Is there any hope or future for Windows? How can they come back from this level of enshittification and self-destruction?
Just gonna use LTSC 2021 and hope someone writes compatibility patches for it over the years, like KernelEx for Win98 or One-Core-API for XP.
>>108182402The only hope is if they open source it, because Microsoft will never fire its incompetent retarded jeets.
>>108182698This. There's no turning back from enshittification.>>108182402If you don't like Linux start donating to the ReactOS team.You can also try using debloating scripts. I use Ameliorated Windows and it's been enough for me despite its caveats.
Just use linux and run your windows progrsms with wine.
>>108182402test
>>108182402the process is irreversible and it will only get worse. such is the way of corporate publicly traded organizations.
>>108182402Windows 11 is fine, all they have to do is not ship Copilot with 12 and it will be fire.
nothe most people have is muh alternating pattern cope that requires believing that 10 was good and not worse than 7
>>108182402Windows died with XP. Versions before and after XP were somewhere between pretty bad and incredibly awful, with 7 merely being aggressively mediocre.
>>108182960>Microsoft wants to replace its entire C and C++ codebaseThis is a good thing, though. People always crap on Windows saying it's an old OS with a lot of aging code, but now that they have the initiative to modernize their OS, people still dare crap on them.The Linux kernel has code as older as NT yet nobody bats an eye.
>>108184099They intend to vibe code the entire thing. It will be an utterly broken mess.
>>108184129That's a meme, Dave Cutler would BTFO everyone who dares to ruins his kernel. He still calls the shots at Microsoft, after all.Besides every code that goes into the kernel has to be reviewed by him, anyway. No matter if it is C, C++, Rust or another esoteric language, he is the watchdog of the kernel.Windows will be alright until he retires, then I would start to worry.
>>108184099do you trust modern jeetrosoft to "modernize" the OS without turning it into an even bigger, stinkier and shittier pile of trash?
Faggots always want others to fix their problems for them. If you want a better windows, join a third party project and help make it happen.
ReactOS is the answer. The Russians will save us.
>>108184077Windows 2000 was the purest OS. XP tainted the NT kernel with the DOS poison and introduced a lot of problems 2000 never had.
>>108182402>Is there any hope or future for Windows?No. It's not an operating system any more, it's cloud portal software, in fairness so is apple and linux now, all shite
>>108185938>Windows 2000 was the purest OStruthThank you. I worked on it as a dev and it was the work I was most proud of in my career.
>>108182402It's a total loss, they won't remove all that bloated crap like Candy Crush or any of the CoPilot shit nobody wants.
>>108182955Yeah but they're not going to not have copilot in w12Hell I wouldn't be surprised if w12 built around copilot like w8 was build around tablet use
>>108186013>Hell I wouldn't be surprised if w12 built around copilot like w8 was build around tablet useI think they said that was sort of the plan, I recall some articles about how they want to move away from mouse and keyboard entirely.
>>108184156anon dave cutler is 83 years old
I think the future of microshit is just shove everything through an AI and use linux as the main kernel and a stepping stone.There's no real hope because they're not focused on giving people what they want.Ever since 10 came out I was completely disheartened honestly. I was never a fan of Windows, they always made questionable decisions, even 7 to me wasn't "great", it was just not as bad. But 10 was the thing that told me "yeah, there is no hope for windows, this is it".Still used it for a long time, like a lot of people, reluctantly, because the alternatives had their own different set of issues. Though now I've been using linux for quite some time, but I can see where the cracks are as well, and you can tell there's hints of fuckery on linux as well (I guess that's the tradeoff of making it more windows user friendly and having more eyes on it) where you have more political divisions over very simple stuff like fucking program distribution methods and sudden "security concerns".
>>108186923Yet he is as lucid as ever.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi1Lq79mLeE
We install W11 on the computers just so we can run wXP/7 through the newest version of VMware.
>>108182402>How can they come back from this level of enshittification and self-destruction?Easily, for some reason anons on this board can't help, but assume that normalfags actually really hate Windows and are using it exclusively because of software compatibility. In reality, people mostly like Windows, what they don't like is the forced Copilot, increased amount of bugs and glitches, various downgrades like inability to move the taskbar and lower performance / increased memory usage. If all Win32 software stopped working on Windows 12, normalfags aren't gonna switch to Linux or macOS, normalfags DO actually prefer Windows to Linux and macOS. All Microsoft needs to do is to reverse the downgrades, stop pushing AI, stop having a newsworthy bug every month, and that's it, no need to even fix memory usage, they'll come back from it.
>>108182402>s there any hope or future for Windows?The answer to that was obviously "no" previous to 2010...
>>108184099>has code as older as NT yet nobody bats an eye.But that code is battle tested.Decade after decade. Proven.
>>108188457>All Microsoft needs to do is to reverse the downgrades, stop pushing AI, stop having a newsworthy bug every month, and that's it, no need to even fix memory usage, they'll come back from it.
>>108182402They already have perfectly fine working versions of Windows - it is Windows Server and Enterprise builds of workstation OS.They should just delete the current shitshow consumer branch entirely from existence. Problem solved.
it is my understanding that their consumer products are basically a loss leader and have been for a long time, microcock makes all its money from government contracts and azure and most institutions don't really give a fuck about enshittification or actually are the driving forces behind it
Does Microsoft even care about Windows as a consumer OS?
>>108189012They care, just for the wrong type of consumer. Not geeks, but women, gays, and jeets and other browns.
How have alternative OSes not come about since the worsening of Windows? I understand Linux, but people have been saying it's the year of linux desktop for nigh 20+ years.
>>108189012Not in the sense that they'll ever fix broken features and stop putting adverts and spyware in it. Ideally the OS should be a separate company and probably be open source with the official corporate distro come with support for a price. Microsoft simply makes way too much money elsewhere for Windows to be truly important to them as anything other than a source of almost free money from trapped users.
>>108189153Do you have any idea how hard and costly it is to develop and maintain an OS mostly out of labor of love?
>>108182402The enshittification started with 10 and 11 is just a continuation of it with a bunch of AI slop here and there, I imagine 12 will be no better
>>108182402I MIGHT come back if they pay me, but at this point I probably enjoy being a brokie more than using Windows.
>>108182402more indians will fix it
>>108189153The day windows dies instantly is the day laptop manufacturers decide to start shipping all their laptops with linux or macThat's literally just it
>>108189286>or macImpossible, Apple will never license their OS to other companies.>with linuxTrue, but it would be a mess because every company would pick their own distro and flavor and interoperability will tank all of a sudden.Alternatively: Solaris, if Larry Ellison gets his way and use his tactics to convince the US companies to use it.
>>108189377It's such an obvious pitfall that the big names would cooperate to create Android Desktop and then sprinkle their own toppings on it like they do with Windows already
>>108188216
>>108189377>Alternatively: Solaris, if Larry Ellison gets his way and use his tactics to convince the US companies to use it.The future of personal and enterprise computing is using Netbeans on Solaris.
>>108189605yeah that or chromeOS so everything will be webshit which everybody is moving towards with AI integration anyway
>>108182402They can't.Not without a lot of poos getting flushed.
>>108182402>Is there any hope or future for Windows?No but there isn't any future for Linux either.>How can they come back from this level of enshittification and self-destruction?They can't.>>108189605My money is on this faggotry. FTGE.
>>108189142In order words they want the Mac audience.
>>108189142I wonder how old hands like Cutler feel about how goddamned gay and stupid M$ has become.
>>108189741He pretty much has been disappointed with Microsoft since the Vista days.
>>108189801He could have pulled out 20 years ago and taken his fuckin lightning-in-a-jar brain somewhere better.
>>108189811Nah, the issue with Dave Cutler is, as bad as his job at Microsoft might be, the rest of the world became UNIX worshippers, and there is nothing else in the world that Cutler hates more than UNIX.
>>108189849He wasn't exactly wrong about that.
Any sane man abandoned all hope by the time Win10 came around.Win8 was no mistake, it was a vision. A vision of a computers' dark age.People still on Windows are a bad case of the sunken cost fallacy.Haven't looked back since 2015.
>>108182402Plenty of hope for Windows. Zero hope for windows users
>>108182698Literally impossible. Microsoft would have to find out who owns what code and get a license from all of them
>>108189849Based. UNIX is the biggest forced meme in history.
>>108182960This is good but they should rewrite most of Windows and the NT kernel, not just copy paste existing spaghetti code into Rust.
>>108190016That's actually remarkably accurate...
>>108189849And yet windows is on course to have less functionality than UNIX by the end of the decade.I'm surprised he hasn't killed himself.
There really isn't. Most of the Windows 7 team moved on (It's been almost 17 years), most of the code has been rustified and ai generated now. Microsoft needs an Ebussy like manager to make them remove bloat.
>>108182402They are destroying it on purpose arent they. Im sure microsoft wants its shit locked down harder than apple or android so has to kill itself before it can be reborn.
>>108189949Same, I used windows until 2023 but it was 7 and I was running out the clock on chrome support
>>108182402The only hope for "the future" of Windows is a dedicated Anon(s) decompiling any version back into source, them modifying it for modern usage, and publishing it for free before Microjew comes cracking down on it then sharing it by whatever means necessary (in person, hyphanet, etc) so that you can get a non-jewed, non-jeeted version of the OS that "just werks." Decompiling (ideally) Windows 95, or less desirably 2000, or even XP, Vista, or 7 then adjusting the code to run Win 11 equivalent software/plug ins, etc is the dream.
>>10818295512 will be a cloud based OS with no desktop environment and Recall marks 10 as the possible usecase for an officially released Microsoft OS.
>>108182960There has to be some way for this to be exploited, I just don't know how
>>108191556They're tired of maintaining the Windows product line for consumers.
>>108184156He's given up and sold out. The only hope is he perhaps has an old backup of it stored somewhere.
>>108190081>This is good but they should rewrite most of Windows and the NT kernel, not just copy paste existing spaghetti code into Rust.1 Engineer1 Month1 Million lines of code saar.
SAAAAAAAAAAAARS
>>108185983Based
>>108182402If the source for 10 to leak or them to just opensource the OS itself. It'll never happen though, there would be too much hackery and terrible shit that's just lurking in the OS and probably has been for years. Not to mention who much slopcode is now there.
>>108192362It's still heavily used in many industries. You won't see source code for another 20 years minimum.
>>108191926>and sold outIf by "sellout" you mean having to work in a big company for the bucks, well, yeah, but that was since day one. He has never denied that.But still, all the code that goes to the kernel has to be written in his style, which is called by Microsoft devs as "Cutler Normal Form". He is still one of the top dogs in the company.
What? No
>>108185938>>108185983I loved that start up sound, it felt like if you put the year 2000 into audio form.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFkry3zzutI
>>108189153operating systems can't appear overnight, a modern os has to do a LOT. support decades worth of features and expectations, have thousands of programs ported to it, have drivers for countless devices/peripherals, etc.there are already several options that aren't linux, but it usually makes more sense to use linux since that has the most support
>>108190020uhhh microsoft owns all the code dumbass
>>108191887> Decompiling (ideally) Windows 95Windows 95 is a complete dead end architecture that is limited to 32bit single core. You would have to be utterly deranged to even attempt trying to modernize 95. Also, in terms of creating a replacement for windows, you would obviously use windows 2003 server, since the source code has leaked, and its still pretty modern, and supports amd64.
>>108182402It's leadership is so out of touch they only respond to backlash when it's overwhelming.Still better than many other monopolies the Yanks love to coddle in that regard. Which is a strong indictment on American economics.
>>108191887>Decompiling (ideally) Windows 95, or less desirably 2000you have absolutely no idea what you're talking aboutnobody who has the first clue about win95/2k would consider for a second trying to modernise 95 over 2k
>>108193648Care to enlightened me?>>108193538Is that what the guys trying to make the Linux clone of Windows are using?
>>108194746> Is that what the guys trying to make the Linux clone of Windows are using?Linux is so fundamentally different to windows that pretty none of the windows source code would be of any use for creating a Windows like linux distro.
>>108194769But all the proprietary APIs could be used to make WINE run perfectly.
>>108194746>Care to enlightened me?win95 is impressive for what it is, but what it is is an expanded version of 32bit extensions for a 16bit operating system. it's entirely single-threaded and would probably require some work to even make it pure 32bit, much less 64bitit's architecture, while /necessary/ for the time (as your typical home computer in 1995 had like 8 megs of ram and a 66mhz single core cpu, home os's needed to be as simple as possible), was already obsolete even in 1995, as windows nt had been out since 1993 as the more advanced, pure 32bit, multi-threaded operating system core, nt4 came out a year after win95 and was technically much better than win95 as long as you didn't rely on old software, it lacked a couple things win95 had, like plug and play, but by the time nt5 (windows 2000) came out, it had reached parity with "classic" windows in terms of functionality
>>108194746>>108194914you'd think win95 is the beginning of "modern windows" due to it's new explorer interface, but it really only looked like modern windows on the surface, in terms of technology, modern windows begins with nt4, which got win95's interface, but with an NT kernel, so it was pure 32bit, portable (it came out for several cpus, not just x86), multi-threaded, multi-user, etc.
>>108194953Windows 7 is really the start of modern Windows since it:>Introduced the superbar >Introduced window previews on the taskbar>Window tiling>Finished implementing Ribbon where it was half baked in Vista>Permanently froze the NT kernel in version 6.x
>>108195089i don't see how some minor enhancements to explorer outweighs the introduction of explorerby the way, that's also the first time you see that style of task manager, the one win7 still usedhere's the previous versions' task manager (still better than win95's task manager if you can believe it)
>>108193506Does he know?
>>108195134Window tiling alone is massive, not to mention grouping taskbar icons, and replacing quick launch with the superbar. These are all essential parts of modern Windows UX which everyday users depend on
>>108195219what's the first windows you've used? because i'm not sure you really understand that i'm talking about explorer being introduced here.like what's more fundamental between "drag to tile two windows" and "being able to put files on the desktop, or the existence of the start menu"?if you've used windows 3.x you should know combining the quick launch like 7 did in the taskbar doesn't trump the introduction of the taskbar itself
Windows 10 ltsc just werx
>>108193506No, they don't. They license a lot of code
>>108198652That's only on Microsoft's software like Office, not Windows itself.
>>108199068>Microsoft did all their graphics code!LOL, sure, buddy
>>108182402I kind of doubt it. Given that 11 is even worse shite one could have hoped at least that they would've had another wakeup call and at least make a minimum effort to deshittify 12, but with the AI craze you fucking know they're going all-in on that trash with 12 so it's going to enshittify at accelerated pace instead.At this point I think Windows market share as a desktop OS has been declining for over a decade. It's going to continue dying a slow death. It's still the majority by far and people are still bound to it to varying degree due to compatibility and hardware support (as in support from companies making hardware) so it's not going to die quickly but it's going down the drain and I don't feel like MS is capable of righting the ship.
>>108199129They do. There is nothing foreign in the OS, it's all done at Microsoft, for better or worse.
>>108199442Wrong.
>>108188457>In reality, people mostly like Windowslol noWindows desktop OS market share has dropped from over 90% to the low 70s in the past 10-15 years. People have hated Windows since the W8 tablet UI debacle and have been slowly migrating elsewhere (mostly to Macs it would seem). Every attempt MS has made to migrate Windows to ARM has been an abject failure because Windows has no value to anyone without the full compatibility and native performance in its giant software library. That's the only thing Windows is still used for.
>>108182402Hyper consumerism This is the market normies actually are demanding even if they don't realize it. A OS that teaches the user nothing about the GUI, heavily tied to online services. Normies don't mind doom scrolling, walled gardenism AI slop everywhere and having facts heavily curated by big tech. Some just prefer a certain master such as the political Right opposing Google's censoring but supporting Grok censors truths about intersectionality research. The same can be said about the political Left supporting the EU which is known to heavily censor. But we know the Right is worse because they are ok with tech being used to promote authoritarianism like Palantir and ICE's spying tech . The way a normie thinks is to get as little sophisticated interaction with a computer as possible and just skip straight to the dopamine flooding or social media communication and AI slop.>>108186000normies love candycrushand the only people who complain about AI in mspaint and notepad are tech savies that make up 1-5% of the market. Most normies don't care.>>108194953In 1996 Windows 95 with IE came pre-filled with stuff about celebrity news, gossip, mainstream normie music, and television. It was always a consumerist OS. The interactive Desktop feature wanted people to always be connected to Disney/Warner Bros website. Real Player came with a bunch of bookmarks to mainstream normie media.People who hold sentimental memories and attraction to computers like me will always view what Microsoft, Apple, X, Spotify and Google do as morally wrong and shady but our version of right and wrong is not the same as theres.
>>108182402>How can they come back from this level of enshittification and self-destruction?1. Fire the jeets.2. Hire White men.3. Go back to Windows 7, the last decent version of Windows, and begin applying security and hardware compatibility patches from there, but avoid making any major alterations.
>>108200461>1. Fire the jeets.lol, they literally put a jeet at the charge of the xbox division today. They are doomed.
>>108194953It's incredible how well spaced GUI elements are in this release. Windows 2000 however did mog.
>>108182402honestly, windows is shit now. there's nothing you can do on windows that you can't do on a bog stock bazzite install desu. and i get way better results with bazzite because of the considerably lower resource overhead. so fuck windows.
>>108201354only downside to 2k is it got the ie-ified explorer. nt4 is the last version of windows with a purely native explorer (came out in 1996, desktop update came out in 1997 so win98 and 2k came with it built in)
>>108182402heh
>>108182402Microsoft now sells compute. Doesn't matter what OS sells their compute. .
>>108194953>>108195089No, it's Gold Windows XP 2016 by Muhammad Sadeem
>>108201451i hated this theme so much
>>108182402They put everything into the AI and cloude basket. They'll live in the end, but by god they're going to take a hit when it all crashes down.That being said most companies are still ran by tech illiterate retards who will still gobble up their services because it's the default and also because they hire IT people who's only qualification is a 'trust me bro'.
>>108201451the giant and completely superfluous image banner on the run dialogue really ties it all togethertruly the peak of UI aesthetics
>>108201451Say what you want, but I miss this level of customization and themes of the XP era. We will never have something like this again.
>>108201451>Chicken Invaders 2Classic
>>108186999Just stick to projects like Artix until they get Debian'd.>Verifcation is not required.
>>108182402the moment it became impossible to use without signing into a microsoft account is when it truly died.
>>108202148I don't like that prospect, that dark future you're implying
Micropoo is a pajeetified company. Why are we even discussing it at this point?
>>108195603>what's the first windows you've used?98, and I'll tell you that 95-Vista had a different UX theory from 7 onwards.
>>108182402Best hope is that ReactOS finally starts gaining traction as a viable replacement, though I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope considering the underwhelming progress it's made after nearly 30 years of development.Time to learn Linux and hope that WINE and Proton don't let you down.
I intentionally stuck to 10 because nothing I heard from 11 was good, and then either my SSD was nearing the end of its life, it being full was slowing shit down, or some fucky update to Windows slowed everything down (or all three), so I got a new SSD and switched to Mint. I miss Paint.net, but otherwise it's very nice so far.
>>108202845they did, but compared to 1.01-3.51 (everything before 95), it's pretty minorit's like, put a random person only familiar with recent windows in front of a winnt4 box and a winnt3.51 box, and give them basic tasks. 3.51 is almost completely foreign compared to 4.0. sure they might miss aerosnap and window previews (i never even use those), but not as much as they'll miss the start menu, the taskbar, and explorer. that's how i'd define "first modern version"; how far back can you go before someone only familiar with the current version can no longer operate it intuitively?maybe if the first version of windows was 95/nt4, then perhaps the next most modern would be 7.
>>108202912Never left Windows 7.
>>108182402Only if the Windows department spins off from Microsoft that's been addicted to cloud computing. But even then chances are some private equity takes over and ruins it even faster.
>>108182402i think their only hope of REDEEMING themselves is KINDLY REVERTING BACK with the public hanging of every indian employee.
>>108182402Not with Nadella at the helm and his sick obsession with AI. That guy went from savant who turned MS into a trillion dollar company with cloud computing to an NFT grifter overnight.
>>108204297never trust jeets or women
>>108182402fucking forced windows 11 update bricked a perfectly good spare computer ryzen5 12gb. I let it install and it basically hangs and freezes on EVERY SINGLE task... click on something...anything... freezes. windows 11 is the gayest piece of streetshitting faggotry every shat. I had ubuntu installed 1within 20 minutes. Fuck microsoft in the face. holy SHIT.
>>108182402Dunno man, I've been using windows since 95 and I stomached a lot of shit but lately it feels like they're going too far. They keep forcing "features" nobody wants with no ability to shut them off. I'm legit thinking of just finding the most gamer-friendly distro of linux and dedicating however much time I need to learning how to set it up. My patience for windows is starting to rapidly exhaust with all the new bullshit.
>>108204357What about jeet women?
>>108205475They make jeet men so no
>>108192426If Nadella and the shareholders want vibe coding, they'll get vibe coding. They will just fire Cutler if he tries to interfere. If the few competent people remaining quit in protest, they can hire more Indian H1-B vibe coders to replace them.AI is what is building Microsoft and its shares prices now, not 30+ year old legacies.
>>108205565They are too big to fail. Incompetence will sadly not kill microcucks anymore.
>>108182402Windows and Microsoft are gonna be alright, they're a category winner and it's over.They won't be allowed to fail.
>>108206327>>108206605It took IBM decades to bleed out after the abomination that was OS/2 Warp and so MSFT will. All it took was a jeet to ruin them as the one OS to rule them all.
>>108206623True, realistically I am monitoring HarmonyOS Next.They might take over Microsoft in China if CCP decides to mandate it.Here thoughbeit, there isn't anything close to the feature set of Windows, and while the latest versions are shaky the foundation is still good and they have responsive support and product teams for businesses. They're far from IBM.
>>108184156Cutler hasn't worked on Windows NT in over 2 decades
>>108206662>They might take over Microsoft in China if CCP decides to mandate it.There is almost no money to make in China, anyway. They have always pirated Windows, even the government departments.
>>108206623IBM still has Power, the Z Mainframes and AIX. They are nowhere as bad other tech companies from that era.
>>108201451genuine fucking kino
>>108206605True. If they don't allow Intel to fail, let alone Microsoft.
>>108201451That actually looks good.
>>108182960AAAAAAAAHhahahahahhahahaaaaaaaaawhat a fucking retard
>>108185938I agree. Migrating from Windows 2000 to XP was the first time I ever had to seethe at a new OS and it has been downhill from there. Up until 7 I was putting up well with it, though. It's Windows 8, 10 and 11 that really made me not want to use it anymore.I don't really think Windows will ever be acceptable for me again. Even if they make it better. I've now used Linux for a year and I can't go back to Windows anymore.
