for the life of me i cant understand the logic of space computing. say the solar panels are x4 as efficient per m^2 as earth based you're adding x50 times the complexity (space launch, shielding,cooling,communication,space-stationkeeping) for that. coal,methane,oil,terrestrial solar,uranium all make more sense than fucking nvidia gpus in orbit rendering memes for people getting cooked when the next mega solar flare hits.
>>108199703The cooling is the part that perplexes me the most. Radiative cooling is super slow.
>>108199703Stupid investors don’t know this or care
Don't care.Man Must Explore.
You better start reading between the lines a little bit. How has the mood regarding datacenters been faring? Has it been souring in record time?What will happen to them if people start losing their jobs in greater and greater numbers, even a fraction of Scam Fraudman predicts?
>>108199730i think in some cases like earth-imaging having a gpu on-satellite makes sense. i think theyve even already done it recently but not for bulk-computationits also not just radiators there's a reason satellites use special very slow computers the smaller you go in transistors the more you get fucked by radiation. a blackwell chip would need insane shielding to work in orbit.>>108199774explore what? filling sun synchronous orbit with dead weight/potential debris?
>>108199806orbital data centers wont create more data center jobs
>>108199703As with all things, money. Companies have to jump through more and more legal and financial hoops both for building data centers and for building/using AI, but it is less complicated in space and I read recently that it can actually works out cheaper in the long-run too. The only major problem is >>108199730 which is why people like Musk are calling for chips that can operate in high temperatures for example.
>>108199703Well well well it's always Israel
I hope Iran makes those Israelis suffer for what they've done to us white men.
>>108199844cheaper to buy a retired oil rig and run ocean data centers
>>108199825When when unemployment becomes significant, things get pretty volatile. Explosively so. People may start targeting datacenters.Putting clusters in orbit would be retardedly expensive, prevent maintenance and upgrades, make every aspect of is operation much harder. The only thing it can offer is safety from people. But the powers that be seem to place a lot of importance on that.
>>108199933easier to use ground data centers
There can be a huge benefit to cooling which wastes a lot of power by using passive cooling with enough external surface area to enough internal thermal mass, whether that's air, liquid, metal, whatever. But it's definitely retarded. Like if you need to go that far, start investing in molten salt or thorium reactors etc, recapture that heat from datacenters back into power. Most importantly invest into tooling for newer tech 3D stacks, quantum dots, CNTs, bismuth, etc and design your stuff around efficiency per watt. There's a crazy amount just sitting on the table instead of wasting shit loads of power
buidling data centers in the ocean makes more sense
>>108200305Depends on how deep you place them desu. Maintenance? Upgrades? If you're not wasting a tonne of power on cooling then I think it has potential.
>>108199703How about... running the datacenters with lower clock speeds and undervolted to hell and back?As far i know the power consumption grows exponentially
>>108200806so theyre weaker than stuff you can do on the ground? defeats the whole point
>>108200813Ah, i forgot the part where i mean doing that on the earth ones.
>>108199703oh vey jewish space lasers are becoming a reality.
>>108200813>>108200827Well no, you maximise performance per watt, you just need more GPUs/servers etc in that case exacerbating the shortage, but reduce load on the grid by both better performance per watt and need less watts per workload and thereby also using less power on cooling
>>108200829>Accidentally drop a tungsten rod on Gaza stripOopsy whoopsy
>>108200858>>108200829Come on, once we make space colonies, they will just leave us alone in space, it's not like there is some crazy religion that believes that you belong to em or anything at a point they would send ships to try to drag you back to earth's gravity.
>>108200829starlink lasers arent jewish and the ground communication is handled by ku radio the lasers are for inter-starlink only>>108200827you're right that there's a voltage/power to performance curve with diminishing returns to harder you clock it the manufacturer already gives you the gpu running by default at the speed that gives the most calculations-per-watt since its what everyone asks for anyway
>>108199904>cheaper to buy a retired oil rig and run ocean data centers>cheaperfor who? taxpayers can be sold to pay for space data centers because who doesnt want to pay for le cool space infrastructure. can't fleece the goyim as easily with an oil rig
>>108200879>it's not like there is some crazy religion that believes that you belong to em well, they do think we belong to them but thats besides the point.>Come on, once we make space colonies,that the issues, they won't let us. they will make them for themselves. maybe a few of us used as their personal slaves will be allowed to leave the planet but the most of us will be used as cattle for their sacrifices to moloch and turned into fertilizer for their space crops.https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/turning-our-dead-into-fertilizer/
>>108199730It's called heat pumpsRadiators work better the hotter they are.Thankfully they are something that is well understood and can be used to concentrate heat energy.Why this is such an unfathomable idea is weird
>>108200900They hate technology because it is not something they can actually control, just damage control.You're not supposed to have a personal computer,you're supposed to have a terminal that you dial to their servers, that was the plan IBM was creating for computing.But then some dudes invented video games, and shit got haywire.This is why every "remote computing" attempt tries video games first, vydia make their moloch super server scheme impossible.And i bet the same will happen to AI shit.
>>108199703>>108199825>orbital data centers wont create more data center jobsSOMAdigital hell reality (maybe we are already in one)
>>108201174i loved the game but the premise is retarded
>>108200994Because a single B200 takes up to 1000W of power. The entire ISS uses like 80 of those. They need thousands upon thousands of those gpus to make it worth their while.
>>108201177is it? we live in clownworld, anything is possible
>>108199774They put Mars on hold to fund this shit
>>108201382To me it's incredible how Israel was almost able to pull it all off.If only they kept pretending to be nice for a little longer instead of going full bloodthirsty pedovores.I wonder if it's because orangeman is retarded.
>>108201828I'm sorry rabbi, you picked up a war with the whole world when you still hadn't everything ready.You are going to get raped back into the stone age and then obliterated out of existence for your cockiness.
>>108201706It's unfortunate but I see Elon's thinking. They were always going to need something else after Starlink to fund the long-term Mars goal. If the orbital data center meme is successful then we will see Mars landings in our lifetime. Reminder:>private launch providers will never be profitable!>booster landings will never be possible!>booster reuse will never be profitable!>falcon 9 will never launch more than once a month!>space internet will never be profitable!>tower catch will never be possible!>You are here<>second stage reuse will never be possible!>orbital data centers will never be possible!>moon bases will never be possible!>humans will never land on mars!
>>108200305the point of building in space is for the high density solar energy which capitalist america lacks.
>>108199703Can I get a quick rundown on the cloud in the clouds?What is the exact point for compute in space other than the fact we haven't entered the era of Space Terrorism, like clearly cloud compute in clouds can't targetted by smaller targets.Are we just polluting the space to lock ourselves out of space travel in the distant future?I get putting probes or GPS satelites, there's not really much of a need to put the newest tech out(like GPS just literally sends over semi-accurate time back to earth and the difference of radio signals is a triangulated position).As for cloud I don't get it, the tech moves forward all the time and gets decomissioned in 5 years it will probably be obsolete?Is it to have Cloud Compute among satelites are we just having rentable Cloud Compute for satelites/space agencies/military/private sector?Like is it so we have low latency compute in space?
>>108202928This looked less like reddit spacing as I was writting into the thin reply box.
>>108199703A single v3 starlink satellite is 8m tall anonThat's a lot of racks Cooling isn't hard at all and only a literal retard would bring that up, it's just heavy which in space adds up quick
>>108199703Not to mention you're also more likely to see errors due to ionizing radiation due to no atmosphere to shield the data center. It seems like a meme.
>>108202850The us has millions of miles of desert solar is being opposed for ideological reasons and fossil fuel lobbies.Elon himself was a huge solar advocate before he chudded out remember solar shingle?
>>108199703bc it isnt logic at all, its deeply retarded>>108203416cooling is fucking hard for anything high power, you dont know what you are talking about
>>108200305China dunked on the us so hard the us broke its neck
>>108199703it's just some bullshit tech CEOs dangle in front of investors to pump the stock price.notice musk always makes new promises and keeps almost none. nobody cares. people want to be sold a dream.
>>108203773thanks for outing yourself retard
>>108203930nigga i worked on thermomechanical simulations of satelite parts, cooling is a mess when you passs a certain power density that a server in space will be severeal times that density
>>108199904Modifying one isn't going to avoid all the delays needed to get that approved, and it still needs power.
>>108203959Holy shit we got us a retarded sounding rocket scientist.
>>108199703It's because governments are not willing enough to expand the electricity infrastructure because they don't know if this is a bust. And they actually just can't. Western Europe and the US have been using less electricity. The savings from LCD TVs, LEDs, more efficient electronics and motors etc... has basically meant that since 2010 the US flatlined in electricity usage. If it wasn't for the AI boom the US would be producing less energy today than it did in 2007. The US de industrialized, the US adopted more and more advanced power efficent electronics. So what does the goverment gain from a massive investments in electricity generation and grid stability? It would be a manhatan style giga project that would cost Trillions. And for what? If the AI boom goes away what then? There no industry to absorb the extra electricity generation, there is no population to absorb it too.Meanwhile China hasn't even middle classed 50% of it's people. There an estimated 400 mil to 500 mil middle class Chinese, Theres another 400 million that need to be middle classed. If the AI boom fails Chinese electricity can be sold to a new middle class and industry.And this is why the Western companies are trying to go to space. AI shit needs to operate 24/7 non stop. The only way to scale electricity prodution in the west fast is Coal, Gas, Wind or Solar.Coal and Gas have tremendous political opposition, Wind and Solar don't give load stable output withotut batteries, batteries can't be made fast enough.So their answer. Space.
>>108203996Middle class is just a house snd a wife with the picket fence and what now are entirely made chink consumer products. If we go by that definition like all of chins is middle class or more.
>>108199703Kosher driven Space Computing
>>108204009We're not going by your made up definition we're going by scientific one.
>>108204023Is not my made up definition its what was shilled as le american dream.
>>108204031Your American dream doesn't exist not in America not elsewhere in the world. It's also an incredibly retarded one because every fucking villager in the world is middle class since he owns a house and a wife. I own 2 village houses I'm trying to sell here in Croatia since both of my grandparents died. I can't even get 30k€ for them because they're in dead villages with no people. Meanwhile a house in the city costs 300~500k€
>>108204040Yeah well try no house and your hand. Made me bring up that 95% or more of chinese own actual property not a nintendo switch.
>>108199703In an appropriate orbit you have sun all the time. No seasons, no batteries needed, no thick glass to deal with hail. Power in orbit is nearly free, weighs very very little.>>108199730The electrical power from a PV is in the same neighbourhood as the radiative cooling possible on the back of the PV. They don't combine it like that currently because when you aren't dealing with 100s of MW, it's not worth the bother. Here it will be.Front PV, back radiator. Refrigerant cooling loop to cool the PV and GPUs (with or without heatpump, but always refrigerant, phase change is essential).
>>108202384it just doesnt make sensei do see how it makes sense on the moon or on mars to have orbital data centers to serve any ground base there but on earth it's retarded. literally the one advantage of earth's surface over the rest of the solar system is moderate sunlight while being radiation protected and having a lot of thermal mass to dump heat into giving that up benefits us how exactly?
>>108203996the only thing that sort of makes sense is using it as an escape from NIMBYism and regulation but even there its easier to do in the ocean. a floating compute-city in the ocean with plenty of water for cooling, direct links to internet fiber-arteries and water to cool nuclear reactors is far more logical
>>108204151Yeah people are just going to allow you to have floating nuclear reactors. You can't build a single one in the US withou the karens and NIMBYs going ballistic.
>>108204050Except not a single Chinese can legally own anything and it's all 99 year leases. That the government can decide not to renew. Or oyu know just take the lease and pay you some pitty on it because they need a new highway where you house is.
>>108204163build it somewhere else problem solvedhell build it on-site, saves you millions in gay ass regulations and inspections.
>>108204172And how long are you planning to live for anyways?They probably have more than one “99 year lease” btw
>>108202384do you know that those are strawman arguments by the fans?>private launch providers will never be profitable!pegasusxl was this way before spacex>booster landings will never be possible!proven in 94 by the dcx, spacex uses their tech. we could argue the moon landings too>booster reuse will never be profitable!is it if you do not count starlink launches? the actual critics it was that the commercial launch market was not that big, while elon said that it was going to explode and guess that critics were right>falcon 9 will never launch more than once a month!no one seriously said this, the critique is that a fast turnaround was a nonsense>space internet will never be profitable!it was already profitable before, in ways that didnt include thrashing leo destroying 60 years of unformal rules>tower catch will never be possible!who actually doubt this? its easier than regular precision landing, who even cares?>second stage reuse will never be possible!literally the shuttle and buran are this. and guess what? starship is a shuttle toothose are strawman claims made by random retards taken out of context by the spacex fans, when no completely made up, as if were a position made from actual critics of spacexelon is a retard, he is there bc he donated big bucks to the marssociety and them and specially griffin handholded him an encounter with tom mueller, the actual founder and brains of the project behind spacex, and then when griffin got the nasa chair pushed elon project among some other better ones. elon even named on of his son after him
>>108204151They won't escape regulation in the ocean, and there's still the short term problem of not enough power.
>>1081997033rd temple when?
>>108204365you will there's no states in the oceanfor power buy it. kites/windfarms/ocean current harvesting for diversity and uranium power plants for the bulk of the power
>>108204403A company is still based in a country that can require environmental checks first.Part of the problem some are having is not enough power is available to buy right now where they want it. If they start manufacturing satellites as an alternative they can scale it up easier without waiting more years. Whether the cost makes sense is another question.
Nobody has answered why exactly there has to be a data center in either space or the ocean… im assuming they dont want them to be destroyed by rioters… to the point they want them built in outer fucking space even…
>>108204649you can do that with terrestrial centers just dont do the rioters
>>108199933Simpler explanation is they're building out a new surveillance network to use against people on the ground, or it's just all fraud.
>>108204009>>108204023These are both retarded definitions. Middle class is someone who can afford to blow up a brick & mortar business without compromising their living standards. The exact income level varies a lot depending on location. Western governments always conflate middle class with working class because they don't want to admit the middle class is basically non-existent.
>>108204847>Middle class is someone who can afford to blow up a brick & mortar business without compromising their living standardsThis is insanely slanted compared to even the most glorified depictions of US middle class life.Middle class has always been mostly about affording the basics of modern living.IDK when it got switched over to being able to afford the highest end of everything presented to them.
>>108204943>IDK when it got switched over to being able to afford the highest end of everything presented to themThe 17th century. You're regurgitating propaganda.
>>108205101How is it propganda?Do you honestly think the middle class is about buying the most expensive appliances, jewelry, cars, etc?
>data centers>implying they won't be missile platforms in space so they can nuke whoever attacks Israel, verbally or otherwise
>>108205142Oh no yeah it was the house with the picket fence, the wife and the car ofc. How can you be middle class without a car?
>>108204943When 80% of car sales became huge SUVs/pickup trucks.
>>108199703>more crazy shit to pump up the stock
>>108199987easier against ground-based adversaries? what about air-based adversaries? what about naval adversaries?
>>108205261Most middle class peeps didn't by the most expensive car on the lot
>>108205142Not necessarily do, but they can afford to. You need a 7 figure net worth to be middle class in the US.
>>108203959yes to fucking repeat myselfthanks for outing yourself retardhow many times can I say it before your ass will either understand it?
>>108204253I you know American boomers are retarded but I live in house made in 1917 twice renovated. 4 generations. And I want my kids to inherit it.
>>108199703The explanation is that for the infinitely exponential type of venture capitalism to work, people must always invest in a thing far away over the horizon.Things that exist are either underwhelming, or are amazing for like 2 months after which they're accepted facts of life.Building shit in space is sufficiently outlandish that it'll take many years to realize until it becomes clear that its not going to be the panacea people thought it was, after which we can move on to the next thing to chase. Its important to not it's not even a requirement to reach the stated goal, if disillusionment sets in, its time to move on.Take for example crypto - Bitcoin has managed to secure all the things that it claimed were holding it back from greatness - and caved the fuck in as result, as it became clear, nothing meaningfully changed, and there were no goals to clear.
>>108199703It's probably being used for something they're not being honest about, given that it involves Israel.
>>108199703retarded techbros still think space is "cold" because "space is hot" is a LE DEBOONK'D meme (the reality is that space is "cold" but things that get hot stay hot) and investing in space operations is something with a slow but high theoretical ROI which means an eternity of bag-passing you can explain away easier than you could with crypto
>>108200702>upgradesdrop the new gpu cargo in the lake and it will sink to down there
>>108204397be here now
