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The Gospel of the Axe: Deconstructing the "Divine" Optimizer
The gaming industry’s history is haunted by the hagiography of John Carmack—a myth built by tech-illiterate journalists who mistook a socially stunted obsessive for a mathematical messiah. In reality, Carmack wasn’t a pioneer of elegant science; he was a guerilla "optimizer" whose entire "genius" consisted of being the only one in the room willing to grind 14 hours a day to prove that a blunt axe can, in fact, shape a log if you hit it hard enough.

1/10. The PC 3D Myth: Arriving Late to a Crowded Party
One of the most persistent delusions of the Carmack cult is that he "brought 3D to the PC." In reality, Carmack arrived late to a party that was already in full swing, offering a simplified, "dumbed-down" version of what others had already mastered.

The Flight Sim Predecessors: Years before Wolfenstein 3D, companies like Sublogic (Flight Simulator) and MicroProse were already rendering complex 3D worlds with full six-degrees-of-freedom rotation and polygonal models.
Looking Glass Superiority: While Carmack was still struggling with 2.5D raycasting (where you couldn't even look up or down without the world warping), Looking Glass Studios was developing Ultima Underworld. Their engine featured sloped floors, true 3D architecture, and complex physics—all of which made Carmack's "revolution" look like a child's drawing with crayons. Carmack didn't "invent" 3D; he just stripped it of all mathematical sophistication so it could run on a toaster, sacrificing depth for raw, dumb speed.
>>
2/10. The Stolen Fire: Fanboy Delusions vs. Reality
The most pathetic part of the Carmack cult is his fanboys "circle-jerking" over algorithms they think he invented. To this day, they credit him with the creation of Binary Space Partitioning (BSP), Z-buffering, and surface caching.

The Scavenger of Knowledge: Carmack himself has admitted in numerous interviews and old .plan files that he didn't "invent" these structures. He was a scavenger of existing knowledge, simply implementation-focused. He read about BSP trees in academic papers from the 80s and lifted technical tricks from columns in Dr. Dobb's Journal. While his acolytes worship him as a god of invention, Carmack was just a guy with a library card, implementing 20-year-old academic concepts while everyone else was busy actually designing fun games.
>>
3/10. Basic Math Blunders: From Wolfenstein to Abyss
Carmack’s mathematical "pedigree" was shaky from the start, characterized by a lack of formal rigour. Since the days of Wolfenstein 3D and Catacomb 3-D, his code was littered with embarrassing amateurisms that would make a freshman engineering student cringe.

Normalization Nightmares: His early attempts at vector normalization and matrix addition were famously broken. He frequently skipped fundamental steps or implemented "unique" ways to handle rotations that resulted in jittery, unstable math and cumulative errors. These weren't "clever optimizations"; they were fundamental misunderstandings of linear algebra. He spent years fighting bugs that he had built into the very foundation of his engines simply because he refused to learn how matrices actually work before trying to "optimize" them.
>>
4/10. Networking Nightmares: The Seniaks of the World
For a man hailed as a technical god, Carmack’s early networking code was an unmitigated disaster. The original Quake netcode was so bloated and "chatty" that it was virtually unplayable on anything but a local LAN. He completely failed to understand the basic physics of latencies and packet loss in a real-world environment.

The QuakeWorld Rescue: It was John Taylor (Seniak) who actually made Quake playable over the internet. While Carmack was busy bit-shifting, Seniak had to step in and write QuakeWorld, introducing client-side prediction to mask the lag that Carmack’s "genius" code simply ignored. Carmack didn't "solve" internet gaming; he provided a broken socket that real engineers like Seniak had to rebuild while holding his hand.

The Valve Intervention: When Valve licensed the engine for Half-Life, they didn't just "tweak" the code; they had to rip it out and bury it. Valve’s team realized his "optimized" mess was unusable over real-world connections and rewrote the entire networking layer from scratch to introduce prediction and lag compensation—concepts Carmack was too "specialized" to grasp.
>>
5/10. The DarkPlaces Autopsy: Lady Havoc’s Cleanup
The true state of Carmack's "sacred" code is best seen through the eyes of those who spent decades trying to fix it. Lady Havoc (Ashley Rose Hale), creator of the DarkPlaces engine, didn't just add "shiny effects"—she had to perform an autopsy on a rotting corpse.

The QuakeC Shambles: Lady Havoc famously stated she was "not satisfied" with the original QuakeC code. She found it so limiting and poorly structured that she had to rewrite fundamental physics (like player movement) from scratch to achieve something resembling "readability" and "optimization."

Hardcoded Hubris: Carmack's code was riddled with hardcoded limits that choked the community for years. DarkPlaces had to be "limit-removing" just to allow the engine to breathe. Lady Havoc had to fix basic logic errors in server-side code, from broken savegame parameters to botched precaching, proving that the "god of code" couldn't even handle a clean file-loading routine.
>>
6/10. The Academic Gap: Discovering Fire at Forty
Carmack’s "specialization" was actually a gaping hole in his education. Because he treated university as an obstacle, he spent decades reinventing the wheel while pretending it was a revolution.

The Bloom Filter Embarrassment: Perhaps the most hilarious proof of his academic poverty was when Carmack, well into his 40s, "discovered" and publicly marveled at Bloom Filters. For any CS student, this is basic, second-year curriculum material from 1970. To see a "tech deity" announce it as a breakthrough in middle age is like watching a professional chef discover that salt makes food taste better. It perfectly illustrates how his "thinking outside the box" was just a symptom of not knowing what was actually inside the box.

7/10. Working in the Dark: The "Black Box" Trauma
Ask any engineer who had to license an id Tech engine: the code was a nightmare to maintain. Carmack wrote code for Carmack, not for a team.

Zero Documentation: His "14-hour grind" didn't leave time for comments or documentation. Licensors found themselves staring at a "Black Box" of cryptic, low-level hacks that were impossible to modify without breaking the entire house of cards.
The "Rigid God" Problem: While Epic’s Unreal Engine was built to be modular and readable, Carmack’s engines were built like a monolithic granite block. Engineers complained that his code was "brittle," "arrogant," and utterly indifferent to the reality of collaborative development. If you wanted to change one element, you had to understand the entire convoluted mess inside John’s head.
>>
8. Technological Terrorism: The Engine is the Master
Carmack practiced a form of technological terrorism, forcing the design team to bend their creative vision to the whims of his latest "log-hacking" experiment.

Reverse Logic: In a professional studio, you build an engine to support a game. Carmack did the opposite: he built a rigid, fragile engine and then demanded that the designers find a way to make it look like a game. The designers weren't making art; they were glorified beta testers for Carmack’s personal coding hobby, leading to "museum-like" environments where everything was static because the engine was too brittle to handle dynamic change.

9. Fighting the Hardware: The Ego vs. The GPU
One of the most ironic chapters of his career was his stubborn refusal to let the GPU do its job. Carmack developed a pathological need to calculate everything on the CPU, even when specialized hardware had already mastered those tasks.

Software Overkill: During the development of his later engines, he stood "firmly opposed" to leveraging modern GPU features, preferring to write complex software-based emulations simply to maintain total control. This "software-first" arrogance cost id Software years of development time and resulted in engines that were technically impressive only to other code-archeologists, but practically useless for modern game design.

10. The Era of Design Failures (The "Fuck-Ups")

Doom 3 (The Flashlight Fiasco): The engine was so "optimized" (read: inflexible) that it couldn't handle more than one light source without choking. The "flashlight or gun" choice was a desperate bandage on a crippled engine.
Rage (The MegaTexture Disaster): His obsession with a single "clever" trick led to the id Tech 5 catastrophe. The result? A blurry mess because his "12-hour-a-day specialization" missed the entire evolution of modern hardware streaming.
>>
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Write a book with refined wording
>>
11. The Licensing Desert: Engines No One Wanted
The ultimate proof of Carmack’s failure as a systems architect is the market’s rejection. While Epic’s Unreal Engine became the industry standard, Carmack’s engines were treated like toxic waste.

id Tech 4 & 5: Practically no one wanted to license these engines. The industry took one look at the rigid, over-engineered "black box" and ran the other way. Developers realized that using Carmack’s tech meant becoming a slave to his specific, inflexible workflow. The "MegaTexture" disaster effectively killed id Tech as a licensing product, leaving it to rot as an internal-only tool.

Conclusion: The Harmful Ghost
The Carmack myth is a toxic rot in gamedev. It celebrates educational gaps as "purity," crunch as "passion," and unmaintainable hacks as "optimization." He wasn't a visionary; he was an aggressive samouczek who mistook his lack of formal knowledge for "innovation." By the time the world realized that Unreal Engine was better than id Tech, the "divine optimizer" was already halfway out the door, leaving behind a trail of broken designs and painted-on textures.
>>
>>108272018
>unmaintainable
oh so in otherwords its toxic to the gaas shitware infesting the games industry right now. okay understood.
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>>108272047
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12. Every "maverick" needs a handler. Michael Abrash was the adult who translated Carmack’s disorganized pile of bit-shifting tricks and rebranded it as the "Zen of Graphics Programming." Without Abrash’s academic street cred to act as an intellectual condom, Carmack’s raw, unprotected hacks would have been laughed out of any serious engineering department.
>>
13. TH FUCK HAPPEND TO HIS 20 MILLIONS AGI STARTUP THAT WENT RADIO SILENT?
>>
>>108272000
>Reverse Logic: In a professional studio, you build an engine to support a game. Carmack did the opposite: he built a rigid, fragile engine and then demanded that the designers find a way to make it look like a game. The designers weren't making art; they were glorified beta testers for Carmack’s personal coding hobby,
Extremely based of him.
>>
AI;dr
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>>108272174
>too much truth for my liking
okey
>>
>>108272646
It's full of false statements, I don't know why you even bothered.
>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatbot_psychosis
>>
>>108272672
Ah so John is for real the solo man tank one if switch army pocket knife corckscrew pocket fleslight infatible doll god of code?
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>>108272672
so strafe jumping and bunny hopping aren't real?
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>>108271937
this, Carmack should be replaced by a jew because goyimg dont deserve recognition
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>>108271937
>please chatgpt saar rite me a watertithe argument against wite man porgammers
>>
>>108273400
he was replaced by euros over a decade ago
euros always have to clean up after murrican "geniuses"
>>
>>108271937
I don't think Carmack ever claimed to be more than he is. It isn't his fault if even more uneducated nerds want to suck his dick.
>>
>>108271937
>Grok write me a 20 page novel about "white developer bad"
>>
Who gives a shit what the autist Carmack has to say. Anyone with a triple-digit IQ who's ever looked at his code is still laughing their asses off.
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>>108271937
don't care, not reading.
get fucked
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>>108271937
Can't we just appreciate good programmers without trying to tear them down? Sorry you're fragile ego is threatened by another developer.

You sound like a Rust tranny.
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>Sorry you're fragile ego
>you're
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>>108271937
Damn nigga is everything okay at home?
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>>108271937
I read this in John Romero's voice. Is it you John?
>>
So what YT slop hitpiece video released that got this anon in a tizzy?
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>>108274182
ah yet, Carmack is the only white person who codes
>>
Based OP dabbing on a hack

>>108272000
>Rage (The MegaTexture Disaster)
lel I thought it was funny that the big selling point was "I used lower level of detail for stuff that's far away so I can have really high res textures". No shit.
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>>108271937
Chris Sawyer.
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>>108271937
>Giving up the divine spark of human speech to a chatbot because you're too lazy to write your own article
Why would someone ever do this? Is the robot going to fuck your wife for you next?
>>
If you want me to read your essay don't use AI to write it
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>>108272174
this, what a retarded slide thread
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>>108275619
Last time OP had sex was 9 months before you were born. Contact your mom for details.
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>>108275560
why is she shitting herself
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>>108271937
>>108271944
>>108271959
>>108271974
a quick question, mr. carcuck, how many billions of dollars did your "VR" department at facebook lose again? I forget the exact number.
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>>108275655
>she
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>>108275674
This XD
>>
just a reminder that troons are trying to rewrite history around Carmack because he called a man in a dress he
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>>108276495
Sounds good. He deserves nothing less.
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>>108276495
I didn't know David Kushner was trans.
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>>108271979
>DarkPlaces is a high-performance, open-source game engine and source port for
Quake 1, originally developed by Ashley "LadyHavoc" Hale (formerly known as LordHavoc).
>>
>>108271979
>she
>>
this misses how the original doom net code used broadcasting and choaked local networks

i dont think it matters, john carmack never painted himself as a genius, he never tried to steal other peoples tech
he just wanted to make game engine and people believed in his speed philosophy and wanted to help make speedy games
they sacrificed their own visions to fit them into john carmacks speedy engine
there was nobody else doing it so he could make creative choices

the public glorified him as they are retards. so hating on carmack is fucking stupid
>>
>>108271959
>He spent years fighting bugs that he had built into the very foundation of his engines simply because he refused to learn how matrices actually work before trying to "optimize" them.
Kek based
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>>108276964
we ar not hating on him, we are just pointing out how bad he really is at his job vs how public paints him to be a god of code
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>>108276495
>a man in a dress
a catholic priest?
>>
>>108277099
he shipped, you didn't. you're a nobody loser clawing at somebody as a result of your own inadequacies. he is definitionally better than you.
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>>108277370
>you didn't
It's like autists like you cannot hide their condition; they HAVE to randomly project.
>>
>>108277377
aww strike a nerve? little baby gonna cry? need his little diapy changed? how about you deconstruct your numerous mental neuroses and develop into a worthwhile human being you stupid faggot
>>
>>108277402
>strike a nerve?
I seem to hate struck gold, thanks for asking.
>>
>>108271937
Why have an AI write your intellectual qualms for you? It damages the backing of your argument...
>>
>>108277402
Your mom used much friendlier language 9 months before your birth
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>>108277564
what in OP's posts is supposedly not true?
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>>108277590
I'm not educated on who Carmack is or was, so I don't know. My complaint lies in the use of AI tools (a practice which lacks intellectual merit) to launch a discussion about the intellectual merit of another man's work.
>>
>>108271959
>characterized by a lack of formal rigour
AI and its users type like they smell their farts during dilation, truly a gospel of the faggot.

>>108277490
>>108277572
You weren't even a Y sperm 15 years back.
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>>108271944
Let's see you implement something just from an academic paper.
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>>108272096
Abrash was the one who optimized Quake for contemporary x86 processors. Here's his Graphics Programming Black Book from 1997: https://www.phatcode.net/res/224/files/html/index.html. Calling him academic is an insult.
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>>108277762
>Abrash was the one who optimized Quake for contemporary x86 processors.
youdon'tsay.avi
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>>108277878
I was agreeing with you, but now I see you are deranged.
>>
>>108277907
who told you that it was me? Voices in your head?
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>>108277909
The only voice in anyone's head is the one that told you to troon out.
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>>108277762
Wouldn't those optimizations involve binary operations or shifts as the mentally impaired OP said? The real hack was Abrash all along.
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>>108275560
sauce?
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>>108277956
bit shifts is an elementary school level of assembly programming
When Abrash was babysitting Carmack he didn't produce bullshit like Doom 3 lighting, or calculating triangulation of nurbs on the fly on cpu in Q3 (absolute wast of cpu cycles).

Carmack was also "abysitted" by Abrash before he mt him as he copied many things from his column in Dobb's.

Abrash's invovement deleyed "the clusterfuck phase" of Carmack into the '00s. If not him the music would stop playing during Quake 1 development already.
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>>108278058
Absolute slop-English - OK.
But why post it?
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>>108277175
>>108276545
His name was Bill not Becky :)
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>>108278058
>bit shifts is an elementary school level of assembly programming
Yeah, that's why there is an entire subchapter related to bit shifts and rotates in the Black Book.

>Carmack was also "abysitted" by Abrash before he mt him as he copied many things from his column in Dobb's.
A programmer uses knowledge gathered by others from a specialist magazine, save me niggerman.

>Abrash's invovement deleyed "the clusterfuck phase" of Carmack into the '00s. If not him the music would stop playing during Quake 1 development already.
Picrel.
>>
>>108278186
>Yeah, that's why there is an entire subchapter related to bit shifts and rotates in the Black Boo

Yes, it's addressed to n00bsthat never seen a pdf or printed version of any CPU documentation. Exactly the kind of people who because such a gap in education think that bit shifts are some arcane magick knowledge thatonly members of secret societies have access to.
>>
The most glaring example of Carmack’s "over-engineering" is his insistence on using Binary Space Partitioning (BSP) in DOOM. In a 2.5D environment—where maps are essentially 2D top-down layouts with height properties—BSP was a mathematical sledgehammer for a nut. Carmack sought a "perfect" sorting solution to ensure a zero-overdraw software renderer, but in doing so, he traded away the world's flexibility for a rigid, static structure.
While Carmack was wrestling with binary trees and pre-calculating "nodes" (which took hours on high-end workstations), others were proving that his "God-tier" solution was actually a bottleneck. Enter Randy Linden and Ken Silverman.

Linden’s port of DOOM to the Super Nintendo is a masterclass in superior engineering. Without access to Carmack’s C source code, Linden wrote the Reality Engine in pure 65816 Assembly. He ditched BSP entirely, realizing that for simple 2.5D geometry, Portal-based rendering and sector-sorting were vastly more efficient. Linden’s engine was a "cleaner" implementation because it respected the hardware's limits rather than trying to force an academic concept onto a 16-bit processor.

Similarly, Ken Silverman’s Build Engine (Duke Nukem 3D) made a "knight’s move" around Carmack’s design. By using sectors and portals, Silverman achieved what Carmack deemed "impossible" in the id Tech ecosystem: moving floors, sloped ceilings, and rooms-over-rooms (via portals). While Carmack’s BSP "castrated" the environment into a static tomb, the portal-based approach allowed for a dynamic, living world that actually ran faster on mid-range PCs.
>>
By the time Quake arrived, the sheer complexity of true 3D geometry meant that a pure BSP tree was no longer enough to maintain a high frame rate. The "God of Code" faced a crisis: the BSP tree, which he championed for its mathematical certainty, was drowning in its own overhead.
Instead of admitting that the "hacker" approach of dynamic portals (used by Ken Silverman and Randy Linden) was superior for architectural visibility, Carmack doubled down. He invented the PVS, a massive, pre-computed lookup table. Here is the dirty secret: PVS is just a static implementation of portals.

It took the lightweight, real-time logic of portals and crushed it into a massive, immutable database.
This was the ultimate engineering hypocrisy: Carmack refused to use dynamic portals because they were "unstable," so he forced the world to pre-calculate every possible portal view into a multi-megabyte file just to keep his "clean" BSP engine from collapsing.

The mask finally slipped with id Tech 4 (Doom 3). After years of insisting that BSP-PVS was the only way to achieve "professional" results, Carmack finally "saw the light"—or rather, he saw that he couldn't squeeze any more blood from the BSP stone.

Doom 3 moved to a Portal and Area system.
If a door (portal) was closed, the engine stopped rendering the adjacent room.
This was exactly what the "tech-illiterate" hackers had been doing since 1995.

Carmack spent ten years building a "divine" cathedral out of BSP blocks, only to realize that a simple system of rooms and doors was faster, more flexible, and didn't require a 24-hour pre-calculation phase. His status as a "Tech God" among the masses comes from the fact that he was the loudest voice in the room, but among the "doctors of code," he was the man who spent a decade trying to prove that a square wheel could be optimized if you just threw enough pre-computed lookup tables at it.
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>>108276495
thanks fren that explains why faglord OP did this >>108271979 I almost wasted time reading his garbage

Too bad tranny, you'll rot on a grave with your male name on it while Chadman will be remembered as the greatest gamedev of our time.
Read Masters of Doom instead anons :)
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You Will Never Be A Woman
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>>108271937
Men really live like this
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>>108276499
>>108276545
>>108277175
50%.
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>>108278628
>any CPU documentation.
current intel dev manual is nearly 6000 pages long nigger. no one is reading that shit, especially if they're on a deadline. it's a reference to double check shit you already know.

so yeah, he's reading more concise sources that deal exactly with what he wants. no kidding.
>>
>>108279514
>He doesn't imagine a holographic, full-colour image spinning on the wall
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>>108279514
based as hell, disregarded op entirely, thats ourguy right there
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>>108271937
>Carmack didn't "invent" 3D; he just stripped it of all mathematical sophistication so it could run on a toaster, sacrificing depth for raw, dumb speed.
Oh no, heaven forbid that games run well on hardware that people actually own.
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>>108281102
>>let's do 3D!
>cool, what games are we gonna do with it?
>>... ... ... a platformer?
>that's a bit threadbare innit?
>>yeah, but it's all we can do with the engine!!1!

>meanwhile real early 3D games be like picrel
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>>108282583
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>>108279773
>no one is reading THE * A S T O N I S H I N G * to BURGER BRAINS made of LARD amount of pages
kek, real world developers in fact do that regularly multiple times a year
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>>108281102
>Oh no, heaven forbid that games run well on hardware that people actually own.

true, to stop that from happening Carmack used BSP in Doom to choke CPU with graph traversal solving issue that no one else had - because no one else was dumb enough to implement raycasting on a grid instead of sectors. Carmack was wasting insane amount of time scanning trough empty grid fields in Wolfenstein. Instead of implementing obvious solution like using polygons to define room shapes he went with most computation heavy grid based "grid cells walking".

He could have came to his senses and use polygon, even rectangles, to speed up because when youare enclosed by room walls you already know where to look for intersection. Just like port to SNES (a console LESS powerful than a PC) did or like Ken Silverman did in Build or demoscene in their 3d demos.

Yes, Carmack was doing a sabotage of speed of own engines in fact. He was lucky hardware was increasing in comutation power fast enough to compensate his fuckups.

His BSP obsession was even dumber if we consider howgeometry of the era could have been divided to sectors manualy by mapper. And in fact in practice quake maos often were because John's Algorithm sucked so hard automated tool run into geometry leaks costantly so hiw was that solved? WAll, bounding volumes been added to editors. The solution that should be used instead of BSP been added ON TOP OF IT. xD

Did I also mention that his Quake BSP was 2D and not 3D? xD
Yes, you read that right, he was using 2D algorithm for 3D maps xDDDDD
>>
>>108271979
>Lady Havoc
Stopped reading here.
>>
Yes, you read that right. BSP was a solution he did not need for a problem he should not have in a first place.

I'm not kidding you - the BSP in doom made no sense the moment John decided to use them. They complicated the engine code for no gains whatsoever.
>>
>>108271944
Right, he admitted he got much of his information from SIGGRAPH. The thing his he was a rich kid so he could afford access to those papers. Access can go a long way.
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>>108274346
ESLGOD is wonned albeit
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>>108271937
Based
Carmack fanboys are insufferable midwits
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>>108283246
ye
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>>108282972
>Just like port to SNES (a console LESS powerful than a PC)

doom on super nes had the GSU-2 chip (21 mhz, 64kb cache, bitblt engine, framebuffers, fast multiply, ...)
yet the resolution/screen size, the textures and the framerate were atrocious.
>>
The thing I don’t like about Carmack is that he’s all quiet about the game RAGE.
They spent 5 years on that, showing off virtual texturing.
The end result was texture pop-in because of the constant streaming of texture pages, garbage texture quality because of heavy JPEG-XR compression, entirely baked lighting, game logic tied not tied to delta timing as well as being a horribly broken release on AMD GPUs. I remember taking a working driver back then and sharing it publicly on Dropbox and my account was disabled because of the heavy traffic on my free account.
>>
>>108283667
yes, because it was less powerful than a PC. Yet it did not need BSP to not have ovedraws, the sole reason why Carmack itroduced them was h feared to draw a pixel to a screen more than once. Simple check of what was already drawn was in the end enough. What is funny carmac did same check anyway. BUT ON TOP OF BSP traversal.
>>
>>108283859
Not to mention that doom could have had sloped walls and floor,mirrors (at zero extra cost), volumeteric fog (both variable in densite in different rooms but also gradual fog dense at floor etc) etc. Instead we get doom with flat ceilings and floors.
>>
>>108271937
redit libsharts will deconstruct anything except DEI hires
>>
I'll hand it to OP I thought this AI ass hit piece would go nowhere but clearly he was onto something shitting on Carmack and AI helped him achieve his goal
>>
>>108283944
I've been saying Carmack was a miserable autist for months now. Anyone who's ever looked at the Doom Zone Allocator could've made that determination.
>>
Literally fucking Carmack coding Shadowcaster engine for Raven proved Carmack to be wrong about BSP.

But he was too dumb to notice that he was still traversing empty grid fields like a blind mouse looking for walls while engine knew well enough where walls are but Carmack for some unknown reasons decided to not make use of that knowledge and recalculate DDO step on empty grid instead of INSTANTLY calculating intersctions based on players position INSIDE a polygon.

DDO may have sense in UNKNOWN TERRAIN, but when you KNOW WHERE WALLS ARE (because the MAP is the INFO WHERE WALLS ARE) it's PLAIN FUCKING STUPID to PRETEND YOU DON'T.

Yes, polygons are the key to speedup, BSP had polygons. But the problem is BSP had way too many polygons than needed. Partitioning solved issues that DOES NOT HAPPEN in RAYCASTING with portals. It created overhead of traversing the graph where multiple leaves were part of same room even if you were not lookig at them. Simplest and dumbest solution - make your room a polygon and check intersections with lines within your field of view beats BSP by an order of magnitude.

Fucking system Shock around Doom time and Ultima Underworld begfore Doom already demoed that approach.

Ken Silverman proved additionally than even a teenager writing abbyssymall spaghetti code can make it run smooth despite shitty codbebase IN HIGHER RESOLUTION while having dynamic environment (basically moving "keyholeas" aka "portals" on the surface of walls of polygonal rooms). Imagine the speed if Ken was actually able to code efficiently.
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>>108283859
super nes doom is relying on BSP iirc
>>
>>108284049
says who?
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>>108284049
Not in the way Carmack used BSP. He de facto modified it into a form where you don't have to traverse the graph. It was a gymnastics that made it work like a portal based renderer. You were loading a sector info and then raycasting like in a portal based aproach. You can use carmack's BSP graphs to render stuff in a portal manner, you are just going to do unnecessary steps when larger polygonal enclosed room is built from many triangles.

Or in other words - BSP is way too fragmented than needed for portal rendering. Yet you still can use it to draw in a portal way, just your portal would be the size of whole "wall"

for example in bsp you have
+-/+
+/-+

Two triangles - you need 12 (6 [x,y] points) parameters to store that

where in portal system you only need
+--+
+--+

4 parameteres (2 points) if you decide to store ony rectangles or 8 parameters (4 points) if you want any arbitrary shape mae from 4 lines

You can use both forms to render in "a portal way" just the 2nd form would result in less checks for collisions of "line of sight" against walls.
>>
>>108284166
What is hilarious as fuck that Carmack used BSP for the 1st time during porting Wolf3D to SNES. Why? Because his approach from the PC - namely checking each grid in ront of player for presence of a wall chocked SNES.

Heavens only know why Carmack didn't realize that he would get a speedup from merging his grid fields into larger empty areas alone and base raycasting on such structure.

If he did he woul realize that there is ZERO need for graph traversal in Doom engine. Nill. NULL. NADA. None.
>>
For these who still don't get it on a grid raycasting looks this way:
step 1: calculate step x and y lengths so ray intersects with a nearest grid of map
step 2: do a step and check if there is a wall on that grid location
step 3: no wall? calculate next step - literally back to step 1 and repeat until you hit a wall

Repeat for each column of screen. If room has large empty space this would take ages because you are visiting whole empty space cell by cell.


In polygonal rooms:
step 1: calculate distance from your position to the nearest wall

Congratulations! You know how far away from wall you are! IN ONE EASY STEP! You don't need to care how large the room is.

Now draw a line on screen that corresponds to the height of the wall so you have some perspective. Fast as fuck and map takes LESS RAM. Not to mention it fits way better in cache

If you implement variable heights of floor just draw uer and lower fragments of the scene and don't draw anything inside the hole until you calculate intersection with wall of another room behind the portal.

Repeat as long as you wish or as lon there is any space on screen left to draw (if you "painted" whole column already you can stop giving a fuck about further intersections)

Basically what Ulitima Undeground, System Shock, Build engine did.

Do you see "the genius of John Carmack" now?
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>>108284085
the dev himself
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>>108284299
ah yes, the way I xplained. He used data from BSP. He was not traversing the graph. The hierarchy of tree was not used. Just data about polygons.
>>
The biggest WTF moment comes when you realize that BSP was a data structure for out-of-core memory - namely for loading HUGE chunks of segmented data from hard disk, only few leaves were supposed to fill good portion of RAM while whole graph was orders of magnitude larger than RAM and stored on disk.

Carmack did exact opposite - he fit it in RAM for no reason and made maps take larger amount of memory than really needed bot for rendering and storing them even on disc.

As a bonus modders and mappers were wasting their time for log hours of BSP generation during the "map compilation phase" (algorithmic division of map's geometry into BSP graph).

It's a fucking farce and comedy gold to consider that man some sort of prodigy unless you find him to be a genius at solving problems he himself created for no good reason other than own stubbornness.

And the even better part is that BSP as presented in paper WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PAIRED WITH PAINTER ALGORITHM. Not to AVOID PAINTER. The part that avoided painter in Doom was clippng buffer (basically a data segment representing pixels of each collumn where you marked each pixel after drawing to not draw again in same place). NOT THE BSP.
>>
>>108271937
>Furthermore, Euclid did not invent Geometry
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>>108284782
You are so wise. Like a miniature Buddah covered with hair.
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>>108282860
This ran like shit compared to Doom.
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>>108285370
Did it? Have you ever seen it running on the same machine running exactly same map? Of course that map would be castrated of features that UU was capable of rendering and Doom was not.
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>>108285392
Not to mention that Ultima had physics. And doom didn't bother to implement jumping. Guess why.
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>>108285370
Wolfenstein 3D runs like blaze on 2001 laptop. But 2001 laptop would choke and start fuming the moment you try running Crysis on it. Should Crysis have been a grid based raycaster instead?
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>>108285392
>Have you ever seen it running on the same machine running exactly same map?
Have you? How did it fair?
>>
>>108285490
UUW came out before Doom.
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>>108284586
>And the even better part is that BSP as presented in paper WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PAIRED WITH PAINTER ALGORITHM.

doom is rendered front to back. this is explained here:

https://twobithistory.org/2019/11/06/doom-bsp.html

""
Carmack put a spin on the BSP tree algorithm outlined in the 1980 paper, because once Doom is started and the BSP tree for the current level is read into memory, the renderer uses the BSP tree to draw objects front-to-back rather than back-to-front. In the 1980 paper, Fuchs, Kedem, and Naylor show how a BSP tree can be used to implement the back-to-front painter’s algorithm, but the painter’s algorithm involves a lot of over-drawing that would have been expensive on an IBM-compatible PC. So the Doom renderer instead starts with the geometry closer to the player, draws that first, then draws the geometry farther away. This reverse ordering is easy to achieve using a BSP tree, since you can just make the opposite traversal decision at each node in the tree. To ensure that the farther-away geometry is not drawn over the closer geometry, the Doom renderer uses a kind of implicit z-buffer that provides much of the benefit of a z-buffer with a much smaller memory footprint.
""

One of carmack major talents was to find those optimization rooms while putting theory into practice.
>>
>>108285510
>doom is rendered front to back.
Yes, not a single person here denied that.

Portals based raycasters like Ultima Undeground, Jedi Engine, Build engine are rendered from front to back too. Without any BSP grahs.

>One of carmack major talents was to find those optimization rooms while putting theory into practice.

And that is illustrated by what? Certainly not by his BSP usage or by his approach to raycasting in Wolfenstein 3D where he was wasting time by checking empty cells in a 2D grid.
>>
>>108271937
I asked Grok for a validity check on some of your claims:

DarkPlaces engine (by "Lady Havoc") fixed hardcoded limits, logic errors, and "shambles" in Carmack's Quake code.
Assessment: Partially Valid. DarkPlaces (by Forest "LordHavoc" Hale) is a community fork improving Quake's engine for modern hardware, fixing bugs and adding features like better lighting. However, these were enhancements, not fixes for "shambles"—Quake's code was functional and influential. Hale is male, not female as implied in thread.

It's right there in black and white. Checkmate trannies.
>>
>>108271937
>Carmack didn't "invent" 3D; he just stripped it of all mathematical sophistication so it could run on a toaster, sacrificing depth for raw, dumb speed.
It's called optimization - something modern game developers should learn how to do
>>
>>108287150
So in other words Carmack sucks. Notice how no one else used BSP for 3d engines other than first 3 quakes and first Unrea (but author ixed it with portal approach and later abandoned BSP for good). Everyone else went for portals because they are the 1st approach that actually functioning brain thinks about.

WHOLE FUCKING EUROPE FROM WESTERN TO EASTERN WAS DOING PORTALS NOT BSP GRAPHS BACK IN THE 90S.

And their engines were blazing fast and could handled rendering of both huge open areas and enclosed spaces both in software and hardware rendering modes.

*drops mic*
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>>108287201
I certainly hope thy don't learn it from Carmack.
>>
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There is a whole book about doom internals available for free here: https://fabiensanglard.net/gebbdoom/index.html

Much more interesting to read than op inane ranting.
>>
>>108271937
>The gaming industry’s history is haunted by the hagiography of John Carmack—a myth built by tech-illiterate journalists who mistook a socially stunted obsessive for a mathematical messiah. In reality, Carmack wasn’t a pioneer of elegant science; he was a guerilla "optimizer" whose entire "genius" consisted of being the only one in the room willing to grind 14 hours a day to prove that a blunt axe can, in fact, shape a log if you hit it hard enough.
Already this is bullshit and I'm not reading the rest.

Yes, technology is propelled by people who study hard and find novel solutions to difficult problems.

What the fuck else is it trying to say other than "IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME!!! :^(" I'll maybe ask chatGPT to summarize it but considering that it starts off with a lie, I don't need to read anything else.

>>108271944
>The most pathetic part of the Carmack cult is his fanboys "circle-jerking" over algorithms they think he invented. To this day, they credit him with the creation of Binary Space Partitioning (BSP), Z-buffering, and surface caching.
Carmack is literally the first person who gave credit to all these algorithms that he took from research papers at the time. He gives credit in all of his dissertations on the topic. He even gave credit for the Fast Laplace Transform and the Fast Inverse Square algorithms that are attributed to him, when he gave interviews on them. Here:
https://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/15/

Now, you won't fucking read it, but the gist of it is that Carmack NEVER claimed credit for these algorithms. When asked, he immediately said that Greg made it in a paper and he just used what he wrote with some modifications. So, who is "Stealing credit" here? The person who gave credit? Nah, whoever wrote this (Or whatever LLM you took this from) is just an illiterate asshole.
>>
>>108275674
>a quick question, mr. carcuck, how many billions of dollars did your "VR" department at facebook lose again?
The one he left because Zuckercuck kept trying to push the Metaverse retardation that everyone told him was a bad idea? About 100 billion. The Quest department he worked in is the only department at Facebook that made any money and the Quest 3 is the best VR headset on the market today. But the aging lizard still runs the company, so of course it didn't make money.
>>
>>108287311
>>108287353
Interesting posts, but it has nothing to do with what OP wrote.
>>
>>108278910
>Similarly, Ken Silverman’s Build Engine (Duke Nukem 3D) made a "knight’s move" around Carmack’s design. By using sectors and portals, Silverman achieved what Carmack deemed "impossible" in the id Tech ecosystem

Silverman moved to sectors after Carmack told him to do so.
>>
>>108287573
oh sweet irony
>>
ok but doom works fine on my machine
>>
>>108288336
so does Ultima Undeground
>>
How do i focus for 12 hours? I feel exhausted after 30 minutes of work.
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>>108287441
>what OP wrote
Feed his bullshit to ai. Lets see what the big bro thinks about it.
>>
>>108276964
One of the Id guys from back then recently poasted on twatter the story of the Doom netcode - apparently they'd contracted some guy in caliwali to write it for $20k but he turned out to be a scammer so Carmack kludged together what he could with no prior experience at network programming.
They also didn't think that networked multiplayer would be a thing because it had never taken off in other games prior to then.
>>
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>>108271937
>DarkPlaces engine
Seems like tranny seething to me. Lord Faggot, sorry I mean Lord Havoc will never be a woman and neither will you!
>>
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>>108271990
>Carmack wrote code for Carmack, not for a team.
Absolutely based. You have convinced me, Carmack is indeed my hero and the God of Code.
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>>108292032
Who can't code efficiently
>>
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>>108271937
The man put together an engine and a scripting language for it. Good for him.
>>
>>108282583
based future cop poster
using 'picrel' as a noun means you're still a fag though
>>
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I am now a programmer because of john carmack. Thank you, John.
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>>108281036
same guy who boughted a ferrari on his first paycheck
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>>108271937
>he wasn't a genius
>he wasn't the first
>blah blah blah

You neckbeards think achievement needs to stop at sheer genius and nothing else, I know so many people smarter than myself that are failures by just about any measure because they think just being the smartest guy in the room is enough but bitch and moan all day about how people dumber than them are more successful.

>Carmack didn't "invent" 3D; he just stripped it of all mathematical sophistication so it could run on a toaster, sacrificing depth for raw, dumb speed.

This is the most tone-deaf statement of the only post of yours I bothered to read.

Did Ford invent the the internal combustion engine? No. Did he find out how to do it so that it was far more efficient and affordable for everyone? Yes. Is he also the most recognized figure in automotive history? Yes.
>>
>>108293236
>that are failures by just about any measure
Wrong. They simply decided not to be taken advantage of for peanuts.
>>
I love how "Carmack is da best" fanboys have no arguments of technical nature to defend their god.
>>
>>108293236
The problem is that Carmack did the opposite of wat Ford did. He made rendering in doom LESS efficient by putting BSP into engine. That's why his rendering method was not only slower than portal approach would be, he made it also less capable as portal raytracer would draw slopped floors, walls and ceilings. He solved nothing by using BSP and lost computing power and rendering capabilities.

Ken Silvermann ate him at the age of 19 implementing Build Engine with one of the most spaghetti codebase seen in commercial engines.

John knew that build's interactivity ate his BSPs for breakfast. Yet he was still doing BSP during Doom 3 development.....
>>
>>108293442
excuse me who the fuck are you?
>>
>>108293543
a person whose arguments you are unable to refute on factual and technical level
>>
>>108293587
it's a waste of time because you're clearly a fucking moron. Delete ur account
>>
>>108293603
no, it's a waste of time because BSP is a waste of processing power, electricity and CPU cycles

you know deep in your mind that BSP + rendering = slowdown and no gains, but you are to deeply indulged in Church of Worshiping Carmack As A God Of Code to admit it in front of yourself, let alone others
>>
>>108293635
you're projecting log off and touch grass it's embarrassing
>>
>>108293684
I still here no techical arguments from you, yet you have "tim to waste" writing ad personam without any argumentation
>>
>>108293330
>Wrong. They simply decided not to be taken advantage of for peanuts.
lol that's rich, sounds like they're super l33t hax0rz living in their mom's basement eating tendies

>decided not to be taken advantage
What a massive cope and a cowardly position to excuse someone for a lack of agency while simultaneously professing what groundbreaking genius is at play here.

If you aren't the one trying to take advantage of something then you're watching opportunity go by, eventually you get some butthurt zoomer posting on Laotian falconry boards about how the first successful guy in the field really shouldn't have been just cause he took advantage of the opportunity and they didn't

>>108293635
Sorry, I can't argue the nuance of id Tech 1 vs Build, but even assuming you're right, it was not enough to matter. Fact is that technological innovation and prowess is just one of many parts when it comes to it.

You can take this argument to any craft; talent alone is not the sole measure of legacy, how many dorks are crying about Nikola Tesla constantly? Do you have any idea how simple and not-ground-breaking AC/DC is with their music? Yeah, but you know who they are, you know their songs. Because people can't see the forest for the trees

That's not to say it makes up for it, to make the point: Carmack is famous for executing a good blend at a good time and got recognized for it first. Simple as.
>>
>>108294706
Wow, that's a lot of cope.
>not gonna read it though, and there's nothing you can do about it



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