>>107778411
>i would literally rather master VIM
Good. That or emacs is better than this garbage.

>>107778450
Sar I see you typed a comment in a workspace that is not trusted, would you like to trust this workspace?

>>107778411
Briefly worked with some undergrad CS students. Every single one used this. I don’t care what you use but I hate seeing a single program become take over. And if anyone is going to be particular about software you would hope it would be software developers yet everyone who needs a text editors defaults to this like it’s the sole option

>>107778493
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_(psychology)#baby_duck_syndrome

There hasn't ever been a single actually good editor program yet
Yeah, you can kind of use emacs and this, but they both suck in their own ways

>>107778521
you're a nigger
>>107778493
There are a hundred posers for one serious coder out there. It's grim.

>>107778493
there is nothing better
>>107778411
>i would literally rather master VIM
vim is slow af. i watched some vim wizardry, they're as fast as john doe with a mouse

>>107778411
>i would literally rather master VIM
Why don't you?

>>107778493
I used to use Atom. I liked Atom. But Atom died. Apparently VSCode killed it, or so I've heard. VSCode was the closest next thing at hand.

>>107778521
I've only heard good things about Sublime by people who've used it. Only bad thing is it costs money.

>>107781137
You can use it freely. It's nagware like WinRAR. Very fast, uses minimal resources and is highly customizable. Only thing that's missing is an integrated terminal like in VSCode. Whatever Sublime has last time I checked was abysmal. I know that there are packages that fix this, but I feel like an integrated terminal should come bundled with a code editor.

>>107778411
Closest thing I ever used was zed, which isn't vim, so I topped using it. Will never use vs code. All non-vim editors aren't real.

>>107778411
Re-
>and the whole 'trust workspace' thing is the gayest shit ive ever seen.
Understable.

vs code is fine, you're all just elitist contrarian faggots

>>107778411

if you want a graphical editor use zed, fr its fast af

>>107781205

I was a sublime user for the longest time
Switched to zed recently, and its better
Fr love zed

>>107781452
>rust
>AI code editor
>GPU hog
>macfag-first, other OSs are an afterthought

>>107778411
VS Code is:
>light enough, even if there are lighter solutions
>snappy enough, even if there are snappier things
>comfortable enough for most people, even though many prefer something else
>popular, supported, and actively shilled enough so you can customize and expand it to function as a dedicated IDE, even if it might not be as good as some dedicated IDEs
>"the current thing" enough that when a dev stack emerges, supporting it via VS Code is high-priority
>free

>>107781496
So, while most complaints people have about VS Code often aren't wrong (even if some are stupid), it's still a Swiss Army knife of text editors that can do virtually anything.
It's incredible versatile, supports weird and unconventional stacks, tickles a similar tweaking and customization autism Linux does, and its ubiquity means that despite changing teams, dev stacks, jobs, etc., there's one familiar tool you get to keep using, and most devs like that.

>>107781516
I used to run VS Code on Windows, ssh it to a Hyper-V VM, where my dev env was running on Debian. Needed some tinkering but not too much.
Then they released WSL2, I started running it there. Configured YubiKey passthrough to sign my commits, all jazz. VS Code setup took like two clicks.
Now on mac, working in Docker, running a language server, can use breakpoints and run individual specs like I'm a JS dev or something. VS Code just handles everything after some setup.

>>107781496
>>107781516
>>107781528
These posts were written in VS Code.
And I'm fucking glad I did so, because my PC literally just crashed while I was writing them, lmao.

lots of microslop shills (jeets) itt

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>>107778509
I was going to edit the section to call you gay but they already blocked me

>>107778493
>but I hate seeing a single program become take over
Because you're terminally unemployed, anon.

I don't understand how this one specifically got so popular. It's an extremely unperformant Electron app and in typical Neo Microsoft fashion the settings interface is fuck you edit a JSON file. If it had some uniquely good features or workflow that would be one thing but all the "extensions" just get you basic-bitch autocomplete or an LSP, which any editor could do.

>>107778493
idk whats exactly wrong with using an IDE? i like IDEs because they offer me a good enough easy solution to do several things quickly.

why is it suddenly a good practice to spend hours to modify some "text" editor to your liking with all of these debugging hooks, folder structure GUIs etc. yet its bad when a program just gives it to you out of the box.

>>107782687
its because its free and gives you an easy out of the box environment to code and debug.

>>107782687
>I don't understand how this one specifically got so popular.
Because it started off as a functional Sublime alternative that doesn't ask you to buy it.
And now it has extensions for everything so it can do everything so people use it to do everything.
>>107782803
>idk whats exactly wrong with using an IDE? i like IDEs because they offer me a good enough easy solution to do several things quickly.
Nothing is wrong with using IDEs, but with them being big, robust, all-in-one solutions they often can be inflexible at weird points.
Like Visual Studio (the actual IDE) still doesn't have per-line in-editor git blame support and instead wants you to use its unwieldy Annotate feature.

>>107782687
jeets + 0 config required
>>107781496
>yes it's worse in every metric but it's popular
neck yourself

>>107782899
>reading comprehension
It's not the best in any specific metric (aside from adoption rate and such).
But it's easily in top #5 for virtually everything, which isn't something you can say for any other editor.

>>107782940
>>reading comprehension
>parrots my summary
Good work dinesh, very innovative

>>107782687
>If it had some uniquely good features
it has them
>or workflow
it has those as well
>but all the "extensions" just get you basic-bitch autocomplete
no, you don't really know what you're talking about
>or an LSP, which any editor could do.
most editors can't integrate LSPs to the level VS Code can.

>>107783015
>no argument
>ad hominem
I accept your concession.

>>107783048
Logical Fallacies are good between moral, upright white men. They aren't relevant when "conversing" (bargaining, really) with a person with high melanin content

>>107778493
I would use emacs but it's too keyboard driven for me
I can use vim, but I fucking hate modal editing and it has the same problem as emacs
sublime exists, but the module system is complete dogshit and its only real upside is how fast it is
lite-xl exists AND is very attractive, but it's still somewhat early and lacks a lot of basic stuff like code folding
then you have a bunch of new crap that is some play on vs code, but with llm integration. shit like that. i don't care about these, they don't matter.

vscode is very extensible, has good maturity and is reasonably configurable and extensible. even though I don't think the extension system is anything to write home about, it's better than sublime's and it has a much more useful repository of packages.

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>>107782687
>It's an extremely unperformant Electron app
it's perfectly performant though
probably the biggest critique i can give it is that discoverability of settings and configuration is a fucking nightmare. the best resource is random posts on microsoft's support forum, and half the time they're ancient and the relevant setting has been moved/changed for some ungodly reason.

>>107780995
not a very good wizard then because the mouse also works in vim

>>107782803
IDEs aren't language agnostic, they're not even build-system agnostic. Some C/C++ IDEs are getting better at that last point, I think clion has support for compile_commands.json? That's an outlier.

I'd rather just have a single program for editing text that has more or less every feature of an IDE, but without the restrictions. You pay the cost for this in performance and memory footprint, but it's not even noticable unless you're using shit like doom emacs.

If IDEs work for you, that's great anon. For me personally, where I work across a bunch of different languages (most of which don't even have an extant IDE, some of which don't even have an language server) I prefer the extensible text editor.

>>107783118
>new crap that is some play on vs code, but with llm integration
there is also new crap written from scratch to be highly performant, like Zed, but it also has llm shit

>>107783218
Vim is not designed for mouse usage. Yes, vim and neovim have mouse support. They both suck though because they're designed around modal editing with the keyboard.

>>107781466
works great on microslop and you can turn off the llm stuff

It's reasonably intuitive, but that's a retarded argument to begin with, as people customize it and install the extensions that matter to them like vim.
The directory-driven style is a great middle ground between fully formal IDEs where you need to configure your build before you can even get started like Visual Studio, and vim which is simply a file editor at heart. And the base extensions have matured to the point where it almost gives you a fully featured IDE through automatic file discovery alone, with zero project level configs.
I started using it myself due to the godlike remote development features, and they've only improved through the years.

>>107778411
it just works. I will keep using it.
>unintuitive
no shit. you need to start using it for a while to build intuition.
>i would literally rather master VIM
lmao, we'll see how this works for you if vscode already filters you.

I use Kate and it just werks and

>>107781528
>Now on mac, working in Docker
you should switch to nix-darwin

>>107783254
I could have phrased that better, because I'm including Zed in it. This class of editors I consider to have parity with VS Code (slightly worse package repo, but not a big deal at all), but they don't really have any meaningful advantages. Zed is certainly faster and has a lower memory footprint than VS Code, but this hasn't ever been an issue for me. In principle it's nice, but in practice it's never been a problem I've had where VS Code is sluggish. Sublime text technically belongs to this class as well, but the extensions situation is really bad there.

Realistically, I'm waiting for Lite-XL to get a little bit more mature and I'll switch to that. I really like the principle of emacs as an editor operating system built out of a scripted core, configured in the same language that 99% of the editor is written in. What I don't like about emacs though is how keyboard-driven it is. Lite-XL has the same blend of mouse and keyboard I get from VS Code, while having the extensibility of emacs (with a better designed core imo). That's a real, pragmatic advantage I don't get from VS Code that almost no other editor seems to give a shit about.

>>107783262
you can change the cursor position, scroll like normal and select text, what else do yoy want from a mouse nigga

I use Textadept and it just werks and

>>107783334
it's a work laptop, anon.

>>107783365
>What I don't like about emacs though is how keyboard-driven it is
You use the mouse? disgusting.

>>107783390
and those block program installation?

>>107778411
I've used it for like 10 years or something, it gets worse... slower... with every update

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For me, it's CudaText. It's everything VSCode should be.

>>107783365
what exactly do you miss from mouse support in emacs? I have right click menu's, tabs, sidebar file explorer, etc. shit taste btw

>>107783409
Well, first, yes, they do.
Second, even if they didn't, that'd still go against company's policy.
Third, I literally cannot care less about customizing my macOS experience.

>>107783375
More of the editor workflow to be represented in mouse-centric and mouse-compatible menus, rather than the mouse functionality being mostly a bolted-on concession.
Most commands aren't mouse-accessible, chords generally don't open a drop down that works with the mouse, etc.
Even something like mousemacs doesn't really do much to fix it, though it does cover some important basics. The unfortunate fact of the matter is, emacs and its ecosystem are keyboard-centric to a degree I don't like. It's perfectly sensible, considering the history of the program, but it's a deal breaker for me all the same.

>>107783440
Whoa.
Anon is programming in JSON.

>>107783453
>Well, first, yes, they do.
thats a bummer, was hoping to job hop away from microslop

>>107783444
ctrl-click to traverse a usage -> definition -> declaration hierarchy, as one specific example. Consistent and useful context menus. Even something as simple as drag and drop tends to be inconsistent or awkward.
It also has a lot to do with culture. Emacs is at its best when you extend it, and the support extensions will have for mouse workflows is something that's got a 75% chance to be abysmal.

There's a lot you can fix with configuration, extension and modification, but after many years of trying I just sort of stopped using it because I just don't like the de-facto ergonomics of the program. I can change it, but I'm effectively swimming upstream at all times. Speaking of taste, I scarcely consider emacs users to have better taste than vim users. Thy kind are all of a piece ;-)

>>107783491
To be fair, it depends on the company.
At my previous job, everyone was using company macs while I was running my Windows + Debian (first under Hyper-V, then under WSL2) thing.
I was open about it and made sure I don't shit up master with things specific to my environment, so no one was against it.
At the current one, though, I have to use company hardware for work, and I'm limited in what I can install on it. In fact, App Store doesn't even fucking work, which is very stupid, because sideloading generally does.
I had to figure out a modern way to download Xcode without using App Store because actually making a formal request for it sounded like even more of a pain in the ass.

>install zed
>it doesnt even have syntax highlighting for lua
lol into the trash it goes

>>107781137
I'm php/laravel dev and Sublime was my go to, but requires too much tinkering, VSCode just werks

>>107782687
>the settings interface is fuck you edit a JSON file
to filter non-coders, i guess

>>107781126
Atom was github’s editor. I used it briefly and liked it before I’d even heard of vscode and it seemed generally well liked. It was fully opensource and obviously had good git integration. Annoyingly they marketed it as the hackerable text editor. As if it was unusual to be able to hack your editor or if it was even as easy to hack it as other editors. Microsoft bought github and naturally “deprecated” atom once they controlled it in favor of vscode. Admittedly it would be pretty weird having them maintain both given how similar they were but I still think it’s lame.

>>107782803
Nothing wrong with IDE and that was never mentioned in my comment. For one the concept of IDE is much less distinct than it used to be. IDE’s used to be specific to a language or a small number of languages used together and took a lot of work to make something with much more functionality than a standard text editor. Arguably there were always a blurred line, like ESS (emacs speaks statistics) is a great IDE for R and others and Julia used atom as the basis for their main IDE. But now LSP exists and any editor that supports it (vscode, emacs, sublime, vim, zed, helix, etc) is an IDE for all languages with a good LSP server without extra work. So wanting variety in software has nothing to do with being against IDEs. The reasons you don’t want a single program dominating is 1. It removes choice for those who want it 2. The community because dependent on a single point of failure, if the developers start doing things the community doesn’t like you have little out (not that microsoft would ever say put a paywall on the editor everyone has been dependent on or start integrating onedrive) 3. Less creativity, the community ports cool packages from other editors all the time, sometimes packages are more obvious for one editor in the first place (same thing with languages, a language’s style can make a given solution much more obvious than if you were working in another language).

>>107782803
>why is it suddenly a good practice to spend hours to modify some "text" editor to your liking
Nothing sudden about it. It’s written about in “pragmatic programmer” published in 1999 and undoubtedly the Emacs community has made the same arguments as long as Emacs has been around. These are your tools as a developer. The text editor and a few others are what you use for most everything you do. Once you found one that works for you, you will benefit from it for decades. It’s worth the few month investment to find one you can really make your own and learn how to mold it to your use case.

>>107784700
I get why they say this, but I find vscode and other editors so clunky compared to Intellij or visual studio. And it doesn't help that most of them are bloated like vscode or keyboard only editors with a very high barrier to entry.

>>107784416
atom was an attempt at making a modern emacs. it had so many cool features, like integrated rss and attempts at making a mail client. not to mention you could navigate html documentation inside of it.

>>107783251
this.
eclipse/jetbrain require that some of the dependencies you use have special programs that plug into the IDE's backend to get basic lints (e.g lombok). you can write 100% valid java code that won't get lints/completions at all if you don't write a per-ide package for it.

visual studio is dogshit if you're not writing msvc's c/c++. it only recently started supporting cmake, by translating your cmakelists to a proprietary build system which is not 100% compatible, so some features will bar you from using your build system entirely.
qtcreator has similar issues, though qt acts more as a framework, so qmake makes more sense.

clion now supports compile_commands because it relies on clangd/ccls to provide lints/completions. at this point it's barely any better than using an editor + lsp setup.
rover has it's own problems too because rust-analyzer isn't 100% compatible with the up-to-date rust specs (especially the bleeding edge stuff like proc_macro_spans). you're often forced to make a custom version of your code to tell the lang server how to behave (e.g #[cfg(not(rust_analyzer))])

using the langserver approach has it's own problems too. for c/c++ the goto servers are clangd and ccls, but they don't support gnuc and it's really complicated to tell them that you're using glibc and not clang's libc. the specs are also terrible, they force all communications to use UTF-16 for positions inside the text buffer, which nobody in the world (expects microsoft) uses anymore. overall, I think langserver is the least worse approach. because even gnu make can generate a compliant index for clangd and it gets the same lints/completion/actions across multiple editors, so that reduces the vendor lock in.

>>107783172
>performant
it's really not.
you can barely open sqlite's source file in it. when you start editing, there's a 50-200ms delay between every key strokes. it also hogs resources like crazy. it's 500+MB while doing nothing, then you can add anywhere between 1-10GB when using a language extension like intellisense or rust-analyzer

>>107778411
>thing that appeals to everyone appeals to everyone

Yeah i still shit around in vim over vscode but what did you expect ??

>>107783466
Sorry I write code using the keyboard.
I don't even have a mouse plugged in at work and the crappy magic mouse from 10 years ago doesn't work on 1/2 desks

>>107787208
Why are you getting defensive about it?

>>107778411
Just learn vim or emacs and you'll be set for very likely the rest of your career. Absolutely nothing comes close.

>>107787183
>you can barely open sqlite's source file in it
Surely you don't actually think it can't handle ~300k lines of code?
You aren't talking about trying to open the binary file, are you?

>when you start editing, there's a 50-200ms delay between every key strokes
200 ms is 1/5 of a second, anon.
VS Code might take this long to render that 300k lines of code file, but to pretend that's a key stroke delay is just silly.
VS Code is not the most performant editor out there, but it doesn't have human-perceivable UX delay unless you're severely bottlenecked somewhere else, and in all dev stacks that make sense you WILL be bottlenecked somewhere else.
I was running VS Code on an M2 MacBook with 8 GB of RAM for a Docker workflow (i.e. there's not enough memory to do shit), and VS Code did not have perceivable input delay. Like, its Dev Container server would crash sometimes due to running OOM, but when it worked - it worked.
>it also hogs resources like crazy. it's 500+MB while doing nothing, then you can add anywhere between 1-10GB when using a language extension like intellisense or rust-analyzer
That's true. Client itself is like 300~400 MB, throwing in the BE with a few extensions can make it bloat to 1~2 GB quite easily.
I'm yet to see anything close to 10 GB ever happening but I believe it's possible for huge-ass enterprise code bases after you index them with an LSP. But by that point it's not really a VS Code issue - it's an LSP issue.

Anon's point was that it's performant enough.
99.9% people on this board never encounter a situation where VS Code real performance pitfalls would even become perceivable.
It's not ridiculous imaginary shit like
>ackchyually, I have to wait 1/5 of a second to input one symbol in VS Code
but stuff like the pace at which terminal would render output when you send several kilobytes of text into it.
Truly performant solutions would do that near instantly, the one in VS Code will take a few seconds because it's not as performant.

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Why do (you) need (((more)))?

Because I'm not unemployed

Zed is pretty good

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>>107790575
doubt

>>107790499
deprecated by microshite's edit

>>107790919
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
Fuck off level 10 microjeet shill.
Edit will be a react (((app)) using gigabytes of ram by the end of the year.

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>>107778411

Better

>>107781542
Then they'd talk about regular VS not VS Code.

>>107778411
softwares have dicks too?

>>107778411
If you can’t use a basic text editor meant for the normiest of normies you might actually be mentally handicapped.

>>107781441
meme for web devs,
Use Kate Editor

>>107784161
why not phpstorm?

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>>107778411
+Just works
+Not LSP dependent, somehow
+Text manipulation feature
+Save history by default
+Weeb friendly
The only real downside of this editor is that it’s electron based, but overall it’s a good editor i'm using sublime tho
>i would literally rather master VIM
If you just want to learn macros and key bindings, you don’t need to use vim itself, lol

>>107783118
>lite-xl
seems interesting

>>107778493
Do you think that the quality of undergrad students has declined or stayed the same?

>>107783596
If you like Linux enough that you even have a favorite distro, why use Windows at all instead of installing Linux on bare metal?

>>107783118
>too keyboard driven
I genuinely don't understand how a text editor could be too keyboard driven. But then I'm an Emacs user, so maybe that's expected.