What sort of fun stuff can I do with these? Was thinking of buying one to diagnose problems with keyboard PCBs
>>108459722you can roleplay being a doctor and go around shouting "Clear! bzzzt!"
I'll be honest you could probably have more fun by spending that money on steam games
Wouldn't a multi meter be enough for keyboard pcbs?
>>108459792I want more diagnostic info about the pull up resistors etc
smashing it with something heavy gotta be fun, like with a hammer or a dumbbell
Use it to read the waveforms when you're electro stimming your balls
>>108459722electronics>>108459792multimeters don't allow you to inspect high-frequency signals and their integrity
>>108459722A network analyzer is more apt and they cost like $20, the cheapest oscope that can do protocol decoding is like $800.
>>108459722That will be a rather expensive take, and a logic analyse will be more suted for your needs. In any case, a simple USB scope will be sufficient and far, far cheaper than what you posted.You can also make a scope out of Red Pitaya and that allows for more applications down the line, after you have diagnosed that keyboard PCB.
>>108461261this retard advice from an anon that clearly doesn't do electronicsunderstand what the tools doa logical analyzer is only good if you can already trust your digital logic signal integrity, which can only be established using an oscilloscopethere are a huge number of reasons why your 1s and 0s aren't actually 1s and 0sif you signals aren't in spec, a logic analyzer will give you misleading resultsa scope can be used to debug any problem
>>108459722Look at waveforms and wonder why they are shit.
>>108461501Sin wave goes uwu
>>108461463>y trust your digital logic signal integrity, which can only be established using an oscilloscopeDude, pay attention: OP is talking about a kayboard PCB, not the hottest microwave device. >a scope can be used to debug any problemImagine believing garbage like this.
If you touch the probe while standing near an electrical outlet, you see a 60hz waveform.
>>108461501aw, geeze, too much capacitance on the line
>>108461555dude, OP is asking >What sort of fun stuff can I do with these?you sound like a CS fag
>>108459722>What sort of fun stuff can I do with these?Incorrect question. You should be asking what kind of fun stuff benefits from having one of these. Hobbyist PCB and and DIY electronics mostly.>>108460644Let's assume for a sec OP has those DIY mechanical keyboards in mind. Multimeters won't help with signals like I2C. Then again, pic rel would be overkill.>>108460663I was about to say you've dropped three zeroes, but then found NanoVNA, though that's still 50 dollars.
>>108459722Fun? Play vector games/demos. Everything else is work.
>>108461698>you sound like a CS fagBrutal.I am a physicist and used scopes in my lab work. Sure there can be had fun but the cost benefit is not good, unless he goes for a USB scope as mentioned earlier.
>>108461555>Dude, pay attention: OP is talking about a kayboard PCBWell he said he was trying to diagnose problems with pull-up resistors on defective PCBs
>>108462870>I need a scope to "diagnose" a pull up resistorWhat?
>>108463069I have a keyboard PCB with prolonged instability after key release (beyond normal switch bounce) and I'm trying to diagnose the source of the problem, with one theoretically possible diagnosis being a briefly floating signal due to inadequate pull-up resistors in the controller unit. Whether that's a real problem production keyboards ever have, I don't know; but Claude seems to think it could be. And half of its other ideas about possible problems also involve taking a look with an oscilloscope. It sounds like one of those indispensable pieces of gear if you're messing around with circuits.Without being able to look at what precisely is happening with the signals in the circuit, it's difficult to guess at what the real culprit is. I kinda want to take a look. I know it's a lot of money to spend to come up with a theoretical fix—maybe not even possible to implement—for a keyboard that cost much less than the tool itself, but.. I really want to know lol. I feel like I need to know.
>>108463460>but Claude seems to thinkopinion discarded (and i'm pro oscilloscope)
>>108464275These days I can't tell whether these posts are kneejerk reactions to LLM use in general, snobbery about local vs. SAAS, snobbery about particular SAAS companies, or something else entirely. I get tempted to write a reply until I realize I can't possibly guess what the angle is
>>108459722For most DIY applications oscilloscopes, and especially pic related, are overkill. Just use a multimeter or those cheap all-in-ones from /csg/ that combine functions of multimeter, oscilloscope, function generator if you want to poke around at shit for funsies.>diagnose problems with keyboard PCBsa multimeter should be more than enough. At worst a Rpi pico logic analyzer.For the record I use that Rigol oscilloscope to work with VCRs for vhsdecode purposes. Video signals require lots of bandwidth.
>>108464388specifically for the kind of thing in >>108463460 though? On this one problematic PCB I get switch bounce up to 20ms after key release, even with 5ms of defer debounce, which means 5 consecutive scans of switch down are happening even 20ms after key release occasionally. I've never had that problem on any other board and it's not caused by the switches themselves—they're Cherry MX, for one, and this board has been erratic with all the switches I've ever tried in it. And the problem is not associated with any particular position, it's all over the board. Something's funny. If there's some simple way to figure out what's going on there with a DMM or logic analyzer, I'll gladly try it. Although I must admit I'm a little hoping I'll need an oscilloscope because they... look cool
>>108464435Let's say you find exactly what's at fault, do you have spare ICs and SMDs around to replace the faulty components?The issue here is not that the oscilloscope will not help you, it's just that big-ass oscilloscope is too expensive and overkill for such an application, the equivalent of buying a sports car to commute to work and constantly getting stuck at traffic.>I'm a little hoping I'll need an oscilloscope because they... look coolIn that case splurge away I guess... You have my permission to spend 300+ EUR/USD on the big ass oscilloscope if that's what you wanted to hear from this thread. Maybe you'll eventually find an application that truly requires it, just like I did with the whole vhsdecode thing.
>>108464488No of course I don't have that spare stuff laying around. But at least I would finally understand the problem, set some unholy 10+ms of defer debounce in the firmware, and be at peace. I am getting into the electric circuits stuff right now (partly just so I can understand my brother the electrician when he tells me about circuit stuff from his day at work) so maybe I will get to a point where DIY fixing that sort of problem isn't unimaginable. Also I'd like to produce my own PCBs someday soon. So in any case I'm not rushing to discover reasons to give up. I want to know more things, even if I'm not sure where I'm going.
>>108464510You are not Isaac Newton. It will sit in your closet for ten years and then you will sell it on eBay at a loss. Go look in your closet right now and tell me you don't already have a stack of other cool tools you just had to have at some point and never really put to use.You need to give up on your romantic idea of yourself as some kind of DIY polymath. What is your actual day job? If a tool helps you do that, or helps you with routine domestic maintenance, then buy it. Otherwise it's just a toy.
>>108459722>Help me pick a task for the toolWhy would you buy this toy if you don't know the theory and have no particular goal?
Zogslaves will think they're dropping the hardest truth nuke of all time and it's just "you are NOT special you will NEVER do something cool"
>>108464541Why do I get the feeling you’re talking to your former self?
>>108464601There's a particular goal which I mentioned a few times in subsequent posts. But I find that, like in Ocarina of Time, although I acquire tools as I need them for some small task at hand, there are surprising other uses for them somewhere down the road which I can never predict. A man with more tools is more fully a man, as long as man lives and breathes he acquires tools...
>>108464636I used to think like that. Then I turned 17. Making electronic things with virtually no theoretical basis sure was fun and, in a way, insightful, but there is a hard ceiling to what one can achieve doing things this way. When you face it, you either lrn2ee and become a boring paid professional, or abandon the hobby.
Maybe try asking your brother if he wants to help you fix it?
>>108459722you want a logic analizer for that. a scope is good to have in general for eletronic stuff>>108461759pretty sure he menat a logic analizer
>>108464780He is very 140iq individual with solid understanding of theory (unfortunately wasted in his career presently) but also crippling world of warcraft addiction (top 0.01% player); he would not want to spend that time helping me no
>>108464435>I get switch bounce up to 20ms after key release, even with 5ms of defer debounce, which means 5 consecutive scans of switch down are happening even 20ms after key release occasionallyYou decide on a scope depending on the bandwidth and max frequency you need. Often this is 10 MHz to a few GHz. In your case 1 kHz is plenty, and you can do with an audio ADC that is part of your sound system on a PC (or RPi). A good audio ADC samples at about 44 kHz, so you can sample a 22 kHz signal (Nyquist theorem), which leaves you with 45 us details. That is plenty with 3 orers of magnitude to spare.So rather than blowing 1000 bucks on a scope you can reuse the audio system on your PC for free.
>>108459722No idea bought one waste of my money. Gonna sell it
any recommendations for a hobbyist budget scope?
>>108467998My recommendation is to read through this:https://hackaday.com/blog/?s=oscilloscopeAnd what is the planned use? Ham radio, microwave tech, logic gates analysis, small device testing...? You need to figure out - bandwidth - max frequency - resolution - smallest voltage detected - functions such as triggering, XY-mode, FFT, etc.
>>108461501how's the non-smoking journey going for you? I ordered some nicotine gums and am curious if it helps. I went from smoking a pack a day to vaping 10mh nicotine to 1.8mg nicotine right now and want to ditch it completely
