>>107493417
>the "X" in XDG stands for X11
are you retarded

>>107493599
could you perhaps not tell from all the schizobable

is this pasta?

>>107493599
> freedesktop.org (fd.o), formerly X Desktop Group (XDG),[1][2] is a project to work on interoperability and shared base technology for free-software desktop environments for the X Window System (X11) and Wayland on Linux and other Unix-like operating systems.
Are *you* retarded?

>>107493746
no, its an actual Wayland user collapsing.

>>107493417
yeah this is exactly the reason we UPGRADED to the framebuffer at work from various embedded x86 hardware, no more xorg or wayland retardation, straight to /dev/fb0 it's crazy how absolute garbage desktop linux is after all these years wasted on this non-sense, what a fucking waste of ressources.
handling windows and kb/mouse/touch event without X11 or wayland is very easy, I've written a framebuffer gui toolkit and wm under a week and we basically went from random hang/crash/input loses/etc to work every time 24/7/365, no dependency mess and minus 80MB of random weston/xorg libs.

>>107495047
>I've written a framebuffer gui toolkit and wm
show pls

>>107495047
have you tried Arcan?

>>107495047
>>107495143
https://directfb2.github.io/

>>107493417
do animated cursors on pling work under wayland? i dont know exactly what handles them, but it says x11 there.

>>107495047
X11 isn't that bad imo. Creating a window and getting keypress event:

#include <X11/Xlib.h>
#include <stdio.h>

int main(void) {
    Display *dpy = XOpenDisplay(NULL);

    Window window = XCreateSimpleWindow(dpy, DefaultRootWindow(dpy), 10, 10, 200, 200, 1, 0x00000000, 0xffffffff);
    XSelectInput(dpy, window, KeyPressMask);
    XMapWindow(dpy, window);

    XEvent xev;
    for(;;) {
        XNextEvent(dpy, &xev);
        if(xev.type == KeyPress)
            fprintf(stderr, "pressed key: %d\n", xev.xkey.keycode);
    }
}

>>107495703
nothing works on wayland nigga

>>107493746
No this is what happens when you're forced to work "with" wayland.

>>107493417
Could you just take all the useful protocols together and make a proper wayland server and ignore the wayland protocl committee?

>>107496667
Valve has been threatening that on and off for years. I think they will eventually but it's cheaper to put fear into them than fund and build a team to do it full time to get the ball rolling

>>107495047
based based based

>>107493417
I dont get why a controller doesnt work on games with HDR in wayland. You can run games with HDR in wayland nowadays, but the catch is that your cant use a controller. I remember searching for it, and the reason was retardedly convoluted

>>107496847
Tranny haet controller >:(

>>107496847
Has everything to do with the Wayland commitee kicking and screaming over something fucking retarded that could just be put on a switch. They are angling to be humuilated and leave a legacy of shame once the valve gets tired of their shit. They just need to do the intial funding and have a few devs help and the wayland faggots will basically be a crop that can be harvested to build up a more respected and used project.

>>107493417
Maybe you should Google what "unstable" means for a Wayland protocol before you start shitting up the board with a billion threads about how terrible that is.

>>107496927
But xe is right? It’s bad, x better. Also ywnbaw

>>107493417
trvke

>>107496604
so why are people moving and givin up on 40 years of just work and customization?

>>107497440
They ain't. Everyone that's ever used wayland reverted back to xorg.

>>107497440
There has been a lot of pushing from maintainers and the usual types in Fedora and gnome. Same as systemd really.

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>>107497452
not true, since i started linux on xwayland and it was a buggy fest, then i went to wayland and it was alright, i guess, but i felt it was a bit junky sometimes on few programs. now im for the first time on x11 and it feels much better, everything works, programs and windows dont act strange, my only complain would be the tear that happens when i turn off the compositor.
in another words i didnt move back, i started on wayland

>>107493417
Nocoders have no refutation to this. I've personally tried creating a Wayland app and ran into every issue described here.

>>107497560
DEs with X feel like native programs. DEs with Wayland feel like a web page user interface.

These "wayland sucks" threads are fun to read. The opinions become more and more unhinged and deny reality the more DEs that ship wayland default or wayland only. Who knew that you could induce windows style baby duck syndrome to Linux babies if you made a modern display protocol?

>>107498158
> more DEs
yep. it's increasing its use and decreasing xorg's use. it's a fact (which means only that, use is increasing, it doesn't change the fact it's **technically** faecal trash). red hat is winning unprecedented traction. it will include ALL the other unix-like OSes. Either you do a gnome port or gnome-like DE or, soon, software won't run on it. It has a loophole that would allow KDE (steam) to take the throne. But it looks like it won't happen and un*x will become gnome os.
> modern display protocol
KEK good one anon. It's shit though. Such that the sheer stupidity looks like strategy. But I don't discard dementia either.

Non-programmer here. Does this even matter if you just use something like SDL to draw your windows?

>>107498530
SDL uses wayland or x11 depending on the platform and certain conditions. It could have behavioral differences but obviously a library like that would strive to have roughly the same behavior everywhere.

>>107494783
Stolen valor.
The 99% of wayland was developed in an X window (weston).

>>107498562
Twice the work.
Wayland, among other stupid things, like its existence, causes a lot of unnecessary work.
The SDL team thinks wayland is dogshit. Actually, they *know* it.

>>107494783
In other words, not X11, just related to, among other things, Wayland and X11.

This isn't a humiliation ritual for anyone other than you. XDG isn't inherent to either X11 or Wayland. You just want it to be. The fact that you want it to be in front of all of us is what is embarrassing.

>>107498461
>Either you do a gnome port or gnome-like DE or, soon, software won't run on it.
lolno. all wayland compositors ship xwayland. qt apps and iced rust apps are shown on gnome. they may not respect ssd but they dont respect a lot of things. valve still has in their documentation that if you use gnome and want to use VR, install plasma. gnome has a lot of say in wayland, but it isnt the end all be all of the linux desktop. every DE that has any users however all agree that wayland is the future, and their future to be exact. because even lxqt, budgie, xfce, and cinnamon are working on wayland compositors, and if you want to use their desktop bars and widgets on a wayland compositor right now, they support using them on sway, wayfire, hyprland, etc.

>>107498562
I know that SDL uses wayland (or x11). My point is, if you use SDL and not interface directly with wayland, then do these quirks or shittiness with wayland even matter? Granted I'm speaking out of my ass as a non-programmer, but I would rather just build my application with SDL since it's cross-platform anyway, and just let it interface with wayland without having to worry about it.

Or just let Valve fix it in a couple years just like they're fixing everything else with loonix

>>107498695
There isn't much for Valve to fix with Wayland. It works fine.

>>107498695
>My point is, if you use SDL and not interface directly with wayland, then do these quirks or shittiness with wayland even matter?
if you use SDL for x11 you are making an x11 app. things like scaling on xwayland might be janky depending on how you handle it, if you use multiple windows your app wont have much control over where they spawn on wayland, you will have many other quirks on a wayland compositor that will no doubt lead to bug reports. none of this stops you from using sdl to make an x11 app. SDL3 defaults to preferring wayland but still supports x11, who knows if SDL4 will.

Saying XDG proves Wayland is shit "cause I think that's X11 software" is identical logic to saying X11 proves Linux is shit "cause I think that's Unix software". It is actual identical logic. It just a contrarian teenager noticing something that doesn't mean anything.

Wayland works fine the problem is the power hungry retards in charge that think they can be this autisticlly opinionated while suffocating the alternative by dirty tactics. That's why everyone including Nvidia mocks them publicly and are willing to bully them without remorse. They only have control over the project because Gabe is busy fixing other things on Linux, once the frame is done and the cube is launched they are going to get a fire under their asses because they are still shitting the bed on many things.

>>107498818
did that part really go over your head that badly. come on

>>107498866
>Wayland works fine the problem is the power hungry retards in charge that think they can be this autisticlly opinionated while suffocating the alternative by dirty tactics.
Modernizing things isn't dirty tactics.

Nobody but retards mocks Wayland, btw. Nvidia just didn't care about Wayland until two years ago, and actively support it now. That's something completely different.

>>107498893
That isn't even an inaccurate analogy or anything. That's the exact logic you're arguing.

Even the "unmaintained" Xorg server uses DRM modesetting and libinput now btw, so your "modernization" argument is in shambles, waytrannies

>>107498908
no you literally didn't understand what op was saying. it was a mocking joke. it's not that complicated...

>>107498915
Not an argument.

>>107498926
you're the one arguing a strawman because you lack reading comprehension

>>107498894
How many years and struggle sessions did it take for those mongoloids to simply add a switch for VRR again?

>>107498934
Nobody is fooled by the fact you have identical grammar to OP and you're upset that >>107498818 is true.

>>107498940
About four years. How many years until X11 can support multiple refresh rates?

Anyone can do this.

>>107498982
I see you got the dick far up your ass
I'm going to enjoy those praigs getting Buck broken, the people that actually care about adoption are making moves and they are far bigger than the other entities the Wayland devs used to hide behind. Either they fall in line or what was implied with the frog protocols become a reality and they become irrelevant.
They deserve this
You don't propose yourself as the standard while refusing to do what's needed as the standard. Like I said nobody feels bad for them and many of us take joy in watching them get what they deserve.

>>107499013
Was this drivel machine translated

>>107499054
>can't reply
That's what I thought
If you need to be threatened to do basic shit you deserved to be dragged, especially when you want to be the standard and forced yourself in that position. Is that really a hard concept to grasp?

>>107498611
Source?

>>107499074
I did reply. Was that machine translated? It's stupid nonsense. This is material, what you wrote is actually something humans don't write.

>>107499106
>can't refute facts
>seething
ggs ez

>>107499122
Yes, you are seething because you can't refute facts.
>>107499013
This isn't English.

>>107498672
> xwayland
software will stop being ported to xorg with "wayland's" (aka gnome) success.
> valve has a lot of say in wayland
so much that had to propose an extra official protocol and is still being held down to these days. The fact is: mutter is holding down and everyone is waiting for them. So, in last stance, mutter is dictating the future. Red hat has been winning CONSTANTLY in every dispute. And I see no reason for that to change now.
> wlroots
discarded. it will play along with whatever kde and mutter decide or die. Ports will focus on either GNOME or KDE. Hyprland gave a bit more of attention to it, didn't take long to take the image of nazi.

>>107499077
It has a giant heuristic to try and guess what "wayland" means on your machine. It's clearly not a robust support, but it's the best that can be done. About their view of wayland. I haven't seen the devs saying anything.

>>107499368
Meanwhile in reality, KDE is leading Wayland deployment and is growing in popularity in large part because of that, complaining about a protocol not being instantly adopted like you did is whataboutism, mutter is only king in the enterpriser server space (no, not the enterprise space, the enterprise server space, enterprise doesn't give a shit about mutter anymore than gamers do), and Red Hat isn't "winning", they're just the longest running consistent contributor so it makes sense their needs are met.

Any other stupid hyperbole?

>>107498632
>This isn't a humiliation ritual for anyone other than you.
*cough* xdotools *cough*

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>>107499432

>>107499414
> leading wayland deployment
so? they are forced, in the end, to wait or add an extension despite wayland official decisions. sometimes creating direct conflicts because the official decides to implement in a different way.
> whataboutism
it's logic, it might be hard for you. "wayland" basically means nothing. the stable protocols are basically nothing and the core is 26 functions. If one target wayland, they aren't targeting kde. If one target kwin, they aren't targeting wayland. It's better to target mutter and work on kwin by consequence (which is open to implement other's extensions) than just for kwin. Valve could likely change the scene, but I find it unlikely to happen. Apparently most don't even understand the little tomfoolery that is happening right now.
> red hat isn't winning
in literally EVERY dispute to decide linux's future in software usage. it hadn't lost ONCE.
> stupid hyperbole
It's not a hyperbole. You are simply too dummy or proud to see what is happening.

This cuck is fighting hard to defend wayland

>>107499496
Who?

>>107499368
>discarded. it will play along with whatever kde and mutter decide or die
wlroots(all of them) and hyprland are the only compositors that have protocols that gnome doesnt have. and kde works with wlroots.
>valve has a lot of say in wayland
literally not what i said, reread it, valve has a small compositor so is a voting member of freedesktop, but its not really a desktop compositor so they dont even throw their weight around much.
>software will stop being ported to xorg
correct, not due to gnomes success though. due to it being a broken old shitter of a piece of software that is hard to maintain and add new features to without breaking even more. xwayland is for compatibility with old software. future software needs to be made for wayland.

>>107499469
>so? they are forced
No.
>it's logic,
It's whataboutism. The rest of your bullshit is literally just that. KDE is easily the most popular DE for Wayland, if anything. That's why even your vaunted Red Hat/IBM boogieman is prioritizing them in the past six months.
>in literally EVERY dispute to decide linux's future in software usage. it hadn't lost ONCE.
In literally a sentence where EVERYTHING YOU SAID isn't true it's just another example of you just being mad Red Hat invested in Wayland years ago. That's it. You're arguing with the brick wall of reality where investing in things means you're well set up in those things. For normal reasons, not mysterious, arbitrary, unknowable ones that only you figured out. There's no "losing", cause it's not an argument, you just want it to be one.
>It's not a hyperbole. You are simply too dummy or proud to see what is happening.
Retard.

>>107499520
> and kde works with wlroots.
not completely. it doesn't have ALL wlroots extensions, it has some. And wlroots won't have all kwin's extensions.
> due to it being a broken old shitter of a piece of software that is hard to maintain and add new features to without breaking even more
wayland is equally feces. yet people are porting to "it" (aka an specific compositor). it has nothing to do with technical merits.
>>107499522
> It's whataboutism
It's logic. Kwin is not "wayland". The closest to "wayland" is mutter. If kwin spread "wayland" usage, people will port focusing the protocols. Which are quite in pair with mutter (same hostility toward extensions and slowness). If you gonna consider extensions, better to go with mutter, since kde will implement them but not the contrary (wlroots is a meme, it's not a real player, despite being the one that basically started it all).
> being mad Red Hat invested in Wayland years ago
I'm not mad. I don't care. I'm just stating a fact.
> you just want it to be
Nah. I would be satisfied with the explanation of "dementia" too. It's shit, it creates incompatibility, and opens a gap to take unprecedented traction. However such scenario was merely a lucky coincidence, all the demerits were just lack of competency (and the chance of taking advantage won't be taken because they are too stupid to see it). For me looks just as sound.
> retard
Thanks for clarifying it's, primarily, dumminess. It was an honest doubt of mine until now.

>the cuck

waybros...

>>107495703
the features are there, but each client needs to handle the animation timing on its own. unless it's GTK or Qt app, I doubt it will work correctly.
Recently a server-side cursor protocol appeared and got well adopten (even by Gnome lol) so I hope it handles animated cursors well on server-side?

>>107500940
> The feature are there
> Wayland Core
> Presentation Time
> Viewporter
> XDG shell
Actually...

>>107495949
the main problem with xlib is that everything is synchronous

>>107499452
>the ability to automate literally anything is "fucking nothing"
>i i it's not even that useful
>*makes shittier ydotool that can't even*
>t t those grapes were sour anyways
lol, cope wayfag

>>107498029
good analogy, everything now seems better, natively supported.
>>107500940
>each client needs to handle the animation timing on its own
uh, youre right. they cant implement it at its core because its just a protocol, it will always be fragmented since every DE has its own implemetion, right?