>panels are infinitely recyclable>batteries are infinitely recyclable>buy it once and you get free energy foreverWhy haven't YOU taken the solar-pill yet?
>>108245412Forever? The shits degrade 1% output a year.
can they really be recycled tho, do they just crush the semiconductors or something? it feels like they would end up at a landfill as it would be cheaper to just produce new ones
>>108245412They look like shit, I'd rather come up with a whole new form of energy than put these things anywhere near my home
>>108245412i haveThey didn't produce anything in the past two months.Luckily today i got a bit.Nobody tells you just how dead winter is, even if you clean the panels from snow. They all lie to you.
>>108245412heh
>>108245412but I live off-grid on solar.>>108245528winter sucks. I have a generator for winter when it's 4 months of little sun.
>>108245489>he doesn't ground mount away from the houseseethe landlet
>>108245412Waiting for batteries to be as cheap as panelsie this year or next year
>>108245412>produces decent electricity at most 6 hours out of the day>have to mount 4x the panels and store 24hrs of battery to live the energy equivalent of paycheck to paycheck>chad pine tree grows a couple feet and reduces your yield by half due to shadevs>throw water wheel on a washing machine motor>chuck in your backyard creek>1kw of power 24/7>God rewards your efforts with rain and free extra power
>>1082460131kW what kinda himmalaya mountainstream are you harvesting
>>108246125Sloped land is cheaper but also better for generating electricity. If you have a stream running down the slope you build a 2m tubed waterfall and put the motor at the bottom.Over 500w is easy. 1kw might be pushing it, two motors can get 1.5kw
>>108246206you’re brain is sloped
>>108245412Huh? No solar panel has ever been recycled
>>108246264Intentionally. One day I hope to use it for generating hydroelectric power.
is the conversion efficiency still hard-locked to ~30%?
>>108245431That's optimistic.>>108245447It's bullshit.
>>108246375Yeah, but panels are stupendously cheap nowadays, to the point the mounting brackets are more expensivethe only downside is the space they takestorage is solved with lifepo4, too. you can get 100 kwh of decent chinesium like ruixu for like $10k, and they’re qualified for us insurance. 10kW inverters are sub $2k. if you have an electric car you’ll recoup the cost in like 4 years
>>108245447>can they really be recycled thoIn theory, yes. In practice, no. The amount of effort required to fully recycle a solar panel makes recycling them inefficient. The consumer has no reason to bother with that route because buying a new panel is always the cheaper and easier option. Even on an industrial scale, the recycling process costs more than the value of the raw materials recovered.
>>108245412I live in a third world country where my roof has holes and probably won't support solar panels
>>108247485see>>108245678
>>108245412beauracracy killed solar.In my state all new builds come with solar panels installed in the roof and you have no choice as to what kind, brand, etc and basically are forced to lease them from a company for X amount of years which tacks on fees for servicing them and such. So basically you get an extra "solar" bill onto your monthly bills that you cant opt out of in any way. This is state mandated and unless you already own an older home or buy a really shitty older home there isnt really any way out of it.If you own a home in a state without beuracracy issues like this then yeah go for it.
>>108247537what shithole do you live in? why do you elect women to make decisions like this?
>>108246013>creek swells up randomly given today's unpredictable weather and floods your entire property>God rewards your efforts with a bag on a stick to carry what's left of your belongings
>>108247537simple. when guys come to "service" your sonar panel, you snipe them with a hunting rifle. they were trespassing on your property. simple as. you go to prison, you're a Chad. You win.
>>108246013Just go and live in the desert
>>108245412A gravity battery for every home
>>108245431So after 50 years, way past ROI, you still keep getting free energy? Just around 50% less? Sign me up.>>108245447There is nothing wrong with well-managed landfills. The material will stay there until we start running out of new ones and it would be cheaper to dig out the panels and recycle them.
>>108245412did the math on it recently. fitting my house with solar would take like 11-13 years to break even, and that's without financing or batteries. unless im missing something here the juice don't really seem worth the squeeze
>>108246013>build little dam> install 60 PVC siphon pipes with impellers in them in parallelit's free real estate
>>108248554This shit works like ass. I thought of this and looked into it thinking I was a genius. Then I found out I was retarded.
>>108247537How did bureaucracy ruin solar panels? Just buy them online bro.
>>108248554>gravity batterykek&debunked
Installation cost in the US is stupidly high to the point that it's just not worth it to invest cash up front. $1,700 annual electric bill$20,000 for an underpowered solar installationInvestment beats inflation by 4%That's 17 years to break even without even factoring in service fees to still be hooked up to the grid for rainy weeks etc
>>108245412all these panels power my TESLA EV truck so i give NO EXTRA EXPENDED ENERGY back to the city>i am so fucking based
>>108249525gravity batteries work fine if you just use water
>>108245412EROEI
>>108249477This guy gets it.I did the same math and it'd take me 20 years to break even which is about the life span of the solar panels meaning I'd never get ahead.Thats not even considering the issues with winter in Michigan.It's still appealing if you hate being tied to the grid, especially in a theoretical emergency.Also nice not needing to whip out a generator during outages.In theory.
>>108245546>4 months of little sunlucky guy, here it's 6 months of no sun at all
>>108245412I've got too many trees around my roof. Doesn't get enough sun.
>>108245412Live too far north to be worthwhile, especially in winter when I would need it most for heating.
>>108249477>fitting my house with solar would take like 11-13 years to break evenSo 20+ years of pure profit afterward?What's the problem again?
>>108245412Bought x2 400w panels and inverterToo scared to work on my roof. And cannot find any nigger willing to do it eitherAt times I wish I lived in america with their wooden roofs and mexicans roaming around willing to do anything
>>108248554Me too I love Timberborn
>>108249477>>108250840Let me know when you break even paying for gas or coal or whatever
>>108249199are those wind turbine blades?pretty sure those are mostly glass fiber, you can slice them up at length and add it to concrete as reinforcement, way stronger than rebar.
>>108249477I spent 1300euro on a 3200~ kWp setup, no labor cost. My grid supports reinjection and there's plan where they buy it back at 0.1c per kwh. Rough napkin math and I'll mostly reinject 50% from march to september, save about 700 euros a year total and get paid about 250 from reinjection.Meanwhile a colleague got a quote for a 6k setup and the company wanted 15 000 euros.Can't really justify batteries though.
>>108251713>0.1c per kwh.meant 10c per duh
>>108250724you car looks like a fema trailer
>>108251713>reinjectiondon't trust this shit, invest in batteries right now, fags in california are complaining that as soon as their bills started to go down the power company lowered the tariff for reinjection down to nothing, still better than australia cunts that have to pay for the privilege to sell back the energy they make.
>>108252697Oh I know they're gonna reduce the rate eventually but right now they have a 2 years guarantee to buy your electricity at that price so for my personal usecase it would be worth it to pay back my panels and my inverter purchase. Unfortunately electricity is kinda cheap right now at 20c~ so unless our gov decides to sell all our electricity to germany (again) then I've got no point overspending on solar.
>>108252742I would tell you to mine some cryptoshit with the excess energy but that is crashing and the price of good hardware is through the roof so no dice.
>>108251687They are trying to implement stuff like that with them, but for now the cheapest way is to just bury them.
>>108246297I think you are a little bit retarded. I think you should so some math before you start something like this. You need a lot more head and/or an insane flow rate to even generate 500W.
>>108245412Anyone investing in solar now is retarded when poly-crystaline panels exist.
>>108245412>batteries are infinitely recyclableAre they? Is anyone recycling lithium batteries? Who can I sell my dead batteries to?
>>108245412>WhyI got two panels already. Also:https://rentry.co/solarshit
>>108245447>can they really be recycled thoDefine recycled.>do they just crush the semiconductors or something?Smash it into a powder and feed into glass mix. Prolly could dunk it in various toxic goop to seperate some things first...>be cheaper to just produce new onesPretty much.>>108245528>Nobody tells you just how dead winter isI wager where you is matters much.Deploy more solar, that's the cheap part. Also consider a wind turbine or two. Absent sun and wind usually rare. Even if it's only a 400W turbine that most of the time dishin' out 60-130W... that constant trickle can do something...>>108245972Lookin' good on that donut labs fing so far. Should have another .pdf of data soonish. Definitely storing power, curious as to how much it loses over time. But much of it's powerties suit this application.>>108246013>>chuck in your backyard creekI'll put my money on that feature is less common that not.Where as most people at least have a roof to put the panels on.>>108253626>Is anyone recycling lithium batteries?There's claims. ½ the time they're just stickin' a new sleeve on it and selling it again.
>>108245412I have a fuckoff-sized tree in my yard that's protected by law that ensures my roof never sees sunlight.
>>108247415This is complete nonsense.
>>108245412You don't have free energy for forever. Recycling costs money and you would have to pay for new stuff periodicly even if recycled. It is financially worth to have solar though, if it can be afforded.
>>108254915>protected by lawIn what measure?Can you solar panel the tree?
>>108254981>In what measure?Bankruptcy-inducing fines and possible jailtime, and depending on the time of year I can also get charged with disturbing nesting birds.
>>108250875>Live too far north to be worthwhileThey are very popular so apparently worthwhile in Norway.
>>108245412They're recyclable but in practice its really fucking hard to recycle
>>108254915I'd rather have a beautiful tree than a slightly lower energy bill.
Was the Technology Connections guy's crashout justified?
>>108255063>worthwhile in NorwayMaybe with subsidies but certainly not energy wise. We have politicians in Scandinavia that brag about installing them north of the arctic circle. Do you think they will actually help the grid and get their energy cost back when they are in a place where there's not enough sun to melt the snow off of the panels for 4-5 months of the year and literally no sun at all for 1 month every year?
>>108245412Anything is recyclable with enough energy input, but to call either solar panels or lithium batteries recyclable is disengeneous to the max.
>>108255102Bat crazy politicians have already sent the electricity price into levels never before seen and more is expected. You can save a lot of money also north of the polar circle.
>>108255102Norway has plenty of hydro power too, so they don't have to do it for environmental reasons.It's counter-intuitive but apparently they get so much sunlight in the summer months that it's worth it.As for the arctic circle not many people go there in winter.But people do go there in summer for holidays when the sun hardly sets if at all.And it's remote so it makes sense to generate electricity locally.
>>108255097Personally i'd say it's a mix of yes and no. While he's right that you buy solar panels and batteries and you've got a more-or-less closed loop system, unlike fossil fuels which is open-ended, that's really not a useful way of looking at things because liquid fuel has a much higher power-to-weight ratio than batteries could, and we could always do both at the same time (we are) to accelerate human accomplishment as fast as possible. Also the foxes/wolves eat the eagles before you get to them. Also modern solar panel tech is woefully inefficient compared to >>108253602 so going all-in on monocrystaline now seems like a bad idea.
>>108250889Prices dropping fast so it's more advantageous to wait a year
>>108255288>Norway has plenty of hydro powerHad, sure. The socialists sold a lot of the hydro power to Germany on long contracts at suspiciously low prices, far less tan what we have to pay now.
>>108255024>can't cut down a tree on your own land
>>108255473>accelerate human accomplishment as fast as possibleMeaning what, specifically?
>>108247537Solar panels are so good they force you have them on your homes!
>>108255970>He comes from a shithole country that doesn't protect nature
>>108256020most innovations have to be forced unto people unfortunately its true, it is a myth that people just flock to change their ways and upgrade to innovative new things when they come out without being, it generally needs to be mandated, or they have to not be given a choice anymore.look at the government for what happens when there's no one higher to force innovations upon them? Still using legacy systems from 6 decades ago and just paying out the ass to maintain it while it dangles precariously
>>108256230The big problem is that the innovation needs to show a benefit right away. I don't care about ten or fifteen years from now, I care about right now, because I might end up moving house ten or fifteen years from now.
>>108256250well too bad, get dabbed on low time preference 80 IQ nigger the state has to make correct choices for you
>>108256205>state-controlled utility companies dumping gallons of toxic waste into lakes and riversi sleep>man cutting down tree on his own landOI YOU GOT A LOICENSE TO CUT THAT TREE
>>108256269>lowi mean high
>>108256205>protecting nature>not camping near your home to spy and wait for you to make a mistake so they can profit from you with hefty fines and virtue signaling they've stopped an evil nature destroyer
>>108255984Why, vaguely utopian pop culture scifi, of course. Computer, make me lunch! <lunch appears from a foot slot or by teleporter> All that hydraulic fracking was worth it after all.
>>108256314Post today's paper.In English.
>>108253626no, recycling batteries is scam<div><span style="color:#00ffff;font-weight:bold;font-size:24px;">L</span></div>
>>108256349these are the people "protecting nature" btw, i wonder if they care about nature as much as they care about the children
>>108256493Who?
>>108256314>not camping near your home to spy and wait for you to make a mistakeAnon.... If you can handle this higly refined ragebait looking piece of British news:https://onionsnews.org/article.pl?sid=26/02/26/0429221Reading this makes you understand how the government is perfectly fine with counless girls being brutalised.>>108256493Now that we know how much they really care about working class children...>>108256506Oxbridge graduates, the ruling class in the UK, standing tall above the law.
>>108250889>>108251595you also have to factor in things like>if you're going to live in that house long enough for the panels to pay themselves off>the (likely higher) monthly cost of panels during the break-even period vs. what your electric bill would have been >any ongoing maintenance costs (inverter replacement, extra cost of removing solar panels during a roof replacement which alone can wipe out years of return, etc.)and in my math, 11-13 years was an optimistic estimation. with financing/a slightly worse quote, it would probably be more like 15-20 years. AND i live in one of the sunniest parts of the country (although this also means my electric bills are higher than average since i have to run the AC all the time to not want to kill myself). it's a shame. panels themselves are cheap as shit but everything else involved kinda rapes the math, especially with the elimination of the tax credit (and the EV credits, too). if you're just chasing returns, you're better off putting the money into the stock market
just build the damn spicy rock towers
>>108256896No. Nuclear is dead in the west, and that's a good thing.
>>108251595>using solar panels for heating a house Can't tell if trolling or just retarded.
>>108258925Nuclear is only good for frozen wastes that get next to no sunlight for months on end.
>>108253602>poly-crystaline panelsWhat's the deal with them? Aren't they commonplace and slightly shitty?
>>108251713> Can't really justify batteries though.???You can buy acceptable quality chinesium for like $3.2k/32 kWh16 kWh which is enough if you don’t have an electric car is less than $2k for the 'assemble it yourself' versions - they aren’t shittier quality but it makes shipping much cheaper, hence lower pricesi think prices went down like 30% compared to a year ago
>>108260727If you have a large property and enjoy DIY shit, why not? Couple 10s of kWp of vertical bifacial panel fence, lots of battery, passivhaus or equivalent.
>>108253626>Is anyone recycling lithium batteries?No, but authorities don't like to speak about this.
>>108260766>why not?Because a large property needs lots of heat and there's barely any sunlight in winter.
>>108260779>a large property needs lots of heatA large poorly insulated property or properties with huge muh glass walls do.A properly designed passivhaus doesn't.
>>108260805So it's trolling.
>>108253626The biggest problem for recycling lithium batteries will be companies trying to get rid of lithium shit and collapsing demand.
>>108260824No, most people simply have no frame of reference between the heating requirements of a shitty year naturally ventilated property and something truly modern.It's a literal order of magnitude difference in heating load.
>>108260841Lithium is still the best psycho drug, there will always be demand.
>>108254737>Deploy more solar, that's the cheap part. Also consider a wind turbine or two.Do you have any idea how loud those shits are? Your little PC fan has 12W, now image a wind turbine with 500W.>just do something i would never do and have no idea aboutThe only realistic way to be offgrid in winter is a diesel aggregate.You could kinda survive with solar if you clear them from snow every few hours and you hope that you never have a week of complete downtime. You can squeeze those few W out of it to drive your central heating and not freeze. But thats about it. You may survive, but you cant do anything more than that.
>>108245412>Why haven't YOU taken the solar-pill yet?1. I live above the arctic circle in northern Europe. 2. Basically zero sunlight and no daylight for more than half the year thanks to polar nights and shit. 3. My house is located in a valley and doesn't get any direct sunlight even in the summer when we have 24/7 daylight except for a couple hours at night. 4. Summer is always rainy and cloudy.
>>108260851tell this to all those people who built le epic passive house, just to then get wrecked by the electricity requirements, because it needs ventilation with heat exchangers running constantly and the only way to get heat into the building is through electric heaters (because its PASSIVE, it is supposed to have no heating whatsoever, and it needs electricity (with heating, ironically), to achieve this).
>>108260841You're kinda retarded.Na+ currently has pretty bad home energy characteristics.1st and a big one, the voltage range of the cell is MASSIVE. it completely doesn't work at all with any inverter on the market today, we're talking a 48v nominal pack would end discharge at 0% at fucking 15v. Absolutely unreasonable2. They emit Way more heat when charging or discharging and you might end up needing cooling on a smaller array or if you live in anywhere viable for solar because in summer it will be giga hot3. The round trip efficiency is like 80% approaching flooded lead acid tier.LFP is not going anywhere for the next 10 years minimum. Na+ currently is only viable in grid scale energy storage where they can work around the difficulties.
>>108260851>buy normal house for £100k>heat normal housevs>buy big plot, not surrounded by trees or other houses>demolish existing house>find some esoteric builders who know the magic incantations for an extremely energy efficient house>find esoteric building materials>install a shitload of solar stuff and batteries >everything at great cost>live somewhere for a year or two while it all comes together>you have now spent £1 million>savings projection: £1000 per year, best case
>>108260872> You could kinda survive with solar if you clear them from snow every few hours and you hope that you never have a week of complete downtimeYou couldn’t. Anywhere there’s regular snow, like central yurop, you’d need like 8x the panels you’d want outside winter. A big setup in southern spain takes ~100m2, an equivalent setup in berlin would be over 500. It’s doable, but gets into silly territory quickly.Wind is great but the bigger you go the better the efficiency, it’s not a good option for offgrid setup.
>>108260914You don't even grasp the whole retardation of that city slicker anon, who thinks he is a pro at energy efficiency and modern housing.A passive house, like he suggested, is a weld shut box.You can't even open a window. All the air exchange goes through a central ventilation system, so that hot air that goes out can partially heat the air that comes in with electricity consuming heat exchangers.They were shilled hard 20 years ago. Some gullible retards fell for it. They had horrid experiences and they died out, as word-of-mouth spread.
>>108258925That December column looks super suspicious. It is as if they started with realistic fgures for Januare - November, then tallied it up and compared to what they wanted at end of year and piled it all into December.
>>108260727You can use the electricity from solar panels to power a heat pump to gain even more heating.
>>108260959There are entire nations with passivhaus equivalent building norms.You can open a window, it just gets cold if you don't replace the lost heat. Same as with any house.
>>108260884>wrecked by the electricity requirements, because it needs ventilation with heat exchangers running constantlyNot what I hear. So do you have a source for that? I have two ventilation heat exchangers, installed because of radon problems, and the heat loss is not visible on my heating bill.
>>108260932>you’d need like 8x the panels you’d wantWhy would you want less panels than you need? Vertical bifacials as a fence are dual purpose.
>>108261050No, you can't. Days are short in winter and the night is when it's coldest.Solar energy for heating is the most retarded thing imaginable.I'm surprised you didn't suggest climbing on the roof to warm the body before going to bed.
>>108260909>LFP is not going anywhere for the next 10 years minimumDonut labs?Assumin' they're fulla shit, Toyota reckon they'll be having solid state lithium in cars by 2028. To assume they let that out of their pocket, that can displace LFP.Then ofc, there's a dozen places in china working on similar...>because it needs ventilation with heat exchangers running constantlyDecent ground source heat pump should output 50°C mark and score upwards of 12:1 on efficencies...Even a massive area will heat up reasonably quick when the existing air is being swapped for 50°C. You'll not like much of 50°C. *IF* this house is actually insulated, where is that heat gonna go?That heat pump aint gonna need to run constant.>>108260959>They had horrid experiences and they died out, as word-of-mouth spread.How much of that is the concept is a failure, and how much of that is the implimentation is a failure?
>>108261067a few years ago, the government requirements for passive houses in Europoor countries were mandating windows that can not be opened
>>108260959I'm just curious why people seem to swap day with night and winter with summer in their minds when talking about solar stuff.>you'll use the solar energy to charge your vehicle!No, because the vehicle is not at home when the sun is shining.>you can take long showers!No, because my body is not at home when the sun is shining.>you can heat your house for free!No, because I need heating at night and in cloudy days when the output from solar panels is almost nil.>you can sell surplus energy to recover costs!No, because nobody needs the energy when my panels produce it.
>>108261122>How much of that is the concept is a failureThe concept is illogical in the first place, because you need to heat water somehow.The whole idiotic concept of those houses was the idea to not have any heating unit in the first place, because it's PASSIVE.It was a complete failure and they lifted requirements and changed definiton. So what is a passive house nowadays, would not have been defined as one a decade ago. The term means nothing and is empty now.
>>108261096>Solar energy for heating is the most retarded thing imaginable.If you're resistive heating, sure.But seriously. You can get a ground source heat pump that will eat 1KW at the wall and deliver 15+KW of heat... you *can* heat a house with that. Yeah. Winter. Reuced input. Ideally you would account for this. Optimally, compliment with a turbine or two.
>>108261129>No, because the vehicle is not at home when the sun is shining.Most don't actually do this, I'll accept, but this is where the batteries come in anon.Aint no point playing if you aint using batteries.>No, becauseBatteries>No, becauseBatteries>No, because nobody needs the energy when my panels produce it.Guess what?Batteries.Then you can dump in at your choosing. Tho, desu, you don't wanna waste your bother with gettin' a fraction of the base rate. But if you have batteries *anyway* it's not a good idea to keep them full of energy, all the time. If you pick a 'good' time to discharge them to maintain cell health, you effectively get paid for cycling the batteries...
>>108261096Here's some Buddhist retreat doing it in Canada with a lot of DIY.https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/an-off-grid-solar-communityObviously it's not for everyone, but for off gridders who want to put in the hours it can work. Moar insulation, moar panels, moar battery, more DIY ... as long as you discount your own labour, it's cheap.
>>108261084Bifacials are like 14% more efficient than normal panels. You’d be much better off just slapping down an extra panel for every 8 you already have. As for the amount of panels: 100m2 is doable for any suburban house, or even within a house built in the city proper. Even commie blocks in eastern yurop could get most of the way there if roofs were covered by panels. Raise that to 500-800m2 per person? That’s a much bigger ask unless you have a fair amount of land and a lot of money to throw at it.Solar panels are popular cause shit’s cheap. Raise prices by over 500% and people would rather pay to get connected to the grid.
>>108261212>Bifacials are like 14% more efficient than normal panels.The market in my country is insane at the moment. The extra cost for bifacials is less than a fence post.
>>108261096>Days are short in winter and the night is when it's coldest.I already knew that when I posted >>108261050t.Norwegian
>>108261146Why do you take showers? We don't do that in Germany!
>>108261169>more DIYThe problem with this is health hazards and fire hazards.It isn't hard to install some styrofoam panels yourself. But not having mold in your epically air tight wall and in your ventilation, not breeding a thousand different types of bacteria in your warm water tank, that never reaches a high enough temperature to kill them off, and not burning to death like a zoomer in switzerland, is a different subject.
Why the fuck would you even want passive anything when solar panels are cheap as dirtpay chinks the five dollars for a warehouse of solar panels (so they conveniently pollute their own country instead of it being done locally) and plaster the entire neighborhood with the fucking things. Pay another five bucks for a truckload of lifepo4 cells and you can even be self sufficient in the middle of wibter unless you live in fucking trondheimsolar panels are magic and even turdworlders from africa are starting to use them. fully passive anything is retarded when solar exists.
>>108261293Because of the winter months.That's what this thread is about.You could of course simply buy a diesel generator for that time, but that's not an option for the government worshipping green energy loonies, who only treat autarky as a selling buzzword.
>>108261311>autarkyYou just taught me a new word, anon. *kudos*That's not easy. Mark that on the calandar.>government worshipping green energy looniesEvidence to support most people aim for panels out of worship for .gov?As opposed to my posit, that it's entirely unrelated to the .gov and is centric purely on their personal beliefs. Even if that belief is only they shouldn't pay for energy...>buy a diesel generator for that timeCould. Could.But you *could* also get wind turbines. Most places have wind. It might actually only end up as a comparative trickle. But that trickle into a bucket will fill it up... So if you've batteries...
>>108261342no, a wind turbine buzzing in your yard is not an option
>>108261122>Decent ground source heat pump should output 50°C mark and score upwards of 12:1 on efficencies...Mine delivers up to 60°C water for circulation, and much warmer for hot water taps, and I have sufficient power to defrost the road and detached garage during winter. That outdoor circuit will be used during summer to pump heat into the ground to prime the thermal reservoir for the subsequent winter. This is well established tech.
>>108261369cool, and legionella needs 75 to 80 degrees to die
>>108261358>is not an optionIt is - it's just one you're not willing to entertain...Tho if a wind turbine is too loud, you really don't wanna be thinkin' about weasle jenny...They don't needa be that noisy, as a rule. Generally the largest noise is the wind hittin' the blades.Typically to catch 'good wind' they'll want to be mounted at elevation which will reduce impact further... If you use the house as a mountpoint it's not in the garden anymore...
>>108261122>score upwards of 12:1 on efficencies???????maybe in icelandthe usual is 3-4:1, if you do your homework you get 5:1
>>108261277>But not having mold in your epically air tight wallProper high insulation buildings have a barrier on the warm side. If you do it wrong, at least the mold is on the outside of the barrier.Heatpumpboilers are cheap and do their own legionella control cycle.If you're too retarded to do it right, then darwin awards are a feature, not a bug.
>>108261379>cool, and legionella needs 75 to 80 degrees to dieTypically residental hot water systems don't go much over 60 anon...Water comes outta my tap @ 75°C but I'm non-standard...>>108261396>if you do your homework you get 5:1Most settle about that ballpark..A quick glance failed to locate, but I recall lookin' at a model what claimed it'd output up to 17KW whilst eatin' less than 1.5KW atta wall... Don't see nuttin close tho...Sure I've seen higher n 5:1 but locate little...
>>108261147>heat pump that will eat 1KW at the wall and deliver 15+KW of heatAnon, you're genuinely fucked in the head if you believe that a 15:1 ratio is, or will ever be, possible.
>>108261538That was an air source pump, btw.>you're genuinely fucked in the headThat I may be. But for entirely different reasons...>15:1 ratio is, or will ever be, possible.I'm not thinkin' much in the way of a 'hard law' of physics that writes this off the cards...I was under the impression the 'gains' from these sorts of systems is essentially a function of surface area and compression. Surface area to absorb the heat and compression to stick it all in one spot for harvesting...How much heat you're pullin' outta floor gonna depend on a few things... But from my (possibly, lack of) understanding the electrical cost comes at the compression. Modifying variables around that may have potential benefit...
>>108261379The 60°C water is in a closed circuit and air is removed.The tap water is hot enough to kill legionella. There was extensive documentation for the system and quite a bit about safeguards against legionella.
>>108261629The max theoretical CoP is T-hot/(T-hot - T-cold) in degrees Kelvin says Google.
>>108253602>>108255473what are these guys talking about moncrystalline is better
I actually own solar, it's how I power the minifridge in my van. Solar is great when you are off the grid, or trying to avoid creating noise when off the grid. The rest of the time, you are better off using grid power or a generator. As others have mentioned, the panels degrade over time. Solar is already a trickle-flow charge, so once you get below about 85-80% efficiency, you no longer have enough power to properly charge your batteries. But the biggest issue is the batteries themselves. Lead-acid deep cycle batteries are the most cost effective choice, and they still have an expected lifespan of 5 years. Even if you ignore the startup costs of wiring, charge controller, mounting brackets, etc, the regular replacement costs of panels and batteries makes solar have a higher cost-per-KW/hr than just using a generator.All of this is info I was told and didn't believe from a man who lived out of an RV and used 100% solar for all his power. After getting my own panels and batteries, I understood what he was talking about. Solar is great, in specific use-cases. If you don't have those specific use-cases, grid power or a generator is superior.
>>108262958>Solar is already a trickle-flow charge, so once you get below about 85-80% efficiency, you no longer have enough power to properly charge your batteries.are you retarded?>Lead-acid deep cycle batteries are the most cost effective choiceoh nvm you definitely are
>>108261169>https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/an-off-grid-solar-communityI was surprised to read that batteries last only 8 years, is that true?
>>108263438>I was surprised to read that batteries last only 8 years, is that true?without losing any capacity maybe?
Euro anon here who works for a energy company, europe is banking hard on future massive battery parks that will store green energy. They are already reserving land for this and putting up powerlines for these future battery parks. The fact that we cant make these batteries ourselves and will have to buy them all from china, and that the storage capacity is a joke for suplying a real energy baseline is beyond the greenfag politicians who decide these battery parks will be the future of europe.
>>108263579https://tractebel-engie.com/en/news/colossal-battery-park-in-belgium-to-store-energy-to-power-385000-households/This is one of those battery parks, this one will be used as promo tool to the public, and they will hide all the faults and only sell the good sides of it to us.
>>108263579>the storage capacity is a joke for suplying a real energy baseline>>108258925
>>108263597How are you going to use solar panels to fill up battery parks in places like europe and north america where there is no sun in fall and a winter?
>>108245412the amount of retardation in a few words you shat out is astounding. i'm kind of impressed actually.
>>108258925This poster is German, ignore what he says.
>>108263585>>108263579I spent $5.3k on batteries and got 64 kwh of lifepo4 which will last north of 15 years (10000 cycles, realistically 5000 since age + chink lies). 64 kwh is enough for like 5 days for a midsized house, unless it’s like -20C outside.how the fuck aren’t batteries a good energy storage option?>muh no sunGrid scale you also get windmills. muh dunkelflaute - just burn gas
>>108264632>$5.3k on batteries and got 64 kwhSo you bought a shitload of single batteries from temu and rigged them up yourself or what because that price is bullshit otherwise.
>>108264673prices are going down by a fuckton lately. there’s plenty of decent chinesium at 2.5-3k for 32 kwh banks, I ordered two. the cells used are the same as the more expensive ones since it’s just a few factories manufacturing those, the difference is build materials for the boxes, the bars and cables inside, the bms, whether theyre fit for being outside or inside only and whether theyre certified (those are not since idc, but this isnt an issue for gubmints).best thing is that the cell manufactories arent even running at full capacity at the moment so prices are liable to fall down even further. grid scale you get them even cheaper, and possibly you can do some funky shit with sodium and so on that you’d never want to use at home
>>108264716I would not put those in my house but somewhere outside in a shed because those chinesium fuckers could burn your house down. Give me link of where you found them.
>>108264751I’m on a train atm with only a phone so i cant find the details but I literally just bought from amazon. you can probably get a better deal on aliexpress or whatever.theres ruixu that is certified for insurance but thats extra money, then theres yixiang(?) which is ruixu but not certified. you get all the materials and need to assemble it yourself but its like 1-2 hours of work per box. there was some company with a panda logo which had them even cheaper and the insides looked good enough but idk, havent tested obviously.i do have them in a shed outside just in case, the inverter can be pretty loud so its more convenient that way anyway (10kW SungoldPower manufactured by SRNE is both cheap and of decent quality, zero issues so far, just make sure its srne and not some shitass xingpong)
>>108264798>ruixuThey sell those here in eurostan but they are way more expensive then in the US.
>>108264751>because those chinesium fuckers could burn your house down.chyna does 98% of global lifepo4 productionsaying chink batteries will set your shit on fire seems silly when chink batteries are the only batteries you can buy unless you go li ion, but those are much shittier for long term storage
>>108264858There is a difference between <100wh you find in common electronics, and tens of kwh. Even a 500wh ebike battery is very destructive if it catches fire. Those however are different chemistries, lifepo4 is supposed to be more stable. I even saw a video of someone stabbing and piercing one directly with no fire, and when they do burn supposedly it's not as fierce. But with that much energy I would still be careful.
>>108263585>700MW. This corresponds to the average energy consumption of 385,000 households stored by the batteries each year and fed back into the electrical grid.Massive red flag:Mixing up power (W) and energy (Wh)Nowhere does it even mention the storage capacity.So utter bullshit "article" by """journalist""" (more likely AI slop).
>>108264858>chyna does 98% of global lifepo4 productionI would still buy from a reputable European brand that sources their cells carefully and does its own QC instead of some Chinese black box that might contain anything inside.Especially after watching this video on the difference in quality between various battery cell suppliers:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y23nfAOiXQ
>>108264892Equally disturbing is the fact that it is all in the open, easily accessible for bomb carrying drones. It is as if nobody has learned anything from the war in Ukraine.
>>108264930This, even the chinese themself rather buy from western brands then buy their own because they know how much the chinese like to scam the system.
>>108264930Buying directly from china without some importer intermediary is too risky. You can get +10y guarantees for chinesium battery packs.
I didn't watch because I know this guy is a blind libshitter and he links anti ice shit in all his descriptions, but does he actually have a point here?
>>108262004Don't sound electrical to me...Suggests strongly this 5:1 is a configurational thing more than a physical limit thing...>>108263438>batteries last only 8 years, is that true?Depends on many things...What type of batteries. LiFePo4 will last longer than AGM. AGM should go longer than wet acid. How often they cycle - fully and partially ... Leaving cells full isn't good for 'em helf ... Precise charge/discharge profiles impact greatly.But by 8 year you should be able to detect some loss in lead acids...Donut Labs claim they have a solid state battery. A little up in the air at the moment, ½ the world claiming scam. Seen supposedly 'independant' testing produce some graphs of charge/discharge - and it does look like a battery. How good of a battery is another thing entirely but one of the "interesting" properties to the solid state tech is number of charge cycles. Where decent Li-Ion chemistry will cycle 2-4k solid state should 100k+... I'd imagine these to last significantly longer than 8 years...>>108263579>cant make these batteries ourselvesYou're limiting your thinkin' to lithium?>the storage capacity is a joke for suplying a real energy baselineMW is MW?>>108265013>easily accessible for bomb carrying dronesAnd the rest of the infrastructure isn't?What's your plan here, einstien? Nets everywhere? Literally everywhere?
>>108245431200% over provision and have 100% of your needs met for the rest of your natural existence. Life is a temporary problem, bud. Stop looking for permanent solutions.
>>108265328I didn't watch because I'm a zoomer with a short attention span. I just like solar panels so I say he btfo'd chuds.
>>108246013My backyard creek is like 300 meters from my house. Too much land is a curse.
>>108260932>Regular snow>Like central yuropYeah man, like 2 days a year. The snow is really killing us here. Anyways, just get heat strips. The power demand is nothing compared to what the panels output.
>>108265367Wanna trade for a suburb house
>>108265342>>the storage capacity is a joke for suplying a real energy baseline>MW is MW?MW isn't a measure of storage capacity.>what's the range of your car?>it has 200 horsepower!
>>108262958Solid advice, anon. Thanks
Solar and wind are shit, retarded eunuch germans are now paying for russian gas instead
>>108265506Gas is cleaner than nuclear. Historically if every coal and nuclear plant was replaced by a gas plant we'd be in a much better place right now. Halved CO2 emissions, no Chernobyl, Fukushima, Three Mile Island, no nucler waste lying around.
>>108265506They're paying for Qatari gas, which is now cut off due to the Iran war.
>>108265539>Chernobylretarded Societ designFukushimazero deaths, zero harm to the environment.>Three Mile Islandzero deaths, zero harm to the environment.>no nucler waste lying around.pic related.
>>108265557In any case, nuclear is dead >>108258925 and we fortunately don't have to deal with anymore nuclear poo at least in western countries.
>>108265367>My backyard creek is like 300 meters from my houseSo build a shed.The shed houses the storage, inverters etc. Build it across the creek it can house the generator too.Once you hit AC your transmission losses will drop, so runnin' 300 meters isn't an impossible task...>>108265452>MW isn't a measure of storage capacity.True. But one would persume you actually get the point as you failed to refute it.>Fukushimazero deaths,Directly?Well I can think of two workers on site that had no detection equipment that was exposed to enough of a dose to render them unconscious instantly. See pictures of 'em leaving hospital, but iunno if it was them. I imagine they're not too healfy if alive. Most of the yakuza conscripted homeless sent in to clear it up are difficult to trace. Probably why that method was selected.Are you able to evidence the large thyroid cancer rate in children is unrelated to fukashima?>zero harm to the environment.Yeah. You can throw three active nuclear cores into the ocean with no long term consequence. That sounds about right. I'm sure the high cancer rate in bottom feeders, multi-species dieoffs, mass beachings etc since are all just a co-incidence.The gulf of mexico scoring readings for strontium 90 and cesium 134 a few years later comparable to 1 mile offshore fuckashima a month after the incident is fine...
>>108253602So why exactly is using nos too soon bad?Surely being up to the max speed earlier is better.
>>108265671>I imagine they're not too healfy if alive.One worker has gotten cancer but there is no evidence it has anything to do with the incident.People get cancer all the time.>Are you able to evidence the large thyroid cancer rate in children is unrelated to fukashima?There was no increase rate.And they monitored it very carefully.What the scaremonger lugenpresse probably told you was they discovered a record number of people with early thyroid cancer.But that's because they discovered those cancers years earlier than they would have if they hadn't performed all those tests.Thyroid cancer has a 100% survival rate if you discover it in it's early stage, so ironically the Fukashima incident actually SAVED lives.
>>108265671>The gulf of mexico scoring readings for strontium 90 and cesium 134 a few years later comparable to 1 mile offshore fuckashima a month after the incident is fine...>OMG Fukushima has as little radiation as the rest of the world it's not elevated at all it's normal NOOOOOOOOO we're all GONNA DIEEEEEEEEE! from the completely normal strontium 90 and cesium 134 levels found everywhere else.
>>108266078>People get cancer all the time.Yeah. I'm sure getting 170-180 millisieverts unconscious near that pool is just coincidence. For scaling. It's 0.03 in this room right now.>There was no increase rate.Before fukashima: 0.22 cases per 100,000 peopleAfter fuksashima : 0.55 cases per 100,000 peopleThat's over doubled.>>108266129>it's not elevated at all As I'm able to track the initial manhatten tests still lapping, that's clearly bullshit.>from the completely normal strontium 90 and cesium 134 levels found everywhere else.The completely normal byproducts of fissiled plutonium/uranimix?What leads you suppose these are occured 'normally'?What leads you to believe their distribution is uniformly applied?
BECAUSE YOUF UCKING IDIOT WE CAN'T AFFORD HOUSES, WHERE ARE WE GOING TO PUT THE PANELS???
>>108267152Without a house your energy requirements should drop right thru the floor and you can very easily carry that panel with you.
>>108255097His point on solar panels comes with a lot of unexplained asterisks but he is right that we should be switching cars from petroleum to electric because with electrics you can diversify the production of the electricity to any power producing source whereas with petroleum thats all you get. As for the end of the video he shouldve never recorded that, its undermines the entire video because hes ranting about tribal bullshit, espoused factually incorrect information about a current thing, and then proceeds to encourage people to blindly participate in tribal bullshit. Dates the video in a bad way. He'll never remove it even if he regrets it since he has tribal brain which means he cant let some made up boogeyman win.
>>108265342>And the rest of the infrastructure isn't?Much is. The question is how easily you can replace parts. Pylons and wire structures have already been attacked, seeminly in trials, but are easily fixed. A bombed battery facility with thermal runaway to boot, not so much.We had a risk report made here a few decades ago, pointing out risks and power infrastructire. Of course, exactly nothing was done.
