With PCs you have the ability to make your device do exactly what you need, and nothing more. Just need an office device? 200 bucks will sort you out. Need power for cad software? Get a beefy CPU. Want to game or do ai stuff? Get a good gpu then. Want a completely silent PC even under heavy load? No problem. Want to be super privacy focused? No problem. You can make it your own, like cooking at home, and you can save on stuff you don't need. Why is apple so successful then? Because it's easy. You don't have to think or know anything about your tools. Just get the BigMac. McDonald's is the same for everyone, sure they have some options, but you're not gonna get a carbonara there. McDonald's may not be expensive, but cooking yourself can be cheaper. But it doesn't have to be. You can focus on higher quality, nutrients, allergies, whatever you need. Still McDonald's is successful. It is the perfect analogy for Apple.
>>107009870>windows with multiple documents and there's no way to track them.ya, how could i possibly tell which tabs i have open in my browser? If only we had the technology huh?The "top bar context changes" design is absolute trash for so many reason. 99.9% of users on earth think of a "window" and a "program" and a "process" as equivalent things, it does not matter if that view is technically accurate or not. The window (aka the program) should own itself, it should not have its UI arbitrarily spread between itself (its own window) and the top bar. Its confusing and limits flexibility. I don't want to have to focus a window before i can take some action (or even see that i have the ability to)
>>107009870>tell you the extent of what is happening on your workspaceYou said it. How do you organise workspaces? That's what Windows do today. I always have at least 3 IDE windows open at my job, because I work on 3 or more projects. On the taskbar I find which one is project 1 because it's the first. And it will stay the first, so I can leverage an inherent ability of my brain without thinking about it. Genius. A document from project 2 will sure as fuck not be in project 1, so I don't need the taskbar to show me all the tens of documents I have open in every project, just the project is enough. Hierarchy. Ever heard of it?Sure that's not the only way to organise workspaces, Linux has some great alternatives. MacOS though? The worst, nigh unusable and believe me I've tried to do it the way Apple wants me to. I've learned the hotkeys, I've researched what is possible and how, and the wtfs/min were never as high as with MacOS. Insane decisions everywhere, just to adhere to a mentality that hasn't grown since 1984
>>107009752>Not many programs work like this, do you have an example? Most office suites, including libreoffice, still work that way. I am not arguing against tabs or multi-document interfaces. I'm just making a case for the macOS approach to the red button being the right one, or at least informed by a consistent philosophy of how programs should behave. It's not a novelty for novelty’s sake or Steve Jobs being “gay.”>currently i have my browser, discord, vscode, my terminal, a music player, and a pdf reader open.You do copy/paste between any two of them, right? I know I have dragged and dropped code snippets or images from pdfs into discord chats, more or less doing the same thing as someone dragging an .AIFF file to a hypercard stack in 1990. So the metaphor still holds - virtual scrapbooking between two virtual documents.>>107009801>When you start a program, do you expect no ui to open, just the top bar to change and then you decide to click on new document?This is not what macOS does, at all. Or what this thread is about. It's about behavior on closing that's being debated- or rather the fact that many people conflate "close document" with "exit program" when they are two very different things.
>>107010122>So the metaphor still holds - virtual scrapbooking between two virtual documents.I mean if you want to extend the meaning of "document" that far, sure, but to me the window still isnt representing a document in most of my applications' cases, its representing the program. Whatevers in the tab or pane or whatever could be considered a "document". Its getting into semantics though at this point, so like whatever dude. And if libreoffice does that then fine.anyway lets be clear here: steve jobs IS gay and the entire dieter rams inspired obfuscatory design philosophy is filth. Few people accelerated us more towards slop and away from true ownership than that group.
>>107009828>just keep all the programs in memory in case they want to use them again bro>it will make it fasterlmao
>>107006576I accept your concession
>>107007284did they fix the status bar?
>>107005413Command + Q is the correct answer. You should be using shortcuts no matter what OS you're on.If you wanted to complain about MacOS it's really simple;Why does it lack >Global< shortcuts?No matter what you're doing in Windows just press Winkey+E = new explorer window. MacOS Command + N is a mystery box depending what application has window focus at that time. Garbage design decision and if you disagree please kill yourself asap.
>>107011314True but Command is the equivalent of Ctrl, so Apple fucked up by not having a key just for global hotkeys. Apple was cringe for not copying this from Windows 95, but it's the downside of coming first, you want to stick to your old design to not imitate newcomers.
>>107005413document centric UI. you shouldn't be wasting effort thinking about managing applications and instead focusing on the actual work you're doing.
>>107011314I've been using MacOS with shortcuts without problems for years. Maybe you're just dumb.
>>107011607Such a stupid comment can only come from somebody who only has 3 'documents' open at a time anyway. How's your screenplay coming along, muppet?
>>107005413macos is so much more efficient with memory there's rarely a reason to kill an applicationit's also built around shortcuts and gestures, no one should ever be pressing a button
>>107012112That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read
>>107011629if you're born retarded you'll never realize that you're retarded
>>107011253You mean with the liquid ass? That's all pretty much gone now except the quick settings and dock background. It's perfectly readable, if you don't mind it looking like stock Gnome.
>>107009801>Nowadays we have moved on, there's better ways to do these things. Instead of a window representing a document (what the fuck), there's windows with multiple documents.I hate to break this to you anon, but tabs are just another way of drawing new windows. Check your process tree. Different ui, same behavior underneath. And what happens when you close the last tab? Does it close the entire program, or does it load your home page or a new tab screen? You only think it's better because it's mimicking MacOS's behaviour.>Well I've had much more problems with MacOS and multi monitor than I've ever had with any other systemI accept this concession. Apple still don't understand that some people want a second permanent monitor, and still treat them as external, temporary accessories. It's dumb.
>close doesn't close>minimize doesn't minimize>maximize doesn't maximizehow do osx fags even live with themselves
>>107013740I don't give a fuck about what happens under the hood, I give a fuck about how usable it is. Closing the last browser tab closes the browser btw. And having an empty window showing the user 'hey this app is running, but there's nothing opened in it' is a much better UX than just changing the top bar - something long time mac users often don't even know. But putting all 'documents' in a global context is stupid. Putting all windows of the same app behind one single icon on the dock is stupid. Putting all running applications, even those without a window, in the dock is stupid.Windows has recognised that some applications need to run in the background and hides them either completely or in the tray. The UI gets out of my way and concedes more visual space for the things I actually work on 'right now'. MacOS may be consistent, prettier and simpler, but it sure isn't better, faster or more efficient to work with.
>>107013826>how do osx fags even live with themselvesLinux trannies are the ones that can't live with themselves.
>>107013838>Windows has recognised that some applications need to run in the background and hides them either completelyWe're well aware, and that's why everyone is jumping ship.
>>107014028I don't like win11 either, but that's not the point of this discussion
>>107005448no it should not that would be surprising for mac users it closes the window this is like immigrants coming here and saying we should build minarets and have prayer callsno fuck off
>>107005470>why? it's a button on a specific window, why would you expect the computer to shut down when you press it?
>>107005470>clicking the button should do the following: kill appI still don't get how this is a controversial statement on /g/
>>107014125How is it not? People have been ringing alarm bells about windows hiding background applications from the user since they started doing it towards the end of Windows 7's lifespan. The current state of Windows 11 is simply the logical endpoint of it.
>>107013740>I hate to break this to you anon, but tabs are just another way of drawing new windows. Check your process tree. Different ui, same behavior underneath. And what happens when you close the last tab? Does it close the entire program, or does it load your home page or a new tab screen? You only think it's better because it's mimicking MacOS's behaviour.why do you think this matters exactly? This is a UX discussion. Do you have autism? Most other people here have the reading comprehension to garner this naturally.>>107014417I don't really get what youre implying - you realize all OS's have about a trillion background proccesses, both kernel and userspace, that you cant directly see outside some sort of process manager right? Or does your machine have a window open for your network connection manager or audio driver all the time? This is not a "windows 11" thing lol
>>107013838>Windows has recognised that some applications need to run in the background and hides them either completely or in the tray.hello retard. in windows 11 you can't even turn this off
>>107005413Because you still might want to do something from the application's menu bar with all windows closed. For example, after having closed all windows, you can still click File > New or File > Open. I know lots of you are Linux users who like to do things with applications from the terminal with none of that application's windows open, so you can think of the menu bar as simply a list of commands that can be executed.
>>107015184>so you can think of the menu bar as simply a list of commands that can be executed.>thats also using ram...>and doing who knows what in the background...>and dissapears whenever you focus another window...Cool!
>>107015184That's such insanely shit UX, honestly.
>>107005470Excluding the UI actions required to bring the window back to the foreground, is there a difference between cmd+H and red circle? If not, it's redundant behavior.
