Why don't companies make their own RAM like they make their own chips?
Yeah bruh just invest millions in r&d money and buy your own fabs instead of buying cheap and already proven designs
>>107555244>buying cheapThat ship has sailed.
>>107555219Almost no companies that design chips also have fabs so your take is retarded.
>>107555260Shitel?
>>107555219apple is developing new mobile high bandwidth memory
>>107555219read about intel, the creator of memory chips, faggot. see what happened to them. they were forced out of the market due to ever shrinking profits and increasing competition.
>>107555259As expensive as it's now it's still cheaper than building from scratch.Until RAM rises to the thousands of dollars, I guess most corporations are fine the way things are.
>>107555219RAM is fungible and easy to make, meaning its customers are price sensitive, and if it's easy for you to make it's also easy for a competitor with 1000x the scale to outproduce younowadays RAM is getting more 2.5D meaning they stack the layers high, so it's not as easy to produce as it once was
>>107555219>make their own chipsOh sweet summer child...
>>107555418And now there is no competition. Micron is only for datacenter, Hynix doesn't have the capacity to compensate, and Samsung just discontinued part of their product line so future is uncertain there too. Who is going to compete, fucking Nanya?
>>107555519>And now there is no competition.yea things are pretty fucking fucked for your average consumers. people will get a tiny taste of what buying memory was like in the 1970s but without the mega inflation >Hynix doesn't have the capacity to compensatei doubt anyone does. i believe they were all caught off guard by the rapid demand generated by these memeshi ai companies that seem to be buying up anything that can store a 0 or 1 in it, and in vast quantities
>>107555519china
>>107555951yep
>>107555219>Why don't companies make their own RAM like they make their own chips?What planet do you live on?Most companies don't make their own chips.They design them, then outsource the fabrication.
>>107555259>Takes 2 years to build up new fab>By then the AI datacenters are built and demand has leveledIt's not a BAD investment, but I think they're waiting to see how endemic is because.
>>107555219What’s funny is the chip you just pasted has integrated memory because it’s an SoC, not a CPU.
>>107555244If you've got a million line unit mover, its cheaper to get yourself a fab of your own. Apple should ideally be pursuing it to control their own destiny. Tesla probably will as they want to move multiple millions of units on their own each year. So they need to secure their supply line. Especially since there could potentially be a war with China that could destroy the entire South China Sea trade lines which will shutdown the entire computer industry.
>>107556057yeah but they dont design the ram part
>>107555219The cumulative investment required to build another tier-1 memory manufacturer on par with Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron, etc. is thought to be at least $1 trillion over 20 years. This shit is crazy capital-intensive.
>>107556177isn’t ram super simple though? like what is there to design besides the controller (which amd and intel also do btw)
>>107556208The complication comes from making them super small and maintaining yield rate. A lot of companies that tried to challenge the Big 3 got their shit kicked in from not being able to match the yield rate.
>>107555519the shortage is artificialhttps://www.mooreslawisdead.com/post/sam-altman-s-dirty-dram-deal"""Budget brands normally buy older DRAM fabrication equipment from mega-producers like Samsung when Samsung upgrades their DRAM lines to the latest and greatest equipment. This allows the DRAM market to expand more than it would otherwise because it makes any upgrading of the fanciest production lines to still be additive change to the market. However, Korean memory firms have been terrified that reselling old equipment to China-adjacent OEMs might trigger U.S. retaliation…and so those machines have been sitting idle in warehouses since early spring.""""""And now time for the biggest twist of all, a twist that’s actually public information, and therefore should be getting discussed by far more people in this writer's opinion: OpenAI isn’t even bothering to buy finished memory modules! No, their deals are unprecedentedly only for raw wafers — uncut, unfinished, and not even allocated to a specific DRAM standard yet. It’s not even clear if they have decided yet on how or when they will finish them into RAM sticks or HBM! Right now it seems like these wafers will just be stockpiled in warehouses – like a kid who hides the toybox because they’re afraid nobody wants to play with them, and thus selfishly feels nobody but them should get the toys!"""
>>107556242The only winner is Micron who got weird vibes from Sam Altman and didn't do a bulk allocation deal.
>>107556199that sounds like bs
>>107556235yeah, i feel the real challenge in ram is the factory floor process, not the design
Sometimes I feel the Austrian painter had it right.
>>107556452he was right about everything lmao, it's quite comical.
Apple doesn't make their own CPUs, they order designs from arm and manufacture them at tcms.
>>107555219They do, but it’s all on-chip memory like cache.The processes are different for different types of ram, too, and generally different from cpu/gpus.In the microcontroller world, it’s common.Look at TI’s FRAM.I assume apple will be the first to do on-die memory at scale.>>107556242They need to consolidate the funds they got into tangible assets which changes ownership for $1Also, they’re careful that the assets can’t seized or liquidated for the inevitable bankruptcy.
>>107556556>they order designs from armApple acquired P.A. Semi then Intrinsity, they stopped relying on arm 15 years ago.
>>107555219It's billions investment for cutting edge technology and personel training that may take them years to get a return of investment on. It's less risky by far to order from tsmc and the like
It is literally magic that the Taiwanese is determined to keep a secret. I wonder if the communists would make it open-source if they ever captured the island.
>>107556576apple doesn't make its own ram. the chip die is made by tsmc, the ram modules by SK Hynix. It's possible to remove the stock ram and replace it.
>>107556620Well, just looking at your picrel, in the future, it seems like apple is the most likely candidate to use on chip ram.
>>107556649it's not possible; the process are different.
>>107556620if you heat the ram up to remove it you also destroy the cpu, it wont boot anymore.
>>107555219Because Worse Korea already makes them at reasonable price.BUT, if that's no longer the case...
>>107556556apple designs their own cpu, arm just publishes a spec sheetits like the intel/amd situation where amd created their own design to run x86
>>107556649apple is ditching LPDDR5 in 2027. they are going to use custom designed mobile HBMhttps://wccftech.com/apple-to-use-hbm-advanced-ai-memory-technology-for-better-ai-experience/
>>107555219Only intel and samsung makes their own chips. Designing isn't the same as 'making', you colossal cumstain.
>>107556985i would add SMIC and Huawei. While they are different entities, they are both controlled by the same branch of the government. smic is virtually in the service of huawei now.
>>107555462Yeah they [i]design[/i] their own chips. They actually [i]make[/i] nothing. Everything is actually produced at the same handful of factories.
>>107556242Has this gay Jew even paid anything for this, or is it just an LoI?>I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a wafer todayHow does anyone even get on board with this from a manufacturing side if he doesn't even have a fraction of the money to actually do it?
>>107555368Says who?
>>107555244>cheap Top Kek>ProvenProven to overheat and crash
