The based customer-experience gigachads of Northern Europe are planning to fight back against the technology giants who have been ruining our lives. So far, all they've done has been to make a slightly lame video and written some letters, but at least it's a start. Do you think they'll be able to stop the plutocratic destruction of our online joy? I think they'll never manage it unless I make a thread about it, so here you go.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4Upf_B9RLQhttps://www.forbrukerradet.no/breakingfree/
someone think of the poor megacorporation
>>108271728>So far, all they've done has been to make a slightly lame video and written some letters, but at least it's a startA start to what? More slacktivism? American tech companies have repeatedly shown they'd rather just rangeblock euros than comply with their bitching. Unless they can point nukes at the Bay area they have no leverage.
let me guess, the solution is less anonimity, also importing 50 million indians asap
>>108271768You can read the letter here. It does not mention Indians: https://storage02.forbrukerradet.no/media/2026/02/2026-02-27-final-letter-to-eu-policymakers-2.pdf
>>108271728>we are sending letterholy shit please don't, can't we negotiate
>>108271728>we're sending a letterFinally!
>>108271759They made better weapons than Gadgetron tho
ye, funny video. seems like its about info wars
>>108271768You can already tell it'll be a neutered campaign because they complain about the customer support chat being an AI instead of a foreigner. Can't go after the actual cause of software getting shittier, companies outsourcing to cheap unskilled devs, because that would be mean to Indians
>>108271728Maybe if they would have supported the more focused push, I wouldn't believe that this was doomed to fail. Normalfaga don't care and don't know any better. Without getting normalfags to care political policy will continue to favor the mega corporations that buy off the politicians to keep letting them sell worse products for more money and keep other companies from joining the market with regulations that cannot be complied with without established capital investment or selling out to stock holders that demand that companies follow these same anti consumer policies so their stock prices continually go up.
>>108271728Let's see them actually do anything
>>108271762It's awfully convenient that when people are at a point when they are pissed off enough to look for alternatives, it's becoming cost prohibitive to have one.
>should we make better stuff?>nah let's just pass laws and sue the Americans when they make stuff
The most realistic thing europe can do is have some kind of EU fund to bootstrap alternatives to American services. Will they do it? probably not, the invidiual member states have the US tech industry's balls deep down their throats even if "the EU" has the will to do it.
>we are sending lettersk, keep me posted!
>>108271728reminder that the term you continue to use was coined by one of (them)
>>108271762>rangeblock eurosWorks for me.When they're gone they're gone.
>>108272532The French government is actively developing an alternative to all the Microsoft web services.They plan to make it mandatory for all French government agencies.I think Germany is also involved.European countries should be doing way more but at least some are waking up.
>>108271762>American tech companies have repeatedly shown they'd rather just rangeblock euros than comply with their bitching.kek, not actually happening i can watch whatever, i only encountered that when i got sent very local usa newspapers
>>108272359Enshittification isn't the result of bad programmers, it's a deliberate act to maximize profits.The general idea is to get users locked into your ecosystem and then squeeze them out as much as you can.Even the best written software made by blonde programming Gods can be shit.Not shit because it has some bugs but shit because it now has ads and makes you pay for features that used to come standard.
>>108272950Hopefully France can do it, every time someone tries to break away from MS they engage in full scale fuckery. For example it dosen't matter if some government group switches to an alternative, it breaks down when they can't read or edit anyone elses documents because word documents are incompatible and constantly break.
>>108271728What do they actually think they can do to fight enshittification? Make it illegal to patch software?
>>108273033Breaking monopolies and walled ecosystems would be the best thing.And the EU is quite open to that.Also remember the EU is a trade organization so ensuring fair competition is actually their job.
>>108273364Creating common open standards for document files would probably go a long way. Mandate all office software in Europe has to interoperate.Hopefully would eliminate any issues with one country using one system and another using another.
>>108271728>putting all of your trust in a bunch of Mr. nobodies to force tech kikes into making decently repairable and durable productsFucking kek. The future from now onward will be fully DIY for everything deemed necessary
kek, good video
>>108271728Trying to fix enshittification is like trying to fix healthcare. You can't just solve it by piling mandates on to do better, because a lot of it is created and enabled by contemporary values and power structures, some of which you will have to abandon, and others that you'll need to relocate to within your sphere of influence in order to stop all the many, many problems that people call "enshittification". Doesn't mean you shouldn't TRY, but it is a massively complex problem to untangle. So massive that corporate interests can easily lobby efforts to undo it, and create regulations that either make it worse or ensure monopoly power.
>>108274108this desu. corporate interests are a massive bloodsucking parasite by this point. feed it gall and it'll just move hosts. that's the problem with how international money has gotten, you can just move your base of operations and employ indonesians for cheap.
>>108272386>Maybe if they would have supported the more focused pushIf you're talking about these people supporting the citizens' initiative, then no, because Norway is not in the EU.
>>108274108Ideally we need monopoly busting and other mechanisms against corporate consolidation, when companies get too few in an industry they start colluding. Maybe some protections against lock-in, etc.
>>108275516>mechanisms against corporate consolidationGood luck with that. The system has been adding layers of bureaucratic and monetary overhead to itself precisely to eliminate any feasible competition from below. Why do you think companies like McDonald's and Starbucks are such big proponents of increasing the minimum wage?
>>108275663I mean I'm pro regulation when it comes to safety and setting standards, things like that.But I do appreciate that regulation can be gamed by industry incumbents to prevent competition. Idealy they should be prevented from getting to the kind of size where they can influence it.
>>108271762>just rangeblock euros tEuros write most of the FOSS so when that happens we get better open source software here.
>>108272386I really don't fucking get the picrel initiative. The initiative does not propose any real way to comply other than providing server binaries, which is an unacceptable solution. What if it depends on libraries that the developer cannot redistribute? What if it uses private cloud services that are not available outside of said cloud? What if it runs on ARM CPUs or something?
>>108271762>rangeblock EurosEuros still consider the burgers responsible when they use VPNs to bypass the rangeblocks.
>>108271728You deserve what you tolerate. Just stop using products you dont like. Imagine needing the government or ngo's to force you to stop using a product.
>>108271728Norway is a fucking shithole.>$18 for 500ml of beer.>Buses run from 10am to 2:30pm regularly.>Shops open Monday-Wednesday only.>Poor people pay 70% income tax.>Everyone there is miserable but they're so brainwashed that when you ask them about it they say "yes this is the best country ever im so glad we pay 70% income tax because in exchange for paying we get free(??? kek) healthcare glory to the motherland">going the way of sweden in terms of browns murdering and raping>"mainstream software is shitty? don't worry comrades, we will sign a petition and everything will magically improve"If i was forced to choose, I'd unironically rather live in Tanzania than Norway
>>108275976>unironicallyI think you mean "ironically"
>>108275924It is not up to the initiative to provide solutions. There are many ways the publishers can do this and the choice... is... theirs. 15 years ago it wasn't standard practice to remotely kill off games you've sold whenever you please with no refunds, so the argument that there's some kind of major technological obstacle in the way is pure retardation. It's corporate greed, pure and simple.Realistically, the most feasible scenario stemming from this initiative is that they make a point that you cannot legally sell things to consumers that can be remotely bricked whenever the publisher decides to do that - statement that the publisher reserves the right to deprive you of the purchase and not give you a refund is not good enough. If the industry is hell-bent on making disposable slop games, then it will find a way to keep making them, but the consumer needs to be given an explicit date until which the game HAS TO remain functional. If it doesn't - refunds. If there's no refunds - lawsuits. I don't see how you would be able to argue that this is unfair from a consumer's perspective without getting into the whole creative cultural works preservation discussion (good luck with that). The hope is that the negative publicity would be enough to deter the practice at least somewhat. I don't see it being completely eliminated, there's just no way. Especially now that the industry is trying to shift everything to a subscription model anyway.
>>108271728based, at the very least aknowledge the issue and do something, sure beats doing fucking nothing
>>108276188so... we might as well join and support
>>108276173>There are many ways the publishers can do this and the choiceLike what? There are only two real options: publish server binaries, or do the explicit date thing. The first option is unacceptable because the players are not entitled to be able to self-host even after the game officially closes and should be entitled to it, the second option makes no difference.
>>108274108Great example, because healthcare in Norway is 1000x better than in the US
>>108276193>the players are not entitled to be able to self-host even after the game officially closes and should be entitled to itThat right there says it all - there's no point in trying to discuss potential solutions when you don't think there's anything wrong with the current practices.>the second option makes no differenceIt won't eliminate the practice, but it will definitely make a difference on how such games are sold. For example, you certainly won't be able to charge full price anymore for a game that is set to become unplayable in, say, 380 days. You'll have to adjust the price accordingly, to figure out how much people are willing to spend for a game that is set to expire. And, as I already said, this will likely dissuade at least some publishers from engaging in said practices to begin with.
>>108276257That's not what I said at all, there's a problem with publishers discontinuing live service games that people paid for too early, but forcing publishers to allow self-hosting after discontinuation is a hostile and entitled solution because it would lead to players knowing details about the game that they were never supposed to know, for example about its shop or lootboxes systems (unless you're saying that the published server binary would not include that kind of experience at all, but rather "server list" style gaming with no matchmaking or anything else) and in general, I simply feel inclined to side with the publisher/developer who doesn't want to allow you to self-host regardless of any "rational" reasons, you just shouldn't be able to force anyone to do it, this is absolutely a case of entitlement coming from the players in my opinion
>>108275976You could go live in Tanzania right now if you so desired
>>108276310>there's a problem with publishers discontinuing live service games that people paid for too earlyIt's only a problem if all of the following is true: the game is sold as a good rather than a service, the precise termination date was not communicated at the point of sale and there's no refunds.>forcing publishers to allow self-hosting after discontinuation is a hostile and entitled solution>in general, I simply feel inclined to side with the publisher/developer who doesn't want to allow you to self-host regardless of any "rational" reasons, you just shouldn't be able to force anyone to do itIt's one of the many possible solutions that the publisher can go for. Nobody would be forced to pick any specific method of compliance.>unless you're saying that the published server binary would not include that kind of experience at all, but rather "server list" style gaming with no matchmaking or anything elseThat would certainly qualify as a reasonable solution.>this is absolutely a case of entitlement coming from the players in my opinionI think when it comes to the subject of "entitlement", the ability of being able to keep what you bought is a fairly fundamental concept.
>>108271728they should start with the enshitskinification of their population
>>108276193You don't understand.Initiative says you cannot brick games not that they have to be 100% in working order. Even if they leave single player mode then the initiative is happy.Server binaries is something a new initiative would want after this one succeeds
>>108276482thankfully i don't actually live in Norway, although my cunt is not much better.am planning to move somewhere else but need to sort my shit out first so probably in a couple of years.probably not Tanzania though (kek)
>>108276490NTA>It's only a problem if all of the following is true: the game is sold as a good rather than a service, the precise termination date was not communicated at the point of sale and there's no refunds.I think they would make the (reasonable) claim that the game client itself was sold as a good with multiplayer servers provided as a free accompanying service.Also, although they don't specify the termination date, they do include clauses in the EULA to the effect of "we are providing you a service and we may discontinue it at any time">the ability of being able to keep what you bought is a fairly fundamental conceptyou didn't buy the server thoughI don't think the problem here is in the purchase contract, after all, you agreed to it.And it's silly to argue that the dev should be forced to provide you an additional free good/service, especially when you didn't care enough about it to demand it as a condition of purchase.Aside from human stupidity, the only problems is in copyright law, since that's the sole legal barrier to creating your own solution, be it modding the client, reverse-engineering or writing your own server software.
>>108276573>I think they would make the (reasonable) claim that the game client itself was sold as a good with multiplayer servers provided as a free accompanying service.The multiplayer/singleplayer aspect is tricky, since the crux is how much of a core feature multiplayer is. For example, it is reasonable to put GTA4/5 exactly in the category you describe, so in theory there would be no legal issues with multiplayer game mode being shut down, as long as you can still play the singleplayer game. For a game where multiplayer is the main or sole mode, this would not be allowed. The problem is where do you draw the line, what if it's not clear whether the main component is singleplayer or multiplayer? I guess the hope is that publishers would err on the side of caution.>Also, although they don't specify the termination date, they do include clauses in the EULA to the effect of "we are providing you a service and we may discontinue it at any time">I don't think the problem here is in the purchase contract, after all, you agreed to it.They can call it a service, that does not legally make it so. They can say they may do whatever they want in the EULA, that does not give them the right to make their own laws.>you didn't buy the server thoughNo, I bought a game which I expect to be reasonably functional indefinitely.>it's silly to argue that the dev should be forced to provide you an additional free good/serviceGood thing nobody's arguing for that then.>especially when you didn't care enough about it to demand it as a condition of purchaseA consumer is in no position to make such demands at the point of purchase.>Aside from human stupidity, the only problems is in copyright law, since that's the sole legal barrier to creating your own solution, be it modding the client, reverse-engineering or writing your own server software.The SKG movement is focused on more... realistic approaches, ones that don't involve upending copyright / intellectual property laws.
>>108276493finding a non-white person in Norway is the fucking hardest thing ever
>>108276490>It's one of the many possible solutions that the publisher can go for. Nobody would be forced to pick any specific method of compliance.SKG anons say that, but they're clearly implying/hoping that there will be no good/socially-acceptable solution other than the one that involves releasing server binaries>That would certainly qualify as a reasonable solution.Would it though? What would, for example, Overwatch look like with a server that just supports matches without any kind of ranking, matches, progression, etc?
>>108277025The law is not meant to be retroactive, so there would likely be a grace period to allow games to be designed from the ground up with compliance in mind. Let's not forget the easier ways to circumvent the law, such as "renting" the game via subscription, making it free to play, making a game entirely exclusive to "game streaming" services, etc. I don't know anything about Overwatch, so I'm not gonna speculate over the specifics of it. But I'm certain that this part of the industry will simply shift goalposts and SKG will have to suck it up.
>>108276253Norway's system isn't bogged down by millions of browns
