If the main Xlibre dev barely even knows C, Xorg is dying and even the guys that made it want it dead, and Wayland is not even ready yet, and has a bad design where everyone needs to make their own compositor, then what the fuck are we supposed to use then? Is there a display server that just works and has a future? Yes, we could use Xorg, but it has no improvements and it is becoming obsolete because the niggers at freedesktop refuse to add new stuff, but it will sooner or later be dead. So what now, /g/?
>>1081288122+2 is 4 minus 1 that's 3 quick math
>>108128812>tr00ns are good at programming, chud!>tr00ns irl:
>>108128812>Wayland is not even ready yetWhy do losers keep saying this? Wayland does everything functioning people need it to do. And it doesn't have a literal mouselogger in its sample apps.
>>108128900Xfce doesnt support it yet, Dwm doesnt work at all, and so does almost every window manager except like 5 of them that work on Wayland.
I use dwm.exe never had any issues
>>108128931Xfce has had official wayland support since 2024
>>108128812Find new material, petridish
>>108128900>Why do losers keep saying this?Because they tried in on Xfeces, a meme DE that hasn't had a major update in years.>>108128931Case in point.
>>108128900Doesn't memorize my window placement because apparently in Wayland the application isn't allowed to know its own coordinates on desktop. And this is by design.
>>108129008>the people fucking up the Linux desktop are 25 year olds with "no future"Why the FUCK am I not fucking surprised?This fucker is literally a future Jeremy Bicha.
>>108128900No, Wayland doesn't.You know why every time these threads happen, you get a ton of people telling you to "just use KDE"?Its because KDE built on and extended the core Wayland protocols (which are largely gatekept by Gnome freaks) to make something that actually functions for people.KDE, Vaxry, even fucking Steam have had to drag Wayland, kicking and screaming, into something that even now is a shitty imitation of what Ubuntu had with compiz in like 2010.Here, this shows you how bad the Wayland situation is: https://wayland.app/protocols/Notice how all the "protocols" to make a functioning desktop are put out by different developer teams?You're not using "Wayland", because core Wayland is borderline truly unusable, youre using KDE.
It's pretty likely that the xlibre guy belongs to the wayland group so they can play both sides and try to kill proper forks.
>>108128812XLibre was crap from the get-go. The premise that you can just somehow modernise a legacy codebase that's as much of a steaming heap of garbage as Xorg was never going to work out.The Phoenix X Server is the future of Xorg.
>>108129249I use KDE and Plasma Wayland is definitely missing some features that X had. Some things work better though.
>>108129249KDE can do everything Compiz could and more with its effects. Yes, even the spinning cube is there.
>>108128931Meme DE, meme WM, and almost every window manager except the 5 of them that work on wayland are irrelevant. Pet projects and the retards that use them don't get to drag down the entire ecosystem with them.
>>108129249bro really tried to sneak vaxry in the middle there kek
>>108129249Based. Absolutely based. But fuck, what are we supposed to use? Xlibre, Xorg, or move on to OpenBSD where we have Xenocara? The xlibre dev doesnt even know how to code man, and the freedesktop people want Xorg dead. What now?
>>108128899that particular guy is known for being very anti lgbt and a magatard, not that you would know retard
i still cant have an always togglable drop down terminal in any wayland compositor.
>>108129314Yakuake exists.
>>108129295I bet you are either a Gnome dev, retard, or both.
>>108129249>which are largely gatekept by Gnome freaksThis is the biggest problem with Wayland.>usecase for tray icons?!
>>108129318i know. i tried it.
>>108129325"Y-you are g-guhnome dev"Keep seething retard
>>108129355I dont know how retarted do you need to be to actually think that the 5 or less compositors/window managers or whatever the fuck they are called on wayland, are better than every window manager on X. Enjoy your buggy Guhnome with your Gayland, retard.
>>108129300>Xlibre dev doesn't know how to codeYet you have popular (though not mainstream) distros putting Xlibre in their repos, running testing on it for months and months, and somehow they like it more than Xorg.Turns out some meme mistake that waytrannies screengrabbed doesn't make one a code or nocoder. Xlibre is so far a wildly more successful project than Wayland, going on 17 years now with barely usable functionality.
>>108128931Does Openbox support it? Wayland will not be ready until Openbox supports it.
>>108129378The latest version of openbox is from 2015 so no.
>barely 30 replies>this amount of ESL typos in favor of XLibreI'm nooticing
>>108129378LabWC is functionally identical:https://labwc.github.io/
>>108129378It will never be fully ready. There are so many programms that refuse to use Wayland or just dont care and will forever stay on X, so Wayland will never fully replace X. And the guys that say that Wayland is more secure than X are wrong, look at OpenBSD, the most secure operating system made, yet it still uses a fork of Xorg called Xenocara.
>>108129275turns out you can just go ahead and do things>you cant modernize itthen why it is currently being modernized at breakneck speed?Maybe your waytranny gnome devs were just lazy liars?>>108129298yes and? I'm 50/50 on Vaxry, I agree with some of his opinions and disagree on others. Fact remains that even you cant deny is that he has almost singlehandedly built a functional system that shamed the core wayland devs so badly that they tried to ban him from as much as possible.Same with Steam, remember "frog protocols"? First, no way was "frog" an accident. Steam knows exactly what kind of people are behind wayland and how "frog" would trigger them. Second, steam taking that shot across the bow with wayland was the only reason you got a core protocol or two accepted and merged. And even then, once Steam turned its attention elsewhere, the wayland devs went back to being lazy, bikeshedding cancel artists.This cadre of people decided to activly stonewall and kill Xorg, and they currently need to be leashed up and dragged into developing core wayland protocols for core functionality. The best thing to do would be to get rid of this cadre of people entirely. They have proven twice now what they are and how badly they fuck things up, do you need a third time?
>>108129426>then why it is currently being modernized at breakneck speed?>Maybe your waytranny gnome devs were just lazy liars?They didn't delete all of the code yet, so no the troons didn't lie to you. It's still a steaming pile of junk.A clean re-write like Phoenix is a better path forward.
>>108129249>>108129281>>108129286>>108129325>>108129373*krashes*
>>108129421>Inspired by OpenboxIt's not the real McCoy. Sorry.Wayland has to support Openbox itself, or it will never be ready.>>108129397So? Wayland can't even support this simple DE. They need to fix that just like they need to fix it for XFCE.>>108129423This guy knows. Everyone has to be using the same thing before it can be considered ready.
>>108129439Literally never happens. Try not using an out-of-date distro.
>>108129448>It's not the real McCoy. Sorry.It uses the exact same config files. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck.https://labwc.github.io/getting-started.html
>>108128812>what the fuck are we supposed to use then?I've been asking this myself ever since Xlibre came out. I understand they're trying their best to kill Xorg, but they should at least give us a solid replacement before they do it first. Every time I try out Wayland it's a pita with all sorts of issues, and I'm saying this as someone who uses KDE.
when will xfig be ported to wayland?
>>108129472Just run it in XWayland
Install GNU Herd, you don't need a desktop, write a tui 4chan browser.
>>108129463>>108129421labwc uses wlroots, which was largely developed by our good pal Drew DeVault.There are some lines I will not be fucking crossing. Software that uses that library or anything else developed by Drew, or Jeremy Bicha, is that line.
>>108129481might as well just keep using X in the first place then
>>108129481>does your shit not work in our paradigm even after 17 years?>just run it in our X-server-in-a-box that is required because nobody else's shit works in our paradigm after 17 years either
>>108129471>I understand they're trying their best to kill XorgThe same problem who claim xorg is unfixable/unworkable because it's old legacy code don't seem to understand Wayland turns 18 this year.
>>108129485(It's OK. I am making a point about how absurd the idea that a DE not supporting Wayland is somehow a problem with Wayland is.)
>>108129499Software doesn't magically work on a completely different display server. You either need to port it (Only the developers of Xfig can do that) or use a translation layer.
>>108129523Although, I'm not sure why you'd want Xfig to be ported to Wayland in the first place. This looks terrible.
>>108129523why don't wayland fags just make something as good as xfig that only works on wayland?
>>108129550>Xfig>GoodLook at >>108129548 and say that it's honestly good. The font rendering is pathetic.
>>108129561works on my machineI don't know what you fucked up to make simple xft font rendering look that weird
>>108129584Post XResources.
>>108129448>So? Wayland can't even support this simple DE. They need to fix that just like they need to fix it for XFCE.That's not how it works. Wayland is just a protocol. A set of rules. The desktop devs have to implement it by themselves.
>>108129218Not only that, he's a confirmed gnome shill on /g/
>>108129596You're talking to someone that doesn't even know how Xorg (also just a protocol), works. Nothing supported Xorg out-of-the-box, it had to programmed for that. The same is true of Wayland.
>>108129481See? Xorg can NEVER be truly replaced, yet they want it gone, and the Xlibre dev doesnt even know how to code. What the hell are we supposed to use? Please someone, atleast try anwsering this.
>>108129611I bet LibreOffice Draw is a million times less shit and also has native Wayland support.
>>108129622>bigger and bloateder is better
>>108129611Arcanfe
>>108129611OpenBSD.
>>108129628Also non-shit fonts.
>>108128812I use dwm on X11, GNOME on Wayland, whichever I feel like using that daythey both workthey're both indescernible in day to day useno normal person should care this much
>>108129592not doing shit in my XResources except for urxvt settings
>>108129662Where is your DPI and fonts, etc, configured then? I don't think I'm doing anything special, it's just this crap.
>>108129306>anti lgbt>magatardoh no...politics.grow up, fag.
>>108129672nowherethat's for hidpi trannies
>>108129596>>108129607Sorry for the confusion but I meant for that post to be so over the top wrong that it was obviously sarcasm. I understand that the DE devs have to implement Wayland. I chose Openbox as an impossible case for Wayland support because it is no longer being developed.I didn't want my tone to be so obvious that it wasn't funny but I guess I missed the mark.
>>108129426>then why it is currently being modernized at breakneck speed?Citation needed
>>108129678I'm not even using a HiDPI display. The menus also bug out like crazy.Look at this garbage.
>>108129687probably because your gay ass arch system is a broken piece of shit
>>108129692I highly doubt it'd be any different in say Debian. I just built the latest xfig-git and this is how it is.(The released version won't build with GCC 15)
>>108129703
>>108129548looks fine here
>>108129611If you insist on running with this "the xlibre dev doesn't know what he's doing!!!!!!!" shit, people have already told you:Phoenix, a reimplementation of Xorg in ZigArcan with X and Wayland compatibility layersPersonally I see plenty of evidence that the guy in charge of xlibre knows what he is doing, at bare minimum from a project management standpoint.I also would love if someone could explain using freshman level words what the fuck Arcan is and how it works, because everything surrounding it online seems to be basically Hermeticist word salad.
>>108129843Arcan is a video game engine / psychics simulation environment / multimedia pipeline turned display server. Why yes, it was written by a PHD scientist, how did you guess?
>>108129856How does this fit into the overall graphics stack? Do we still have layers and abstractions or are we getting rid of abstractions entirely?
>>108129867No idea. I assume it still builds on top of KMS like Wayland does as the Xorg DDX model is a shit one.
>>108129218>>the people fucking up the Linux desktopThere is no linux desktop, there are no developers or software and no compatibility. Never has beenIt's crazy how deranged these people areThere's exactly 1 chance for linux to ever get on desktop at all, and that's if Google or Nvidia some other large company decides to make desktops. Then they will make a usable OS. You can't do it with no funding and no developers, and no leadership.
>>108129843>Personally I see plenty of evidence that the guy in charge of xlibre knows what he is doing, at bare minimum from a project management standpoint.Didn't he get told off from Freedesktop for submitting untested code for review?What I've seen is only mildly damning, there are popular projects that do worse, but it really looks like he has more enthusiasm than sense
>>108129703i'm on debian, never heard of xfig beforejust installed it, looks and works fine
>>108129925Worse than that they kicked him off the project and then after that had to clean up the mess he made because many of his changes broke important shit which is the complete opposite of what you want for something that is mostly in maintenance mode. Ideally you don't want to touch any of the legacy crap at all in case you accidentally regress it.This is where something like Phoenix can do better because they have an opportunity to re-architect things without worrying about legacy/backwards compatibility or causing regressions.
>>108129913Ibm/redhat is trying with systemd/wayland/everything /g/ hates.
>>108128812> even the guys that madeThe guys who infiltrated and destroyed the project. All the original devs who made x11 are gone.> the main Xlibre dev barely even knows CDoesn't matter. Xlibre has multiple contributors. Forking x11 was never a technical concern anyway, it was political.
>>108129913>There is no linux desktop, there are no developers or software and no compatibility. Never has beenHow come that I'm using a linux desktop right now
>>108128812what do you actually want that X is missing? I said ACTUALLY WANT.
>>108130143a gf
>>108130177>gf missing XShe doesn't have two X, just one?
>>108130077>How come that I'm using a linux desktop right nowYou're trans
Why should I believe these claims that metux is this incompetent nocoder when various unpozzed distros seem to have zero issue with him or his project?>lol he made a mistake and it was fixed in the bug trackerand?And on top of this, all these accusations of shitting up the xorg project seem to be coming from the same people who hate him and have said openly "we own xorg, not you" and "we worked hard to kill xorg". Why should I believe this stuff?The people that put out distros that aim to give me more choices and respect muh freedums seem to like him. The people that have taken the linux desktop from "broken" to "absolutely shattered into a million pieces" and who want me dead for being a straight white non-pdf-filic male seem to hate him.
>>108128900Because we remember dishonest paid shills claiming that it is ready since forever. It's apparently ready every year man. It's so ready that they have to remove xorg support to force people to use it. Remember how they claimed that everyone is using Wayland until Firefox released their stats and it turns your kind is actually a minority? But the shill campaign sponsored by RH must go on. Fuck off.
>>108129674>gets proven wrong>whinesyou are the snowflake faggot
>>108129275Don't tell microsoft this.
>>108128974They've had a wayland roadmap.
>>108130655it's progressing, but so much is pushed onto the window manager in wayland. it'll take a lot of effort to get support equal to what kde has.
>>108128812you should see the shit code he writes. he has added garbage "utilities" that you see noobs write like "le safe_free(void*)"
>>108130385>implying Wayland hasn't been ready for years>implying the reason X.org is getting deprecated is because muh gubermind gunzbirazy to "force" people to use a decent system and not because nobody wants to keep maintaining some boomer abomination with 50k tons of steaming-hot shit under the hood>things that never happenedIt's hilarious to see fartix-using dorky losers squirm and writhe as they slowly fade into irrelevance.
>>108130971Whenever I see Lain in a post I think it's either a tranny or some troll pretending to be a tranny.
>>108130643They already know that are frantically busy trying to re-write Windows in vibe coded Rust whilst hoping nobody notices everything they're breaking.
>>108130778>it's progressingAt a glacial pace yes.
>>108130971hi Jordan
>>108128900>Why do losers keep saying this?Because it's 100% true and no matter how much you scream "LALALALALACANTHEARYOU" it still is true. You're the worst thing about FOSS. You think every criticism is some conspiracy against FOSS so instead of fixing things, you waste time and resources on endlessly screaming everything is fine, nothing is wrong. Which is why people just move on to other things and disengage with FOSS while you wonder "why doesn't anyone use our stuff instead of Microsoft?"
>>108131023Silly you, shitty ad hom whenever you're wrong isn't something you're supposed to admit you do.>>108131136It's so "100% true" that you can't give a single argument.
>>108131417>ad homYeah. You kind of proved me right.
>"g-give arguments!">refuses to read the rest of the threadno (You)s today
>>108129984/g/ just wants linux to be a tinkertranny hobby they can sink time into. IBM/Redhat wants to create a quality OS which they can sell support for. Resisting Red Hat is just being contrarian for the sake of it.
>>108131721redhat just likes pushing incomplete slop.
>>108131756You have no serious alternatives, otherwise you're left letting some fool who doesn't know the XOR syntax in C write critical software. At that point, why not just put your trust into Winjeets+AI?
>>108131681So many arguments ITT you couldn't even point to a post that contains one. THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF XDORKS
>>108131774... there's nothing wrong with X.
>>108131905It'll quickly become out of date, software will stop working on it and modern drivers will have issues.
>>108129925>>108129947If his code was so terrible, maybe they shouldn't have spent a couple of years merging his merge requests? It was not really a secret that he wanted to do big refactors and shit so they should have just set "no" if that wasn't their vision for the project.
>>108132216>out of dateIf something works, it doesn't need constant updootes.
>>108132415Hardware improves, especially gpus, and no one is ever going to make sure they support antiquated platforms. How long do you give it until most web browsers give you issues on X?
>>108132455GPU driver code is all in the kernel. New GPUs existing has no relevance to xorg which already uses libdrm for this.
Hello, I'm a debianite, what's a good xlibre distro that's not too hard and that seems like it will keep being maintained and developed for some time?
>>108132216two more weeks
>>108132216you do realize that they stopped working on X years ago? that's why xlibre finally forked. X is going to be fine for years unless you absolutely must have HDR or something.
>>108129306you should think of these people as most likely foreign adversary to anything in the west. They view wayland as a threat for some reason.
>>108130385You are a paid shill!
>>108132615>for years unless>unlessYou’re already coping with your performative reluctance to move with the times, and to what benefit?
>>108132591Devuan is Debian but without systemd, they are pretty enthusiastic about xlibre
>>108132615he's not gonna argue in good faith, if that's what you were hoping
>>108132368Yeah, you're right they shouldn't have taken them in the first place but he was harassing the maintainers and trying to convince them they were "low risk", etc, and in the end they caved and merged his changes.
>>108133739>he was harassing the maintainersdo you have any evidence for this or are you just making things up
>>108133797I don't because the fags don't offer transparency into their CoC.
>>108129448>wayland is not ready because some unmaintained program from a decade ago doesn't support itThank you for confirming my assumption that people like you are retarded.
>>108130377If you choose not to believe your own eyes then there is nothing anybody can do to change your mind, just don't come crying here asking for help when he breaks your shit with his untested commits.
>>108128812Just use X. Don't fall for a divide and conquer tactics made by foss hating kikes.
>>108134784>foss hating kikes.Huh? If anything it's the constant shilling against wayland/systemd/rust that is making me suspicious that you fags are paid microshit shills.
>>108134811I dont think that you know the whole story. Wayland is NOT ready yet, and yet they try to make everybody switch to it. If you use an Nvidia GPU, or any window manager except the 5 on Wayland, or Xfce, Mate, Lxde, etc. then you are fucked with Wayland. I hate that they try to force Wayland upon us, though if it will be ready in 2029 then maybe I will switch. And Systemd is extremly bloated for no reason. It has like 1.6 milion lines of code, when Runit has just about 1000 and does the job great. It is also forced upon us, which again I hate because I want my stuff to work, and not be forced to use shit. And the rewrites in Rust are almost always shit because either they take away functionality or they are licensed under the permissive MIT license. I think that the guys that force Systemd, Rust, or Wayland are Microsoft shills that try to eliminate all choice and force people to use unfinished shit, so they will switch back to Windows.
>>108135519You're delusional and retarded, no one is forcing you to do anything, stick to fartix or devuan or whatever tinkertranny distro that appeals to your contrarianism and stop shitting up this board
>>108135519News flash: Xorg isn't ready yet either (there are modern features that Wayland supports properly that Xorg does not yet).They are both bug ridden pieces of shit it's just that one is actively developed and the other is rotting.Pick whichever you want but it's obvious that Wayland will get better where as Xorg will not.
>>108129249>Notice how all the "protocols" to make a functioning desktop are put out by different developer teams?>You're not using "Wayland", because core Wayland is borderline truly unusable, youre using KDE.And that is relevant to me how? I'm still using wayland and it works.
>>108136151It's not relevant. He's so obtuse he doesn't even know that X11 does the exact same thing.>Oh, your window manager implement EWMH which is not part of core X11.>You're not using "X11" you're using KDEShut the fuck up. That's not how any of that works.
>>108136217Wayland doesn't even have anything comparable to EMWH since it doesn't support window managers.
>>108136225It combines the two functions into one (the compositor performs the role of the Xorg Server and Windowing system in one). It does have a hints system for some things actually, even if it's not quite as extensive (same as X11 really, no guarantee anything supports EWMH and will honour it).
>>108136233Except spotty EWMH support doesn't create any problems forr you when you're using an actual application.All it affects are internal desktop shit like panels. So the only way EWMH matters when you're already tinkering and combine different third-party panels/workspace switchers/etc and it's your own fault.But Wayland already gets in your way if you just want to launch a PS2 emulator.
>>108136262The developer that disabled Wayland in PCSX2 is a retard by the way:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OMxCC6BFxEThey get in the way of themselves.
>>108136297How is it the dev's fault that Wayland does not support proper window positioning, an extremely basic display server feature that every other desktop OS on the planet Earth is capable of.
>>108136303The guy doesn't even like Linux period and does everything to sabotage it.
>>108128812in what language is 2^16 "2 to the power of 16" and not 2 XOR 16?
>>108136342English.
>>108136117>where as Xorg will notnobody tell him
>>108137249>some random guy will do better at developing xorg than the og devs that deemed it unmaintainable and fucked off to waylanddoubt.
>>108137590>than the og devs that deemed it unmaintainablethe og devs who maintained it and modernized into a clean modular code base?they never did that, you're thinking of fags from Red Hat that did small maintenance work on it for a few months that took over xorg development.The actual talents like Keith Packard were poached by FAANG for huge salaries.
>>108137621And where is Keith Packard now? He still develops software at the ripe age of 60 as far as I know. He had plenty of ideas about Xorg:https://keithp.com/x-ideas/He's not contributing to XLibre that's for sure.
>>108137621>fags from Red Hat that did small maintenance work on it for a few months that took over xorg developmentsometimes not even from Red Hat, and usually in their 20s. some people in power were literal children when Wayland started
>>108137712>>108137621Also, he didn't just work for FAANGs. You know DRM leasing, that thing that is vitally important for VR headsets?That was his baby and he was contracted by Valve to work on that:https://www.phoronix.com/news/KeithP-DRM-Leases-VulkanKeith has contributions all over the place.
>>108134750>>108129682
>>108128900It's designed like garbage.
>>108129674Blow your fucking brains out. You’ll double your IQ
>>108138021You don't get to say this when the alternative is X.org.
