https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:philosophy:rust_issues

>>107513029
What makes Rust worse for the end-user?

>>107513101
They are transitioning into a BSD distribution.

>>107513142
>https://wiki.hyperbola.info/doku.php?id=en:philosophy:rust_issues

>>107513185
That doesn't answer the question. Is Rust software slower, less featured, or overall less useful for end users?

>>107513193
>End user control for controlling programs, languages, compilers doesn't make it worse?
Are you serious? retarded, perchance?

>>107513206
End users don't use those things. They download a web browser and browse the web; is my web browsing experience slower, less featured, or otherwise less useful on account of Rust? What about editing documents to send to coworkers—is that undertaking encumbered by Rust?

>>107513225
>End users don't modify their systems and create the entire open source community.
I see you've chosen retarded.

>>107513326
End users are recipients of existing compiled software. You still haven't answered the question, by the way.

>>107513334
The question is answered. You're just too retarded to see that your retarded limited definition only works for end users of proprietary software. The point of open source in it's entirety is end user control.

>>107513387
Free software has end users as well...end users are just not the ones compiling it let alone programming for it. Stallman even points out whenever he describes the four freedoms that non-programmers benefit from free software because they can still contribute feedback/ideas that any programmer can take upon themselves to implement. You have yet to explain why Rust impedes on this, let alone on the quality of the end user experience.

>>107513412
Rust impedes from corporate control to the limiting of forking software. As well as distribution of alternate software that modifies core components.
Second, just because one use case is non-programmers ability to contribute, it does not neglect the original end user control from a programmer, contributor, or otherwise technically inclined end user.
Again, your argument benefits the end user of proprietary while offering less control to the point of corporate control over the codebase.
Your definition is limited based on a small subset of end user. Just like this post >>107513387 said. Having to repeat the same point on repeat because you're too retarded to understand is like talking to a brick wall.

>>107513450
>corporate control to the limiting of forking software
The Rust for Linux project is licensed under GPL 2.0
>Your definition is limited based on a small subset of end user
No, it is THE whole definition of an end user; the moment you start programming and compiling shit yourself, you become a software engineer.

>>107513473
>GPL 2.0 relatively small and very clearly communicated to end-users
K.
>end user
>The ultimate consumer of a product, especially the one for whom the product has been designed.
>The final consumer of a product; the intended recipient or user.
If you add mayonnaise to a sandwich before you eat it, does that make you a restaurateur or a chef?

Rust free desktop Linux is basically impossible because of gnome niggers.
>say hello to librsvg and its >250 crate dependencies because gnome niggers were too stupid to write an SVG library without dozens of CVEs
Even KDE managed that.

I think it is more important to keep existing alternatives alive and well and improve them, and to foster new alternatives that are independent and also much better technically than Rust.
I don't see the point in preventing Rust programs from being used. It's more important to prevent unfair competition, like Rust cultists harassing competitors and anyone who dares to not pick Rust for their new projects or rewrites, or trying to enshrine into law what languages may or may not be used based on lies, incompetence and corruption.

>>107513519
Economists would consider mayonnaise an end good since it is a product directly consumed rather than an input used to create other goods. Even if you add mayonnaise to a sandwich, you are still consuming the mayonnaise as the final good that has been sold to you. A chicken meanwhile is an intermediate good towards the production of mayonnaise, so somebody making mayonnaise from a chicken's eggs could be a restaurateur or a chef.

>>107513142
pain in the ass too bootstrap

>>107513029
alpine

>>107513142
Memory unsafety.
https://materialize.com/blog/rust-concurrency-bug-unbounded-channels/

>>107513142
It probably contains Ken Thomson hack, it's no coincidence that it's basically impossible to bootstrap without already having a rustcc. The rust people are mad that rust will be added as a frontend to gcc because they might get exposed.

>>107513591
>Focuses on the mayonnaise
You do realize that not all restaurants nor delicatessens (like dependencies) make their own mayonnaise, so even your retarded focus on the wrong part of the analogy, fails to hold water. Making mayonnaise, especially as used in the analogy both as an input and end product. Regardless, one could use a second source for code to mash together to end products, much like pre-written scripts to modify said code.
Either way, your retardation or bad faith is in every post you make, thus pointless conversation is pointless. see >>107513326
Additionally, saying that a software engineer or an open source project isn't an end user is an odd position to take, considering the entire roots of open source.

>>107513688
Since we cannot agree on a definition of "end user", I'll rephrase the question:
What makes Rust worse at runtime?

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>>107513694
>What makes Rust worse at runtime?
cult-like belief that all bugs are eliminated and you will never have to test anything, e.g. cloudflare incident where the proxy is written in Rust so it will NEVER take down whole internet for a few hours.

>>107513699
That sounds like a problem with the programmers and not the actual language

>>107513334
>are recipients of existing compiled software
non-free and anti-user response, as expected from a cultist, just a reminder: most software I use, I actively patch to fix bugs and add new features that nobody else needs or wants, how do I do that when you yourself admitted to be anti-freedom and expecting me to just consume mystery binary that's unauditable?
>>107513715
it sounds like you are coping, considering only total retards would use rust, since that is who it was designed for

>>107513683
Some people in the Rust ecosystem disparages gccrs.
https://old.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/12y85ww/gcc_13_and_the_state_of_gccrs/
>It's the opposite: gccrs is often disparaged (in this very [Rust forum] thread there is people saying gccrs is a waste of time), and I've never, ever seen anyone talk about rustc_codegen_gcc like that.

>>107513732
>mystery binary that's unauditable?
The free software community will audit it for me. You do realise that somebody might want to use free software because it is just superior to proprietary software?

>>107513743
is the free software community in the room with us right now?

>>107513748
Given that you compile your own software and actively patch to fix bugs and add new features, yes!

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>>107513672
So software made for C/C++ catches bugs that Rust cannot, why not skip the bloat and use "C/C++"?

>>107513750
I don't see myself doing that for rust toy rewrites of anything anytime soon.

>>107513683
>>107513742
From 3 years ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/12y85ww/comment/jhroamo/
>A while ago someone wrote an article calling on the community to stop GCC-RS and some heeded the call.
>Fortunately and unfortunately, the negativity here is a vast improvement to how it was a while ago. That's why you see some people looking for an "in" to show how "bad" they are. They need to do that after mods had to clarify that GCC-RS are still part of the Rust community, and the community's bad-faith assumptions were inappropriate.

Steve Klabnik, the mentally ill, medicated, infamous liar, will of course downplay and lie about this, as is his wont.

>>107513769
>medicated
peer reviewed study on this one?

>>107513755
ASan, like Miri for Rust, cannot catch everything. ASan has different properties than Miri, but like Miri, it is severely limited in what it can catch, and it is generally not feasible nor advisable and possibly not safe to include it in production.
For an example of some of the drawbacks of Miri's approach, see https://zackoverflow.dev/writing/unsafe-rust-vs-zig/ .
If you want something runtime, there is Fil-C. But Fil-C had several drawbacks as well, and I don't know much about it.

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Death to rustrannies

>>107513142
L-Look, that's not important here. What's important is my FEELINGS, okay.

>>107513798
It can catch more than rust does.

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>>107513776
Steve Klabnik admitted to having clinical depression.
Wikipedia:
>Major depressive disorder (MDD), also known as clinical depression, is a mental disorder[10]
And even also "passive suicidal ideation".
I cannot find any specific references to medication, but a lot of posts were also deleted by the lobste.rs moderators.
https://lobste.rs/s/ayncvk/ai_is_writing_90_code#c_maixvs

>>107513821
I wouldn't like to rely on neither ASan in C, C++ or Rust, or Miri in Rust. They can be good complementary tools, as long as one is disciplined and do not rely on them, but relying on them is not good.

>>107513755
Because rust is a typical nu lang that starts with a couple good ideas and markets them aggressively to distract from the real aim of the language, which is pushing a dozen personal preferences on programmers. In rust’s case, that’s BSD license cultism, using an npm clone for dependency management, less readability than C++ and astroturfing llvm.

The reality is that if rust really was just C with the borrow checker and a better stdlib, it would have effortlessly replaced C in the majority of greenfield projects like pipewire did pulseaudio. The shilling and the extreme reaction is the consequence of the project being driven by politics instead of engineering.
>inb4 akshually rust is supposed to replace C++ and/or go
rustniggers say it’s meant to replace a different language every thread.

>>107513885
And I'm asking for proof that he took his meds.

>>107513898
>as long as one is disciplined
I'm disciplined enough to avoid bugs in C

>>107513957
>rustniggers say it’s meant to replace a different language every thread.
I never saw a single rust shill who can argue in good faith to begin with.
I know some jews irl who are easier to talk to.

>>107513029
there's always FreeBSD, they seem to be safe from the Rust and Wayland stuff, for now.

>>107513885
I'd be depressed too if I had to work with rust

>>107514049
What do you mean chud, rust is fun to work with

>>107513970
Are you claiming that he had medication, yet decided to not take it?

>>107514152
No, I think it's much worse than that.
Doctors cannot deny treatment to trannies just because they're men pretending to be women, so it logically follows that being such a protected class, can simply not buy and not take their meds.

>>107513541
I don't use svg
what would I miss? I haven't had a problem to this day.

>>107513683
>The rust people are mad that rust will be added as a frontend to gcc
[citation needed]

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>>107513776
>>107513970
Steve Klabnik/you deleted his/your Twitter account, lots of deleted posts on lobste.rs.

Though in this image he "knows someone", yet has intimate knowledge of that "someone" and that person's medical history himself, as if that "someone" is himself. And also discusses some drug called Prozac against depression.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5499083
https://web.archive.org/web/20210125174127/https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5499083
Combine that with Steve Klabnik himself admitting to having "clinical depression" and "passive suicidal ideation" >>107513885 .

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>>107514266
Does this look like a reasonable thing to ask unless you're mentally ill and have a need to have a monopoly over everyone using the language you shill so hard?

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>>107513957
>which is pushing a dozen personal preferences on programmers.
Programming languages are not a person, they don't have personal preferences.

>In rust’s case, that’s BSD license cultism,
BSD is rather rare license. Most Rust projects use MIT, which is the most popular FOSS license.

>using an npm clone for dependency management
Rust dependency manager is not much different from any other modem programming language.

>less readability than C++
This is just skill issue. I would argue pic related is less readable than any Rust code, including stdlib code.

Your whole point makes little sense.

>>107514303
>The rust people are mad that rust will be added as a frontend to gcc
>here is a screenshot of someone asking a question of hacker news
???

>>107513982
There are different levels of discipline and related costs, difficulty, etc. Some levels of discipline are significantly more cost-efficient than others, or easier, etc. And a reasonable level of discipline is not guaranteed to be sufficient in every case for every task. It depends on a lot of different specifics.

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>>107514316
Why would it be a bad idea to do this?

>>107514162
Steve Klabnik, please stop being mentally ill, or at least spare others from your mental illness.

>>107514266
>>107514316
Some, but not all >>107513769

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What significant cons are there?

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What did they mean by this?

>>107514317
Programming in C is more cost efficient than programming in Rust.

>>107514318
>The rust people are mad that rust will be added as a frontend to gcc
>some random comment on hacker news saying "I think it's probably bad idea"
Lmao what

>>107514347
It depends severely on the use case, project, and lots of other things.
For instance, if I had to choose between C and Rust, and the project was about a tiny toy compiler, that would be thrown away after a few months, with no real performance requirements, I [spoiler]would try to get away with using Scala[/spoiler] use Rust, simply because Rust has discriminated unions and good pattern matching support (Rust's pattern matching has significant issues, but it is still good and one of the better aspects of the language), and discriminated unions and pattern matching are a very good fit for ASTs that do not have production compiler requirements.

>>107514352
>>107513769

>>107514370
It doesn't, Rust always wastes more time for no real gain.

>>107514352
why do you need to defend this if it's not true btw

>>107514409
Steve Klabnik the Rust evangelist, lay off your mentally ill controlled opposition games.

>>107514424
You don't have to state your full name in every post, it's an anonymous site.

>>107514431
>>107514424

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>>107514458
> >>107514424
>>107514431

>>107514416
Defend what, I just asked for source of his claim.

>>107514375
>The rust people are mad that rust will be added as a frontend to gcc
>some random comment on reddit talking about some other random person who wrote some article some time ago
Lmao what.

>>107514469
>>107514424

>>107514521
>>107513769

>>107514537
That's the post I was referring to, yes.

>>107514505
Your demented mind is the source of seethe against real programmers.

>>107514556
Huh, ok

>>107514541
>>107513769

>>107514565
?

>>107514574
>>107513769

>>107513101
Fuck that shit (rust). How the ever living fuck did that get past stallman's toe-cheese detectors??

>>107514626
they vaxxed him and he was battling with cancer

>>107513029
I installed Slackware without Rust, it is in the d folder so when the developer tools comes up just uncheck rust and if won't install and so far no problems without rust

Not sure about other distros, most distros won't let you pick through individual packages to unselect what you don't want

>>107514310
All I needed to see kek
>BSD is rather rare license. Most Rust projects use MIT, which is the most popular FOSS license.
BSD and MIT are both permissive licenses you pilpuling ESL. The rust ecosystem is unique in using permissive licensing nearly 100% of the time. The rust community hates the GPL, GNU and GCC and you had to deliberately ignore several posts itt about that to make your abominable shill post. Even Go made by a company that hates and fears the (A)GPL isn’t that bad.

python,2095,PSF-2.0
ghc-libs,1231,custom
zlib,676,Zlib
openssl,505,Apache-2.0
libx11,482,MIT AND X11
ruby,433,BSD-2-Clause
libxml2,298,MIT
libglvnd,286,custom:BSD-like
curl,263,MIT
libpng,252,custom
libjpeg-turbo,229,BSD-3-Clause|IJG
ncurses,210,MIT-open-group
sqlite,207,LicenseRef-Sqlite
wayland,174,MIT
fontconfig,172,HPND AND Unicode-DFS-2016
libxcb,165,X11
bzip2,138,BSD
icu,121,LicenseRef-Unicode-3.0|BSD-2-Clause|BSD-3-Clause|NAIST-2003
firefox,108,MPL-2.0
expat,105,MIT
sdl2-compat,98,Zlib
libdrm,96,MIT
pcre2,96,BSD-2-Clause|BSD-3-Clause WITH PCRE2-exception
boost-libs,91,BSL-1.0
lcms2,90,MIT
vim,83,custom:vim
libtiff,82,libtiff
harfbuzz,82,MIT
jdk21-openjdk,81,LicenseRef-Java
lua,80,MIT
libvorbis,77,BSD-3-Clause
pixman,75,MIT
mesa,73,MIT AND BSD-3-Clause AND SGI-B-2.0
libarchive,73,BSD-2-Clause
libwebp,69,BSD-3-Clause
graphene,67,MIT
libpcap,66,BSD-3-Clause
libxslt,65,MIT
nodejs,64,MIT
nss,63,MPL-2.0
rust,61,Apache-2.0 OR MIT
glu,55,SGI-B-2.0|MIT
protobuf,54,BSD-3-Clause
krb5,53,custom
php,52,PHP-3.01
libffi,52,MIT
xdg-utils,51,MIT
ttf-dejavu,50,custom
rocm-core,50,MIT
glew,50,LicenseRef-glew
abseil-cpp,50,Apache-2.0
libevent,50,BSD
libsamplerate,49,BSD
libpipewire,49,MIT
giflib,47,MIT
vulkan-icd-loader,46,Apache-2.0
libsasl,46,BSD-3-Clause-Attribution
libepoxy,43,MIT
json-c,43,MIT
ttf-liberation,42,custom:OFL
ttf-roboto,41,OFL-1.1
noto-fonts,41,OFL-1.1-no-RFN
libinput,41,MIT
postgresql-libs,39,PostgreSQL
opus,39,BSD-3-Clause
libxkbcommon-x11,39,MIT
libuv,39,custom
libogg,39,BSD
libcups,39,Apache-2.0 WITH LLVM-exception AND BSD-3-Clause AND Zlib AND BSD-2-Clause
blas-openblas,39,BSD
libunwind,38,MIT
libsodium,38,custom:ISC
ttf-bitstream-vera,37,custom
libxss,37,X11
erlang-core,37,Apache-2.0
file,37,custom
ttf-input,36,custom
libxft,36,HPND-sell-variant
jansson,36,MIT
brotli,36,MIT
snappy,35,BSD-3-Clause
libva,35,MIT
openjpeg2,34,BSD-2-Clause|MIT
neovim,33,Apache-2.0|LicenseRef-vim
popt,33,custom
libldap,33,custom
onetbb,32,Apache-2.0

>>107516638
Agreed.

In >>107516758 is a selected/filtered list of some non-GPL software that may have already snuck into your system.

I URGE ALL MY GNU HOMIES TO FORCE-REMOVE ALL THESE PACKAGES FROM THEIR SYSTEMS RIGHT NOW.

CUT THE CANCER BEFORE IT SPREADS FURTHER.

Half of these are probably pozzed rust shit written by trannies hired by DEI programs.

Full list with at least three direct dependants is at:
https://0x0.st/K9Dz.csv

This is from the Arch repos. Adjust accordingly for other distros.

Thank you for your attention to this matter!

>>107514310
Also to deal with the rest of the lies
>Programming languages are not a person, they don't have personal preferences
Programming languages are made by people with preferences to enforce. Like how the Mozilla crew that created rust did it to be exclusionary and political by their own admission.
https://old.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/6ewjt5/question_about_rusts_odd_code_of_conduct/
>Rust dependency manager is not much different from any other modern programming language.
No. Crates.io is similar to npm because rust programmers have a culture of using dozens to hundreds of micodependencies in projects, which massively increases the risk of typo squatting and using malicious, unaudited source code or simply abandoned projects. Unfortunately jeethub that handles your modern dependency management is down again so I’ll have to estimate here based on portage and local manifests.
>librsvg
284 crates
>amdgou_top
310 crates
>oxipng
65 crates
>skill issue
Fix your skill issue with the English language first.

>>107516982
*that’s the only rust software I use on my computer. Put together they have crate deps equal to more than half of the packages on my system.
Also abandonware is a serious issue, Tarmageddon was only a few months ago.

>>107516638
>The rust ecosystem is unique in using permissive licensing nearly 100% of the time.
Now check out JavaScript, Python and Go repos.

>>107513142
Its name is rust, you don't want that in a machine

This is just a variant of making a Linux distro without GNU software to troll the "GNU/Linux" people.

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>>107513742
>"rewrite it in Rust!"
>"no! not that way!"

still not using rust

>>107514310
>>107516638
>>107516776
>>107516982
selfposting?

>>107513029
I'll make the logo!

>>107516982
>which massively increases the risk of typo squatting and using malicious, unaudited source code or simply abandoned projects.
Large battery-included projects are even worse in this department because they tend to duplicate code and when they get abandoned it's much harder to find someone who will be willing to maintain large code bade like that. It's because of this Unix philosophy Linux is so customizable and persistent. Everything being modular and compostable means that it's easy to replace old abandoned projects with newer alternatives.

>>107519361
The unix philosophy is shit and go is right to have a massive standard library. Small tools to solve one problem are generally bad and a cope dating back to mainframes with widely disparate needs and hardware. The problem is that batteries included often turns into a cancer too, like systemd. You need domain specific solutions with well defined boundaries.

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>(we == fools)

>>107513142
compiling firefox takes 8 hours solely because of rust

>>107519802
even though firefox takes over a day on my hardware

>>107513142
Unwrap broke the internet:
https://blog.cloudflare.com/18-november-2025-outage/

>>107513715
>> Bug in C. Problem is C.
>> Bug in Rust. Problem is programmers.
Genius.

>>107519620
>The unix philosophy is shit
Works on my machine