Ray tracing is not used to provide better graphics to players, but to cut development costs from corporations and make the customers buy high end hardware
I really don't understand the develiper-side hype with raytracingSure, if you're making an ultra realistic game you can simply light it like a movie set or a real estate photoshoot and it will work out automatically, but what if the game is not realistic? How the fuck are you going to light some alien base or psychadelic dream sequence with "real" lights?
>>107490909What you say makes no sense. Ray tracing depicts the way we understand light. Even if there's a way light works that we don't understand, we wouldn't see it. Therefore, no need to think about how alien lights work, because you'll see what you are able to see anyway.
>>107490872Deferred renderer vs forward renderer.Forward renderer is better in everything except for the number of lights in a scene, this can be solved with baked lighting.Deferred rendering is also why they push for temporal technologies which make games a blurry mess, especially in motion.
>>107490872If AMD actually cared ray-tracing would be the standard by now just like with shaders back in the day. Rendering shit in 4K and up is just way too costly and time consuming so Ray tracing is absolutely necessary if you want games to be released in less than half a decade
>>107490872If the Jews don't want to get Shoah'ed then why do they ruin our circuses and give us a moldy bread? Their shortsightedness, attempts to lower production cost and maximize profits will ultimately be their downfall.
>>107490872these pics are schizo tierlike am I suppose to see some difference between left and right here? They look exactly the same, also maybe save the file as something other than a jpg so it isnt blurry as fuck. FUCK.
>>107490872In case you might be unaware, AW2 uses software RT when you switch off hardware RT. The software RT is baked into the Northlight Engine that AW2 uses. So there's no way to purely rasterize this game.
>>107491010>this can be solved with baked lightingtrue for static content but baked lightmaps is shit at handling dynamic objects, movable lights and a lot of modern features (like dynamic GI, reflections, movable characters and day/night cycles).>>107491065It's worse than that, it's a jpg of a YouTube screenshot (that clearly is in 720p or something) and a picture taken from Google, the guy who made this image is a absolute moron
>>107491054>Rendering shit in 4K and up is just way too costly and time consuming so Ray tracing is absolutely necessary if you want games to be released in less than half a decadeWhat's the one have to do with the other?
>>107490909The point is that you can light your scenes directly in real time in the editor without having to go through iterations of baking and evaluating and editing. It saves a lot of time.Also if you take the pbr pill you can fire all your lighting artists because whatever crap your throw in there will be "accurate" and therefore "correct" and "good".
>>107491176Then why isn't raytracing just something the develipers use but then everything gets baked in so the end user doesn't need a nuclear powerhouse to run?>>107490949Are you retarded? If I want a non-realistic look and I work with realistic lighting there are many things I cannot do or would need retarded workarounds
>>107491078Aw2 uses set time of day so many environments have baked lightingPath tracing is most noticeable in reflections and dynamic shadows and environment bounce lighting
>>107491114Why do you think that "pre-baked lighting" is called that?
>>107491267Because they already drank the deferred rendering kool-aid and have no interest in static lighting at all.
reminder that anyone bringing up deferred rendering is some schizo/teen who watched some grifters youtube video
>>107491267>Then why isn't raytracing just something the develipers use but then everything gets baked in so the end user doesn't need a nuclear powerhouse to run?That's what baked lighting is and why games take ages to come out now, pre-rendering everything and checking if every single thing is working properly is a massive resource and time hog in games with a lot of high-resolution shit (also pre-rendered lighting and shadows go on the game's storage too so if consoles start pushing for 8K baked lighting get ready for 1tb games)
>>107491100>baked lightmaps is shit at handling dynamic objectsYou obviously bake the places where you don't need dynamic lights.>movable lightsYou can use them in a forward renderer too.>and a lot of modern features (like dynamic GI>and day/night cycles).It's a stupid concept.>reflections,>movable characterslol, they are actually less expensive in a forward renderer compared to a deferred renderer.
>>107491432>You obviously bake the places where you don't need dynamic lights.>You can use them in a forward renderer too.That's how you get games that take a decade to come out>It's a stupid concept.Open world games are a stupid concept?>lol, they are actually less expensive in a forward renderer compared to a deferred renderer.Depends. Most AAA engines use deferred-forward hybrid since deferred gets faster than forward as light count grows for opaque geometry on bandwidth-adequate platforms (with the advantage amplified by overdraw) but Forward is still necessary for transparency as it's faster on bandwidth-limited hardware (mobile, VR) regardless of light count since deferred is memory-hungry AF and foward handles material heterogeneity more naturally
>>107491613> Forward is still necessary for transparencyThey don't do real transparency anymore. Modern games use dithered transparency and hide it with TAA
>>107491176>2025>baking takes timeI call bullshit.
>>107491056Well, when being a victim and the whole world wanting to kill you for being you makes up for such a big part of your neurotic personality....sooner or later...your wish may come true.Just an observation, sometimes I get the impression that they just can't help themselves.Wouldn't be the first, twentieth, and so on time either, I hear.Of course I wish them the introspection to avoid anything like this, I'm not some kind of monster!
>>107490909This has nothing to do with realism. Even heavily stylized game use raytracing for baked shadow, and RTX makes game development miles easier since you don't need to wait.Counter-Strike 2 has no RTX yet highly recommend RTX compatible card for the hammer editor for that reason.
>>107490872And those games have been selling like shit compared to previous games while having higher dev cost.Every day monster hunter wilds suffers is a good day for me, but that game is a special case because RT doesn't even hurt performance that badly, it just runs like dogshit.If they fail the winter update the game is dead and will have a small reception to G rank
>>107491731>baked shadowno dev other than Source Chads has used baked shadows in 20 years
>>107490872I've been saying this since deferred rendering was first a thing almost 20+ years ago nowEnjoy it nigger
>>107491704Nope and you can thank companies trying to sell more screens for that. we went 720p>1080p but not 1080p>1440p so resolutions are way heavier than what most hardware can tank, only now we're getting the true "4k ready" GPUs. If you use a 4080 in 1440p with dlaa on a game you will feel what current AAA gaming would be like if Sony, Samsung and Co. Didn't decide to jump straight to 2160p
>>107491782I have a 4k oled and just play on my 144hz screen if the game doesn't support HDR, just don't see the point in most cases
>>107490872yes.we've been saying it since a whilesome of us since longer than others
>>107491732RE Engine is absolutely dogshit at open/large worlds and it's lighting implementation is UE3 tier even with RT. In the Dragons Dogma II code someone found a experimental toggle that runs almost every light and shadow in the game on path tracing and even with a broken denoiser it still looks like a actual good-looking game because the default REE lighting implementation just ruins textures that much
>>107491782(me)Meant to say>nope, baked in 4k is turbo heavy and you can thank companies trying to sell more screens for that(1024x1024 textures and shadows look completely fine in 1440p but not so much in 4K)
OP IS A PASCAL FAGGOT
>>107491832You would think after DD failing and having a console target they would just remove the open world aspect of the game. A year in and nobody uses it and there's nothing in it but they are too fucking incompetent to find ways to fix the loading issues or just abandon it all together.None of the maps warrant not being instanced and they refuse to listen to basic feedback.Wilds looks like a PS4 game and runs like shit on any system.Just watching them resort to begging and seeing it on target to sell less than world's year one sales has made me feel good.I have zero faith in the winter update and I hope this team gets demoted and the B team takes over because they can actually listen to fucking feedback.
>>107491741lots of raster games still used baked shadows. its just for misc objects now instead of the primary render.
>>107491707>enjoy your meal seasoned with melted plastic
>>107490872Duh.
>>107490872RT is so annoying. It's obvious that RT can't really support 4k so in a lot of games the RT parts are lower res and have this ugly low res burn thing going on.>>107491707does that really even count as stirring? also, that banana tool just seems like a pain in the ass to clean.
>>107490872I agree, developers should learn2code instead of chasing up stock prices (no I refuse to pay shlomo gpu taxes to play the latest sloppa humiliation rituals)
>>107491707suddenly cock sounding
>>107492159>it's obvious that RT can't really support 4kSee>>107491782
>>107490872how did Valve do it 20 years ago without Ray Tracing?Why don't more games use the same technique?
>>107492455Rushing deadlines and CEOs that don't care about gaming being in charge.
>>107490872Jokes on them, customers buy fewer games every year.Vidya isn't the sort of product where you can rely on just a small and wealthy audience to make an income, you need the masses.
>>107491367Holy shit are you illiterate or what?THE DEVELOPERS USE RAY TRACING SO THEY CAN PLACE LIGHTS AND SEE THE EFFECT IN REAL TIME AND ONCE THEY'RE HAPPY THEY BAKE IT IN AUTOMATICALLY ON RELEASE
>>107492583Also factor in most people wait for sales, not because they are cheap but because the games are incomplete at launch and you can get it less than half price by the time it's dime
>>107490909Not sure what you mean exactly, but you could use less ray bounces or alter parameters for how much color the bounces pick up... That sort of thing.
>>107492611Devs already do that and the reason they want to move away from it to real time lighting is because baking is not a simple thing, it takes time and power to do it and is only getting worse as resolutions increase (Baking requires special UVs, separate workflows for movable objects, and often significant artist time to fix artifacts. Not everything is suitable for baking (e.g., fully dynamic worlds, destructible geometry, those things take a lot of time that could go somewhere else if every or most of the lighting was in real time)
>>107492583>watch a review of a new game i'm interested in>wants top end specs for the best experiencemaybe if they didn't target a 5090 at 1440 with mfg for 60fps i'd buy more new games.
>>107491065They're also pics and don't show the horrible ghosting from upscaling and the update delays of gaychasing.
>>107490909Global illumination would persist even in non-realistic settings. Look at something like octopath traveler, which uses modern rendering techniques. >>107491065There is a difference. Right has GI enabled. Look at the reflections in the water and the correct color of the boat hull. >>107492701Baking requires a shitload of VRAM (massive textures for storing huge worlds). I think the best solutions are hybrids, where you precompute some lighting information but not all of it.
>>107493459i thought baking was done on a cpu with tons of ram when needed
>>107492455Screen space reflections. it's almost free and looks better than RT reflections but cant reflect things outside the view.This is easily fixed with rendering a another view for it (can be done at half res) which will cost 10-50% more but looks better than RT again and is mostly cheaper.>>107492701> it takes time and powerYes, so? It's very much worth it. Of course devs should spend time and money on the games.>Baking requires special UVs, separate workflows for movable objects, and often significant artist time to fix artifactsPoor workflow issue.>Not everything is suitable for baking (e.g., fully dynamic worldsIrrelevant cherry pick, only applies to minecraft and pretty much nothing else. Oh which reminds me that raster shader packs look 10x better and are less demanding than minecraft rtx.
>>107492159>pain in the assThat's NOT how you use it!
>>107493475Once you bake the scene you have to upload it into GPU ram. If your scene is huge and has a big mix of small and large objects it becomes hard to pick an ideal lightmap size, and now you have to use multiple lightmaps potentially via some kind of cascade system. People who say "just use lightmaps lol" aren't graphics devs. The reason why companies are just doing raytracing for everything is because it's substantially easier than trying to come up with some ultra bespoke lightmapping situation. I don't think lightmapping should be completely eschewed. Just that they should make smarter systems around it. It's an active research field.
>>107493477Half Life 2 doesn't use SSR reflections on the water though
>>107493459>Global illumination would persist even in non-realistic settingThat's just the thing:some devs don't WANT that in their games. If I want a 100% celshaded, animu or cartoon-style game, I literally have to disable 90% of UE5's shit.>>107493459>There is a difference. Right has GI enabled.No, right has RAY TRACED global illumination enabled.You can do GI without ray-tracing. Even PS3 could do that, using nodes.>Baking requires a shitload of VRAMIt really does not.>>107493475That's how it wad done THIRTY YEARS ago.These days, everything is GPU powered, and thus thousands of times faster. As if the average consumer PC hardware would not be a good 500-1000 times faster by default compared to what we had back in 2004.>>107493477>Screen space reflections.Why the fuck do you lie online?Screenspace reflections were NOT A thing for another DECADE or so.Half-Life 2 and many other games of the decade used PLANAR REFLECTYION, which are NOT screenspace.Instead, they use SECONDARY CAMERA that captures footage from a different perspective, and this perspective is then PROJECTED onto the reflective surface, such as plane of water, CCTV screen, or a literal mirror. Some math is applied to the output to improve the perspective according the needs.What this means is that you get 100% perfect "reflections" of ANYTHING, and the reflections will NOT disappear when you turn the camera away.The SSR cancer started only during the PS4 era, when the lazyass zoomer devs had started wasting resources on their poorly optimized console trash, and couldn't figure out how to do shit in Deferred Rendering.Thus was born the "OMG you need to render the scene TWICE!!" meme, that is used against planar and refreshed cubemap reflections... that would provide superior results than SSR, for fraction of the cost of real RT.Even Xbox 360 and PS3 games, from Oblivion to fucking Crysis 3, used planar reflections.,
>>107493343These companies are dumb as shit, they shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for the most high-end GPU's for their development computers, when in reality they should have given all their devs RTX 5060's and tell them "make it work on these"
>>107493563This. HL2 does not use screen space ANYTHING, ANYWHERE.It's a cold day in hell when the zoom zooms have been successfully conditioned to think that anything non-RT is "screen space".Planar reflections and other Render-To-Texture tricks were already doable on a fucking N64, back in 1990s.
why would average gamer know anything about how lighting is done in games?
>>107493580this sort of trick only works because there is a single light source and puddle.
>>107493563>>107493569Okay my bad then. Looks like SSR in the example.>Half-Life 2 and many other games of the decade used PLANAR REFLECTIONIm wrong about HL2 then but yeah as I detailed in my post it's a perfect and cheaper than RTX way of doing reflections.
Can anyone tell me why photorealism is even desirable in video games?Your waifu is NOT real, it will NEVER be real!
>>107493569It does require a lot of vram if your world is huge. You could segment the world into chunks and then only load the lightmaps for each area, which would help alleviate some pressure.I think it's an artist workflow issue. Artists don't want to wait when they're creating the level to see what it looks like, so its attractive to just calculate all the RT in real time. Then that ends up persisting in the actual gameplay because it's easier than maintaining two separate pipelines for rendering. But the "right" thing to do would be to maintain the separate pipelines.
>>107490872>water is wetyeah no shit
>>107493610Because 90% of "gamers" are just normies who want barely interactive marvel movies
>>107493610Because deep inside everyone wants to live in a fantasy world, and video-games are basically tiny Matrixes. When games become real enough to trick our brains, then it will be good enough to live inside them
>>107493598It's used all around the game, and it's not a "trick". It's a commonly used R2T method.>>107493600>it's a perfect and cheaper than RTX way of doing reflections.Cheaper? Yes.Perfect? Fuck no. The noise and huge gaps in any and all SSR annoys the shit out of me. They could've just slapped a 20+ yo planar reflection method used in Max Payne 2, HL2, Far Cry, Oblivion, Fallout 3... etc, and gotten near-identical results to the RTX, without SSR's issues.But I know they wouldn't do that, as it'd make the RTX carts and tech seem pointless. Which it is.The nu-Hitman games used Planar reflections extensively, not only on mirrors and water surfaces, but on translucent surfaces, like Windows.>>1074936314K 4-color grayscale bitmap would not require much VRAM at all, lower quality mip-maps and streaming different LODs would help even more, and you already mentioned the segmenting method yourself.While not "huge" by today's standards, you only need to check out late-00s' games, such as STALKER or Crysis, and see that hybrid methods were not an issue at all 15 years ago. And those were games made to run on 256-512MB DX9 cards.
>>107493477>Yes, so? It's very much worth it. Of course devs should spend time and money on the games.So you want games to take a decade to come out and still be full of bugs huh?>Poor workflow issue.What the fuck are you talking about lmao. If a better workflow could fix baked lighting's limitations ngreedia wouldn't be pushing for consumer-grade real time ray tracing, they would be fine with milking devs instead>only applies to minecraftBecause figuring out how to mix pre-rendered and randomized stuff is a pain in the ass, if people could run everything in real time on average consumer hardware way more true sandbox games would exist (also saying that modders are more competent than Mojang is like saying "water is wet")
I love how the whole reason why ray-tracing is pushed hard is because it's a pain in the ass to get baked lighting right in high-resolution, detailed scenarios but you faggots keep mentioning old games with way simpler geometry made with <hd textures to run in 720p screens as proof that "there's nothing wrong with baked lighting"
>>107493740NTA, but you really reek like an Nvidia shill at this point.We had large, artistically beautiful games already 15-20 years ago, that did not take decades to come out, even when the devs had to work with hundreds of times slower and weaker development hardware, way simpler software, and often had to manually craft majority of the fine details themselves.Baked lighting was never a limitation, and we could already have dynamic lighting "bubble" follow the player in the PS3 era, culling dynamic lights and shadows in and out as the player moved, switching to static lightmaps when further away from the object.tl;dr: modern day gaming industry is exactly like Barbarians ruining the once great Roman empire; creating problems just to sell you solutions, in subject matters that were solved already decades back
>>107491707Convenience is a detriment to us, a disease to our spirit
>>107493781>hd textures to run in 720p screens as proof that "there's nothing wrong with baked lighting>In order to run ray tracing, you must use upscaling to get acceptable performance, sometimes rendering at 720p
>>107493781>I love how the whole reason why ray-tracing is pushed hard is because it's a pain in the ass to get baked lighting right in high-resolutionNow you're just mixing two completely different subject matters like a retard.We've had almost perfect Rasterized real-time lighting and GI solutions for well over a decade. Not everything needs to be baked. Fucking STALKER SoC could do 100% dynamic lights and shadows on DirectX9, back in 2007, and the sequels honed this tech further by introducing stuff like contact-hardening shadows, AO, GI, world-space sunshafts... et cetera.You'll be hard pressed to find such extreme graphix whore that would have trouble playing a 2015-ish "PS4 looking games", whee those games include titles like MGSV, TW3, GTA5, Talos Principle... et ceteral.Hell,, just take a random open-world racing game from the 8th gen, and you'll probably get better visuals and performance than anything UE5 offers today.
>>107493850>*sometimes rendering at 360pFixed that for you.Just about all Piss5 UE5 titles run at literal 1990s' quality when set to the "performance" mode. Meanwhile, the "quality" mode is 720p at ~30fps... meaning exact same shit we had to deal with on PS3 already, 20 years ago!
>>107493800>NTA, but you really reek like an Nvidia shill at this point.What? Nvidia and AMD not investing into ray tracing enough is the reason why it's still heavy to run, if resources were properly allocated to RT it would be as light as shaders in 2010 today>modern day gaming industry is exactly like Barbarians ruining the once great Roman empireMore like 19th century noveau riche going from one cargocult to another so "they don't end up looking like peasants">the rest of what you saidconsumers and publishers want more detailed models and higher resolutions even if games get forever stuck on 30fps and baked lighting just isn't compatible with that. Go convice them, not me
>>107493851The 1080p era is when the amount of time to develop a game drastically went up and devs of big projects realized that they would need to start running more and more stuff in real time dude
>>107493972Nope. Again, you're making up weirdass laalaa narratives that are not rooted to anything real.I was actually already working on the field back in the mid 2010s. I started practicing 3D modeling and game development in the mid-2000s.The dynamic stuff became more and more popular because the specs finally allowed it, and it was novel after decade(s) of very tight and static game worlds. Sadly, the amount of actually dynamic interaction and effects started declining FAST after ~2015, which arguably was the era with the best art-design : tech balance.
>>107494275The 1080p era lasts from 2010 to around 2020 and it's around 2015 where people started noticing that games are starting to take too long to develop
>>107494355Again spewing some bizarre mushroom narratives. And that "1080p era" really tells me all about your background and age, since by 2015 most PC gamers had already moved past FullHD and 60fps.The average development times of most vidya did not change one bit at all during the 21st century. You're probably thinking of some rare exceptions like DNF, FF15 and whatnot; development hell shit.If anything, the 2010s was notorious for the annual release scheme of AAA studios, with Ubisoft sometimes pushing out multiple AC games out during the SAME YEAR, followed by obvious DLC barrage soon after, ending with the hype train pushing the next big installment (which was often just a rehash).Making a game has not been easier and faster than it is now, and the only thing they "cost more" is because of multi-million dollar marketing campaigns, and use of licensed brands / big name Hollywood stars.
>>107490872Raytracing can provide dynamic light. Everything in Half-Life 2 is baked. Change the day time in Half Life 2, and everything will look like shit.
I want Path Tracing in all future games.It looks so much better.If you play Cyberpunk 2077 with PT enabled, the difference is night and day.
>>107494402>by 2015 most PC gamers had already moved past FullHD and 60fps.In what fucking timeline are you living in dude, 1440p only sorta started getting ground in 2017 and most people went from 1080p directly to 2160p in 2020 because they fell for the 4k meme>Making a game has not been easier and faster than it is nowUnless you're counting AI that's not true at all, higher resolution assets obviously take more time to make
The purpose of RT was a differentiating gimmick to keep outcompeting AMD. 20-series was only strong enough to give gimmick reflections while tanking the FPS. Only the higher end 50-series are starting have enough grunt to run path tracing with acceptable FPS. The caveat being that everything relies on multi frame accumulation. Fast moving lights or transient lights will still look awful.
>>107491010>Forward renderer is better in everything except for the number of lights in a scene, this can be solved with baked lighting.Wasn't the forward lightning problem solved a decade ago with forward+?
>>107494416Spiderman 2 doesn't have day and night cycle. Alan wake 2 doesn't have day and night cycle
>>107494416>Raytracing can provide dynamic light.You don't need Gaytracing for dynamic lights.Were any of you kids even alive 20 years ago?Also, AAA movie shit like AW2, MGS3 Delta and SH2 demake are prime examples of absolutely wasteful use of RT and other "dynamic" features, since you're stuck in a tiny, static world that could easily be optimized to run 100x faster, simply by baking most of the effects.>>107494477>1440p only sorta started getting ground in 2017lol nope. You can find plenty of videos of people switching to 1440p and / or 120hz monitors in 2013-2014, since it was so easy to run the common stuff at the time.I've been on 1200p since 2009.>most peopleYou mean console peasants, no?>unless you're counting AINo, I am not. It shows that you've never opened an SDK or game-making app of any sort the past 20 years.I'm a 3D artist myself. I learned to do things the "hard way" in the early 00s, that is drawing polygons by hand, UV Unwrapping by hand, and creating textures in Photoshop... by hand.The shit some Blender kids can pull off in matter of seconds using default functions, add-ons, media libraries and the node-based texture / shader builders, is utterly ridiculous.Not to mention all these 100% free game making tools that cover all the basics and some truly advanced stuff, such as physics and online packet management, in a truly drag & drop environment... the 13yo me would've made ten Resident Evil, Zelda and Half-Life clones in a span of couple years had we got even half of this stuff.Make no mistake:It's never been easier, faster, and cheaper to make a full-blown 3D video game. And if you think otherwise, you're either literally underaged, impatient as fuck, or a shill of some corporate tech that serves no purpose other than making problems to sell ya solutions.>>107494685It was. And other "hybrid" solutions came out along the way.Croteam used to be masters of that tech. SS3 and TP1 look AMAZING.
>>107491267You know games are interactive, right? Sometimes the lights and objects move?There are cheaper and arguably better ways to solve this problem than RT, but your job is also to make gaymers go :O and only RT does that.
>>107494824>your job is also to make gaymers go :O and only RT does that.Delusional as hell.The biggest "WHOA!! :O" moments the past 10 years have come from traditional games, some even using Forward Rendering engines, that run amazingly on outdated as fuck hardware, look stable and sharp as hell with no upscalers nor TAA to ruin the visuals, and have some extremely beautiful artistry going on.Yakuza 0, Nier Automata, Subnautica, MGSV, Deep Rock Galactic, Death Stranding... many such cases. All games you could easily run at Ultra settings on an GTX 1070, with 2x SSAA.Hell, I still get more kicks from seeing the 36,000 zombies in the OG Dead Rising 1, and 5000 enemies and missiles leaping and flying about in Serious Sam 3.
>>107494887These games were all outsold by Cyberpunk 2077.
>>107494751>>107494887based posts
>>10749087290% of g: "Corporations are led bad."> "but to cut development costs from corporations and make the customers buy high end hardware"Yeah, now cope, seethe and dilate neet
>>107495004What's your job?
>>107493598They render the scene upside down with a clip plane, in real time before the main frame.
>>107490872Ray Tracing is a scam just like OLED.
>>107495210Chemical Engineering =)
>>107491176>The point is that you can light your scenes directly in real time in the editor without having to go through iterations of baking and evaluating and editing. It saves a lot of time.Sure you can make this argument, but here's where it fails: Once you've settled on a result you can simply decide to go with it and then bake it. Voila! Fast development and good performance for the end user.
>>107494751A lot of new low-poly indie games don't run well on modern integrated graphics.I've written a fair bit of opengl 1.2 and can just wonder how they manage to do this.
>>107494595This. They knew they MASSIVELY fucked up with the 1080Ti and they desperately needed a way to keep herding the cattle.
>>107490949>>107491731no, I think I get what he’s saying. you don’t always want light in a videogame to behave the way light does in real life.like in a 3d platformer you want a shadow directly under the character to see where he’s going to land, regardless of if that makes sense with the lighting of the scene.or maybe you want a characters face to be well well lit even in a dim environment. or you want shadows to behave in ways they clearly shouldn’t to lend a sense of unease to a dream sequence.all of these require hand crafting and not just perfectly realistic light sources.
>>107493569>some devs don't WANT that in their games. If I want a 100% celshaded, animu or cartoon-style game, I literally have to disable 90% of UE5's shit.that's like 1% of all *relevant* 3d games>>107496349>all of these require hand crafting and not just perfectly realistic light sources.or you just could care less and use raytracing aniway, saving a ton of development time, shortening your time to market, and making money faster
>>107493569>celshadedYou were so close to being based only to throw it all away.
>>107496349>I decide NOT to use the eraser tool on photoshopAnd? Most people still do
>>107491176>The point is that you can light your scenes directly in real time in the editor without having to go through iterations of baking and evaluating and editing. It saves a lot of time.Oh I get it. It's yet another way to take the artistry out of visual design. Just simulate the light instead of carefully crafting it. Just like they did with procedural textures, extreme high res mocap, doing lidar scans of everything instead of just making simple assets with textures, etc. Thanks for explaining that this is just part of the great sloppification
>>107496538Why is it that anyone that uses the word slop never has anything worth reading never mind a single original thought?Go bot run down your script should be something about how UE5 ruined games.
>>107496559>buzzwords reply with no argumentLook at that. A numale in the flesh. The perfect consumer
>>107496381>slop is more profitablegood point
>>107496567>muh slop>buzzwords replyIf only you were self-aware.
>>107493600>perfect and cheaperCheaper yes, assuming you have a single plane to reflect, though it massively scales in cost with however many surfaces at different angles you have. Curved surfaces are not feasible whatsoever beyond a little bit of normal map trickery.For water it massively limits you to basically only allowing the water to be a flat plane, and not create any waves.
>>107490909It makes getting realistic lighting free from a developer/art team perspective. It means you can hire any 3D artist without them having to know the exact tricks and hacks used to achieve various looks without ray tracing. You can set up scenes more like they’d actually be in reality, add light sources without having to deal with weird fuckery like light bleed or similar, and so-on.
>>107496538I’d agree with most of this, but those high-res scans are often of props made specifically for the game by sculptors or other artists. It means your 3D artist doesn’t also need to be an expert in stone-carving and its characteristics to get an accurate result.
>>107496559>UE5 ruined gamesyes
>>107491294Baking lighting doesn't take as long as you think it does
ray tracing is garbage, it is a waste of computation resources. i stopped caring after i finished cyberpunk 2077. that was the last game i cared about "graphics". these days i play what interests me, and that just happens to be mostly older titles or visual novels. my use of gpu has shifted from being used for gaming to ai content creation and cooming. i have a steam libary of games that i don't play and a top end pc, there really is no point in worrying about graphics when that is the state i am in.
>>107491613>That's how you get games that take a decade to come outHalf-Life Alyx looks great even 5 years later and runs extremely well.>Open world games are a stupid concept?Yes. Linear is good but semilinear is best.>>107491665Can you elaborate on that?How does the renderer know about how to shade the fake transparency pixels?>>107494941What a stupid argument.Selling more copies does not mean that the underlying technologies are better.Cyberpunk 2077 forces TAA as the only anti-aliasing option and you can't disable it.This is pretty bad for clarity and is really noticeable during camera motion.
>>107491665Sega Saturn was the way of the future all along.
>>107497905>Selling more copies does not mean...It's the only objective proof of what people want. Anything else is pure opinion.I was assuming questions of the form "why do developers do X" are asking about material reality.If you don't care and are just here to LARP as threatzoomer then go nuts but don't @ me again.I agree with you by the way but it literally doesn't matter.
>>107496381>saving a ton of development time, shortening your time to marketso why do these "modern" games take so fucking long to make, while the old games released in 1/4th the time?
>>107497905>how to shade the fake transparency pixelsTraditionally (as in, like, early 2010s) you would mark pixels belonging to alpha-stippled objects somehow, e.g. GTAV used an alpha channel in its gbuffer for this, and then in a fullscreen pass you'd blend these pixels with their neighbors. These days I think games literally just don't bother because gaymers have been categorically proven not to care about graphics artifacts of any kind, so you can just feed your image into TAA as-is and call it a day.
>half-life 2 and cp2077 with max raytracing look exactly the same i can't tell the differenceDo poorfags actually believe this or do they know that it's just cope?
>>107491054>If AMD actually cared ray-tracing would be the standard by nowIt is the standard. AMD has been less than 10% of the GPU market for a while now.
>>107498293maybe because they keep increasing the scope of the games or hiring retards
If the increased hardware requirements resulted in smarter enemies and allies I would be supporting this.But they are used for fancier graphics while the ai remains at the levels of the nineties.
>>107499775Funny! >Nvidia makes AI GPUs.>Videogame ai is handled only by the cpu
>>107500611I remember them advertising npu, I wonder what happened to that gimmick.Because essentialy most games today are at super mario levels of ai with good graphics.
>>107493834100% of what was pictured is chinese
>>107491613>That's how you get games that take a decade to come outNot true and not an argument. Just say it how it really is: It's lazyness and incompetence.
>>107490872>playing games involving niggers>playing games with yourself as the nigger>perpertual pursuit of even better graphics to see the niggers betteri will never understand gaymers
>>107500811Using an LLM or equivalent style of AI in a video game would require it to be built from scratch, very small, and likely utilize an architecture not yet made. Basically the generative AI model to improve behavior of game elements doesn't exist (to my knowledge).Best you can get is LLMs piped in for dialogue.
>>107501194>LLMs piped in for dialogueI think where winds meet does something like this.
>>107501194LLMs are for dialogue. It's overkill for everything else
>>107498243>It's the only objective proof of what people want.Your argument still doesn't hold up. You can't precisely measure success in the market, that is highly dependent on external factors and the most important one is luck.You can however precisely measure image quality, image clarity and which technologies does a game uses.>>107498365So the transparency effect is based on the dithering pattern and the transparency percentage amount depends on the number of pixels dithered?This might work when you need transparency uniformly but it will never work when you need different levels of transparency in different areas.
>>107498293It is unironically DEI hires and outsourcing to thirdies.Hire only competent developers and do everything game related in-house. Development time will be 2-3 years instead of 5+.
>>107490872>>107491054you know how we know its total bs?the moment amd had any decent perfomance increase in RT during rdna 2.0 (yes i know its shit but its still better than rdna 1.0) nvidia started pushing path tracing and most developers started making tools for them so two things are happening here1)either devs are stupid as fucking idiots 2)or nvidia is actually paying them good money to have the features in
>>107491054>if you want games to be released in less than half a decadeSo what? There are enough games already. Five years of wait is more than acceptable. What kind of a consoomer cattle are you?
>>107490872I would be wheezing if i forgot that we do in fact live in a world this retarded.
>>107502406Explain yourself
>>107501554It doesn't have to work in all cases, the point is to not waste GPU time on alpha-blending in cases where you can get away without it.
>>107490872Is there an RTX option to remove the nigger?
>>107502788In a deferred rendered game if devs implement a second forward renderer pass to just render objects that have transparency is still faster than dithering tho. You also have way better quality.It's not very common because devs are lazy.
>>107502879Every engine can do proper alpha-blending. It is absolutely NOT faster than discarding half of your fucking fragments. What kind of mad-libs claim is that?
