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give me a single good reason for why I shouldn't use it that doesn't involve syntax or the ugly code that a mediocre programmer wrote one day
>>
>>108364365
But why should you use it?
>>
>>108364575
because I need to write scripts?
>>
>>108364365
it sucks? has weird default behavior that's dangerous? I think it only recently got parameters for subroutines. the shitty soup of $scalar @array %map and their meaningless meanings. still have confusing deref syntax as well.

it is just a shit language. I can't fathom how perl won out over tcl sometimes, but maybe that's an incorrect statement because Tcl is still embedded in critical Siemens software and Xilinx shit.
>>
>>108364365
It works and has demonstrably worked well for over 25 years
>>
>>108364768
>it is just a shit language.
It's not a language it is a script you fell at the first hurdle
>>
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because there are better languages, like sed
>>
>>108364768
>has weird default behavior that's dangerous?
like what?

>I think it only recently got parameters for subroutines.
this has never been a problem for nobody ever that is actually using perl
sub func($param1, $param2) {
}

vs
sub func {
my ($param1, $param2) = @_;
}


- easily copy all the arguments into an array
- have a really convenient way to have vararg
- have named parameters
- have both positional and named parameters
this is why it has been like that for so long

>I think it only recently got parameters for subroutines. the shitty soup of $scalar @array %map and their meaningless meanings. still have confusing deref syntax as well.
I said no syntax argument. Now I know that you never used it for more than 2 weeks.
>>
>>108364735
Lua?
>>
>>108365127
No way. There isn't a single thing I like about Lua except for its implementations.
>>
>>108365182
It's pretty performative and quick to learn
>>
>>108364768
skill issue

The sub signatures are kind of too new to be used universally, and prototypes (the old thing) are retarded.
The sigils are meaningful. @ is a list context. $ is a scalar context. % is a hash context. & is sub context. * is a glob.
The map is just a list with key value pairs interleaved.
You can "cast" a type by referring to it in a different context.
References are scalar, it's like a pointer to referential (object) type.
It's needed, because basically you can't aggregate non-scalars in collections.
When you use () syntax for lists, you are concatenating things into one list.
If you want to actually store list inside a list/hash you need a scalar -> a reference.
You don't need references to scalars, because scalars are already scalars.
Subs arguments are just a list. It makes sense, it's like program's ARGV equivalent for the function.
Dereference syntax is not "confusing". You are referencing a variable in that particular context.
If the variable is a ref that contains a list and you want a list, you use @ to dereference it.
If the ref is a hash, you use a % to dereference it. There is nothing confusing about it.
The perl objects are actually a particular context's binding to the name.
When you declare a "type" you are just binding that variable to the name in that particular context.
That might be the confusing part, because you can reuse the name for another context.
In that case it's allocating an object in that particular slot (of the *glob) under that name.
my $foo = "bar";
my @foo = ($foo, 1, 2, 3);
my @bar = ($foo, \@foo, [4, 5, 6], 7, 8, 9);

print "just foo: $foo\n";

print "foo list: ( ";
for (@foo) { print " $_"; }
print " )\n";

print "bar list: ( ";
for (@bar) {
if (ref($_) eq "ARRAY") {
print " ( ";
for my $e (@{$_}) {
print " $e";
}
print " ) ";
} else { print " $_" };
}
print " )\n";

print "bar elements as scalars (refs): ( ";
for (@bar) { print " $_"; }
print " )\n";
>>
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ooke, ama perlmaxxxing now.. have to generate those header files for openssl project..

perl won bros :|
>>
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>>108365349
coincedence
>>
c go perl
>>
>>108364365
If you're going to pick a scripting language that's no longer the tip top in popularity, just go with Ruby. It's like Perl but with sexier syntax, and benefited directly from the lessons learned in the first wave of decent REPLs, virtual environments, and MVC/MVVM frameworks.
>>
Does anyone use Raku?
>>
shrinking community means that you'll have less libraries for bleeding edge stuff
>>
>>108366303
I tried it for a while and it was pleasant but in the end I didn't find it enough of an improvement to switch. It's cleaner yeah, but apart from that? Too many methods to remember to do basic data structure and string manipulation. Too annoying to have to convert strings, numbers and even arrays all the time. Too many types of lambdas, never knew which too use or why there were 4? of them. The thing I liked the most about Ruby was its standard library, that was an improvement.

>>108366477
I played with it but the startup time is too slow and the regex engine is a pile of shit, WAY too slow. It's not even a real regex engine with a specialized VM, regexes are compiled down to continuations and it's slow as fuck.
>>
perl
>>
It's honestly pretty based.
https://perldoc.perl.org/functions/die
>>
I'm considering learning a new language and thought of perl too. It seems like one of those reliable older languages that is surprisingly good for certain usecases.
>>
>>108366477
>>108366625
> raku
Raku (perl6) as a language is amazing. It’s perhaps the most powerful language I’ve ever used. It’s not quite as concise as APL, but it’s way up there.

As the other poster said the performance is abysmal and probably unfixable. There’s also a steep learning curve even moving from Perl5 to Raku.

Might be useful in situations where you run a raku parser and connect to it as a server to run code like emacs(client).

If you’re only concern is data hacking, quick hacks, testing algorithms, or writing test drivers and data, and you want to basically cheat, get good at Raku and you will be a 10x developer. You just might not want it in prod.
>>
>>108366477
>>108366625
Raku is the /pol/ of the programming languages: the containment zone for the geeks that wanted to modify Perl 5 and kept pushing for improvements.

It is slow because it is pure feature bloat, in a constant state of beta development. Strings in general, not just regexes, are slow as fuck. And it has support for Junctions that are just a recipe for exponential complexity

The authors of Raku hope that one day quantum computers will make their language viable. It is like with the Jews and their messiah! The Jews kill kids because they think they are going to be saved, the Raku programmers make their language slow because quantum mechanics will solve exponential complexity in linear time
>>
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>>108364365
ignore the haters, perl5 is still the best language ever made
>>
I love Perl, and I programmed that for years. Then I had to switch to python because young people wouldn’t learn Perl and I had to work with them. I think they all got brainwashed.

Now, young people program in ChatGPT. And I’m switching to ChatGPT too. What I do is to prompt the AI, copy its output and paste it in my code. Work amazingly. Considering that ChatGPT is much better at python then Perl, I think that Perl is obsolete
>>
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I only like Perl for the drama.
>>
>>108366303
Ruby is not C-like syntax.

--
i would say go PHP/JS (most close to C syntax) but any of those runtimes are incomprehensible bloatware that wasnt intended for general purpose.
>>
>>108368179
>/pol/
>like with the Jews
Io think you meant “like with the Epstenites”. /pol/ is against the regular Jew, it’s an Epstenite discussion board
>>
>>108365283
The symbol soup provides literally zero value and precisely why no language replicates it that doesn't get relentlessly mocked. You rarely only see it in shells because of argument spreading behavior. Stop being a fucking faggot. You only need $
>>
>>108368873
>symbol soup
That isn't even its final form!
>>
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>>108364365
It's all been abandoned.
>>
bum[pp
>>
>>108364365
How many languages routinely have "or die" as part of program code? Completely metal.
>>
It's unironically a really nice pattern, since it's equivalent to:
if (!ok) {
throw;
}

except that it fits in a single line.
>>
>>108370377
>>108370817
>>
>>108365283
This was a good post. All substance. Helped make some of these concepts click for me. Thanks.
>>
>>108365283
>The map is just a list with key value pairs interleaved.
>just a list
This is worth highlighting. In Perl, a hash is initialized exactly like a list.
Because '=>' is an alias for ',' there is no way to ensure that the hash is going to be initialized correctly:
#!/usr/bin/perl

sub finland {
return "Finnish", "Swedish"
}
my %langs = (
England => 'English',
Finland => finland(),
France => 'French',
Spain => 'Spanish'
);

for(keys %langs){
print("Official Language of $_ is $langs{$_}\n");
}


This will print:
Official Language of French is Spain
Official Language of England is English
Official Language of Swedish is France
Official Language of Spanish is
Official Language of Finland is Finnish


It's just a deeply flawed language.
>>
>>108368515
>The current version of Perl is between 5.6.1 and 5.7.1
What? Lol

Anyway, just use Common Lisp
>>
if perl is so good, then why Linux init systemd? is binary heiroglyphs better than perl?
>>
>>108373343
The Perl community have this weird fixation with only using Perl as shipped with the OS. They did not develop tooling (or a culture) for using independent Perl builds for different projects.
To them, the "latest Perl" is the union of all Perl versions that are offered as part of current OSes (Linux distributions, *BSDs, MacOS, etc.).
Other communities prefer a separation between the development environment and the OS, but in Perl it is development_Perl == deployment_Perl == OS_Perl, and if you need a different version of Perl then you install a different version of the OS.
Many of the high ranking Perl maintainers were (are?) religiously opposed to the idea of parallel Perl installations, this was one of the main reasons why Perl 7 didn't pan out – they couldn't accept the perl7/perl5 naming for the interpreters, it had to be just one and it had to be `perl`.
>>
>>108373534
>They did not develop tooling (or a culture) for using independent Perl builds for different projects.
What would be the point of that? Why the fuck would you want several incompatibles languages/interpreter versions? Are you subject to Python mental illness?
>>
>>108373927
Allegedly it can make installation more reproducible and transferrable to other systems, see also Docker. In practice, you end up trying to make deployment work, as if you don't have more problems already.
>>
>>108364575
It's resistant to bit rot.
>>
>>108370377
It also has bless.
>>
>>108364768
it's basically the same as ruby except 100% of the code you encounter is completely unreadable, even what you wrote yesterday becomes basically indecipherable. if you aren't Perl::Criticmaxxing everything is gonna come out basically retarded.
>>
>>108375593
People bitched and moaned about Perl's readability but then copied its regexps.
>>
>>108375658
do you have a better idea?
>>
>>108364575
C syntax
>>
>>108373357
systemd, as you probably know already anyways, does a whole lot more than init. since I'm guessing you're just being facetious, yes, because fucktarded system administrators would quietly modify init and someone else would be oblivious, change the init (or update it) without thinking twice, and break everything. the person who edited the init by hand instead of using unit files or whatever would then either be gone or completely irate because he's a midwit who didn't even create a backup file of his changes, let alone a patch or something that could be ported to the newest init version. obviously there's reasons to use a script for init and most people doing this are most likely (read: basically everyone) using shell for that for obvious reasons, which to luddites or script kiddies like /g/ would be just because of little other than running programs and sourcing variables.
>>
>>108370377
And having to use eval {} for exception handling is backwards.
>>
>>108373202
doing retarded things regardless of language is bad practice
you can find flaws in every language
you are making a hash of uneven number of elements so obviously it's wrong thing to do
if you added "use strict" and "use warnings" which is what everyone tells people to do you would get a warning saying exactly this
javascript has more bad things and there is no pragma that would tell you about your retarded code unless you use a different language like typescript
>>
>>108377578
>you can find flaws in every language
Not this bad, you can't.
>if you added some pragmas
pic related
>>
>>108377177
it's just syntax retard, eval {block} doesn't eval the code inside the block, only eval "string" does
>>
>>108377663
>>108377663
nta but,

>Not this bad, you can't.
perl's implicit conversions are mighty fine, JS on the other hand is famously broken

>pic related
>use utf8
only useful if you non ascii character in your script/module
>use open q(:std :utf8)
in my experience it's harmful, better check the data you're getting and do the conversion yourself if needed
>use feature qw(signatures)
>no warnings qw(experimental::signatures)
amateur newfag detected
>>
>>108373202
skill issue
https://perldoc.perl.org/perlsub
>>
nobody is stopping you from writing perl. few of your coworkers will be able to work on your scripts though. managers that have a clue will see that as a risk and bottleneck, but if you don't have any of those, godspeed
>>
>>108377768
>it's just syntax
Did anyone claim otherwise?

>>108377844
>you're doing it wrong
Tell this to the Perl maintainers: https://www.perl.com/article/announcing-perl-7/
you have been fucking owned, dumb fuck
>>
>>108378072
>Did anyone claim otherwise?
Then what was your point?

>Tell this to the Perl maintainers
>brian dick foy
Fine, then concerning the signatures, it's an attempt to appeal to amateur newfags.
Concerning utf8 my point remains because the UTF8 flag is broken, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmTeXcEixEg
>>
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>>108378148
>the UTF8 flag is broken
Perl is broken.
>>
>>108364365
Perl flattens lists by default.
>>108364918
Sorry, but saying "no syntax arguments" is cheap when dealing with perl, because perl is abnormally invested in solving problems using syntax. Problems that other languages delegate to libraries, perl does with syntax. This means its syntax choices have greater implications than for most languages. It gets really hard to talk about perl shit without syntax coming up. Yes, the variable context shit matters, because it's superfluous complexity. It's something you always have to care about and hold in your head.

Yes, reference syntax matters because I'd rather not have to fuss with what is effectively pointer syntax in a high-level scripting language.

I won't tell you not to use perl. I still support plenty of perl programs, it's fine. Plenty of perl diehards will never change. But I wouldn't voluntarily use perl over a variety of other languages, and its syntax is a major reason for that.
>>
>>108378548
>Perl is broken.
Your picture is about Perl 6 though.

IMO the biggest flaw of both Perl 5 and Perl 6 is the complete disrespect for their implementation.
All the "language designers" that botch their backends or leave it to someone else get what they deserve, which is a slow unreliable and unusable broken language.
That mistake still continues to be made.
>>
>>108378750
I said that to force anons to talk about semantics and Perl's semantics are not that bad compared to Ruby, Python, etc..

I'm not saying that syntax doesn't matter, it does. But all the critics of Perl's syntax are unfair, they criticize the bad withouth acknowledging the good and Perl's syntax DOES have good parts. List processing feels amazing and you couldn't have that without sigils (which you get used to):
@lines = map { s/A/B/r } grep { /somehting/ } @lines;


>Perl flattens lists by default.
only @array = (...), not $array = [...]

>the variable context shit matters, because it's superfluous complexity
Fair, but it's not really about syntax, and there is "variable context". Sigils have nothing to do with context, like the poster above says.

>I'd rather not have to fuss with what is effectively pointer syntax in a high-level scripting language.
It's fair to criticize the deference syntax, which is a mess partly due to the different sigils (you wouldn't need to use '->' @var and %var didn't exist), but concerning the semantics of reference/dereference no, it's essential in any language that has mutability. Low/high level is irrelevant.
>>
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>>108375721
a very strange explanation, meaning

> the binary retardation (systemd) is actually a fool protection

so GNUnix users are mostly fools who modify their system registry that causes the blue screen of.. oh oh, i confused systems a bit, hehehe. i cannot accept that answer..

the actual luddites are those who write binary/compiled "programs" where the runtime is the already a proven answer. though, seems its never the perl runtime, so my Q stays the same >>108373357 why its bash, zash, mash, C++, crust, trust but not perl?
>>
>>108378869
>and there is "variable context
*there is no "variable context
>>
>>108364365
Is that the Silk Road playbook?
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wJNPOs-Q20&t=108
>>
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>www.nntp.perl.org is down again
Fix it you lazy fucks!
>>
>>108380832
perlmonks is also broken, I need to had "bare/" to URLs otherwise I get:
>prohibited
>You don't have permission to access this resource.

https://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=45213
https://www.perlmonks.org/bare/?node_id=45213
>>
>had
*add
>>
>>https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.meta/2001/02/msg638.html
>> Besides, you only need to design if you're building one of those Cathedral
>> thingies, and we all know how bad those are. (If you need to reach higher,
>> the correct method is, of course, to add another layer of tents on top of
>> the previous one)

>The obvious and cutting rejoinder for me to make would be:
> "Hey. If I believed this, I'd still be writing Perl."
ESR was a visionary, in the literal sense.
>>
I love perl. I still use it in a Fortune 500 when I can.
The only thing python does better is include most useful modules by default. Perl's default is pretty sparse.
>>
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>>108381646
based signature
>>
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>>108378148
>88 minute video
Looks interesting, will watch.
>brian
What's wrong with him, apart from the retarded way he writes his name?
The guy seems to be carrying the Perl 5 marketing in normie spaces by himself.
Too bad he resigned from his spokesdroid role for Perl 6.
https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.meta/2001/02/msg647.html
>>
>>108364735
Just as an LLM to do it for you lmao
>>
>>108383385
>Looks interesting, will watch.
It is actually, it's also entertaining. I might have watched this video 3 times.

>What's wrong with him, apart from the retarded way he writes his name?
I don't know, I've seen his name many time while reading about perl stuff and I've decided that he's a morron.

If you like reading about perl 6 stuff, check this out: https://github.com/Raku/IRC-logs
I searched for keywords relating to regexes and parsing and found a few interesting discussions.
There are a few conversations in there about new advanced regex engine features that came into perl 5.8?/5.10?.
While searching for information about the grammar engine and why it has the semantics that is has concerning the LTM (longest token matching). Larry Wall said that one of the goal behind the design was "to make lexers semi-obsolete" or something. and that's one more reason for why the regex/grammar engine is such garbabe. Not only its implementation is retarded but so are its design goals and semantics.
>>
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>>108383869
Thanks for the logs, too bad they don't cover the early '00s.
I enjoy studying the clusterfuck that is Perl (especially 6) and how it got to be so bad. The characters involved are definitely the biggest factor.
>>
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>>108364365
It's not Pearl.
>>
>>108384307
>too bad they don't cover the early '00s.
Yep, it doesn't go that far back. But I think that you could obtain them by asking directly to people that were involved back then, plenty of people must have the logs locally. I'm not sure that the people are currently on the IRC channels would have them but they would know who is likely to have them.

In terms of documents, there are still plently to be found. I have searched and downloaded so many of them, I could compile a list of links if you're interested, or put the important ones in a zip file and upload it. Most of them stuff would be after 2004-2006 though. Before that I can remember only of a few PDFs of Cozen and Conway and problabaly a few articles/blogs.

I'm not interested in people particularly but they are indeed a good handle to find a lot of information/documents. I'm rather interested in the PLT/language frontend design itself stuff and implementations. The last time I got into this I enjoyed reading technical documentation/design documents about Parrot, of which the site is still up.

>I enjoy studying the clusterfuck that is Perl (especially 6) and how it got to be so bad.
This does not answer that question, but from everything I've read, I would say that the language features (putting aside the implementations) that retrospectively had the biggest impact and put the biggest constraints on what it became are: the regex/grammar engine, OOP and later the metaobject protocol/metamodel, continuations (I don't really know if they were added to the design for what they are or if it was to implement regexes, lazy lists, iterators, exceptions, ...), and later concurrency.

Things like unicode, junctions, metaoperators are kind of independent features, they don't really constraint the language or the VM.
>>
>>108384948
>people that were involved back then
It was 25 years ago, most people are retired/dead/checked out.
>list of links if you're interested, or [...] a zip file
Yes, please!
>language frontend design itself
There was this thing called Topaz, a Perl implementation in C++ from Chip Salzenberg that (as expected) went nowhere:
https://www.perl.com/pub/1999/09/topaz.html/
https://sourceforge.net/projects/topaz/files/topaz/
>Parrot
The project was poorly managed, from what I read. It stood no chance.
http://whiteknight.github.io/2015/01/15/parrottheend.html
>>
>>108364365
>It's not *le* popular language
>Not enough libraries
>>
>>108382003
ESR is a sex pest.
>>
>>108387164
>Yes, please!
Alright I'm going to rack what I have. If ever the thread dies I'll dump this in the Lisp General.

>https://www.perl.com/pub/1999/09/topaz.html/
>https://sourceforge.net/projects/topaz/files/topaz/
No wonder it went nowhere, he was not focused on the core issues. What needed to be done was to rewrite all the core data structures: AST, bytecode and the VM for it, perl's boxed values and rewrite everything around that.
>The project was poorly managed, from what I read. It stood no chance.
exactly
>>
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>>108389748
>AST
I think was simply not available to him. Perl never had an AST, because the language does not have an abstract design: "Perl" is whatever perl can parse.
Maybe this also applies to Perl6.
https://web.archive.org/web/2020/https://perlmonks.org/?node_id=663393 (especially the comments)
https://web.archive.org/web/2020/http://www.jeffreykegler.com/Home/perl-and-undecidability
>>
>>108390797
>Perl never had an AST, because the language does not have an abstract design: "Perl" is whatever perl can parse.
Sure, parsing can depend on previously declared functions and whatnot, it can depedend on what's in the symbol table. Perl doesn't have a single parsing phase followed by a single compilation phase and single run phase. All of those are interleaved, but wether or not the parsing phases parse everything or not, the parsing phases still produce an AST and that AST is still the input of the compiler (phase).

But the other thing is that perl doesn't generate bytecode and instead the compiler link the AST/OP nodes together (and AST nodes are fat as fuck) in a postfix manner and then that ugly thing is tree-walked interpreted, except not really because the nodes have been linked by the compiler into a postfix-order already. Even with the interleaving of parsing and execution phases, perl could still generate a nice and clean bytecode. You would have parsing interleaved with bytecode interpretation, instead of parsing interleaved with "tree walk" interpretation.

It's not like "OP tree" is the logical solution to the way the perl's evaluation model, it's just bad. Maybe it contributes to perl's good startup time, but the starup time is still massively slown down when you import a few modules anyway.

>Maybe this also applies to Perl6.
I'm faily certain the entire program is fully parsed before being compiled and run. There would still be some kind of interleaving if you used a DSL, because the DSL parser and it's "Actions" should already be compiled in order to parse the lexical block of code containg the DSL program, but the interleaving would be really clean.
>>
>>108384948
>OOP and later the metaobject protocol/metamodel
>OOP
I meant late bounded OOP, dynamic dispatch everywhere
>>
>>108364365
There is no good reason to use it.
>>108364840
That's just automake generating shell with sanatization hacks.
>>
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>>108392448
Anon, you definitely know more about this stuff than me. Most people probably do.
Anyway, still waiting for that ZIP with info.
>>
>>108395020

Here's a sneak peak. I'm not over yet but I don't think there will be a lot more than this. A handful of these are links to blog that contains many webpages or presentation slides pdfs. In terms of conference videos it's dry as fuck if you want pre 2010 perl6 stuff, but I'll look in what I have. There is at least 2 that a little bit interesting that I've included (Wall and Randall). The podcast with Michaud is probably the best source in all of this in terms of history and evolution of perl 6. I remember of at least one perl conference where LWall talked about the RFCs.

All links except the pugs one are live or webarchive links, so there may not be a need for a zip. A few referenced documents in http://www.parrotcode.org/talks required a little bit of digging I'll try to re-find the links for them and if not I'll make a zip for those.

https://files.catbox.moe/giq226.txt
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>>108364365
>>108364735
Won't Go be a better choice? It's has script-ty syntax and a much bigger infrastructure around it.

With a giant plus of you actually being able to find a job with it.

Or you may use Lisp like an epic haxor and go for Scheme (Chez, perhaps)
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Wasn't 4chan's backend written in Perl originally?
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>>108395537
>.txt
Thank you!
>conference where LWall talked about the RFCs
He talks about them retrospectively in 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxLIQxSda0E
...and this is his first talk after the Perl6 RFC process conclusion: https://web.archive.org/web/20011211001639/http://dev.perl.org/~ask/als/larry-als.txt (Atlanta Linux Showcase, October 2000)
...and the slides for that talk: https://web.archive.org/web/20011205000100/http://www.wall.org/~larry/als/talk.html
Although he isn't even mentioned as a speaker, for some reason: https://archive.org/details/2000-proceedings-linux-showcase-atlanta/page/n2/mode/1up
[Python 2.0 was released two days later]

Masak's blog on Perl6 development: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/list-of-posts
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>https://web.archive.org/web/20120328161638/https://blob.perl.org/perlweb/dev/perl6/talks/2001/dconway-Perl6.pdf
schizo moment
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>>108397421
>He talks about them retrospectively in 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxLIQxSda0E
that's the one

>Masak's blog on Perl6 development: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/list-of-posts
thanks, I'll look if there something interesting in there

still continuing btw
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Personally I do not give a shit about scripting languages. If I cannot write a bash/batch script then I default to C++. If there is some script I have to use/modify I just continue using whatever the original author used whether it's Perl, Ruby, Python, whatever. Python seems the most popular these days but they all seem close enough to the same to me, why get bothered about favorites.
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>>108388115
elaborate
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bum[pp
>>
i don't get why people hate it. you can make your perl scripts look almost exactly like C which keeps them readable.
>>
people seem to have forgotten perl's niche as a tool between bash/awk/sed and higher level programming languages
>>108375176
but then couldn't you just base your container on something ultra stable like debian? they probably get a new perl lile every 20 years
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>>108402326
There is virtually no tooling of any kind.
If you are writing something trivial to automate a boring task that has a high tolerance for errors then any language is fine, even bash. I had a colleague who did his scripting in PHP.
But bigger projects require a more rigourous approach, with good IDE support, excellent debuggers, good linting, good *and varied* packaging/build tools, great static analysers.
Perl has none of this. IDE support is nonexistent, debugging is a joke, packaging is anchored to CPAN and its obsolete tooling with zero diversity.
Oh, and static analysis has been formally proven impossible.
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>>108402615
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>>108402615
perl has a debugger though
it can even trace the execution of a regex match
there is a regex debugger on cpan
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>>108402992
>perl has a debugger though
One, singular. And barely anything integrates with it, ddd being probably the best option. But ddd is not an IDE, so it's not as convenient.
perldebtut lists PerlDevKit and PerlBuilder but both are abandoned, kek
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>>108402404
Many people seem to struggle with the concept of scripting. Either it's full application development or poking around in GUIs.

Either way, for the last 15-20 years, scripting was taken over by python and ruby (and eventually Go, sort of). Given the choice, most people preferred writing in those languages over perl, though die-hards remained.
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>>108396832
yes it was

>>108397421
>http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/a-vm-for-6model
neat, I just wonder what's difference between method dispatch and "an object system".

pretty suret that the transition from "an object system" to the "6model" means transition towards a metaobject protocol
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you can use whatever you want. I myself am not going to waste my time learning a dead language for no reason.
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>>108364365
It's dead. Use Perl.NET aka PowerShell instead.
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>>108400137
You have to ask, you don't need to know.
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>>108405039
PowerShell is only for windows and from what I've seen it doesn't bring anything new, nor does it tidy up an existing set of features
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>>108408240
You might want to check again as your information is clearly out of date. PowerShell has been crossplatform since version 6 over 10 years ago.
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>>108402615
Unironically: I use sh/ksh/bash for work daily. I also use python if I feel mean. What niche is left for perl?
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>>108408351
>What niche is left for perl?
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>>108408395
So not even all the supposed modules shopped with distros are its saving grace?
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>>108408261
>crossplatform
It's still a .NET language, I don't want to touch that.
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>>108408351
You might be surprised by how nice it is at string processing tasks and by extension at scripting tasks.
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>>108408519
>>108408489
it's also good at slapping a bunch of programs together, something that's harder to do in python. it's where the language got its reputation as a "glue language".
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>>108399733
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>>108404824
>castrated language
use case for any of that shit?
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>>108410771
I don't know, I keep asking what's the use case for dynamic typing and the answer is always retarded.
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I've gathered most of the old directories I have so now I'm sorting them and completing them.
I'll probably upload the zip tomorrow. Don't let the thread die please.
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>>108408489
Perl modules shipped with the distro are of sufficient freshness and quality to suit whatever purpose the distro needs them for. The same goes for the Perl version and build flags.
You should not be using the distro builds of stuff for your own projects unless you're a developer for said distro (which 99% of developers aren't). They are not intended for your projects. The distro will not consult you when they decide to ship a new, incompatible library (or module, or interpreter) in a future version, and your shit will break horribly. They will not ask your permission to remove a module from their repos.
It doesn't matter if you program in C or Perl or Python. The distro does not build libraries for you, never has and never will.
If you publish your projects for others, they WILL be using different OS versions with different sets of libraries. Your shit shouldn't break just because their DISTRO uses a different Perl for its own internal purposes. You should either bundle Perl with your project, or require a specific Perl build as a dependency, or test and validate your project against that specific build on that distro and whitelist it.
Many developers don't understand this basic principle and then blame Perl (or Python, or OpenSSL) when it doesn't suit their project, despite their own misconceptions having caused the issue.



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