Do any of you play a full 88-key digital piano? Where do you put this thing? They're 51+ inches long and finding a desk to accomodate it is impossible.
Just take the 5.5" pill.
>>107461403There are special stands for those you know...
>>107461403>I TRIED NOTHING AND I'M ALL OUT OF IDEAS.
>>>/mu/
>>107461476>have to put it off to the side of my desk and turn every single time i want to play the piano
>>107461538>have piano plugged into computer for superior piano VST, have to turn your head away from your nice bookshelf speakers, piano sounds like it's coming from your left when you play
>>107461403It doesn't require that much space. If you can't accommodate it still just buy a cheap X-stand. Put keys on it's side when you're done.
>>107461403I have Roland FP-30X and I am using this stand>Fun Generation Universal Stand
>>107461403The future is now
>>107461403Make your own desk? You can make a decent modular frame with aluminum extrusions and 3d printed brackets (or just blind joints if you can thread them). Then Get a half inch butcher block or something similar and apply some coatings like stains and wax or something.I got a CDP-S350 and made my battlestation large enough to accommodate it. I'm currently in the process of converting the entire thing to a standing desk with some actuators.
>>107461403You buy a stand for it you retard
>>107461763but then it isn't in front of the computer anymore
>>107461621>>107461642>>107461763but where do you put it
>>107462008>>107461873If you want it in front of computer you put it in front of computer
>>107462063put it on the desk>now you don't have space for your computer keyboard, mouse, food, et ceteraput it on a stand in front of the desk>now you have to move it into position, plug it into your computer, place foot pedal, plug that into the keyboard, reach over to use keyboard/mouse, and then reverse that and move it out of the way every time you want to use the pianoTHESE ARE NOT SOLUTIONS
>>107462234Put it next to a desk then.
>>107462288see >>107461538 >>107461575
>>107462297get another set of speakers if that bothers youWhy do you need to constantly use a PC when you play a piano?
use headphones
>>107462409well if you get it in front of your computer, you can use a DAW for recording and a VST like Pianoteq or VSL Synchron that will sound better than the built-in sounds, and you can use your computers speakers that will invariably be better than the built-in speakers on the piano. also just like sheet music on your screen or w/e.
>>107462428So put it on a desk or in front of a desk. I don't understand the problem here.
>>107462503you're fucking with me now
>>107461403They are their own stand. I have mine to my left oriented 90 degrees to my desk.>>107461466I need this because I have baby hands (9" pinky to thumb).
My housing officer suggested that my MIDI controllers were clutter the other week. Asked if I'd get rid of them willingly. Never have I felt such contempt rise within me, so swiftly. Acting as if it were my choice to have a bunch of controllers slammed up next to a wall with stands folded and not the consequences of her own actions.Anyway, standing desk, put a stand / controller underneath and move it when you're not using works well. Lotta people use under desk sliders and if you're not poor, you can buy a full on console and LARP that you're a Japanese artist working for a video game studio, to go alongside your electone.
>>107461538>>107461575>>107462008>>107462234>>107462297>>107462538Motherfucker, how dense can you be? You obviously don't want it anywhere except on your computer desk, but you won't put it there because "IT'S TOO SMALL" so the obvious solution is to get a bigger desk.If you can't find or buy a desk big enough, then do what >>107461708 said and make one. It doesn't take a ton of skill to cut and assemble a basic platform on legs together.
>>107461466>piano with 5.5" octave instead of 6.5"Would this make you play better if you have average sized hands? would it be like having bigger hands?
>>107461466>$2,500come on
>>107461466It's the same fucking size as the normal one. they add all of this extra space. fucks sake
>>107462685Keys remain the same size, there's just less of them. Girls with small hands play piano fine.
>>107461403My bussy
>>107462735no, the athena has physically smaller keys. you could get a 61-key but you won't be able to play anything
>>107462759Fuck, I'm stupid
>>107461403>Do any of you play a full 88-key digital piano? Where do you put this thing? They're 51+ inches long and finding a desk to accomodate it is impossible.I just have one for on the side, but I prefer more of a synth or half weighted keybed.Someone is gifting me an 71 key high end synth though....which is even larger...yaaay.Happy nonetheless.
>>107462685YesI pray for the day some reputable company makes a digital piano like this.B major 10ths are JUST out of reach for me on a normal keyboard and it pisses me off.
>>107462813handlets must suffer on pianothere are a bunch of 3/4 sized guitars. strange that i didn't even know these existed for piano until this thread. surely some options must exist
Thinking about buying a Roland FP-30X.
>>107462813I only started playing piano this summer, so maybe this is a dumb question, but is playing tenths really that common? Unless the keys are as slim as my microfreak, I still wouldn't be able to reach that.
>>107462971if you can't play a Cmaj11 with one hand then you may as well quit
>>107462971>>107462995
>>107462971Pretty common for men.White-to-white and black-to-black should be easy.White-to-black and black-to-white are harder than others. I need to use my ring finger for some with black on the bottom because my pinky is short.
>>107462995Dis nigga has 6 fingers.
>>107461403I've got a 62 key keyboard, I store it vertically. Would probably do the same with 88 keys.
>>107463936im not letting my piano touch the ground like that. i don't want the keys to get dirty.
>>107463971If only you could clean the ground and or your keys. Hell mine went years without use and has an octave that went to shit and I just swapped them for like $15
>>107461403Take the osmose pill
>>107461403>digital piano>where do you put this thing?grimDo you live in a phone booth? Digital pianos are very space efficient compared to acoustic pianos, especially grand pianos.
>>107464552they're really long though and it's annoying to fit them anywhere
My initial intention was to set up something like this, but it ended up being too high, extremely uncomfortable to play. So I switched to using it on the original desk. The problem is that it's terrible for music production. Even though my chair rotates, I'm never in the ideal position to play the piano, so I always have to adjust the chair when I leave the computer and go to the piano.Maybe I could use the piano as a keyboard instead of my mechanical keyboard, so I would only have the piano and the mouse on the desk, at the height I want.
>>107464320Take the Linn "yes I can play perfect fifteenths on one hand" pill.
>>107464819that's a huge part of the issue. it seems more and more like you just need to accept that having this kind of ultimate all-in-one setup is just not ergonomicyou have to keep it all separate. piano on a stand and a real piano bench and set that stuff off to the side of the computer desk in its own spot. i've yet to see a setup trying to combine everything that doesn't look awkwardlike you can't have a swiveling chair with a back and arm rests, or a moving keyboard drawer while you're playing a fucking instrument lol. it all has to be solid and stationary and at the right chair height and stand height. there's really no way to fit a keyboard and mouse in there.
>>107462008>>107461403I have a stand like >>107461621and I have it next to my computer chair, like, perpendicular to the desk. So I can just turn to the right with the chair and play the piano.
>>107461403Get one of those height-adjustable standing desks, then slide a keyboard stand underneath. It's not perfect, but it gets the job done.
>>107461403i placed it on top of my wardrobe and left it there for years
>>107461403I just make AI music instead
>>107461403My conspiracy is that with zoomers priced out of homes, they will not have the physical floor space to dedicate to their hobbies (piano, workshop, etc), stunting them into consoomers glued to their phones/vidya
>>107466506Zoomers don't have hobbies that don't resolve around consumption to begin with, because why put in effort?
>>107461403I remapped all my vim keys to a piano keyboard.
>>107466541Then that means its already too late...
>>107466506literally me
>>107465637now you have no space underneath for your legs, your kb/m is raised too high and when your piano is out, your kb/m are also far away now
>>107461403I have one on my desk right now. You don't have a tiny little baby desk do you, anon??Though I have been meaning to build a slide out shelf for it, would improve ergonomics all around, and I wouldn't have to move it when I want to do other shit like have my tablet out lol.
>>107462995Fug I was so close but I just can't reach that high F.
>>107461403I bought a stand and set it up beside my desk, I move my chair over to it and have my Macbook on top of it to the side (Keylab comes with an addon platform for laptops)
>>107468793>here's your setup bro
>>107468858Pretty much, I don't have a deck though sadly.
>>107468858I used to do that but it was with an old clavinova so it had it's own poweerful speakers and was in a nice cabinet. I miss it.Now I've got a Korg D1 used solely as a MIDI controller for Pianoteq run through my monitors so I don't want it off to the side because it would sound shitty.
>>107468952so you have the piano sitting in front of your computer? is pianoteq that much more realistic than on-board sounds?
>>107469019Well the D1 sounds are pretty mediocre, but it's more about feel. Pianoteq is far more responsive to dynamics and shit. Even people that hate the sound of it will give it that. But yeah, it does sound much better than most on board sounds. Their demo version is pretty nice, give it a try and see for yourself.And yes, it's sitting on my desk, I just moved it to the side though so I can eat my cereal lol. Also if I'm playing it I have to lower my desk quite a bit, since the piano is thicc, but I've got an adjustable standing desk so it's not that big of a hassle. I would rather have a slide out drawer though, then I could have the piano at a proper height and have my keyboard and shit on the desk also at a proper height... Might get in the way of my kneesd a bit but not a big deal, I prefer to sit back from my desk anyway.
>>107469124you'll hit your leg once and realize the drawer idea sucks ass
>>107468668>now you have no space underneath for your legsYou get at least as much leg room as a keyboard stand would normally give you. When pushed in, you get a bit more.>your kb/m is raised too highThe ideal computer keyboard height is a little higher than the ideal MIDI keyboard height, so it works out quite well. At least it's not like one of those expensive studio desks. Those things can get ridiculous (pic related).>your kb/m are also far away nowLiterally not a problem unless you have little t-rex arms.
>>107465637*slides around*
>>107469201Yeah ideally I'd have long slides so the shelf could go like 4-5" inches back from the front of the desk, but there's a metal framework in the way so I'd be limited to having it just under the desk.Sadly there's no real perfect solution.... Outside of buying a bigger house and an acoustic grand piano lol.
>>107469381Although I've also though of de-casing my piano and making it as slim as possible... And with a very thin shelf I feel like I should be able to have enough height for my knees while still having the keys at an appropriate height and my keyboard/mouse/tablet also at a reasonable height so I could feasibly use all of the at the same time without raising or lowering the desk.I also have a broken nord piano 3 so I might just take the Fatar key action from that and make my slim controller that way...
>>107466506>>107466541>Zoomers don't have hobbies that don't resolve around consumption to begin with, because why put in effort?Boomers are saying this all the time, but it's unironically not true in my experience. There are tons of talented zoomer artists, musicians, game developers, etc.
>>107469374Stands like that have wheel locks for a reason. But personally, I never use them. Between my own keyboard's heavy weight and the carpet down below, it doesn't move around unless I want it to.
>>107461403I have a stand
found a random image of someones setup. seems good if leg room isn't a problemseems like the adjustable height desk + z stand is the only way people do it without just having the piano off to the side
>>107462576This is what a proper epiano looks like.>>107461403>>107461696>>107465637>>107469358This is not an epiano, this is a keyboard
>>107469553if it's 88 key and weighted, it's a piano. simple as.
>>107461403I wish! I learned playing on a grand piano (but never made the most of it), and now that I want to try again I find that all keyboards are stupid fucking expensive. You think a rtx 5090 costs a lot? You haven't seen prices for pressure sensitive digital keyboards, and you especially haven't seen prices on grand pianos (or even the small pianinos)...>>107465637damn I want one of these so much.
>>107469553That's literally the same thing as the one in the OP but assembled into a big wooden stand. The one in the OP is an electric piano, >>107469358 >>107461696 these are not.
>>107469575i think this is the exact standhttps://www.liquidstands.com/products/adjustable-z-shape-keyboard-stand-with-wheelshttps://a.co/d/4LnlZkZ seems to be the one everybody buys, too. good reviews.
Sorry, my piano only has 76 keys.
>>107469564>if it's 88 key and weighted, it's a pianoWrong. A piano requires extremely solid footing and proper posture, all your retard desk or x stand solutions immediately disqualify it from being one
>>107469575>I learned playing on a grand piano therefore I must buy a grand piano and nothing else *soiface.png*
>>107469746here's some solid footing and proper posture*farts in your face*
>>107469575coming from the guitar, the prices to start playing piano are pretty silly. you need to spend thousands to get something just to emulate what a grand piano feels like
>>107465637Note that this requires a C-frame desk. Otherwise, there won't be enough room to push the keyboard underneath.
>>107469757>>I learned playing on a grand piano therefore I must buy a grand piano and nothing else *soiface.png*Yup, sounds exactly like someone who never touched a Piano in his life.
>>107469789Yeah it's funny coming from piano and learning electric guitar now, like guitars are so fucking cheap and people seem to get mad when a beginner spends more than like $300 on a guitar lol.
>>107462971>is playing tenths really that commonNo. Most pianists simply can't reach it.
>>107469757There's a reason basically every decent digital piano tries to emulate acoustic grand pianos specifically. They are the pinnacle of the instrument. Uprights were just the "digital piano" (cheap alternative when you can't afford the real thing) of their day.
>>107469789Guitar sucks so fucking hard I wish I had learned piano first and just started playing with midis. Jacob collier decided guitar was too hard for him to remember the 4ths and a third matrix note system and made himself a retard proof one instead. Piano is the easiest of easy modes for learning music theory and guitarists all just cope constantly about how they don't need to due to the retarded note system on the instrument. Just buy a weighted key digital piano for like $500-800 or go on facebook marketplace and get an upright piano for a few hundred as some old lady is dying. Real pianos are easy to find used because moving them is so difficult especially for the dying boomer class.
>>107469844Piano isn't even the best instrument on keys. I want funk synths and organ.
>>107469789>you need to spend thousands to get something just to emulate what a grand pianoYou really don't
>>107469844Yes, and a decent digital piano or an upright is perfectly fine for 99% of people.If you're at a level where you absolutely need a grand piano at home because nothing else will cut it, you won't be posting bullshit like that guy.
>>107469873lol I'm a fan of all the keys as well, but the accoustic grand piano's action is the pinnacle of the art, though that might change, some of these MPE keyboards are pretty fucking cool. And of course some aspects of piano are relics of the physics of it, like being graded. I'd be interested to see what the "ideal" keyboard is like, given freedom from the physical restraints of an acoustic instrument.Is something like the Osmose E or whatever it's called, "it"? But also I suppose you need different keybeds for different purposes. Organ technique definitely doesn't benefit from a heavily weighted piano action.
https://youtu.be/fEjqQ17RUIs?si=6plFN9ky5teSI4L0
>>107469915Sure you don't have to have it, but given the option damn near everyone would prefer it. Like you can get by with 8Gb of DDR4 RAM, but wouldn't you ratehr have 64+Gb of faster RAM?
>>107469844yeah but it's not the perfect sound for every mix. sometimes those parlor uprights have a sound that's easier to mix with a very light touch on EQ and compression. having recorded real pianos I can say that it kinda annoys me sometimes when an artist insists on playing the grand and now I have to deal with a ton of unnecessary bass when they just want a cute little piano riff thrown on top of their uninspired white boy funk. and I tell them "the upright would mix better" and they say no and I end up dubbing over it with Alicia's keys anyway because no matter what I do I can't make the grand piano as "stabby". next customer is getting a landlord stab from rave generator and he'll thank me for it>>107469863i never understood all the rivalry. I started on piano, moved to guitar and bass, then got into brass, now I sadly play very little as I'm mostly doing production and mastering. Some things are easier and sound better on guitar, other things are easier and sound better on piano, very little is easier on brass but a good horn riff mixes very well into damn near anything. Obviously arranging a whole song is easier on piano, but I get a lot of inspiration from, say, taking midi and improvising on guitar and coming up with different voicings or substituting chords
>>107469935>given the option damn near everyone would prefer itGrand pianos are huge, loud, they have to be maintained, and you can't use them as MIDI keyboards. There's a reason why people have constantly been trying to make them more compact over the centuries.
>>107469968>yeah but it's not the perfect sound for every miI meant the key action, yeah the sound for sure isn't always right. I use smaller pianos in pianoteq a lot because a big ass concert grand just sounds wrong to be practicing in a little room in my house lol.
>>107469968>tfw looking for piano cover of a song>the virgin professional: played with absolute perfection on a grand piano, recorded on professional equipment, sounds sterile, might as well be a midi played through a good VST>the chad amateur: played on an upright piano at home, played well but with some inaccuracies, recorded on a phone, uploaded in 2013, sounds real and fun, absolute sovl
coming from guitar, the piano is like a joke. my respect for pianists has plummeted. it's like a toy.
>>107469891probably has a really short key lever that doesn't feel like the real thing and gives less control. simple as.
>>107470124Cope and seethe keyboardfag, it follows the graded hammer standard where the impact depends on where on the scale you are, like on a real piano. If you really really badly want the grand piano feel (unless you're classically trained with several YOE you won't be able to tell), there's this with an elongated key lever like on a real grand.
>>107470339>graded hammer standard where the impact depends on where on the scale you are, like on a real pianoThat's standard on digital pianos, but on acoustic pianos it works differently. On digital pianos, the keys get lighter toward high notes gradually, but on an acoustic piano, there are zones of keys, and the zones get lighter, not the keys themselves. So C4 and C6 are the same weight on an acoustic but slightly different on a digital (you don't actually feel it though, that's the point).It isn't a shortcoming though. I prefer the way it's done on digital pianos.
>>107470477I mean c4 and c5, fuck knows where the regions are actually
>>107470477>on an acoustic piano, there are zones of keys, and the zones get lighter, not the keys themselves. So C4 and C6 are the same weight on an acousticLiterally wrong and you've never played a real piano lmfao. You just mixed up acoustic pianos with digital ones, it's shitty digital ones that have zones. Or you're even more retarded and are confusing strings with hammers
>>107469443Compared to previous generations? You really think so?
>>107470827Just watch the annul Chopin competition, boomer. In fact, more zoomers can play piano on a professional level than any boomers could
>>107470339it's pretty easy to tell because the key will be easy to press anywhere on the key, not just on the end of it. on the short lever ones, it will feel harder to press at the "top" of the key because you're basically pressing right next to the fulcrum. you get more torque the further away you are from the fulcrum.
>>107470827Nobody said "compared to previous generations."But yeah, I really do think so.
>>107464822Yes linnstrument is awesome too. Osmose is perfect for keys players though. Too bad linnstrument price gone up due to tariffs.
>>107461403Do you really use all 88 keys?
After switching to a left handed piano, I can't go back. Crazy how pianists just accept using their crappier hand for the important melody stuff.
>>107461403Best thing to do is to put it on retractable rails under your desk. Just pull it out and bang
>>107471107Yes
>>107471148>melody>importantrhythm is more important than melody
>>107469968>Some things are easier and sound better on guitarIt's that piano makes theory visually obvious especially on things like there is no b#. Visually you can see the distances between a 3rd or 5th or 7th and it makes theory utterly and completely obvious. The guitars 4ths and a 3rd tuning and matrix note system is wgy 80% of guitarists know zero theory
>>107471228You sound hella retarded. You can see those distances just fine on guitar, one string being a major third doesn't make things significantly different.
>>107471148>After switching to a left handed piano, I can't go back. Crazy how pianists just accept using their crappier hand for the important melody stuff.lmao skill issuehttps://youtu.be/7VWHBHeNrg4
>>107471148this sounds real but i am withholding my belief>>107471228yeah, it's so simple that it's ridiculous.pic related is basically the whole instrument. lol. lmao. now just learn basic music theory.
>>107471275compared to guitarlol have fun
>>107470339Yamaha GHS is a shit tier key action lol. You don't even know what you're talking about. The graded part isn't what's important, at all.
>>107471259It's still less obvious than piano. On guitar if you go alone a single string, sure it's just as obvious almost, but going across strings complicates things, and that they overlap complicates things. There is no overlap on a piano, it's purely linear. Like everything is just blatantly laid out in front of you with no ambiguity on a piano.
>>107471517Post an e piano with better one then
>>107470765not him and I don't know wtf an acoustic piano is, but on a real piano the keys indeed get lighter the higher up you go.
>>107471259there is literally no easy to spot pattern in >>107471368
>>107471598>but on a real piano the keys indeed get lighter the higher up you goSo you agree with me then. The retard said this:>on an acoustic piano, there are zones of keys, and the zones get lighter, not the keys themselves. So C4 and C6 are the same weight on an acoustic
>>107471615That every fret is a half step is pretty obvious, granted you still need to remember where you are.
>>107471643there's 2 reason why it's WAY harder than the pianofor one, the whole notes and sharps look the same. on piano they're separated and blatanly obvious.and two, you have to memorize 6 different lines. on the piano it's just one line repeating 7 times.
>>107471368Guitar is still simple as fuck, wait till you see an accordion
>>107471563>There is no overlap on a piano, it's purely linear. Like everything is just blatantly laid out in front of you with no ambiguity on a piano.If you move up a string, you go up a fourth. If you're moving from the 2nd to third string, you're instead moving up a third, so you can see the fret board like 2 separate boxes of fourths.
>>107461403>Where do you put this thing?In my piano room, where I keep my piano.This is a yuropoor question like seriously wtf most all of us have an extra room for a piano
>>107471634again, I don't know what's an acoustic piano, I only played on grand pianos in music school and that was 30+ years ago. But I remember how it felt very well. The fact that deeper sounds require more strength was one of the most instinctive lessons they were teaching. instinctive in that when you played, it was immediately obvious that lower keys required much more strength to press and sounded more powerful, and higher keys could be pressed much easier and therefore needed less strength and had to be played light as a feather.plus, you know, a gentle light song played on the high notes versus a thundering bass that would make Beethoven feel the sound in his bones.
>>107471566Yamaha P525, or any of their older ones with GH which is a good step up from GHS, any of the Rolands, PHA-IV even but of course the PHA-50 is even better, most of the Kawai actions, Korg's RH3, etc.Really, the harder question is to name a worse weighted hammer action, Casio's I guess? Or the Alesis or Williams Orchestra or whatever shit tier ones.
>>107471790And also any of Yamaha's other higher end actions, GHS is literally their bottom tier weighted action.
I don't understand the question. I don't live like a bug in a box. It's just in my living room...
>>107471790Guess I haven't been up to date enough, you're right Then it seems like you should go for the >>107470339
>>107471829that uses GHC which is actually kind of worse than GHS
>>107471851oh shit nvm that one uses grandtouch-S. idk if that's good
>>107471892It's not a hybrid so it's probably ass.
>>107471259There are there are 12 notes and 72 note locations to learn before the pattern repeats on guitar. In these positions (up to the 12th fret) there are 50 positions with the same pitch note in another position. On piano there are 12 notes and then it repeats. There are zero exact pitch repetitions. Piano is easy mode. Everyone should start on piano. Shit like a C shape chord barred at the 2nd fret is just a D is why most guitarists know absolutely no theory and get stuck after power chords, common open chords, and the pentatonic. It's a dogshit instrument to learn on and I would always reccomend learning keys first for ~two years. Plus keys can actually compose on every instrument with modern daws while guitar has a shitty narrow little range.
>>107471680It's weird when people look at the string count upside down like this instead of low to high and left to right. I always think of it a E is 1, A is 2, D is 3, etc. Same as when people refer to the high e as the bottom string because it is nearest to the ground when bottom to me would mean lowest pitch
>>107471820based
>>107472033yeah this shit bothers me a lot
>>107471678It's cool that they are arranged in a sensible way though.
>>107471678All ai have to do is push a button and it plays a chord?
>>107471965You're retarded. Pitch repetition makes it EASIER, not harder. Guitar is partially isomorphic, so you can move scales and chords mostly around trivially.Guitar has 12 notes and then it repeats, they're just shifted over on subsequent strings. Crying about modern guitarists being lazy and incapable of reading sheet music is like saying piano is shit because people use it to make pop music.
>>107472264Pitch repetition does not make it easier unless you're talking about transpositional cheezing via a cappo. That is literally the only thing easier on guitar but it has nothing to do with pitch repetition. I tried to make that clear to you but obviously wasn't clear enough. It's the pitch repetition that makes the skill floor far more challenging on top of being mechanically more difficult.
>>107461403How is OP being a sissy that can't fit an 51"er related to tech?
>>107472313Protip: you can digitally transpose the white keys to any other key these days and never have to learn anything more than C/Am on piano
>>107472347This is taylor swift and I approve this message
>>107461403>no keypadI hate zoomers and their meme keyboards so much it's unreal.
>>107472448Say no more.
>>107472347i don't play piano but isn't literally everything played exactly the same all over the piano?the whole thing that sucks about guitar is that basically everything is different. every chord is a new shape in different places on the fretboard. changing strings changes where the notes are when you're playing single notes. it's ridiculous. there's seemingly no pattern.
>>107473343>isn't literally everything played exactly the same all over the piano?Not sure what you mean, but not really. If you change the key, all the chord shapes change. If you're in C and you play a C chord, it's a completely different shape than playing the 1 chord in C# major. There is no simple way to transpose things (without using the transpose button). I think on guitar you can at least use a capo and maybe some tricks but that's just what I heard, I don't play guitar.
>>107473565i'm realizing i don't know anything about music theory
>>107473689It has nothing to do with music theory, just with spacing aspects of the keyboard.A chord like C-F-A feels very different to its transposed version F#-B-D# and might even have different fingering depending on the context. This is because the distance of the keys B and D# is greater than F and A.
>>107473343Yes and no, on piano you have to relearn the scale in every key. While it follows obviously the same pattern and visibly you can figure it out, mechanically it makes learning them all harder. On guitar the 'shape' you play stays the same just moved up and down to another position. On piano when learning scales and the chords to use in the circle of fifths you would usually just add in one black key at a time as you learn each one. On guitar you would just learn one and then move the pattern to another root position you know and play it mechanically the same. I hope that makes sense to you.
>>107473689Nah you're basically right and transposing a keyboard is a stupid gimmick/crutch for tards. Chord shapes are nearly the same, it's only the slight variation of whether there are black or white keys, but since the keyboard is so linear it's dead obvious anyway, and inversions and shit too, you literally just move the lowest note to the top lol.To say a C major triad is a vastly different shape than a C# major triad is absurd. It's literally just the same exact shape shifted over one key.
>>107474070Also you can just do this like a cappo for changing keys >>107472347On piano, the white keys are all in C and follow the major scale, C D E F G A B. So learning that means you only play the white keys. But playing in G means you add the F# which is a black key, GABCDEF#. Playing this is almost the same but with the F being F#. Then you go to D and do the same thing and add another black key, the C#. You know how chords are named and how they work in the circle of fifths but mechanically you can't just play them the same physically. On guitar you just move your root position and play the exact same chord shapes or scale patterns and it feels the same.
>>107469763Rude.
>>107474901He's right DOE
>>107470862>more zoomers can play piano on a professional level than any boomers could>source : it came to me in a dream
>>107474952Source: common sense, retard. Classical music on a professional level has made a comeback while boomers mostly cared about all the trendy new directions like rock and pop. Also a lot of recently poverty escaped countries care about piano skills a lot, like china. So the numbers are purely on the zoomers side
Got a DGX 670 in the corner of my office. Want something a bit more portable though to play for family events.
>>107461403Get a bigger room by whatever means necessary, OP
>>107472482That's better.
>>107461403A hardcase or a stand will do. Desks made for them are outrageously priced. Probably better off doing a DIY upgrade with a long enough tray installed on the underside of a desk. Picrel is an example of a decent looking one, needs to be a large tabletop for it to work.
>>107461403I use one of these: IKEA BESTA (without doors, wall mounted) and I glued some nice cork sheet on top of it. Feels and looks decent, has space for some of my other musical gear. But I stand in front of the piano, for sitting it gets in the way of my knees (also I mounted it too high for that)
>>107461696much more serious product: https://us.carryonplaying.com/pages/midi-controller>>107461538life's about priorities. You "don't have the space" because you care about other using space for other more things more than using it for music. Just be honest with yourself.
>>107471107I need more than 88 keys. Fucking Ravel wrote a low G# in Une Barque sur L'ocean. That mother fucker.
>>107474901don't be so hung up about it, fart face.
>>107475352Guess you gotta get the Bosendorfer Imperial, there's literally no other option.I mean you could also get an organ with multiple manuals or have multiple DPs or MIDI controllers transposed to suit, but really I think the Bosendorfer is clearly your best bet.
>>107473565>If you're in C and you play a C chord, it's a completely different shape than playing the 1 chord in C# majorThere's no way this is true.
>>107473565>>107477360Its not true. Each chord is essentially the "same shape" you just change your hand placement. Though, there are minor differences in finger placements given the specific mix of white and black keys. Also as far as transposition, there is an easy way to do some keys like D/Db, you can just read it in either key. However, you have to remember to alter accidentals accordingly. There are other tricks to transpose keys but those get more complicated and require quite a bit of practice.
>>107477360He means the physical shape and subtle adjustments to where the fingers go in space.C major is white-white-white. C# major is black-white-black.On guitar chords are the exact same shape (minus subtle differences in fret width depending on where you play them on the neck, but that's much less of a change than the vertical + out-of-plane offset that occurs with piano keys)
What is a good digital piano for a beginner who has never played piano? I don’t want to spend too much because who knows if I will stick with it? But I will spend enough that I don’t get piece of garbage.
>>107478044Yamaha stuff is solid, something like the P-45 would be a good place to start. Or if you can find a good used older model you could get a slightly higher model like the P-125
>>107461403I just put it on a stand, and the stand can go wherever there is plugging in the houseRight now in my square room, the desk is on the first side, my bed on the second side, the door on the third side, and the piano on the fourth side
>>107478044Buy used. Really anything with cheap velocity sensing and full sized keys will work for starting out. Yamaha makes good 61 key models for beginners. >>107477425IMHO the biggest reason that guitarists don't understand music theory is that they learn chords not notes. I didn't really understand guitar notes until I picked up the bass.
>>107477425>Each chord is essentially the "same shape"They aren't. Finger placement changes for every chord in most positions, like how piano players have to learn individual major scales for each key.
>>107478249No it doesnt, the same position for a C major triad will work for all major triads with almost no change in finger position. Now, that isnt necessarily an efficient way to play, and changing finger position is often done to facilitate moving between different chords. Similarly, you can apply the same finger pattern to all scales, though again that is not always efficient for movement. Thus, there are different patterns for individual keys.
I want to learn piano to play touhou arranges
>>107461403>Where do you put this thing? They're 51+ inches longIn my fucking ass.
>>107461403I had one in my studio (literal like full size williams) sold it earlier this year because I wanted the space back. While its easy to have all 88 keys for production I found it not worth it after a few years. Looking into maybe a mid size that is thin and lightweight for my desk though.
>>107475999Now that kind of attitude doesn't help at all.
>>107478542There is no way a 51 inches digital piano can physically fit inside a human rectum.OP, do NOT attempt to insert your keyboard inside your anus, you WILL hurt yourself.
>>107478295>No it doesnt, the same position for a C major triad will work for all major triads with almost no change in finger positionIt literally won't doe?It only works in the C major key (where only B is different).If you're in another key, the chord shapes are different.
>>107479442>underestimating what gay men are capable of
>>107479514you play a major triad with 1,3,5(in this example) regardless of the root note. That is the same shape. You can play major triads chromatically without moving your fingers other than shifting going between white and black keys. You keep the same "shape" playing all the same chords. The chords dont change, and neither do the basic finger potions to play them. Major, Minor, inversions etc...they are made up of a series of whole steps and half steps. A major chord is the same whole steps and half steps always, it doesnt matter what the root note it is, the make up is same thus the "shape" is the same.
>>107479600By shape I mean the actual shape your hand takes. Obviously the number of half steps are the same, but the muscle memory for them doesn't fully transfer (as opposed to power chords, which almost always use the same hand shape).
>>107479692You arent getting it. The shape your hand makes to play a major triad(with 1,3,5) does not move regardless of which major triad you are playing. You only need to shift slightly when the root moves to/from a white or black key. Even then, you move your whole hand but keep the same shape. As you learn piano, you do specific exercises of playing various triads while keeping the same hand shape
>>107479732They still look totally different in every key with the black keys. Anyway I'm pretty sure you get my point but are being pedantic.
I'm trying to learn the piano by myself these days.Physically, how do I perform this?
>>107479756Im not being pedantic. I am a professional accompanist. An F major triad is identical to a Ca major triad, just look at the piano keys. Db major is also the same just altered for the black keys. Get a ruler out and measure the distance, it doenst change because the keys are all a standard size. Again as you learn piano, you literally practice play various chords while keep your hand in the exact same shape as you move it around.>>107479765You can hit middle C and D with your left thumb. But you have to roll your right hand to get from G to the high C. That will probably not give you the desired result though, so you either need to move the C down and octave or the G up and octave.
>>107479765You don't need to play every note on the page. The music score being "sacred" is a byproduct of Romantic (((composers))), while in previous times musicians pretty much did whatever they want to a piece when they performed it.
>>107479765Seeing as how you didn't include the clefs I'm inclined to tell you that I don't know like an asshole , but most likely you stretch your pinky.
>>107479765foot pedals
>>107461403any piano anon can tell me if its worth buying a digital one if I want to self learn? Wondering if I should try a piano or violin first. violin seems cheaper to get but have no clue about music.
>>107480877digital is fine starting out. Unless you are 8 or less I would start on piano. Violin is quite difficult to learn as an adult, but not impossible. Having an basic understanding of music and playing an instrument will make the working on the other parts of playing violin easier.
>>107480877Yes, absolutely. A digital piano is the best choice.Start with the piano. It's a lot more versatile and easier to learn, especially on your own.
>>107479756Here's a trick, instead of playing down near the ends of the keys, play higher up near the fall board. Now they're all the same exact shape. Amazing.
>>107479765Octave+D in left hand, G and treble C in right. You can hit an eleventh, right?
Best thread on /g/ right now.
>>107462538
>>107482810what's your problem, never see a tall man before? it's rude to stare.
>>107462971One of my favorite pianists mentioned that she can't play a 10th so I figure don't sweat it.
>>107472033That's the correct way to do it. Pitch matters more than the physical location.
>>107478214As the bass player in my band, I can confirm that I am by far the most music theory literate. Those guitar bastards just play random chords and shit and I'm that has to figure out what key that is and what notes on the scales are all valid to play and so on.
>>107478379>I want to learn piano to play touhou arrangesYou should do something simpler first, like going through the Jordan Rudess piano lessons.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b9j5BS3KME
>>107483421Who?
>>107479765Use two hands.
>>107479765Try two hands and a foot.
Are weighted keys absolutely necessary? It'd be cool to be able to play any acoustic piano you come across. But right now my immediate aims are to fuck around with midi/software synths and get better at theory/composition.
>>107483834Hiromi. I love her albums. They're always great.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rxYw7Y45Eo
>>107462008On your girlfriend's thicc bent over ass.
>>107480950Piano seems like it would be way harder than violin?
>>107483913No.
>>107483861They're necessary if you want to play actual piano repertoire, but not if you're into synths.
>>107461403With those analog keyboards coming out what's stopping a normal keyboard from driving a sythesizer to the same effect through software? Muscle memory aside, I imagine a configuration of the keyboard (presuming orthoganal) could be comprable or superior in ease for playing due to being able to have more options vertically
>>107483913exactly the opposite lol. It's way easier to started on piano. Of course, the top of the literature for both instruments is hard as fuck
>>107469575Same here. I would have thought a two-octave MIDI keyboard would be far cheaper.
>>107462971It's not that common in a lot of music, but 10ths create such nice voicings it's frustrating if you're not able to play them all cleanly, especially for things like jazz ballads where they're going to be used more often. Smaller keys just aren't about reach though. It makes everything easier because you're not stretching and straining your hands as much. From what I understand key sizes were standardized when men with larger hands were the dominant pianists, so if you're playing piano, the keys you're using were really meant for people with those sized hands.
>>107484056Nothing, and there are a few instruments using hall effect or more basic velocity and pressure detection methods. There hasn't been any real long term study into alternative layouts, though. People play piano because everyone plays piano, why learn a grid system if you can't use it anywhere else? The majority of grid layouts I've seen seem to be using an all fourths layout, which is pretty terrible. The problem a grid layout is that it's hard to tell where you are without reference, the jury is still out on whether the extended range is worth the complexity of playing, you've got a far narrower range per key.
>>107461403I have this rock band piano I got from goodwill for like $8, it seems really cool and I really want to learn how to play piano.
>>107479765I want more context.>>107479804>Get a ruler out and measure the distance,Intervals are not all equal on a computer, shit nut. An obvious example is a C major 10th is the same stretch as an A minor 10, but an A major 10th is a larger stretch.Professional accompanist my ass.
>>107485946>on a computer,lmfao. What the fuck. I swear to god I typed 'keyboard.'
>>107461403You buy the base for it
>>107484635Leave the guy alone. It's clear that the 5th is largest interval he knows.
What are the best resources for self learning piano?
>>107487627It's not really possible to learn something effectively by yourself. You'll develop bad habits that will stall your progress forever, or waste a lot of time on stupid stuff that doesn't matter.
>>107462971I'm a semi-pro classical pianist who's been playing for over 20 years and I can't play tenths.
>>107487787What the fuck. So the thousands of self taught musicians out there that play at a very high level are just an illusion? Beginners just need to make sure they use a good technique so they don't literally injure themselves. There's a gazillion of online resources on this, so it's not like hidden knowledge. After that, literally just practice whatever the fuck you want so you can play the music you want. What might be stupid to you might be important to someone else. e.g. I'm exclusively a fingerstyle bass player that plays metal so I learned how to play stupidly fast 16th notes. This is probably useless technique for 90+% of bass players out there, but for me it was important.
>>107487816i started to play an online piano with my computer keyboard a few days ago and frankly piano feels really easy. you just play in Cmaj and everything is on the white keys, and from what I can tell you just play C EFG BC EFG BC EFG, like those notes in random pretty sounding patterns and it sounds good, not literally that but kind of
>>107487835>So the thousands of self taught musicians out there that play at a very high level are just an illusionYes. They're lying and had a teacher, or they aren't as good as you think they are. The difference between a good amateur playing in their bedroom/local bar and a legitimate pro instrumentalist playing a concert hall is massive. the average pro classical guitarist is like 100x better than the best amateur guitarists, for real. The gap is huge. Pros will make you look like a child.
>>107462576>KawaiPatrician choice for electronic piano. No other e-piano manufacturer can match the keyboard feel.
>>107487917All that "professional" means is that you get paid. Guys that play shitty wedding cover gigs are pro. There's a lot of factors that go into what makes someone a good musician, but the most important factor is literally just practice. This requires no teacher or any special resource. All it requires is for the person to grab their instrument and work on something. Obviously we could have discussions on what the most effective way to practice is and so on, but that's not relevant. The classical guitarist vs amateur guitarist hypothetical is pretty disingenuous given that classical guitar is a specific style/genre with completely different technique than most popular genres that feature guitar. But also one can simply be a self-taught classical guitarist.
>>107487977you're just talking out of your ass. you can't see mistakes and bad habits you're developing that you're making when you're a beginner.
>>107488009Why are you treating it like it's cult knowledge? On most instruments, technique is a solved problem. We know what works and what doesn't. As a beginner, you can simply look this shit up. It's not a secret. You can record yourself playing as well to make sure you aren't doing anything horrible. A teacher is not some magic resource. He will point you in the right direction and provide guidance but any reasonably intelligent person is totally capable of making those decisions themselves.
>>107488026Not him, but there are subtle things that are likely to be missed. People with teachers can have bad technique too...
>>107487816Any of them, or just the big ones like B major and E major?I can't reach those and it makes me depressed as hell when trying to play some Szymanowski.
>>107488026You greatly overestimate a persons ability to do that effectively. It's really that simple. A teacher will keep you on track and spot any bad habit forming, and they'll do it instantly, over and over again. That's extremely important. You don't get second chances. Once a bad habit is formed, you basically fucked yourself, and that is bound to occur when trying to figure things out by yourself.
>>107488080For reference:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmkiFTW1E2I~0:25 this dude rolls them and it sounds terrible. Like it's pushing too hard to go forward.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVUsMGKjO9M~0:42 this guy plays the bass note first, which is a bit betterhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onwtmeP-nNY~0:32 this guy rolls the first and plays the following Bb chord solid, which is what I do, but it pains me.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUTvxP-8etg~0:27 this guy plays them both solid, I think. This is how I wish I could play it. It sounds like the high D natural in the left hand comes in a little late... which is weird because the Cb chord that I circled is the bigger stretch and the following Bb shouldn't be a problem.
88 just doesn't fit. I am content with 49 generally.
>>107488083>t. crab bucket managerThis is absolutely retarded. You get good by learning and practicing. Tons of people learned instruments on their own. Having a teacher is great, and you should take advantage of it if you can, but it's not like it's absolutely necessary.Discouraging people from trying and getting better on their own is more harmful than any bad habit they might form.>bound to occur when trying to figure things out by yourselfThere are lots of videos and written tutorials for piano technique online. You should consult them when you start out.But again, not doing it at all is still worse than just doing it yourself.
>>107488026For classical he's right specifically with the right hand. Self taught will cause fingerpicking like chet atkins or wes montgomery or ted greene. Not that that really matters for anything outside of classical guitar as all of those players are insanely good with a very distinct sound because of it. But if you're looking for perfect right hand technique specifically with classical then I would agree with him that you want a teacher to beat it into you.
>>107461403>Do any of you play a full 88-key digital piano?No, I don't like the "true" piano action on 88-key digital pianos, it feels unnatural on a digital instrument. t. S90ES and MOTIF XF6 owner, I much prefer the XF6's action
>>107487787This might be one of the dumbest comments I have ever read on this website in 20 years.
>>107488026Not really. I thought I could play guitar but when I started taking lessons I was completely blown away by how much I didn't know. I'm not saying everyone is as dumb as me, but guitar especially has some serious nuance! under the hood.
>>107491208It's true, not everyone is as dumb as you.
>>107491208Did he teach you basic music theory or what, that's like the firat 5 pages of chord chemistry
>>107491435I don't know if they still do music classes in elementary like grade 2 or whatever but if they do they should really infer ACEGBDF on the kids and show them a piano instead of recorders. It would help so many people in their teens when they start learning. My school didn't offer music theory until high school and it's crazy how helpful just the first few lessons are for musicians.
>>107491460This is why I tell everyone to start on piano. It completely demystifies music theory and makes it completely obvious and visual. It's just so fucking easy on piano
>>107491656Yeah if you take the time to learn key position and just understand chord spacing at it's most basic you can have a lot of fun on a piano. t. someone who can't play a piano properly but uses one in production all the time
>>107490542>>107491019You're too arrogant to see that you're wrong.
>>107491910No I'm not lmao. I'm literally a professional.
>>107488083>a bad habit is formed, you basically fucked yourselfYou can fix and change your technique. It's not some ultimate damning thing. I've literally done it myself. Big deal it feels weird for a while but it's literally just practice.>>107490602That's horseshit. If you want to learn the correct classical fingerpicking style, just pick up one of the hundreds of resources on it and learn specifically that.
>>107461403I have a trundle under my bed that I use to store it
>>107491953This doesn't happen in real life. It happens in movie montages and it happens in peoples minds but it's not a real thing.
>>107491953>That's horseshit. If you want to learn the correct classical fingerpicking style, just pick up one of the hundreds of resources on it and learn specifically that.It's too late for me. I already pick with only my thumb, pointer, middle and ring with my pinky planted like chet atkins. I've been doing this for years.
>>107491435With him I learned drop2 chords with 7th cords and their inversions, how to build chord melodies, extensions, altered tensions, modal harmony, voice leading...>>107491338I'm probably a better musician than you, but whatever
>>107492023>self learning doesn't happen in real lifeare you just trolling me>>107492039It's not "too late". You're just unwilling to step out of your comfort zone (justified or not). I don't play guitar so it's not exactly the same but I added my thumb and ring finger to my playing after getting used to the standard two finger plucking style.
Pretty much every famous guitarist who is a household name in a legendary band that created other famous guitarists and bands is self taught. Some may have had music training on other instruments or whatever but that's irrelevant to guitar, especially electric.My personal favorite is Chuck Schuldinger. Dude just figured out intricate scales and shit on his own and mastered them writing beautiful melodies and pieces. People like James Hetfield and Dave Mustaine learned by ear and self taught things from books and stuff. Some were like Van Halen or Alexi Laiho who learned another instrument first but then mastered and dominated the guitar themselves.Even someone like Petrucci didn't get training until college and could shred beforehand because he practiced 6+ hours every day. All you need to do to master an instrument is practice literally as much as possible and listen to as many different types of players as possible and trying to emulate and match them perfectly.
>>107492094What the fuck is "self learning"? Did you manifest the knowledge out of thin air? No, you didn't. You downloaded a PDF or watched a video, and were taught by some guys pre-made lesson.
>>107492128Ok so now we've degenerated into a pointless semantic argument about what "self learning" means. Non-autistic people understand this to simply mean that the person directs their own education/training on a certain subject and doesn't have formal instruction.
>>107492092>I'm probably a better musician than you, but whateverAn arbitrary argument. How does one even measure such a thing that is essentially opinion? Success? Ability? Popularity? Range? Age? Instruments mastered? Pieces written? Records sold? Shows played?It's pointless dick waving. There's nothing wrong with formal lessons or a teacher, but to sit there and tell people you can't learn on your own and that's not possible is just literally untrue and outright dumb. Self taught =/= not using known information and methods. There's literally no difference in a teacher saying "practice this scale for 1 hour every day" and you just practicing that scale on your own for 1 hour every day without someone telling you lmao. We live in a time where access to information is open and available to anyone and everywhere almost. No offense if you're a person who requires outside help to understand something but it's not necessary for everyone, and eventually at a certain point if you get far enough into a field there is no more teaching, only discovering.
>>107492097My brother in christ, 90% of guitarists do not know basic music theory
>>107492191I know. It's just a term that I find really really stupid. It makes no sense. You are learning from a resource made by someone. You are being taught.
>>107492209Almost like it's not necessary to create or play music.
>>107492191>>107492222I mean, not everything that is self taught is through a resource, in fact, that's more of a modern convenience than anything else that young people probably can't differentiate. When I was a kid I had to hit play/stop/rewind on a tape to keep practicing. I didn't have 4000 million different types of metronomes built into a device in my pocket. There was no youtube and books or other resources were rare or were unaffordable. Tuning was harder, instruments were more scarce etc. etc.
>>107492203Dude his teacher is widening his horizons beyond what would be picked up naturally. You don't know what you don't know and you won't learn what you haven't heard. You also would listen to ted greenes solo guitar and think this is an insurmountable mountain. If he has learned what he says he has that's already beyond what a normal intermediate guitarist would know. At most for rock guys you're going to know the pentatonics, major, harmonic minor, dorian, mixoludian single note scales/modes. You aren't going to go completely out of your way to learn actual compositional techniques and jazz chord tricks like dropping a 2nd to the bass like that when you are focused on normal rock/country/metal music. It's good to be taken out of your comfort zone and learn something you may not have an affinity to.
>>107492232If you're using ttet then you are bumper bowling and doing it inadvertently. It's a whole lot easier when you aren't feeling around in the dark. Most of your post is purely mechanical about guitar and doesn't have to do with composition or theory.
>>107492267I don't see why that has to be called self-learning. You're just learning. I'm sperging out but it sounds really dumb when people say it and it seems like a recent thing that came from reddit.
>>107492232i don't know why you'd torture yourself like this
>>107492289Not him but guitar players in rock need less theory than almost anyone else unironically. Anyone in jazz is obviously going to learn that shit because you have to. In rock you can just play a bunch of riffs that sound cool, slap it together, and you're good. Not that there's anything wrong with theory. It's of course a good thing and I try to use theory to my music too and what I'm doing, but it's largely just a by feel type of thing.
>>107492281>Dude his teacher is widening his horizons beyond what would be picked up naturally. A teacher can be extremely limited and precise in their knowledge. The assumption they are broadening your horizons is ignorant. You could walk to your local music store and have some dipshit give a more knowledgeable diatribe on the most random shit you've ever heard that could unlock a path for you just as easily as just becoming friends with someone who has been introduced to things you never imagined. >At most for rock guys you're going to know the pentatonics, major, harmonic minor, dorian, mixoludian single note scales/modes. You aren't going to go completely out of your way to learn actual compositional techniques and jazz chord tricks like dropping a 2nd to the bass like that when you are focused on normal rock/country/metal music. It's good to be taken out of your comfort zone and learn something you may not have an affinity to.There's a lot of guitarists who can and will do all that stuff and just not know that's what they are doing. You are trying to say without knowledge of theory you are unable to produce the results that come from it but it has been proven time and time again that is literally just not true. It's like you've never even heard of a savant.
>>107492092>With him I learned drop2 chords with 7th cords and their inversions, how to build chord melodies, extensions, altered tensions, modal harmony, voice leading...So all the basic theory stuff you can readily learn from books.
>>107492289>Most of your post is purely mechanical about guitar and doesn't have to do with composition or theory.because theory isn't necessary for guitar
Imagine being such an autistic sperg you think you need theory to rock and roll lmfaoliterally no bitches ass type posts
>>107492360Many big rock people who are successful pretend to know less than they actually do. You can have a Kurt Cobain or SRV who know nothing but for every one of those you have far more who know an intermediate level of theory. Even in country music people know how to play 3rds solos, mixolydian, natural minor, and alternate between major and minor pentatonics. The power chord band is just so fucking boring after a while desu.
>>107462008I'm the middle of the street. Let your music soar.
>>107492365>There's a lot of guitarists who can and will do all that stuff and just not know that's what they are doing. You are trying to say without knowledge of theory you are unable to produce the results that come from it but it has been proven time and time again that is literally just not true.When provided with the bumper bowling 12 notes you can inadvertently figure out the patterns by beating your head against the wall but it's a whole lot faster to read the man pages. Try it without the 12 tones handed down to you already set up to use. You'll end up just playing a scale over a drone note instead of having harmony like most of the world did before europe brought music theory to the world.
>>107492423You're basically saying "For every major rockstar there's session musicians alongside them" and it's like, yeah no shit. You people are acting like if you're self taught you'll never meet another person with knowledge that can be imparted onto you lmao.
>>107492461>just get a teacher bro
>>107492449The fuck are you even talking about? Is English your second language?
>>107492481maybe you are. his post is perfectly understandable.
>>107492492It's literally a tangent that has nothing to do with what I said.Why the fuck are zoomers so illiterate?
>>107492481What I said would be incredibly simple if you weren't a complete ignoramus.
https://voca.ro/1dgOgTkisNqWIs my background formal or self taught?
>>107492507It seems to directly respond to what you wrote. Also your assumption that someone is picking a bad teacher is uncharitable. We could say the same for you picking a bad book or video to learn from.
>>107492507You're acting like they actually figured something out. But they didn't. They were handed legos in a kit and built a model without the instructions through trial and error. You're acting like this is profound but the kit was already provided with instructions and pieces that fit together.
>>107492461>You people are acting like if you're self taught you'll never meet another person with knowledge that can be imparted onto you lmao.literally no one said this. The whole spergout started because some retard (was it you?) said "It's not really possible to learn something effectively by yourself". I mean are we going to get into some idiotic argument how it's learning by yourself is not actually real because you're probably going to consult pre-existing resources or something (which is irrelevant because this all spawned from a guy asking for resources to learn piano; poor guy)?
>>107492535I never say that the teacher was bad, I said it's ridiculous to assume a teacher is broadening horizons when they could be extremely focused in one direction. In fact it's a pretty common thing in a lot of areas. Just because someone can teach you jazz doesn't mean they can teach you dimebag dives and just because someone can teach you how to dimebag dive doesn't mean they can teach you chord theory etc. >We could say the same for you picking a bad book or video to learn from.Again, this is a modern thing and a dumb argument. There's over 30 years of people playing and shredding guitar with none of that available to them learning from listening to the radio, records, tapes, cds, etc.
>>107492560The argument started from this post >>107487787 my reply was >>107491019
>>107492586>I said it's ridiculous to assume a teacher is broadening horizons when they could be extremely focused in one direction.It would be blatantly obvious which they from the first lesson.
>>107492618How would it be obvious to someone who is learning something for the first time? [spoiler]Unless you're saying, gasp, you can teach yourself things and understand paths to take on your own[/spoiler]
So anyway, how do I get good at piano? I know the different keys and their scales and chords and modes... But like I can't put it together and like "just jam" or just play random stuff in a way that sounds good.Also I know my rhythm is shit.
>>107492697Try learning songs and play with a metronome. Also listen to music with strong rhythm sections like Knower
>>107492697Find an easy piece of music and master it. Then gradually learn more difficult pieces. Honestly in 2025 there's pretty easy and advanced tools to learn Piano with the like tablet apps you can follow along and shit.
>>107492712Hell yeah I love knower https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnEmD17kYsE>>107492712
>>107492556yeah, I don't understand this like...machismo or stubbornness with voluntarily wasting your time trying to basically reinvent the wheel. the wheel already exists. there are guys who will happily drill it into you for like $30/hr way faster and more controlled than you ever will by yourself.>>107492639because when you start that first lesson, your teacher is going to talk to you about what the game plan is, what they're about & what they know, and where they want you to go. you don't have to know anything about piano for a guy to be telling you he's a classically trained pianist and he intends on training you that way.
>>107492712>>107492739Whoops posted without second response...Also +1 to the metronome. The amount of musicians who cannot play along to a metronome is too high and as someone who now mostly records others it's extremely frustrating to work with. Also if you ever don't want someone else rerecording your parts you better be good at playing to a met at a minimum to mitigate that risk.
>>107492743...where are you getting the idea that if you self teach you are somehow reinvented the wheel? What do you think self taught means? Have you never read ahead in school and finished lessons before your peers? Have you never picked up a new skill or hobby and sought the information for yourself? Also what is up with the obession with zoomies and this goblin ass "time is money" attitude towards everything? Are your brains that fried from phones? Have you no attention spans? There's so much god damn time in the world to learn and practice things.
Anybody who says teachers aren't necessary have never reached a high level in anything.
>>107492787Who has once argued that teachers aren't necessary?
>>107492781There are two lines of discussion going on. 1. Teacher and 2. Guitarists don't need to learn theory. They have gotten intertwined at this point. Personally I would say go without a teacher until you plateau then get a teacher to break through intermediate level into advanced.
>>107492812by the time you get the teacher, you'll have so many bad habits that you'll be spending a lot of time just trying to undo it all. there was no point. you could have just gotten the teacher from the beginning and saved yourself a lot of time and faffing about.
>>107492812What exactly are these bad habits lmao?
>>107492827meant for >>107492821
>>107492821This would be applicable if you do it too wrong and are trying to learn classical. But if you play to a metronome there isn't really a wrong way to skin a cat if your goal is popular music from jazz onward.
>>107492821Also subscribe to my online course at Big Guitar Academy dot io for a free sheet of chords (only $499 per year or $1499 for lifetime access but you will only see the price on the checkout page for the first time)
>>107492743>drill it into you for like $30/hrmusicians are broke nigga
>>107492878Most bands can't even afford studios for $25/hr and he thinks an individual wants to pay $30/hr for lessons lmao
>>107492798It's clearly heavily implied if not directly stated that you can just fuck around and figure guitar(or piano, whatever) out by yourself.>>107492827NTA but there's endless tiny weird behaviors you may pick up just by happenstance which inhibit your ability and you don't really see or understand you're doing. People who do this will say it makes you "unique" or "gives you a unique sound" or something, but it just makes you worse.
>>107492904>It's clearly heavily implied if not directly stated that you can just fuck around and figure guitar(or piano, whatever) out by yourself....because you can. Doesn't mean teachers aren't necessary or useful to others.>NTA but there's endless tiny weird behaviors you may pick up just by happenstance which inhibit your ability and you don't really see or understand you're doing. People who do this will say it makes you "unique" or "gives you a unique sound" or something, but it just makes you worse.Any examples?
>>107492904>endless tiny weird behaviors you may pick upUnless you're doing something just horribly wrong like playing with horrible bent wrists and giving yourself carpal tunnel or something, this isn't a real thing. Technique for anything is ultimately unique to the individual. If you can adequately express yourself without causing injury or being grossly inefficient, it's the right technique.
>>107492947Yeah I don't know what the fuck this guy is talking about. There's multiple guitarists that literally do weird things that make them capable of doing some niche thing only they can do. It doesn't stop them from playing anything normal it only allows them to play things others cannot.
>>107492947>>107492966Both of you literally just aren't good and aren't capable of seeing that. Someone earlier mentioned James Hetfield as a good guitarist. lol. Neither of you know shit.
>>107492981So you're just straight up trolling at this point?
>>107492947>>107492966>posted 1m30s afterCome on, bro.
>>10746140351 inches is 130cm. Where do you live that you can't buy a desk that wide? You know that you can buy cantilever table legs and then buy a surface separately?
>>107492928Not him but poor timing and not playing to a metronome is the biggest mistake a beginner can make, then bad vibrato technique, improper barring, inefficient scale runs avoiding pinky use, honestly the worst thing is being stagnant and covering up your sloppiness and lack of knowedge with effects. Playing nothing but power chords, noodling in pentatonics. Once you have poor habits and reinforce bad phrasing you'll just keep falling back on that and the habit could just be practice habits.
>>107492981No actual good teacher is going to be dogmatic about technique. They're going to make sure you aren't doing something that's actually bad but if you do something like prefer to play in the classical position when most people play in the "casual position" or whatever you want to call it, they're not going to try and "fix that".
>>107492981I mean, I'm a professional and I've given lessons before so...
>piano thread>g*itarists appear>thread immediately devolves into a dick-measuring contest
>>107493019Pianos talk about measuring dicks more than anyone in the world. "Heh look at this fag who can't stretch his hand on the augmented 13th!"
>>107493038I am so glad I'm not a manlet
>>107492928These instruments are not to be played just any way, regardless of what some faggots playing bar chords and pop songs, like 10,000 other faggots before them who all sound the same, claim. If you want to make something beautiful, there's a technique you must perfect and it was perfected over hundreds of years by guys smarter than you. You can't afford a teacher? That sucks, but it doesn't make you right. You are at a disadvantage and that's just reality. Whether you accept it or not is nmp.
>>107493009I wouldn't call those "weird behaviors". That's just straight up being a bad, sloppy playing. Someone that is not very disciplined could indeed end up like that and a good teacher would certainly help them. But those things are all also fairly self obvious and a mildly disciplined person would avoid that. I mean no shit, if you don't use all 4 fingers on your fretting hand, you're going to be less efficient in many situations. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
>>107493062>there's a technique you must perfect and it was perfected over hundreds of years by guys smarter than youSure and you can google it and learn it online for free
>>107493038Yeah that was retarded too, but that bait wasn't as effective as the guitarfag's
>>107493019It's kind of funny that the guitarists, the instrument that costs like $100 to get into and every third worlder plays, are the ones arguing you don't need to pay for a teacher to get good. lol. lmao. Sad!*continue playing $15,000 Kawai NV10*
>>107493062The fuck is your autistic ass even on about. "Um actually, if you don't play guitar exactly like it was coming into fruition in the 12th century" Nigga, pickups didn't even exist until the 1930s.
>>107493019>>107493102the guitar general on /mu/ is literally all thirdies. hypothesis confirmed.
>>107493108I just want to achieve this level of musical autismhttps://youtu.be/Zkuo2384ZN4?si=RWpZgMoUV9Et6lED
>>107493108The fact that this vexes you is all anybody needs to know.
>>107493151You sound like the kind of person who's never properly had their ass kicked.
>>107493192Grug like power chord grug like metal
>>107493209I like everything actually. Here's a demo of something of mine you can check out. https://voca.ro/153m4BepkJyN
>>107493209Who doesn't like power chords and metal?
>>107493339I accidentally started listening to megadeth again :(
>>107493350Hello me, it's me again.
>>107493321That was actually dope
>>107493118The entirety of /mu/ is such a pile of shit I never once managed to find anything worthwhile on it, so I've give up.
>>107493612I have gotten far better music recs from /r9k/ than /mu/
>>107493321Actually pretty good
Let's address the real issue... Who has better style?Pianists?
>>107494266Or guitarists?
>>107494279lol didn't realize that image was xbox hueg
>>107494266Rick Wakeman is clearly peak /fa/ so I don't think this is a question.
