>>107545174
shabbat shalom

>>107545188
You trying to call me Jewish?

>>107545174
just keep writing software in C, retard
>wahhh people are using rust!
the software written in C for the last 50 years hasn't disappeared
you can choose to use it

>>107545188
thanks, heil hitler

>>107545332
>Reichsbürgers that are genuinely threatening make up less than 5% of the movement and the movement is so obscure that it doesn't matter but... we must crush them!
>Rust is pushed by NSA globally but... Just ignore it!

>>107545332
The underlying assertion is that Rust is a fedslop cyber weapon built on Ken Thompson's "Trusting Trust."
>>107545188
I didn't even check 'em. Well fuck, I've been gassed.

>>107545351
>Ken Thompson's "Trusting Trust."
meds

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>>107545382

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>>107545387

>>107545387
>doubly linked list
>efficient

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>>107545398

>>107545401
>>107545387

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>>107545404

>>107545422
>normal police
>SWAT
dementia is really kickin in unc

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Jeremy Bicha.
>SEX BAT BY JUVEN/VCTM UNDER 12; F.S. 794.011(2) (PRINCIPAL - 2 COUNTS)
Pedophile.
Rust developer.
PPA for Rust.
https://launchpad.net/~jbicha/+archive/ubuntu/rust

Mental health, pronouns and alter egos are at the very least trends in Rust. Also as the community Rust Discord server goes.

Hector Martin.
Insisting that Asahi Lina is not his alter ego.

https://aturon.github.io/tech/2019/06/25/back-in-the-saddle/

https://fasterthanli.me/articles/state-of-the-fasterthanlime-2024
https://fasterthanli.me/articles/that-health-is-mental

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>>107545434
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeremyBicha
>I am a United States Navy Veteran and spent 2007-2010 living in Bahrain. I currently live in Florida. I joined Canonical in 2022 but my Ubuntu story started much earlier.

https://wng.org/articles/the-high-cost-of-negligence-1617309216
>Florida prosecutors weren’t forgetting: The U.S. Navy discharged Jeremy, and when he reached U.S. soil, authorities arrested him. He eventually pleaded no contest to two counts of sexual battery on a child under 12 while he was under 18. His defense attorney asked for less than a year in the county jail. The prosecutor asked for 15 years in state prison.

>>107545427
>>107545422

>>107545434
>>107545443
>>107545450
You are a schizophrenic lunatic.

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>>107545174
All of the seethe Rust causes is laughable. It's just another tool to make fast software, this time with beefed up and opinionated compile-time type system. Why are people so butthurt about it? The opinionated part which makes some data structures hard to implement?

>>107545174
>escape from and contain the rust virus
the only thing wrong with Rust is that you can't comprehend it

>>107545467
No, it's a supply chain attack driven by propaganda.

>>107545463
Wrong, you are, I am not. >>107545434 >>107545443

>>107545476
Can you elaborate? I'm not deeply familiar with the petty politics around the language.

>>107545485
You are living with a schizophrenic lunacy syndrome.

>>107545488
Read the rust book. That's a fedslop cyberweapon. They emphasize security and safety in their rhetoric, but politically position themselves into as many important places as possible through bullying instead of technical merit. That's social engineering.

>>107545174
fork linux for starter

>>107545515
>reading books
are you gay?

>>107545515
Like full-band from ace combat 7 said, "Intelligence is all about getting access."

>>107545515
>feds
>trying to get into important positions
new cognitive dissonance level unlocked
a daily occurrence in this bottomless barrel of intellect

>>107545515
>Read the rust book.
I'm currently doing that, which is why I'm in the thread. As far as I understand it at the moment, bunch of people are willing to have the trade-off of more consistently removing some categories of shitty bugs for giving up some freedom to implement trickier data structures. Is your issue more with Cargo and lack of a static spec then?

>>107545467
It's a confluence of factors. The language is very opinionated, yes, but Rust users are extremely invasive and will take over existing projects. Also trannies and shit.

>>107545550
Both sides are retarded as always.
I'm Jewish if that matters.

>>107545553
if you're struggling to understand the anti-rust dynamic, this should help:
https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/107168629/#q107170768

>>107545550
It's a fedslop language. Not a language "run by the feds." Ideology self-replicates.

>>107545174
It will go into version hell when The Rust Team decides they have enough programs captive.

>>107545188
>dubs
KEK

>>107545564
expand

>>107545563
I'm struggling even more now.

>>107545572
You don't need to be a CIA member to contribute to rust. That doesn't mean that the feds didn't come up with the idea or don't have means of covertly exerting control over certain aspects of the project.

>>107545563
So you think if Ada became popular instead of Rust, people have similar brigading against it on the grounds of being secure to use by the masses?

>>107545576
That's because that was a zog shill pretending to shill against zog shills. Rust is literally hasbara if it was a programming language.

>>107545586
Sorry I have no idea what a hasbara is and no, I'm not going to look it up.

>>107545592
Tactical deception.
Hasbara is word Mossad uses for tactical deception.

>>107545562
your jewishness is only relevant if you're zog and/or a part of the temporary entity.

>>107545560
>but Rust users are extremely invasive and will take over existing projects.
I don't think that's very surprising when it comes to mature "critical software", where the only actual bugs are probably the rare data races or similar you ought to find with fuzzing. If Rust promises to eliminate those, that's an enginnering trade-off waiting to happen.

I'm fairly sure type systems will only become more prominent over the time for how useful they are, be it Rust or something else later on. They'll end up gobbling up the commonly used infra for the hardening properties.

>>107545614
A language that allows formal proofing in its type system makes it easier for compilers to optimize the code so one day cnilecucks will give up writing their slop in C just like they already gave up writing their own compiler in it to C++ lmao.

>>107545614
I love type system shit but rust's is pretty trash. I don't hate the principle of something better coming along but Rust ain't it.

>>107545614
Not how he abstracts out the specific political events leading to Rust's adoption into specific projects with a grand narrative fallacy. That's hasbara. Tactical deception in plain view.

>>107545578
where did the ideology talk go?
what aspects of the project?
what part of this covert exertion uniquely applies to rust? and is it rust (the language) or rust (the implementation)? and what parts of either specifically?
also who are the "feds"? do chinks who use rust extensively know about this?

>>107545622
Name one wrong thing with Rust's type system.
Even in the doubly linked list case, it made me realize that I can save 8 bytes per node by using a pair of u32 rather than 2 pointers, and I'd actually do the same in C++ if I had to write new code today.
It's only Cniles that clutch their double real pointer for some reason.

>>107545635
> ideology talk
You're only bringing this up because you want to make it seem like I stopped talking about it. Weird.
> aspects
What aspects they are doesn't matter as much as they are certain.
> what part
You would need insider information, likely only known to high-level individual in the project waiting to exploit their access, as well as whomever they might report to.

>>107545585
maybe. maybe not.
entertaining hypotheticals is not good use of brain cells.
incidentally, what's not hypothetical is the fact that ADA Core (a commercial entity) itself ran FUD campaigns against Rust while simultaneously trying to win the Rust side of the "we will give your bureaucrats papers to tell them the tool is good for big money" market.

>>107545174
learn it, build some things with it, master it, and then know enough about it to properly criticize it.
just like religions, the best way to fight against them is to know more than those that preach it.

>>107545379
>>107545351
you can boostrap the compiler yourself so eh.

>>107545640
Monomorphised generics is a reasonable decision for a syspl but unfortunately implies no rank n polymorphism which also means no existentials, gadts, or polymorphic recursion. Missing these features implies a greater reliance on trait objects but these are arbitrarily crippled too. But then it also fails to capitalise on the advantages of monomorphisation like compile time duck typing and specialisation.
It fails to satisfy either functional programmers or sepplesfags.

>>107545678
i accept your concession

>>107545700
There is no concession.

>>107545696
see: https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2018/bootstrapping-rust/
building from g++

>>107545700
hi jera

>>107545704
you should be thankful i didn't mention the markdown quotes llm tard

>>107545475
> the only thing wrong with Rust is that you can't comprehend it
which is a good thing, fences off browns

>>107545622
Are there better options with a critical mass behind them at the moment from a practical standpoint? I'd get being averse of Rust back in like 2018 when it was just another niche language, but now even the linux kernel has some Rust in it. For me it seems to be the next language that people have to put up with despite the warts, since the alternatives are either too low in adoption or simply worse.

>>107545722
What makes you think I used an llm? Literacy?

>>107545726
No, that's kind of the problem.

>>107545698
I'm a C++ programmer and I don't understand a single word in your niggerbabble soup, Rust works just fine.

>>107545726
Using the forced adoption of rust as the basis for its legitimacy, rather than engineering improvements in the finished product. Without these improvements, they fall back on ideological narratives explained to them in the rust book. That's tactical deception. Ideology self-replicates.

>>107545715
It's Jerad to you, Rajesh.

>>107545756
rust is an objectively better language than cpp though.
it has many things that are less than ideal for sure, but there is no arguing that it is better.

>>107545759
lol

>>107545759
Thought termination. That's tactical deception. No inquiry shall live here.

>>107545757
that's the only identifier i had for you with your jera.rs file
are you actually jewish ?

>>107545767
i enjoy good criticism you know, there are legit things that are not great with rust, and it's not the "muh unwrap" spamming nonsense.

still, imo that's the best thing we have currently.

>>107545772
unwrap by far is the biggest problem.

>>107545772
> implying my criticism is illegitimate without any argument
That's tactical deception.

>>107545756
The incremental engineering improvements are there. A big part of engineering is cooperation too, which is why adoption is something to consider, forced or not. Would you prefer to wait for a perfect language instead before moving on from current tools?

>>107545781
I would prefer to wait for a better language before moving on from current tools.

>>107545779
You probably meant whataboutism.

>>107545781
> Would you prefer to wait for a perfect language instead before moving on from current tools?
False dillemma
Hasbara

>>107545787
The point is that shills use fallacies to deceive people, tactically. I thought that would be obvious.

>>107545800
No, it's not obvious to me, considering I'm not well versed in what you're doing right now even if I can tell that it's nothing of value to anyone.

>>107545804
Here come the ad-homs.

>>107545786
What makes Rust not a better tool? I guess this depends on what the tools optimize for, so what I'm asking is how doesn't Rust improve the software it targets, which I think excludes video games for example.

>>107545811
You have no technical knowledge so you screech from /pol/ angle, feel free to do exactly that in >>>/pol/ because I don't care.

>>107545818
Technical expertise isn't necessary to identify propaganda. It actually hurts in a lot of cases.

>>107545174
If it's really so bad it will implode by itself.

>>107545816
Rust doesn't improve the software it targets because it doesn't make programmers intelligent. In fact it does the opposite.
Software that truly needs Rust would ban panics and crates.io

>>107545822
I can tell that you truly believe that, as a top 10% programmer myself, I see no issue with average midwit being forced to use Rust though, it's nothing new, we already created Java, Python, Go... You know why? The answer is midwits.

Where do I find linux mailing lists for rust?

>>107545826
>Rust doesn't improve the software it targets because it doesn't make programmers intelligent. In fact it does the opposite.
I don't follow. Do you imply the type system handholding?

>>107545831
Top 10% doctors got paid to murder their patients with remdesivir.

>>107545781
>Would you prefer to wait for a perfect language instead before moving on from current tools?
If current tools got us here, they can’t be that bad. The problem with rust is that we get endless rewrites of working projects (invariably with permissive licenses) because it allegedly fixes/prevents issue X, but there is no explanation of why you can’t fix that issue in the C code or whatever. There are cases where rewriting things make sense because you can’t add or fix things in projects as consumers depend on certain behaviour etc, but we never see these arguments. It’s “C is bad now mmmkay” or occasionally “rust appears popular on GitHub, so RIIR will attract new devs”. It’s at the intellectual level of “we need a COC because we do”.

>>107545831
9/10 doctors recommend shoving camel cigarettes up your ass backwars.

>>107545840
I imply the pretense that Rust can make midwits write good code.
The crates.io slop problem proves that language isn't the problem.
>>107545841
>>107545848
I'm not american and my doctors don't do that, not my country, not my problem.

>>107545851
> ignoring the epistemic vacuum
hasbara

>>107545843
>If current tools got us here, they can’t be that bad.
But they are.
GCC gave up on C, it requires C++ to compile beyond version 4.9 or something.
LLVM is alternative C++ compiler, and it's biggest selling point right now is that it is primary backend for rustc.
I would never use LLVM if I didn't want to try Rust. And you know what's coming next? gccrs project will make Rust compile in GCC. And one day, for no reason at all, new GCC code will begin being written in Rust. Your Cnile slop will require Rust to compile.

>>107545855
>epistemic vacuum
Sorry but I don't even attempt to engage in good faith arguments if buzzwords are used.

>>107545843
>but there is no explanation of why you can’t fix that issue in the C code or whatever.
How I see it is that the compiler checks are thought to be fool proof, as opposed to C depending on being meticulate. Kinda like a maths proof vs. "we checked all cases we could think of". Now is the compiler actually that infallible, I don't know.

>>107545877
>is the compiler actually that infallible
Nothing is infallible, but giving up and not trying to at all is even more retarded. That's some learned helplessless level of shit.

>>107545876
You must be an expert as shoving cigarettes up your ass. When they tell you to do it backwards, you know it's because it feels nicer and is a more convenient, satisfying experience. Anybody else wouldn't get it, but you're an expert.

>>107545894
I never smoked a cigarette in my life and I didn't need to ask a doctor about it.

>>107545883
I don't disagree. As long as it's better than a human in practice, it's an impromevent. This whole discussion reminds me of guns being introduced to wars, letting less fit and skilled to be more effective to the chagrin of the veterans.

>>107545905
It's a shame you're so maladapted. Your brain confused crying like an infant and saying something that an adult would.

>>107545916
So can you criticize Rust at all or are you just a demented cnile crying that people who actually build things are moving on?

>>107545861
The lack of self-awareness and permeating paranoia about C users in this post is why people find /pol/ schizos less disruptive.

>>107545927
I am. You just take personal incredulity with the basis of my criticism.

>>107545915
It's not better than a human but it allows a human to encode rules into the public API that compiler will enforce if a human wrote it correctly and that's a win.
>>107545929
Don't worry, I'm not paranoid at all about subhumans who used to shit on C++ twice as hard as they do on Rust now. C++ won and now all relevant C code requires C++ code to build, and same thing will happen with Rust.

>>107545877
The compiler isn’t really relevant here. Rust proponents who latch onto a project say that the original code must have X, Y, and Z issues because it’s not written in rust. They offer no actual evidence and demand that battle tested code is replaced with new code by new developers, who could easily introduce novel bugs even if rust eliminates most memory bugs. That C is broken and insecure and rust fixes everything is seen as axiomatic. The only thing that actually seems to change after rust gets into a project is compile times and the license.

>>107545927
>>107545932
and that's hasbara

>>107545174
Get estrogen out of the water supply.

>>107545774
> unwrap by far is the biggest problem.
tell me you don't know rust without telling me

>>107545779
you haven't given any so far though.

>>107545976
You're right anon, unwrap isn't the problem, midwits like you who use it are.

>>107545174
>What can be done to escape from and contain the rust virus?
disband the nsa

>>107545978
That's just a blatant lie.
That's hasbara.
And this further evidences my argument.
Fedslop language protected by propaganda and ideological brainwashing, gaining access to critical projects in order to compromise them. It really is a foolproof inductive argument as their actions continually affirm it with both simple rhetoric and criminal psychology.

>>107545990
i don't, you don't know what i do or doesn't.
but there is like a dozen things worth mentioning before nitpicking about unwrap.
especialy since nothing is gonna prevent a dev from exiting with an error for some error, and even if unwrap was not builtin, it'd take about 2 minutes to add it yourself with a trait.

>>107546000
>That's just a blatant lie.
what criticism then ?
you make claim that you did but i don't see any, at least link a post.

>>107546001
I know what you do just from the way you respond, and to what.
You're a reactionary midwit who feels attacked when I say that unwrap is a problem, that's you jump so fast to defend it.

>>107546005
No, you can just read the thread.

am i getting this wrong or is one of the most used rust methods if x == null crash

>>107546010
Exactly 0 of criticism on Rust programming language itself has been written in this thread.

>>107546019
False.

>>107546026
Feel free to point where, unless you were filtered by pointers or something.

>>107546030
>>107546015

>>107546033
Yes, you're getting this wrong. Where's the criticism now?

>>107546037
>>107545560

>>107546048
>>>/pol/

>>107545685
> just like religions, the best way to fight against them is to know more than those that preach it.

Wrong. The best way to argue against religions is to find a fundamental contradiction that undermines their paradigm of evidences.

>>107546061
>>107545698

>>107546070
Wrong, best way to fight a religion is to have a better one that benefits your people.

>>107546008
i just honestly don't think unwrap is a problem
there are a dozen things i'd change about rust before unwrap, and even if you removed unwrap anyone could add it back to their codebase in like 5 sloc.

>>107546111
Jesus disagrees.

The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus
19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

>>107546070
only way to find good contradictions is to learn everything you can about it.

>>107546135
Nope.

>>107545698
> polymorphism
the single worse thing about OOP, nah i'm glad rust doesn't have it.
and trait composition is much more powerful anyway imo.

>>107546134
Jesus is a jew who made his own religion, he cannot disagree.

>>107546141
you may find contradictions without learning it, but just like religion they'll come up with explanations and a single one will never do.
you need to be prepared and have more than a single thing against them.

>>107546144
That's hasbara. /g/ needs flags, now.

>>107546142
Rust dyn Traits are polymorphism.

>>107546144
>Jesus is a jew
nice try gargamel

>>107546148
That's where meta-logic comes in.

>>107546158
>meta-*
>>>/his/ and or >>>/x/

>>107546160
meta-logic is simply logic about logic. Reasoning regarding reasoning. Formal and informal fallacies are meta-logical constructs.

>>107546166
logic about logic is called logic actually, back to >>>/his/ with you, faggot.

>>107546153
no, polymorphism in standard oop generaly means multiple inheritance.
dyn Traits only means "this expect something that implements this trait" ie dynamic dispatch.
ie use dyn in a box, which isn't necessary for functions signature which can do it staticaly and avoid the runtime cost of dynamic dispatch.

there is an important distinction between the two.
multiple inheritance is the only way to do polymorphism and that's an issue that plagues OOP, rust traits are composable and their implementation is separate from type declarations, and thus they don't inherit the issues that polymorphism typically cause in OOP.

>>107546169
That's just thought terminating hasbara.

>>107546176
Or, maybe, my logic is just sound, that's why I don't need to invent new words, because logic is logic, and everything else is not logical.

>>107546184
metalogic isn't a new word. That's a lie you're making up.

>>107546158
> a gagillion vulnerabilities in c/cpp software
> no one bats an eye, it's so frequent and they are so used to it happening they don't cares about it anymore or even bother mentioning it
> some problem with rust even remotely involved or mentioned (even if not the culprit)
> no one can talk about anything else but that and try to put the blame on rust for a whole month.
this tells me everything i need to know.
heck, even the second cloudflare crash, before we even knew the culprite some seething cniles tried to put the blame on rust when it was some react webshit issue.

>>107545586
>>107545601
>>107545625
>>107545793
i'm enjoying this counter-narrative bot update on post-shabbats (a.k.a. sundays).
the first attempt was admittedly clumsy:
https://desuarchive.org/g/thread/107467073/#q107467073
but this is better.
and i like that you took the advice to learn some basic logical fallacies. but letting the bot spam them looks equally clumsy. but i'm sure this will improve.
do continue. this is mildly interesting.

>>107546174
Disingenuous niggerbabble.
>>107546189
meta- is a jewish prefix used to make up new words.

>>107546160
hmm, sir, metaprogramming doesn't belong on /x/ or /his/ lol

>>107546198
Did you mean programming?
>Metaprogramming is a computer programming technique in which computer programs have the ability to treat other programs as their data.
Uh no, that's called parsing actually, kek.

>>107546196
> Disingenuous
not my fault if you can't read the most basic shit.
you have nothing back to say so you "muh nigger", good one.

> meta- is a jewish prefix used to make up new words.
meta is a greek word, not related to jewry

>>107546193
and for fucks sake. fix the bot to do ">quotes" instead of "> quotes", just like how you fixed "@${comment_id}" to do ">>${comment_id}"

>>107546193
Posting a thread with an echoquoting retard doesn't lend you any credibility or refute my inductive model. That I have an inductive model is why the shills are lying about metalogic, itself.

>>107546205
>meta is a greek word
yeah and the jewish bible adapted for gentiles was written in greece too btw

>>107546203
uh that's a bad definition of metaprogramming, generaly it's about writting code that writes or modifies code for you allowing you to add features not initially present in the language.

>>107546196
No, it's used to denote recursion. Something you probably struggle with.

>>107546212
>written in greece too
fair enough

>>107546213
don't care nigga, there's no meta-programming, there's only programming, go engage in meta-definitions if you can't even define your own niggerbabble words correctly, hell, try meta-defining them, you retarded meta-intellectual meta-heterosexual.

>>107546070
>this approach has failed for all of recorded history but i'm sure it's the best way

>>107546221
what about metaphysics ?

>>107546221
Making a programming language is metaprogramming.
Making a natural language is metalogic.

>>107546223
>this approach has failed
you should realy look up religiousness stats.

>>107546226
>>>/x/
>>107546216
The only applied recorsion haskelltards like you engage in is sucking their own dick.

>>107546223
It's the only way to get people to believe your religion instead of lying to themselves and everyone else in order to fit into a culture.

>>107546228
> Making a programming language is metaprogramming.
that's just programming.

metaprogramming is when a programming language has built in ways to change the behavior of the language within it.

ie in julia it is powerful enough that you can import a library that then allows you to write c++ code within julia code and it'll just work.

yes this is cursed, but that's an example of it.

>>107546233
> he thinks metaphysics is /x/
this is a retarded take, everyone has a metaphysics even if they are not aware of it.
physicalims itself is a metaphysic.

>>107546241
that's the baked jargon version of meta-programming

>>107546241
>has built in ways to change the behavior of the language within it.
that's just programming
The only reason to make this distinction is if you believe that there should exist programming languages so shitty that they cannot even do that.

>>107546244
Oh enlighten me, schizo.

>>107546244
Your explanation is too complicated.
It's metaphysical for me to call your explanation complicated. It's a claim related to that branch of philosophy, therefore metaphysics.
So fucking simple.

>>107546247
> there should exist programming languages so shitty that they cannot even do that.
i don't, but many langs have that issue.
ie C doesn't have proper metaprogramming.
the preprocessor is effectively a separate language and it's not good anyway.

>>107546259
Define "proper", or concede that meta-programming means nothing.

>>107546244
> metaphysics is /x/
is a metaphysical claim, therefore calling metaphysics /x/ tier is /x/ tier

>>107546276
Explain metauniverse without appearing like an /x/ poster then.

>>107546283
That's a logical fallacy and I don't care to look up which one. So simple.

>>107546290
That's a meta-logical fallacy, actually.

>>107546283
It's a form of moving the goalposts, but I was looking for a formal fallacy.

>>107546299
There's no goalpost other than that meta- as a prefix is worthless and used by retards to make shit up.

>>107546252
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics
assuming physicalism, ie that everything is made of matter / the physical world and everything else is emmergent from it (ie consciousness) is a metaphysics.

physics itself is separated from the metaphysics you assume to be true, ie the math works whether you are a physicalist, a dualist, an idealist or other.
now there is something that can be inbetween metaphysics and physics, ie the man yworld interpretation is in some sense metaphysical altough not a concrete metaphysic and the same math from physics can lead to different interpretations.

but your metaphysics just like any other beliefs can limit you and your discoveries.
many people think they don't have a metaphysical framework they believe in because they haven't formulated it or haven't taken the time to think about it, but they still have one.
it not being formulated just mean they can be more inconsistent in their beliefs.

ie many people are physicalists, many theists are dualists etc...

>>107546322
I'm not assuming, didn't read the rest.

>>107546322
You're retarded.

>>107546268
the preprocessor is a separate language from C that's built into it.
metaprogramming would be writting C code that modifies / produce C code.
you can't just call a normal C function with C code as argument within the preprocessor and have it produce new C code.
the preprocessor is an ugly mess that's effictively a separate language you cannot share construct to and from C.

>>107546276
you are right but good one lol

>>107546330
> i'm not assuming
yet you have beliefs, these beliefs fit in a world model, and therefore you have a metaphysic, even if you never bothered to think about it or formulate it.

>>107546306
No, you just don't understand recursion, or why people might need to denote that a thing is self-referencing.
>>107546322
Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy who's inquiry is concerned with the nature of entity, whether a thing exists, and how. This shit is not that hard.

bool is_post_retarded(char const* const post) {
    return post != strstr(post, "meta");
}

>>107546363
>why people might need to denote that a thing is self-referencing
the only reason to do this is to disingenuously imply that something isn't self-referencing.
All human logic is circular, they made up the word logic and then made up what it means and made up what's logical and what's not, they even made up that this reasoning isn't logic, but meta-logic.

>>107546375
Yep. Low-iq

>>107546378
but enough about anti-rust bots shitting up this thread with metacoping

>>107546367
wow, so edgy.
also, your own jeetcode post would match your logic.

>>107546384
> metacoping
man i'd love to get an actual definition of that.
coping about the constant state of coping?

>>107546375
What is the difference between the following functions?
function foo {
do thing
foo
}

function bar {
do thing
}

>>107546403
One was written by an intelligent programmer, the other is recursive.

i invite all our coping /g/eets to explicitly identify as newfags, or point to their comments in the archived thread mentioned here >>107540976 ;););)

>>107546410
> muh recursion bad
you are retarded if you honestly think that.
trying to fit all problems in one paradigm is dumb.
but there are problems that beautifuly map to recursion.

>>107546402
The definition in this case is literal.

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>>107546410
How many lines of code would this take you?

>>107545174
>coping
Just learn you mouth breather shit filtering cunt. Nothing wrong with rust. Any competent sepples programmer will take nonkess than a week to understand it.

Midwits who fail go learn rust should go back to McDonald's.

Also AI is good. Cope.

>>107546414
There 0 real problems that require recursion.

>>107546386
And here I was worried that you'd have noticed a metaironic escape hatch in that function... But admitting that C is a shitlang would be too hard for you.

>>107545476
>supply chain attack
You're not forced to use cargo. Crates.io allows you to view the source code, no dll magic. Most of them are open source. Crates.io allows you to report shit and there are tools to check.

You're just a filtered cunt. That's all.

>>107546447
K. I'll keep putting fzf into recursive functions and using it to make everything in my os that uses navigable lists easier and more convenient.

>>107546473
Choosing to use recursion and choosing to be retarded seems to be a common theme.

>>107546447
> There 0 real problems that require recursion.
true, but many problems takes way less time and sloc to write using a recursive function than trying to force it to an imperative paradigm.
it'll also result in simpler and easier to read code.

now, trying to fit non recursive problems to recursion is also a problem and will make a mess.

>>107546491
>muh sloc

>>107546459
> But admitting that C is a shitlang would be too hard for you.
i think you confuse me with another anon, i keep saying that it is and i'm also the guy that was saying that the preprocessor does not count as metaprogramming.

>>107546482
> i'm le smarter than everyone else
typical retard belief

>>107546499
Defining functions counts as metaprogramming, which is why the word means nothing.

>>107546495
> address simplicity, time, complexity and sloc
> muh sloc
why did you skip over all the rest?

>>107546482
It stops the script from exiting when I press the escape key, and refreshes the list when it recurses. The same thing that refreshes the list keeps the terminal window from exiting. It's perfect for creating widgets. It's so simple. Hundreds of lines of code made irrelevant by fzf and a one-liner.

>>107546504
Everyone more intelligent than me seems to avoid recursion for some reason.

>>107546505
>Defining functions counts as metaprogramming
uh, no, not realy, if they don't affect the behavior of the programming language it's not metaprogramming.

metaprogramming means programming the programming language.

>>107545174
>waaah popular thing is becoming more popular waaaah
don't care, will still use rust to make little /g/irls on here seethe

>>107546512
>metaprogramming means programming the programming language.
also known as writing functions and calling them

>>107546505
Sorry. That's not a reductio.

>>107546511
another common problem with being retarded is that you cannot tell appart people that are actualy intelligent than pretty talkers.
why do you think there are so many retarded celebrities seen as inteligent by the masses.

>>107546508
dude, stop trying to convince a nocoder that think he's figured everything, he's not capable to challenge his opinions and beliefs.

>>107546521
> also known as writing functions and calling them
this doesn't change the behavior of the programming language.

do you need an example ?

>>107546527
from*

>>107546508
>muh widgets in terminal
smartest recursiontoddler

>>107546533
>this doesn't change the behavior of the programming language.
Except it does?
C doesn't have a way to allocate memory, but I can write inline assembly that interfaces with the hardware or OS if one is present and wrap it in a function, and suddenly, C gains ability to allocate memory.

>>107546537
> using pers incred against a counter-example
Quickshell trannies need credentials to still click buttons on a gay animated bar.

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>using latin
This is one of best ways to make me stop trying to read your posts.

>>107546537
>>107546556
They probably wear diaper while they do it.

>>107546527
Anyone who mentions recursion is just a pretty talker though?
Lets take a tree for an example. You say recursion is good for walking trees. But I have a question, is a tree necessary? Could recursion be avoided by using a better datastructure? Nigger.

>>107546545
Metaprograming would be writing a c function that changes the features of the language itself ie add new syntax.

Ie having the ability to write a C function that adds templates to the language within your own code.
Or another one would be being able to write a function that can take a struct definition as input and output a modified struct definition

>>107546629
>Ie having the ability to write a C function that adds templates to the language within your own code.
There are a total of 0 languages that have this ability, and by ability, I mean exactly what you wrote, not patching a compiler.

>>107546591
> could recursion be avoided by using another data structure
yes, however if you weren't a nocoder you would know that you don't always get to choose what data structure you have to deal with or what data structure real world problems map the best to.
And turns out nature does like trees.

>>107546653
I always get to choose what I deal with though?

>>107546653
>>107546591
also, recursive function can make sense in things not related to data structures.
>>107546659
makes sense if you are a nocoder that hasn't build anything real.

>>107546646
> There are a total of 0 languages that have this ability
lmao, you just showed your ignorance, there are a handful that literaly can do that.

and even rust, even though its metaprogramming features are more limited than in some other language, you can absolutely affect a struct definition with another function written in rust, that's what derive does.

>>107546646
>>107546672
same thing for templates, if they weren't in the language you could add them using a proc_macro.
and it's not even the language with the most powerful metaprogramming features.

>>107546666
Not a programmer. Total skid, but it seems to me that the decision regarding which data structure to use would mostly be the result of the process of elimination as it concerns the project's requirements. I can't imagine that being any real creative exercise.

>>107546666
Real software doesn't use recursion though?
>>107546672
>you just showed your ignorance
explain how, without sounding mad

>>107546686
>you could add them using a proc_macro.
You can also just patch C compiler to call special functions at compile time to allow you to edit its AST, same thing, this is not metaprogramming, this is literally just programming and sucking your own dick about it.

>>107546694
> Not a programmer
there you go.
also why are you there then ?
why having argument if you have no experience or knowledge about what you are talking about ?

> process of elimination as it concerns the project's requirements
yes, and my point is that if you've written enough real world software, you will eventualy encounter a problem for which a tree is the best representation.
heck, programming language themselves work with an AST which is literaly a tree that the parser uses.
and besides data structures, you'll encounter problems for which a recursive function is a much simpler and more elegant solution than imperative equivalent.
besides, with TCO it's converted to imperative machine code by the compiler anyway, so there is no cost in performance, if it's more readable, simpler to maintain and write, makes sense to use it.

>>107546694
>>107546720
Can't help but notice that it's a samefag arguing with himself because I won't waste my time responding to his posts.

>>107546720
I didn't make an argument. I just asked a couple of questions.

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>>107546705
>Real software doesn't use recursion though?
tons of real software does.
>explain how, without sounding mad
because there are languages that have such metaprogramming capabilities.
racket, julia, lisp to name a few.
old stuff when i played with julia 6 years ago but here's a thing you can do with the language thanks to its capabilities you can actualy import a library and then just write c++ in a julia file and it'll just work and be parsed by the compiler because metaprogramming allows you to change the behavior of the language parser itself.

racket can do some pretty wild stuff too.

>>107546741
pic unrelated?

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>>107546714
>>107546741

not the same thing, the point of metaprogramming is that you can change the behavior of the parser itself within the scope of your own code.
and you can also write code that writes code / modiffy code within your own codebase, it's much more powerful than running a separate program to parse your own code each time.
it also allows linters to work even if you do realy weird stuff.
basicaly you can also use it to define dsl's in your language or add features to it.

the fact that it can be made with the language also means you can make it a library that other can use it, that's how some formal verification project in rust work ie picrel.
ensure is not a rust keyword, but thanks to metaprogramming you can add formal verification features and new keywords.

it allows you to write functions that'll be run by the compiler on your code at compile time.
also because it's builtin you don't have to build your own parser for the language and can directly manipulate the AST.

>>107546744
>>107546766
nah, pic was very much related, the metaprogramming allows you to write C++ inside Julia which is a different language, but that's just one example.

as is said, metaprogramming being builtin means you don't have to write your own parser for the language and can directly manipulate the AST.

>>107546777
>>107546744
also yea, because it's built in you also keep to use the linter for metaprogrammed constructs, which is nice.

>>107546777
Cool I guess? Why would I use julia if I wanted to write C++?

>>107545861
Even ignoring this. Most real code is made in C++ anyway. Only the FOSS POSIX ecosystem is still mainly C. At this point you only see C at all because it's so basic it became the defacto "ABI" of every major OS, ironically without an ABI actually defined other than what the platform C compiler generates.

>>107546766
It is the same thing, retard.
The reality is that you have to modify your parser to allow modifying it from inside the language.
There are 0 languages that allow you to add this ability from inside the parser, because if they did, it would be because parser has UB and "malicious" code that is being compiled injected itself into the parser.
I repeat, there are ZERO languages that have this feature.

>>107546786
>>107546744
that's also how serde in rust works.
you can just write
derive(Serialization, Deserialization)
struct foo {whatever}

and now your struct implements those two traits, which means you can now convert to and from any format known to man.
now separate libraries can implement ie json serialization for any types that impl those traits.

but anyway, such a library is made possible only thanks to metaprogramming.

serde doesn't implement the serializer itself, it implement an abstraction over serializing which other library can implement serializer for separately.

so now you can use serde-json or serde-toml or whatever, and then all types that derive Serialization, Deserializtion can be converted to and from pm any format

>>107546799
that's an example of what it can do.
ie if you want to write julia but be able to use a C++ library and mix c++ code in your julia code without having to think about it.

you can literaly use julia variable from C++ code and vice versa.

>>107546818
I know how serde works and that's why serde is banned from my projects.

>>107546823
Why would I want to write Julia but depend on code I didn't want to write? Completely inane.

>>107546813
>The reality is that you have to modify your parser to allow modifying it from inside the language.
uh, no, the point is that the parser supports code that modifies its parsing behavior.
not that hard to grasp.

have you ever heard of LISP ?
it's literaly one of the most metaprogrammable family of language, because code is data, and you can directly parse and modify the AST from the code itself, you don't need to write a separate program.

>>107546802
Which OSes have C ABI as their ABI?

>>107546824
> that's why serde is banned from my projects.
why ? because it uses metaprogramming ?
also the derive features are entirely optional, you can manually implement the traits, but derive() is just much nicer to use.

>>107546834
> but depend on code I didn't want to write
muh using a library is bad.

you may as well write your own kernel running on your own hardware if you don't want to depend on other's code

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>>107546834
>Why would I want to write Julia but depend on code I didn't want to write?

>>107545387
why would you use rc, arc, refcell if you are using raw pointers and unsafe?

>>107546844
Uh, all of them? You retarded? Keep in mind the air quotes by the way. I'm implying a platform specific definition of an ABI that looks like C.

>>107546824
I highly doubt your hand written type visiting serdes implementation is better than serde. I'd recommend you print the output of the derive macro to see for yourself or write your own trait impl if you really need more control.

>>107546910
I'm asking because I don't know one that uses specifically C ABI. Linux for example uses System V ABI, Windows doesn't even have a stable ABI, MacOS isn't even relevant enough for me to know what it does, so I am asking you, again, which OS uses C ABI as its ABI?

>>107546972
My implementation doesn't have 500 dependencies and doesn't take x500 longer to compile so it is better.

>>107546853
Less dependencies is always better, objectively.

>>107546978
All of them, retard.

>>107547018
> 500 dependencies
serde doesn't have anywhere near that
> x500 longer to compile so it is better
1. the slowest thing is gonna be your linker, use mold
2. split your project into crates ?
3. have you tried a getting a cpu that's not 20 years old ?

>>107547073
>Less dependencies is always better, objectively.
but no dependencies isn't.
also there are things for which dependencies means you are using code that have had a LOT more engineering hours than you'd put on it, meaning not only can it be made better and be more audited, it's also probably faster.

>>107547018
https://crates.io/crates/serde/1.0.228/dependencies
Retard.

>>107547082
Can you show me how to access a pointer to some Linux function and call it from userland like it was a C function then?
If what you wrote is true, then this should be possible.

>>107547038
>there are troons that use rust
what a shocker
you know, troons are not exclusive to rust right ?

>>107547106
Rust leadership council member is a bit different from
>troons that use rust

>>107547113
> Rust leadership council member
and ?
all organizations are infested, same thing with the linux foundation and pm anything else.
troons crave attention and positions of power.
white men care about getting shit done.

the best they can do is irrelevant positions of power whilst white men become leaders of actualy influential entities.

anyway, a thing's comunity and related centralized organisation says nothing about its actual userbase.
see linux foundation.

>>107547073
its just obfuscation when you import one large package that itself imports from 100 others. In reality you still always depend on a massive stack.

Monolitic massive codebases just means its comfort at the cost of bloat, thats how web turned shit with 8mb apis loaded for single function call.

>>107547113
i'd laugh so fucking much if torvalds trooned out
this would be a sad day, but also hilarious to see how people react.

>>107547101
What the fuck are you talking about you stupid faggot? A "Linux function?" You call it by the definition and have your linker link it. All crts have something like dlopen or in Windows, LoadLibrary. Cast the function pointer to some C function pointer type and call it. Done.

Even Rust defines the concept of extern C or linking C symbols from foreign code, just like C++ and basically every other language that has "FFI."

>>107547149
Keep seething worthless tranny, if I can make my stack smaller, I will.
Shut the fuck up, I didn't ask your opinion.
>>107547162
I'm talking about Linux syscalls, my bad for assuming that you were intelligent to understand though.
So I'll remind you, Linux syscalls aren't using C ABI, literally no kernel uses C ABI in fact, you're just hallucinating, because userland is completely different thing, a new userland, with different ABI, could be built if that was necessary.
Why it wasn't done? Well, maybe look at yourself in the mirror.

>>107546142
Nothing there implies OOP polymorphism.

>>107547157
Rust is already in the kernel and his kernel cannot be built without C++.
He might look like an old man, but metaphysically, he's already a double tranny.

>>107547185
in C++ polymorphism means OOP because you'll need a superclass, which means, multiple inheritence.

>>107547191
>his kernel cannot be built without C++
do you have a source for that?
the kernel is written in c with bits of rust

>>107547194
I never had to use multiple inheritance in C++.

>>107547194
You lack domain knowledge as well as reading comprehension. Please refrain from posting unless you understand what you're talking about.

>>107547203
>do you have a source for that?
https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gcc

>>107547205
then you didn't use polymorphism or at least not the builtin constructs for it.

>>107547213
gcc isn't the only c compiler

>>107547212
runtime polymorphism means a superclass ie multiple inheritance.

>>107547229
It's the only compiler used to build Linux, the only other one that might work with some extra cope is LLVM.
Linus Torvalds himself has chosen to lock himself into GCC extensions and now his code cannot be built without C++ code that parses and compiles it.

>>107547173
>I'm talking about Linux syscalls
And yet Linux syscall inouts are full of "C shaped" structs and zero terminated c strings. Retarded faggot
And that doesn't actually mean anything for this discussion.
>because userland is completely different thing,
You're so fucking retarded it's unreal. Userland is all that matters for ABI. Linux is the only platform where you can define your own userland ABI and contract with the kernel but you'll end up contorting to the platform C ABI anyway if you want your shit ecosystem to be usable by anyone else.

Technically Windows Server is moving to stable syscall numbering, but that's also not really relevant to this discussion.

KYS midwit. You can bring up implementation details like syscalls, sysv amd64 ABI or __fastcall, x64call or whatever other words you want but to every language FFI (ABI) looks like C.

>>107547244
>"C shaped" structs
what does that even mean? That's not how Linux ABI is defined

>>107547244
>to every language FFI (ABI) looks like C.

pub fn exit(status: i32) -> ! {
    unsafe {
        asm!(
            "syscall",
            in("rax") 60,
            in("rdi") status,
            options(nostack, nomem, noreturn)
        )
    }
}

This looks like C?

>>107545351
>The underlying assertion is that Rust is a fedslop cyber weapon built on Ken Thompson's "Trusting Trust."
That's literally what C is and that was proven because Ken Thompson actually put the backdoor in the C compiler and there are other backdoors in C like gets() which was used by the Morris Worm.

>>107547243
>lock himself into GCC extensions
suggest a compiler that's not gcc or clang that produce executables similarly performant?

>>107547173
>posts retardation
>gets told
>nooo shut up
lmao 41% faster faggot

all these retards are the reason coding is turning to shit, should have mandatory iq test with ban for sub 120 monkeys

>>107547305
Did you forget that you were coping about Linux not depending on C++, and suddenly are trying to justify dependence on C++?

>>107547267
>can't read
Many such cases. I guess being low IQ hurts. I'd remind you read my first post again too, but you're too low IQ to see how completely up your own ass you are.

>>107547311
>sub 120 monkeys
but enough about serde userbase
>>107547317
>being low IQ hurts
but enough about "C ABI spook" userbase

>>107547316
nah i agree, but my point is you say "muh linux uses gcc"
i'm saying, what else could it use ?
not realy linus's fault that gcc decided to use c++.
also you could probably still build with an older version of gcc that doesn't.

>>107547339
It is Linus's fault for having an opinion about C++ despite being a total nocoder who should stay in his lane.
Kernel development is not hard, it's just boilerplate codemonkery, real code is written in C++, and now, Rust.

>>107547328
Learn to read. Here I'll relink my first post so you can see how much of a mentally stunted sperg you are being.
>>107546802

>>107547350
> real code is written in C++, and now, Rust
i'm a rust dev, but saying that only cpp and rust code is real is disingenous and part of the mentality responsible for the backlash the language gets.

>>107547339
Linus literally broke a release because he depended on newer GCC features. As a downstream cuck you could use another c compiler or older GCC, perhaps.

>>107547267
guess what the executable it's compiled to is gonna look like

>>107547369
I mean is it? The cutting edge of software has moved to C++ for some time. It's all nonfree and extremely unfortunate, but it's true. I haven't worked on a massive enterprise C code base that hasn't in principle been built with a c++ compiler or augmented with c++ code.

>>107545756
>Using the forced adoption of C as the basis for its legitimacy, rather than engineering improvements in the finished product. Without these improvements, they fall back on ideological narratives explained to them in the C book. That's tactical deception. Ideology self-replicates.
FTFY. Why were you describing C but writing "Rust?" All C programmers use "the forced adoption of C as the basis for its legitimacy." C replaced a lot of FORTRAN, COBOL, ALGOL, BASIC, PL/I, Pascal, Ada, Lisp, and other languages and C programmers use that replacement as the basis for saying C is better, instead of actually comparing the technical merit of the languages.

>>107547358
You're assuming that it's my literacy issue, but no, I simply refuse to read your niggerbabble because I think that you're a massive faggot.
>>107547369
I never wrote that anywhere except on 4chan so I'm not concerned about the way rust is perceived.
>>107547377
Nothing like C.

>>107547402
You might be onto something. Maybe this isn't the first time this has happened.

>>107547433
> I never wrote that anywhere except on 4chan so I'm not concerned about the way rust is perceived.
believe it or not i'm cto of a pretty big company, i like rust so you wouldn't sway my opinion, but surely i can't be the only one in a position of power on this site.

>>107547402
>technical merit of the languages.
Did you notice that unlike those languages that were killed by C, Rust didn't repeat their mistake?

i predict that in 20 years, no one will be writting C / C++ anymore except for hobby project or to maintain / interact with legacy codebases.

>>107547484
This is why I'm moving to Rust today.

>>107547469
rust is same as fortran - convoluted mess nobody normal wants to touch.

C has one simple merit - its easy.
It has advanced features which makes writing C slower but you can read and understand C much easier because it has no features to redefine what a line of code means.

>>107547484
>>107547500
topkek
> moving to a programming language
Everything rust shills say is for greens

>>107547522
>It has advanced features
fuck meant no advanced features

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>>107547522
>it has no features to redefine what a line of code means.

>>107547527
For what I'm doing, there's 0 reason to use more than one programming language.

>>107547555
Then why are you moving to another one?

>>107547574
Because it's superior.

>>107547583
How do you know if you haven't moved to it yet.

>>107547589
Because I'm writing Rust code right now.

>>107547593
> responds with propaganda
figured

>>107546802
>At this point you only see C at all because it's so basic it became the defacto "ABI" of every major OS, ironically without an ABI actually defined other than what the platform C compiler generates.
DLLs in Windows have a standard calling convention. Non-Unix OSes like VMS have their own calling conventions and ABIs that have nothing to do with C.

>>107546844
>Which OSes have C ABI as their ABI?
The one Ctrannies made up.

>>107547598
NTA but i think you should learn the language and write a few real world project with it (not some meme niche nothing case where you specificaly try to seek its flaws).

i've yet to find a single c/c++ dev that mastered the language and didn't prefer it.

>>107547631
9/10 doctors shove cigarettes up their ass backwards, and so should you

>>107545174
>What can be done to escape from and contain the rust virus?
Establish a pure dictatorship in your country. Ensure that your fearless leader issues a ban plus death penalty (no trial, naturally) for Rust usage. it's come to this: it's now the only way.
Naturally this won't happen because we're all stupid pussies, so Rust will rule.

>>107547631
>not some meme niche nothing case where you specificaly try to seek its flaws
why are rustroons like this?
>nooo, you cannot heckin have fun like that

>>107547639
> i refuse to learn something new to make my own opinion about it instead of recycling /pol/ worthy takes

>>107547668
> why are rustroons like this?
because you'd not do it for any other language you learn, you only do that for rust because of /pol/ retardation identity politics bullshit.

just learn the thing, build a few things with it and make your own fucking opinion it's not that hard.
if you had the same behavior of flaw seeking whenever learning anything new, you couldn't use any thing because every fucking things has flaws.

you are essentialy saying "muh what about that specific thing that doesn't have any real world consequence" when the language is better in a hundred different metrics.

>>107547686
But I do?

>>107547693
man sometime i wish i didn't knew C so i could learn it with a fresh eye and the behavior you have and point out all the fucking shit that suck about it.
now i'm used enough to it that i don't see them anymore but yes, C has tons of flaws and missing things.

>>107547697
You could just stop being a midwit and you will be able to point out everything that sucks about it.

    #[must_use = "losing the pointer will leak memory"]
    #[stable(feature = "box_raw", since = "1.4.0")]
    #[inline]
    pub fn into_raw(b: Self) -> *mut T {
        // Avoid `into_raw_with_allocator` as that interacts poorly with Miri's Stacked Borrows.
        let mut b = mem::ManuallyDrop::new(b);
        // We go through the built-in deref for `Box`, which is crucial for Miri to recognize this
        // operation for it's alias tracking.
        &raw mut **b
    }

Autism.

>>107547706
oh i'm able to.
here is a small non exaustive list:

shitty preprocessor
no real metaprogramming
no templates
.h files
IFNDEF retardation
compiler ACK-ing itself when dependency mismatch happen (ie dep A and B both depends of a different version of dep C).
no methods (altough you can make your own vtables, that's kinda shit).
no equivalents to traits
no standardized build system
no dependency managment system
documentation isn't builtin the langage
the common way to build is hacky build scripts / makefiles

and don't even get me started on c++

>>107547739
Over half of these have nothing to do with C.

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131 KB PNG

>>107547752
but they do.
and all the ones related to the build system is the language's fault for not picking one standard and making it official.

>>107547768
Cargo is neither official nor part of the language.

>>107547775
cargo is official.
the recomanded way to install the rust toolchain is rustup, which will also install cargo.
and the official documentation contains info about toml configs et al, which are very cargo specific.
it can't be more official than that.