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File: its-fucking-back-baby.gif (102 KB, 1274x511)
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jQuery is back! edition.

>Free beginner resources to get started with HTML, CSS and JS
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn - MDN is your best friend for fundamentals
https://web.dev/learn/ - Guides by Google, you can also learn concepts like Accessibility, Responsive Design etc
https://eloquentjavascript.net/Eloquent_JavaScript.pdf - A modern introduction to JavaScript
https://javascript.info/ - Quite a good JS tutorial
https://flukeout.github.io/ - Learn CSS selectors in no time
https://flexboxfroggy.com/ and https://cssgridgarden.com/ - Learn flex and grid in CSS

>Resources for backend languages
https://nodejs.org/en/learn/getting-started/introduction-to-nodejs - An intro to Node.js
https://www.phptutorial.net - A PHP tutorial
https://dev.java/learn/ - A Java tutorial
https://rentry.org/htbby - Links for Python and Go
https://quii.gitbook.io/learn-go-with-tests - Learn Go with Tests

>Resources for miscellaneous areas
https://github.com/bradtraversy/design-resources-for-developers - List of design resources
https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials - Usually the best guides for everything server related

>Need help? Create an example and post the link
https://jsfiddle.net - if you need help with HTML/CSS/JS
https://3v4l.org - if you need help with PHP/HackLang
https://codesandbox.io - if you need help with React/Angular/Vue

/wdg/ may or may not welcome app development discussion. You can post and see what the response is.
Some app technologies of course have overlap with web dev, like React Native, Electron, and Flutter.

We have our own website: https://wdg-one.github.io

Submit your project progress updates using this format in your posts, the scraper will pick it up:

:: my-project-title ::
dev:: anon
tools:: PHP, MySQL, etc.
link:: https://my.website.com
repo:: https://github.com/user/repo
progress:: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet

Previous: >>107869830
>>
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Note: I don't see anything worthy in the new release, but they dropped some backwards compatibility. Not sure how to feel about it. Just confused I guess.
>>
>>107948898
>>107948911
My feelings are that jQuery is deprecated. It's like XHTML. No need for that shit anymore.
>>
>>107949012
no doubt, but maybe they're planning to actually do something with it this time, why else would they drop backwards compatibility?
>>
>>107949049
Dunno. If I see jQuery doing impressive modern things, and becoming relevant again in the industry, maybe I'll look at it.
>>
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>>107949087
yeah that would actually be the point
about that, jQuery has some function that grabs a form and makes a cool ass object off it, BUT, I've seen a /wdg/ anon do that in vanilla, I went and looked for it on the net and on the objects and couldn't figure out how to do just that
>>
if your web app is so complex that you can't code it with vanilla js, it's too complex and you need to start over from scratch
>>
>>107949119
>jQuery has some function that grabs a form and makes a cool ass object off it
What's wrong with just using the FormData API
>>
>>107949170
I did some searches on what you're suggesting, pretty sure a single js method spat the full object with no extras needed, maybe I'm getting lost on google and gpt but I don't see formData doing that
>>
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I'm too sleepy so I'll bump before I forget
>>
>>107948898
Should I just roll OAuth 2.1 myself using the spec or should I use some framework? I use Go.

Here is a good video about OAuth 2.1 btw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9DJzVJD_vg
>>
I think only chance for me to make it is to start my own business

just gotta get an idea haha
>>
>>107948898
>jQuery is back!
and nobody uses it
>>
Should you:

a) Enforce data validity at the application level, not the database level. You check data validity before anything is sent to the database. Disadvantage is that someone could enter invalid data if they connect directly to the database, and that invalid data could break your app.

b) Enforce data validity at the database level, not the application level. Invalid data can never be inserted. Perhaps a disadvantage is that the id will be incremented even if an insert fails. Your id column could be incremented a lot due to failed inserts with invalid data.

c) Enforce data validity at BOTH the application and database level. Your id column won't increment on failed inserts because you're validating at the application level, and invalid data can never be inserted. Disadvantage is duplication of logic; this logic could become out of sync.
>>
Let's be honest here, we never needed more than jquery. I'm glad the King is back.
>>
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>>107954580
>nobody uses it
>>
>>107955465
now all that is left is for the king to put nice new features in the table for us to use and revolutionize js one more time, in the meantime, and sadly, it's fucking nothing
>>
>>107949012
>My feelings are that jQuery is deprecated.

Not necessarily. It's VERY easy and straightforward to use unlike the utter retardation that is Javascript, and it can do some things that you still cannot fucking do natively even today like cleaning off all event listeners from an element (only way to do it is to replace it with its own innerHTML). There's a native function to remove all event listeners but apparently it's nonstandard and only works if you have the javascript console opened, so basically useless. jQuery's solution to this is barbaric since it works by internally logging all listeners to a global variable including anonymous functions, and then if you tell it to remove all listeners it just iterates through every function saved in this global variable.

t. wrote my own jquery clone that just has a very simple queryselector (jQuery uses some library that comes out to like 40% of jQuery's total size), the syntax candy for foreach/DOM manipulation/attribute and css editing, and the event listener implementation. I think it's around 22k minified. No animation/ajax though.
>>
>>107955421
I solved this by setting up a database column object which is basically just the column properties (varchar/int/whatever, length, isnull, unsigned, etc), and has a validator that checks all the above for any data input and trims fields if they are too long. For ex. if you have a varchar(8) and you pass a 12 character long input, it returns the first 8 characters. It also has a method to output html input elements with appropriate minlength / maxlength set up.

only downside is that it lacks character encoding support so multibyte stuff can break it, and if you process the data (for ex. bbcode) then the length check can get all sorts of broken.
>>
>>107955502
jQuery is like WordPress - widely used, but crap

>>107955567
Surely everything done by jQuery can be done with vanilla JS, without having to include a big library of crap in your front-end
>>
>>107955421
I think you need both, for reasons you stated, it's sloppy to rely on DB layer for validations, yet is needed, and it's comfy to rely on FE validation yet is bypassable
so you use both, somebody correct me if I'm wrong
>>
>>107955627
>Surely everything done by jQuery can be done with vanilla JS, without having to include a big library of crap in your front-end

Read my post again, I gave a specific example of something that cannot be done in vanilla JS. That's not counting that jQuery syntax is non-retarded, unlike vanilla JS.

and 22k of JS is peanuts in modern web. I have twice that in just polyfills.
>>
>>107955421
>f they connect directly to the database
Why would this ever happen in a web app? The entire point of the web app is to act as an API to the DB and handle the views.

>Your id column won't increment on failed inserts
Your DB won't commit the transaction if validation fails.

You're overthinking this way too much for someone that doesn't know shit about what they're thinking about.
>>
>>107955887
>>f they connect directly to the database
>Why would this ever happen in a web app?
nta, but somebody with bad intentions would easily fit the bill
>>
>>107955915
You'd have to intentionally make this possible by making a SPA that directly controls the DB from the client side (no api web app in between) or something.
>>
>>107955502
fake data from outdated site
>>
>>107955627
I'd 100% rather land on a site with jQuery than any modern front end abomination.
>>
>>107955689
22k of JS is peanuts if that's your only JS file
>>
>>107955689
also I think you could use vite with rolldown to at least build your website with jQuery and it would tree-shake the code you're not using
>>
>>107949161
Is the world finally getting vanillajs-pilled?
>>
>>107955689
>Read my post again, I gave a specific example of something that cannot be done in vanilla JS.
>and it can do some things that you still cannot fucking do natively even today like cleaning off all event listeners from an element
Not the poster you are replying to, but that was such a silly example, and hardly even an argument for jQuery. jQuery is still just 100% JavaScript, I can implement whatever I need and however the fuck I want with plain JavaScript myself. The absolute state of "web developers"...
>>
>>107955887
>>107955915
>>107955979
>Why would this ever happen in a web app? The entire point of the web app is to act as an API to the DB and handle the views.
I meant if a developer connects directly to the production database. You might say no developer should ever do this, which is of course true, but potentially some stupid developer COULD connect to the database and insert invalid data.

Web frameworks like Rails enforce validation at the application level rather than the database level. So you could insert invalid data by connecting directly to the production database.

I guess then you could just do everything possible to prevent devs connecting to the production database.
>>
>>107956819
>some stupid developer COULD connect
hackers aren't a shady unknown thing, that's precisely why you put those measures in
>>
>>107948898
I only use jQuery because of jQuery UI.
>>
>>107955627
>jQuery is like WordPress - widely used, but crap
What an absolutely retarded take, good god
>>
>>107957319
If I don't like something then it's crap, simple as
>>
>>107955567
you don't need any of that, Javascript from 15 years ago compared to now contains just about everything you want
>>
Anyone building an MCP server here? What do you use? I use:
https://github.com/mark3labs/mcp-go

It seems like FastMCP is the most used rn THOUGH. Problem is that I don't like Python.
>>
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me
const spellProcessor = (spellsArr) => spellsArr.reduce( (acc,el) => { let spellBase = [] el.split("").forEach(elm => spellBase.slice(-1) != elm ? spellBase.push(elm): 0) spellBase = spellBase.join("") let sameSpell = acc.find(el2 => el2.base == spellBase) ?? {} JSON.stringify(sameSpell) === "{}" ? acc.push(sameSpell) : 0 sameSpell.base = spellBase sameSpell.power = (sameSpell.power ?? 0) + el.length sameSpell.count = (sameSpell.count ?? 0) + 1 return acc }, [] ) const unProcessedSpells = [ "fiiire", "fire", "fiiree", "water", "waater", "earth", "air", "aiir" ] spellResultCheck = [ { base: "fire", power: 15, count: 3 }, { base: "water", power: 11, count: 2 }, { base: "air", power: 7, count: 2 }, { base: "earth", power: 5, count: 1 } ] const result = spellProcessor(unProcessedSpells) console.log(result)

vs
gpt
const spellProcessor = (spellsArr) =>
spellsArr.reduce((acc, spell) => {
// 1. Normalize: collapse consecutive duplicates
let base = "";
for (const ch of spell) {
if (base.at(-1) !== ch) {
base += ch;
}
}

// 2. Look up existing spell
let entry = acc.find(e => e.base === base);

// 3. Create if missing
if (!entry) {
entry = { base, power: 0, count: 0 };
acc.push(entry);
}

// 4. Update existing entry
entry.power += spell.length;
entry.count += 1;

return acc;
}, []);
>>
>>107959826
*me
now?
const spellProcessor = (spellsArr) => spellsArr.reduce(
(acc,el) => {
let spellBase = []
el.split("").forEach(elm => spellBase.slice(-1) != elm ? spellBase.push(elm): 0)
spellBase = spellBase.join("")
let sameSpell = acc.find(el2 => el2.base == spellBase) ?? {}
JSON.stringify(sameSpell) === "{}" ? acc.push(sameSpell) : 0
sameSpell.base = spellBase
sameSpell.power = (sameSpell.power ?? 0) + el.length
sameSpell.count = (sameSpell.count ?? 0) + 1
return acc
},
[]
)

const unProcessedSpells = [
"fiiire",
"fire",
"fiiree",
"water",
"waater",
"earth",
"air",
"aiir"
]


spellResultCheck = [
{ base: "fire", power: 15, count: 3 },
{ base: "water", power: 11, count: 2 },
{ base: "air", power: 7, count: 2 },
{ base: "earth", power: 5, count: 1 }
]
const result = spellProcessor(unProcessedSpells)
console.log(result)
>>
>>107956097
dunno about the world, but i've always been
it was really annoying about 15 years ago trying to find information about getting something done in js and finding that all the search results were dildos on SO recommending jQuery for everything
ffs, i don't need a whole-ass library for a simple AJAX request
>>
Is Caddy bloat or is it worth it to replace nginx+certbot with it?
>>
>>107956819
>Web frameworks like Rails enforce validation at the application level rather than the database level. So you could insert invalid data by connecting directly to the production database.

This is wrong because rails just rolls the transaction back if the validations fail. This includes accessing the db via the rails console in prod. No one should be directly connecting to the db because no one should have the credentials to do so.

>>107957076
If you don’t know what you don’t know then yeah there’s a spooky hacker man out there that’s somehow going to get into your ssh only server, directly connecting to your db via credentials and insert bad data. You have to do something colossally retarded to make direct db access possible. The entire point of a web application is to be the middle man between the user and database…
>>
>>107955421
I prefer different types of validations, one for each each system component
>Frontend should not send invalid data to the backend
>Backend should not work with invalid data and business logic
>Database should not store invalid data

Also the backend itself should have layered validations, you don't check business logic in the API adapter
>>
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Everyone dunks on webdevs but honestly my heart goes out to you guys. I’m trying to do a little Golang server with a Svelte frontend as a side project and the amount of shit I’ve had to read just to have a basic clue what I’m doing is mind-bending. Honestly my respects for people who work with stuff like this day in and day out. You guys can manage complexity way better than I can as a firmware guy.
>>
>>107948898
I literally still use JQuery in Steam games for two things: ajax and event delegation.
>>
>>107962299
your hackering da gayms?
>>
>>107962264
>firmware guy
>praising webdevs
never ever thought I'd see this day
>>
>>107962264
Based Go and JS (or TS) appreciator
>>
>>107956044
I'd 100% rather land on a site with vanilla Javascript than jQuery or any modern front end abomination.
>>
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>>107963747
chances are jQuery site would run smoothly (as it targetted ancient hardware specs), while vanilla js wouldn't even exist and you'd get hardware spec raped by a sloppy react site instead
>>
>>107963819
>still cares about hardware from 80s
>still cares about web browsers from 00s
is this your greatest argument?
jquery is a wrapper around vanilla js, so it's bloated, nuff said
>>
>>107964069
I agree with this
>>
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>>107964069
el oh el, specially when ram and gpus goes for fuck you money, king of retards basically
>>
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relax pham, jQuery is a troll, for now...
>>
>>107948898
Webdev is dead, trannies. AI WON
>>
>>107948898
Why is there still programming generals on /g/? Codetrannies lost. AI won
>>
>>107962264
yes, there's a lot of stuff to know and it's quite messy
I feel like the amount of AI slop "webdevs" right now will be a massive problem in the future cause they skipped the foundational knowledge about web technologies and won't be able to fix anything when it breaks
>>
Any elementor dev here? I want to make a navbar with mega menu i did but the mobile version is hard to do
>>
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I'm trying out this. Seems alright so far.
>>
>>107966333
I tried it, and I did not like the set up. If you like it, stick with it, but if you find yourself searching for something else then try Bun ORM (more like a smart query builder+scanner).
>>
>>107967196
I might just go back to sqlc actually. I thought Ent would make things easier but I'm trying to do things that it doesn't support very well.
>>
File: nightly.png (439 KB, 1398x983)
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nighty bump, if you fegs wanna keep this thread alive bump before going to sleep, just in case
>>
File: React_logo_wordmark.png (212 KB, 5000x1679)
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It just works.
>>
>>107968137
Sorry bub but we don’t like making things around here, we prefer to get nothing productive shipped while LARPing as enlightened minimalists
>>
>>107968137
Nodejs dependency hell
>>
>>107967887
>I'm trying to do things that it doesn't support very well
You sound very confused, there's nothing Ent can't do that sqlc can. Not true the other way around, because sqlc can't help you with dynamic queries.
>>
>randomly learning Unity
>don't even know yet what kind of game I want to make
It can't be over because it hasn't even begun
>>
Ruby on Rails is on year 21 of dying this year
>>
>>107961677
>Caddy
megabloat, never use it. use ONLY httpd from OpenBSD
>>
>>107968899
I am thinking of using a trigger function on the database. There's a section about this in the Ent docs but apparently it's a paid feature. So I'm thinking it might just be easier if I use sqlc instead. Possibly I can add the trigger function in a versioned migration or an independent script... or it might be less hassle to go back to sqlc, where this sort of thing is very straightforward
>>
>>107968160
I fear this is some truth to this
>>107968663
I don't think it's a problem. The problem comes when you install random NPM packages from random people who may stop maintaining their packages, or who may introduce malware. Stick to trusted packages (like React) and you should be fine.
>>
>>107971646
there should be a "trusted" attribute to it, but I'm afraid even that would be another vector of attack, "see guise I'm trusted"
fuck npm big time
>>
>page 9
No!
>>
>Thompson tells how he developed the Go language at Google.
Good video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTrAISNdf70
>>
>>107973509
shit, I can only completely trust somebody that looks like this, shame he was kidnapped by google at money point
>>
>>107973509
good vid 2bh, short and straight to the point
>>
>>107957319
I'd go a step further. All jQuery usage is from WordPress sites.
>>
got a raise today, it was merely 330€/month raise, I'm going to look for another job now
>>
>>107955567
>>107955689
Different scopes not being able to fuck with other scopes listeners is a feature, not a bug. If you want that specific behaviour you must set it up. It's piss easy anyways.
>>
How do you guys deploy your sites? PaaS? VPS? Self-hosting?
>>
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*BTFOs your favourite language*
>>
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>>107977343
*ships a product and scales to 100k users before you release an MVP*
>>
>be me
>be vibe coding with LLMs
>suddenly my site is riddled with troonwind
>>
>>107978202
Django feels like a mediocre middle ground. Rails and Laravel ship small apps faster than anything, Go + HTTP is for max performance/scaling at the cost of initial dev speed, Django is way more cumbersome to use than rails or Laravel but is basically tied with them for performance. The only argument for it is that Python is the most used language on the planet, but that isn’t a meaningful advantage for shitting out webapps
>>
>>107977085
railway
>>
>>107978613
>at the cost of initial dev speed
Grossly underestimating the productivity hit you will get with Go as soon as you need to do anything non-trivial
>Rails and Laravel ship small apps faster than anything
Source? Both Rails and Laravel are great frameworks, but so is Django and its edge is being Python. In the end you could spin a wheel and pick one of the three and be good, but I personally like Django because it's Python.
>>
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>>107978202
>>107977343
both garbage, bootcampnigger tier langs

now step away for the White Man's stack
>>
>he thinks caddy isn't bloat
>he doesn't use openbsd httpd
>>
>framework flamewars :O
>>
>>107978202
I want to save money when hosting though
>>107979627
I know that it's possible to use Kotlin for back-end dev but I don't think many people do so
>>
>>107980726
You are wrong. Generally, companies with better tech talent and better software products use Kotlin a lot for backend.

And of course, you have to have some degree of skill and technical expertise to appreciate languages like Kotlin for server side.
On the other hand languages like Python were created for bootcamp retards that can't appreciate a good language.
>>
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<form id="lolwut">
<input name="style">
</form>
<script>
document.getElementById("lolwut").style.border = "1px solid red";
</script>
>>
>>107980771
>You are wrong.
Am I? I didn't say nobody uses Kotlin on the back-end, I said that I don't think many people do. Surely that's true.
>Generally, companies with better tech talent and better software products use Kotlin a lot for backend.
Name three
>languages like Python were created for bootcamp retards that can't appreciate a good language.
I'm not a big fan of Python. For me, it's Go.
>>
>>107979627
I've used Kotlin for android development. It's ok but it has some weird special syntax. Go is much cleaner and more performant. Nothing beats Go when it comes to server side web dev.
>>
>>107981327
>Am I?
Yes.
>Name three
Google, Amazon, Allegro
> For me, it's Go.
so you're a retard, gotcha
>>107981376
>I've used Kotlin for android development.
Then why are you talking lil bro? I'm talking about server side not your mobile app jeetware.
>Go is much cleaner
If you're a brainlet unfamiliar with different programming paradigms, then sure.
>>
>>107961677
Nginx also does automatic tls now
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44889941
>>
>>107979627
Kotlin is goated but gradle is pure ass once you seen the webdev build tools like bun/esbuild build in 200ms

Also compose HTML is still SOTA despite being 5 years old.
>>
>>107961677
Caddy is very easy to work with - it just werks.
>>
>>107981376
Based
>>107981425
>Google, Amazon, Allegro
I haven't heard of Allegro. As for the other two, I'm not even aware of them using Kotlin on the server. They might do sure, but I doubt they use it very much. I thought Google mostly used things like Java, C++, Python, and Go on their servers.
>you're a retard
Why? Go is a simple language to get set up with, it's faster than JVM languages, it has a good ecosystem (great standard library and some decent third-party packages), and it's lean on resources when it's running, so you can save money on hosting. I'm not saying Go is perfect for everything (development time is slower than other languages). I'm just saying I like it.
>>
>>107981507
To be honest Go would be my second pick for language. I picked JVM in general since it has probably best job security overall when looking at backend.

Go seems nice, and I mostly agree with the points you mentioned. Not sure about it's ecosystem, but it most certainly is nowhere near JVM.
Resource consumption can also be vastly improved in JVM with help of GraalVM and frameworks like Quarkus, which also has incredible DX.
And I do not like syntax in Go. Some may argue that writing braindead simple code is good, but it's ugly and leads to poor design choices, duplicated code etc.
But as I said, probably would be my lang of choice if JVM wasn't so good of a career choice.
>>
>>107955421
c) so you don't clog up inserts or w/e in the database with shit data that would never save. Just discard it as soon as you can.

That and some data needs to moar validation beyond types. Addresses for example.
>>
>>107954570
Start a digital agency / contracting firm. You'll get to work on a shitload of new projects for people who don't want to hire software engineers. Plus it'll mostly be CRUD apps so you should just be able to churn them out.
>>
>Java 2 is best most brainful language saar
Erlang is the White Man’s backend language. Elixir and Gleam are a step down. Everything else feels like complete trash once you’ve used BEAM for backend dev.
>>
>>107983239
It's only White if you use it for massively concurrent fault tolerant systems.
If you just use it for basic backend apps you're nothing else then a FP wannabe big boy jeet.
>>
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>>107983484
Nah, the best part is it handles both ends of the spectrum extremely well. Any meaningful webapp in this day and age is going to require a distributed backend, but even CRUDmonkey sites are a natural fit.
>>
>>107983524
Show me a snippet of Erlang code that you wrote that was a part of meaningful project.

It has nowhere near the ecosystem or DX that Kotlin and frameworks like Quarkus or Spring have for business heavy, cloud native applications.
>>
>brother has schizophrenia
>tells me he got a free server from his old job and he'd help me set it up
>take him up on his offer, send him the files he needs for NGINX
>conversation shifts to site traffic
>"you should purchase a VPS to do that!"
Yeah.
Maybe I should.
>>
>>107979627
wtf are the left and right icons? this looks like meme zoomer shit
>>
>>107948898
I'm done with this SPA madness.
This year my stack will be htmx+flask.
That's it.
Databases in SQLite, SQLModel for ORM, alpine if I ever need some JS in front (I won't), bootstrap for styling and pytest for TDD.

It's all CRUD anyway, the front should be the easy part.
>>
>>107989192
Flask in 2026 shouldn't even be considered, go with Django or FastAPI
>htmx
NGMI
design your website better, you don't need JS interactivity bloat
>>
>>107948898
Wtf is this shit?
>>
What if I only know how to Derpal?
>>
>want to use bun for API's because speed
>3 billion frameworks each propped up entirely by lone maintainers with wacko socials
drat
>>
File: Glegle deal with it.gif (36 KB, 520x512)
36 KB
36 KB GIF
>>107990787
deal with it



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