What would it take to manufacture CRTs on a commercial scale again in 2026 and the years to come?Would it be more viable to buy existing IP/patent rights from the companies that used to be the leaders back in the day, or to re-develop the technology from scratch using modern means?
>>107603053>What would it take to manufacture CRTs on a commercial scale againdemand
Imagine if we had FW900's with quantum dot phosphors
>What would it take to manufacture CRTs on a commercial scale again in 2026 and the years to come?Some technical innovation that makes it both cost efficient AND better than OLED.
>>107603109>better than OLED.Always has been
>>107603126Yes dude I fucking know that.I mean after whatever makes it cheaper.
>>107603064/thread
>>107603148Tubes got shockingly cheap towards the 00s, and some digital innovations already back then managed to eliminate a lot of the expensive manual labor involved. For example, the last generation CR1 chassis Trinitrons didn't need any convergence strips anymore, as their DCNV system could do that job entirely digitally. This is how you got $600 G520's, affordable endgame monitors that trivially beat pro monitors that cost $5k just a couple year prior. The F520 is the best CRT ever made and it only had an MSRP of $1600. The absolute peak of monitor tech for just $1600 !!!
>>107603216Sorry for raging.That's still a ton of money compared to all the other display tech available now though.
We've already forgotten how to manufacture many of the components.
LCD is just cheap. CRT is more expensive to manufacture especially. CRT manufacture only worked because up until the early 00s manufacturers had a huge economy of scale to call uponIt's a modern wonder that mass CRT manufacture even worked. It's like cutting edge chip production in complexity. Without the economy of scale that CRT had almost nobody would have had one. In many ways, LCD is a simpler technology
>>107603053I experimented with magnetic bearings (acting as some sort of voice coil minus the diaphragm), mirrors and lasers back in the 90's, and actually managed to get proper SD raster going with remarkable stability, only at a very low framerate due to shit laser quality (literal $10 laser pointer, slightly modified)That's where my money is.
>>107603251OLED monitors cost at least as much just a couple years ago. Although affordable OLED monitors are starting to become a thing.A lot of that $1600 was monopoly premium, as that monitor was electrically almost exactly identical to the $600 G520's. Sony just was the only one that manufactured .22mm aperture grilles.That price tbf was still only possible via economies of scale. It'd be so difficult to come to close to that now. But electronics are soo much cheaper now than they used to be.
>>107603053If it wasn't for the fact that CRTs are expensive to ship, and fairly complex to manufacture I'm sure some Chinese company would have picked up CRTs to feed into the retro niche, especially as they are willing to pay a premium for them. But yeah, too big/heavy/expensive to produce and ship.
>>107603053nobody wants a TV that fills 90% of any room you put it in
>>107603587Poor people shouldn't be buying monitors anyways.
>>107603064This, only a few of the most turbo of turbo autists who only use it to look at a pixelated space ship care about crts in 2026.
>>107603282We already have laser projectors.
>>107603053any patent related to crts expired decades ago
>>107603587Wasn't there some pretty big progress in CRT towards the end of its lifespan. Like screens nominally thicker than the early LCD TVs at the time.
>>107603053What if instead of 1 bug tube they make 4 smaller tubes?
>>107603948What if every pixel was it's own CRT?
>>107603053>What would it take to manufacture CRTs on a commercial scale againSocietal collapse and the complete loss of knowledge on how to make LCD and OLED screens.
Literally impossible. >needs to first create tooling for a fuckton of specific items>needs a ton of chemicals that aren't even in production / available anymore>tons of shit regarding CRTs got outlawed
>>107603053it's not happening ever lmaobest case scenario you're getting baked in bfi that emulates crts like this https://testufo.com/crt
>>107603053>Would it be more viable to buy existing IP/patent rights from the companies that used to be the leaders back in the day, or to re-develop the technology from scratch using modern means?neither are viable
>>107603053You wouldn't need to buy any patent rights; patents are only 20 years so any 2005 and earlier CRT is now public domain.
>>107603053>Would it be more viable to buy existing IP/patent rights from the companies that used to be the leaders back in the day, or to re-develop the technology from scratch using modern means?first, most if not all crt patents are expired, after 20 years you are free to use them.second buy ldp patents, they are the same but with a laser instead of a heavy bigass vacumm tube and a high voltage power supply. it would be cheaper, and better in almost every way bc its is stackable, as it is is currrent usehttps://www.prysm.com/displays/lpd-6k-series/features/
>>107603053The cost to restart CRT production would be massive. The technology is practically lost at this point, you would need to recreate so much.
>>107605659Stackable displays have high input lag, because you need to buffer incoming frames so that they can be split.
what if you just made an oled that lights up in a way that emulates phosphors?
>>107605659some fag is making a website to promote the tech, he was saying to make domestic units when the patents expire, if only...https://lpdisplays.com/>>107605741that is not inherent to the tech, you could just make a big single tile one
>>107605749this is being developedhttps://blurbusters.com/crt-simulation-in-a-gpu-shader-looks-better-than-bfi/they implemented it in their test https://testufo.com/crtand this other guy made a program with ithttps://store.steampowered.com/app/3448910/Vint_Realtime_Video_Interpolation_and_CRT_Emulation/
>>107603064Autists cannot understand this concept, whatever obscure/outdated shit they've hyper fixated on in their mind is the greatest thing ever and they genuinely cannot fathom that nobody else gives a shit about some dead technology everyone abandoned the second there was an alternative.
>>107605850crts are really bad in this regard, is not a tech that its manufacturing scales down easily, unless you only need really basic osciloscope screens
>>107603064demand will never be there again (probably) for it to be cost effective with current manufacturing technology, I guess 8 billion people still isn't enough to provide that niche.if something came along that would make it easier to manufacture these at smaller scales it might be doable to sell to autists.>>107603291>.22mm aperture grilles.surely this can't be that hard to manufacture at least for creating prototypes, right? We have laser cutters and shit now that should make this easy. idk
>>107606841>it might be doable to sell to autists.I don't think so. How many CRT autists are there? A thousand? How many of them aren't broke? Let's say there are 10,000 insane people who would buy a giant box for flying ufos for $10,000. It's just one hundred millions dollars. And we need to build a factory, design the product, market it, ship it. Why those autists would buy a second box next year?
>>107607029Far more than a thousand. If there were that few, the prices of CRTs, which, despite their stock decreasing due to being sent to landfills or recycled, are still fairly plentiful, then they wouldn't be selling on markets like eBay for hundreds of dollars.So there are enough people willing to pay current market prices to sustain the market we're seeing or else that market wouldn't exist at current prices, which looks like $100-$300 for a decent-ish late model computer monitor, which is probably nowhere near the price that a newly made similar product would be. So it would be pointless.I think the whole reason people like the idea of new CRTs is to keep them alive, and more importantly, combat the reducing supply and therefore lower the prices, but that won't happen.It could work for highly valued collector stuff like the FW900 which sells for over $4,000.These days, you don't need a factory and you don't need to tool up IMHO. If you're targeting autists (us) you can sell 3d print files for all the plastics, so no injection molding, PCBs can be custom ordered in under a dozen units, etc.Literally the only challenging part is the tube itself. Considering there are people who can make computer chips in their garages with enough money, I could see such a thing maybe being possible and being sort of a DIY scene thing.
>>107603053https://archive.org/details/1990s-sony-trinitron-television-how-it-was-made-vintage-tv-crt-tube-electronicsWhenever someone asks if CRT manufacturing could come back, show them this. A billion dollar factory, top of the line robotics, hundreds of employees all to make a product which is unequivocally inferior to today’s television sold exclusively to a niche market of retro game enthusiasts. It will never happen again. All the CRTs there are are all there’ll ever be.Even still, the few thousand total sales from Redditoids and 4chan incels won't cover it.You are making an inferior product for an extremely niche market.Those CRTs you find are using scavenged stock.Once that's gone it's literally impossible to manufacture more; not just because the infrastructure no longer exists, but because CRTs were only viable to produce because of scale: you needed a massive production line of thousands of people where one guy was an expert in making one thing. The professional market (PVM/BVMs which sold by the thousands) was only kept afloat by the consumer market (150 TVL pieces of shit which was sold by the millions).Moreover, making the parts used is now illegal because of toxic chemicals.No kickstarter is going to fund your gigantic illegal underground CRT assembly line that employs more people than the mafia, I'm sorry.
>>107603126their current solution to this is to have super high refresh rates and just interpolate intermediate frames. you can reduce motion blur on sample and hold displays by using really high framerates, but it's unreasonable to run every game at 600fps nativelyall this to try to solve an issue crt's never had to begin with
>>107603053Could you use some of the tech from modern VR/AR headsets to make the sets smaller? Pancake lenses, waveguides, etc.?
>>107607248it's not inferior from the consumer's pointit's just less profitable for the manufacturer and distributorit was only marketed as inferior to make people switch to the more profitable but ultimately worse product
The death of capitalism.Same goes for 4:3 displays above 22-24", features like freesync, displayport etc.
>>107607357It is, ask a normie or a woman what they think of old tvs.
>>107607374literally everything has freesync and display port though?
>>107603570A Chinese company tried. They bought up the equipment to do it from a shutdown CRT line but once it all arrived, they couldn't figure out how to make many of the machines work. Even though the process was documented, there were enough undocumented things that the old workers just knew how to do because they'd been trained by the previous workers that it couldn't work without that direct connection of handed down knowledge.
>>107607396I like how you used a question mark at the end to signify that you lacked literacy and required clarification. That was very entertaining.
I think a monochrome TV would be doable by a DIYer.
>>107607438a question mark without a clear question indicates tone you autist
>>107607465Monochrome CRTs absolutely have been made by hobbyists. I've seen videos.You can use a Erlenmeyer flask for the main screen.The phosphor is coated on the bottom by dissolving it in water, swirling it in the flask, then letting it dry.The electron gun can be made from glass tube with a filament on one end, and foil on the other with a pinhole poked in it.For beam steering, a hand wound magnetic yoke is probably the easiest option, but I've also seen hand made electrostatic deflection plates.You can also do bi-color CRTs by simply coating a second (different) phosphor on top of the first.Increasing the beam intensity will cause the electrons to penetrate through the top phosphor coat and excite the bottom phosphor.Full color CRTs are probably not feasible, as you then need a shadow mask or grille, and three well aligned electron guns.Then again, you could make a full color CRT projector by simply using three monochrome CRTs.
>>107607489NTA but you're right, it indicates a very bitchy/gay/womanly tone especially when literally everything doesn't have whatever you're talking about, which is why the guy replied to you with a condescending post. Hope this helps and I hope you're able to overcome your own autism and stop being gay. Merry Christmas
>>107607578Are the Erlenmayer flask displays only good for oscilloscopes, or do you think they'd be able to potentially work up to something comparable to a 4" portable BW TV?
>>107606841>demand will never be there again (probably)Yeah I wouldn't count on it, but stranger things have happened. I thought film photography was stone fucking dead but it's going through a resurgence right now. Kodak is increasing their output for the first time in like 30 years and introducing (or reintroducing I'm not 100% clear) some new films to retailers for the first time in ages. Polaroid made a pretty good comeback too. I'm actually surprised by how much kids love those things. I went to a big 4th of July festival this summer and there were a shitload of teenagers and younger kids with different varieties of instant cameras running around. It felt like I stepped into the 70s or 80s for a minute.
>>107607605That was mostly to demonstrate that you don't even need glass blowing skills.(I forgot to mention the one I saw just poked all the wires through a rubber stopper, so it was basically just slapped together from junk already commonly available in a lab).You can always project a square image on a round tube, and just hide the tube behind a bezel. That's basically how early B&W CRTs televisions were made anyways.If you actually want a square tube, you'll probably need to learn glass blowing.
>>107607628>I'm actually surprised by how much kids love those things. I went to a big 4th of July festival this summer and there were a shitload of teenagers and younger kids with different varieties of instant cameras running around. It felt like I stepped into the 70s or 80s for a minute.idk why it's that surprising, instant & disposable cameras were always great for parties, people loved them. I think somewhere people who got wooed by feature phones, normalfags who think everything new is great got disconnected from it.The process, the separation was what people enjoyed, getting prints or scans back is part of the fun for people who are young and when you consider the way that social media is, that's incredibly vacuous in comparison. If you grew up in the selfie age, it's boring. If you unironically enjoyed the concept of a selfie as it was introduced and you were above the age of 16 at the time: you shoulda been shot and tossed into the sea.The cameras people buy now are still usually decent, they have simple, but effective optical designs, C41 is forgiving too, it's arguably easier to use than shitty phone cameras and even the low end plastic lens trash will have give you superior quality and tone mapping.
What a coincidence this thread was posted since I just came across this thread on /r/OLED_Gaming:https://old.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/1pqob3y/700_woled_vs_1000_crt_vs_2500_ips_vs_10000_rgb/>Photos taken by a Lumix G9 locked exposure with boosted shadows, white balance set to each display (all displays perceptually matched IRL) but the camera still picks it up differently even though I set them all to ~80 nits with a spectro. I tried lol, it's hard taking photos of displays.Models:>The Sony BVM-E171 16.5" RGB OLED >The Eizo CG279X 27" IPS panel has an A-TW polariser so you don't get the very distracting corner blooming you see on some panels (this has no local dimming).>LG C4 WOLED (Self-Explanatory)>Ikegami 9" HTM-1050R2 CRT fed through a Blackmagic HDMI>SDI 3G converter, this one has HD-SDI inputs and takes 720p/60 or 1080i/60 if you can believe that. These were roughly equivalent to the higher end Sony PVM1/3
>>107607628Film never completely died, which helps.Digital cameras only recently caught up to the quality of film, and film continued to be used in some niches for archival reasons.My dentist was also still using film for X-rays until maybe 5 years ago.Polaroid film coming back was really impressive though.The "Impossible Project" really pulled off some necromancy, acquiring all the patents, and buying the factory from Polaroid before all the tribal knowledge could be lost.LP Records coming back in style was also cool, but that's much simpler than film or CRTs. Nothing a dedicated machinist can't figure out.
>>1076077212/3
>>1076077323/3 There's a bunch more comparison photos in the thread link.
We just need small form CRTs to come back into production. No one wants large ones but the market for like 15" or less is pretty big.
>>107607578What you're describing sounds exactly like this old project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF5hB2MfLyAHaven't thought of this in years, that was some niche old youtube
>>107607413Interesting. Yeah generational knowledge is a big fucking thing often not understood how big its role is.This is why techs like nuclear power lagged for decades because faggot leftists got people convinced how "dangerous" it is and then the public opinion was against it so new nuclear plants didnt get built except in France and Russia so everywhere else people didnt educate themselves to be nuclear scientists so the whole field atrophied programs in universities shut down, old nuke scientists retire without having passing their knowledge to the new generation and now we are in a situation where the public realized that leftists were being unscientific, hysteric faggots not basing their opinions in facts like always, so now when the realization has set that we need more nuclear power and we need it yesterday the expertise only exists in France, Russia, USA and China and nowhere else, and the tech is stagnating decades behind what it could bePlus its extremely expensive to build because the lack of educated people on it and lot of the shit needed to be re-learnt when building new sites today
>>107607724>Polaroid film coming back was really impressive though.I wish someone would make that peel apart instant film again. I have a cool Polaroid I got from a thrift store that takes it. Makes me think of the end scene in the Coneheads.
>>107603053I think you just need a billionaire autist who's passionate about CRTs to put a few billion into R&D to get a manufactory going again. We already know that people are willing to spend over $1000 on niche display technology (premium VR headsets like the Bigscreen Beyond), and nearly just as much on niche adapters (Retrotink 4k and other associated accessories), so asking for a premium for a modern CRT would be understandable.
>>107607799I think I saw a different video than that one, but yes, very similar construction.>>107607806Amazingly, I've seen that DIY'd:https://www.instructables.com/Making-instant-film-at-home-polaroid-55-/
>>107607856The vast majority of billionaires are soulless unfortunately. Only in incredibly rare circumstances does a human being with any redeemable qualities acquire great wealth.
>>107607799>>107607886 (Me)Maybe that was the video I saw. I definitely remember watching the fusor video from that same channel way back when.I also found this video in the recommendations, which I may have also seen and combined in my memory:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlV-2gcO0_0
>>107607394re-read the last point>a normie or a womanaka people most susceptible to marketing
>>107603053I doubt you could get a CRT comeback, but getting a company to do a run of 4:3 OLEDs or what for watching old TV shows and stuff might be doable.
