what are the best DACs money can buy? I want something to upgrade my hi-fi system.the market is flooded with cheap DACs from Chinese companies like Topping or SMSL, and everyone is shilling them, but are they actually good?
>>107264997DACs are a solved problem and you don't need to spend more than 100$ to achieve transparency and noise levels way beyond your threshold of hearing. Anything over that you're just paying for extra features, looks or marketing snake oil. So pick the one with the features you like the most from a reputable brand and seller and get over all this audiophile nonsense. I personally use an SMSL DL200 since I also wanted a headphone amp and remote, and this thing is as good as any high end system I've ever heard.Some recommendations:- JDS ODAC- SMSL SU-1, PS200- Topping DX3 Pro+, D50s, E30
>>107264997>I want something to upgrade my hi-fi systemI heard that changing speakers actually makes some difference in sound
>>107264997Unironically, these has been tested and known to beat almost every dac on the market. Look it up.
>>107265070I already own a cheap (30 euros) single-input FiiO DAC that I use to connect my TV to my Arcam A19 integrated amp. Then I use a pair of KEF LS50 speakers.I'm planning to buy a 4k bluray player for black Friday and use that to play my CDs.
>>107264997>what are the best DACs money can buy? I want something to upgrade my hi-fi system.The ones integrated into digital nearfield studio monitors. This is because they are complete systems with matched components to reduce the overall SNR and frequency response and they're sold with less manufacturing margin because they're not a lifestyle product.If you're unsure on what to get Genelecs are the goat, Alesis are the price/quality king.
>>107264997The only right answer
>>107265295don't respond to that guy, he's AI baiting
>>107265070>>107265233too long, didn't readbuying audio-gd thanks
First people screamed that you need a soundcard. Then they screamed that there is no need for a soundcard, built-in is enough. Then it was trendy to buy external audio cards that is used for music and stuff. And now everybody buing DACs.Why there is always some focus on weird trinkets? And those people make fun of real audiofiles with golden wires and wire stands.
>>107264997DACs are a waste of money. Start with a Pass Labs reference amp, then a pair of floor standers with the kind of tonality that you like and only then should you give a shit about the DAC.
>>107264997In terms of a difference made from upgrading, the impact it- when expressing the magnitude roughly as a factor of >, is approximately:Drivers* >>> Amp > DACIf you have some funds on hand and want to frontload your spending towards a big perceived upgrade so you can save towards a nice set of speakers/headphones/IEMs in the future, unfortunately rather than expending on electronics your money would actually be better spent on whatever are the best drivers you can realistically afford (or stretch your budget towards).That answer sucks, and it seems counterintuitive, but it's the reality that you should be allocating basically all of your money towards that (± room treatment for a hi-fi or home theatre system). However if you still want a DAC recommendation, twist my arm, I'll say 'Schiit Yggrassil' but only as a benchmark for "until you've spent several times what that motherfucker costs on speakers you shouldn't worry about a DAC upgrade".
>>107265272Based
>>107265732Amp > DACAint it usually together built into AVRs?
And how do people distinguish DACs? By the time you changed it you already forgot what previous sounded like. Sorta like changing the wood in electric guitars.
It needs to be at least $20.000 and machined from a single block of metal to be acceptable
>>107265903
RME ADI-2 DAC FS
>>107265903A properly built Hypex Nilai amp costs less than 2k.
>>107264997>what are the best DACs money can buy
>>107266312Bigger number is obviously better. But what practically different on poor dac vs excellent?>cheapo behringer audio interface appears twice with different gain settings. >apple dongle moggs entry-level Dennonslol
Apple dong chads won
>>107266462>But what practically different on poor dac vs excellent?Signal to noise ratio, the scale here is in DB and if you notice something it's all higher than the dynamic range of your ears except for the bottom of the barrel ones.So it's placebo quality.As I mentioned before it's insane to use a high quality DAC hooked up to any significant length of cable in a unshielded environment which will act as an antenna and introduce way more noise. (like all HIFI systems do)That's why _professional_ audio uses active speakers where the DAC is integrated into the shielded chassis.Any mid range digital nearfield monitor will beat any HIFI system including ones that cost more than a car.
>>107264997https://rupertneve.com/hifi
>>107264997>but are they actually good?Yes.
>>107266563when are we getting analog fiber headphone cables
>>107265569Because audiophiles have shitty blown out ears and really just want hardware toys to epeen with.
>>107265272It's fine especially for the money but it's no better than a $100 Chinese DAC.There are a lot of devices with a garbage DAC inside and the Apple dongle is better than those but so is pretty much any stand-alone DAC.
>>107264997DACs are mostly a solved problem and it's not that hard to make a DAC that sounds so good that further improvements can only be measured, but not heard.Practically speaking this means you should buy something decent and choose based on what other features the device has. Inputs, outputs, physical controls, displays, remotes, shit like that.
>>107266604No need, there's headphones that hook up directly to usb-c
>>107266563>So it's placebo quality.I tried to switch back and forth from my onkyo av reaciver through hdmi to audent evo 4 through rca. By the time onkyo clicked and change the input I started to forget what it sounded like lol. Everything sounded kinda the same after both volumes are leveled.
>>107266673>Practically speaking this means you should buy something decentDo you even need too though? Everything have a dac built in.
>>107266462I have two bad DAC's: one in my laptop and one in my PC monitor.The one in my laptop (an ASUS gaming laptop) sounds muffled, like someone put a pillow on the speaker. - it's not unpleasant to listen to but it you can't hear all the details like you can with a better DAC.The one in my screen (a 4K 32" Dell Ultrasharp) sounds distorted.That one really is unpleasant to listen to, almost like you're listening via an old fashioned land line telephone though not quite that bad.It's so terrible I suspect there is something wrong with it and if not it's really only suitable for conference calls and such not for playing games or listening to music.All my other DAC's are fine and all sound pretty much the same.In a blind test I wouldn't be able to tell my PC's integrated DAC apart from my Topping DX3 Pro+.
>>107266563>That's why _professional_ audio uses active speakers where the DAC is integrated into the shielded chassis.And yet professional active monitors are all full of balanced analog inputs somehow and professional audio interfaces are all studded with balanced outputs.>>107266744If whatever you have built-in is decent, then you don't unless you're looking for features rather than improved quality.There's still a lot of trash out there, or otherwise mediocre solutions. The built-in audio on my expensive AM5 mobo picks up noise to the point where I can hear it in my headphones, mostly from GPU activity. I don't really "blame" it because the GPU drawing tens of amps over relatively long, unshielded power cables is definitely going to cause a lot of noise, not to mention the regulators for the actual GPU power which have to switch and provide like 400A, much shorter distance but still quite close to the audio.I have a modern, high-end monitor and its audio output (for HDMI devices without their own) is complete dogshit, like among the worst I've ever heard. Signal level is extremely low and it has extreme amounts of noise, it's so bad it's almost unusable.If you're going to be replacing things like these with obvious, audible issues then it's worth buying something better.
>>107266707but that would make them vulnerable to emi still
>>107264997The cheapest one you can find because in a blind test you couldn't tell the difference anyway.
>>107266865>I can hear it in my headphones, mostly from GPU activity. I don't really "blame" it because the GPU drawing tens of amps over relatively long, unshielded power cables is definitely going to cause a lot of noiseOn my Line6 Stomp when you connect a USB for preset adjustments or recording it starts to shit itself with noise. Propably a gound loop. I'm too lazy to figure out what's wrong.
>>107264997Schiit is good and not too expensive. Made in USA better quality than most. I've had FiiO DAC/amp die from ESD after a couple months just outside of warranty but Schiit just chugs along. I got the full mini stack the IEMagni, Modi 3+, Loki Mini+ over 4 years ago now and I like it. No noise, EQ is a nice to have when the Sennheiser headphones aren't fun enough.
>>107264997>>107265295The DACs mentioned already are high quality with great sound and compatibility but ultimately a waste of money as an "upgrade" because they offer limited DSP capabilities which are always needed in a real-world listening environment If I were you I'd get a miniDSP Flex and a Dirac live license so you can do some fancy room correction easilyAlso comes with a good ADC so you can record analog sources easily too >KEF LS50Those would do much better with multiple subwoofers mixed in with active crossover or better yet a DSP for timing >>107265335He's got some excellent speakers alreadyWhat he needs is subwoofers, room correction, and probably room treatment >>107265678Terrible advice Class A is only advantageous for specific kinds of speakers (usually vintage), he can just use cheap class D amps with this KEFs>>107266563>muh cablesPro audio uses tons of cabling and the EMI with properly shielded cables in minimal>Any mid range digital nearfield monitor will beat any HIFI system including ones that cost more than a car.You clearly have no idea what you're talking about
>>107266972>Pro audio uses tons of cabling and the EMI with properly shielded cables in minimalAnd it's zero if the cables carry digital data, my point isn't that it makes much of a difference (it doesn't) but that compared to the noise floor of DACs it's massive no matter the shielding.
>>107266972>If I were you I'd get a miniDSP Flex and a Dirac live license so you can do some fancy room correction easilyIs it worth to try to correct the room with built-in Audyssey MultEQ XT?
>>107264997see >>107265347, but if you don't feel like spending that much money then the JDS labs atom 2 stack is a good alternative
>>107265347i can't do the screen it's too distracting in my dark room
>>107267195Massively negligible but anyway studio monitors are no good for far field listening which is what hifi is for >>107267208Sorry I'm not an expert but I've read elsewhere that people get good results with audysseyThe benefit of the minidsp is you can do whatever you want with it and can get up to 8 channels to do whatever you want withthat can be subwoofers or biamping or whatever Also it's pretty affordable and the DAC is top quality You can even get an all digital version and avoid any cabling issues like the other anon was pointing out (although this is not important if the cabling is relatively short like in a home audio system)
>>107267257>Sorry I'm not an expert but I've read elsewhere that people get good results with audysseyOkay. Thank you anyway. I'll try to do it tomorrow. I think I had a measurement mic somewhere.
>>107267350I think you may not be very impressed with it if you don't have subwoofers. The LS50s have a very neutral sound and good radiation pattern (point source) so they don't need much EQ. If it helps with some early reflections then you may hear benefits. Otherwise, the main downside to the LS50, like any "full range" speaker, is the poor low frequency response due to their placement in the room. I know this because I have a pair myself and tuned them with a pair of subwoofers crossed over at 120 Hz to improve the sound significantly.
>>107267520I have 6.5" fronts and realy cheap hand-me-down 10" sub. I think it also should help match the other channels (front and backs) with my main speakers.
>>107267565Doesn't hurt to try
>>107265335All genelecs active speakers only have an analog input, though? I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.>>107265857Two good DACs should sound exactly the same as a rule of thumb. And there’s measurements that guarantee the transparency of each product. Theres some funky stuff like valve DACs that add some types of distortion that people like, but that is a deeper level of autism.It’s really easy to be transparent with an external DAC, so most people pick one based on things like integrated amplifiers, codec support, IO and whatnot.
>>107267251Can turn it off in menu or in software.
>>107266911Can also vouch for Schiit. I've got a Modi Multibit plugged into an Xduoo TA-66 and a set HD800s for a "budget" audiophile setup that sounds phenomenal.The only problem is I do think I need to RMA the Modi's power supply (it emits a loud buzz when plugged in, but the noise/distortion doesn't extend to Modi's sound output so that hasn't been a priority).
>>107266911>>107268355>what are we going to name this thing?>let's call it Shit>$10 says these broke-dick audio wanks will still buy it
>>107268355consider buying an isobar power strip first
I think any old AVR like Yamaha from 2008 will be better than any 2025 DAC for that price.
>>107265347Based RME enjoyer
>>107268460Unfortunately I can't get those Eaton-Lite ones locally, if you were recommending them specifically, and Australia has 240v mains as well as electrical plugs shaped like / \ rather than | | so it isn't realistic to try importing one either, but there's a well-reviewed brand called Thor locally that sells what I'm assuming is about an equivalent and I did pick up the one they advertise as having the highest level of filtering- and to no avail, sadly. But thanks for the suggestion.
could i have phones and stereo speakers plugged at same time and just change source from software? would solve all my issues
Are they even good to use?
>>107265272I used one of these with a 90s technics receiver.
>>107267600>>107267520>>107267257>>107267195I tried to calibrate my setup with built in in my receiver Audyssey MultEQ XT32 Room Correction. I think it became worse lol. It got read of bass and added to much piercing presence.
>>107272293That's a shame Well, keep trying! Everything I said about DACs still holds: you won't hear any difference because DACs are almost all >85 dB SNR, so get a DAC with flexibility, reliability, and customer support.
>>107264997Any 20$ class D DAC will do the job.
>>107265272i looked it up and they aren't even in the top 40
>>107272758you might not hear it but you can still measure it, and that's the entire point with audiophile schizos. but i'll make it clear: theyt're not doing much measuring. they take things they find published by others and then profess to know all about the subject. it keeps them entertained. despite all these advances in dac technology, where we have chips capable of 96khz/24bit or higher with many channels, some with dsp functionality, and faggots claim>yeah, the dac in playstaion is the best ever made>just is. someone on the internet said soit's weird and makes my penis go soft.
>class D DAC
>>107272941Agreed 100% I myself even appreciate some of the quirks of the audiophile community, vintage gear, and collect vinyl, etc., but the amount of voodoo nonsense out there is insane. Especially these days when most problems have been scientifically explained many times in accessible ways AND measuring equipment is a consumer product. Most of them have more money than sense and a large portion of those with little money also have no sense and waste all their money on random bullshit like DACs with vacuum tubes in them or like you said bizarre vintage equipment like PlayStations for CDs. That being said some of the old PS3s can rip SACDs which is not a common feature.
What are some good and not so expensive dacs I can find on ali?
>>107273001>but the amount of voodoo nonsense out there is insane.it's the only way manufacturers of various linages and sizes have been able to sell this mountain of nonsense to consumers. if consumers knew what the chipsets were - forced to tell you or something- in all of these dacs, you could probably see dozens using the exact same chipset. probably using the same microcontrollers too. from a single glance you could safely see that all of whatever use same chipset and are more or less functionally the same (not including I/O). people would then see why the fuck am i paying hundreds more for a different thing with same chipset.
>>107272293>room correctionyour brain auto-applies room correction to what you hear, for the most part
>>107273243SMLS SU-1, but it's probably on amazon too
>>107265272It doesn't power headphones or low sensitivity IEMs. Overall placebo that sounds ok when you have real gear.
>>107272758I'm not OP. I was just interested why people bought DACs so much. I have Onkyo 818 and Audient EVO 4. Both of wich probably decent enough.>>107273359It's probably also should help with crossover points and timings between different speakers.
>>107272844Name a single dac that can provide the same specs and value and size and convenience as the $10 apple donglePro tip: you can't. So sit down and enjoy your $500 dac you overpaid for lmao
>>107273453Proof? Cause it does.
>>107273294Audiofools are still so stupid theyll pay for a bigger heavier box even if it uses the same chips >>107273359Please don't talk about things you don't understand and confuse the thread Very few people are lucky enough to have a room where they can place their speakers to eliminate all or even most early reflections which your brain cannot and does not filter out Besides the room correction fixes physical deficiencies in your system that cause uneven bass response due to nonideal subwoofer placement And like >>107273604 said there is more to DSP than automatic room correction >>107273604Oh well the reason is because they're sold the idea that there is a significantly perceptible difference between DACs despite the diminishing returns beginning around $20 these days
>>107274132>convenience NTA but the dongle form factor is not durable or convenient and it does not support any resolution above 24/48k
>>107274203And? You can't hear the difference. Anything above that is for archival purposely for remastering in the future. Are you a sound engineer that plans on editing the audio later? Even if you are, it's useless because you don't have the stems.Stop fucking coping, you are embarrassing yourself. Have a convo with any sound engineer or mastering engineer before you inject more snake oil into your penis please. Thanks.
>>107274255Bizarrely aggressive response
>>107274281Post professional evidence or don't reply.
>>107274310Are you okay?I answered your question and you've now gone off on this tirade about professionals that has nothing to do with objective fact that the DAC you were shilling can't play above 24/48. Whether "you can hear it"' or not is immaterial.
>>107274327Ok spend $500 on a dac then.
>>107274347Take a walk and calm down.
>>107274203it's good enough for most shit considering its tiny size. it's impressive. meanwhile back in my day:>yo.. here's a schematic to build an 8-bit r2r dac using a parallel port >frequency, you say? whatever the parallel port can handle, faggot.anything greater than 8bit with near 0 amount noise is pretty amazing. faggot.
>>107274357I took a walk to the apple store and bought a dongle ;)
>>107274132fiio ja11jcally jm6
>>107274372Never said it wasn't >>107274380I have one, too, but your needlessly aggressive posts are simply strange and unhelpful.
>>107274401I used to be in the audiophile community a lot and climbed out of it. My bad, just feeling salty after wasting so much time. But thankfully I always bought used so reselling didn't hurt much.
>>107274419I understand that pain, anon. No worries, maybe your vehement defense of cheap but good DACs will set some ignorant noob straight.
What's everyone's thoughts on Delta Sigma vs. NOS DACs?
