oh no this sounds awful
>compiles dwm

>>107974740
GNU/SystemD/Linux

>>107974740
>KDE adds hard dependency on SystemD and drops FreeBSD
No one cares.

>>107974740
nigger KDE also supports SDDM if youre using a system without systemd, whether thats Linux or BSD

>>107974792
valve might

That's only the new login manager afaik, SDDM should still work

>>107974740
Reminder I said this would happen 2 years ago and everyone called me a schizo.

>>107974766
You should care because now if you're running anything tied to GTK or Qt you'll be stuck either using a systemd shim or old versions. I still use GTK2 but most distros do not ship binaries built on GTK2 anymore. Most people moved over to modern Qt versions instead in an attempt to avoid what was happening with the hard dependencies on systemd. Now everyone will be forced into it anyway.

The BSDs will now be forced to import the cancer if they want GUI applications. Lots of systemd advocates swarmed into FreeBSD's community over the last year or so. I wonder what OpenBSD will do.

>>107974970
It starts with the log-in manager then it will slowly creep into the entire toolkit just like its done with GTK.

>>107974970
>>107974995
Also the real reason they've done this is because the BSDs were still maintaining consolekit2. Which proved the
>no one wants to maintain consolekit2
lie they've been telling for the last 5 years wrong.

Really curious how all major toolkits and the big linux distros keep pushing IBM defaults at the same time isn't it? Almost like the big tech companies have seized control of all major projects and are paying people to do this.

>>107974740
KDE has been part of freedesktop from the start though.

>>107974979
time to go Nuklear I guess
>>107974995
elogind? does someone here use seatd as an alternative with a normal distro?

>>107974979
Why do UI frameworks need to link to the init system

>>107974771
the meme becomes truer by the day
also, is "truer" a real word? it sounds so jeet

>>107974740
sorry, but what is the issue with systemD again? I have always seen people bashing it but never accompanied by some reasonable explanation

>>107974740
>first gnome
>now kde
lintroons are so mad kek

>>107975075
then you are a newfag to /g/ and need to lurk moat
or leave
either is fine.

>>107974740
Plasma Login Manager is used by literally nobody right now. Everyone uses SDDM.

>>107974740
cosmic doesn't require systemd

>>107975036
>Why do UI frameworks need to link to the init system
Control. GTK and Qt together have a monopoly on GUI applications on UNIX and they have for a long time. Before the late 90s you had multiple other options. But now none of them have been maintained in forever because everyone either moved to Qt if they didn't mind being tied to commercial interests and wanted to support Windows/Apple devices under one application. FOSS applications went with GTK which they built for that purpose and they eventually ported it over so the same applications could run on Windows/Apple-shit.

GTK was the main threat to commercial interests so that got taken over and ruined first. Now that GTK has been fully shit up and controlled they start pushing changes into Qt to make hard dependencies on systemd. Lots of applications support both Qt and GTK for years then they recently started dropping GTK support due to the Gnome people being impossible to work with. Now you'll see the same thing with Qt and KDE.

>>107975036
They don't. It's SystemD spreading like a cancer.

>>107975142
cosmic is a piece of shit that can't be used on the BSDs in the first place because no one will even allow something that depends on Rust into the base system. We'd rather have only a console on the 10 hardware platforms than that piece of shit on 1 platform.

>>107974955
SteamOS is based on Arch, it uses systemd.

>>107975160
Also note that the switch to wayland is what allowed for this. With Xorg the toolkits didn't have to care what was running on the rest of the system. Since as long as X11 was working they would run everywhere even on systems without a log-in manager.

With the switch to wayland now they have to fall in line with whatever wayland needs because it's "just a protocol". That "protocol" relies on other IBM shitware like logind which replies on systemd.

>>107975028
>elogind? does someone here use seatd as an alternative with a normal distro?
If you're using elogind they don't care since you're using the same thing as logind only a few versions behind maintained by someone else. If you're using seatd they don't care because you're using something that is emulating their standard.

How often have you needed a seat manager on your own home computer or laptop? The answer for 99% of people is never. But you run it anyway because IBM says you need to run it for security. When in reality it's just a needless process running as root all of the time doing nothing of value. The only purpose it can serve is locking you out of your own system and being a possible backdoor.

>>107975038
"Truer words have never been spoken" is a pretty old phrase at this point, so yes.

>>107975241
>How often have you needed a seat manager on your own home computer or laptop?
Most of us don't even know what those are for. I have no idea what 99% of the shit installed in computer is used for and I suspect I wouldn't even notice if it wasn't there.

>>107975208
>That "protocol" relies on other IBM shitware like logind
do they really

>>107974740
If your freebsd has a GUI your use case is incorrect

File: 1752519406745646.png (874 KB, 1280x720)

874 KB PNG

SystemD is penises! SystemD is penises!

>>107975594
freebsd is the new linux

>>107974740
>KDE
>SystemD
>*BSD
>GuhNome
nothing of value here, so I don't care. ;3

>>107974740
There is no hard dependency. This is just the login manager and it works fine with elogind and also you don't even need a login manager to use KDE.

File: doom paul only darkness.png (109 KB, 449x548)

109 KB PNG

>>107974771
>systemd-kerneld

>>107974740
> Cuck OS with a cuck license gets cucked

What's the problem here? Is it not their fetish?

>>107974740
None of you faggots were using it anyway because of wayland so why does it matter?

>>107974740
Do you need KDE to run Qt applications? My only FreeBSD box has no GUI but my NetBSD box runs Window Maker the same as my Devuan box. DE's are bloated cancer to being with.

>>107977014
>Do you need KDE to run Qt applications?
What kind of question is that? Of course not. It's a multiplatform framework.

File: nigger.png (393 KB, 1212x940)

393 KB PNG

>>107974740
cuck license

Here's what I care about: Can I run XFCE without systemDicked? If I can, I'm happy. KDE always felt off and bloated to me.

>>107974979
>Reminder I said this would happen 2 years ago and everyone called me a schizo.
Where?
>You should care because now if you're running anything tied to GTK or Qt you'll be stuck either using a systemd shim or old versions.
The dependency is on Plasma Login Manager, not Qt. The only influence KDE exerts over the Qt group is the preservation of the Qt open-source license. These two parties don't exactly have the best relationship.
Not only you're a schizophrenic, you're also a schizophrenic retard.

>>107974740
systemd is the superior init service and I'm tired of pretending it's not.

>>107977217
>shills come out to call him schizo
Must be true then

>>107975160
>monopoly
lol its free.
anyone can make something different and give it away for free as well.

suckless.org should send more death threats to poettering

>>107977238
Although GTK is maintained and developed by the GNOME developers to meet the needs of the GNOME desktop environment, Qt is neither maintained nor developed by KDE. Please explain how Plasma's increasing dependence on systemd affects the Qt toolkit and the Qt Group.
Hint: it doesn't.
>shills
I don't use Linux. I use NetBSD and OpenBSD.

>it's just the log-in manager
<you are here>
>it's just the log-in manager, konsole and dolphin
>if you don't like it fork it or use the older version
>why would you want to use another init anyway?
>what are you some kind of tinker tranny?
>we can't package the fork it's made by literal Nazis

>>107974740
i use fedora kde so idc but that seems retarded is there an explenation on what part needs systemd so much?

File: sadim.png (96 KB, 377x486)

96 KB PNG

>>107977231
For Windows users, yes.

File: ebuss.png (863 KB, 900x900)

863 KB PNG

>>107974740

>>107975583
Wayland provides everything except a windowing system and a graphics stack. Which is to say, it's like one of those abandoned "frameworks" that github is full of where it's half of something workable but not really anything resembling complete.
But X requires skilled C programmers and at least a tacit respect for not breaking things arbitrarily because it evolved over time, and so anything not supported by wayshit was dropped until the requirements became whatever was half-assed so far.
Wayland is just a window manager that got too big for its britches and only belongs in gnome shittery. But people are running to it anyway, the fools.
Still on X by the way, and xlibre has patches I use for Tearfree.

>>107974979
> what OpenBSD will do
Stubbornly refuse to cuck, drop support for KDE, call you a tranny, and tell you to use twm/mwm/progman.exe

(https://github.com/jcs/progman)

>>107974771
uutils/c-ward/systemD/wayland/linux

dont have this problem on xfce

File: 1765420924494500.jpg (478 KB, 1536x2048)

478 KB JPG

>>107974740
>>107974771
>>107975075
>>107975165
>>107975605
>>107975613
>>107978064
it's systemd

>>107978062
Thanks anon. I had NP clue such an awesome thing existed. Windows 3.1 takes its design language from the same research that produced CDE.
An elegent window manager for a more civilized age.

>>107978064
>c-ward
I'll leave when I'm good and ready.

File: 1759386244845275.png (121 KB, 659x766)

121 KB PNG

>>107978048
>xlibre
I wish it were trustworthy, but the lead dev barely knows C, and I can't trust him to vet the rest of the code coming into the project

>>107974979
Gtk2 isn't going anywhere. Tons of ports in FreeBSD rely on it. Year of the MATE desktop?

>>107975075
Systemd is the software equivalent of taking the vax. A litmus test of who's cucked and who isn't

>>107974955
every vendor and non-meme distro maintainer ever explicitly prefers systemd because it provides actual standardization instead of meme handwritten scripts.
only autistic NEETs care about such things

>>107980061
>only autistic NEETs care about it
Everyone that actually cared about security and stability cares about it. Only a retard would run millions of lines of shit C code as PID1
>meme handwritten scripts
As opposed to handwritten terrible C code running as root? I'll take the "meme scripts" every time. Those "meme scripts" worked just fine.

>>107980071
>Everyone that actually cared about security and stability cares about it. Only a retard would run millions of lines of shit C code as PID1
I guess corporations with massive datacenters and NSA itself was wrong to choose systemd based distros then. Perhaps they should've asked you instead.

on that note, someone should rewrite systemd in rust

>>107980090
>I guess corporations with massive datacenters and NSA itself was wrong to choose systemd based distros then.
They were.

>>107980090
>Corporations and the US government are trustworthy
If I wanted to defend SystemD, I wouldn't use these arguments

>>107974740
Finally
It's still blows my mind that there are projects that treat things like systemd and dbus optional on a modern Linux. And then people complain there are no uniform desktop experience on Linux.

File: 1753947209284577.png (17 KB, 358x248)

17 KB PNG

>>107980141
good enough for them, good enough for me.
service syntax is piss easy and one has no one but themselves to blame in the age of AI when gemini can shit out and update your user services/timers based on your requirements

>>107980090
>>107980141
The reason corps. adopted systemd is because they could downsize. If you run that piece of shit you no longer have to pay a staff of competent sysadmins to maintain your servers. Instead you can hire an army of pajeets to copy/paste unit files and systemctl commands from stackoverlow. The NSA isn't running systemd on anything of value anyway. Just like CPUs they do not run mainstream software on their systems. Since they know it can be cracked into easily considering they're the ones that wrote it and pushed for its adoption (IBM was always a glownigger front company).

systemd shills and the idiots that bought the propaganda always parrot the same lies. Now that 10 years have passed they're pretending no one was against it initially. In reality, everyone was against it and they had to murder people in key positions to get it adopted in the first place. Modern package jannys like it because it means they don't have to do any work at all. Just pull from Fedora's repo and sign off on the package. No testing involved at all since you know it's going to run like shit and be riddled with bugs anyway. No blame can be directed at you because you can always shift it "upstream".

They like to pretend it was a choice between their garbage and "hacky shell scripts". In reality there had been multiple init systems that came out before that implemented loading daemons through different methods. Pretty much every way of doing it had been done before. People stuck with the "hacky shell scripts" because they worked fine and it was easy enough to extend with whatever you wanted. Unit files are "hacky scripts" too. They just have a worse syntax and give you less choice. They're far worse than shell scripts because when they fail you have no idea wtf happened and can't audit them. You can't even read the log files because they're binary. Assuming you got logs at all because systemd's logging system is by far the worse logging system ever devised.

>Login manager
It's fucking nothing.
And the entire thread took the bait.

>>107974740
>1 month ago
>"Plasma Login provides a display manager for KDE Plasma, forked from SDDM"
false alert

>>107980152
>people complain there are no uniform desktop experience on Linux.
No one wants a "uniformed desktop experience" and no one ever asked for it. People want options and customization. They want the ability to build whatever the fuck they want.

It's pathetic that a low-end computer from 1998 running Linux kernel could provide a more customized system that was far more stable than what a high-end system running Linux can do today.

A "uniformed desktop experience" ends up being what you get with a smart phone. A horrible GUI where you aren't allowed to do anything because the vendor took away your ability to compile and install software because of "security issues". Where the hardware itself has multiple backdoors and PID1 is a backdoor that doesn't listen when you issue a shutdown/reboot command.

If people wanted a "uniformed desktop experience" like that they wouldn't have installed a Linux distro in the first place. They would have kept using whatever the fuck came pre-installed on the system (Windows or Appleshit). If you faggots love this type of horrible software anti-design so much then go run something like that.

>>107977877
He's also known for making Linux clones of Apple software, like launchd -> systemd or zeroconf/bonjour -> avahi.

Plasma Login Screen is practically bare-bones at this point. They haven't implements any planned features and currently plasma settings won't apply for it (but that might be only in plasma 6.5)

>>107980270
Avahi is now being obsolete in favor of systemd-resolved mdns resolver

>>107980255
Embrace, extend, extinguish won after all. Except not in the way people envisioned back then.

>>107980255
tl;dr you're retarded, nobody fucking need hundred different init systems that do the same thing, especially when DE devs supposed to support all of them.
Why don't you complain that we only have a single non-interchangeable Linux kernel or why Linux kernel don't have 2-3 duplicates for each subsystem?

>>107977136
for now, yes, but the walls are closing in

>systemd does everything for you, makes everything easier, is pretty standardized, better user experience, literally everything better, established and proven for a long time now
>autists and schizos still complain about it, as if replacing horse carts with cars was a bad idea and getting to your destination faster is a bad thing
I'm both both not surprised and still intrigued by fucking autists and schizos and just how many there are on /g/. I never really learned about systemd and yet after more than a year on this board, I learned so much about it, just because autists keep bringing it up every opportunity they get, because they simply have nothing better to do. Both pathetic and commendable, really

at least with windows i abandoned all delusions of control.

>>107977014
>Do you need KDE to run Qt applications?
the AMD driver panel on windows is written in Qt, so what'd you think?

>>107980071
>Only a retard would run millions of lines of shit C code as PID1
>*runs millions of lines of immutable shit C code as PID0*
dipshit.

>>107979707
holy shit lmao
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/pull/56

>>107980322
>Why don't you complain that we only have a single non-interchangeable Linux kernel
We do.

>>107980270
Yes, that fag clearly dislikes Unix and wants to turn every aspect of Linux into shit. Pulseaudio is a piece of garbage and for more than a decade the fix for all my audio issues was to just remove it. Avahi is useless, it serves mainly as just more attack surface waiting to be exploited.

>>107974740
FreeBSD is shit. news at 11. not sure why anyone is surprised. UNIX garbage is finally dying.

how come all people do on this god forsaken board is sperg about desktop environments, yet they're still somehow unfamiliar regarding the way kde, as in the umbrella organization, is structured?
just keep using sddm or greetd

File: 1769536959840.webm (84 KB, 307x303)

84 KB WEBM

>>107984992
>instance #1393927 of an anon discovering that other anons are dumb

>>107980322
>nobody fucking need hundred different init systems that do the same thing, especially when DE devs supposed to support all of them.
That's funny. Since before systemd no one developing a DE had to give two fucks about what init was running on the system.

Yet another lie from systemd shills.

>>107978048
>But X requires skilled C programmers
So it requires something that does not exist. Read the Unix-Haters Handbook. There's a chapter on the X Window System.

>>107986967
nta but i was reading that fucking chapter like an hour ago kek
granted it was bc of this thread, but still
https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf

bye bye cuck license

>>107986071
Exactly. >>107980322 unironically says that the DEs have to support the init system without even realizing how retarded this is. This is how deep the rot runs in these people's brains.

>>107987286
i should be sleeping and i'm reading this shit now
it's a funny book, it made me love unix even more

File: Brawndo.jpg (27 KB, 230x350)

27 KB JPG

>>107977244
What a fucking reductive view of things. You're either the most retarded goy cattle on earth, or a paid agitator. Anyways, drink up goy.

File: 1758671035984905.jpg (29 KB, 567x567)

29 KB JPG

>>107977390
Today I found out that tmux has a hard dependency on systemd...

>>107987666
>it's true
https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/tmux/

Holy shit Linux is fucking cancer.

File: 1752495865883792.png (384 KB, 640x640)

384 KB PNG

>>107975747
>systemd-libcd
>systemd-ccd
>systemd-coreutilsd

>>107987606
Unix is brain damaged slop.

>>107987666
But WHY?

notonvoidlinuxbtwsuckmyballs

>>107974740
is the opposition to systemd simply an ideological one or is there something more to it? it seems to work just fine for me but I never used anything other than systemd

>>107974740
is it an actual hard dependency, or are you saying that it depends on libsystemd and i really can still use it? i mean, not that i'd want to since it's wayland only

>>107987843
Why don't you lurk more or read the 15 years worth of write ups on why it's shit instead of asking to be spoon fed?

>>107987843
it is ideological, because systemd is funded by redhat. it is also practical, because most distros that use systemd don't make full use of it, and so you get a mish mash of old unix constructs mixed with systemd, and have to learn both. systemd has a lot of features that you will never ever use unless you're running an elastic cloud. it also has potentially a huge attack surface since it does so much shit

File: .png (55 KB, 1418x385)

55 KB PNG

>>107987666
>>107987688

>>107987916
>lot of features
>look inside
>bunch of Linux kernel features any software can use
>tons of shit that used to be built outside of the systemd repo that was taken over by freedesktop
>straight lies (socket activation)
>giving yourself root with a malformed username

>>107987807
it's actually great, but you would never understand
i'm really enjoying the book, it allows me to peak into minds like yours and makes me so grateful i don't live in that hell

>>107987666
let me introduce you to
https://www.brain-dump.org/projects/abduco/
and
https://www.brain-dump.org/projects/dvtm/

>>107987940
>>straight lies (socket activation)
elaborate

File: Chud gun.jpg (12 KB, 224x224)

12 KB JPG

>>107974740
>first the gayland stuff
>now this
Is it time for me to finally bite the bullet and embrace the dwm meme?

File: it's over aryan.jpg (117 KB, 1080x947)

117 KB JPG

>>107974979
I'm gonna keep rawdogging Xlib and hoping that the rat gets angry enough to drop a new GUI library that isn't pure fucking AIDS.
Also qt was always shit, it's not the big loss you're making it out to be.

>>107987898
so ideological then? got it

>>107988215
If you haven't been using a window manager for the last fifteen years, I'm sorry to say that you're not gonna make it.

>>107988256
if you have more than one window on you screen at any time you are being unproductive and should not give advice to anyone

>>107988256
I have been using w window manager for 15 years, it's call kwin, but that's the problem.

>>107987812
>>107987938
On non-systemd distros, package maintainers have to manually recompile packages without dependency on systemd, or patch it to remove systemd dependency if there's no such compile flags.
Please go thank your package maintainers for giving you the ability to run stuff without the cancer that is systemd.

Based. Linux is finally maturing into a real OS.

>>107988232
Why do you care. You're too stupid to understand why it's shit and won't put in the minimal effort so I'm just going to assume you're the same daily shills that come here and pretend to be ignorant and retarded.

>>107988180
"Socket activation" in systemd consists of starting everything then holding messages while constantly polling those processes to see if they've finally woken up. AKA the same shit the scripts they claim are "hacky" did for 30 years before it came along. It isn't real. It's a lie. It's worse than before because now you have no idea if the process is really there or if systemd is just saying it is online. You can't check the logs either because it does the same thing with its awful binary logging system which you can't turn off.

File: 1608564395082.jpg (101 KB, 566x564)

101 KB JPG

Systemd won
Wayland won
Pipewire won
Flatpaks won
Miniamlism troons lost

>>107987940
>>bunch of Linux kernel features any software can use
This is completely beyond most corporate shitware developers. They will defend redundant abstractions to the ends of the earth. I swear it's some kind of self-flagellation ritual.

>>107974771
i feel like at this point systemd is comfortably much larger than GNU

>>107979707
>>107984073
and those retards over on artix distribute installation iso with xlibre lol

>>107988439
>They will defend redundant abstractions to the ends of the earth.
this, it's everywhere

>>107987843
Since you're new to linux, you have no idea how shitty systemd was in the past, it wasn't always "just works", even now things break but that's not even the worst part of systemd, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui_LhqMVPXU

>>107988419
Where is the lie?

Show me proof your system has ever been haxxed because you use systemd btw

>>107988651
Show me proof that your house has ever been broken into because you use a home depot door btw

>>107988419
how many posts are you going to make without making an argument? you can just make on up to avoid this complete embarrassment lol

>>107988804
Bot post

>>107988820
retard post

File: brainlets.png (123 KB, 733x380)

123 KB PNG

>A fork of SDDM with the purpose of integrating with systemd won't work on non-systemd systems, and now I am mad

>>107987688
Arch Linux cannot be used without systemd. Obviously it's going to have deps on it.

File: squeek.png (106 KB, 334x334)

106 KB PNG

Do people actually use kde? I thought everyone knew it was a meme DE that only jeets install lol

>>107988156
thanks, anon

File: Screenshot_2026-01-27_17-29-49.png (48 KB, 882x293)

48 KB PNG

>>107987666
Huh?

>>107989047
>he posted smugly while having systemd-libs on his system

>>107974740
No, you fucking idiot, the PLASMA LOGIN MANAGER has added a hard dependency on systemd. If you want to keep using SDDM, or any other login manager that doesn't depend on systemd, you can....get this: NOT FUCKING USE THE PLASMA LOGIN MANAGER.

>>107989791
If only we had an example of this happening before with another project to get an idea about where this is going.

>>107989821
Name one reason why BSD maintainers won't be able to ship Plasma with either SDDM or some other login manager, go:

>>107989834
Name one reason why they should have to waste their time patching around your cancer in the first place.
>If only we had an example of this happening
Oh right, Gnome. What's the status of Gnome on the BSDs again?

>>107989869
GNOME is not designed to be modular or customisable, whereas Plasma decidedly does not have a hard dependency on plasma-login-manager. BSD maintainers can choose whatever login manager they want.

>>107975082
>first gnome
Buddy, Gnome IS the cancer. There is a solid graph with the enshitification of Linux and IBm, Red Hat and Gnome.

>>107975746
The real fear is that Gnome started exactly like with with GDM and now they are pushing homed and Varlink.

>>107989985
>GNOME is not designed to be modular or customisable
v 2.x was
>BSD maintainers can choose whatever login manager they want.
You're acting retarded or are actually retarded. Hard to tell these days.

>>107990169
>v 2.x was
GNOME has fundamentally changed (even philosophically) in ways that KDE hasn't and won't.

>>107990178
So you're actually retarded. Got it.

>>107988151
>it's actually great, but you would never understand
Why do you think Unix is great? It's more complex and weaker than other operating systems because there's no vision or design. Everything was bolted on and made by different people and doesn't follow any structure. It's like a Frankenstein OS.

>>107990185
I'm retarded because you think KDE has the same trajectory as GNOME?

>>107974740
Listen shut the fuck up ok? You had an entire fucking decade to fix xorg and x11 and you did jack shit so now you need to shut the fuck up and reap what you sow motherfucker. An entire fucking decade wasted complaining about systemd instead of doing something. kys

>>107974792
>>107974740
Literally result of the corporate takeover by valve lmao.
>Drop support for anything we don't pay you for

>>107990234
>you had an entire fucking decade to submit pull requests that would will never accept

>>107990228
>large corporate interests
>already dropping support for X11 in new versions
>already placing hard dependencies on systemd libs
>BSD maintainers already complaining about having to patch around things
Hmmm where have I seen that before?

File: 1769325415365617.jpg (21 KB, 601x510)

21 KB JPG

>>107974766
>t.

>>107980181
only real post here

>>107974766
Based and thanks for reminding me, dwm 6.7 was updated on the 10th.

Be me
>no systemd
>no elogind
>no polkitd

File: tmux makefile.png (16 KB, 481x251)

16 KB PNG

>>107987666
>>107987688
>#ifdef HAVE_SYSTEMD
>#if HAVE_SYSTEMD
It's literally a preprocessor directive, there is no hard dependency.

>>107988336
>On non-systemd distros, package maintainers have to manually recompile packages without dependency on systemd
Anon pretty much every distro builds the packages they provide from source anyway because most (all) distros ship binaries that are dynamically linked.

>>107990335
>BSD maintainers already complaining about having to patch around things
What are they complaining about? They're ALREADY using SDDM. They can just keep using it. They literally don't have to change anything

>>107990234
there is nothing to fix actually, it just works

>>107988232
Of course it's ideological moron. Switching to Linux is also ideological unless you literally just installed it a few months ago. The problem with Systemd is what people have always said, so I don't know why people have stared acting coy like "lol they never explain it" when it's been done ad nauseum.

The problem is it is monolithic and covers a ton of functionality that should be covered by specific programs. This makes it very easy to become dependant on, especially since the upstream distros switched to it. As time goes on, more and more things require systemd outright, which makes it harder to have the programs packaged on a non-systemd distro. You also can't just uninstall systemd and try something else, you need a distro that specifically is non-systemd. Now it's gotten to the point where Artix just cannot offer new versions of Gnome to it's users, and Gnome doing something means many will follow. So systemd kills its competition by design, which goes against the whole idea of desktop freedom.

The other issue is, as we've seen with many other things, once something becomes the only viable option, they start making unpopular changes. Did you know Ubuntu had Amazon ads at one point? Ironically, the only reason that failed is because they tried it too soon, didn't have enough market control, and it was too easy to fork. 5 years from now when half of Linux hard requires SystemD, they could make any changes or put any spyware they want and you'll be forced to cope, assuming people notice in it's absolutely massive code base.

Basically, you are niggercattle and should stick to Apple. Funnily enough systemd was designed to replicate how Mac worked from what I recall.

>>107974946
Wow cool. You can go out of your way to use a different login manager. Let's just ignore how we literally just went through this with GNOME and now it's completely systemd only. It must be blissful having absolutely no foresight or pattern recognition.

>>107989834
>surely it's a one time thing. They would never do it for other programs they maintain. Just one login manager guys trust me.

>>107990258
>Corporate takeover
Good, valve should decide the direction of things instead of some trannies who don't care because they'll be dead in a year or two.

>>107991333
God damn, you people are just blatant and will lie through your teeth about anything. Like the mentally ill retards that showed up in the last 10 years weren't a direct result of corporations in the first place. With their DEI policies that give preferable treatment to these mentally ill eunuchs and their kin (faggots in general) who will give bonuses to any of their current employees that will become faggots themselves, promote it and become good "allies". As if each and everyone of these faggots that proclaim they
>fucking love FOSS!!!!!!!
aren't currently employed or seeking employment with these large corporations. Just like the
>punch a nazi fuck fascists!!!
idiots aren't employed by them to. Ironically, most of them work for companies that are on record for having helped the real Nazis in WW2 (IBM provided the machines to tag, track and ID so-called undesirables. inb4 "fucking based I hate da j000s").

>>107991264
>they could make any changes or put any spyware they want
They already have. There are several examples but the one that comes to mind right away is the fact that systemd systems ping google DNS servers at boot and during runtime all of the time. You can not turn it off it's hard coded into the source code. Like a lot of things in systemd where it will ignore any changes you've made to config files and do whatever the fuck it wants anyway. It's such a massive piece of shit in this respect.

Just go to the github repo right now and witness the 700+ open bugs with more coming in everyday. Which don't include the thousands that have been marked WONTFIX or one of the other 100 different tags like "troll will ignore".

I think what makes me the most angry is when defenders of it say you should fork it like anyone in their right mind would do it in the first place or that we somehow couldn't build anything better and it solved actual problems. In reality, we had much better init and service managers for decades.

>>107991264
>Funnily enough systemd was designed to replicate how Mac worked from what I recall.
Like most of Pottering's bullshit yes it just badly copied the OS X way of doing init and service management.

There is no possible way anyone that isn't
1) Good at software design and/or
2) not getting paid to promote it and/or too stupid to have an opinion (see 1)

Can defend this shit. Forget the "UNIX way" and all of that for a moment. Just look at systemd in a vacuum.

A person taking Intro to C on day one would understand that shoving millions of lines of code into PID1 is a horrible idea. PID1 must run as root to do its job. PID1 has one job: spawning and reaping all other PIDs running on the system. It's the most important PID on any system. Therefor, stability and being damn sure it can't go off the rails is the most important thing to ensure the system is both stable and doing its job securely. You can not advocate for security and stability while building and/or running something like systemd. It's impossible for it to do both of those things. You WILL have problems in both areas simply because of the complexity and because so many things can and will go wrong.

Even if they wanted it to do all the things it does it was easy and straightforward to make the PID1 part of it small with few lines of code and shove everything else into other PIDs where you could drop privileges, not run as root and accomplish the very same functionality. The ONLY reason they needed to keep it all in PID1 is vendor lock-in.

This is why systemd is designed the way it is: vendor lock-in. With systemd IBM wins on both ends. The glow nigger division gets their free backdoor and the other divisions get their endless support contracts and ability to hire a literal monkey to deal with support tickets. No alternatives can gain adoption since the entire application ecosystem around the kernel depends on your PID1 (or emulation of your PID1).

>>107991624
>No alternatives can gain adoption since the entire application ecosystem around the kernel depends on your PID1 (or emulation of your PID1).
As multiple people have stated over the years they do not give a fuck if you fork off parts of systemd and/or emulate them. As long as the standard is being used they retain their vendor lock-in. They've got people locked in through multiple methods now too.

The way all DEs have been changed in the last 10 years forces you to rely on their seat manager. Which is also handling things like access to input and video devices now for some reason. logind, elogind, seatd it doesn't matter. It's all the same shit. You're using their retarded way of taking away access to your own hardware devices through their shitty code running as root. They say you need it for security. The old way wasn't secure. What was the old way? Granting a user account access to those devices. It was possible to use them without running anything as root. But this is not secure to them. Since that would allow a user to use those devices without anything they control between you and them.

They don't care if you use something else like mdev. Since you're still using their standard based upon udev. Again: controlling access to your own hardware through a standard they control.

They don't care if you use something that emulates dbus. As long as it's running on your system and they control the standard around IPC. We already had multiple ways of doing IPC and it would have been easy enough for one to become an agreed upon standard way of doing it. But then they wouldn't have their little backdoor they could exploit on every system or applications that depend upon their PID1 enforcing vendor lock-in. Anyone can tell dbus was a horrible idea. It uses javascript and everything for....reasons.

You could have just used a pipe. Like everyone did from the 1960s up until the 2010s. But simple solutions like that don't allow you to have vendor lock-in.

>>107991658
Last but not least all of this garbage ensures no real development that would make a GUI/desktop on the linux kernel better for everyone will ever make it into the kernel.

Example: We could have slowly migrated away from something like X11 and wrote something new running in kernel space (or partially in kernel space) like every other OS with a GUI has done. Since it's the right way to do it. But instead they pushed wayland running in userspace. Then they hyped it up and started paying people to re-write old software on top of it. Now we get millions of wasted hours in man power on this instead of expending man power on actually fixing the problem.

We could have written a standard for IPC that didn't rely on pipes or gave you more control that pipes and added it to the kernel. Instead, we get d-bus running in userspace and their horrible attempt to push that into the kernel.

We could have added something to the kernel to help manage services. Instead we get bloated PID1 running as root in userspace with thousands of known bugs and 100s of thousands of bugs waiting to be discovered.

and on and on it goes. Now we get Rust in the kernel. Another horrible idea. That will only lead to pain and thousands of bugs. But it will enforce more vendor lock-in and ensure things like new GPUs will never function on older systems. Thus driving the planned obsolesces.

In time older hardware from about 2010 and back will be straight banned from using the internet all together. For "security". In reality, it'll just be because they can't run drivers for the vendor lock-in chip or whatever bullshit will be required by your ISP to handshake and get through their Government mandated portal.

Anyone with a brain can see what's happening. They are not subtle about it.

>>107991264
>still no argument
figures

>>107991700
You aren't fooling anyone you massive faggot shill. A real person interested in the question wouldn't ignore all discussion that is negative towards the thing he claims
>I never have and problems with
A real person would have been curious enough to lurk moar, do a simple google search which would have provided you with plenty of blog posts from respected software developers going back to 2013 and wouldn't be here wasting his time replying to people that attempted to spoon feed you even though no one should have bothered. He wouldn't be here DEFENDING something he claims to not know the first thing about.

You people are not clever and YOU have no arguments. Which is why you people have been forced to take over mod positions at every major tech news and discussion website and ban everyone that isn't pushing the propaganda. You are forced to control the narrative through censorship because you can't argue against cold hard facts. Like the one people have made over and over again: running millions of lines of code as root in PID1 is a mistake a first year CS student knows not to make.

>>107991727
You seem to be having an episode, I'm concerned for everybody's safety in your near vicinity. Please try to control yourself or take your medication if you have them

>>107991697
GrapheneOS dev said Rust is good.

>>107991264
When has systemd produced problems for Linux users?

>>107974740
For a Kool Desktop Environment, this is not very cool.

>>107975746
>elogind
still systemd

>>107990197
that's the beauty of it, academically speaking it may be bad, on paper, but in practice it took the correct compromises to be maintainable by random people of all kinds and needs, and still do the job
you claim it has no vision or design, but that's because you refuse to see it, not because it isn't there, real world experience refutes you
and it's the opposite of complex, your mind just can't even imagine not doing things "correctly", that's how you get java, rust etc
all in all, you don't really like computers, you just like larping as a hall monitor, and literally no one cares, and that's a good thing