Yes, I know this is the place where everybody loves to rice and have complete control over their system, but unlike some people who use Linux, I actually have a job and things I need to do.I have been daily driving Linux, and it is very good, but I was wondering if it is possible to still have a good understanding of Linux systems on what some may call a “normie” distro like Ubuntu. Do I really need to use something like Arch or Gentoo to learn Linux? And if I do use Arch or Gentoo, am I even really learning Linux? It kind of seems I would learn more about the package manager and whatever other stuff it uses instead of actually learning Linux systems.
>>108502677Use whatever distro you want.
>>108502677Just use Slackware for a year.
>>108502677Who fucking cares. Shut up fake engagement bait bot poster on a dead board.
>>108502723Slackware is quite old, why should I use it for a year?
>>108502677https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
>>108502677Also yes. Understand that even though distros do significantly change the experience, the best distro is the one that works best for you. Debian-based is absolutely fine, and as a matter of fact, the more people are on your distro, the better, because you'll have an easier time finding support.
>>108502677https://www.qemu.org/
>>108502751To learn Linux. It's not old, all the latest software is available on it. Including Steam and vidya. The way Slackware does things is the "Linux Way" and it isn't abstracted by default to all sorts of tools and applications. People have made helper scripts and so on, but hardly any of those are actually part of Slackware and aren't found on official repositories or package sets, it's something you have to install yourself.If you wish to add a module or patch the kernel, Slackware forces you to do that manually. Actually, configuring your own kernel you see that there's so much shit in there, enabled, that you'll never use. Drivers for hardware you don't have, drivers for hardware nobody has, and so on.
>>108502819>To learn Linux. It's not old, all the latest software is available on it. Including Steam and vidya. The way Slackware does things is the "Linux Way" and it isn't abstracted by default to all sorts of tools and applications.yepeven better if you chmod -x udev, elogind and dbusit actually teaches you Linux instead of teaching you anything distro-specific
>>108502819>>108502838Never knew that; I might look into it and install it or just run it on a virtual machine to learn Linux.
>>108502677>Do I really need to use something like Gentoo yes. install gentoo
>>108502819>>108502838That sounds cool, might use it on the server, could be cool.
>>108502863Gentoo is only a runner-up, behind Void and Slackware.
>>108502875Isnt gentoo more low level compared to the other two?I thought it was one steap ahead of LFS (disclaimer never used either, i am on arch and dont want to nuke my system :( )
>>108502819What is better honestly? Gentoo or Slack?
>>108502919>Isnt gentoo more low level compared to the other two?no, portage is smarter than xbps and xbps is smarter than pkgtools, it's not really relevant whether you compile or not because that's basic data you store in your brain.>I thought it was one steap ahead of LFSLFS shocks Gentoo users because of how different it is.>>108502947Gentoo resolves your dependencies for you, making it less good of a teacher to prepare you for LFS than Slackware is.
>>108502677Installing arch (without archinstall, but following the installation guide on the wiki) is a nice exercise to get some knowledge on filesystem partitioning, setting up an x server and getting a basic wm/de working (hard mode: no gnome/kde)
>>108502961It (pacman) does teach you bad habits, due to being automatically dependency resolving, and systemd is deeply entrenched in Arch, anyhowever
>>108502957Doesnt void auto resolve deps also?>>108503028Why would you say automatic dependency resolution is bad (aside from the learning aspect)Seems like a reasonable abstraction to me
>>108503028Systemd is fine. People are just hating on it because it's the cool thing to do. The PR that got blown up re age restriction was just hugely overblown. If people really want a minimal init system there's Artix
>>108503053Systemd is fine if you are a two digit IQ who still hasnt figured out the agenda behind it.
>>108503058Ah yes, the agenda. Let me guess, the Jewish agenda? Are (((they))) behind it?
>>108502677Learning linux and using a linux distro are two different things, fundamentally. The distro you use daily doesn't really affect your ability to install something in a vm and set up some services on it. These are concerns that you can seperate.
>>108502961It's not necessary to know any of that because an install with a login manager won't even use your xinitrc. Why startx in 2026?
>>108502961You basically just get practice using fdisk, and a couple of prelim things that you'll never use again because nothing else requires you to do it manually, and you only need to do it because you're installing the system. No Devops engineer needs to remember to sync the system clock. The option would never present itself.
>>108503058So what's the agenda behind the obsolete alternatives offered by distros maintained by just-add-water goofballs pretending to have your personality?
>>108503048>Doesnt void auto resolve deps also?It does, but the depend resolution is not as deep, it is simpler overall and stays more out of your way. There's less 'distro-specific' syntax you must have to learn with xbps, compared to portage.>Why would you say automatic dependency resolution is bad (aside from the learning aspect)>Seems like a reasonable abstraction to meWhy would you want your package manager to pull in things without asking you? At best it gets the things you would've installed anyway, or it can turn on services you didn't want, and then have a head-ache arguing with it to remove it, it giving you an ultimatum to either delete the desktop or keep the bloat (like what happened with Linus Tech Tips "yes, do as I say.")>>108503053>Coal furnaces are fine. People are just hating on them because it's the cool thing to do. The PR that got blown up re lung cancer was just hugely overblown. If people really want a healthy heating system there's pellets/electricity>>108503081>Ah yes, the agenda. Let me guess, the Jewish agenda? Are (((they))) behind it?Easiest way to out yourself as two digit IQ. Clear to anyone else is that each and every software developer has an agenda behind the tools they program. Lennart Poettering is no exception, and no saint either.>>108503131>Why startx in 2026?Because it's quicker (more importantly, KISS - simpler,) to have a login script start your desktop.>>108503158>you only need to do it because you're installing the system.Depends. fdisk is designed to stay out of your way maximally, and it is able to be ran non-interactively, hence adheres to the Unix philosophy
>>108503081Enjoy your mandatory digital ID on Linux
>>108503195>Because it's quicker (more importantly, KISS - simpler,) to have a login script start your desktop.How is having to type startx after you type both your username and password faster than just typing your password and being logged in?
>>108503195>and it is able to be ran non-interactivelyThat's what parted is for.
>>108503195>Coal furnaces are fine. People are just hating on them because it's the cool thing to do. The PR that got blown up re lung cancer was just hugely overblown. If people really want a healthy heating system there's pellets/electricityShow me the people that died because of the PR. If you're taking leaps then so can I. I'm waiting.
>>108503209I meant including a script that automatically runs startx when you boot, or alternatively, enter your password shortly after boot.>>108503214parted is not included in Toybox, Busybox or util-linux.
>>108503195>Clear to anyone else is that each and every software developer has an agenda behind the tools they program.the agenda behind systemd was "every daemon manager is fucking awful and also i have german autism"
>>108502860>>108502873Don't turn off elogind if you want to use KDE or GNOME, as it is a hard dependency for them. Disabling udev and dbus just means you'll have to manually mount devices and manually control the hardware.
You already know how to use cowsay, that's basically all you'll ever need.
>>108503224systemd-journald suicide
>>108503195Because archinstall exists, right, I can save archinstall configurations, already prepped for a specific disk configuration.>>108503229>automatically runs startx when you bootYeah, you don't ever do that. That's a unnecessary point of failure.>parted is not included in Toybox, Busybox or util-linux.It's on the arch iso. It's what I use to partition vba on my test vm.
>>108503240Got it. In short: Don't use KDE or GNOME (XFCE is a fine alternative,) and write a neat init script for chowning your event, dri and snd files in /dev and a tidy Xorg config.
>Do I really need to use something like Arch or Gentoo to learn Linux? And if I do use Arch or Gentoo, am I even really learning Linux? Arch and Gentoo are not for "learning", they're meant to be easy and convenient to people who already understand the basics. Ubuntu is a dogshit distro but this is orthogonal to it being easy to use.
>>108503270Where do you go to build sandcastles?
>>108503253Be warned, archinstall and, like I mentioned, parted, go against the KISS/Unix philosophies, if you insist on using them, because they are in fact distro-specific tools learning doesn't teach you general Linux skill of understanding the system, and it's pretty baseless to claim that running startx is a point of failure on a single-user machine, where you may have passphrase-based encryption set up in either case, if you insist on being secure from physical-access attacks (you may only postpone their success temporarily.)
>>108502677Linux literally has something for everyone.>Trannies Arch, endeavor, and artix for trannies who want to customize their distro like they do their bodies >Gaymers Pop, Nobara for gaymen types who just want to play vidya without windows >TinkerfaggotsGentoo, Slackware, LFS for those who want to learn how the kernel works >Normie NPCsPop, Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora who just want a plug and play distro that doesn't require 3 hours of tinkering to install one programWhich ever respective category you belong is the distro you should use There is no "learning Linux." There is "how to use my distro" as there is far too much for anyone to actually know everything
>>108503287I don't care about your ideological concerns.Plaintext logs are weak and therefore every non-systemd distro is weak. Simple. The unix philosophy concedes that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
>>108503300>Plaintext logs are weak and therefore every non-systemd distro is weakThey're not. It's called being friendly toward human beings, not 'weak.'
>>108503315Until a browser RCE runs sed.Somehow letting that happen was stopping you from using journalctl in a pipe.
>>108503292>Linux literally has something for everyone.>Arch, endeavor, and artix for trannies who want to customize their distro like they do their bodiesChecks out.>Pop, Nobara for gaymen types who just want to play vidya without windowsI may say Debian.>Gentoo, Slackware, LFS for those who want to learn how the kernel worksYes, indeed.>Pop, Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora who just want a plug and play distro that doesn't require 3 hours of tinkering to install one programMostly just Mint.>There is no "learning Linux."Then, what did you mean by "learn how the kernel works?"
>>108503328>letting that happen was stopping you from using journalctl in a pipe.Because it's a single-user system, and you run software you trust on it, only.
>>108503300systemd binary logs are fucking dogshit and i say this as a systemd apologist, there's a reason it still lets you use a text logger
>>108503340You know how trusting trust gets you turtles all the way down and the NSA keeps backdoors in everything, esp your browser and proprietary chat application?
>>108498770>>108498770>>108498770Bro go there, I created a thread just for you.1. thing is you made the right choice, Ubuntu2. you do not need to understand linux, you will understand it when your usecase expands and you will need to learn new stuff. Learning for no reason is a waste of time, if you are bored better spend time learning to code. I havent used linux a day in my life, then once i needed to use dockerized container ubuntu on windows via WSL2, i picked it up in one evening.3. if you want more complexity go fedora, gentoo is pointless like arch.
>>108503292It sucks being the only straight arch user bros
>>108503347It's probably just from idiots complaing. What serious security model would use plaintext logs? Even if you have root, the best you can really do against binary logs is delete a bunch more stuff than you should and expose your presence, unless you know exactly how to edit the binary data.
>>108503371>you will understand it when your usecase expands and you will need to learn new stuff. Learning for no reason is a waste of time,How is it a waste of time to proactively learn about the thing you are using before the need arises that forces you, so that you are prepared, instead of doing everything like a moron who needs guardrails?
>>108503371>>108503387It's like saying buy a gun, but only ever go to the range and practice when someone overtly threatens your life. It's actually a reductio.
>>108502677What do you actually want to learn?Learning the wrong things makes you retarded, you see it every day, there are people wanting to use the older simpler obsolete solutions because they can't fit more information to their heads to navigate the current scope. So don't learn depths of Linux unless you really think you have something to contribute to the Linux ecosystem.If you can handle every way being a dead-end like in a maze, to absolutely avoid learning useless implementation details, and to eventually find your way out to results, you should get a Mac and learn Rust.Sounds gay but these are some very gay times.
>>108503466Good bait, but no, experimenting with hasicorp tooling (packer/terraform), shell scripting, services, scheduled tasks, and networking is probably the way to go to get experience learning linux.
>learn linuxwhat do people always mean by this?what is there to learn? it functions like every other OS, you have folders and other shit like on windows and macOS.
>>108502677Yes. There's nothing wrong with using an easy distro because you always have the option to dive deeper. In fact if you do complicated things you likely will be required to dive deeper. The sort of things that on windows would require editing something in their god-forsaken registry to even have permission to touch.
>>108502677The day of the linux will be be. Make your own OS like Terry Davis or just accept windows.
Alright, keeping Ubuntu but installing Slackware on a virtual machine. Going to be using it for a few days. If it works well, I might consider putting Slackware on bare metal, but Ubuntu just works, so I think it might be best just to keep Slackware on the VM.I was able to fix some of the problems it had, but I think I need to reinstall Slackware because a few things are odd.
>>108503731Yep. Eventually you figure out how to fix issues without re-installing. You could install multiple vm's, set up ssh servers on them. Put them on a vlan by putting them on a bridge instead of NAT, and then they can talk to each other. Read manpages, wiki guides, and configure software. Learn how to use xdg-mime, for example.
>>108503195>or it can turn on services you didn't wantI missed this, earlier. Do you know a single tangible thing about Arch, or are you just flying by the seat of your pants?
>>108503377i don't care if it's more secure if it works like fucking shit, anon. i'm not storing state secrets on my boxes.
>>108503843It works perfectly fine. If there's anything you're doing that requires you to take it seriously enough to have an opinion you contradict yourself by mentioning that you don't have anything to worry about.
>>108503843Can't be anything you're doing with them that makes sense.
