>>107098092
Stop spamming your anti Linux bullshit. Fuck

>>107098092
bloat

>>107098092
No usecase over an archive if your system doesn't have a registry

>>107098092
>be me
>try update some Kodak shitware from 1.9 to 1.10
>installer says 1.9 is newer than 1.10 and refuses to update

No, in general the rejection comes from winusers complaining of the "Way of Linux" and berating the package system because they can't hoard their tiny collection of cracked software (this is irrelevant in current year because most privative software is a ""service""). Trying to explain them that there're safer alternatives is kinda a waste of time.
And unlike the Steam system you don't need an account to use and store packages.

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why do you think i hate installers?

>>107098132
>because they can't hoard their tiny collection of cracked software
It is a big collection of cracked software that has been serving me well for over a decade. If it works, I'll keep using it. I own all the programs I use, and I just just keep using them without an internet connection (which is impossible on Linux). I'm not updooting. Simple as.

>>107098361
After installation you don't need internet, and if you really want to have your own packages collection (that is the usual way to deliver software on Linux) you can archive the .deb automatically stored in "/var/cache/apt/archives/".
For people that wants to install a distro with extra packages but no internet connection there're ISOs with with a mirror of all packages normally available. Btw, you can mirror a full installation between different PCs having different specs and they'll run perfectly (with fallback open source drivers if there's new hardware without installed drivers)
After that running portable binaries, software for Windows (Wine), GOG games, etc is trivial, or it should be.

Now, if you don't want to use packages at all and run software only like windows then you'll hit a wall because the software supply chain for Linux is different (this is the frustrating part for both sides, IMO).

i hate installers on windows as well. just give me an exe.

>>107098465
There is no simple way to take a single program and automatically download all the deb packages it depends on and all the packages they depend on and so on and so on.
Even if there was, they would only be compatible with the exact same version of the exact same distro mostly. Linux barely has any compatibility between versions.
No need to sell Linux to me, I work on it for a living, but I'm not going to say distributing programs on it is not a stinking dumpster fire that's constantly being doused with gasoline by package-manager fetishist freetards with a stockholm syndrome for dependency hell.
>if you don't want to use packages at all and run software only like windows
That would be my preference honestly, that's why I like working with Docker.

>>107098682
Anon: . "Btw, you can mirror a full installation between different PCs having different specs and they'll run perfectly"
And try to do the same with windows, you can't, especially if you change of CPU, GPU, etc. I don't see your point when you can simplify things more than with W7/10/11 if that is your need.

Most Linux users are dented trannies, duh

>>107098682
>There is no simple way to take a single program and automatically download all the deb packages it depends on
i ship software on linux. i put all the dependencies sans system-exclusive ones in in the base folder (if they can't be statically linked, like if it's a proprietary dependency that only gives me a .so). there's never anything stopping you from doing things this way

>>107098101
you will never improve if you don't accept critique

>>107098132
>antipiracy
of course.... classic lintard corporate psyop

I just want a basic ui installer for installing the system, most distros have that, the rest of my programs I prefer to be portable same as under windows

>>107098998
>antipiracy
Being a second class user of spyware isn't an enticing idea IMO.
>3DMax? no, use Blender
>Gimp
>ffmpeg
>7zip
etc.
I know some projects like Libre Office are subpar, but just no.

Now if you're talking about media, PCSX, etc I have no problem, videos, emulators are ok but a lot of "cracked" software is malware and in current year can't be run offline, show me a linux user that likes the idea of SaaS, Steam is questionable, that's why I mentioned GOG.

i like installer
singular, my package manager is /the/ installer

>>107098092
>download rpm file
>click on it
>it installs through Discover
Where are you guys missing the installers on Linux?

>>107099064
>gimp
Stop recommending that piece of shit.
Rawtherapee for photo editing. Krita for raster graphics.

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>>107099112
I know that GIMPs is like a LO for editing, but in my case I absolutely need the combination of drawing tools + multi layer (and that still works with pics of 10,000×20,000 px) and things like the pixel counter.

>>107099182
>>107099112
I've been using Gimp for 20 years without issues. I've never even used Photoshop before.

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>>107099112
I can't believe you just recommended something that does picrel.
>not trying to offend, but normally I want to restric the file deletion rights to the FM/scripts

>>107099182
Krita literally has all of that though

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>>107098092
>>107098361
>It is a big collection of cracked
Let me make this simple installers are good repositories/app stores are slavery.

>>107098132
>can't hoard their tiny collection of cracked software
Translation
>You will own nothing and you will be happy
Found the retard!

>>107098465
>After installation you don't need internet
LOL lets see

Windows 98
>Hey I have this cool software friend how about you install it and give it a try?
(no internet connection needed)
>>WOW thanks very cool

Windows/Linux
>REEEE CONNECT TO MY REPOSITORY/appstore!

>you can archive the .deb automatically stored in
And they will not install in the right order and fail if you ever tried this.

>mirror
Oh yes because a mirror of 90% shit no one uses who takes several terabytes is so much better then a small installer.

> normally available.
NOT ON LINUX MINT!

Also you are peak retarded!

What if the dev decides to fuck up the software and the last version was the good version? You retards are unbelievable linux is worse for everything and this shows and I am the one who actually uses linux daily!

Linux spyware
>YOU MUST connect to the internet and let the spyware server know what you are installing!
>You can not install anything if no internet or the linux app store is shut down!

Installers give you power and control!
>OH YEA COMPILE FROM SOURCE AND
Look you retards can not understand that people do not want to spend 30+ days searching for a solution instead of simply using a installer!
>OH YEA COMPILE FROM SOURCE AND
How about you instead of complaining make your own hardware? Like build your own hardware from scratch instead of bitching that yours has the Intel/AMD management engine inside of it? Checkmate!

>REEE updoot! Insecure Insecure! UPDOOT!
FUD!!!
The retard speaks.
Nothing ever happens and I do not want to run the latest fucked up UI because the dev got a stroke.

>>107098465
>>107098682
>There is no simple way to take a single program and automatically download all the deb packages it depends on and all the packages they depend on and so on and so on.
Appimages say hello retards!
Only if there was a build in way for a distro to actually install the appimage in the OS from the start.....

PS: I know there are ways to install appimages however they require installing additional programs who actually are in repositories and need a internet connection, these programs can install the appimage in the OS.

PS2: No one gives a shit about system libraries and command line shit they all should be put together in one place and distributed as a service pack for the specific distro who also does not need a internet connection to work.

> but I'm not going to say distributing programs on it is not a stinking dumpster fire that's constantly being doused with gasoline by package-manager fetishist freetards with a stockholm syndrome for dependency hell.
SAVED!

Linux is basically a 100% enslavement system where you can not do anything. However there are many competing slavery countries (distros) with their own dictators (distro managers)

Installers are a hypocritical piece of schizo shit that's completely incongruent with even having windows installed
You care about being able to install shit without using the internet because? If you're poor and are struggling with internet access you're poor and you have shit hardware that's getting raped by windows bloat
muh privacy and air gap security? you're on windows retard, wrong priorities there

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>>107099112
>>107099277
>>107099182
>GIMP VS Krita

>Krita
Daily reminder Krita is 20 years old.
The Devs of Krita are to retarded to add a text tool to their cringe program.

The Krita text tool literally loses to MS Paint from 1995! WTF!

>>107099990
>You care about being able to install shit without using the internet because?
I want to be the one in control!
>Noo the devs/distro maintainers can delete your program and prevent you from installing it or reverting to the previous version!

> air gap
Imagine shitting on the superior security option!

>INTERNET! INTERNET! INTERNET!
You realize here is where everyone stopped listening to you right?

>>107100028
If you wanted control why are you on a closed source operating system that fights you at every step
No, the reality is that windows keeps losing value and you're reduced to weird copes like this where you pretend installing things faster and easier is suddenly bad

>>107098092
I don't get why you need an installer. you press one button and the application is installed. are you retarded?

Why do smartphone users hate installers?

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>>107100051
>No, the reality is
The reality is you lost the debate.

>why are you on a closed source operating system
Nice assumption retarded zoomer.
I used windows since 95, I did go hard into linux after win8.
The truth is that linux is shit because of its retarded repository system.

>closed source operating
Shilling the open source corporate shit I see! Real men advocate for LIBRE not open source!

>why are you on a closed source operating system
????
As opposed to being on the linux meme who is 3 steps away from running a 100% cloud OS?
>closed source
The open sos meme did not prevent linux from being shit that is controlled by mega corporation the difference is that you can chose from various mega corporations.

>a closed source operating system that fights you at every step
As opposed to? linux the meme os who fights you harder then windows ever did? WTF are you even talking about?

>to weird copes
This is literally the MINIMUM a OS needs to do I AM ON LINUX FOR YEARS you retard fuck!

The difference is that on linux you must updoot to the latest shitware of everything and if you do not like it.... Oh look the devs removed these old versions fom the repo. Meanwhile on win 98 (Peak windows) I can literally install the OS and its programs on as many computers as I like and with no internet connection and literally no one can stop me or know I am doing this. An it is simple and intuitive and WORKS!

On linux you updoot updoot updoot and if the OS gets bloated or the programs shit then you have to eat it up and buy new hardware once the OS stops supporting yours. The alternative is to literally become a sys-admin programmer combo and spend 9563456% more time and effort to get a old program to install in your shit OS. Or get a non bricked version of a old OS version for old hardware
>NOO REEE UPDOOT UPDOOT INSECURE

1/2

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>>107100051
>>107100276
2/2


> windows keeps losing value
Because normoids switched to using phones???

The difference is that linux and windows are basically becoming the same thing.

You have linux and the linux command line app store.
And you have windows and its windows app store.
They are essentially the same shit at this point. Except that windows has massive spyware build in now.

> a closed source operating system
Cool meme. While the GPL is important literally not one of you fucks can even interact with source code or change it for the better or not brick it. Meanwhile even a toddler can understand how to use a windows installer.

Do you simp so hard to be RMS IRL? The man who bullshits all day however literally can not install a operating system and others need to do it for him?

>>107100127
>you press one button
LOL

>>you press one button
IN WHAT?
Lets see
>Spend several minutes searching the name of the app in the app store
>[it got removed and you have nothing now]
>Look at the icons to find the right one
>Press install that requires a internet connection [!!!!!]
>Repeat this retardation for every app you want to install instead of having 1 folder with all your most used apps you can give to other people.

understand now?

>>107100276
>linux the meme os who fights you harder then windows ever did?
That's just not true in 2025. It hasn't been true for years. Though your low-effort English makes it clear your posts should not be taken seriously.

>>107100284
idk what the fuck you're talking about. what kind of retarded bullshit did you install on your computer?

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>>107100312
>I am EFL
Yes I know you are retarded.

>That's just not true in 2025. It hasn't been true for years
Red Hat/Fedora is literally wage cage the OS.
>NO YOUR PASSWORD MUST BE LONGER!
On a computer that only I use!

>Nooo you can not be root!!!!!!!
On a computer that only I use!

>just
Ignoring the rest of the facts that I posted! I accept your unconditional surrender!

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>>107100327
>idk what the fuck you're talking about
yes key words
>I DON'T KNOW
Yes you do not know.
Because you are stupid!

>what
It is about the principle retard however
MPC-HC Works perfectly
>REEEE DELETE THIS!
>REEE THE DEV SAYS YOU MUST DELETE IT!
>REEEE NO LONGER DEVELOPED!

However it works perfectly! Cry harder.
Also blender is turning to shit now. No need to updoot to new shit that makes working with it 800% slower if I can use a old version!

How about true Crypt? The software purged from the internet? Where the archives turn into peak NSA speak how you must updoot to new things?

>>107100327
>idk what the fuck you're talking about
Daily reminder that (you did not specify WTF you are using fagot) some RGB lights require some phone app to work the app was deleted 1 year after the release of this hardware....

Making this literally useless e-trash now!
Meanwhile the old lights from 1981!

Or that obscure windows 95 hardware that has everything on a CD.

Also some companies are deleting their driver and manual archives now.

>>107100500
Your message is literally indecipherable, holy fucking shit. Please just have an AI translate your drivel into English.

>>107100393
>>107100500
oh. you use windows. no wonder you're so mad. I forgot windows has an "app store" now.

Reminder
>app
program for a phone
>application
program for a computer

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>>107100793
Somehow I find that very difficult to believe.

Define what an installer is first.

>>107100793
Reminder
>program
program for a phone
>program
program for a computer

>>107100779
>oh. you use windows. no wonder you're so mad
“I liken starting one’s computing career with LINUX, say as an undergraduate, to being born in East Africa. It is intolerably hot, your
body is covered with lice and flies, you are malnourished and you
suffer from numerous curable diseases. But, as far as young East
Africans can tell, this is simply the natural condition and they live
within it. By the time they find out differently, it is too late. They
already think that the writing of shell scripts is a natural act.”

> I forgot windows has an "app store" now.
As opposed to the linux app store you have in your command line?

>>107100276
>shits this wall of mental illness out and STILL doesn't explain the insanity of being a security and control schizo while using windows

>>107100276
That's it
I read what you wrote and it was inspiring
I'm switching to linux

>>107098092
>type five letters and name of program
>it gets installed on my computer
why would i want gay ass installers instead of that?

>>107098092
They don't. Most popular distros (used in industry etc) come with graphical installers.

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>>107101295
because this confuses and enrages the windows user
they dont know wintrash has a package manager too, keq

>>107098132
.rpm, .deb etc are installers

>>107100779
apt, yum, dnf, pacman etc are app stores.

>>107101295
>why would i want gay ass installers instead of that?
Lets see
>Server down no way to install
>Devs delete the .deb on the server/repo can not install.
>Need internet connection for the repo to let him install programs.

Do I even continue?

>type five letters and name of program
Yea good luck remembering that name.
some of them have-extra-words

>>107101411
>.rpm, .deb etc are installers
1) COPE
2) LOL NO!

>.rpm, .deb etc
Will literally refuse to work if you do not have the required packages already installed!

>>107101302
>>107101421
This makes the loonix troon mad.
Like they think it is impossible to make a app store that has a command line interface on windows or something.

flathub clients and aur are faster, safer and easier to install shit from than random shit off the internet like you do it on windows
installers are a relic from when internet speeds were shit and if this is your nitpick you don't live in the real world because you're talking about the 0.1% of schizos

>>107101475
>1) COPE
>2) LOL NO!
Explain?
>Will literally refuse to work if you do not have the required packages already installed!
That's not correct, as it will install all the necessary dependencies through your package manager.

>>107101477
>safer
>NOO THE SAFETY!
Daily reminder that linux is the most insecure operating system in existence.

>than random shit off the internet like you do it on windows
The troon can not comprehend the idea of owning programs and not being a slave to his OS developers.

>>107101475
This has to be bait, but I'll bite.
>Server down no way to install
>Devs delete the .deb on the server/repo can not install.
>Need internet connection for the repo to let him install programs.
What if the server the installer is stored in goes down.

>>107101487
>Daily reminder that linux is the most insecure operating system in existence.
windows literally gives out kernel access like it's fucking candy on halloween

>The troon can not comprehend the idea of owning programs and not being a slave to his OS developers.
you are the 0.1% of schizos
no one is going to hold onto an installer for 10 years just in case

I kinda like appimages y'know.
I know they have their limitations, but for small tools they work so well. I just have a directory called applications that has all my appimages in it and its so neat and tidy.

>>107101487
>most insecure
um, I can run my web browser in a flatpak that prevents a 0day from literally reading my $HOME (%USERPROFILE% in Windows terms). Show me your app isolation stack on Windows. Oh wait, you don't have any.

>>107101528
Why would you even bother arguing it's obvious bait

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>>107101488
>What if the server the installer is stored in goes down.
This paused me.

>THE SERVER!
There is no server, the point of installers you zoomeroid is to store them on your own HDD. Before the internet you collected installers from CDs etc.

Even if you use the internet as a primary tool for getting them once you have them and collect them you have them forever. This is why devs have meltdowns that the are not little dictators who can do whatever they want with the software since the installers are always around on someones HDD.

Great example is MPC-HC.
Works great to this day however the dev has meltdowns how
>I Abandoned the project STOP USING THAT!

>>107098092
System installers? Or self extracting executables.
The former eh, probably pride. The latter is a dumb hack and I'm glad they're going away.

>>107101533
idk desu.
I see people say Windows is more secure professionally, and the security is always some faux bullshit that never works:
SmartScreen
about_Execution_Policies
Defender

I just don't get it.
Even in Enterprise environments, Windows AD lets you shoot your dick off with arcfour encrypted kerberos tickets, NTLM and other stupid shit features for "backwards compat." Calling anything Windows more secure than Linux is just straight bait posting I guess, but I don't understand the mindset.

>>107101539
Oh, then just keep the binary in your HDD, or a tarball or whatever. Easy. Compress it If you want lol. Do you keep installers for every single thing? That's retarded.

>>107099981
>Appimages say hello retards!
They still have dependencies, and they're incompatible with (L)GPL retardation. They are a step in the right direction, but they're not the magic bullet people online make them out to be.

>>107101564
How are appimages incompatible with the GPL?

>>107098092
installers are just glorified archive extractors

>>107101582
Basically this. They have scripts sometimes, but usually it isn't anything you can't replicate. On Windows it gets a bit hairy since they have more layers of weird you need to interface with, like COM or correctly registering your files so users can Add/Remove your installed program.

>>107101572
LGPL. I might be wrong about this, this license is so fucking retarded nobody actually knows how to satisfy it.

>>107101509
>windows literally gives out kernel access like it's fucking candy on halloween
And?
The antivirus will stop it.

Meanwhile on loonix once you go sudo it is literally GG forever no coming back.
>gives out kernel access
And why is this a bad thing? This is not a server I am the only user of my PC. It can delete my files even if it gets user access on loonix.
>Nooo b-b--b deleting system libraries!
No one gives a fuck!

Lets see windows
>Get some .exe from some website
>antivirus gets triggered and blocks this
loonix
>Get some .exe from some website because wine is a thing
>install it
>Literally no idea if it fucked the system or is good
You literally have nothing to stand on!

>no one is going to hold onto an installer for 10 years just in case
I do and I have them.
Do you not collect other things like pictures from the internet? No?

>just in case
And I know these cases.
The devs can not remove it from me and I still can use these programs.

>just in case
What if the dev fucks up the next version and insists this is better and the final one?

> for 10
I know examples of me coming back after 1 year to check out the next version only to see a NSA take down and no installers on website. Never forget True Crypt.

>you are the 0.1%
Once again you are a slave and can not understand the concept of OWNING something.
Please admit this
>Yes devs I love you deleting features from me!
>Yes devs I love being forced to update my hardware since the (2 year old) OS is no longer supported and the new version needs more powerful hardware!
The only question then is why the fuck you are even on linux and not on nu-windows

>>107101600
>Add/Remove
and repair* assuming the repair feature actually does anything useful. I don't think I ever did an actual repair and had it do anything useful, like ever. I suppose if you run the program as admin and it shits all over itself like some self-modifying code malware it makes sense.

>>107101560
>Do you keep installers for every single thing?
YES programs.

>That's retarded.
Why? You are the retarded one here.

>Oh, then just keep the binary in your HDD
And you will install this on a new OS (same OS version) how?
And you will install this without the package manager shitting itself how?

>Oh, then just keep the binary
Good for very small CMD utilities nothing else.
Try that with libre office!

>>107101613
this post assumes Antivirus' actually work. They can't solve the halting problem and it's usually trivial to obfuscate a program enough to avoid detection. It's so bad in that space, completely valid and non-malicious programs now get tagged as malware because other malware does it.

>>107101477
>safer
LMAO freetards love this argument.
>WAAAAAAAAAAHHH MOMMY MOMMY I'M AFRAID OF LE SCARY EXE FILERINO I ONLY INSTALL GOOGLE PLAY(TM), APPLE APP STORE(TM) OR AUR VERIFIED APPS
>*distro janny compiles malware code and pushed it into AUR*
>--ACK!

>>107101613
>the antivirus
jesus fuck, this is the state of people obsessing over installers in the big '25

>>107101477
I still don't understand MSIs.
I feel like they were really aiming for something like NixOS with the design, but then fucked it up and dumped Orca on people and told them to make do and tough shit. It's so assy, I can't understand it.

>>107101475
>Server down no way to install
>Devs delete the .deb on the server/repo can not install.
>Need internet connection for the repo to let him install programs.
ok if i'm gonna be autistic and keep installers on my pc, i just go on the website and press "download appimage" and that's it lmao.
>Yea good luck remembering that name.
-Ss and i get a fzf list along with descriptions.

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>>107101560
>Do you keep installers for every single thing?
Unironically yes.

>>107101646
>windows users cry about having to preemptively know what you're looking for
>linux introduces a fucking search engine
>windows users find a 2005 style nitpick to cry over
sad to see
in 2030 you'll be crying about linux not having comic sans preinstalled because that's how far the goalposts have moved

>>107101685
Even Windows Server 2025 has winget. It's over for them.

I thought Linux is all about freedom, what's free about being dependent on some gay appstore

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>>107101528
>in a flatpak
The loonix troon does not understand what a flat pack is.

> that prevents a 0day from
Daily reminder that loonix has shit loads of 0-days other then this.
This cope is pathetic!

>from literally reading my $HOME
And wine makes your shit OS compatible with every windows virus. And you can do nothing to detect or stop that.

>Reee do not run them
I have a better idea
> web browser
>INTERNET
Simply do not connect your PC to the internet!
WOW perfect security!

only loonix can not do that because installing something into an air gapped PC is ultra difficult because no installers.

>Ree I need my internet!
>internet is life!
Daily reminder that I have or did have super old PCs with Win 98 or XP who are connected to some old ass scanner or printer or other equipment or using a win 98 PC for media playback. Something you can not do on loonix since the OS devs insist you updoot every nano second.

Also current year loonixes will not even install on the old ass hardware that has win XP on it and works perfectly!

>Reee get new hardware!
Why the fuck are you not on apple shit or nu-windows?
Also I am not wasting money to replace perfectly working hardware!

>>107101564
>They are a step in the right direction, but they're not the magic bullet people online make them out to be.
I agree. The point is they are a example of how it is possible to do.

>They still have dependencies
The OS should provide some baseline for them to work the same way you get some GiBs for wine and its shit.

>(L)GPL retardation
No one cares.

>>107101696
You aren't, retard.

>>107101685
>freetard conveniently assumes everything he ever wants is available in his app store
Perhaps it is true, but that doesn't make it any less sad.
If you can get everything you want from a linux app store, you are a turbo normie.
The Windows way allows you to download and run whatever fucking program a literal who guy in Japan wrote in 2005 from the wayback machine and run it in 2k25. The program is yours. Whatever niche shit you want, it will probably just work. It's about thinking for yourself and making your own choices vs. having some authority do the thinking and make the choices for your. It is about actual freedom vs. jerking off about the idea of a certain kind of freedom that's not actually free but people gaslight themselves into thinking it is the best thing.

>>107101602
>LGPL. I might be wrong about this, this license is so fucking retarded nobody actually knows how to satisfy it.
Is it not the same for GPLv3 ? Because it magically switches into a hardware license and rants about running programs on everything with no restrictions?

I to this day do not know how anti-tivovization works or how it is a good thing.

I make a GPL3 program and someone makes a hardware that has a proprietary bios that will make a checksum and only run my exact program.

Who the fuck is guilty under GPL3 here?
Me?
I did not make the bios!

The bios guy?
He did not sign the license!

>>107101726
>The OS should provide some baseline for them to work
The OS SHOULD provide some baseline but it doesn't really do that. You can't have multiple versions of the standard library on your system like you can on Winodws.
And the retarded ass license forbids you to statically link shit too.

>>107101696
Stop asking questions, you will use gnome, you will use systemd, you will replace sudo with their gay ass retarded rewrite, you will only install shit you get from some slavnigger in a shack without running water 30 miles east of
Patrasuy responsible for making sure the packages aren't completely compromised by three letter agencies (AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA) and if you don't, don't worry you will be as free as the average person in the SU was to not be communist when they tell you to use their docker trannyware and most importantly: You WILL fucking call it freedom when the cuck in charge shits his pants again having a melty trying to kill any fs that isn't ext4.

>>107101637
>halting problem
COPE!

>this post assumes Antivirus' actually work
They stopped some suspicious exe I got from the internet back in the day.

> completely valid and non-malicious programs now get tagged as malware because other malware does it.
Yea only we literally have a way to make every program safe with no need to use an antivirus or any of that shit.

Running a EXE should be the same as running a MP3.
Only no one is doing that instead you get antiviruses and signatures/app stores on windows.....

And literally nothing on loonix other then a retarded app store
>Bro add my repository bro! It totally has the latest versions and shit!

the point is you are actively retarded if you think loonix is safe. Thanks to wine you have the compatibility with every windows virus with no way to unfuck your OS or detect it!
So do not even start with the
>Muh safety!

>>107101736
>actual freedom is depending on someone else who made shit in 2005 because no one made anything better and staying on ancient hardware
freedom to be living in fucking africa
i don't get what you winjeets gain by bringing up actual third world problems

>>107101747
>You can't have multiple versions of the standard library
What are:
chroot
fs namespace
flatpak
oci containers
appimage

If you look at NixOS, Guix or ostree using distros, they use content addressing which completely mogs anything Windows does.

On top of all that, nothing stops you from building software from source to target whatever sysroot you want.

>>107101656
>>the antivirus
LOL.
So how do you detect viruses on loonix?
You do not!

All it takes is for someone to add a

rm -rf / --no-preserve-root

Somewhere in the code and you are fucked.
>Oh yea however my system files will not get deleted checkmate
however every single file will you dumb fuck!

>I personally inspect every line of that 1 billion line code before running any program
Cool autism other people want to use a computer or have a life!

>>107101742
GPL3 is peak retardation.
>Because it magically switches into a hardware license
Yes, it's basically like
>you can run it on everything EXCEPT if your hardware is this or that EXCEPT when it's this or that kind of device
like fuck off, this is the same garbage as any other EULA that splits your ass in half when you license proprietary software except this one pretends to be free.
It is dangerous because the kind of thinking that gets you to believe this is more free than v2 is what gets you to believe AGPL/SSPL is in any way more free and better. This is also how europoors believe having no freedom of speech is ackshually more free than having freedom of speech lmao

>>107101646
Basically this and this comes from me who sues linux on a daily basis for real!

>>107101812
the law prevents you from being killed but someone can ignore it and then they'll get fucked by the law
do you live your life wearing a fucking gambeson and chainmail in public?

>>107101668
>i just go on the website
WTF do you think server is down mean?
This means no website you retarded fuck!

>>107101825
I use both Linux and Windows on a daily basis too, but it's impossible to criticize Linux without freetards getting all defensive and calling you a Winodws shill.

>>107101840
making false statements != criticism. (You) just don't know what you're talking about.
That's probably why /utwg/ is so big nowadays I guess.

>>107101807
Lots o fancy words to say 1) appimages, 2) flatpak, 3) docker.
>appimages
Not a full solution, as mentioned before. Also little adoption. Still can't link the ganoo c library statically.
>flatpak
Requires an app store. Seriously, they literally made a system that could produce downloadable installers and didn't implement the part where you can actually do that, instead they went all in on app stores.
Also zero adoption for CLI applications + sandboxing restrictions making it not suitable and incompatible in some cases.
>docker
Actually good and actually works, but not designed for end-user programs.

>>107100379
>I am EFL
Wrong. Mun äidinkieli on suomi, mutta se ei ole estänyt mua puhumasta englantia kunnolla. Älä käytä pajeetisuutta tai wetbackisuutta tekosyynä.

>>107101833
>>107101539
are you 12yo or genuinely retarded?
>but what if the server is down and you can't get an installer
>I ALREADY COLLECTED IT BEFORE
>well what if I collected an appimage before
>NO NO YOU COULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT THE SERVER IS DOWN
I can't imagine seething this much lmao

>>107101685
>comic sans preinstalled
Literally no one has or will complain about this.

>I am retarded and do not understand that my entire argument is blind faith in big corporations and their app stores.
>I am afraid to go outside of the app store.
Literally the only difference is that on loonix you have 30+ app stores often specific to your distro and you have blind faith in literal who troons in their basement or loonix devs who have a long tendency of literally going schizo and fucking up everything..

And then you go on random websites and start adding literally who servers as repositories because some guy did say to do it and it is named flat hub or some shit. Literally creating the worst of all possible worlds without any benefits.
>No Safety
>Random repo on github is not different from some random piracy EXE website in 2000s
>Trusted source is a joke at this point
>No antivirus to detect if you fucked your OS with some fucked up CMD tool that is malicious.
And the worst part
>You have no installers and you own nothing!

>>107101869
none of those have anything to do with my point though: you can have as many userlands on Linux as you want, simultaneously executing, including full blown DEs, including RDP desktops since it isn't locked behind some license bullshit too.

>>107101852
>this thing (cult) believes or does is retarded
>cultist: (You) just don't know what you're talking about.
Christcucks, Linuxfags, whatever, they all say the same thing.

>>107101905
feel free to make an actual technically sound claim. (You) still haven't.
It's just more noise about how your baby duck workflow, which is equally reproducible on Linux, isn't the norm.

>>107101915
Made plenty already.
>which is equally reproducible on Linux
Well fortunately for the world, Linux is easily reproducible on Windows, so I prefer doing that so I can actually use Linux for what it's designed to do while everything else just fucking works.

>>107101881
>virtue signals about security
>runs an outdated 15 year old os or a thoroughly bugged newest one
all this because you're buttmad that your third world problems with internet shortages aren't accounted for

>>107101736
>The Windows way allows you to download and run whatever fucking program a literal who guy in Japan wrote in 2005 from the wayback machine and run it in 2k25
Okay, then do that on Linux.

>>107101935
>Linux is easily reproducible on Windows
not really. only reason so much stuff works on Windows now is because M$ was forced to implement a working C99 CRT, \Device\Afd, unix sockets, futexes, and simply too many other concessions. Even with all this, there are still things that are hard to do on Windows, even using a pure Windows userland.

It's ok to admit (You) don't know ahything. >>>/utwg/ exists for a reason.

>>107101873
Made me think he was definitely baiting or he has a weird autistic fixation on the concept of a installer.
>>107101881
>You have no installers and you own nothing!
For some reason he places special weight on having the installer over literally any of the other ways you can have portable software. Again, bait or weird autistic fixation.

>>107101954
YEah, have fun fucking around with a VM because a binary like that ain't going to work natively. And no, you can't rely on people sharing source code.

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>>107101813
>>you can run it on everything EXCEPT if your hardware is this or that EXCEPT when it's this or that kind of device
Yea however who will be the guilty party in this scenario?
I have never seen a more schizo document in my life!

And that part can literally be unenforceable since it is incompatible with most law systems. Not even draconian EULAS and TOS do that!

Also I have to see an argument for why Tivoization is a bad thing for me.
1) Corporation makes some retarded TV gizmo
2) It is GPL2 code
3) They give the code back
4) They exploit retarded zoomers/boomers by selling them hardware boxes with literally free code inside that everyone can get on the internet!
5) I can install that code on a Pi or any other hardware that I own and run it.
6) Corporation gets money by exploiting tech illiterate retards.
I need someone to explain how this is a bad thing? It is literally a tax on technological illiteracy!

>b-b-b-b- I can not use their hardware
Is this not a HARDWARE license(impossible to enforce violates laws) at this point?
Or even
A OWNERSHIP PROBLEM?!?!

>b-b-b-b- I can not use their hardware
Yes Richard however I also can not shit in your home when you do not allow me to do that!

>>107101963
I don't know, WSL2 literally just works for everything I need it to do, so I'm content with it. It's the main system I use at work.

>>107101747
>The OS SHOULD provide some baseline but it doesn't really do that.
I install linux mint from CD/ISO with no internet connection.
I can run every appimmage I have on my flash drive.

Basically this.

> but it doesn't really do that.
The biggest irony is that wine does that for windows programs.....

>>107101971
Wine has better compatibility with old Windows programs than modern Windows does, lol.

>>107101971
being able to see the source code is a fucking foundation for obscure linux shit

>>107101736
>It's about thinking for yourself and making your own choices vs. having some authority do the thinking and make the choices for your. It is about actual freedom vs. jerking off about the idea of a certain kind of freedom that's not actually free but people gaslight themselves into thinking it is the best thing.
This.
and why i use linux.

>>107101986
>WSL2 literally just works!
until it doesn't since it's some half baked Weston compositor exposed as an RDP server that is crashy as hell for any GUI program I've ever bothered using.
Your "distro" is just namespaced and certain kernel upcalls break because of this.
Also, any distro that isn't some specific Ubuntu point release will likely have other bugs since WSL2 populates stuff like opengl drivers based on the ABI of that distro.
Thankfully you can now specify a custom kernel at least, so it's getting better. still a retarded cucked experience that's worse than just getting good at Windows if (You) actually know what you're doing, which you don't.

>>107101997
I think it still can't run fucking wolfrpg properly lmao

>>107098132
package manager sucks and they're the worst part of linux. retarded walled garden for retarded users
>inb4 microsoft store
nobody uses that crap.

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>>107101830
>the law prevents you from being killed but someone can ignore it and then they'll get fucked by the law
>MUH LAW!

To this day sierra did not face any consequences for their uninstaller basically deleting the OS.
Also works perfectly on loonix using wine!

What part of

No warranty!
No liability!

Did you fail to understand!?

>>107102031
tell me about the liability that microsoft faced over deleting shit multiple times over its lifespan

>>107102029
No one is stopping you from downloading random binaries

>>107102029
>walled garden
Nothing is stopping you from changing your sources, or downloading specific binaries.

Hate installers? I’m pretty sure they barely even exist in the Linux world simply because of the way Linux in the modern, internet age is designed compared to say Windows.

>>107101840
>ut it's impossible to criticize Linux without freetards getting all defensive and
These people are fucken retarded as fuck.
Do they really think telling lies is going to help their movement?
>Linux is so secure
FACT: Most insecure OS ever! Less secure then windows in all aspects!

>Repos are the best
FACT: They are literally slavery!

>Linux has the best compatibility
FACT: Compatibility depends and is never more then 80%. Also literal linux car meme if you do not use binary blobs.

>Linux great for old hardware
FACT: Windows XP has less requirements and gives a better performance on very old hardware.

>>107101852
>making false statements != criticism. (You) just don't know what you're talking about.
Other anon here. You are objectively wrong! Like literally wrong!

>making false statements != criticism.
FACT: Linux is the most insecure OS ever! Less secure then windows in all aspects!
This is based on fact after fact. You do a rm / anywhere in your code and your OS gets fucked. At least windows will try to prevent this. It only gets worse from there you can install keylogers and have no way to detect this or remove them on linux. Meanwhile on windows MS will try to push some update to remove crap like this.

Do you dispute this?
Do we continue?

>muh 0day on windows!
0) You lost the debate by changing the subject.
1) Yes and?
2) Linux has its own 0days also! What now?

Do you dispute this?
Do we continue?

>>107101869
Very good points.

>>flatpak
Is it not like
>Hey kids add this shady app store to your OS from the internet!
And having 100s of separate repos/app stores?

Making this the worst of all possible worlds? Like if any of the repos breaks or fucks up you get fucked?

>appimages
The best option has its own problems.

What it should be
1) Gigag Programs (libre office, VLC, Blender, GIMP)
>Installs in the OS
>Like appimage where it has all its libraries in itself
>Baseline to interact with this shit is provided by the OS on the ISO!

Can install in 3 modes
A) In the OS
B) Like a https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/qbittorrent_portable program on windows
C) The retarded appimage way of today [option for retards and degenerates]

2) CMD and system shit!
>Distributed as service pack installers
>Only from the OS developers and for this 1 OS however is a local installer
>Can figure out the correct order of installing the service packs without a retarded list from a web server!

>>107102126
>shady app store to your OS
You can get flatpaks literally from the devs like Google or Mozilla, but here's a (YOU)

https://flathub.org/en/apps/com.google.Chrome

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>>107102087
>smthstmh loonix smth smth
FACT: (you) are a massive fag

>I couldn't possibly be that big of a fag
FACT: (you) are currently sucking cock and fondling balls

>I am not
FACT: yes you are, and so is your mother

>my mom is not a whore
FACT: Yes she is. She is sucking my cock for FREE AS IN FREEDOM

>waaah waaah but I never learnt to use anything but windows
FACT: You don't have a job and have been putting effort to autistically argue here all day. Kys.

>>107098092
wtf is an installer?

>>107102185
It's a .zip for retards

>>107098092
>129 replies
shame

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Good morning.

>>107101873
>are you 12yo or genuinely retarded?
Are you?

>>I ALREADY COLLECTED IT BEFORE
YES! Or from a CD or from people exchanging files without the internet!

>>well what if I collected an appimage before
Everyone notice that the retarded child did write
>i just go on the website and
And this is literally impossible! If the website is down!

>>well what if I collected an appimage before
Cool. How many of you are doing that?
Also appimages are not a universal solution, not provided by your OS devs and not covering all the things you need running in the OS.

>on the website and press "download appimage"
What website? Actually curious!

>>NO NO YOU COULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT THE SERVER IS DOWN
I also can not get the installer if the devs website is down. The point was about keeping and collecting installers!
>are you 12yo
Imagine saying this to a guy who remembers pre internet computer life and installing programs from CDs and no internet!

>>107101966
>For some reason he places special weight on having the installer over literally any of the other ways you can have portable software. Again, bait or weird autistic fixation.
WTF do you mean portable software? What even is there on linux?

>>107101942
>>virtue signals about security
HUH? I only counter fags like you being obsessed how loonix is secure (it is the worst).

I never did give a shit I simply do not login into my bank on my PCs.

>>107101873
He's a youtard playing with his Claude.

>>107102199
>WTF do you mean portable software? What even is there on linux?
Doesn't sound like bait, he's probably just the retard type of autistic

>>107101915
>baby duck
You lost the argument here

>>107102192
but tarballs are common on Linux, why would Linux users hate that?

>>107102219
They don't OP is just a fag

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>>107101736
>f you can get everything you want from a linux app store, you are a turbo normie.
>The Windows way allows you to download and run whatever fucking program a literal who guy in Japan wrote in 2005 from the wayback machine and run it in 2k25. The program is yours. Whatever niche shit you want, it will probably just work. It's about thinking for yourself and making your own choices vs. having some authority do the thinking and make the choices for your. It is about actual freedom vs. jerking off about the idea of a certain kind of freedom that's not actually free but people gaslight themselves into thinking it is the best thing.
He speaks the truth.
I only change it to
OLD-windows VS nu-windows and its app store.

>t is about actual freedom vs. jerking off about the idea of a certain kind of freedom that's not actually free but people gaslight themselves into thinking it is the best thing.
I say it is more about independence and being in control.

>. jerking off about the idea of a certain kind of freedom that's not actually free but people gaslight themselves into thinking it is the best thing.
I swear these fuckers are 30% zoomers who think they are free because they use the hackermen app store in the cmd(because they never unplugged their internet cable or can not understand something that is not an app store) and some meme words from RMS and 70% corporate shills trying to meme you into their enslavement web OS possibly in collusion with MS to have some controlled opposition that does not really give you freedom and we will all use only app stores in the future. The only question will it be the Ubuntu/Redhat/Zorin linux app store or the windows app store.

>>107102029
>package manager sucks and they're the worst part of linux. retarded walled garden for retarded users
>>inb4 microsoft store
>nobody uses that crap.
He speaks the truth!

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>>107102041
>ell me about the liability that microsoft faced over deleting shit multiple times over its lifespan
NONE!
They did say
>Whops we are sorry we deleted all your files with our update.
And back to normal!

>>107098101
This.
Anti-linux is anti-trans, OP is a biggot nazi fascist antisemite.

>>107102179
I accept your unconditional surrender!

They feel superior for typing manual commands.

>>107102280
>"gargle gargle I can't stop sucking cock "
Ok fag

>>107102175
>like Google or Mozilla,
How about that one guy who makes a small program lets say yt-dlp ? How about these guys?
>b-b-b-b- le google le big corporation says
Walled garden and corporate worship.

>Ree noo I can have the google app store
>And the mozila app store
>And the Ubuntu app store in my OS so I am free

You can also get the random schizo app store.

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>>107102192
>>107102185
>wtf is an installer?
>wtf is a computer
This generation is lost!

>>107102214
>I can not name what I mentioned
I see.
Another debate won!

>>107102313
>dunning kruger effect

>>107102297
>How about that one guy who makes a small program lets say yt-dlp ? How about these guys?
How about him? He's making software to get around copywirte?
>>b-b-b-b- le google le big corporation says
>Walled garden and corporate worship.
Schizo posting.

>>107098092
Only Nazis use installers.

>>107102331
>How about him?
People like this also can make a repo and you can add this hope he will not go schizo or fuck up so that after you run yt-dlp you do not get a rm / !

>Schizo posting.
Thanks for admitting I am right!

>>107102390
>People like this also can make a repo and you can add this hope he will not go schizo or fuck up so that after you run yt-dlp you do not get a rm / !
How does le magic installer prevent this?

>>107098132
>this is irrelevant in current year because most privative software is a ""service""
Are you retarded? You know you can still install Photoshop CS6 and Vegas Pro 15, right? Like, you can still install old versions of software and they work alright.

>>107102390
>People like this also can make a repo and you can add this hope he will not go schizo or fuck up so that after you run yt-dlp you do not get a rm / !
Your whole point originally was...>shady app store to your OS
I pointed out big devs like Google and Mozilla use it the store and it has verification.

>Thanks for admitting I am right!
Ok

>>107102397
>Yea however what about other thing!
Look retard you are the one who ranted how great it is to have lots of app stores.
I point out that it is not different from random EXE from random website since some programs are made by 1 guy.
Then you go about
>Muh google (this is a good thing)
and
>muh SJWzilla (this is a good thing)

>How does le magic installer prevent this?
They don't however you changed the subject.
The subject was

>>flatpak
Is it not like
>Hey kids add this shady app store to your OS from the internet!
And having 100s of separate repos/app stores?

This is me making a QUESTION on this subject.

>How does le magic installer prevent this?
The point is that a installer is better then this cluster fuck because the dev can not remove the program or kill it.

Something that was a real possibility in the case of youtube-dl you ranting how flathub is not a literally worse version of installers is comical and wrong!
It is literally
>Hey kids run my EXE installer
VS
>Hey kids add my flathub to your OS!

Only flathub is worse in every way. Understand now?

>>107102390
>rm /
also what do think this is 1993? lmao

>>107101754
honestly this
linux on the desktop has just become tolerable as windows become intolerable but really it's just switching from one self righteous dictator to the next

>>107102441
>I pointed out big devs like Google and Mozilla use it the store and it has verification.
LOL you still can add the street schizo flathub to your OS and get fucked!

>only trust big corporations!
WE are back to the same shit wile we have with only 1 app store at this point negating any benefits of having more then 1!

>Muh repos
Are shit.

The point is that a installer will prevent the dev killing the program hard. All your other solutions are the same cloud OS (this is a bad word) bullshit slavery with no protections other then
>Do not go outside the big corporate app store!

Something that is not even an argument since you can say the same
>Only download installers from a big known website.

>Muh verification!
>Muh google verification!
And a website can not do the same because?????
You literally have no argument here!

>>107102504
>linux on the desktop has just become tolerable as windows become intolerable but really it's just switching from one self righteous dictator to the next
This one gets it.

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>>107102510
>LOL you still can add the street schizo flathub to your OS and get fucked!
It's in a sandbox retard.
Go back to (reddit) plep.

>>107102510
"Hey guys you should store every installer for every program you want just in case the whole team of maintainers in every distro goes crazy at the same time. This totally cannot happen to my manually installed apps once I hit the update popup"

>>107102548
>It's in a sandbox
Explain! And how it can prevent rm / and not legitimate uses like yt-dlp downloading files into your folders.

No sorry linux has the retardation of 777 not the access -> create -> delete split.

>>107102553
>"Hey guys you should store every installer for every program
YES.

>the whole tea
Or the 1 team who makes it.

Remember MPC-HC!
Remember True Crypt!

Also youtube-dl (they did go around it legally)

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>>107102579
>Explain! And how it can prevent rm / and not legitimate uses like yt-dlp downloading files into your folders.
>No sorry linux has the retardation of 777 not the access -> create -> delete split.
I'm not teaching Intro into "how not to be a newfag 101" Look up in your own time, "Containerized Environments" " Privileged Sandboxing" add to your reading.

>>107102553
>hit the update popup"
Oh I see the problem you should never hit the update button you go to the developers website and download a whole new installer for the new version.

>b-b-b-- the developer spamming you with notifications and shit
Shhh child if a program is interesting or good the user will look if there is a new version on his own. If not it doese not deserve to be updated or even speak.This is the only correct way!

>>107102628
>Look up in your own time
I accept your capitulation.

>muh sandboxes
Cool.
However why is that not a installer that has the same thing? Why a retarded repo?

>muh sandboxes
And this will prevent the dev from fucking up the program or removing it how?

>>107102653
>I accept your capitulation.
>samefag Indian

>>107102579
chrooted namespace with setuid disabled

>>107102087
>At least windows will try to prevent this
it doesn't. you can Remove-Item -Recurse -Force C:\ as well. best that would stop you are some ACLs on "System Installer" owned crap, but you'll still be ass fucked.

>>107102087
>You do a rm / anywhere in your code and your OS gets fucked
Literally every, and I mean every modern distro will prevent you from running sudo rm /.

>>107098092
>le question cat
Here's a you for u:
(You)

>>107102653
Literally how retarded are you? Honest question.
Literally what the absolute fuck is with this thread? Go away. Bug someone who gives a shit.

devs can enshittify any and everything. if you don't have the source code, you are at their mercy. full stop.

>>107102019
>>WSL2 literally just works!
>until it doesn't
Haven't encountered anything like that yet, so I'm good.
>it's some half baked Weston compositor
I don't know what gender that is
>>GUI program
>using GUI programs on Linux
shiggy diggy
>retarded cucked experience that's worse than just getting good at Windows
>NOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T USE LINUX FOR WHAT LINUX IS GOOD AT AND WINDOWS FOR WHAT WINDOWS IS GOOT AT BECAUSE THAT'S...LE KEKED OK???

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>>107102553
>dude just rely on the app store, you will get the latest version not the outdated cra--

>>107098092
usecase for installers on Linux? they were made to customize where you put the files, that's not so important on Linux, it's standardized

>>107103887
extreme schizophrenia and mistrust of everything that goes on your computer despite being able to review all the code and a desperate attempt to move the goalposts over how much easier it's become to install software on linux

>>107102313
Sorry I'm not familiar with your legacy OS.

>>107098092
I think flatpak was supposed to solve this so you can have normal software distribution on linux that just works but linux users started having a melty as they always do when anyone tries to make the operating system actually functional.

>>107104108
New methods are always welcomed, that's why almost nobody compiles all their software in Linux, but there're people here asking to kill all the repository system, the software supply chain of GNU/Linux, they're either retarded, trolls or bad faith actors.

>>107100793
first desktop computer i ever used called apps apps and that was 30 years ago

>>107104150
>the repository system
It's a bad system. Developers should control distribution, not rando maintainers for some obscure distro. This is how you make things just work. You allow developers to ensure their software is packaged properly and running in the right environment to work properly.
Maybe some developers don't want to do that, in which case, and only in that case, a distribution-specific "package manager" reasonable.

>>107104355
is reasonable*

>>107104355
You're either retarded, a troll or a bad faith actor.
The repository system allows a cheap and low noise way to transmit safer software, that's why OS companies also use it.
Even Steam has its own repository sub-system (but with extra licenses unrelated to open source).

>>107104422
to transmit software in a safer way*
Btw most attacks to linux are people trying to get in the coding side of a project (the only reliable way to inject malware in a repository and affect a lot of people) or injecting malware on a binary/ISO download page that are way easier to hack than the repository system

>>107099958
Say this again but in a less deranged way

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>>107098132
>troonix nigger calling anyone poor
LMAO

Reading people complains about repositories (you can still use binaries, installers, ...) is like reading africans complaining about tap water and having sewage.
>bro remove those pipes, use buckets and shit in a hole

How do people have so much time to write all this nonsensical bait? More importantly, why the fuck are people replying to it?

>>107104685
I only replied the post that weren't obnoxiously retarded and troll, the rest? I just reported them but mods are too busy being dipshits, as per usual
>inb4 being banned while the dipshits of the jak ch4n are spared.

PS: Kill yourself RAPE APE, GFYS goodsmile, KYS Hiroyuki Nishimura

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>true freedom is when you're dependent on some gay furry managing your appstore

>>107098092
90% of installers these days basically just pull from a proprietary repo anyway. There is value in Windows' long term backwards compatibility for installers that don't need internet, but wine/VMs are also pretty good (not perfect). Unless there's a rootkit that will brick your PC unless you have the latest windows, your installers should work fine.
It just makes more sense to use command line.
You basically just type
>install x
>x installed
As opposed to:
>open browser
>go to install.x.com
>wait for it to load
>click "download"
>click "downloads"
>click "install x.exe"
>click "next" a dozen times

>folder full of old installers
what is this, 2005?
i admit i was using linux in 2005 and this was a minor annoyance, or rather just something to get used to. the main reason i used windows installers was during a windows reinstall, something which is both much rarer in linux and you can use your package cache when reinstalling or setting up a new machine anyway. if anything linux handled your "folder full of installers" for you, as a standard function.
if i wanted a new program, chances are i was getting it from the internet anyway, so what does it matter if it's with a package manager or a web browser?

i've used windows a lot, and i too had a folder full of installers for a long time, longer than it was useful. over time as internet speeds got faster i found myself just downloading the newer version of something rather than using my existing installers which could be months out of date or more, and eventually i stopped using it altogether. it's still there, last time i replaced anything in there was 2 years ago and i don't see myself using it for any reason anymore. like when am i going to install a 10 year old version of Picasa, or a 6 year old copy of PuTTY, or a 5 year old copy of the Steam installer? by the time i check if anything in there is up to date, i could have just downloaded it again anyway, so what's the point?

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>>107105140
and more to op's question, i wouldn't say i hate installers, though i do prefer central package management, it's just tidier that way, everything is handled in one place and every file is accounted for. no need for program-specific uninstallers that may or may not clean things up properly, or worrying about them putting stuff in strange locations, etc.
you can do installers on linux, like GOG games use a windows-like installer. it's less than we can't and more that we don't need to, we already have a better system.

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It's not complicated at all.

>>107105140
On Windows, "owning a program" was absolutely important before the internet, and even after the internet, because most good programs were proprietary and/or paid. If you have a program, you can reinstall Windows on whatever computer you want, and nobody can take it from you.
Of course you can download freeslop usually, but not always. There have been free programs which have been nuked by DMCAs or mentally ill developers, and some versions definitely became lost media.
>like when am i going to install a 10 year old version of Picasa
I use a 12 year old version of Photoshop, and it works just fine.
Freetards don't understand that most programs are not free and open source, and that people actually want to use older versions. No wonder all you get from them when you ask about old versions or certain features is
>use case?
>why would want to use that?
>just updoot
>just use [something else] instead
People on Windows are used to the programs they have. Microsoft fucking delivered by giving people backwards compatibility.

>>107098092
Because I don't wanna get buttfucked by a dozen web browsers, adware and toolbars that is installed alongside.

>>107105334
>by giving people backwards compatibility.
There's a reason why some people keeps using Win98, XP, 7 (see EE or audiofags complaining about that all the time)
Some programs aren't as back compatible as you believe and being restricted to legacy hardware isn't funny.
>PS. Things like libSDL killing some 15 years old programs should be fixed with some way of sandboxing from the package manager (even if the program runs 2-5 times slower) because right now there's an unnecessary "dependencies" that some people tries to ignore it with the excuse of security

>>107105334
sure, i understand there's some situations like paid software you can't use a newer version of without paying for it again, or proprietary software that got worse over time.
but op is talking about linux. in linux this is a different story, most people are using free software on linux, updating them is free, and most foss don't get worse over time, so there's simply far less situations where you might want to use an outdated copy of a program in the first place

>>107105443
And when a project goes too far there's a fork/alternative, ie:
>Gnome -> Cinnamon/Mate
>X distro -> Y distro probably reusing most things of X but without some problematic parts

>>107105334
>>107105443
oh and, you can run old software in linux if you want to. like i still use openbox which hasn't had a release in 10 years, and g15daemon which hasn't had a release in 17 years
>>107105485
there's that as well, when something /does/ diverge such that enough people consider it worse than an older version, they tend to be forked, so everyone is happy

>>107105428
It is pretty much as compatible as I believe, and not as compatible as you would like to believe I believe. Hardware support is obviously not perfect, and there are niche cases where it makes sense to use an older version, but overall, MS has done a pretty good job with compatibility.
Once you release a program for Winodws, it will usually keep working for decades. When you release a program (binary) on Linux, it's incompatible with half the systems on day 1. With a bit of exaggeration.
>>107105443
Even for free software, I will never feel comfortable with the whole "but it's in the app store bruh just download it again" mindset. I don't trust anyone to deliver anything. I only own what I own.
>>107105485
>fork
Yeah, and append "sneed" as a prefix, right, lol.
Sounds good, doesn't work. Not for 99% of programs.
>>107105516
>you can run old software in linux if you want to
Maybe with Docker and/or VMs, and/or if you have the source code. But you are right that it's not like Linux has a lot of useful old software to offer.

>>107105575
And to add to that, we get back to the point of Linux being a server OS. There's no denying this.
On a server, it's a lot easier to say you want your software to be up to date, because it's true. Linux still makes installing shit needlessly convoluted. There's no reason why you couldn't have both. Nothing justifies sharing dependencies for ever small program in 2k25.

Jesus Christ just a quick skim of this thread gave me brain damage. How do you retards continue arguing these same retarded talking points endlessly for years? I'm not even just talking about one side of it either even if I have a bias

>>107098092
What is a package if not an installer? It just doesn't ask you questions because what's the point of clicking "next" 5 times.

>>107105619
>Linux still makes installing shit needlessly convoluted.
Trying to install GTAIV or Arma 1/2 in 2009 was the most convoluted thing imaginable, besides needing 2 social accounts at minimum...
Steam is a packet manager and it's incredible popular, if you use the compatibility options it gets complex. Synaptic is a "click and go" level of installation, I don't see what you mean by convoluted when most software works and has a compatible version or successor (like pdftk -> pdftk-java youtube-dl -> yt-dlp).

>>107098092
>Why do Linuxfags hate installers?
Because it needs to be built from source for 'insert whatever archetecture here' and they wished windows users suffered like they do at the annoyance

>>107105706
I fucking hate steam too. I literally have to crack the free games I get from steam because no other site bothers to "pirate" them.
Linux package management is not like Steam though. And even on Steam, you usually get basically portable programs installed in a single folder, not like on Linux where everything is sprayed around all over your system, including 200 dependencies and their config files and their default config files, etc.

>>107098361
>own all the programs I use, and I just just keep using them without an internet connection (which is impossible on Linux)
LOL what? Why? Just save the packages the same way you save your windows installers. I did that for years when I used Slackware.

>>107105772
> 200 dependencies and their config
Windows typical dependencies before W10/7
>the correct version of driver (that usually is the newest)
>newer version of directX
>MS distributables
>.NET 1.0
>.NET 2.0
>.NET 3.0
>.NET 3.5
>OpenAL
>some anti cheat installer
Most installer had all those as redundancy, if you install them manually you have to do it in the correct order. You didn't have to configure any of those.
And no, you don't use the "config file" of libSDL, Vulkan, Allegro, curl or another dependency..

And you can establish target directories in linux for each installation, it just that the default is good enough or better. Windows would get messy and problematic after installing 10-30 programs, the Program Files would look like a clusterfuck because some installer would create multiple folders and you still had the execution-space/part of the config files in a different folder. In general only very old games were fully contained in a single folder, the rest just sprawled something that makes backup/portable with the saved games impossible.

>>107105875
>>some anti cheat installer
Stopped reading there. Normalfags need not apply. No wonder you guys fucking love app stores.

>>107105899
Good luck playing online in 2008 without that proto-spyware.

>>107098092
As a reluctant winfag I hate installers and don't particularly like pacmanagers either. If a program doesn't absolutely NEED to "register" itself in the system or download a shitload of dependencies, it should just be a zipped folder with all the files.

>>107098092
They hate things being easy. They need to use le ebin hacker terminal with green font and figure out 5 commands to install telnet. Simple and functional = bad in Linuxland.

>>107098092
they like to think they're hackers typing commands into a black window