I feel like you don't need to "fight" Proxmox (Qubes lacks features like hyperthreading and nested virtualization because it's security-oriented), but, on the other hand, and kind of ironically, Proxmox needs a lot more manual configuration compared to Qubes, simply because Qubes comes pre-configured with many things by default, and many others are a download away from being installed.Which one do you think it's better for gayming, testing stuff, working, and so on?
>>107087313Why does this board suck so much?This thread had more comments in a minute after mistakenly posting it to /biz/ than here.../g/ - Technology
>>107087313>>nested virtualizationR U OK????
>>107087533?? Do you know what that is useful for, esp. in a guest systems (aka, inside a VM)?
>>107087313This is a dumb argument.Both are very different programs that use VMs. If either are too hard for you, you are just a mediocre user.You can make any distro work like them, if you know your shit well enough. There are just prepacked for your own good.
>>107087765You absolutely can not have anything else quite as secure as Qubes if you are talking about VMs.
This is retarded.Qubes OS does not have the same usecase as proxmox.
>>107087791Only if you are a brainlet.
>>107087765>Both are very different programs that use VMs. If either are too hard for you, you are just a mediocre user.>You can make any distro work like themWhat "argument" are you talking about? Have you actually ever used any of them?Proxmox fucking sucks if you have to configure your network. You have to run iptables by hand in the host system for, say, port forwarding.. Also, doesn't come pre-hardened, like >>107087791 said. And "hardening" Proxmox won't even give you the same level of security as Qubes.This isn't about doing shit in the VMs, but about managing the host system.>>107087808Show us, then.Again, have you ever used Qubes? You don't seem to have a clue.>>107087805That's the whole fucking point of the thread. Did you read my original post?JFC, what the fuck is wrong with you, people? Like, fucking seriously? Just answer the questions FFS.
>>107087829>That's the whole fucking point of the thread. Did you read my original post?Youre a fucking retarded nigger.
>>107087808You have never used Qubes. It is debatable whether it even is a Linux disto.
>>107087829>You have to run iptables by hand in the host system for, say, port forwarding..Also, qubes has tons of plugins and stuff made by users (that might be backdoored lmao, but that's another topic)>>107087805>>107087832Why even type anything if you don't want to contribute? Elaborate or shut up.Again: Qubes is for security, Proxmox for versatility. Even with that in mind, Qubes comes pre-configured and can install VMs from the CLI, while Proxmox sucks at that so you have to do almost everything manually.Both systems will let you use your GPU inside VMs to run games, mine crypto, crack passwords and whatever else, but you won't be able to emulate Android inside a Qubes VM.Both can be used to separate scopes, but only Qubes come with a pre-defined security-oriented setup.You are told to choose one of these 2 options. Which one would you use?
>>107087898>Why even type anything if you don't want to contribute? Elaborate or shut up.You're not contributing anything either.If I go out into the street and shout retarded fucking nonsense I'm not contributing anything.
>>107087898Here let me spell it out for you OP, because youre so fucking stupid.If I ask someone, hey should I use this hammer to castrate myself, or this rolling pin, would I be asking a rational or sane question?No.
>>107087902>>107087929Filtered
>>107087898Proxmox is not a security tool. It's a fucking packaged hypervisor. It's meant to be an ESX alternative with some extra features.You are comparing apples and oranges and mad people are calling you dumb.
>>107087980>Proxmox is not a security toolNeither is Qubes. It's not a tool, it's a system that gives you some level of protection against attacks. Even then, the default user in the guest VMs is root.You can also harden Proxmox. You can even make it similar to Qubes in some respects, though you will never get to that level of protection (because Proxmox doesn't use a customized, reduced version of Xen).The question here has to do with usability vs security. You have to assume you have only those 2 options to answer it. Is that too difficult?I was looking for arguments in pro or against one or the other system (I've used both, and Proxmox sucks IMO), but I guess /g/ is not the place for this discussion kek
>>107088019>I've used both, and Proxmox sucks IMO... but I have to add: I have not used any of them in, at least, the last 4 years.
>>107087313These have different use cases, don't they?Qubes is for security-oriented applications, and it comes preconfigured with that in mind, sometimes at the cost of convenience to other applications.Proxmox is just for running many different virtualized systems... it's not so much for creating one single, unified desktop experience. Or am I missing something?
>>107088058Sure, and you can attach a GPU to a Qube or to a Proxmox VM and have a new desktop.To me, they are mostly the same thing (inb4 they are not), except Qubes is comfier and more convenient. E.g., Qubes comes with its own "router" VM and a bunch of other template VMs that you can use for anything, while you have to build the router and template VMs yourself in Proxmox.But, again, Qubes has its restrictions too... If you like having complete freedom, you have to work around the system or use another machine.
>>107088019>The question here has to do with usability vs security. You have to assume you have only those 2 options to answer it. Is that too difficult?Okay, I'm NTA, but I've been running Qubes for a while, so I'll do my best to answer:Qubes is meant to be somewhat of a "daily driver" desktop system for your personal computer, which is why it comes configured the way it does. Proxmox isn't really meant for that. I would probably gravitate towards Proxmox more for something like running my own local file share servers... not for my personal computer.Yes, they both can be used to run many VMs in parallel. But Qubes mostly leverages that as a security feature, while trying its best to keep the UX similar to that of a normal desktop operating system. For instance, see pic related. You have terminals and windows from separate VMs running under one unified desktop. That's much more usable compared to each VM having its own individual desktop environment.
>>107088152I had forgotten about the browser windows running like that kekStill, I guess the way I used Qubes in the past was not really conventional.. And running the browser like that kind of annoyed and worried me, because of how difficult was to copy and paste stuff (yeah, I know it's a security feature) and because of the kind of attacks that such "feature" (a VM window running inside the isolated host) could make the host be vulnerable to.Meanwhile, with Proxmox you can do that shit from inside a remote browser, or from a VNC session.In both cases you have the option to attach a GPU to a VM and run that as another "normal" desktop, though Qubes has some nice tricks (you can add users to the appVMs and configure them in a way that any calls to sudo have to be approved from or notified to the base OS).So, again, convenience vs security vs having to configure/"hack" shit...
>>107088292>In both cases you have the option to attach a GPU to a VM and run that as another "normal" desktop, though Qubes has some nice tricks (you can add users to the appVMs and configure them in a way that any calls to sudo have to be approved from or notified to the base OS).This is an option with other hypervisors as well, like KVM. If you just want to run a VM here and there, and/or just have a second desktop with a GPU passthrough, you could use any standard Linux installation with KVM.
>>107088292>because of how difficult was to copy and pasteYou literally just have to hold shift and ctrl at the same time to copy to different VMs.
>>107087555 virsh -h stupid mongolGayming/nested virtualizationSmells like hyprland tranny
>>107088306>you could use any standard Linux installation with KVM.Sure. I mean, that's basically what Proxmox is AFAIU, that + some other stuff.I wouldn't know how to make a remote system approve calls to sudo though. I think Qubes uses PAM or some shit?>>107088332And then you have to paste it.Proxmox has its own annoyances, though.>>107088379You obviously have no clue what nested virtualization is for, retard.Why do you even feel the need to vomit your useless opinion here? You are anonymous. There is no need to waste time "arguing", you mentally ill faggot.
>>107087808Low experience people try to make all their own shit and fail. In the end it's all a broken mess because they can't spin enough plates on their own to maintain everything that already existed done for them. But they just had to "make their own". So congratulations now your thing is shit and falling apart and never updated even though you could have picked the thing where as you sleep through the night people are ensuring whatever thing continues to work as it should.
>>107087313Proxmox has more eyes on it so it is more polished, which is, generally speaking, how things work... Generally speaking things that are niche are tacky and falling apart because they're made and maintained by one or two virgins somewhere.I could just be running the Debian server straight on the metal. In my experience I just did away with all the other shit like TrueNAS or whatever it was called, it was totally unnecessary... But at the same time I don't notice Proxmox is there and it does leave open options for snapshots before updates etc. so ultimately it's probably a good thing that it's there.You can also DIRECTLY share ZFS mounts now instead of having to mount it over NFS from inside the VM. This was added in a somewhat newer version of Proxmox and is one of the best features aside from the snapshots.
>>107088415Skill issues.
