>>107127418
Dang, if only their housing wasn't so unaffordable

>>107127418
It is here in Maine. That's for sure.
>2nd least amount of sunlight in the first world
>let's give billions to obama's solar buddies and massive kickbacks to the hillbilly mafia that run the West Virginia of New England!

used to be, now the Chinese make panels for pocket change and batteries for even less.
>>107127439
you can still save a fortune in heating with solar boilers with a gas/eletric support.

>>107127418
If you're pushing electricity into the grid you're doing solar wrong.

>>107127439
>2nd least amount of sunlight in the first world
You're exaggerating, all of Europe is farther north and often cloudier

…But yeah. Not even tropical countries bother with solar unless some government is paying for it

>>107127418
No, but it will require of a "programmable" load (to not say smart demand). There're a lot of energy intensive industries that can work intermittently
For countries with laws too mediocre to allow that kind of things it would be a waste of electricity.
But hey, at least you aren't feeding decadent countries.

nvidia should fuck off to australia.

>>107127590
>tropical countries
Ah yes, we should heed the wisdom of.... Indians, Africans, Indonesians, and Brazilians.

>>107127590
>You're exaggerating
Of course. It just sounded more dramatic that the 2nd lowest sunlight state, so I went with it.

>>107127715
>panels shrinks in a few seconds
The Great Artificial Intelligentsia. The GAI

>>107127590
>Not even tropical countries bother with solar unless some government is paying for it
Brazilian here.
We have solar in every other house. Even favelas have solar panels because they are so cheap and efficient.
Just so you understand.
We have not built a single hydropower plant in almost 20 years (thank you, corruption), and we have to close hydropower plant doors at peak usage because there are so many people with solar panels...
We produce more solar power from residential sources than some countries in Europe do with all their sources.
It's crazy how wrong you are.

>>107127928
>cheap
Subsidized bro. Panels aren't cheap irl. He wasn't wrong.

Holy cope, lmao even.

>>107127951
There is no subsidy outside the first world.
It just happens that panels are incredibly cheap nowadays.
Seriously, look up how much a 600W panel cost on AliBaba.

>>107127590
He said the first world, Europe hasn't been part of the first world since 2015.

>>107128009
I forgot. You guys can just string whatever up in your own homes. Here we have to hire a licensed boomer for $300/hr to sleep in his truck while a $100/hr x'er supervises a couple of Mexicans for everything above and beyond painting. It's the law.

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>>107127590
>…But yeah. Not even tropical countries bother with solar unless some government is paying for it
I dunno about elsewhere but my tropical country has some of the cheapest electricity in the world so, not really cost effective. The electrical company makes it a pain in the ass too, they don't want to deal with you trying to add solar to your home.
The installers here are also making you pay like 5 times as much for inverter and supplies.

That said some people are doing it, and the government is too.

In Australia - no
In California - no
Everywhere else
yes

Had a quote from installers with batteries and 19 panels for 40k. Just looking at their itemized pricing for shit, they were asking like $10k for an enphase IQ 5.

Problem with subsidies is they just jack up the price by the percentage of tax subsidy.

>>107128057
>You guys can just string whatever up in your own homes.
Nothing that a YouTube tutorial doesn't cover. Don't forget to get your work-safe insulated shoe (a flip-flop with the Brazilian flag on it).

>>107128120
I do all my own electrical anyways, but if the boomer fatasses at town hall ever found out I'd be tried for crimes against humanity. The US is gay.

>>107128103

Exactly the problem with all subsidies, thats why medical shit is so overpriced.

>>107128151
Same.
But because I don't trust any electrician. You really don't need any sort of education to claim to be an electrician here in Brazil (the only reason our homes are not burning nonstop is because they are made out of bricks and concrete). And our code is most like a "suggestion" for most of them.
I rewired the house my sister brought a few months ago. The whole house only had 3 circuit breakers and no grounding and no RCD...

>>107128170
Same with rents too. Section 8 rates are the lowest a landlord will charge. The literal floor, and they're pretty in most areas. Definitely beyond what would be comfortable at median salaries for any given region.

>>107128204
Yeah, the licensed guys think they're fucking surgeons or something up here. You just glance at a chart for load on a circuit, make sure the connections are tight and the wires aren't exposed, and you're good to go.

>>107127677
kek

>>107127418
Doesn't sound like it.

>>107127418
no but the installers are.

>>107127677
So you don't need TSMC?

>>107127418
Solar, the way it's being done, is a scam
>replace hundreds of acres of good farmland with solar panels
>because people don't need to eat or anything
Residential is worse
>put solar panels on your house
>need to get the roof replaced 15 years later
>no roofing company is going to work around them
>you've gotta call the solar company to remove the panels and then reinstall them on the new roof
>hail comes through
>insurance doesn't pay because you need a special rider on your policy to cover the panels
>when they quit working there's no place to recycle them and you have to pay to dispose of them

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dyson sphere when ?

>>107128459
What is it about solar technology in particular that people go to such great lengths, performing feats of mental gymnastics, in order to justify being against it?
>need to get the roof replaced
Seriously, wtf.

>>107127418
the only time solar panels make sense is offgrid.

if you are gonna plug into the grid you may as well use nuclear.

>>107128524
>Seriously
Are you unfamiliar with roofs needing to be replaced every 20 years or so.

>>107128562
Only Americans use asphalt shingles. You will be suprise in learn that a roof outise the US has a life of 70 years or more.

>>107128562
Which is why I have a metal roof here

>>107128584
Must be nice, but it do be like that.

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>>107127928
Not truth

>>107127418
People are falling for this in every direction where I live. The common thing that gets re-iterated most often is the idea that not only do solar panels mean free electricity from the sky, but also the electric company is going to have to pay the homeowner for the excess un-used electricity the pannels will feed back into the electric grid. I actually smirk when some rich person I don't like falls for it. It just backs up my suspicion that these people are born with advantages that lead to wealth by luck rather than actual intelligence. But then occasionally I cringe because someone I've been friends with for years ends up buying into this crap, and there's no talking them out of doing it. All I can do is watch and facepalm as it all unfolds. First they're told someone's going to cut the branches away from the roof of their home for free, and they end up having all the trees cut down completely on their property (thus devaluing it) and get billed for it. Then comes the panel installation on top of the OLD roof rather than putting a brand new roof on the house for free first as part of the deal (which they were assured would be done too). Then comes the install fee that they said they'd never be billed for. Then the electric bills start coming in and they're higher than they were before, then the spouse gets pissed, then the panels stop working and nobody shows up to fix them, then....

>>107128524
My homeowners insurance wants the shingles replaced every 15 years or else they won't cover leaks and water damage. Even if you use high quality 30 year shingles.
>>107128584
What do you use?

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>>107127418
Making solar panels and wind farms is a lot more polluting than just continuing to use coal and natural gas for electricity.
Nuclear is what we should be aiming for, but the money just went into the renewables scam instead.
If you got rooftop solar, you have been scammed and will never make back your investment.

>>107128733
>america can't into reprocessing
LMAO even.

>>107128733
what happens to spent nuclear fuel again?

>>107127418
Solar Freaking Roadways

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>>107128818

>>107128763
It can be processed into another Isreal fuel source, but lefty fags won't let us build more than one such processing facility. Environmentalists aren't serious avoid the actual "problem" they build their lives around.

>>107127418
Not in the slightest. Basically got rid of my electric bill by covering the roof in them. Local utilities also comes out to check them out once per year to make sure they're still working good.

>>107128872
>Isreal
Weird autocorrect
*usable

>>107128459
>no roofing company is going to work around them
It depend on the company. Lot can work around anything. I'm guessing they're just a bunch of brackets, panels, and some cables. You people making it sound like you're installing a space hubble telescope.

>insurance doesn't pay because you need a special rider on your policy to cover the panels
Only thing I know about them is I've glimpse at some of the solar company contracts and in the US at least, have a warranty of up to 20 years. The same amount of time its recommend to get your panels replaced and your roofing so surely you can save up for regular home repairs in 15-20 years. One solar company I saw that wasn't forced on homes also did testing around your home and estimates on all the cost before letting their costumers install shit that isn't going to give any returns in the next 5-20 years so I don't see how this shit is a scam unless you need to pay an arm and a leg just to get testing done. But like I said, I only glimpsed at some of these solar contracts.

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>>107128733
>Making solar panels and wind farms is a lot more polluting than just continuing to use coal and natural gas for electricity.
source?

>>107127418
People who live in shitty areas where the sun never shines are jealous of how good it is and they're going full on fox and the grapes.

Solar power gave my dad cancer and raped my mom!

>>107127418
i bought a panel for 50 bucks with a goddamn controller and everything and it charges a 12v to max in like 3-4 hours.
i use it after hurricanes since it can take a couple days for power to come back.
i have zero regrets. if i time it right we can charge it twice in one day and then notonly use it to power devices and other things but also use it to power a family member's cpap at night
i literally have zero regrets.

>Nevada is attempting to raise rates to make solar owners pay more
Depends where you live

>>107128242
Residential? Sure, no one cares if you burn to death in your styrofoam and toothpick house.
Otherwise electricians are the most educated of the trades because of how dangerous it is, though the best of them aren't running your romex and leaving it to one journeyman and his helpers

>>107127418
Big time. Just another debt scam getting people into god awful 15 year loans at 12% on equipment that will have to be replaced in 8.

>>107127418
>Sell
>Free
I'm a retard what the fuck does that mean? How are they selling you something they need to give for free? What are you paying with?

>must be opt-in
>if you do, then electricity outside of the window is more expensive, but the 3-hour window is free
>window is between 11:00 AM and 2:00 PM
NEETs rejoice.

>>107127418
>buys a $1500 iPhone or Samsung every 2 years
This is fine
>sees a $2500 5KW solar system that lasts 25 years
This is a scam, coal and gas is better!

Why are normies like this?

>>107127418
>The Australian government is floating a scheme that would share the benefits of solar power with everyone on the grid, offering totally free electricity to ratepayers in the middle of the day, when the sun is shining the strongest.

How is that a scam

>>107129419
Because they will increase prices for the rest of the day. No company is going to willingly lose money.
Most people aren't home during those hours so the benefits are minimal.
For those with EVs, they charge overnight, which can't take advantage of solar.

/g/ was praising it when it was an expensive new shiny tech that allow them to live outside the grid and not pay the electric jew
Now that it has become affordable and have a huge push from the left, /g/ being the contrarian it is, now hate it

>>107127418
>sell free

>>107129500
Because they're well trained "contrarians"
When the US was making solar panels with a efficiency of 5% - 15% and heavy metals (CdTe) they were ok, now? CHYANA bad.

>>107129509
>yeah bro, just have your entire energy infrastructure dependent on china, nothing will go wrong bro. globohomo never fails

>>107129544
Is some racial question that americans wouldn't be able to refine silicon and make their own solar cells? oh wait, the cause is [long text of redacted content that would be ignored anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ]
As long as China and other countries can keep progressing I don't care.

>>107128733
Nobody wants to live near a nuclear plant.

>>107129544
Maybe next time don't tell your allies to go fuck themselves as China does trade deals with the world for RMs.

>>107128763
Depleted uranium? We make tank armor out of it as well as bullets

>>107129759
>he doesn't knows the difference between DU and spent fuel

>>107128915
A 20 year warranty is only good if the company is around in 20 years. But a warranty also doesn't cover storm damage.
The hospital my mom works at got its rooftop solar wrecked by very severe wind gusts two months ago, and they're fighting with their insurance because they didn't have coverage specifically for the panels. The mangled panels are visible from the ground, and they're gonna be up there until after the inevitable court case is settled

>>107129772
When the uranium fuel is spent, it's depleted, yes?

>>107129694
Nobody wants to live near a solar farm or wind farm either

No, apparently solar is good and wind is a scam among renewables

>>107129865
And that's why there're no cities putting as many solar panels on the roofs as possible.

>>107127439
in maine you just buy 50 acres and burn trees for power you dumbass

>>107129865
I wouldn't mind living near a solar farm. Definitely not a wind farm though.

>>107128009
Aparently 26 Euros for 600W on AliExpress. I would have no idea how to wire it, but it might be something to look into.

>>107128733
>be retarded faggots
>can only make energy purchasing decisions by representative democracy
>said process is heavily lobbied by financial interests on both sides
>final decisions are nothing but what's possible to get passed in some state assembly
>the law of unintended outcomes produces unintended outcomes
>"I guess [thing] is just bad isn't it?"

So if you buy solar panels you wire them to the main power grid? Are there any easier alternatives?

>>107129794
You take natural U, which consists of U-235 (what you want for fission) and U-238 (DU part), separate them into enriched (more 235 than naturally found) and DU (mostly U-238)
Spent fuel is the U-235 that has already reacted and turned into myriads of radioactive cocktail of nasty stuff. DU has never gone into fission at all, it's just the inert part of natural uranium, safe enough to be handled with no special protection.

>>107129694
I live within 15 miles of two nuclear plants and nobody cares.

>>107127590
I don't think about you at all

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>>107127439
>portland: 2513 hours of sun
>2nd least
stop lying faggot

>>107130234
Must be great having solar panels that do absolutely nothing but look ugly for 3/4 of a year.

>>107128562
only retard countries with third world building codes does this happen

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>>107130247
>Must be great having solar panels that do absolutely nothing but look ugly for 3/4 of a year.
here's adelaide and melbourne in australia. 2774 hours. 261 more hours of sunlight than portland. you need to stop lying, tyrone. you are the blackest and most retarded gorilla nigger i have ever fucking seen. in your pea sized bird brain you probably think:
>grug see no sun. is obscured by cloud
>panel must now be generating 0kw
>grug sad. must be conspiracy between obama nigger and trannies or something
>grug need hit of meth

>>107128705
>My homeowners insurance wants the shingles replaced every 15 years or else they won't cover leaks and water damage.
The mind boggles at the financial prisons Americans invent for themselves. Every 15 years you pay a team of foreigners thousands of dollars (70% of which is sent abroad) to replace a roof which isn't leaking. Jesus fucking Christ.
>What do you use?
Everywhere else on the planet uses slate, or clay, or metal. My roof is slate with lead flashing, it's 90 years old and in perfect condition.

IIWY I'd look into 138T standing seam. Or "symmetrical standing seam". Standing seam is the best metal roofing construction, and symmetrical is far more repairable than keyed. They're also better at accepting a solar install than most other types of roofing. If anyone tries to sell you a metal roof with exposed fasteners, tell them to fuck off.

Also, replacing a roof is the perfect time to add exterior insulation, so look into that.
>inb4 I have interior insulation
Exterior insulation preserves the wooden components of a roof, it's usually worth doing even if the energy savings payoff is absurdly long, because your rafters and decking won't rot.

>>107127418
Ever since I got solar few years ago my ac is on 24/7, I pay nothing, love being scammed like that. Solar is paid already long ago as well.

>>107127928
doesn't brazil get too much rain for this to work? I mean you guys have rainforests. it must rain every fucking day

>>107130408
>to replace a roof which isn't leaking.
Which isn't leaking *yet*. And you don't have to replace it, the insurance simply won't pay you if it does leak. If you can't see how eminently reasonable that is, I don't know what else to tell you.

>>107129544
>literally all the material needed is in greenland and canada
>canada was literally willing to do all the hard work and just hand over the mined and processed rare earth nearly for free
>elect retard who won't shut up about making canada a 51st state and invading greenland
>tariffs china
>china, canada and greenland all tell burgoids to gtfo
>"waaah global homo"

>>107130479
>Solar is paid already long ago as well.
Lying doesn't get you anywhere on here.
I got quoted $17k to install solar. That would take over 20 years at my current electricity pricing, once you factor in inflation and America's plans to build more power plants, it won't ever pay itself off.
Solar never makes sense and never will.

>>107130563
>$17k to install solar
wtf? you are getting scammed.
dumb retard

>energy prices so high people have to buy solar
>solar capacity at record high
>excess solar goes onto the grid for free
>energy prices still go up
this country is a joke

>>107130568
Glad you agree with me. Solar is a fucking scam.

>>107127418
well, here all the subsidies have dried up and providing back to the grid no longer lowers your power bill, so Id say yes

>>107130590
>dumb retard can't read
if solar is a scam, why was my electricity bill for this summer less than €100?
dumb retard

>>107130596
>europoor
Solar probably has some extremely generous subsidies and paid off by the chinese government. No wonder why your tax rates are so fucking high.

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>>107130608
>get btfo
>immediately start coping

>>107130608
Holy shit, does that means I can steal ¥UANS from poor xianxianlings oppressed by communistic taxes by simply buying solar panels?

>>107130596
seems kinda high for summer, your AC sucking more than the panels can provide?

>>107127439
>2nd least amount of sunlight in the first world
Solar panels can recoup some of that because the globally lower temp allow their electronics to work more efficiently.
It's not that dramatic.

>you got power plants built
>you got the power lines from said plants built to your house
>now lets invest into solar which adds on top of that so we can run power plants less hard
>batteries that could store relevant amounts of electricity cost tens of thousands of euros so any solar power not used can only be transported down the line to the grid which is really tricky to use effectively and is possibly pointless

I gotta wonder how much better our lives would be if taxpayer donations to green energy iniatives never happened and that money was used to, idk, pay off debts

>>107127590
>europe
>first world
?
you guys dont even have AC and die in 80 degree weather

>>107127715
Ah, glavset's here.

>>107130537
>be normal 1st world nation
>mandate effective surveys and liabilities in property transactions
>roof leaks
>find broken/loose shingle (which is made of a material which sunlight doesn't degrade, this is important since sunlight shines on roof shingles sometimes)
>replace it
>insurance accepts the cost because the incentives are arranged such that it advantages no-one to spend more than necessary
or
>be American
>make homes out of matchsticks and foam, covered with tar, inspected by monkeys
>an inspector can legally perform a roof survey on a brand new home from the ground
>insurance companies are forced to adopt draconian policies which involve zero surveying because the materials and quality of work is so incredibly poor
>these policies perpetuate an incentive to spend as little as possible because building to a higher standard saves no money at all
>every legitimate claim ends up in a fucking courtroom because every party has a financial incentive to screw the others over
All of my mandatory items to keep full coverage here in the UK are inspections, not replacements. The notion of replacing a roof every 15 years is less "eminently reasonable" and more "completely fucking alien" here.

>>107131096
yeah but you have no AC, cope & seethe & dilate

>>107128493
never, if you can make one you dont need it

>>107129398
lel

>>107131128
As someone who has AC, let me say it for him then.
>be normal 1st world nation
>mandate effective surveys and liabilities in property transactions
>roof leaks
>find broken/loose shingle (which is made of a material which sunlight doesn't degrade, this is important since sunlight shines on roof shingles sometimes)
>replace it
>insurance accepts the cost because the incentives are arranged such that it advantages no-one to spend more than necessary
or
>be American
>make homes out of matchsticks and foam, covered with tar, inspected by monkeys
>an inspector can legally perform a roof survey on a brand new home from the ground
>insurance companies are forced to adopt draconian policies which involve zero surveying because the materials and quality of work is so incredibly poor
>these policies perpetuate an incentive to spend as little as possible because building to a higher standard saves no money at all
>every legitimate claim ends up in a fucking courtroom because every party has a financial incentive to screw the others over

>>107128459
>>replace hundreds of acres of good farmland with solar panels
Where does this happen?

>>107130141
But the housing prices are lower. You build a nuclear plant and you strip billions off the nearby housing value. That's the real reason nuclear isn't anywhere.

>>107128459
>hail comes through
The panels themselves are extremely cheap. Around 100-200 dollarydoos a panel depending.
What's expensive is labor, batteries, and inverter in that order. Labor is tens of thousand because it's a scam. Batteries and inverter are in the thousands. A complete solar system done diy is around 8 grand.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/solar-manufacturing-map
Here's a map for recycling. I'm sure in 30 years when your panels expire there will be more recycling centers.

>>107127951
>muh subsidies
All energy generation is subsidized.
There's no nuclear power plant in existence that didn't receive government subsidies or things like tax incentives or monopoly rights.
And we've fought very expensive wars to ensure access to fossils.

Compared to that, the government only spent peanuts on solar.

>>107129978
Its braindead simple, single wire to the inverter, from there into a wall socket

Thats it

>>107128009
Most of the cost in the first world are installation costs.
Hiring professionals that uphold high safety standards, that use expensive quality parts and unnecessarily fancy shit like all those internet connected microinverters drive up the cost.

>>107131301
Solar is more expensive than fossils and in some cases nuclear because of land use, labor for maintenance and how often the panels fail.
Solar is a scam, plain and simple.

>>107127418
in romania you pay electro niggers to take your electricity, and (maybe) get something back something after 2 years. if everyone got solar the prices would just skyrocket for normalfags.
highest prices in europe for the lowest income class

Why the fuck is /g/ so fucking pro-solar all of a sudden?
Solar is so fucking expensive and the production of the panels are extremely damaging to the environment, not to mention the shitty useful lifespan of 10 years at most that you can't recycle.
Chinese shills are going all out it seems...

>>107131363
>land use
Oh yeah the valuable land in the middle of desert or on top of roof tops.
>maintenance
Solar is the most low maintenance form of power generation, no moving parts, panels that are good for 20 years. You might occasionally have to wash it.
There is no comparison to the amount of maintenance a nuclear power plant or fossil plant requires.
>how often the panels fail
Which is very rarely.

>>107131382
>Why the fuck is /g/ so fucking pro-not-paying-electrical-jews all of a sudden?
dumb retard, it's literally free electricity.

>>107131383
Except they aren't building solar farms in the desert, they usually build it on former farmland which were used to grow food.
Rooftop solar is also the most retarded way of deploying solar, it kills birds, looks ugly and lowers property prices.

10 years is pitiful lifespan for power generation, 20 years is an outright lie.

Panels fail all the fucking time.

>>107131390
The panels are not free. The environmental damage is not free, the disposal of old panels are not free. The land use is not free.

>>107131400
>Except they aren't building solar farms in the desert, they usually build it on former farmland which were used to grow food.
Show me where that happens.

>>107131382
Because there are enough autists here who are immune to fossil industry propaganda

>>107131382
Check solar power price over time. It went down over time and now it’s the cheapest power source by far even without subsidies. Oiljews just want you to think that modern solar is the same it was 20 years ago.

>>107128562
>>Are you unfamiliar with roofs needing to be replaced every 20 years
American houses sound like such a nightmare, the amount of maintenance to keep the wood, cardboard and carpet materials all glued together it's insane how the houses are worth so much

>>107131411
So we should listen to this "greenwashing energy" and chinese propaganda instead?

>>107131408
Everywhere, there's no deserts in most of Europe
The ones built in the most populous states in Ausfailia aren't in built on desert land
America isn't falling for this scam tech so they aren't deploying them much at all. Only in commiefornia.

>>107131416
>now it’s the cheapest power source by far even without subsidies
Yet the countries that use more renewables (Germany, Ausfailia,etc) all have astronomically high energy prices.

>>107131418
It’s not the houses, it’s the land. Also everything is inflated in us. Somebody taking a fat shit and sculpting it into a single brick will cost you 15 dollars.

>>107131425
>Everywhere
Name an actual example where valuable farm land is used for solar.

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>>107131428
Too many to count, and you can see it for yourself on google maps.
Go to any country, type in solar farm and boom, built in the middle of rural farmland. Found this instantly.

>>107131425
>Yet the countries that use more renewables (Germany, Ausfailia,etc) all have astronomically high energy prices.
Idk if you meant Australia or Austria, but simply looking up electricity prices shows that Europe and Mongolia are the only places with super high energy prices, and EU gets it mostly because here we have a dumb system where the energy prices get brought up by the most expensive energy source, which is burning natural gas here thanks to the Ukraine war.

>>107131438
What makes you think this is valuable farm land?
What makes you think this isn't a roofed installation that underneath the panels serves another purpose, etc..

Can you give me just one single actually confirmed case, that someone with a brain actually looked into, where valuable farm land is used for solar panels instead?

>>107131445
>here's pictorial evidence
>no! I need a video of Bernie Sanders saying it's farmland under oath

>>107131445
>how do you know the blacks don't have bread inside those speakers

>>107131447
a satellite photo of some random panels isn't evidence for shit, retard
Is this really all you have? You're so confident about it but you can't even give one single news story where someone actually looked into it?

Are they paying you to be that retarded?

>>107131462
Are they paying you this hard to shill solar when it's clearly an unviable and shitty solution?

>>107131474
Yeah, it's clearly unviable and shitty if you completely ignore reality and just make shit up.

>>107127590
Tropical countries in LatAm use hydroelectric. Solar is completely useless for them.

>>107128087
Bermuda and Caymans is understandable (despite not being actual countries). Liechtenstein wipe their ass with banknotes, so they don't care. But Italy and Ireland, what the fuck

>>107131294
Made up nonsense by guys who convinced the world that number on screen equals to real life value. Housing prices are the real scam

>>107131438
not defending this bullshit trend but I'm pretty OK with it if the land is being used to graze livestock and provide shelter at the same time as being low maintenance thanks to greenery being eaten by sheep / goats / geese.

>>107131445
You have been proven wrong, stop moving goalposts and concede.
>What makes you think this is valuable farm land
Oh, now it has to be "valuable" by your arbitrary standards, huh.
>What makes you think this isn't a roofed installation that underneath the panels serves another purpose
Because a) you can see that it's not a roof and b) that's not practical. The best you can do is have sheep or goats graze under, but you need to harden the installation to withstand them then.

>>107131462
>a satellite photo of some random panels isn't evidence for shit
It is.
>can't even give one single news story
Search it yourself, look at the pictures, and you will see it's farmland.
Example, most are farmland:
https://svensksolenergi.se/om-solenergi/anlaggningar/solcellsparker/

And I'll do you one better and tell you why it's usually farmland, it's because it's flat and empty. There's very few other flat and empty large spaces.

>>107131517
I hope they're not selling those livestock as meat or dairy, since solar panels leech nasty fucking chemicals onto the grass they end up eating.

>>107127418
If Elon Musk made Solar panels, pa/g/eets would cream their fucking pants.

>>107131523
>Oh, now it has to be "valuable" by your arbitrary standards, huh.
If it's worthless as farmland, then what's your problem with it being used for something else?

No one puts solar panels on land that's more valuable as farmland.
And don't come at me with >muh subsidies - farming is heavily subsidized in the EU.

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If I owned one of these in England, I'd consider installing them just to shield the roof from the sun. During the two weeks of summer, these roofs have a tendency to cook the inhabitants alive.

Having own inverter/battery type setup sounds fun, regardless.
https://youtu.be/ka0MfipmdBw&t=246

>>107127951
>Subsidized bro.
Not really needed unless you live in the so called "west" where there's whole parasitic/service industry attached to something as simple as solar panels.

>>107128103
>>107128170
The real problem is that you americunts are jews. You are being charged to connect some cables and to tie the panels to your roof. The biggest risk in that is dying from electrocution
Other than that, you are paying way too much. It has nothing to do with subsidies and everything to do with you Americans being entitled, retarded and lazy.

> $10k for an enphase IQ 5.
Lol. That shit shouldn't cost more than $1500, and the panels cost $150 max., so less than $5k in total for materials, excluding mounting system (that should cost not more than the panels)

>>107128733
>Making solar panels and wind farms is a lot more polluting than just continuing to use coal and natural gas for electricity.
Being contrarian is mainstream now in the MAGA era.

>>107128562
By installing solar panels, your roof should actually last longer, RETARD. Unless the installer breaks it, of course. But then that's a (You) problem, not a problem of solar itself

>>107131525
>leech nasty fucking chemicals
which chemicals?

>>107131587
Why are UK buildings so shit? They freeze more people during winter per capita then Canada and Norway, and they cook people alive during summer. How do you manage to make such shitty houses?

>>107127418
>Solar Tech A Scam
Pulls money out of thin air just by sitting in the open, it's a fucking miracle.

solar wouldn't be a scam if literally anyone invested time and money into it to develop it further than the state it's been for the last decade

>>107131720
But they did invest time and money into it and it went from least efficient to most efficient power source when it comes to cost.

>>107131720
What state? Panels and batteries have been falling on price so much that it's a no brainer for anyone who understands anything about energy.

>>107131584
>If it's worthless as farmland, then what's your problem with it being used for something else
Not valuable (by your arbitrary standard) =/= worthless. But even if it is monetarily worthless land (it's not) I might prefer to have nice nature to look at and for wildlife to live in.

>No one puts solar panels on land that's more valuable as farmland.
Obviously. Solar costs (and returns) a lot more per square meter than farming.
>And don't come at me with >muh subsidies
Solar is much, much more subsidized than farming. It's also privately subsidized by easily getting massive investments.
Im in EU and my solar installation yields €0.005/kwh. However, there is a tax writeoff of €0.05/kwh. That's 10x.
For installation it's 40% of the cost of material and labor.

>>107131758
>my solar installation yields €0.005/kwh
what does this even mean? do you mean your feed in rates arent very good?

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>>107127418
If electric cars become the majority of cars, and if workplace charging becomes normalized, the solar peak vs consumption peak will align perfectly.
Neither will happen though. It is easier to just draw HVDC lines over several timezones and just pass the extra solar power back and forth between states or countries.
I also am on full hopium that heat storage will become good enough to massively scale, but it won't work for PV solar panels which fit on buildings.
>>107128763
Look up breeder reactors. You can recycle "spent" rods over and over until you are left with little amounts of material (which is weapons grade so this should only be allowed in first world countries)
Even if you don't use breeder reactors, you can just stuff the spent fuel underground in tectonically stable rocks. Nature already has radioactive uranium deposits, nothing will happen if we shove some of it back in a controlled manner.
>>107131294
>>107129694
The entire country of France and the province of Ontario don't seem to mind the amounts of nuclear plants around them. I prefer it to any other type of a power plant, save maybe to hydro if I'm not in its floodpath.
>>107129282
>will have to be replaced in 8
You are making shit up because of being buck broken by politics. You can disagree with 99% of liberal policies without lying to yourself about solar power. Just because it is being pushed by your political rivals doesn't mean it is bad.
Solar panels last decades. Even when they start losing efficiency, say down to 50% in a nightmare scenario, it is still literal free power long after ROI. Newer panels from the last decade also lose efficiency really slowly unlike older ones. They are also cheaper even eith zero subsidies.

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>>107131758
I don't like EU approach with individual installations on private houses. It's just wasteful and inefficient compared to giga sized solar farms chinks are making.

>>107131758
>I might prefer to have nice nature to look at and for wildlife to live in.
Nta but why do you think wild life cannot live alongside solar panels?
Also, have you ever heard of agrivoltaics?

>my solar installation yields €0.005/kwh
Are you injecting to the grid? If you are and are making that much, then YOU are the retard lmao. Go get a battery, dumbo.

These anti-solar shills have to be LLMs. I cannot believe someone who has any interest in tech opposes solar... With these retarded arguments.

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>>107131788
>cannot live alongside solar panels
Nothing can beat cohabitation of nature and coal plant kek.

>>107131758
>For installation it's 40% of the cost of material and labor.
Yet installers charge whatever the fuck they want. How does that make solar tech a scam? The real scammers are the installers. You can design, buy and maybe install a system by yourself, and it would be much cheaper. You would need to pay someone $1000 to connect some cables, do the papers and install the meters and whatever else.

>>107131827
>$1000 to connect some cables, do the papers and install the meters and whatever else.
lol my man if it was only that cheap. Installation and paperwork costs more than the system itself at least here in EU jewhole.

>>107131848
Again, you can do most of the installation yourself. Just hire an electrician electrician for the final cable connections (it's basically 4 cables if you have 1 string and want to connect the inverter to the grid) and paperwork (no need if you dgaf about injecting to the grid).
DYOR and stop overpaying.

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>>107129398
They last many more years beyond the advertised 25 years, they just lose "efficiency". It still gives free power so no reason not to keep them until they start breaking down maybe 40 to 50 years into it. You can just keep replacing them slowly one by one over the decades if you care so much about maximum output.
>>107130247
>it is pitch black darkness outside of 3 months in the year
Not true even in the arctic lmao. Shove clean coal up your ass, fucking deranged schizo.
>>107131382
>Solar is so fucking expensive
No it isn't
>extremely damaging to the environment
No it isn't, and you don't really care about the environment anyway so cut the posturing.
>shitty useful lifespan of 10 years
Keep making shit up. We WILL install solar panels and WE WILL use your tax dollars to subsidize it because it is based.
>Chinese shills
And what are you, a Saudi shill?
>muh americun oil self reliance
Will be bankrupt the moment Saudis and Russians decide to shit out oil and bring the price down. It almost happened a few years before covid.
>muh coal
There are no infinite amounts of it and it is extremely toxic

>>107129978
>I would have no idea how to wire it, but it might be something to look into
you can buy all the parts, wire it all up from a guide online, and then pay an electrician to come and sign off on it. this means you will stay insured and the install is legal and safe.

Solar panels already come with their own wires and connectors, you fucking retards. You only need a couple more cables to connect them to the inverter.
How the fuck do these retards find this "technology" board...

>>107127418
is solar energy good for your pc ?

>>107131931
just election tourists who care more about identity politics than technology

>>107131931
IDK man i am used to having to buy either individual parts or a full kit with extra hardware for a car so the assumption would be that i would have to buy the inverter at the minimum but others might have to buy everything else to include the support brackets. The real problem i have with solar is that i have to deal with hail damage in my state, snow, and insurance due to the fire hazard of having it. Not worth it imo.

>>107131781
>breeder reactor
>"spent" fuel rod
>weapons grade
you have no idea what youre talking about
the "spent fuel" of a breeder reactor is just a block of lead, though obviously this spent fuel spent a few billion years inside the reactor

>>107131931
>You only need a couple more cables to connect them to the inverter
>the inverter
well well something not included with the panels before you finished your own stupid sentence

fuck off

>>107127418
Switched to a small solar setup with a battery, completely off-grid 3 years ago and It has paid off itself in a year.
I added another battery so that my first battery doesn't get as stressed but I still have 8-12 years on it.

I gave the anti-competition law electricity companies take advantage of in the UK and decided not to invest. That and the weather here is dogshit for 85% of the year anyway.

>>107129865
Have coworker that choose to. Great decision as the farm hooked into their electrical system and gives them free electricity.

Farms also don't melt down into seas.

>>107131525
>>107131703
bump, would love an answer

>>107131948
Do this: find a "ready made" solar kit, then research and buy the individual parts separately. If it doesn't come with a mounting system, you'll have to buy that also.
Then you can also buy ready made cables with MC4 connectors. Ideally buy cables made of copper (depending on how much current they will transmit; you want to optimize for voltage, not current).

>>107131963
Oh, yeah, I forgot. The inverter costs $600-$3000.
You ask someone to connect the cables from the panels, battery (if any) and mains to it. That's all you need to do.

>>107131788
>Are you injecting to the grid?
That’s kind of how you calculate the yeald. If you are generating energy you measure it in money you would have spend on buying that energy. Also >>107131758 arguments don’t seem relevant. Sure it might be subsidised to install them through tax writeoffs, but if you look at the numbers the amount of energy per dollar of investment is still highest for newest solar panels. EU could give you more money then the cost of solar panel per solar panel but it would still not disprove the fact that Solar these days mainly through longevity of panels manages to be one of the cheapest sources of energy if you manage to store it.

>>107131973
I have small house on the coast and paid guy to cover the roof in solar panels and got one of those small all in one inverter/battery units.
Shit is great, runs all the electronics, lights, fridge, air fryer tho I have to use that one during the day.
Installed panels are currently super overkill but I'll probably upgrade later on so I can run AC.

>>107130563
>That would take over 20 years at my current electricity pricing, once you factor in inflation and America's plans to build more power plants,

>America
>Nuclear plans

Good fucking luck with that between NIMBY's, bi polar presidential administrations, and general shit show that is USA plants. Also dumb you didn't take advantage of the Biden/local refunds.

>>107131400
>solar kills birds
That's a bonus.

>>107128562
Ameriburger moment

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>>107131781
The entire country of France and Ontario also love universal healthcare and restricted guns. You have to adjust to what the cultures want or cox people into it. And nuclear here is considered NIMBY to non nuke bros.

>>107130141
Fantastic. Now scale that up and convince people who currently don't live near one to have one put in their neighborhood.

Seen homes near worse shit like concrete construction yards and water towers that literally produces ground dust 24/7 that coats their homes and enters their lungs. Know what happens? Kills the home values nearby while the tards one home over think they still have value and are immune.

I use this example because people aren't rationale and will go full NIMBY bringing up every nuclear disaster google can tell them and have fossil fags at every town meeting saying why nuke bad while living near worse. Presidents like Trump also aren't unique as both parties are scared to push it.

Not enough people are changing their minds anytime soon which makes it retarded to leave alternatives in the cold.

>>107132116
>both parties are scared to push it
kek
what do we do when they both start pushing it? nothing? they know that
anything slightly important that neither party pushes isnt pushed because (((they))) dont want it pushed

>>107132016
Buy chinese inverters, they're ahead of the curve in that tech. Huawei has the best offering and an inbuilt battery is a redundancy since you can't add more.
My setup is a ramshack, I live in a forest and don't care. My brother lives in a proper town and I did a 15kw system with 20 kwh backup on his roof properly, he runs his heater, AC, and whatever the fuck he wants on it. He'll get his money's worth in 10 months.
Also never ever in your life trust the chinese with wires, they fuck you in the ass for quality.

>>107131931
This board has never held a tool bigger than their own dick which is tiny as fuck. If you want real technology then go to >>>/diy/, they're smarter than this shill bot infested board.

>>107132148
Correct. They aren't going to push it because fossil fags will pay them to not care, coal & dumb american fuckers hate it because they want their traditional shit back, and progressives are nature/natural huggers who rather clutter the earth in wind farms .

A push won't come until the fossil masters say time to switch and pump out propagnda on why their green energy brand is USA #1.

its not a scam but its expensive as hell. it costs 10-20k to set up a good system.

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>>107131587
solar panel installation is just fucked in the UK. It's also jewed to fucking shit with many companies saying they'll install it for you "for free" and service it with a subscription. If that's not horrible enough if you ever to sell your house that company still owns the panels and you can't do shit as they hike prices making anyone looking to buy that house fuck right off buying any of them with these solar lease agreements. You can opt to buy all the equipment and install everything yourself and set it up, then the payoff for doing that is about 10 years minimum for how much power you'd generate/money you'd save.

>>107132205
>opinion piece written by a women about a man that cant easily sell his dead mothers house (he doesnt want to follow through with the contract his mother signed)
does this need a comment? surely everyone reading your post knows you were paid for it in shekles

>>107132205
I assume they asked to many favors from to many contractors and now have to scam people to pay for the installations, they need a collective demand or they will make this bussiness practice and so long sensible solar systems back to buying from the polluting corrupt provider

I have installed solar power myself and used installed panels by people with a hammer and patience doesn't need a proffesional just a decent handyman and good instructions

But a company of sizeable size can and will kill that simple fact of life

>>107132215
Well you commented along with 618 others so I suppose it did.

>>107127418
the sun isn't strong when people need electricity the most, so power companies must have standby capacity ready to ramp up as needed.

If people want solar power, they should have their own systems and store the energy themselves and unplug from the grid if they want to reduce their electricity bill.

>>107132182
IMITATION CRAB MEAT
PALLET FURNITURE
UNDERGROUND SHIPPING CONTAINER
HARBOR FREIGHT TOOOLS

>>107128676
weird larp

>>107132353
You will never be Al Gore.

>>107132254
>the sun isn't strong when people need electricity the most
you mean during the summer when people have their AC at full? whole fucking countries have energy rationing during summer...

>>107132463
people are at work in the middle of the day so they don't need it at home.

>>107132502
>your job uses no electricity
schlomo is working overtime, and for what?

>>107132502
I'm sure literally everyone, including kids, teenagers and old people, works during vacations and weekends

like the other anon said, how much are you getting paid to make up retarded shit?

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>>107131711
Most of these houses were not built for modern heatwaves. It basically doesn't snow in the UK anymore. Many of them still have single glazing windows, which I guess were good enough back when you could burn logs.

The biggest problem is that the Brits are culturally incapable of recognising their own designs as being flawed, thus not seeing, and not even looking for, a way to improve. Cold countries generally don't place their bathrooms by exterior walls and/or have tiles instead of paint. Even better, why not put a literal hole in the wall for "ventilation". No Brit knows what awnings are for, or that it's a bad idea to keep windows open during heatwaves. Progress is slowly happening, but the default instinct is to double down, never question the status quo, and never believe what a foreigner tells you.

>>107132622
what is there to say you are retarded. Peak use is in the afternoon which is when solar is less effective.

>>107132729
being able to afford housing is the problem in the UK, not a lack of awnings

>>107132622
I don't have my AC turned on until after i arrive home.

>>107132869
no, i think you'll find that dying of starvation in South Sudan is the real problem, not le "cost of living croisis" in the UK

>>107132841
>afternoon
>when solar is less effective
tell me how I know you know nothing about physics or sollar installations lol

>>107132927
>problem
sounds more like a solution LOL

>>107132729
It’s not just heatwaves and global warming. Something like third of houses in London aren’t properly insulated and tons of people die of cold in them. They are just shit overall.

>>107128763
What happens to the plethora of released isotopes from coal fired plants?

>>107133027
yeah. even with proper insulation materials they'll have shit like literal gaps in the walls that will leak heat. double glazing windows will get installed, but shitty warped and cracked wooden doors will be ignored. nobody here cares about anything beyond getting paid for doing the bare minimum. truly a nation of lazy incompetent morons.

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>>107127951
People from the favelas in Brazil have illegal connections to the grid, that’s why the government over there is helping them get solar panels. The government is thinking of its own self-interest.

>>107127418
Overbuilding solar a bit is cheaper than burning natural gas for Australia.

>>107133106
>Libertarian paradise.

>>107127677
>Brazilians
Brazilians are investing heavily into solar energy
the problem is that the government is shit and wants to tax is more and more
source: Im a Brazilian monkey
>>107127951
>Subsidized
LMAO
thinking we get anything trully subsidized here in Brazil

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>>107128733
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Rooftop solar is definitely the way to go for homeowners.
>>107128763
You recycle it then dispose of it into the Sun. You use a space elevator to get it there safely as possible.

https://youtu.be/c2jffTm__CI

>>107127418
The expert panel was able to provide a valuable insight into the challenges facing the industry. If only their housing wasn't so unaffordable. It is here in Maine. That's for sure. If you're pushing electricity into the grid you're doing solar wrong, though.

>>107127418
desert+solar
makes sense

>>107133342
>If you're pushing electricity into the grid you're doing solar wrong, though.
australians are literally charging their cars during the day to sell it to the grid at night...

>>107133454
>to sell it to the grid at night...
the power companies are forced to buy this electricity by law. They don't want to buy it.

>>107133623
>people are now allowed to take advantage of the monopolized energy jew while also building their own independent energy infra
OK, and? are you saying that should we feel bad for them or something?

>>107133721
the customer ends up paying for it with higher electricity bills.

>>107128733
>Making solar panels and wind farms is a lot more polluting than just continuing to use coal and natural gas for electricity.
Probably false, but even if true, having the ability to be independent from the grid, government and retards like you is priceless. No technology has been as liberating as solar panels.
Source: I have taken off-grid my mom's house, my grandfather's house, my own and now my uncle is in the process of doing it himself. I installed and configured everything by myself and it's easy as shit.

Seeing neighbors eyeing my house during a flood that took down electricity, internet and cell phones, whilst I still had power and internet (Starlink) only reinforced my convictions. Their luck was that it only lasted 3 days.

>>107132729
>heatwaves (70f)
kek

>>107133753
No idea aboit Australia, but at least in my country, energy prices don't factor injection by customers. In fact, they only depend on the value of the US dollar, inflation and fuel prices. And they are set by the authority. So injection has 0 relevance in that.
It only lowers profits for utilities and generates incentives for people to have their own (independent) solar PV systems

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>>107133312

>>107134363
In california they have a net energy metering program which means non solar customers pay billions to subsidize the lower bills of those with solar panels.
The utility is forced to buy the solar energy from homeowners at 8 times the value it would cost to simply buy the solar energy from a utility.
>solar customers receive $3.4 billion in subsidies from non-solar customers statewide and $1 billion in SCE’s service area alone, paying around $200 more in their electric bills every year to fund rooftop solar systems. By 2030, that amount will grow to $300 per year.

>>107133156
Brazil is extremely socialist, with low level regulations loosely enforced only due to low state capacity. They literally can't do it.
The moment you become big or an enemy, suddenly all regulations become real and you have to pay enormous bribes just to exist.

>>107134736
Yes. Libertarian paradise.

When it is everybody for themselves, it becomes a free for all of just getting the job done and giving no fucks about anyone. That pic is replicated in any shit hole country. The rules that you describe still occur in this scenario only it is the gang with the biggest club instead of the state.


You are getting fucked in both scenarios, but difference is one has to pretend to care about you to a certain extent.

>>107133419
unless you produce hydrogen or someshit, transportation costs will be untenable

>>107135249
Ghettos/marginalism isn't libertarian retard, you're the usual leftypol/altright (same kind of no-thinking retard) that conflates grey areas with no laws with laissez-faire states.
dumbfuker

>>107128524
>What is it about solar technology in particular that people go to such great lengths, performing feats of mental gymnastics, in order to justify being against it?
Same thing as with EVs, China won hard in these industries, and Americans can't deal with that.