What is /g/'s opinion on this? I used to see Wayland as this premature, non-necessary replacement for X11 being pushed by the globohomo, kind of like Rust is to C, but after looking into it, it seems like it is actually a much more sensible and simple solution.
I use Wayland because x11 fucks up importing Factorio prints.
I like wayland because it triggers /g/
>>107910323>it seems like it is actually a much more sensible and simple solutionwhat pushed you to this? is it the "implement what you need" model?
>>107910323X11 has more software, is easier to develop for, and is better for network applications. X11 vvon
>>107910323I use Debian stable desktop and x11 works fine. Maybe I'll migrate to gayland in 10 years or so
I'll switch over to X11 once it has automatic hardware-agnostic vsync on all desktop environments, HDR support, VRR support without hacks, support for mixed-refresh monitors where the refresh rates are not multiples/factors of each other, and doesn't make the compositor go apeshit in fullscreen applications.
>>107910387>network applicationsWhat does the display server have to do with network shit?
>>107910402Xlibre has most of this already
>>107910419X11 operates on a client server model, so you can run X11 applications over a network.
>>107910429>Xlibre has most of this alreadyWhich ones? The "roadmap" part of their github page doesn't actually list anything.
>>107910419AFAIK x11 was originally designed for mainframes and terminals in the 80s where the mainframe would actually run the x11 server and the terminals would run the clients/applications. It still can be used like this today, although I don't know of anybody who does because even mini PCs are powerful enough to run their own x11 servers locally. It always confused me when I was first starting to use Linux why a display "server" was even necessary if I was running a powerful offline machine.
>>107910439>>107910387blud really thinks that this did not stop being relevant after everyone moved away from motif and coDo you really think it's actually better to send uncompressed bitmaps rendered by qt and gtk is any better than RDP or VNC?
>>107910323i use wayland because it's the default in my distro
>>107910402> compositorThe compositor is demonic and should not exist.
>>107910347>I use Wayland because x11 fucks up importing Factorio prints.orly?xlibre is actually actively developed (form of x11 with great focus) report bug to them they will fix>>107910387>X11 vvonyes, but the fixes fork - xlibrex11 is seemingly on purpose drowned by current "developers" of it
>>107910492there are remote services like x2go that leverage X11s client-server capabilities while also being VNC. it's good to have that stuff available because it helps with integration.
>>107910323I hope xorg and wayland die a gruesome death, only to have phoeniX rise from its ashes
I use x11 because the software I need for work doesn't support wayland.
x11 is ZOG
The difference is illusory at this point. Xorg uses the same infrastructure under the hood and is basically just a wrapper at the expense of X11isms. See libinput, modesetting, etc.
>>107910547forums.factorio.com/116367
>>107910623wayland is actually ZOG and has kikes like drew devault and a bunch of massive corporations backing it.
Reminder that Wayland is 17 years old now. Seventeen. That's as much as ten plus seven. Legal to fuck in most of the world.After seven-and-ten years in development, this project specifically designed to replace X11, is finally slowly becoming able to replace X11 (though not fully). It only managed to get there by reinventing X11 extension hell (but worse), and creating a bunch of new complexity to implement basic functionality (such as the whole portals thing).
I use wayland because I play video games and browse the internet on my computer. I don't need whatever niche cases X11 is necessary for.
>>107911660does it actually work for you? Every time I've tried it has been super fucked up
I live in x11 household, I disowned my son when he tried wayland, daughter is tied in basement until she learns EFWH standards, dog is trained to smell hyperland dotfiles
>>107911699checked
linuxtards should start be honest to themselves and realize that (A) Wayland is based on X11(B) X11 is considered bad designwho said (B)? (A) said, not me (though i can too). so the situation is like pic related.
>>107911660>I play video games and browse the internet on my computer.The fractional scaling shit show in waymeme fucks with font rendering and full screen rendering in games.
>>107911673Yes. it does work. I don't know what kind of possible things could be "fucked up", but I haven't seen anything I'd describe like that.>>107911833I do not have use case for whatever that is. Games work fine both fullscreen and windowed fullscreen (which I strongly prefer)
>>107911817>>Wayland is based on X11said no one but /g/ shills ever
>>107910323I want to like Wayland and move over to it but it has many real issues that instead of being fixed, resources are allocated to screaming down anyone who mentions them. If the Wayland folks would simply stop playing defense all the time and just fix what's broken or needs to be added, most people would naturally move to it. Instead everything must be a war and anyone who refuses to deny the reality of the current state of Wayland is seen as an enemy instead of a free QA tester.
>>107911430That's where you post things if you think Factorio should fix the issue. If x11 is the actual problem, you need to go to x11 to get that fixed. They're not going to see some random post on the Factorio board.
>>107912137protocol basedcentral entity (server) based
>>107912272Of course it will be a client-server model. That's how they all work. Being protocol based is indeed dumb though. Should just be an API.
Wayland sucks for the simple reason that it's less powerful. It can never replace X11 because it cannot have network transparency. X11 was designed with network transparency in mind.
>>107912325I used X11 actually over network (ssh -X) and it was dog-fucking super slow, over internet (a typical office like program)
>>107912340SSH was never designed for speed, anon. Also, slow is better than nothing. Wayland can't even do it without some bullshit ducktape addon and even then it's broken for most things.
>>107912371>SSH was never designed for speed, anon.ssh is the fast patr, X11 is what is fucking slow.it's pretty retardedand seems modern UI toolkits make this even worse(?)perhaps something that might be corrected?
>>107912407XLibre is in development. X11 with ssh over my LAN works perfect, I can stream 1080p just fine with ssh so I'll assume it's your network that sucks.
I've heard redhat troons gatekeep x11 from contributions or something so they can push Wayland more efficiently. Xlibre will obviously lack support for corpo shit and Wayland will become the new main thing while X11 slowly withers under the tyranny of corpotroons. Sad!
>>107912495>I've heard redhat troons gatekeep x11 from contributions or something so they can push Wayland more efficiently. Xlibre will obviously lack support for corpo shit and Wayland will become the new main thing while X11 slowly withers under the tyranny of corpotroons. Sad!so just switch to xlibre
>>107910323Wayland and Rust are obviously both backdoored by the NSA (in particular, the NSA owns Red Hat). Same with systemd. If you don't give a shit, you know, go ahead and run this poisoned trojanware.
>>107912288actually it looks as advancement for rendering, i consulted AI and it showed me some code examples with API calls. so protocols were relaxed.though theres another "problem" in those outputs - AI says it goes the windows way, like after 2009 windows GPU way.. and ama big sceptic about those
>>107910323Do people still use x11? It literally enabled keylogging. I installed Debian 13 on my other machine and GNOME and KDE default to wayland, Ubuntu defaults to Wayland, Fedora defaults to Wayland and Arch defaults to Wayland.>People have to actively enable x11 to use it and every distro out there tells you to stick to wayland, what is wrong with you??? Fucking faggots just use wayland.
>>107912670indecipherable esl post
>>107912679>Do people still use x11? It literally enabled keylogging.XLibre works on fix to that.How ever, you need to also run each program in container (on same user) otherwise any your program can take over your entire user and keylog on any UI (e.g. poison bashrc)
>>107910323Wayland supports features on my high end monitor on PC that X11 doesn't. So I'm using it in order to get the most out of my hardware. What's so hard to understand?
>>107912717Alright, but why exactly xlibre instead of wayland? Woudln't it be better to contribute to that? Every distro that offers GNOME and KDE defaults to Wayland now and it seems like this is "le future" I remember obs and discord screen sharing problems, but that's solved. The only thing that pisses me off is drag and drop on some apps.
>>107912773>Alright, but why exactly xlibre instead of wayland?nta but no dwm on Wayland>dwlawful and unmaintained as of last week
>>107910323As long as the GUI shows up on my screen I don't really give a fuck how it got there.
Wayland is better overall, but it does have trade-offs.
>>107913448>>107913454>>107910323p.s. in reality the one that has more tearing is Wayland?
>>107910429>Xlibre has most of this alreadywhy do you retards post this fanfiction? post proof.
>>107910323I've been on bspwm for almost a decade, I'm only switching to wayland because i recently got an oled panel and want hdr support.It does perform better and feels less "hacky", though fractional scaling is shit compared to xft.dpi.For that reason i don't use fractional scaling and if i can't scale program through qt, gtk or it's own settings, i use xwayland with xft.dpi.
>>107913544Both can tear and be tearfree, if it tears and you don't want it to its a skill issue.
>>107912679Your machine defaults to Windows, you literally had to enable Linux to use it. Every computer manufacturer out there tells you to stick to Windows, what is wrong with you??? Fucking faggot just use Windows.
>>107911673t. only uses Xfce
>>107910323i have stayed with x it just works
>>107916627gnome and kde plasma 6 were both fucked, straight up didn't even know xfce had wayland support.
>>107912773Waytards are religiously apposed to implementing the missing features. Wayland is working exactly as intended. Also, Wayland is so fundamentally broken, that fixing it would require scrapping the whole thing and starting over.
>>107917639>Waytards are religiously apposed to implementing the missing featuresWhich features are missing? And which of the following features have been implemented into XLibre?>automatic hardware-agnostic vsync on all desktop environments>HDR>multimonitor setups where the refresh rates are not multiples/factors of each other
>>107911430>SDL2 does not support the mechanism required to transfer large clipboard contents on X11, but this has been fixed for SDL3.>In other words, the only way to fix it is to switch to Wayland, or wait for us to update to SDL3 at some unknown point in the future.SDL issue, faggot.
>>107917722Whatever, idgaf. Switching to Wayland fixes the issue. Beyond that I don't care where you point the finger, and I don't care if the issue is ever fixed, because Wayland 100% works.
>>107910323Wayland (Gamescope) for gaymes, X11 for everything else.
>>107912717news flash faggotwayland doesn't defend against bashrc poisoning eitherin fact, neither wayland or x11 have ANY actual security modelwayland is 100% just security theater and gnigger wank
>>107917887Wayland may be wank, but it's wank that works with HDR.
>>107910323>Wayland>simple solutionlollmao even.it does work though, if you have a good compositor. personally rooting for phoenix to win in the end, even while using wayland right now (mostly for sunshine/moonlight with different server/client resolutions).
>>107917892lol, lmaolast i checked (a few months ago) it's still mostly broken, hardly working, barely even used by games to begin with, and FUBAR on nvidia
>>107917911Works on my machine. Maybe you should stop using Xfce as your testbed for Wayland.
Genuinely convinced the only niggers that like X11 are broke bums that use hardware that wasn't considered modern even 15 years ago.
>>107910323XLibre is the future
