Blow has a really retarded and myopic mindset about linux, i wouldn't take anything he says about it seriously.

>>107241441
Not really. I like Blow, but like any autist who runs his mouth he says a lot of retarded shit amongst the gems.

No

>>107241441
thank fucking god somebody says this shit. god i fucking hate package management, what a retarded mongoloid fucking idea. fucking loonixtards somehow got conn'd into thinking it's normal to get all your fucking software through a middle man """maintainer""" more like blackmailer who decides whether he'll update something or keep it in repo based on how much he needs it and how much you beg, nah no thanks.

Not really. Blow isn't usually right about anything.

s o k o bans

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>>107241470
>I like Blow
Why? He's just a pretentious midwit who made a couple shitty games more than a decade ago.

>>107241579
Because he has things to say and triggers actual midwits. Also The Witness is kino.

>>107241441
No, you can use the steam linux runtimes.

>>107241441
There has never once been a MITM attack on linux. Supply chain, sure. Not MITM.

>>107241441
You are a massive faggot
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/1990243429247574436

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>>107241579
Let's see you make a game that sells >1 million units and makes 8 figure profits, TWICE.

>>107241529
Half the aur sources the package directly from the upstream git repo

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>>107241625
wtf is this shit nigga did I get haxxored?

>>107241625
>Yes, those will work a decent fraction of the time on a decent fraction of machines.
What the fuck did he mean by this?

>>107241633
doesn't mean he knows shit about operating systems

>>107241636
That's morrocancams.com anon. I shit you not.
It's blocked here thanks to our authoritarian government, enjoy your virus on the embed! you got MITM'ed!!!

>>107241651
OK, and? How does the rebunk your faggot post >>107241579

>>107241636
You use 4chan X, right?
The tweet embedded site it hands off tweets to lost the domain, and this site bought them and redirects.

>>107241633
I notice you haven't mentioned the Braid remaster.

>>107241703
Ah ok, thanks anon.

>>107241633
lets sees yous makes a sokobans game

>>107241633
>revenue automatically translates to quality
You must think all AAA games are fucking masterpieces, then

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The Witness is heckin good and I don't care if Blow says something dumb now and then (or every day for that matter), because he also has interesting things to say. He triggers a lot of faggots because he dares to have opinions.

>Jonathan Blow
post it

>>107241441
That is a retarded take.

>>107241529
Then don't use that distro if you don't like the maintainers? Make your own, even! Just build and install software yourself, if you want to. There are plenty of options.

>>107241529
This. The first time I saw Linux was way before appstores and even steam walled garden. It baffled me how open sores had this much central control over what software you can run on your machine without jumping thru hoops that could make Bill Gates blush.

>>107241529
lintroons ironically turned loonix into the biggest most bloated walled garden ever

>>107241441
Sort of. Just follow Valve's recommendation for games and develop for Win32 and just test on Proton / Wine. Targeting Linux userspace APIs is unnecessary wasted effort, they'll be broken in 5 years anyway.

>>107241441
It's funny that all of his complaints about linux don't exist on mac os but he refuses to use that too.

>>107241872
blow might be dumb but he's not dumb enough to be a macfag

>>107241529
Joke's on you. I am the maintainer for my distro.

>>107241441
isn't Steam "the man in the middle" for him already?

>>107241886
Name one thing you can't do on mac os that you can do on linux.

>>107241905
use vulkan directly

>>107241905
unironically game

>>107241905
Playing video games is far harder on mac, to name one thing (inb4 "no it isn't" - cut the bullshit you nigger). Mac has a lot worse problems that that though.

>>107241633
>he made money, so he has to be right
so you take seriously people by the money that they made/make but not what they say?

>>107241633
Blow has literally said on stream that The Witness outsold both Braids combined

>>107241634
only half? gee, sounds trustworthy.

>>107241910
vulkan works natively on linux, did you mean directx?

>>107241579
you just answered yourself
retards worship midwits

>>107242032
>reading comprehension

>>107242032
you CAN NOT use vulkan directly on Macs
you CAN use vulkan directly on linux
learn to read.

>>107241441
thats a retarded criticism. linux userland is fine with binaries, the problem is libs dont have apis because POETTERING IS THE PRACTICE OF CONSOOMING COMMUNITIES BY REPLACING EXISTING APIS WITH YOUR BRANDED APIS TO ADVANCE YOUR CAREER IN A WORSENED MARKET it is a form of enshittification
* sound got poettered by alsa, pulseaudio, and pipewire
* graphics got poettered by gayland
* the desktop and widget api got poettered by gnome 3
* miscellaneous system daemons and their init system got poettered by systemd
consequently no one knows whats going on anymore and no one can predict anything. windows is unironically a more understandable platform, not to mention easier to target because win32 will always be available with the calls having the same meaning as always
time for linus to do what he threatened and standardize the userspace apis

>>107241529
Modern package managers exist so you don't have to unpack and compile tarballs while managing dependencies and overall system rot yourself. If you don't like your distro's mantainers either switch to a distribution you actually like or do everything the boomer way with Slackware.

>>107241441
The fuck is he even talking about?

>>107241633
lmao, good thing I never gave him any money and never touched any of those "games".

>>107242156
"package managers bad because i refuse to learn basic things and have bad experiences"

>>107241529
package manager is what he meant by "middle man", god damn what a retard and you are also included in that.

open source ftp servers are evil

rtvrn to shareware browser toolbars

>>107241805
>Just needlessly complicate your life, goy

>>107241529
Compile it yourself dood.

>>107241441
You can compile your software into an archive and distribute that. I'm pretty sure apt lets you install straight from a .deb, packman you can distribute pkgbuilds, etc. Of course most people don't want to do that, but you can still distribute a tar with all the files that the user can extract in /opt, if you are desperate to do things the windows way.

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>>107242060
>time for linus to do what he threatened and standardize the userspace apis
God I wish. Make this piece of shit operating system great again.

>>107241441
>>107241529
AppImages were the last chance for Linux to be a normal desktop OS, but they decided to go with Flatpaks instead since loonixtards can't comprehend not getting their software through a centralized repo.

>>107242095
>unpack and compile tarballs while managing dependencies and overall system rot yourself
Or I could use Windows/Mac where this is somehow not a problem at all.

>>107242401
OK, thanks for telling us!

>>107242401
thanks to choco and homebrew

>>107241441
I mean he could have just said "app stores" but he's got the right idea. Dependency is one thing freetards love a lot more than freedom.

>>107242633
Maybe stop smoking crack.
You want more freedom than "double click executable file, enjoy"? You want the computer to give you a complimentary blowjob at the same time as you run your arbitrary executable file?

>>107242232
Literally don't use stuff if you don't like it. How hard is this to understand? If you want a solution you do like make it yourself you self-entitled midwit.

>>107241712
>Braid remaster
That was brilliant: let's take a niche 2D game that still looks fine as it is, and add a bunch of extra details that no one asked for.

>>107241960
Sounds to me like he's trying to pretend Braid doesn't exist anymore because of how he openly fucking cried about how no one "got" it.

>>107241441
Linux is for fags, so is Mac and Windows

why do you people act like you have to agree with everything somebody said to agree with any one thing in particular. is this an EOP thing?

>>107242748
based, console gaymer is the way to go.

>>107241441
Potato, potato. With Windows you have a man right behind your back type of attacks. You can develop games targeting Windows nowadays by targeting Win32 API + SDL and then running the thing with Proton. And for profiling there's tracy. Only good debugger is lacking, but I wouldn't call nowadays Visual Studio a good one either.

>worried about package managers being MITM'd
>publishes on Steam
?????????????????

don't smartphone ecosystems work like that?

>>107241441
the only person that will ever love him is his own mother

>>107242303
>Error: Missing dependency dickMan-3.4.5!
>Error: Requires fagballs version >=0.4.9 but only version 0.5.0 found.
I've had that second one happen to me way too many times. Then you go hunt down one of the dependencies and you have to compile it and it depends on some more shit that's incompatible with your current system. You have to dive into nested dependency errors until you end up compiling a whole new operating system.

>>107241441
no, and his statement is plan false, you can just run binaries if you realy want.

>>107242060
I think he complains about the package managers culture and that things are not distributed the same way (typically) like on Windows, instead of the userspace stack itself. He wants to copy paste programs freely, click their executables and they should "just work".

>>107242912
AppImages and Flatpaks solve this.

>>107242942
And for games you have Steam Runtime.

>>107242934
This is unironically the most retarded aspect of Linux. Linuxfags have Stockholm syndrome for this shit.

>>107243008
dynamic linking is what causes problems and why linux binaries are a mess.
Thankfully static linking is becoming more standard.

>>107241905
You can't redistribute or modify macOS as a whole
I also continue to hear about its' locked down systems, that prevent installing software not approved by the masters

>>107243008
>>107243033
Just use the package manager for system applications and then use statically linked for shit like games or whatever. I mean what am I going to randomly download different binaries for curl, gcc, etc. and expect them to work? Of course not.

>>107242331
>they decided to go with Flatpaks instead
Who pray tell is the almighty committee that decided this? And when did they decide it?
>AppImages
werks on my machine
>Flatpaks
also werks on my machine
>Distro repos
also werks on my machine

Sounds like a (You) problem lil' bro.

>>107241441
Jonathan Blow is the smartest man alive. He built his own OS and streams on Twitch in his spare time. How many of you can say the same?

>>107243165
it'd be nice if he actually started his OS instead of having mini-melties everyday about linux and windows

>>107242872
Stop noooticing things, goy

>>107241529
Add your own repo and distribute packages that way, you cocksucker. Or just use AppImages.

i'm not aware of a single linux distro that prevents or even restricts third party software

>>107241441
>>107241529
So windows I can just get this thing called binaries, I double click it, and it works. Why can't linux do this?

>>107243581
there are binaries on linux. they use the ELF format. what an utterly moronic post.
>hurr durr why use package management
because it's a less retarded method of installing software than shipping a separate package manager binary ("installer", what do you think that is?) with every single program that does god knows what

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>>107243581
it can

>>107243581
It can, are you retarded?

>>107243165
https://litter.catbox.moe/ktgjerm4gxws8lup.mp4
https://litter.catbox.moe/6ybxqq47qm3o3f8f.mp4

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>>107243553
He's complaining that they can't run kernel level anticheat on Linux and Linus Torvalds will never let them.

>>107241579
Not that anon, but you have a subtractive view of people's worth. You think it's just a matter of tallying the flaws you can find with them. If I had a subtractive view of you right now I would write you off as faggot, but that would be dumb because on a different day you would be saying something I strongly agree with or resonates with me. I can't follow you around and get a useful sample size. There's a survivor bias to what I even witness you say. If you said something typical I would keep scrolling. You're probably only going to hear about Blow when he says or does something retarded. And there's something retarded with everyone. Are you not friends with a single pretentious person? A midwit? Someone who makes shitty games? Why are these unforgivable sins?

Say dumb shit and I'll forget it eventually. There's nobody I respect that has not said dumb shit on multiple occasions. Say something nobody says with conviction and I'll care forever.

>>107243581
21st century tech. linux ain't there yet
>>107243649
>bro just run the 400 megabyte shell script bro. just pipe it into sudo bro don't worry it's safe

>>107243621
>>107243649
>>107243662
So I want to believe you guys but some odd years ago I would ask why linux can't do image preview thumbnails and I would be immediately told it can...

"can" can mean can or "can".

>>107241529
on windows i just click the .exe and it just works. switch to a better os.

>>107243707
appimages and flatpaks are the two most common ways to just run shit by double clicking them
You've been able to double click to install packages on fedora and debian for 20+ years now

>>107243686
>bro just run the 400 megabyte shell script bro. just pipe it into sudo bro don't worry it's safe
it's an archive attached to the end of a shell script, and it's not being run as root
this is an official game installer from Good Old Games, not different whatsoever than a GOG windows game installer exe

>>107243686
i hope you realize .msi is no different from a bash script installer

>>107243165
Go to bed, John.

so what's stopping devs from using LD_PRELOAD to ship and force their own libs?

>>107241905
containers

>>107243949
nothing, standalone installers like gog already do that. they work identically to windows intallers

>>107243683
>Why are these unforgivable sins?
nta but because Blow is stubborn about his shittier opinions whilst being put on a pedestal by upper-midwits and put in your face on several social media platforms if you're in the gamedev bubble. it's one thing to say something dumb, it's another to confidently say dumb things and advocate them indefinitely whilst self-promoting.

>>107242232
>>107242401
>>107241529
your problem is probably using apt instead of a real package manager (like portage)
I use apt on my work computer and I cant believe how shit it is

>>107242912
You're complaining about this as if it's what Blow Jobs is crying about, but clearly he wants to do things the DLL way and would link the libs statically.

>>107244294
Nah you have a higher tolerance for this than you think. Nobody changes their mind here or anywhere else even when you have them dead to rights in an argument and they know it. Yet you choose to hang out with us anyway.

Also disliking someone more because they are overrated is, well I guess they should've been more careful not to become overrated lmao

>>107241441
It's been a while since the last time Jonathan Blow was right about anything.

>>107244302
But really why does linux have to be so retarded. Why cant you install offline from a file?

>>107244438
>why does linux have to be so retarded
Made by and for midwit tinkerers who see figuring out shitty UIs as a point of pride

>>107242095
Dynamic linking breeds mental illness. Get better soon, Anon.

>>107244366
nah you're making a load of assumptions. sounds like you're one of those stubborn people you describe, but ascribing it to everyone. i value truthseeking and open-mindedness and detest presumptuous closed-mindedness so no, your point is moot. i don't have to like everyone in an environment to participate in it. in fact, showing that someone i dislike is wrong publicly is great. if there's anyone here i'd like to "hang out" with it's a small minority. and what i described isn't reducible to that person just being overrated.

>>107242331
>Doesn't mention compiling from source

>>107241441
no, he's not harsh and condemning enough

>>107241854
*5 weeks

>>107241854
just use sdl
done

>>107242942
>just bundle the entire fucking environment bro
the utter fucking state of freetards

>>107244547
>>just bundle the entire fucking environment bro
that's how windows programs are distributed, yes.

>>107243581
Yes Linux can do that, but it's retarded to go on the web to find packages when you can just type a command to install anything. This thread is incredibly retarded.

>>107244547
what is so difficult about statically linking things?

>>107244311
"the dll way" and the "static libs" way are opposite to each other. dll literally stands for "dynamic link library", or a library dynamically linked in at runtime, as opposed to a statically linked library which is linked at build time

>>107241441
This is a fair criticism of traditional package manager systems, but you don't need to use those anymore. Arguably you never did. They're just a convention.
Other options include
>flatpak/snap (it's mildly annoying that you need both but whatever)
>appimage
>statically linked standalone binary (see: golang)
>docker (ideal for dev tools and sever software)
>steam linux runtime

>>107244587
If you link statically against a GPL based dependency, your whole program gets GPLed and requires you to fully open it.

>>107244587
certain things don't make sense to, like you can't statically link libgl, because that would lock your software to a specific vendor

>>107244469
i'm convinced most people here don't know what dynamic linking even is. protip: it does not mean separately-installed libraries

>>107244547
that's what windows programs do, if it's not part of the base windows libraries, it needs to be shipped with the software. With a couple exceptions like .net/vcruntimes which are typically installed separately

A lot of people complaining about this don't seem to realise how windows works, either

>>107241441
this is the type of shit that makes me never take what Blow or Muratori say about Linux seriously
he might as well reply with the OS version of these >>107243664

>>107244446
Midwits have to ruin everything

>>107241529
In overseas internet slang, this is called a truthnuke, or a truth nuclear bomb.

>>107241607
He's referring to the way software is distributed by package managers.

just make your own distro

>>107241529
What a dumb take. Sure, there is a middle man, if you push your app on Flathub or ask a Distro to maintain your package. But:
>You can distribute .rpm's or .debs
>You can host 3rd party repos
>Heck you can even host your flatpak repo
what is this bullshit about? You don't need a middle man for software. It's just more "complicated" because no distro would let any random upload packages.

>>107245287
>no distro would let any random upload packages.
Cowards.

>>107244438
>sudo dpkg -i /path/to/file

>>107241854
Valve's games work natively though.

>>107242060
>>107242313
Linus is a corpo whore. His userspace APIs would be just as fucked as whatever Red Hat is doing because all he cares about is sucking corpo cock.

The real solution would be to reject all corpo shit altogether and go back to pure GNU, but the community is too demoralized and brainwashed to even acknowledge GNU as an operating system so the control will continue to be on the hands of corpo whores.

>>107242912
Libraries can be included in the tarball. This is considered bad practice because said libraries will never be updated.

Not that any if this matters, this was already solved ten years ago by Canonical's Snap and Red Hat's Flatpak. I don't know why imbeciles ITT are acting as if this issue has not been solved yet.

>>107243707
It's because you used arch linux and forgot that you have to set the env var to use the KDE file picker yourself.
And install the appropriate package for that.

>>107241529
Anon you know how much time you save by not having to compile your own libraries and go through the mini version of DLL hell each time you write software.
I might at some point write my own .pc files and add install scripts for .dlls to my build file so that I get the binary in a launchable state.

At best you use a stable version of the DLL that's shipped somewhere on github.
But sometimes you get axed under the bus, because you have to use git-master version of SDL2 which no longer gets stable releases.

On other hand I wouldn't want to deal with somebody else's .so files, half the Linux games don't even launch, the only Linux games that launch are valve games and Borderlands.

>>107245537
We on windows use this thing called "3rdparty" and "externals" folder. Do troonix users really?

>>107241441
>be jblow
>complain about stuff, shit on people for not taking action
>valve picks up linux, design gabedeck
>blow hates it
>valve kept working on steamos
>blow hates it
>valve is now putting out its own line of hardware
>blow still hates it
>blow loves sweeney for some reason

>>107243033
>dynamic linking is what causes problems and why linux binaries are a mess.
This.
I hope one day we can be rid of the cancer that is glibc and its retarded license and forced dynamic linking humiliation ritual.

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>>107245262
He's also referring to the way software is downloaded through cloudflare.

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>>107245287
>ask a Distro to maintain your package

>>107241441
Jonathan Blow is a winblow fan because it has his favorite pastime, which is also his name, in it.

>>107241529
can't you just compile from source?
there's multiple entire distros dedicated to just using source code instead of pre-made packages.

>>107242095
slackware is based
i kneel slackchads

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>blow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWqnz-7iQbY

>>107241529
this desu
>true freedom is when you're dependent on an appstore managed by some gay furry
topkek, Linux is not a serious OS

>>107241529
>I hate optional convenience
Don't do it then.

>>107246538
>Linux is not a serious OS
Based

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>>107243686
>>bro just run the 400 megabyte shell script bro. just pipe it into sudo bro don't worry it's safe

>setup.exe
>random executable from the internet
>perfectly ok, normal
>setup.sh
>random executable from the internet
>bro just run the big ass shell script bro don't worry it's safe

>>107241529
>>107241441
Trivial HMAC verification is all that is necessary to prevent this kind of thing. Package managers are more aobut keeping your system uniformly functional rather than preventing vulnerabilities. Futhermore Appimage and Flatpak are becoming more common for distributing things like games and other less integrated applications. Steam itself is also a package manager and the majority of Windows games are distributed through Steam at this point, including Blow's. This argument is completely bogus.

>>107245882
Blow is a professional whiner, he doesn't even make games anymore he just makes long, annoying complaints about the state of the industry he is no longer really contributing to anymore.

>>107243664
lmao

>>107241633
Thats fine and all. But did it really take 7 sevens and 6 million dollars to make a fucking 3D puzzle game?

>>107241529
...You know you can just download and install programs without a package manager right?

>>107245492
Because they predate Proton. Going forward, the recommendation is to prefer Proton over native Linux. Third party game releases had various issues with Linux when Valve switched to containers to ensure games can't accidentally depend on system libraries, as that's exactly what they did.

>>107241529
The people who reply to this post with "but you'd have to clone the repo and compile everything from scratch otherwise!!!!!" are dense. The true alternative is to have a proper desktop operating system where you can just double click the executable and it just launches the program.

>>107244526
>>107241854
lets just pretend i didn't already make a video installing something i downloaded 5 years ago (which was probably already a few years old) and installed and ran it without any additional work

>>107247127
Switching all development to be Proton-only is the kind of myopic shit that I fully expect from corporations. It's a gigantic pile of technical debt.

>>107241529
Kek good job baiting these retards

If AppImages catched on instead of shitpak this would not be the case

>>107245882
he is a control freak who hates
>the mindless masses
having any freedom

I am surprised he is not praising gnome
is he even going to open source jai or will it be an ivory tower closed source mystery box?

>>107241529
Yeah they always end up adding patches that break shit too. Arch Linux is probably the least bad in this regard but I'd rather just keep using Windows. I've used the MITM analogy before and it's a reliable way to get a melty from the same people who love dynamic libraries (aka dependency hell)

>>107244487
Your self assessment is worthless, sorry. Nothing could be less reliable

You criticize me for assumption and then follow the next sentence with "sounds like" and a worst case appraisal even though you don't know me. But my point is more or less do because you know what people in general are like. This is what I'm trying to tell you. Also it's not an assumption so much as it's a pattern for humans that rarely produces exceptions. And yes I ascribe this to myself, I'm only truthseeking and open-minded to a point. Believing I'm better than everyone else in this regard without evidence would be dangerous.

I also didn't say you have to like everyone. I said you like most people despite their common human flaws. But you're implying you only like a minority of people here yet you choose to have discussion here. There are times and places for that but not for casual tech news. And I didn't say you disliked him just because he's overrated, I'm saying that's not a fair reason to because it's not. I won't accuse you of not being truthseeking and open minded but you do need to read slower if you're really about that.

This thread is another example out of millions why Linux will never be used by the average individual, just read through this dumb ass shit.

>>107249996
you're right. the average user is just too dumb. if their computer didn't come with windows they'd never figure out what to choose. linux isn't chosen for them so they'll never use it

>>107250063
>i'm smart because i use linux

>>107242934
>>107243008
you literally can do that though
what is it with retards not understanding how dynamic linking works?

>>107250349
the replies to this thread suggests to me that at least some winfags think that "dynamic linking" means "libraries are installed individually and separately". like they don't even know how windows software is distributed, much less linux

>>107249783
actually, "sounds like" is deliberately used to show that i'm not committing to a presumption, unlike you who makes definitive claims. and you're still making assumptions beyond what i'm actually saying. not gonna take this further cus you're married to your delusion and will #-down indefinitely, have a good one.

>>107241441
No, I use appimages all the time

>>107241529
>Package Manager
>Man in the Middle Attack
I get what he's going for, but: That's not a MITM attack.

>>107241633
Hi, Jonthan! You Blow... hard...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1985690/The_Looker/

Jonathan Blow is right. Linux userspace is cancer. A Windows 95 program can run on Windows 11. An Ubuntu 24 program often can't run on Ubuntu 25 (or any other distro).

>>107241441
Yes

>>107244438
You can if you want. You can also just run a package from a pre-made bundle without installing anything.

>>107242958
but (((steam))) is drm so they can fuck right off

>>107241441
idgi
you can download any software you want

this is a braindead take and he has no idea what he's talking about. it's literally never been true.

>>107241441
Is this idiot really conflating an MitM attack with the potential of a supply chain attack?
Really?

Maybe Johnny-boy should lay off the substance of his last name and realize that supply chain attacks are not exclusive to central distribution, but are equally likely to occur with any piece of software you build and that takes any type of dependency.

Also- it's not like platforms like Steam have managed to stay clear of things either. Steam has had lasting problems with account hijacks and malware injections into legit games, to the point that Valve decreed enough was enough and mandated use of 2FA TOTP prompts on every deployment action - without any support for automation unless you would be willing to reverse engineer it yourself via instrumenting their 2FA app.

>>107252108
I don't think the MitM terminology is that wrong. The user thinks they're interacting with a thing provided by party A but it's actually been tampered with by party B before getting to them.

>>107241441
You can always just bundle your own dependencies (just like on Windows), nothing forces you to use the system libraries. This even goes for the standard library, the only thing you can't truly bundle is the syscalls.

>>107241441
Is this another question engagement bait thread?

DEAD INTERNET
DEAD INTERNET
DEAD INTERNET

>>107241777
https://youtu.be/gWqnz-7iQbY

>>107241441
no

>>107252237
How come literally no program on Linux does this then?

>>107253207
Games and proprietary corporate software do, foss software typically doesn't.

>>107250349
>what is it with retards not understanding how dynamic linking works?
The way dynamic linking "works" is by the software developer giving the user DLL files in the program's Program Files folder, which are loaded by the program using LoadLibrary.
The way dynamic linking "doesn't work" is by the software developer giving the user a list of 600 dependencies he is expected to get from wherever the fuck he wants, the app store being expected to download 500 more dependencies and their dependencies and their dependencies and their dependencies, and so on, and all this being shat all over the system, and calling this le heckin troonix philosophy.

>>107241579
>>107243683
am i getting deja vu or have i already read these comments before?

>>107243719
>find loonix program you are interested in
>20 cli commands to first install other 5 dependencies without which the program can't run
>after installing 2, the 3rd throws an error, package missing, the owner stopped maintaining or pulled it out completely

>b-but cli installation is the way to go, are you retarded

This is typical of the linux world. A lot of autists throwing tantrums everywhere. As someone perfectly described the situation, it's like trying to herd cats

>>107243719
>appimages and flatpaks are the two most common ways to just run shit by double clicking them
You can't fucking double click flatpaks, you can't even fucking download them. You must install them from the app store.

>>107253257
>The way dynamic linking "doesn't work" is by the software developer giving the user a list of 600 dependencies he is expected to get from wherever the fuck he wants
So--- about those VC++ runtime redistributable installers...

>>107253320
Pretty much the only example for library sharing on Windows, and they literally just work.
>You can have multiple versions installed at the same time
>you're free to distribute the installer
>you're free to statically link them too
You can't do any of these with glibc.

>>107253320
Except you know those exist and can rely on installing them from a source at all times. They don't belong to some autist who got upset one day and made the package vanish, because some oil company was using it and that was harming the planet

>>107245537
Can't they have a way to include libraries along with the binary but if more recent ones are found on the system then use those?

>>107253441
Instead, you rely on billion dollar companies pulling the plug on your redistributable instead.

Tell me, anon, how well is the Flash/Flex redistributable for desktops doing these days?

How well is Silverlight doing?

>>107253377
>Pretty much the only example for library sharing on Windows
Easy Anti-cheat and similar DRM solutions use standalone installers that self-update.
Several launchers used by big videogame publishers use standalone installers as well, which are forced on development studios to use if they want to publish through said publisher.

>>107241441
>e-celeb dev bases his whole argument on his own ignorance.
Sad. Many such cases.

>>107254089
>Easy Anti-cheat and similar DRM solutions use standalone installers that self-update.
Skill issue, never even heard of such a thing let alone used it
>app stores and launchers
You're grasping at straw here. Steam games are still more portable when cracked than any linux program.

>>107247955
Yes, but it's not *their* technical debt anymore. Keeping Proton up to date with whatever underlying libraries it uses is the job of Valve / CodeWeavers. They get to just call win32 CryptoAPI, and it's CW who bothers with updating the underlying implementation from OpenSSL 1.x to 3.x. It externalizes cost.

>>107241441
why should we listen to a guy who work in on 2 decent 25 years old game for modern day game programming ?
pretty sure automaker don't take the model T as the base technology for their new cars

>>107253257
>600 dependencies he is expected to get from wherever the fuck he wants, the app store being expected to download 500 more dependencies and their dependencies and their dependencies and their dependencies, and so on
This isn't the problem. That would work fine if it worked. The problem is that as soon as you ever need multiple versions of a symbol you're fucked. That is what dependency hell means. And it's why Linux drops support for hardware sooner than Windows despite the stereotype, to say nothing of the software. Take Python, nothing even works on the latest version of Python for the first 6 months but you can't use an old version on Linux.

>>107254150
>You're grasping at straw here.
No, I'm showing you a small contigent of all the things out there other than VC++ runtimes that were supposed to be
>pretty much the only example for library sharing on Windows

>>107242095
Or how about the dev just ships an installer with all the dependencies included and those dependencies get placed in the same folder as the main executable? And when the executable is run..... the system looks for the dependencies in the same folder as the executable first?
Imagine needing Flatpaks or AppImages just to simulate this behavior.

>>107254323
True, though distribution itself is a problem too because the packages get removed from their original location all the time, while on windows you can download an exe from archive.org from 2002 and it works.
The philosophy behind not handling multiple versions is absolutely retarded. It's as if they told you "use case? why would you want to use anything but the latest version?"
Freetards often like to do what is easy and not what it right. Add license autism to the story and you get the humiliation that is Linux today.
This is why everyone uses Docker.

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>>107254413
>just bundle GPU drivers for every GPU in existence bro
>just include all those dependencies bro
>NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST BUY A NEW GPU NOW I HAVE TO UPDATE ALL MY BUNDLED DEPENDENCIES
>download old program
>no work because your GPU is too new
It's almost like there's good reasons to link to your system libraries. I wonder how Windows does it.

>>107254467
Why would an app give a shit about GPU libraries?
It should just include the libraries the actual app needs to run

>>107249783
>>107250632
I agreed with your first post but yeah other anon is right, you think you figured out the "human pattern of everything basically" and make assumptions while telling yourself you're immune to doing so because you're self-aware. Pretty impressive self-fooling delulu thinking technique, you can feel self righteous about doing the exact thing you're telling others is bad!

>>107254491
How is your app gonna put something on a window without GPU libraries, hmm?
Not all of us are writing toy command line homework problems in Rust.

>>107254539
I don't get why an app would need direct control of the GPU for that. The point of an operating system is to be a bridge between the hardware and the software.

>>107254491
It's almost comical how most of you newfags are absolutely tech illiterate, or dare I say retarded, for being on this board. Without the GPU libs your fucking monitor couldn't display ANY apps, even the ones installed by your magic bundle system, because the OS couldn't fucking talk to your physical GPU without the libs translating. Is this a suitable googoogaga explanation or do you need to know what an OS is? And for all the other retards crying about MITM package managers or screaming that you can't install anything offline, you could just download every program from the dev's site or whatever and double click the archive if it's already a .deb/.rpm which would function EXACTLY like installing shit on windows, the .deb is your "installation wizard" but you're the wizard now. Or if not already packaged in a .deb or other retard-proof package, just have a script to compile and install from source, you could even link that script to a mouse event so you can double click to install or some shit.

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>>107254570
>I don't get why an app would need direct control of the GPU for that.
>Yeah bro, who would want their video game to use their GPU? Not me, haha.
How do you think DirectX and Vulkan work? They're shared libraries provided by the OS that gives applications access to the GPU. Different GPUs get different shared libraries. If you can't into this, then you're fucking retarded and should leave this board in shame.

>>107254491
It's almost comical how most of you newfags are absolutely tech illiterate, or dare I say retarded, for being on this board. Without the GPU libs your fucking monitor couldn't display ANY apps, even the ones installed by your magic bundle system, because the OS couldn't fucking talk to your physical GPU without the libs translating. Is this a suitable googoogaga explanation or do you need to know what an OS is? And for all the other retards crying about MITM package managers or screaming that you can't install anything offline, you could just download every program from the dev's site or whatever and double click the archive if it's already a .deb/.rpm which would function EXACTLY like installing shit on windows, the .deb is your "installation wizard" but you're the wizard now. Or if not already packaged in a .deb or other retard-proof package, just have a script to compile and install from source, you could even link that script to a mouse event so you can double click to install or some shit.

Having to depend on software from manufacturers was a mistake, just admit this fact. They made corps/singular individuals have all of the control and powe over everyone else.

>>107241441
>jonathan blow

AYO AND HE NEVER RUNS OUT OF THAT UHHHHHHHHH............ GO-BACK-IN-TIME UHHH... POTION

>>107241746
masterpieces at making money, yes.

>>107254657
>what is an abi

>>107254693
>Without the GPU libs your fucking monitor couldn't display ANY apps
Not what we're talking about, retard.

>>107247215
>double click .exe
>doesn't work because of missing .net dependency
Huh

>he insist upon himself
Bruh

>>107254795
Go on, explain how I can use the GPU with this "abi" that doesn't involve dynamic libraries.

>>107254827
I guess you'd need a library for that, but you wouldn't need to keep updating it.
And, if you don't need Vulkan/DirectX, you don't need that shit at all.

>>107254657
>>107254693
What does have to do with the package manager problem? Yes, it's going to be the OS's job to install all the relevant drivers and allow programs to load them. But once it does, it's not like installing programs with the system package manager will be any better than downloading random binaries from the internet. In both cases either the OS installed all the drivers properly, or it didn't.
It's not like with random system libraries where different programs can depend on potentially infinite different versions of various libraries and the package manager has to figure out the minimum set of crap to install to satisfy everyone.

>>107254861
>I guess you'd need a library for that
Concession accepted.
>but you wouldn't need to keep updating it.
Retard. How's your bundled library going to work with Nvidia's 6000 series?

>>107254979
We're talking about libs to access Vulkan/DirectX, not to talk straight to the GPU, which it doesn't need to do.

>>107255026
Are you saying you bundle DLLs for both Vulkan and DirectX? Because both of those (or DLLS they load) have to be updated for new GPU generations.

>>107242095
>Just run your own reository
No, go fuck yourself. That is an absurd amount of effort to run software without the Debian foundation's approval.

>>107241529
This 100% fucking this. Repositories are the great satan of home computing. Nothing is worse than them.
>Just use a different repo if you don't like the maintainer
No, i don't like any maintainers. I hate the concept. I shouldn't need a maintainer and a repository on someone else's computer to install software.

>>107254657
DirectX 12 and Vulkan were a mistake. Software shouldn't be given direct access to hardware as non standardized as gpus.

>>107255038
Just don't upgrade from DirectX A to DirectX A+1? How do you think 20 year old games still work?
And regardless, the app doesn't need access to the NVIDIA/AMD/Intel drivers or to even know what drivers you're using.

>>107255038
>have to be updated for new GPU generations
No need to change the app dependencies since the ABI would still be valid.

Scenario 1
>a mentally ill dev releases a binary that only works if it can find libnigger3.5.2 at runtime and load it
>if users try to download a binary, it probably won't work.
>a package manager that knows that the binary needs libnigger can alleviate the situation by acting as a man in the middle and installing libnigger for you
Scenario 2
>a totally reasonable dev releases a binary that only works with OpenGL
>OpenGL was likely already installed when the OS was first installed, or when the OS detected a new graphics card
>the user can download the binary from the developer's website and just double click it
>even if it did pass through a package manager that knows that the binary needs OpenGL 4.x, that would make no difference. If the GPU does support OpenGL 4.x, then the OS would have installed those drivers when the GPU was installed. If it doesn't, the binary will never work no matter what anyone does.
There's nothing in common between these two cases. GPU drivers are not an argument for package managers, central repositories or any of that.

>>107243621
Then how come 0 software is available as ELFs and no distros are built around using ELFs for everything?

>>107246436
Then you're just using git as your package manager, and github as your repository.

>>107255116
Scenario 3
>a reasonable dev releases a binary that depends on libnigger3.5.2 alongside said lib bundled in an installer
>installer places them in the same directory
>a reasonable OS looks for libnigger in the same path where the binary is and finds it
>everything just works

>>107246727
I avoid steam like the plague because of all the asinine package managing it does.

>>107246893
In theory sure, but how much software is actually available that way?

Anon you're over 30, stop playing video games

>>107242683
Yes

>>107242930
What binaries? There aren't any.

>>107241529
This. The best thing about windows is that you can just download some software off the internet and just run it.
>>107242461
>thanks to choco and homebrew
No. Thanks to just double clicking setup.exe

>>107255150
NOOOOOOO you can't do that because...it's...like, LE BAD...uh...you just can't ok??

>>107255150
But what if we are in 1993 and have tiny hard drives?

>>107254802
The OS comes with the .net dependency. If you don't have it then just install the latest service pack. The software should tell you which service pack you need.

>>107255150
You can already do this on loonix. Even better, just statically link it.
The issue is cultural, too many idiots insist that doing in the other way is better. My issue is that to "prove" their "point", they keep bringing up this nonsense about GPU drivers, even if that has nothing to do with it.
(Not necessarily the ones in this thread, maybe they were just dunking on "just statically llink everything" in general)

>>107255104
DirectX is always dynamically linked. You don't know what you're talking about and it shows.
>How do you think 20 year old games still work?
They link to system DirectX dynamically, so those 20 year old game links with 1 year old DirectX to run on ngreedia 5000 series. Those 20 year old games would NOT work if they bundled 20 year old DirectX.
>>107255113
ABI doesn't change, but that dependency still needs to be updated for the new generation and that isn't happening if you bundle it.

Most of the internet runs on Linux. They use enterprise versions of Linux which they pay for. These distros are actually making money from huge corporations, they have no incentive to make easy-to-use software for free users.
This means that you have to keep doing it the hard way because they don’t care, and they especially don’t care about ruining the security of their OS. The more users an OS has, the more malware is created for it.
For example:

https://www.redhat.com/en/store/linux-platforms

>>107255409
>that dependency still needs to be updated
No, it doesn't. The lib in the system might be updated, but the lib in the bundle, that just talks to the lib in the system, does not.

>>107255430
Why would you have a bundled DLL that just links a system DLL? Just link the system DLL directly.

>>107242060
>time for linus to do what he threatened and standardize the userspace apis
Genuine question: Why hasn't he done that already?

>>107255467
The bundled dll has code to find the correct version and the correct location of the system dll to dlopen.

>>107255467
Honestly, good point.
For most libs that the app needs to function, they should be bundled with the app.
But the GPU drivers definitely shouldn't, so if an app depends on Vulkan/DRX and they need to talk to the drivers directly, then maybe they should be installed globally but maintain a solid ABI, or the drivers themselves should have solid ABIs.

>>107241633
Unironically what matter is video games for weebs

>>107255268
>you can just download some software off the internet and just run it.
and get hit with errors on startup because you need an obscure windows update / c++ redistribute

>>107255073
>i hate maintainers
then who was maintain windows?

>>107241529
Isn’t that exactly the reason why Linux might be the next mainstream OS? Normies love getting their ‘Apps’ from the ‘Appstore’

>>107256101
No one. Windows doesn't need package maintainers because it doesn't have a package manager nor any repositories.

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yes
among a billion other reasons of course being the only caveat
sorry linux chuds, maybe when you stop arguing problems arent problems and start providing what people want, you probably will not see adoption. it's over

>>107255220
you can literaly download binaries and run it.
linux supports running dynamic and static binaries.
it is not done for most software because it's foss and it makes sense for it to be distributed through the package manager, but if you as a developer want to distribute your software as a proprietary binary you can.

ie bitwig or plasticity.

When I was using linux 6 years ago, I discovered this
https://github.com/ralismark/nix-appimage
https://github.com/nix-community/nix-bundle
This turns any nixos package into an appimage. You don't have to use this on nixos, any distro works.

>>107256494
What does being foss have to do with software distribution method? Just pack all your free and open source dependencies with the binary. That's how foss apps are distributed on windows

>>107255220
>>107256494
anyway, jonathan says "linus is a control freak about not allowing you to distribute your own software without the package manager" and it's just false, nothing prevents a devloper from letting you download a binary on his website, this isn't a limitation of linux, ergo, he's wrong.

>>107256514
>>107256519
you are missing the point, the package manager is a better way to download shit, i'd not want to have open my web browser and search the place to download random executables every time i want to install something

pacman -S git
or apt install git is much faster and easier, and also this way it's easier to update.

but as i said, it's not a limitation of linux, you can literaly download a binary online and run it... nothing in linux prevents you from doing that.

>>107256494
>it is not done for most software
So there aren't any. It doesn't matter if binaries could exist, all that matters is if they do.

>>107256519
I don't care what Linus does or doesn't allow. The defacto reality of Linux is that you can only get software via package managers and git because those are the only ways anything is actually distributed.

>>107241441
>>107241529
works on my machine
i use NixOS, btw

>>107241529
You can run your own repo retard, it's not hard.

Why would anyone take johnny blow dicks seriously he souljaboy made him cry like a bitch

>>107256571
Yes it fucking is. Just because its doable does not mean it isn't way too much obscure knowledge and effort for what you're trying to accomplish.

>>107256553
that's simply wrong.

1. even if that was the only way things are generaly distributed, again, jonathan's argument is retarded because nothing prevents a developer from distributing it as a binary, which he says is the case.
2. that's also wrong, i can find you a bunch of software that's distributed through binaries.

very often package managers automate the process so you don't have to go find it on websites because it's just nicer, but nothing stops you from downloading it on the website directly.

even foss software very often have binary release either on github release or their website.

i could literaly link you a dozen of foss and non foss project where you can download the software straight from the website.

>>107256582
It's maybe a couple extra steps above hosting a webserver with the package on it.
Don't want to do the distro packaging and repo hosting?
fine. Appimages exist, same as a fucking windows exe, or mac dmg.

People don't want to support the platform, fine say that. But don't make up a bunch of bullshit that there aren't solutions to these problems.

>>107256602
>>107256553
"linux is a control freak about not allowing you to distribute your own software without a package manager".
literaly nothing prevents you to, so even if not many people did it, that makes his statement wrong and your point about most things being distributed through package managers is irrevelant, because jon said that it was the only way it COULD be distributed.

>>107256448
it's literaly false though, he says developers can't just distribute their software without the package manager when it's literaly wrong, you can just ship your binary and let people download it, nothing forces you to go through the package managers.

>>107256627
many people do it. package managers are simply more convenient, so if the option exists, people prefer it. That's it, that's what he's complaining about.

>>107256664
> muh people prefer something that's literaly better in all ways.

also that doesn't mean people wouldn't download binaries, what do you think steam is.
and even outside of steam.

many proprietary software distribute the binaries, ie bitwig studio, plasticity.

it's just that it often ends up being packaged and people prefer to use the package manager.
also "muh middleman" doesn't apply with checksums, deterministic builds or stuff like nixos.

ie for bitwig, if you decide to install it through the aur on arch you can see the pckgbuild and where it's downloaded from, and i don't think reading a pkgbuild takes any more time than searching online.
also web distribution isn't superior, you can have fake lookalike websites, you can have the original website itself being compromised etc...
it is neither a distribution nor a security issue and jonathan's argument is just retarded and based on ignorance

>>107256760
>also "muh middleman" doesn't apply with checksums
yeah it does. they fuck up the build flags and add random patches that should not be added.
>deterministic builds
still mostly science fiction. even if they were real they wouldn't give you any guarantee the chemsums didn't since if you don't trust the maintainers you don't use the distro in the first place.

>>107256542
read the comment op posted and this thread is arguing about
he's arguing linux "doesn't allow distributing one's own software <outside of a distro package repository>", which is patently false. we're not arguing over how common software is distributed outside of a distro's repos, but whether you /can/. the fact some are demonstrates that you can. not everything is available as some form of standalone installer not because they can't be, but because distro repos are just better. standalone installers are for things that can't (like for legal reasons) or don't want to (like because the software is not free of cost) be included in distro repos

>>107256976
> they do this and that
you can literaly see it.
also applies even less to nixos.

> science fiction
literaly not.

also in the case of the AUR you can see where it is pulled from.
and if you don't trust the maintainers well you may as well not use a computer or use gentoo / nixos.

you can't have your cake and eat it, if you use a binary distribution you'll need to trust the maintainers to some extent...
that also applies to windows btw.

i trust a lot more the arch maintainers than microsoft.

and you could always use something like nixos where you do not even need trust because everything is audited and auditable and deterministicly built with checksums to validate it.

if you're worried about middlemen, just install gentoo. it grabs software from their sources and you build them on your own computer. no middleman building stuff for you

>>107257043
nixos or guix also works.
but it has the pros that you don't have to build everything since you can just download cached binaries because they are deterministicaly built systems and if the binary was not what it should be it wouldn't pass the checksum of the build derivation.

>>107256976
> science fiction
what even is nixos/guix.
the WHOLE os is determnisticaly built, you can build the derivation yourself or download cached binaries, you know the binaries are built with the derivation because it matches the checksum.

if you override a derivation to add your own patch you then have to build and can't use the cache obviously.

>>107241529
Hi John

>>107243581
I think linux people never settled on this way because then you don't get automatic updates and on linux you really desperately need constant updates because stuff breaks all the time and 99% of all packages people will ever use are basically from system repos, meaning that it's more like getting windows updates than updating your apps even though technically you just wanted to update your e.g nginx but nginx is now part of the system aka distro repo.

>>107257047
yea, though the whole argument doesn't really make sense. if you don't trust your package maintainers, then you don't trust that os, so why are you running it? like there's not much more to a linux distro than it's packages... that's basically what "distro" means, a distribution of software, they handle the distribution of mostly others' software. you don't have to use a distribution at all if you don't want to, go read LFS.
but-- you're still going to need to trust the hundreds or thousands of devs who contributed to all the individual packages that make up your installation, like there's no avoiding trusting people, even with windows you still have to trust microsoft to handle distribution of all the components of windows for you

>>107257076
>if you don't trust your package maintainers,
nta but that's ultimately what led me to settling with Guix. has the latest tech paradigm i desire (nix model) but also an ideoologically-adherent community that also happens to be more focused on the stability of the official repo. even if you don't 110% buy into their free software approach, it's a highly effective filter.

>>107257068
for most distros there's little to no distinction between "system" and "user" applications, mainly because it's highly customisable. there's no 20GB worth of fixed software in all installs like there is in windows, which most linux users consider a good thing, but it is a different way to do things compared to windows
like as a random example, i have linux installed on an 8GB flash drive, only using 2.5GB of it, but it's not at all limited in what software it can run, because if i go to install something, anything it requires will be installed along with it. or in other words, it's small because it only has what is needed for the stuff that is installed, installed. this isn't even really a minimal install, that's with mate desktop, librewolf, gimp, wine, neverball, office 2007, etc

Install Windows
run .exe
It works
Buy a Mac
run .dmg
It works
Install Linux
???
sudo apt install app
Get a screenful of techno babble logs and prompt asking if you're sure to proceed
Type yes
The system reboots to a black screen

>>107257232 (You)

>>107257232
>>107257248
this is unironically true and happened to me many times if by "app" you mean something like the nvidia drivers or even just doing a system distro upgrade or one time I think I wanted a dfiferent python version but of course that's freaking impossible on Linux, you cant just download an .exe and install the latest python. Nono, you have to compile it from scratch, put it on PATH and then it messes with your distro's system python and gnome desktop won't boot anymore.

>>107241441
>twatter faggot said some faggot shit
get a life

>>107257232
>ignores all the Windows shit making you manually confirm bypassing all security, which you gladly do
>>107257349
>if by "app" you mean something like the nvidia drivers
??? every OS shares this "problem"

>>107241441
No. Very no.

I'll assume his 'MitM attack' would be the repositories? That's a "distribution" level thing, not a "linux" level thing, for a start...

Sure, if they was inserting malware into their complilations there would be a valid claim. Can't say I've seen that yet. But if you can't trust the repositories, what makes you think you can trust the OS built by the same people?

And what if I don't use a repository, and just decide to build the code myself? What stops that, precisely?

>>107241529
>god i fucking hate package management, what a retarded mongoloid fucking idea.
Yeah. I hate being able to keep lots of disparate software up to date with one simple command. What were they possibly thinking.

Being able to 'just install' a vast selection of software without having to build the dependancies to be able to build the software? Who needs that?

>more like blackmailer who decides whether he'll update something or keep it in repo based on how much he needs it and how much you beg,
Evidence of blackmail?
This shit costs time and effort. He can't be bothered with it and you consider that blackmail?
If it's that important why don't *you* do it?
You are aware this isn't the *only* path to get things into your machine? it's just the *easy* path.

Also, what the fuck are you doing begging? What's it like to be so impotent?

>problem with printer in windows
>"printers suck"
>problem with printer in linux
>"linux sucks"
what makes people think like this?

>>107258119
Probably something to do with chromosomes

>>107241441
>Jonathan Blow
Why would a gay pornstar know shit about linux?

>>107246889
actually as Blow said himself the budget for his 3d sokoban game is above 20 millions dollars

>>107241529
the amount of lowbrow fakeconcernedaboutindependanceandprivacy linsissy clit leakage and butthurt generated from one gemmy reality-shattering highbrow trvthNVKE that sent these FREAKS flying is kino

>>107241529
yeah because windows is just so much better where the current status is to give every random exe administration permission because of that culture of "installing" that means copying to system folders and adding a bunch of registry key nobody asked for and impossible to cleanly uninstall even if your "non-middleman"/"non-centralized" repo isn't malware in the first place

>>107257232
skill issue and also you can just download and run a binary on linux as well.
linus being a retard and uninstaling x is kind of his fault.
also even if you don't agree that it's a skill issue, that's an APT issue, not a linux issue, apt is a shitty package manager.

>>107258119
>problem with Windows
>"Windows sucks"
>problem with Linux
>"YOU SUCK"
what makes people think like this?

>>107259078
lol. i only see responses like that in response to people accusing linux of sucking, so it's more "it's not linux that sucks, it's you". or in other words, they complaining about something they aren't using correctly

>>107258119
Honestly it's mostly linux fatigue, it's like tranny or nigger fatigue. You have a white/straight/windows user just be in his own circles and chill doing his own stuff and hobbies, and then some nigger/tranny/linux user appears and tells him how he's wrong for existing and how he's making the world worse and needs to do this and this and make this and that change so that the nigger/tranny/linux user approves of him. It's just virtue signalling and attempts at moral bullying fatigue. No people are not racist for not wanting niggers in their countries or not wanting to date them, no people are not transphobic for not wanting to see troons post pictures of their princess wands or fuck troons, no people are not retarded or low iq or microsoft shills if they want to play a vidya or have hardware and software that doesnt work on linux. You incessantly shilling linux in every single fucking tech forum, imageboard, social media is tiring and anti-linux wave is inevitable especially with how much linux tards like to lie and manipulate. I could literally open any trending yt or reddit or x tech post now that is about windows or xbox or gaming and some fucking retard will inevitably be in the comments to smugly tell everyone how he's a unemployed deadbeat that uses linux and everyone who doesn't is a retard. Sybau

>>107257117
it's not highly customizable, that's the point. Your system python is fixed and you can never upgrade it unless your distro allows it and retest everything on their end. Yet they put that stuff on your PATH as if it's okay for me to use and everything links to it by default. Linux distros are utterly wrongly designed, they are user hostile.

>>107259558
i use gentoo so i can have multiple versions of python installed at once, idk what other distros do

>>107241529
even worse, these "maintainers" are sometimes changing your sourcecode without telling you, swapping out dependencies with other versions and then releasing this altered software as if it's not altered. Then when there are problems the users blame you and hate your software. Of course this has doubtlessly happened so many times at this point that people slowly realized that Linux itself is the problem, not the software.

>>107243664
both are 404

>>107259650
>she doesn't know

>>107255878
Things that never happened. The exceptions are .NET and VC redistributables that are so common that either you have them or you want to get them anyway.
Used to also be directx and the same thing goes for that.

>>107260011
That's right. But you can link the VC library statically, so users don't need to install anything.
You can now package .NET into a single executable for the same purpose. Hell, you can even compile it to binary now.

>>107259692
doesn't know what?
I noticed that the id/hash are longer than usual

>>107260066
not him but they're litterbox links, which means they're temporary. whoever uploaded them didn't set a long enough expiry time

>>107260042
Yes and it should be done