So much talk about the Steam Machine but the most interesting Part to me was thisAre you buying the Deckard?I am not thrilled they went with LCD over OLEDBut the 6GHZ USB dongle seems nicePlaying PCVR on my Quest 3 every now and again there is a stutter caused by the connection to the Router, Deckard should have flawless wireless PCVR
vr is forever DOA until they solve locomotion and they're no where near doing so
>>107218001The most exciting thing about the Steam Frame launch is its recovery image. It's a Linux OS for your face with X86 -> ARM translation, Galaxy XR has an unlocked bootloader which means by the end of 2026 we'll have a 4k microOLED headset with eye tracking running on Linux and able to run most x86 software. Valve saved XR, not with the Frame but with their software >>107218327I'm friends with one of the guys working at Freeaim VR and I would say they're the closest I've seen to a reasonable solution to being able to naturally move beyond your play space. In theory at least, better than any of those dumbass slippy treadmills. They said one of the biggest issues with getting them supported on major hardware is that companies like Meta are so protective about official integrations with third party accessories. Valve are very open with their software so they can properly support all SteamVR titles through Steam Input. If there's going to be a "be all and end all" locomotion solution, SteamVR is where it'll be supported ultimately.
The face gasket better be machine washable
>>107218327wrong, it's great for porn
my skins arent worth anything anymore this better be cheap cause i wont be able to afford it
Why are they putting a camera on it and marketing it alongside the cube when it won't have camera support on Linux?
>>107218752v4l2? linux has no camera support ar you high?
>>107218760The Index has a camera but you can't use it for VR. Why would that change with this new headset?
>>107218001i'm disappointed the cube wasn't ARM aswell
>>107218001nope. no OLED no dice. Ive got a PSVR2 and going back to LCD will look like shit to me now
I can't remember the last time I was this excited about a new thing.This is the closest to what I've wanted since the DK1: a headset comfortable enough to use for long durations that supports a full desktop environment.
>>107218531a niche use that negates 99% of the point of vr ain't it. pocket pussy and a facemask ain't even close to the real thing
>>107218439yeah right someday we'll have giant rooms for wandering around in vr. I just don't buy it there's zero practical solutions and won't b anytime soon
>>107218886>zero practical solutions and won't b anytime soonthe solution is "move out of your moms basement and buy your own house".
>>107218001Based:ARM Linux PC that translates x86 windows games, sideload android APKsEyetracking with foveated encoding and a wifi 6e USB dongle in box, dual antennas to separate internet and VR trafficLightweight, 185g eyepiece + additional facial interface/audio weight. Quest is ~500grams with no strapTMR Joysticks, knuckle straps and capacative finger tracking survivedmicrosd expandable storageIR lights built into the headset for dark roomscopium front expansion port so you can imagine the headset acquiring any feature its missingCringe:2160p LCD, not even mini led backlightValve refused comment on converting flat games to stereo 3DNo controllerless hand tracking when you can just get a quest 3Quest 2 tier black & white IR passthroughNo audio jack, front speaker sound stage suspect to suck against index's over ear speakersUSB 2.0Knuckle straps and headstrap are add-onsOne Valve guy confirmed there's no 1st party VR gameValve isn't even sure frame can run ALYX standaloneNo tightnening wheel adjustment for headstrap, zuck tier buckle loopscopium front expansion port so you can imagine the headset acquiring any feature its missing
>>107218927I got money in the bank because I'm not a sucker like you enjoy your sprawling no games space you bought tho
>>107218327quit being a bitch and you won't be filtered
>>107218439can you just take the frame image and put it on the galaxy XR that uses a different snapdragon then expect it to work? Isn't everything you needed for tracking wiped? Can people fix that?
>>107218974Filtered by what? You're a retard. The world ain't marching to the beat of your drum my guy
>>107218001The Frame hits almost every single upgrade I want from my og vive>ski goggle size>wireless>eye tracking>4k per eye>120hz>standalone AND pc paired>finger tracking controllers with more buttonsThe only things missing are OLED screens and wider FOV which, granted, are big misses but if it's around $800 I'll be willing to upgrade. If it's the same price as the index I'm waiting.
>>107218989wishful thinkinggalaxy xr is too uncomfortable anyway
>>107218886>I just don't buy it there's zero practical solutions and won't b anytime soon
>>107218999Woah slow down bro, you're gonna get cybersick
>>107219020>just sit there with a screen on your head like a literal retardokie dokie vr "chad"
>>107218989The XR chip that it uses is a fork of the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 which is very similar to the Gen 3 used in the Steam Frame. The reason Valve went with the Gen 3 is because FEX isn't currently supported on anything past it at the moment. I don't think that it'll be as trivial as just installing the image, but bearing in mind the community effort around porting Bazzite to similar AMD hardware as the Steam Deck I'm sure there's some mega autists who will get it working. We are talking about Linux afterall
>>107219033>sitretard
>>107219035The problem will be samsung's proprietary tracking system
>>107218752https://youtu.be/b7q2CS8HDHU?t=1457Of course the cameras work you dolt, they are monochrome though which is fucking gay. They used a regular Snapdragon not an XR variant which means it doesn't have all the extra voodoo which allows the full colour passthrough to work without cucking performance
>>107219053>I'm gonna stand in place with a screen on my head like a retardwhoa...
>>107218785But why would it be? Nobody makes ARM chips that can compete with desktop chips. Except for Apple.And even if such chips were available, the translation layer would make performance and compatibility suffer hard.
>>107219073>in placeHow many times are you going to get it wrong. Just play VR before you complain about it idiot
>>107218873>pocket pussy and a facemask ain't even close to the real thingyeah and i guess that watching porn in a regular monitor is way better.VR is an upgrade for porn when compared to monitor
>>107219066mono only has a lot of advantages. it's 1/3 the bandwidth for the same resolution. the snr is significantly higher than with color, good for low light. ir sensitivity is higher so the ir illumination is more efficient.
>>107219082>locomotion is solved just by a ranch sized lot of land exclusively for vr>>107219099I'd say not having to have a monitor strapped to your head to jackoff and easily accessing all the content from a better input device is an upgrade to vr
>>107219104Oh for sure, it makes sense because it can be used competently in the dark which is important for VRChat fags but they cucked the full potential of the device as a general XR linux PC
It's literally just a quest 3 for what will probably be a 50% higher price point.
>>107219079because I said so
>>107219112>ranch sized lot of land
>>107219118the quest 3 is not usable for long periods unless you have a perfect head shape, and runs a toy os
>>107219124yeah so you're using thumbsticks for locomotion thus negating the majority of immersion
>>107218327You're going to be in this thread for hours like you always are lmao. It's so dead it's daily topic of conversation for you.
>>107219133Well if mom said so
>>107219133https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xFHKdPGnp9wLikely the best solution we have right now
>>107219132This turd won't be usable either, and this also runs a toy OS.
>>107219177This runs Linux you nonce
>>107219158This isn't going do anything unforunately. First of all you still get sim sickness from vestibular conflict. But the problem is these only simulate walking forward and maybe backwards. This is going to make your game's hiking trail better, but when you need to strafe or do some intricate step movement or take some other posture it's now worse or unusable. Even turning on it, especially turning in place seems like it wouldn't work. I wouldn't want it for any game with combat. You could make a rollerskating game though
>>107219181That's what I said?
>>107219201Linux with proton will run anything a regular desktop would
>>107219177You better watch it sister, that's a future arch user you're talking to
>>107218963The hand tracking on the Quest is a gimmick.It doesnt work well in any game, only usefull for menus or web browsingAlso where did valve say it wont have it?Using Steamlink I can get Hand controls in Steam VR games, would be kinda stupid if Steamlink can do it with the quest but not the Deckard
I absolutely would, I have always wanted to play VR games
>>107219207Yeah man, they're investing in FEX just for fun.
>>107219219computer vision handtracking is more like UI/UX convenience VR chat thing and retains immersion, but its the gatekeeper to body tracking which is a bigger deal. Valve doesn't have an army of computer vision people like meta. I remember one of them saying somebody could add cameras for it with the add-on port and figure it out for them. It doesn't have face tracking either for VRChatters.It is in steamlink but it doesn't have to be in their headsets to provide value to steamVR users. They expect quest headsets to retain most of the users anyway. Valve's bottom line is that you are using steam to buy and play VR games.
>>107219219>>107219277Oh yeah it's also good for porn so you can keep your controllers out of that
>>107219136this is the first vr thread I visited in ages its a dead topic filled with copes
I own a Quest 3sI wonder if this will be a worthwhile upgradeMy main issue with the Quest is streaming the games over the router is mehworthy upgrade?>>107219099VR is better then real life because in VR you can have 2D women instead of 3dpd filth>>107219277>buy and playplay yes buy no hehehehe
>>107219306>I'm filling in for another pajeet's shift
>>107219320>worthy upgrade?Nobody knows the price
>>107219323>the vr shills think they're superior to anythingthanks I needed a new source of comedy gold
>>107219177were you hoping for irix? maybe windows nt?
>>107219342I think a standalone headset is a complete waste of fucking time and it shouldn't have an OS at all.
>>107219341I'm superior on the basis that I don't go in threads about things I don't use and don't know anything about. If you start now you can be there in 5 years
>>107219357That's fine, but there's the problem that you don't know anything about headsets so your opinion is irrelevant
>>107219368No but you're more than willing to lie about products you're getting paid to shill. Locomotion is a known problem aka your shit don't work and you're retarded
>>107219375I think Valve have abandoned their former users to make a Quest 3 knock-off that costs more money and can do less. Lighthouses were the ONE thing Valve did right, so of course they're abandoning them.
>>107219383>locomotion is a known problem in indiaYou guys need to stop taking selfies on train tracks
>>107219402let me know when you're done "only pretending" to be retarded mr shill
>>107218001Why not just support USB4 so I don't need to use foveat streaming as a crutch?
>>107219392The index was more expensive and did less precisely because it used lighthouse. You couldn't have picked a better confirmation. If Valve's former users were all idiots there's really nothing anybody can do.
>>107219421what
>>107219427It did less because it came out 6 years ago.The problem is that BSB essentially killed any plans Valve had for a headset revision, so instead they've pivoted to copying Facebook, which is a market they can't possibly win.
>>107219453Did you notice the index clone HP Reverb G2 was $600 instead of $1000 6 years ago despite having better panels than the index? How did they do that?BSB is an even smaller company that valve could squish if they need to, but that wouldn't be very nice. BSB will be making steam OS standalone headsets now btw. Valve probably likes them addressing price tiers they aren't entering themselves.
>>107219439Currently the biggest bottleneck on HD VR streaming is the bandwidth. So the shitty Android chip on the headset has to do encoding to compress the stream but doing a shitty job at it due to being underpowered.If the bandwidth is high enough, the android chip doesn't need to do any encoding and streamed straight from GPU
>>107219564foveated streaming solves this without having an obnoxious umbilical jutting from your face
>>107219564I thought it had to be like 60ghz wigig or something to not use video compression, what did you mean with USB4 specifically? I think 60ghz was really expensive and it's blocked by occlusion which is such an issue they made the antenna huge and up high because the signals don't even go through body.You basically described the problem right but the video card does the encoding/compression and the headset's SOC does the decoding/decompression. The frame has foveated streaming where the system uses eyetracking to push most of the bitrate to where you are looking, which is like 10% of the screen. This massively reduces reduces the bitrate you need to get a good picture.
>>107219685Worth itFuck batteries
I'll probably pass on the Steam Frame launch, because of the uncertainties around lighthouse tracking.Three biggest things for me in my next headset purchase are:>FBT>wireless>full face tracking (preferably with eyebrows, was sad when I heard the Vive Vision didn't have LOS to the brows)Instead of the Frame, I think my next purchase is going to be the magnetic field trackers FluxPose are pitching. A bit of an expensive risk buying into a completely new technology at $1k and change, but if it really does work for lighthouse-free tracking then it unlocks a lot of new headset options for me, like the Frame. I mean, we know the technology works because it has been used in military application IIRC, but the military procedures seem to suggest it needs regular recalibration in use (but that might be down to the G-forces involved in planes).
>>107218886>someday we'll have giant rooms for wandering around in vr.They already exist, but they're like laser tag venues - you pay per game and they're expensive.If VR ever becomes popular I imagine you'll get clubs where everybody has their own VR gear but you meet in some large hall and play with friends or against strangers.Not really different from playing indoor soccer / basketball / etc.
>>107219192>>107218327>>107219133>>107219112I'm so confused by these responses. Locomotion is fine. If you're too sensitive or retarded to move around then I guess it's not for you but it send to be fine with most people. I'm pretty excited for frame. VR broke me and I stopped playing 2d games completely. Meta can eat my whole ass after they started breaking my mods and side loaded shit and locked their ecosystem down. I've been using my quest 2 to play on PC but it has issues. Frame is a big upgrade for me, particularly in comfort. I can fully leave Meta's bs behind and just have fun in my autistic tranny rhythm games and VR chat like I wanted. Sub $1000 it's an instant buy for me. I should get back to the VR game I was making in godot...
>>107219916>I'm so confused by these responsesit's bait, don't worry about it.
>>107219829>I'll probably pass on the Steam Frame launchI don't think buying a VR headset at launch is ever a good idea.Every headset has issues reviewers keep quiet so you won't hear about until the general public received some samples.Sensible thing is to be patient and not fall for hype.
>>107219916Its bad enough that if you have a group of friends you play multiplayer games with, probably more than one of them will get sim sickness to the degree they can't play the game. VR controllers didn't have analog sticks on them for years and only did roomscale and teleport. But plead ignorance on the single most well known user experience problem in VR if you want.
>>107220062the original vive wants have touchpads that function as sticks. the oculus cv1 controllers have sticks.
>>107220062Briefly googling, half of people don't get any sickness, 40% get over it, 10% are pussies. I've never met anyone who couldn't get over it. I've barely met anyone who had any problem at all so these statistics are probably normies who only look at their phone. I refuse to believe this is a real problem. If it is, it doesn't matter, it can't be solved, stop talking about it and let people with functioning brains have fun.
>>107220149>the original vive wants have touchpads that function as sticksSomeone coping for the vive wands was not on my bingo card>the oculus cv1 controllers have sticks.3 years after the dev headsets started. Wasn't the touch's analog stick ignored by other VR kit makers until the index used one?
>>107218327the best use case for vr are cockpit games where you sit anyway
>>107220202I saw the steam frame engineer play alyx on the frame, he was still using teleport. It's known from the alyx documentary that many valve devs can't play with smooth locomotion and the game started as teleport only. They tried portal in VR and too many got sick to continue with the concept. It's also why you'll never see CS or Team Fortress in VR.>I was wrong stop talking about itYeah there's nothing else to say.
>>107218001This seems dogshit compared to the Quest 3, other than the dongle everything else is worse and then there's the price that would be like $300 more expensive.
>>107220233They were the first controllers released and they had sticks/dpads, which directly contradicts your statement. Until WMR there were no other suppliers (smaller brands like Pimax reused the Vive controllers/Lighthouse), and WMR also used sticks. You're totally wrong, so good job baiting me into writing this.
>Make a new VR headset with no new gaymeI hate Valve
>>107218963>No controllerless hand trackingfucking seriously? did they offer an excuse for this?
>>107220415accept my concession
>>107220431There's an expansion port on the nose and the open source and hardware community can do it maybe. That's basically what they said.
if its gonna be durable
By not making it OLED they missed out on a guranteed sale from meThe two biggest complaints i have about the quest 3 is the streaming,Valve seems to have fix thisAnd the shit black levelsWish they made an OLED model
>>107219320It's probably similar to a 3S but without the gay meta software
>>107219392>abandoningYou have serious issues bro. What's going on is they're creating a huge market for VR by getting users, and they're undermining the walled-garden bs being pushed by Meta and Apple. There's nothing stopping Valve from releasing a super high-end version of this headset later.
>>107219453>which is a market they can't possibly win.That's incorrect. If you're an adult or a serious person at all and have used a Quest you know that the primary drawback is the candy-land software and lack of customizations. I don't think they made a single significant update to the software in terms of functionality in the three years I had one. I figured out how to sideload APK's but it was a bad experience mostly, very hacked-on. The dream of VR is Quest-3s level hardware with a fully open software suite. Arch linux-based? Can't ask for anything better. You need to stop thinking of VR headets as gaming consoles - by far the killer app is BIgscreen where you can go online and watch movies/etc with people in random rooms.
>>107218001It will depend on the price, ultimately. Good PCVR wireless (if it materializes) is tempting but the core problem with VR is that there's no content. I've already played a bunch of shit and there's not much more that I'd like to play. If it's true that they aren't even releasing another VR game to go along with this thing then I really don't know what I'd really use it for. A friend who doesn't have a headset is excited for this thing, maybe I could get one to play some VR shit with him while doing away with the cable on my Index or something.>>107221234The OG Rift I have is OLED and still has shit black levels because OLED smears when the pixels turn off and they wanted to avoid that in VR.
>>107221693>You need to stop thinking of VR headets as gaming consolesI agree frame should have a better panel than 2160p
>>107221737>the core problem with VR is that there's no contentI think challenging that is exactly the strategic goal of the Frame. If you can play any of your Steam games with it, there's a massive amount of content readily available. If more people adopt VR because of this, the target market for VR-specific games becomes more viable.This is also why a premium headset with OLED, full-color passthrough, higher FOV, higher resolution, and all the other goodies people want would be completely unviable. It must be a mass-market consumer product.I'm not sure this strategy will work. I don't know if playing flatscreen games in VR is actually a decent experience.
I want to use steam frame as a replacement for my monitors for normal activities (gaming, work, watching YouTube, scrolling 4chins). If I can do that, then I would be happy
>>107222364it's ok for games and video, just don't expect physical panel clarity and brightness. You don't want to work in a 2160p headset
>>107222230>If you can play any of your Steam games with it, there's a massive amount of content readily availableThis came very easy to do with steamlink VR 2.0 which is like over a year old now. But people have been playing steam games with their quests for years. The only thing new with the frame in this regard is it's standalone and portable. But the first run is 500,000 units. It's not a mass market consumer product, valve describes it as a premium headset and the price is going to suck
>>107221737Get forefront and the update hitman WOA if you haven't already. Also heard dungeons of eternity is a good co-op game, but I haven't tried it myself
>>107222549I am currently using a 2560x1600 60Hz 17" and a 2560x1440 60Hz 24" monitors. I think steam frame would be an upgrade regardless
>>107222592You can't compare numbers directly because the 2160p figure is over 90-110 degrees. I've used 2160p before and to get something easy to read you need to display a virtual 1080p monitor over your whole field of view and you might have turn your head some to see the screen corner to corner. You can make the screen a bit smaller but you might have to lean forward to read stuff easily. And before the text gets unreadable when you're pushing the limits of your resolution, it gets uncomfortable to read even if you can read it. And you're like why am I doing all this if the text has to be huge and all my desktop elements are too big and I have no space despite having this giant virtual screen.
>>107221693>I don't think they made a single significant update to the software in terms of functionality in the three years I had one.This kind of shit makes me chuckle because SteamVR has only gotten WORSE since it launched. The input remapping used to work better (still not good, but better), they gimped it and it's now a complete fucking mess.Steam itself has always been a bloated pile of shit, but at least it kind of works. SteamVR has never really worked, and will never really work. >the killer app is BIgscreen where you can go online and watch movies/etc with people in random rooms.I'm sorry you don't have friends and have to rely on shit like this. You know you can get in a voice call with your buddies and stream a movie together, and you can watch it on a nice big screen instead of at 720p in VR, right?
>>107222592>I think steam frame would be an upgrade regardlessThis is because you're retarded, Steam Frame would be a massive downgrade.Both of your panels fall into the high DPI retard range, 66 and 92 PPD respectively, with an assumed vertical view angle of 21.6 and 15.6 degrees at 2.5 feet (the average viewing distance for a monitor). Frame's VR is 110 vertical degrees for 2160 pixels, so that's 20 PPD. To put this in terms you could understand, go put your eye 6 inches away from your 24" monitor, that's the kind of visual fidelity you're going to get. 2160p stretched over a far greater portion of your visual field gives you a much lower quality screen than a smaller resolution over a tiny fraction of your visual field.
>>107219392The lighthouses were fucking dogshit though, I bought a vive and one broke in the first month and the entire headset was useless.
>>107218439>Galaxy XAAR
>>107222899I'm still on my first set. I have the Index ones in the box because they're actually complete dogshit, I wanted to use them for a setup where they couldn't see each other, and they liked to just randomly turn on all the time for no reason, so I switched back to the Vive ones and just use a sync cable.If they had more support, either software based or hardware based, they'd be fantastic. As is, they're now abandoned so Valve are never going to fix the quirks like base plane misalignment on tracking loss.
>>107219916It's lame I mean if that needs to be explained to you enjoy your thumbsticks
>>107219133>>107219158I do not want to walk around playing a fucking game.
>>107218001>I am not thrilled they went with LCD over OLEDIt's going to be like the Steam Deck. OLED version with bettter battery and more storage will come around 6 months after initial launch.
Cuck goggles are the dumbest tech devices ever
You OLED fags have no fucking clue what you are talking about. It's a usually skipped by manufacturers for a very good reason and the main 2 being the pentile screendoor effect and the absolutely abhorrent MURA effect which made me return psvr2 and go back to LCD in a heartbeat. How would you feel when those "amazing" blacks are totally invalidated by a film grain overlay that strains your eyes due to not being stereoscopic? It's a nightmare to get rid of MURA when manufacturing and it will be always there no matter what resolution.
>>107218001I'M BUYING ALL THE THINGSYOU SHOULD BUY ALL THE THINGSARE YOU A COMMUNIST?
>>107223260Using psvr2 I literally dreaded darkness for the wrong reasons, it's extremely distracting quirk to have bright noise overlay and dimming the screen to minimizing MURA was a garbage solution OLED users cope with.
>>107218838oled is trash
>>107223260VR is one of the only situations where I think OLEDs are justified. The grey "blacks" on all LCD headsets are awful to look at, and you have to look at them all the time in loading screens and shit. Yes, pentile is an issue, but screendoor is an issue with every single headset on the fucking market, and will remain an issue until they're putting 20k screens in them. Plus, it's not like VR screens get a lot of use, and none of that use is static content.
>>107218531i'd never wank with my eyes and ears covered. just not happening.
>>107223359>screendoor is an issue with every single headsetSamsung fixed it that one time by applying physical FXAA to the screen.
>>107223359Are you a bot? I literally just explained why the deep blacks are invalidated by MURA and you go on about "muh blacks" again?https://youtube.com/watch?v=tbbjbrtjjIY
>>107223039you're not just playing a game tho that's PC and console is for. vr is for immersion and walking by using a thumbstick is completely immersion breaking unless you live in a wheelchair
>>107223383Mura doesn't invalidate the blacks, it just gives the screen another shitty layer to go with the pre-existing screendoor issue. It's never going to look like you're not looking at a screen, at least until you have a minimum PPD that isn't hot ass. Now, if we're talking about a future headset where screendoor isn't an issue because you have a 24k screen, then sure, mura becomes a major issue.
>>107223133Actually not likely. The main problem is that with pancake lenses they will need micro oled panels as the others don't get bright enough or are not high resolution enough. These panels are insanely expensive. Apple paid a high premium to be the first company to release them in their apple vision pro. Valve was actually planing on using them but they are still too expensive, if we assume the Steam Frame to cost $800, then with OLED it would cost ~$1500. Add to this that they would never give it a more performant chip, as they want games to be steam frame verified and if now they all of a sudden have 2 different performance tiers, that would suck for devs. But now this snapdragon 8 gen 3 chip doesn't only need to render 2160x2160 pixels (~4.5 million) but maybe 3840x3840 (~14.5 million) That is 3x as many pixels.>Most people are gonna render through their pcs anywaySame thing, that is essentially double 4k resolution so imagine having to run a game at 2x4k 120fps. Just not gonna happen considering the few people that have a pc that good. And everyone else will be pissed if they do buy it but can't run shit at native on it. So they have to market it for the 5% that are maybe in the xx80-xx90 tier gpu market. Even the big screen beyond 2 only has 2560x2560 for a reason, and look at its price with no in to out tracking, standalone chip etc.
>>107223420>Mura doesn't invalidate the blacksoh shit nigga you saying that having a glowing overlay don't affect how you perceive blacks? oops my bad I guess my brain don't function properly and I should learn to ignore such flaws
>>107223567Not supporting the other guy but MURA is simpy uneven oled degradation as far as I know. Simply having oled screen calibration like on monitors would probably fix it. (Not supporting oled monitors either. This fucking sucks)
>>107223735Factory mura calibration is the only thing that makes some OLED VR headsets passable out of the box, it's been a thing since the original Vive. It makes headsets more expensive, and sacrifices the brightness and range of the display. Then it wears off anyway as the mura profile changes over time as the display degrades. It's all so tiresome.
>>107223844MicroLED is getting closer though, I recently saw that I think garmin released a smartwatch with a high PPI MicroLED screen. Soon we won't have to make any sacrifices anymore (except maybe price). I can see MicroLED vr headsets in the next 10 years.
>>107223896Microled suffers from mura aswell it's just getting finer so it's less noticable. LCD unfortunately is still king when it comes to clarity, I rather have clean grey blacks than glowing pixel smears on "deep blacks"Most normies don't notive it because it's their babbys first vr set so they have no reference but going back and foth from OLED to LCD I rather stay with LCD which I can decrease brightness and get similar blacks to dimmed OLED anyway.
Also VRlets that never tried multiple sets don't know how refresh rate is far more important than resolution when it comes to immersion. The average retard normie would be ok with 75hz oled garbage as long as it's 4k or some bullshit. There is a good reason valve sticks to LCDs and high refresh rates a 240hz vr set even at 1080p will feel amazing in comparison to 8k 90hz
>>107218327people are too lazy to stand up and play the games and you think locomotion would be any help to that?
>>107218327What do you mean by solve locomotion?
>>107218963damn, so 0 reason to upgrade from quest, only nintendo level steamies and vr youtubers are creaming themselves over thiswonder how much performance increase you can get from eyetracking though, it may be better to just upgrade into better router and gpu
DO NOT buy the frame. I want one and your shitty pleb hands should not be allowed to touch it. Go play in the dirt.
>>107218963>Valve refused comment on converting flat games to stereo 3Dwho the fuck cares
>>107224427retards, usuallythat's up to devs or moddersthere's some good solutions using reshade for example, should work in most gamesthe one game I couldn't get it to work well was Manifold Garden, because the way the non-euclidian shit is done (basically portals at code level) means it can't do 3d through portals which is extremely disorienting (still 2D pictures that you can go through and instantly go 3d)
>>107222230I think the whole "regular games in VR" thing is going to be a trap for people who have never used VR before. You're just going to get worse contrast, worse colors, worse PPD and maybe some optical artifacts from the lenses too. You're just better off looking at a real monitor or TV instead of a fake one inside a limited-fidelity headset. I think people hyping themselves over the whole "fake monitor in VR" shit are going to be for a very rude awakening if they actually try that shit out, the "real monitor in reality" option is going to be vastly superior.
Seems intriguingBut the Quest 3S is 90% of the way there and super cheapThe Dongle and FOVeated streaming are killer features, but apart from that it doesnt offer a ton>ARM to X86 layerCool in theory, in practice no VR game will run decently on the headset alone, that doesnt allready exist as an app for the Quest They should have really focused on making this a PCVR headset, used a cheap SOC no bullshit, priced competitively with Quest 3 with a focus on PCVR instead of running its own stuff>>107223359At this point I cant think of a single application beside office monitors where LCD is acceptable.For TVs LCD was never acceptable, that went CRT PLASMA OLED skipping LCD alltogether for the high end stuffFor Gaming Monitors OLED is decently cheap now and offers only advantagesFor Phones AMOLED has been the gold standard since the galaxy S3
>>107224546>fake monitor in VRLike, fuck, forget about gaming for a second.One of my hypothetical use cases for VR was going to be "virtual, multi-monitor set up." Not like a stupid, security-camera-feed wall that just overwhelms with information. I mean like, laying in bed watching a movie, get a notification and then glance over at the monitor for it, and while you're looking in the area there take a peek at the 4chan threads you have open to see if there are new replies.Then I found out nothing renders unless it's visible on one of your existing displays. So I'd have to buy a bunch of dummy plugs to emulate a connected monitor.Or, like, what if you're gooning and want to pick out some static images for fap material? Can't someone just make a fucking app that let's you grab an image out of your browser screen and place it statically in the 3d space around you?
vr is definitely the future. still the frame doesnt render non vr games in native vr. the revolution would to be make old games backwards compatible and find a way to render legacy games in native vr.
>>107223439Running VR at "native" resolution isn't really what you think it is. Having very high res panels would be more about avoiding the screen door effect than anything else, it's perfectly fine to render at lower res if your panels were insanely high pixel count. "Native" res still needs to go through the warping and scaling shit to make it look correct to your eyes AFTER it goes through the lenses, as such "native" res isn't actually 1:1 pixel mapped like it is on a regular monitor and there's no particularly huge quality boost for running native. If anything, the improvement as you increase resolution in VR is rather gradual and it continues even beyond native res, like if you can afford to supersample it's definitely worth it up to a point (due to said warping & the lack of 1:1 pixel mapping).>>107224684Computer desktop use is full of very small, very high fidelity detail (small text) and it looks like complete and utter shit in VR, much more so than a 3D rendered video game or even a movie. The pixel density required for this to work well to the point it can even approach competing with real monitors or the limits of human eyesight is going to be like an order of magnitude beyond what current headsets manage. This is not a viable usecase unless you have a hardon for it in particular and are willing to put up with extreme dogshit quality. In practical reality you only ever want to interact with your desktop from VR if you need to flip a setting or open a program or something while your headset is on and you don't want to take it off for something trivial. That's it. Everything else is too dogshit to actually do from inside a headset, you people cumming over the fake monitor shit are going to get mindbroken once you actually see what it looks like from inside a headset, temper your expectations.
>>107224759Maybe it's because I'm running a Pimax Crystal Light (no longer one of the top dogs, but still upper-tier resolution), but I've never had issues with text legibility. A 1080p screen takes up like 1/9th of the viewable area and that's entirely feasible to fit in the central viewing cone.Maybe it's different on a screen where that same display would be 1/4 or larger of the viewable area, and then you're just staring at billboard from 2 feet away?
>>107224813Because you're playing games designed for much lower res screens, and you're probably eager to move in close to make the screens take up more of your FOV.
>>107222859>You know you can get in a voice call with your buddies and stream a movie together, and you can watch it on a nice big screen instead of at 720p in VR, right?Those are different experiences you presumptuous twat. Your inability to understand that the randomness and commensurate serendipity is something /new/. In order for a new technology to flourish it needs to offer a new experience - that's what a "killer app" is in the technology context. By far the funnest thing I ever did in VR was log into a Bigscreen room and watch Boyz n the Hood with a bunch of random people some weekend night. It's not about "relying on it" but please keep projecting.As for SteamVR it doesn't matter if some features declined. The entire point is that because it's an open OS you can do whatever you want with it. Meta actively prevents this with their shitty Quest OS. They want to "guide" the experience of using VR but they are deeply unqualified for the task. Let the users determine what it is useful for.
>>107223359I've never once booted into VR and thought about the black colors. I'd rate light-leakage as a much more significant influence. Immersion is what matters with VR.
>>107218001This shit is ass. I was expecting it to be a Deck in the sense it would be a standalone VR headset with plenty of power. Why would I buy a mediocre wireless headset?
>>107224853Watching movies with other people is a lot of fun, I just don't understand how this is in any way a "killer app". This is like saying the internet browser on a PSP is a killer app because you can look at porn on your console.From what I understand of Meta's shitty headset, you can just hook it up through VD and then it's like using any other SteamVR set. Sure, the base software is junk and you need to send Zuck a picture of you getting zucced off to make an account, but if I was in the market for an outdated headset, I'd buy the Quest 3 because it's going to be cheaper.
>>107224052the movement on screen in an immersive VR world can be disorienting and cause motion sickness. that is because much of it was designed around watching from a distance on a flat screen. the two factors that matter are a good fit on the headset - so the mind doesn't get removed from the virtual world and create a mismatch between IRl and the movement on screen. The other factor is designing graphics that know that they will be used in this way. Subjectively the worst graphics in VR are when they feel "too close," which is common.Things work best when they are focused at a distance. The natural human vision fixates at about 20feet and so that should be the general guideline in designing VR.
>>107224711We need to stop thinking of VR as a purely games machine. That's the mistake a lot of people make when evaluating these products. Games are cool in VR but it's a nascent field. Old school 2D games are actually the best in VR now because they will use it as a really great monitor, which is what it is at the moment.
>>107224850No, I am literally talking about the web browser use case. Browsing a booru to find fap material while lying in bed in VR, and doing things like manipulating the tags for the image search and changing browser tabs.Like, yeah, I get that 2.7k x 2.7k screen directly against your face is very different pixel density than a 1080p screen 24 inches away. To get the same screen resolution in the headset, that 1080p screen needs to be much closer to your viewing point.But we have hardware right now that does it acceptably, even if something like an Index or Oculus headset is going to look especially like dogshit. So why isn't there software to support this use case?
>>107224925Because not a lot of people own these higher res headsets, and because nobody is really interested in doing this dogshit. It's a novelty, I have a far higher resolution screen and I don't have to have it 2 inches from my face. There are tools out there like virtual desktop, but if you're expecting a well thought out input layer, well, you're never going to get that with controllers. Get a K400 or something.
>>107224913>Old school 2D games are actually the best in VR now because they will use it as a really great monitor, which is what it is at the moment.It's a really shitty monitor. Why would I downgrade from a 35" 2160p display to a larger display with half the resolution at best? Old games look better at higher resolutions where you can apply shader effects.
>>107224964Even the Quest 2 is a better monitor for watching 2d content than any $2500 70" OLED you can buy. The point of higher res screens and bigger screens is to increase immersion. VR headsets have already reached that level they just need to be more comfortable.
>>107224877It is standalone and the headset has an arch-based OS on it meaning you can run all kinds of great stuff on it in that mode. That it also should relatively seamlessly work in pairing with the Steam pc is great for higher-end tasks that require heavier compute.I think that a major piece many are missing is that the current processing power of a decent smartphone is more than enough to drive VR experiences. The issue with adoption so far is mostly down to Meta and Apple having no idea what they're doing on the content side. Valve is opening that up to users, who definitely know what to do.
>>107225053No, it isn't, and no, they haven't.
>>107225082For which content?
>>107224684>Then I found out nothing renders unless it's visible on one of your existing displays. So I'd have to buy a bunch of dummy plugs to emulate a connected monitor.there's options out there to circumvent that, I use this one to have moonlight working when my laptop's lid is closedhttps://github.com/MolotovCherry/virtual-display-rs
>>107225133For all content. The resolution is far too low to be acceptable.
>>107218001>Are you buying the Deckard?Yes, I'll buy this piece of shit, but only because it's loonix.>I am not thrilled they went with LCD over OLEDwait for the refresh, just like they did with the SD OLED.
>>107224684On the Quest 3 via Airlink All the monitors on the PC power off and the headset creates virtual monitors
>>107224759hmm interesting, gonna look up how good one could render games on these 2160x2160 panels. Some games look rather simple so supersampling there could be rather cheap. Is there nothing other than higher resolution that could be done against the Screen Door Effect though?
>>107225914The "screendoor effect" is a nice name for being able to see the boundaries of individual pixels because the resolution is so poor. Just go look at a gameboy screen, even with the fanciest AA in the world you can't get around the massive size of each individual pixel.
>>107225914>Is there nothing other than higher resolution that could be done against the Screen Door Effect though?higher fill fraction of the pixels, which is arguably harder to do than higher resolution
>>107225985>higher fill fractioncouldn't one achieve this with one of those weird oled sub pixel layouts? I feel like they atleast looks like they are better. Unless of course VR also has fringing then.
>>107218838OLED in VR is retarded, i have a vive and I hate how fucking dark that shit gets specially with the lenses being as trash as they are, just makes it impossible to enjoy anything on that headset.
I just wanna know the price and when i can buy it.
>>107226121that really depends on if it's manufacturable at a scale that smallit's probably why most headsets now stick with the 3 strips design, robustness to manufacturing issues.
>>107225053It will be a long time before headsets match the PPD of 4k even when displaying a 70" one. But bright and contrast of VR headsets also suck. 100 nits SDR is typical.
>>107224947>I have a far higher resolution screen and I don't have to have it 2 inches from my face.The "monitor on your face" meme works against you. Optically a VR screen is 1.5-2 meters away. You would need a very large tv to use that much focal distance in real life.
>>107226310When I say "on my face", I mean physically here. From a weight and heat standpoint, obviously with the optical stack it appears further away, but the resolution is still just as garbage as if it was 2 inches away.
>>107224427This poster doesn't need 3d. Look how above it all he is. He wears an eyepatch and everything
>>107223371Thats because you don't live alone.
>>107218001What are you playing on it?I played some Beat Saber, I played some flying games like Flightsim and Elite. There no good flight games anymore. There no good mech games for VR. All the involved games tire me out after 3 hours. Honestly my Quest 2 just sits there in the drawer and does nothing. I don't think I touched it at all in the past year. Just about every game dave gave up on VR. Wolf and Spice 1 and 2, Yurucamp 1 and 2 are fun but they're not things I'll play daily they're like VR rides I paid for one and done.
>>107223986Even the cheapest mass market headsets can switch between 90 and 120hz which will be a much bigger difference. Some people are more sensitive to it than others.
>>107223439Damn, that entire post and you missed the part where the Frame doesn’t need to render all of those pixels at once, only the ones in your FOV at any given time thanks to foveated rendering/streaming.
>>107226419Bad news about foveated renderingIt has to be implemented by game devsI heard from the virtual desktop dev that foveated rendering doesn't work over wireless because the latency is too high. He said foveated streaming works because when you encode the video, you have more recent eye position data. But rendering the frame was too many milliseconds before that point to work out. You can increase the fovea size but then you lose the performance increase. At least it works in standalone though.
>>107226376>>There no good mech games for VR.Try iron rebellion.
>>107226457Yes thats software side, this is hardware side foveated rendering which is why people are so awestruck by it. Valve is way ahead of the game with this headset.
>>107226457So you have streaming for wireless and foveated rendering for standalone. Either way, you’re not rendering 2 4k displays at full resolution like anon says. Interesting to learn that info you were relayed, though, so thanks.
>>107223439>But now this snapdragon 8 gen 3 chip doesn't only need to render 2160x2160 pixels (~4.5 million) but maybe 3840x3840 (~14.5 million) That is 3x as many pixels.No you should just subsample it. It's still going to look better because no diminishing returns of super sampling, no screen door, and better contrast. Also there are older games especially flat ones, desktop use, PCVR streaming where standalone being able to drive the panels isn't an issue. There's no reason to kneecap the screens because modern standalone games won't max them out.
Also people are forgetting, its literally coming with a 6ghz adapter that doesn't connect to anything cept the headset, making streaming seemless and without interuption. The quest 3 was supposed to get this but idk i guess they never did it for some reason.
>>107226479No it's foveated streaming which is not foveated rendering. These are two different technologies. There's no solution to foveated rendering where it just works on every game.>>107226484Yeah I didn't read the full context before replying my bad
>>107218001I'm getting one on release, probably. The GNU/Linux-friendliness and foveated streaming is getting back into VR again after ditching my Oculus Rift after the zucc got his stinky mittens on it. I think it will also be the almost perfect GNU/Linux hackerino tool while being on the go when combined with a bluetooth keyboard. The meh-spec'd display is a bit of a bummer but I'm still hoping for after market upgrades or a high-end Frame-version for enthusiasts down the line.
>>107226521well either way it works good because of the adapter and not needing to connect directly to your router, honestly i can't wait to buy this headset, i just hope its not $800 i'm hoping its more around $650
>>107226538valve better make a shit ton or we're looking at delays like the index again
>>107218963>sucks facebook's dick for VR, complains about not being able to give handies without a controller too
>>107226585>complains about not being able to give handies without a controller tooGood morning to you too saars
Or better yet, go to a fucking movie theater and get popcorn thrown in your hair by zoomers. But the VR shills made their point: a lot of them want Quest3-tier hardware and capabilities with a more user and developer friendly software stack. That makes the valve Deckard a desirable product for THEM, all 0.15% of them probably.
>>107226677as a vive user I haven't put my headset on for 2 months now because I hate being tethered, but I refuse to use a quest cause fuck needing a retarded meta account to use a headset, I also hate the lag spikes I get despite being RIGHT next to my fucking router.
>>107226677like anyone here has hair, get real
>>107226733i did til yesterday, now im a cu-ball
>>107226677why do people use quest 2 so much though? i don't get it, its so shitty and you can get a quest 3 or 3s with better lenses.
>>107226733You see, he didn't really specify which type of hair tho...
>>107226774You see quest pro but not quest 3 on the list, these poll results are ancient
>>107226390OLED fags really can't move their heads can they? 90Hz, high-persistence, mura>oh but the blacks are so inkyLike ink smeared across my fucking eyeballs.
>>107226282my point is that you can't compare them 1:1. It's already pretty good - something like a Beyond2 is most likely at that level.
>>107226879you're blind. Its ok though I understand alot of headsets to look through.
>>107225979That's not what the screendoor effect is though. It's the fill ratio of the panel, a lower fill ratio means big gaps between pixels. You could have Gameboy-tier resolution, if the pixels are packed tightly together without gaps there won't be SDE. You could have twin 4k panels, but if the gaps between the pixels are wide enough to see then you still get SDE.
>>107226538this guy gets it. many like us.
>>107226774because they bought a Quest 2 several years ago and the upgrade isn't really good enough to justify the cost.
>>107226774basically >>107226990I'd have to buy the quest 3 (quest 3s isn't even worth discussing) and prescription lenses again
>>107227003meanwhile i bought prescription lenses for a vive and quest 3, guess which one i sold? quest 3 cause fuck meta, but also yea like i said still don't really use my vive either these days, the lenses just suck.
