discuss speakers
The $20 receiver you get at goodwill and some cheap analogue speakers will save you a ton of time and stress.
>>108190184If it were that simple then no one would measure and report waterfall graphs. That model you've given of loudspeaker performance doesn't capture the resonances due to the speaker driver's mass and thus inertia, you can't just filter or EQ away the energy that remains in cones and their cabinets. Thin film diaphragms don't suffer from this and it's audible simply by playing a square wave. Would love for you to prove me wrong but I'm not the first and won't be the last to believe and hear this effect clearly. Look at the waterfall of the R11 Meta here and the ESL57 I'll post in a minute
>>108190319Note the time scale and how all the energy is dissipated before 2 ms while the R11 is still holding onto it after over 4 ms
>>108190227Makes you forget about consumerism for 20 years
>>108190276i like speakers but i can't listen to them as loud as i wished so i what I did was buy some tiny car speakers and gluing them to my ears
>>108190319>you can't just filter or EQ away the energy that remains in cones and their cabinetsYou can >>108189708Long decay in CSD and a peak in the FR have the same root cause and EQing the peak fixes the CSD.
>>108190276This anon gets it. I'll only buy Koss uR-20/29/SB-45.I am currently using a 20 years old pair of Dell A225s.
under $100>save your money; all options are a combination of colored sound, no bass, low SPL$100 - relatively uncolored sound, 85dB max SPL, the lowest priced option with any redeeming quality>edifier mr3$200-300 - 3-4.5" quality desktop speakers>kanto ora>kanto ora4>iloud micro>adam d3v>kali lp-unf$300-500 - 5-6" speakers>jbl lsr305p>adam t5v>kali lp-6 v2$500-1000 - 8" speakers, 3-way speakers>adam t8v>jbl lsr308p>kali lp-8 v2>kali in-5>kali in-8 v2subwoofer>kanto sub6>kanto sub8>rsl speedwoofer 10e>adam t10s>kali ws-6.2take off 10-30% if used/refurbished, also didn't consider passive options at all because IDK
>>108190319If you mean the bass this just looks like bad noise floor. Amir's CSDs have this even on speakers that don't play 100Hz lmao.
>>108190415Hmm interesting that is very impressive and I concede that point. How are you achieving this? REW or other software? I'd like to test this myself when I have the time. Also how much distortion does it add?
>>108190605REW and equalizer APO. You reduce the SPL so the distortion is not affected.
>>108190585Yeah that seemed extreme to me but I guess I shouldn't trust anything he posts anyway I'm going to learn more and keep quiet until then thanks Recommendations on the theory behind this stuff? That book by Floyd Toole perhaps?>>108190627Unless the speakers' SPL is limited for some reason of course
>>108190378These are bad. Here they are compared to the Edifier MR3, which is the same price.
>>108190648lmao
>>108190648>le harman memeIf those meant anything the audiophile industry would've been over by now.
>>108190645The Toole book doesn't go into the math of that. The LTI stuff is from system analysis. I just read online articles. A speaker driver is a mass-spring-damper system, that system is LTI, and LTI systems are fully described by convolution. Mechanical LTI systems have electrical and digital equivalents. From there you can just follow the links for more explanations. Time and frequency domain being linked is very unintuitive, but it follows from causality, systems being unable to look into the future.
>>108190227Get Genelec
my speakers are made in a country that doesn't exist anymore
>>108190767Very good postThanks again
>>108190276Alternatively you can get a chink amp and a laptop power supply.
I have a pair of Audioengine A5+ Bamboo that have served me for well over a decade now. I should probably get a subwoofer to go with them for a 2.1 setup, but they've done a good job as powered speakers connected to my sound card (which is now onboard) without the need of receiver or other fucking around. My father has a set of A2+ for his PC and they're inexpensive and decent, but smaller than the bookshelf-ish A5+ I'm using. Supposedly they've come up with some new options too (HD6 I think is the new top of the line but no idea) and there's a module for BT connection but I've not thought much about it. In the old days, I used to run the legendary set of PC speakers Klipsch Pro Media 5.1 which were some of the 2000s overlords of analog speakers meant for gaming PC use. Good times.
>>108190946why are they so expensive? 8010a are $800 and I can't tell why.
I'm an idiot when it comes to audio.Is it generally possible to EQ a speaker to sound almost like any other speaker in theory, aside from very minor differences, or even if you try to EQ two speakers to sound similarly, are there going to be major noticable differences that will make audio not line up in an obvious way?I'm trying to EQ Edifier MR3's to sound how my Kanto ORAs sound (specifically over bluetooth) but I have no idea what I'm doing and I can't tell if the differences I still hear are unavoidable or it's from me just not doing shit right and not understanding audio enough to do the EQ better (I'm pretty much just tweaking sliders and testing how it sounds without knowing much more then lower frequencies are lower/bassier sounds and higher ones are sharper sounds)>Why are you even trying to do thisBecause the audio latency with the kanto oras over bluetooth bug me, but connecting it via cable leads to it sounding way worse and different, wheras the edifiers even when connected via cable have a better/closer starting point (before EQ) to the Kantos in BT mode then the Kantos themselves do when cabled
>>108190227Are we talking about "multimedia" speakers only or also audio monitors for music production? (multimedia speakers make the sound pleasant to listen, monitors on the contrary bring out any little problem so you can fix it)One of my venerable 22yo+ Tascam VL-X5 is dead so I'll need to buy new monitors. I make symphony, goa trance, eurodance and hardcore. A detail is that I play at relatively low volume.Are there relatively good monitors with a flat sound even at low volume, around $150~$300?
>>108192438to keep it short: no, it's not possible.
>>108192470if it's not IEMs or headphones, it's for this thread.
>>108192470basically >>108190486
>>108190486>no Neumann>no Genelec>no D&D>no AsciiLab>no REVELpoorfag alert!
>>108192521Anyone who both has the money to burn on a $3,000 pair of KH150s and also doesn't know what they are--they probably wouldn't benefit from them at all.
>>108190319>>108190330>>108190585Decay time depends on frequency. ~4 ms is only a single cycle of 250 Hz (f = 1/t), meaning you should ignore everything below that.>http://www.nutshellhifi.com/MLS/MLS2.htmlThat CSD is produced from a gated measurement. CSD is very sensitive to a whole bunch of measurement and processing parameters, so you need to be extremely careful about comparing measurements from different sources (hell, even from the same source).>>108190767>Time and frequency domain being linkedNote that "frequency domain" here does NOT mean the frequency response as conventionally shown. The Fourier transform yields a complex number for every frequency, which you can think of as a pair of real numbers, which frequency response as conventionally shown represents only one of (absolute value). The other one (phase) can be inferred if the system is minimum-phase, and in this case, time domain graphs don't provide any additional information. But a LTI system doesn't have to be minimum-phase, and in that case, a time domain measurement like CSD can yield information about non-minimum phase phenomena, pic related.Also note that IIR EQ can't fix such non-minimum phase phenomena. FIR EQ, however, can.
>>108192438Sounding way worse and different wired points to a bad connection or gain issue. There is no world in a properly wired and gain staged system were Bluetooth audio is better, it is inherently lossy.Trying to EQ different speakers to be the same is like trying to tune a Camry to be an S-Class by putting S-Class tires on the Camry. Yes, technically the Camry now drives closer to how the S-Class does, probably by a noticeable amount, but they are certainly not remotely the same.Do you even have a DSP with which to apply EQ?
>>108192470>multimedia speakers make the sound pleasant to listen, monitors on the contrary bring out any little problem so you can fix itThat's more of a myth. Generally, good speakers are good speakers, and shit speakers are shit speakers, simple as. You don't want your speakers to have some weird quirks, you'll make the wrong decisions and your music might sound off on actually good speakers. If you want to use your music to sound good through good speakers, it's best to use good speakers to create it.Though playback systems can vary, and if you have something specific in mind, it's best to double check on that.>I play at relatively low volume>flat sound even at low volumeVolume affects perceived tonal balance, bass will appear less prominent at lower volume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contourYou're likely to compensate for this by turning up bass, and in turn it will sound exaggerated at higher volume.Also you'll miss some details, because they'll be too quiet to hear.
>>108193072will a 8" speaker and a 3" speaker, if they were at the same SPL, have the same level of detail/clarity, or would one be better?
>>108193113Total crapshoot, driver size alone tells you little. Normally, 8" should be able to play significantly deeper at same SPL, so you'll get that some bass notes that you wouldn't hear with 3". In that sense, 8" would be more detailed. For the rest, you'd have to look at measurements. Could be they differ not so much otherwise, or could be they're totally different.Also you have to look at things holistically, if a speaker makes some particular detail stand out a lot, that's more often than not because it's exaggerating some particular frequency range, or looking at it the other way around, giving you too little of everything else. Of course, it could also be because that particular detail actually stands out in your mix, which is why neutral/balanced speakers are so important, because then you can be confident that it's not due to your speakers.
>>108192386Aluminium enclosureActual QC and electronics that don't shit the bed after one yearActual customer supportMade in Finland
>>108192879>Do you even have a DSP with which to apply EQ?Don't even know what a DSP is, i'm currently using the actual edifier connect app's EQ sliders, though I intend to install equalizer APO at some point>There is no world in a properly wired and gain staged system were Bluetooth audio is better, it is inherently lossy.I'm sure the BT connected Kantos sound "worse" in an objective technical sense, but the way the audio is tuned is more to my tastes then when it is connected via actual RCA cables, for whatever reason that makes it sound totally different and more bassy in a bad way (but I find I dislike low/bass heavy audio hardware, so ymmv). Same thing happens when I use a USB C vs a 3.5mm audio jack to connect the IEMs I have, with one it sounds totally different then the other
For music production, Adam T5V vs JBL 305P MKII vs Yamaha HS 5 vs M-Audio BX5BT vs Mackie CR5 BT vs Presonus Eris E5 ?Are the Adam T5V really the best?
>>108193311out of those, it's just the adam or the jbl. would choose more based on reliability and price. their measurements are pretty similar to each other. the latter 4 are garbage.
>>108193267...and they are very good by technical measurements
i stumbled upon these and it's purely aesthetics win
>>108193422the 8010a is not impressive at all. IIRC it's not any better than a iloud micro which is like 1/4th the price. in fact the micro seems better, more sub-bass, flatter FR.https://www.spinorama.org/compare.html?speaker0=Genelec+8010A&origin0=ASR&version0=asr&measurement=CEA2034&speaker1=IK+Multimedia+iLoud+Micro+Monitor&origin1=Misc&version1=misc-napilopez
>>108193437I meant the Brand not specifically the 8010. [spoiler]who even buys the 8010[/spoiler]Agreed far better things to buy at this size/price point.
>>108190227I bought adams d3v recently. They're really good, but very tight. Like wearing headphones, in a way. Move your head out of the beam - sound quality is shit. Move your head in the sweet spot - it's perfect. Very odd experience.
I just get used speakers when i can
>>10819260099% of speakers are not minimum phase because of the crossover. You can easily undo the effects of the crossover with rephase, but you quickly realize the effect is inaudible. The ear is just not built to detect phase in one channel, only phase difference between two channels.
>>108192438Why waste time making them similar when you can make them better. Flatten the on-axis response by online graphs, remove peaks in the bass with a mic(any mic will do), adjust bass and treble levels by taste with shelf filters.
>>108190486whats the point of a subwoofer smaller than 10 inches?
>>108194158the benefits of a subwoofer are obvious, but a smaller one? mostly more convenient to place. subwoofers can get pretty big. even a small one still frees up your speakers to focus on mids/treble and greatly reduce distortion.
>>108194158subwoofers are not just bigger, they're deeper and have stronger magnets and coil to give them much more power.
>>108190227hard obsoleted by the $20 bnnuy queen
>>108193310Digital Signal ProcessorIf the tonal difference isn't distortion from gain or hardware issues (turn down your analog source to half going into the Kantos, trying to rule out clipping) then you should be able to match the tonality between wired and wireless in the same speaker.Without some sort of measurement setup with OpenSoundMeter, REW, SMAART, etc, you are going to have a bad time trying to EQ, your perception of sound is far more unpredictable than a microphone.
I use laptop speakers. They make my ears fatigue really fast.i tried to use a noise generator with my laptop speakers to figure out if it's because of treblehttps://29a.ch/noise-generator/and when i listen at max volume to white or pink noise, and then switch to brown noise, it's obvious that the latter is much more tolerable. the white and pink noise is very fatiguing and grating but the brown noise is relatively comfortable to listen to.so i'm beginning to think it's because of excess treble. since my stuff is clearly very mid/treble biased. there's basically no bass or even low mids in these speakers.it's safe to assume i need to buy something that's more neutral/has low mids and bass, as it will let me use a lower volume to hear everything and not blast myself with treble, right? or is that wrong?
>>108196855Lower the treble with EQ.
>>108196855EQ is midwit shit.
>>108197081Meant for >>108196975
>>108197085Retard that can't even reply to the right post hates EQ. Figures.
>>108197131Do you actually think the engineers who get paid 6-figures to design these speakers know less than you?
>>108197143Engineers that get paid 6 figures to design speakers say you need EQ. Nobody was paid 6 figures to design this >>108196855 btw.
>>108197161I'm not talking about that garbage. EQ is for retards who think FR is all that there is.
>>108197180Guess people making your music are retards lmao.
>>108196975eq won't salvage that lol
>>108197266It won't. But it will fix his problem.
>>108197143Anon, they're laptop speakers, and it's a cheap small Chromebook to boot. If there was any engineering effort, it was about making them as cheap and small as possible, and sound quality was very far down on the list.
>>108197334It's a mediatek powered chromebook, very slow, but anyway I tried to use EQ with a chrome extension. IDK. it's okay. everything is slightly less grating to listen to. it's just quiet even at 100% volume, no bass, et cetera.
>>108197555important update: it's too quiet so i deleted the extension. it's fucking over...
>>108197451I was talking about actual speakers discussed here, not anons shitty laptop lol.>>108197735>>108197555It's time to upgrade.
>>108195942Fox speakers mog.
>>108190227Genelec 8010 for your peecee. Genelec 8040 + 7040 for your teevee. End of
>>108196855or the music you listen to is trash
>>108199459>spend $800 for speakers that have worse performance than $200 speakers
