a 128kbps opus file will reach 20kHz equivalent of a 320kbps mp3 file, at 20kHz it is likely above what your ears are capable of hearing.
Because Opus is intended for longform audio like podcasts and audiobooks. A better question is why FLAC is still everywhere when it barely has any difference compared to lossy audio.
>>108146571Bigger file size means bigger quality!
>>108146571>Because Opus is intended for longform audio like podcasts and audiobooks.who cares what its intended for, if it also excels in other areas? MP3 needs more than twice the bitrate to reach parity.
I was kinda blown away when I tested opus last year. I now stream/download all music to my phone as 128k vbr opus
99%+ of the worlds population uses streaming media nowadays which leaves them with no influence over how the stuff is compressed and stored.you can stream FLAC over LTE or 5G without any issues in 99% of the congo, zimbabwe and papua new guinea.datacaps are something only retarded Germans do nowadays (don't ask me how I know)
>>108146431I'm nearly 40 years old, I lost 60% of my earing on my left ear, I have tinnitus on my right ear, I already can't ear most frequencies only "young people" can earthere was a time where I could sit down and do a blind test and definitely hear the differencethese days I'm just happy if I can still enjoy the music without the tinnitus overpowering itI cannot even begin to give a shit about audio formats anymore
>>108146431>all that matters is frequency.128kbs is bad across the board. think of your music file as a loaf of bread, 128kbps is just far less slices than 320kbps.
>>108146431Old devices not being compatible would be my guess *cough*crApple*cough*>>108146795If you're streaming there's no point to use flac, you won't notice the difference against 192-256kbps opus on a decent audio system, on phones it's not even a contest.
>>108146431MP3 has a lower decoding complexity than Opus and is unsurprisingly more backwards compatible. It's the same deal with why we're still using JPG/PNG/GIF despite Webp being an excellent replacement, at least for PNG/GIF.Opus audio players never really became a thing so if you want to enjoy Opus for say jogging with wired cans then you have to buy an Android phone for that which is awkward/bulky since you'd have to carry your main phone + your "Opus" phone strapped to your arm. Most people just accept getting zogged with bluetooth + streaming even though this involves converting lossy MP3/AAC audio to lossy Bluetooth audio lol.
>>108146936>think of your music file as a loaf of breadmvtt detected
>>108146431>mp3>it just werks>opus>doesn’t werkif you’re too much if a snowflake for mo3 go with aac, opus is for retards
~130kbps Opus has the same annoing metallic sounding artifacts as MP3 maybe at marginally lower bitrates, but at 320kbps the differences in audio quality are marginal, but the compatiblity with MP3 is much better.
I haven't willingly used MP3 for 15 years now. Speak for yourself.
>>108147002>>108147050>>108146981M4A and Vorbis have been supported on devices for over 20 years at this point. There's no good reason to use MP3 in 2025.
>>108147050where the fuck does opus not work?you do know that audio on youtube is opus will aac fallback (except livestreams, where it is aac, but the vods are opus), right?
>>108147102In sensibly priced standalone players that you might take along when walking in nature.
>>108147102I dont want a fucking fallback format for my car’s audio systemaac is significantly better than mp3 in quality, has almost as much hardware support as mp3, is still actively developed and is like 15% less filesize efficient. There’s just no reason for anything except aac (if lossy) and flac (if lossless)
opus is based because I steal my music from youtube (yt-dlp)
>>108147130aac is the fallback format, did you misread my post>>108147126unless you mean landfill-quality player, any reasonably-priced device that isn't 20 years old can play opus
>>108146431Same reason why I use jpeg instead of webp
>>108147152>unless you mean landfill-quality player, any reasonably-priced device that isn't 20 years old can play opusOver 100€ players are not reasonably priced, and that's everything that's available anymore thanks to fartphones taking all the market. Most cheap chinese players can play aac and some even opus, but usually the time stretching algorithm doesn't work with it, so audiobooks at least need to be re-encoded to mp3 anyway.
>>108147175I actually dunno what "reasonably-priced" means, I just went to /iemg/ and found the cheapest PMP they recommend, which is 50€, and checked that it supports opus
>>108147152aac is the fallback format because it makes sense at youtube’s scale, just like av1 makes sense at toutube’s scaleopus makes no fucking sense if my car won’t play it, same as av1 doesn’t make sense if you have a dinky mini pc who can’t play the fucking thing through plexjust use aac. there is no wuantity of music where you’ll feel the filesize difference between 192 kbps aac and 144 kbps opus
>>108147185If you mean FiiO SNOWSKY Echo Mini listed in shopping guide, it doesn't seem to support Opus, only MP3/OGG/M4A/WMA, and actually buying it at that price seems to be rather difficult.
>>108146431Firstly, lossy compression removes from the entire frequency range. The fact that opus can go up to 20khz is like marveling over someones perfectly manicured nails, ignoring that the rest of their arm is gangrenous with chunks missing.Secondly, is 2026, lossy audio compression has no justification to still exist.
>>108147096Vorbis is the JPG2000 of the audio codec world, it's a strange in-between MP3 and Opus so you might as well skip straight to Opus. BUT again if you want Opus you have to use an Android Phone.It's very unfair what happened to Opus, no Opus music players, no Opus replacing the shitty SBC bluetooth codec, no Opus replacing whatever the fuck is used for cellphone calls.Any $20 wallmart Android phone will do just fine for Opus but the problem is that it's awkward to do picrel. Opus music players would fix this but sadly this will never happen because streaming is too profitable...
>>108147271Opus is already being used all over the place. People just don't realize it because it's in the backend. No one cares about local lossy music anymore these days, everyone is streaming. Even people who don't like cloud streaming are still doing self-hosted music streaming.
>>108147286everyone is streaming>Even people who don't like cloud streaming are still doing self-hosted music streaming.in what fucking universe is locally hosted streaming more common than playing music saved on your laptop
>>108146583Even if you don't hear it you still feel it
>>108147238OGG is just a container, both opus and vorbis are OGG codecs
>>108147333In specs OGG invariably refers to Vorbis.
>>108146571How the fuck am I going to make mp3s for legacy devices that don't support opus, or opus files for modern devices, without lossless source material? It's like you're arguing why should stores sell ingredients when you could just buy pre-made dishes or soups that include those ingredients. You're fucking retarded. I don't archive FLAC because I think I can tell the difference between it and a lossy encode. I archive it because without it there's nothing to make lossy encodes from in the first place. I share them with others so they can choose how to encode files themselves. If they want they can just listen to it lossless, who cares?
Let me guess you need more
>>108147286>No one cares about local lossy music anymore these days, everyone is streaming.Well, almost everybody.And the people not yet streaming are exactly the kind of people so stuck in the past they still use inferior outdated formats.
>>108147242>Secondly, is 2026, lossy audio compression has no justification to still exist.Have you seen NAND prices lately?My phone has a decent 512GB of storage but I don't feel like filling it up with lossless music when lossy at a reasonable bitrate sounds exactly the same.
>>108147433>And the people not yet streaming are exactly the kind of people so stuck in the past they still use inferior outdated formatsquite telling that you don't listen to music not unavailable on streaming services
>>108147450>My phone has a decent 512GB of storage but I don't feel like filling it up with lossless music when lossy at a reasonable bitrate sounds exactly the same.Which is why you store the FLAC files at home and stream them to your phone using lossy. Why would you store your entire music library on your device at all times when you can just cache what you actually listen to? >>108147433TRVKE
>>108147433There are good reasons not to stream. A lot of the music I want to listen to is not on streaming. The versions of albums with specific mastering or bonus tracks that I want are not on streaming. But I do have an Apple Music subscription. Last night I was up until like 5am just listening to music on my phone. I went through a bunch of stuff in my local library then thought of some songs that aren't in there so I went to Apple Music for them. A few things about the streaming experience annoyed me and I found myself wishing I just had all those songs locally. I actually have most of them on my seedbox but I haven't gotten around to downloading everything and doing conversions yet.
>>108147477HDD prices are hiking to ridiculous amounts as well.
>>108147476meant to say not available. FUCK my ass
>>108147242What’s the point of lossless outside of being a good master for encoding to lossy?I convert to 256 kbps vbr aac and delete the original because what would I keep the flac for? i dont edit music (the whole point of lossless) and a high bitrate lossy is indistinguishable
>>108147489So? If you have lossless files to convert from then you aren't going to delete them to replace them with lossy files. The alternative is you already have loss files and are converting them to another lossy format, in which case you're being retarded and are objectively wrong.
>>108147477>Why would you store your entire music library on your device at all timesSo I can have an immense catalog of music available when I'm on a bus sitting in traffic and don't want to drain my limited mobile data with streaming.
>>108146431Platform compatibility>>108146571Can't really answer why it's everywhere, but flac and other non-lossy formats are definitely important for archival purposes. Having them available is a good thing since distribution creates longevity, but yeah we shouldn't be like streaming flac (looking at you spotify)
>>108147497You're stuck with that AAC file forever and now have no other choice.
>>108147516Drain your limited data? Audio takes KILOBITS per second. An entire song in a lossy format going to be less than uploading a photo you take with your phone. In your situation it STILL makes more sense to stream because it takes next to no data, while saving you gigabytes of local storage space.
>>108147521There is nothing wrong with streaming FLAC. Removing the option would be a fucking curse upon us because almost all music piracy (that isn't of the meme YouTube ripping variety) now uses lossless steaming. If you have limited bandwidth just turn it off. I have no issue streaming lossless on my home wifi and I never stream on mobile data.
>>108147477>Why would you store your entire music library on your device at all times when you can just cache what you actually listen to?Because I don't know in advance what I'll want to listen to.At home I have unlimited 5G so no issue but whenever I go abroad for a few weeks I update my music collection and upload some movies I haven't seen yet to my phone.
>>108147477>>Why would you store your entire music library on your device at all times>travel to fucknowhere, shitholeland>pay $420 buckaroos for data>go visit your grandma living in rural cowland or just take the underground metro>lol no music 4 u>random cuts when the network gets molested by harsh weather or has some random hiccup>extra battery drain for absolutely no reasonwhat fucking crazy logic is that? 30gb of music on your phone is infinitely superior in practically every single way
>>108147542I purchase non expiring mobile data by the GB. I make that shit last. I don't sit around watching tiktok videos everywhere I go like some people do. I could stream music but it will have an impact and I don't need to because I have a massive collection anyway.
>>108147529Well yes but what would I want to replace those files with? They work everywhere, they’re extremely high quality. Barring crazy shit like bionic super-ears in 2050 what reason would I have to replace anything?
>>108146431Why are we using compressed files at all? Pic rel is all you need to decern the difference between a low quality 320 kbps mp3 and a FLAC file. Can't hear the difference? Perhaps you're a boomer.
>>108147547>If you have limited bandwidth just turn it off.I did that on Deezer a few years ago.Made my data use explode.Turned out Deezer had a bug in their UI and "low quality" was actually lossless and "lossless" was actually low quality lossy.I reported the bug, no idea how long they had it but apparently no audiophile had noticed it.
>>108147593you know FLAC is compressed, right?
>>108147562Do you think you stream audio every single time you play it? Instead of wasting 30GB on your phone you could stream music and keep the 15GB or less you actually listen to on a regular basis.>>108147569>>108147560And in that case you're STILL better off using a self-hosted streaming server and just caching your entire library while on wifi. That way any updates you do to files are always synced.
>>108147603You realize FLAC has to decompressed into WAV for you to listen to it right?
>>108147589Well in my case I used AAC to encode a bunch of shit for my phone. My collection kept growing. Eventually it reached the point where I'm running out of storage so I want to redo everything with opus. I have the option because I kept the FLACs. I bought an external hard drive to keep all my music on so it's not a big deal to me. I figured I'd be buying a new phone with more storage by now but we know how that's going.
>>108147618and so does every other formatmp3 doesn't play directly into your phones, it's decoded into WAV
>>108147593There was that meme site where you could supposedly test this, I always passed regardless of what headphones I used (ATH-M40x) etc...And yet there are still those insisting you can't hear it. Kek. It's a very specific type of noise that anyone with good ears can hear, it sounds less immersive, and with the correct sound setup, it bothers you.
>>108147477> and stream them to your phone using lossyUtterly disgusting. Lossy should not be used by any person for any reason. There is no point having lossless if you don't use it.
>>108147608>bro just host your own music streaming service on a 24/7 proxmox-running homelab>so that you can save 15GB on your phone am I taking crazy pills here or
>>108147497Lossy audio files cause brain damage. This whole transparency has become a self fulfilling prophesy, your auditory center has atrophied. Lossy audio compression should be illegal.
>>108147650You fell for a meme. You can't hear a difference between a properly encoded lossy audio stream and the uncompressed source.Every time someone with magic ears like you gets tested in a proper ABX listening test, you fail. >>108147662Yes you should have a home server. You're on /g/ what are you even talking about?
>>108147650>Lossy should not be used by any person for any reason.Storage on mobile devices is not getting any cheaper. It's not growing at a healthy pace right now. Things have stalled.>There is no point having lossless if you don't use it.It's archival grade. You can't do lossy encodes without it. I share with other people on soulseek and private trackers, all lossless, so they can do with the files whatever they choose.
>>108146431128k mp3 is fully transparent for meas is 96k opus
>>108147670I keep a home server as a convenient garbage can for all my digital hoarding needs, but using it to stream music to my phone, which has a perfectly fine 500 GB storage to fill, so that I get an objectively worse experience, is actual insanity
>>108147542>Audio takes KILOBITS per second.It's 1411 kbps on Deezer.Let's say I listen to music for 12 hours a day.That would be 58GB.Not an issue at home on your local provider, but abroad on a roaming service that can destroy your daily limit.
>>108147689How is it the worse experience? You get free bi-directional syncing automatically.>which has a perfectly fine 500GB storage to fillYou were just complaining about how you didn't want to fill your 512GB lossless music, but now you're humble bragging about how much space you have to fill? This contrarianism is absurd. Doing things in worse, less efficient ways just to do them in worse, less efficient ways. >>108147692Why would you even stream FLAC audio? Maybe if you have earbuds that can't stream vorbis or aac. But that's about the only reason.
>>108147692Deezer uses FLAC, that value represents uncompressed PCM audio. It's going to shave some off of that. But some other streaming services go further and stream 24 bit FLAC.
>>108147674>You can't do lossy encodes without it.Given the piss poor setup that a phone + wireless headphones necessitate you wont be able to tell whether you used a flac or a shitty 192 kbps mp3 as source. hell you’d be lucky to tell apart a 128 kbps mp3.>I share with other people on soulseek and private trackers, all lossless, so they can do with the files whatever they choose.i appreciate that
>>108147714>wireless headphonesI do not use these. I take the stupid fucking dongle with me, if I'm lucky to not lose it, and use it to plug in wired headphones even if I resent it.
>>108147709>Why would you even stream FLAC audio?I don't, that's my point.
>>108147670Not a single proper ABX test has ever been created. They go entirely off subjective vibes rather than objective perception. When details are missing you hallucinate them. Which often makes it difficult to easily notice when they are missing. But the point of audio recording is to accurately capture not create a vague hallucination guide.
>>10814770916b 48k flac is what, 900-ish kbps on average?for phone 192 kbps is more than enough. the filesize difference is huge and the downside nonexistent>Doing things in worse, less efficient ways just to do them in worse, less efficient ways.not sure if bait
>>108147709>Why would you even stream FLAC audio?Because you can. If I'm at home my connection is 800mbit. I could stream 24 bit ALAC from Apple Music all day long and it's no problem for me. It's their CDN bill, not mine.
>>108147728Okay. I was talking about streaming lossy audio to your phone. Self-hosted streaming converts your audio to lossy on the fly before streaming it to you. >>108147739>Not a single proper ABX test has ever been created. What kind of cope is this? >objective perceptionOxymoron. >>108147744Great, you can save even more space by having only the music your listen to in your collection cached on your phone. If anyone is baiting here it's you. >>108147751Go ahead then I guess. I wouldn't waste my phone's storage on caching lossless audio though.
>>108147739Holy cope, lol
>>108147777>objective perception>Oxymoron. If I speak to you a sequence of words and then you repeat them back accurately, that is objective perception. A proper ABX test would test the objective ability to hear extremely fine details that are destroyed by lossy audio compression.
>>108147803Your sense of sound isn't objective, it's likely our most subjective sense. You even said so yourself. ABX tests are very easily to create, and they will show that you are guessing what is what.
>>108146571Archiving and ensuring quality.
>>108146830>40 year old thinks he's 95lelhow much coffee and/or energy drinks are you chugging every day?
actually opus was used for voip and telecomm before anywhere else really
>>108146571>Because Opus is intended for longform audioHow is that? The algorithm works better on longer files?
>>108148188no, it has more protection against rotational velocidensity than mp3sit's not at FLACs level, but it lasts much longer than MP3s and that's for sure
>>108147477Nigga I'm not gonna SSH into my computer just to stream my flacs
>>108148244That's why you use jellyfin or something like it
