besides FOSS, why do people love Unix and Unix based OS's so much?
they are easy to program against
>>107754318They don't, except for the guy who wrote the Morris worm. Read the Unix-Haters Handbook.>>107754358Only if you ignore the Unix parts completely, which explains the popularity of Electron apps on Unix-like systems.
>>107754318*apple doesn't count
simplicity and lack of a better alternative. unix + clones vs windows nt.
>>107754318Do they? It's basically one of the two mainstream kinds of operating systems right now. Everything that's successful and actually in use somewhere is either unix(-like) or Windows NT. Unix is simple. Too simple. Every modern Unix needs to bolt on lots of custom features to be useful and they need to gimp certain poorly thought out features to avoid security nightmares. That's where its complexity comes from.
>>107754318standardization some people hate on POSIX but having a standard is better than not having one (unless its a proprietary one, then its opposite)lack of bloat so that you can customize them for your usecasepersonally "everything is a file" has been one of the most convenient OS features that ive ever used
>>107754439>which explains the popularity of Electron apps on Unix-like systemsit's just because there are a lot of webdevs and they don't want to learn anything elseif all you know is a webshit, you use webshit for everything
>>107754318I am pretty sure nobody likes UNIX, its awful.
>>107754318People are tired of Windows.
>>107754955>simplicity>>107755011>Unix is simple. Too simple.Read the POSIX or Unix standards. It's anything but simple. It's like C++ where people say "the parts I use are simple and I ignore 90% of it that I don't use." Also most of what is standard on Windows or Mac (including Classic Mac) is completely separate on Unix, so even though it's only doing 1% of what other OSes do, it's still extremely complicated. For example, there's nothing about GUI or sound in the POSIX standard, when those are basic parts of Win32 and the Macintosh. POSIX is basically equivalent to the CMD and DOS-based commands of Windows plus MSVCRT, except it's a lot more complicated.
>>107754318more tools are just built in without some jew with his hand out asking for money
>>107755497>more tools are just built in without some jew with his hand out asking for moneywell unix is commercial and linux those tools were mostly written by a jew with his hand out for donations. pick your poison.
unix isnt fossunix is a concept
>>107755414>POSIX is basically equivalent to the CMD and DOS-based commands of WindowsIt's almost as if DOS was based on UNIX...
>>107755874It's not. It's based on CP/M which is based on RT-11, TOPS-20, and other DEC OSes. The similarity is about functionality between the POSIX/UNIX "standard" and what the equivalent subset would be on Windows. POSIX is like the "DOS" parts of Windows, without any graphics or sound or modern features.
>>107754318Unix sucks. Linux would be mutch better without all that old unix shit.
buncha baby ducks, nocoders, jeets, and winshills in this thread
>>107756404Have you ever used a real Unix? Linux adds a lot of features Unix doesn't have.
>>107756480true, but you can still read all those old unix books and both learn from them and run most of the examples
>>107754955a simple OS doesn't yet exist
>>107756532Except the examples are bad and not how you should do it. Linux is bloated because it has to be compatible with wrong ways to program like null-terminated strings.
>>107754318Unix is the farthest from FOSS. There was a lawsuit, it lasted 14 years.
>>107754318In the earlier days of computing UNIX was the most common standard on corporate, industrial, institutional, and educational machines. So when people with more creative, inspired minds like Richard Stallman started "learning computers", that's what was there for them to learn about, and on, and they found it to be far more interesting than anything available on "home computers" of the era. Then him, and others of his ilk, became something like apostles of personal computing, and UNIX, and UNIX like, were /their/ platforms/tools of choice.
>>107756579well, i've read those old books, and got a lot out of themall microsoft can do is take good ideas other people invented and fuck them up in the most asinine waysall apple can do is take good ideas and neuter them*nix-based OS's are the only sane OS if you develop code
>>107756571There are a lot of simple operating systems like DOS, Classic Mac OS, Oberon, and KolibriOS. All of those have a version that can fit on a floppy. People still use DOS and FreeDOS today, and it can still run on a modern PC as long as it has BIOS compatibility. It can boot from USB too because DOS relies on the BIOS to handle disk I/O. It actually doesn't realize it's on a USB drive, which is the whole point of BIOS.
>>107756635I should also add to this, due to:>In the earlier days of computing UNIX was the most common standard on corporate, industrial, institutional, and educational machines.It also meant that those who desired to be HACKERS had to learn/know the systems that essentially everything that one would want to hack was operating on, so that's a lot of how it got worked into the more "cool guy" type of computer enthusiasts early on. But that also mean that essentially everyone who wanted to forge a career in corporate IT or any similar type path would need to learn UNIX because that's what it all ran on.
>>107754318Text is a universal interface (except 0)
>>107755296No, what he means is the Unix part is such a royal fucking mess the best way to actually make something work properly on all systems is to ship a browser which is already guaranteed to give you an environment you can program against.Of course it's also a huge advantage that you can use standard webdev tools and produce cross-platform desktop programs.
>>107756700what fucking universe are you living in?
>>107756653>all microsoft can do is take good ideas other people invented and fuck them up in the most asinine ways>all apple can do is take good ideas and neuter themExcept none of those ideas came from UNIX. UNIX also took good ideas other people invented and fucked them up in the most asinine ways and neutered them. Windows and Mac fucked them up less and neutered them a lot less than UNIX did.
>>107756670>It also meant that those who desired to be HACKERS had to learn/know the systems that essentially everything that one would want to hack was operating onThat's because UNIX systems were full of buffer overflows and memory bugs and were a lot easier to hack than other computers. The Morris worm only affected Unix systems and nothing like that would be possible on any other OS because they didn't use C and didn't have null-terminated strings.
>>107756734macos is just *nix with all the dev tools and utilities striped out. it's unusable as a dev platform.windows is just an unbelievably huge mountain of dogshit, also with absolutely fucked dev tools that take 80GB of disk space and 128GB of RAM to barely function. oh, and by the time you get things running, support has already ended and it's time to update your subscription. i'd rather eat puke out of a trashcan than develop code on a windows machine.
not to mention you have to pay for compilers on windows if you want to sell your shit legally, unless you install something like cygwin (an emulated *nix environment)
>>107756700>>107756723don't engage with him, he's brown and has brown ideas.
>>107755296>>107756700The real reason there's so many electron programs now is because it's unironically by far the best way to develop GUI applications that are not performance critical. It's also by far the best way to create cross-platform GUI applications. Every single computer that's relevant to 99% of the applications out there has a browser. So just make the UI to your application something that can be rendered in a browser and you've automatically got cross platform UI. And the best part? You don't have to deal with UI frameworks.
>>107756734>Except none of those ideas came from UNIX. UNIX also took good ideas other people invented and fucked them up in the most asinine ways and neutered them.Did multics take `everything is a file' further or something?
>>107756700You are confusing OS with user space.there is nothing inherent to UNIX that makes developing applications hard.OS X is Darwin which is UNIX and it's completely different.The problem with Linux is the GNU is ABI that isn't backwards compatible so new versions of libraries are not guaranteed to work. Either the applications should be statically linked or the ABI shouldn't break backwards compatibility.Windows has no major problems with backwards compatibility, at least it used to. But it has also the problem with their frameworks, but instead of reinventing the wheel and breaking compatibility like on Linux, they stack their new frameworks on top of earlier ones. It has so many layers, that the overhead of anything is enourmous. That's why everything is so bloated with each new version. And with Windows 11 they completely went batshit insane and started using React. I don't understand what is the point of using React if they still need to write native code to hook into system APIs. It's worse of both worlds.
>>107756861>windows>stalwart of backwards compatibility
>>107754318>besides FOSS why do people love Unix and Unix basedlmao, majority of Unix certified OS are closed source and not well known, used, or liked anymore besides MacOS (which isn't liked on /g/)GNU/Linux is not UNIX Certified
>>107756765>macos is just *nix with all the dev tools and utilities striped out. it's unusable as a dev platform.It was not originally *nix at all. The original Mac was a creative and innovative OS that really isn't similar to anything else. It was designed for Pascal.>windows is just an unbelievably huge mountain of dogshit, also with absolutely fucked dev tools that take 80GB of disk space and 128GB of RAM to barely functionBecause of the focus on C++. Modern C++ is so complex that it bloated everything up.>>107756787>not to mention you have to pay for compilers on windows if you want to sell your shit legally, unless you install something like cygwin (an emulated *nix environment)You can use Clang and GCC on Windows without any kind of cygwin, if you like C and C++, and there are a lot of other compilers for languages besides C and C++ too.
>>107756861>they stack their new frameworks on top of earlier onesJust allowing users to have multiple versions of libraries installed next to each other goes a long way. In a lot of cases, the expansion is horizontal, not vertical.>Windows 11 they completely went batshit insane and started usingThis has nothing to do with the issue really. Fucking it up with insanely retarded decisions is separate from having to support lots of things for compatibility. There is nothing about the architecture of Windows that would make it impossible to make a new version that works as well as previous versions.
>>107755866Unix is the best gaming platform I have ever used.
>>107756879>MacOS (which isn't liked on /g/)Uhhhhhhh, you sure you browse the same /g/ (a.k.a. "/asg/ - Apple shilling general - The Board") as everyone else?
>>1077569162016 destroyed this site.
I wish MacOS would start open saucing. It would be nice for everyone to study what they're actually doing to modernize Unix. Particularly in regards to security.
>>1077569212024 destroyed this site. The miggers are openly praising Jews and Israel now. They at least stayed in their containment zone prior to that
>>107757297You're not wrong. But I am was talking more about the influx of NPC sheep brained normies who push Apple on /g/, Caw of Doody on /v/, etc... shit real 4Chan would never shill.
>>107754318>why do people loveIt works on my machine
>>107754439>Only if you ignore the Unix parts completely, which explains the popularity of Electron apps on Unix-like systems.saar dont forget windows 11 saarim not sure if youre just mentally retarded or a baiter
>>107756903>the expansion is horizontal, not vertical..NET must have been build on Win32 and other frameworks were build on .NETso they went from direct Win32 and the framework that was using Win32 directly to .NET which was build on Win32 so that's stackedEven if you write crossplatform library like SDL it must be build on something native to run on that platform, SDL must be using DirectX/OpenGL for graphics, which both needed to be build on Win32And the Audio APIs might have similar hierarchy, the same as Pulseaudio uses ALSA on Linuxand OpenGL/Vulkan uses Mesa
>>107754318Freedom.
>>107756765> macos is just *nix with all the dev tools and utilities striped outSuch as?
>>107759868try something as simple as opening up a terminal on a virgin mac and compiling a small c program
use any terminal-based editor that you likei found the common ones i use not installed
>>107757421Sure, those frameworks are abstractions over the native API of the operating system. They have been trying to push .NET and they've kinda doubled down on it, but they still keep adding extra bullshit. They also have the ancient .NET Framework set in stone into Windows and supported indefinitely, while .NET Core, which people actually use, gets basically no LTS support, so fuck this seriously.But making the MSVC standard library modular is an example for horizontal expansion. That part is actually well designed, unlike the mess that is Linux.
>>107754318you can mix and match components easily
>>107763048windows is beyond hope. it's such a garbage os, holy shit
>>107754439>Read the Unix-Haters Handbook.spbp
>>107754318It's an in-group marker, although increasingly less so with gaymers running badoop or whatever that fucking shit is called and macfags fagging their Macs faggily
>>107756879huawei certified their linux distro around 2017, so it was unix certified
>>107762172Without having installed Xcode or whatever the more minimal version of that install is called (can’t remember), that wouldn’t work. It’s not that different from needing to do something like ‘apt install build-essential’ on a new Linux machine. Most desktop users will not need the compilers etc., so leaving it as optional seems like a good deal to me, that’s a few GB of disk otherwise wasted on those users.Compare to commercial Unix: those didn’t necessarily come with compilers included, or even as a no-fee install.
>>107754318Because they are retards. https://rentry.co/g7aofwhc
>>107764859Feel free to fork it and do according to your grand genius vision for how it should have all been done to begin with.
>>107764852
>>107764852>Without having installed Xcodeexactly. all the dev tools have been stripped out of mac.i've never come across another *nix system that has been so neutered.apple wants people to consume products in a walled garden, not do something icky like develop their own programs.when i discovered that i had to install xcode on an ancient mac, it downloaded 10s of GB of something that never worked. i gave up and tried doing the dev on a linux box instead. unfortunately the hardware i was using at the time didn't have a driver that worked, so the project stalled.things like gcc and standard libraries take up a modest amount of space, are fast, and work.
