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►Recent Highlights from the Previous Thread: >>108523376

--Paper (old): Prompt Repetition Improves Non-Reasoning LLMs:
>108523990 >108524023 >108524659 >108524685 >108524702
--Papers:
>108524304
--LLM Japanese manga translation quality and Gemma 4 VLM setup:
>108523957 >108523974 >108523981 >108524076 >108524123 >108524355 >108524094 >108524120 >108524253 >108524298 >108524317 >108524322 >108524374 >108524378 >108524389 >108524697 >108524706 >108524753 >108524828
--Optimizing llama-server settings and KV cache quantization for Gemma 4:
>108523715 >108523742 >108523747 >108523752 >108523754 >108523765 >108523776 >108523786 >108523833 >108525486 >108525514
--SWA checkpoint size causing Gemma 4 OOM errors:
>108524983 >108524994 >108525004 >108525048 >108525074 >108525117 >108525240 >108525297 >108525333 >108525258 >108525298 >108525345 >108525360 >108525374 >108525402 >108525468 >108525488 >108525499
--Adjusting Gemma (4) logit softcapping to reduce repetition:
>108523839 >108524285 >108524348 >108524517 >108524524 >108525246 >108525203 >108525311 >108525535 >108524362 >108524387 >108525540 >108525563 >108525656
--Optimizing Gemma 4 inference speed and VRAM usage on 3090s:
>108523498 >108523506 >108523514 >108523522 >108523540 >108523578 >108525451
--Optimizing 26B A4B model performance on 4070 GPU:
>108524997 >108525007 >108525030 >108525034 >108525044 >108525096 >108525050 >108525054 >108525062 >108525089 >108525067
--Gemma-4 31B context-dependent knowledge:
>108525023 >108525027 >108525041 >108525120 >108525186 >108525268
--koboldcpp-1.111 adds Gemma 4 support with format quirks and VRAM optimizations:
>108524838 >108524843 >108524891
--Gemma translation quality and discussing MoE intelligence:
>108524295
--Miku (free space):
>108524361 >108524542 >108525390 >108525578 >108525635 >108525714 >108525869 >108525892 >108525932 >108526247

►Recent Highlight Posts from the Previous Thread: >>108523382

Why?: >>102478518
Enable Links: https://rentry.org/lmg-recap-script

Gem mah ballz

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>>108526486

>>108526533
thanks doc

how does the gemma 4 moe compare to the 31b for rp? is it significantly worse or just the same but dumber?

>>108526533
I can see it

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>google_gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-Q4_K_M
This can't be right?

>>108526551
>q4 MoE
might as well run the native 4b at q8...

>>108526551
>Q4_K_M
sounds about right
you're basically running only 2gb active parameters

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guys, I don't want to brag, but see picrel. what does gemma think about you?

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It's impressive how uncucked gemma 4 is, I never expected google to be this based

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>>108526551
Same thing just without the forced structured output.

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Gemma-chan...

>>108526570
Fucking kek

>>108526570
ahh ahh gemma

>>108526570
llms have peaked
it all leads up to this

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>>108526570
I had garbage outputs in Silly until I explicitly added <bos> to the start of the system prompt. It's something that usually is added by the server-side my llama.cpp but I guess not in case of gemma 4.

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>>108526570
Just like a real living thing. AGI ACHIEVED

alright now that we have the model, soon we will have the working backend, the question that is left is when are we getting good frontends? Sillytavern can't be all there is right? Mikupad is good too but it's not developed anymore.

>>108526570
lmaoo

>>108526570
wew lad

>>108526590
What do you want that Silly can't offer?

>>108526586
Bro just use chat completion.

>>108526570
looooool

I don't trust this thread for model recommendations anymore after the weeks of nonstop shilling for qwen 3.5, and when i finally decided to try it out it was the exact same slop as all the other qwens. Is gemma 4 actually meaningfully less safetycucked than 3 or are we just going through the same thing again

>>108526568
Proves that something is wrong with llama.cpp implementation.

>>108526600
Chat completion can't do prefills.

>>108526621
yes they can

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>>108526555
>>108526568
google_gemma-4-E4B-it-Q8_0

>>108526600
Bro, chat completion is the same it just wraps your shit and forwards it to the same end point.

>>108526599
mostly different types of rp. silly allows you to have conversational rp, miku allows it to be like a novel. We are kinda missing more fun stuff like dnd/rpg/choose your own adventure. I know there are some extensions but it is very janky and limited, at least from my experience.

>>108526555
>>108526558
why isn't quantization aware training like kimi does more common? is there a big tradeoff? having a basically natively 4 bit model is such a huge boon for local use

>>108526621
Of course it can.

>>108526608
I only tested its intelligence, not its ability to provide pleasant to read text for ERP or its ability to break its safety conditioning, but from what I have seen it is smart. Qwen3.5 was also smart too, by the way.

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>>108526586
>mfw I discovered chat completion and stopped putting up with that nonsense anymore

>>108526608
it's a good model, but still slightly hesitant to use naughty words
less than gemma 3 but still kinda weird, because other than the preference for more literary language it doesn't really refuse anything

>>108526627
Yeah but you don't have to spend fucking an hour trying to figure which part of the jinja you failed to copy exactly. Are you doing anything special with your template that chat completion wouldn't do?

Chat completion cannot prefill thinking. Anons who use chat completion never played with prefilling the think blocks.
Remind them.

>>108526586
<bos> is something what llama.cpp devs use but it should not be external.
My tests with completion work, but there is still a memory leak or something after some point.
I have never seen a <bos> token in my life when it comes to implementing a simple chat template.

>>108526630
>>108526625
Explain. Is this a new thing? Or is this like a pretend prefill where it's actually not from model's perspective?

>>108526608
>Is gemma 4 actually meaningfully less safetycucked than 3
definitely is >>108526566

>>108526636
>Chat completion cannot prefill thinking
It can if you turn off thinking so llamacpp doesn't complain and you prefill with the thinking block.

>>108526636
>Chat completion cannot prefill thinking
never tried doing this personally but i see aicg niggas doing it so it's possible

>>108526608
I also think it's good and better than Qwen, and that Qwen 3.5 was better than previous Qwens.

>>108526632
Better yet. If you want to deal with that nonsense, you at least have a programmatic way to do it using Jinja.
Sucks about having to restart if you want to tweak shit.

>>108526640
A far as I know, it's always been a thing. Maybe there was a bug at some point, but most templates (all that I've seen) will properly format a prefilled assistant turn just fine.
You can always check what llama.cpp itself is seeing using --verbose if you want to check.

>>108526586
Thanks, that's helpful. Does the system prompt automatically go before the story string when it sends the context? Or is there a setting somewhere for that? I never know with sillytavern because there's so many options and parameters everywhere.

>>108526635
I do my own client. That's why.
Appending few tags here and there is not rocket science either just be careful about newlines.
Most people are unfortunately using retardo tavern, I feel bad for them.

suddenly gemma4 31b broke for me for me for me for me for me for me for me me me me me me me me me me me

>>108526616
>Proves that something is wrong with llama.cpp implementation.
I'm running the dedicated parser branch. but yeah, I'm thinking the MoE has some edge cases the code doesn't take into account.

I am downloading 26B Q8 to fit into my 12gb butthole, if I die it's you guys' fault

>>108526570
fucking AGI achieved

>>108526586
>>108526656 (me)
Wait nevermind. I see it's at the top of the story string.

>>108526660
It's a memory leak or something.
This has happened before.
Sometimes people claim that a quant is broken which can be true.
This happened with some older Mistral but after some llama update it went away.

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Dedicated parser is merged!

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>>108526656
I'm pretty sure system prompt includes everything before the first reply and its order is definedi n the section of my original screenshot on the left. Also click this button to see how silly rendered your whole context before sending it to the model.

>>108526680
ah shit i have to recompile

>>108526680
Sweet. So no more fixes needed? Are we good?

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We need Gemma 4 on smart watches, smart glasses, smartphones, microcontrollers. Don't get satisfied too early, lads. There is still progress to be made.

Cultivate your imagination. Open your mind, open your eyes. Achieve local, private omniscience.

>>108526680
time to recompile again lol

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>>108526680
LET'S GOO

I don't even use agents so I don't care but sure let's update

>>108526690
>microcontroller
tb h i always have thought about microcontroller sized "LLM" to fit inside an onahole to make it react with small lcd

>>108526688
Yeah, it's 100% ready for you.

>>108526697
I give you props for using screen. But why not launch gnu screen session by default.

>>108526688
I honestly suspect the MoE might still be broken but 31B works perfect.

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>>108526680
Here we go again

>>108526710
Thanks. I love screen. I don't understand your question.

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>>108526697
GNU Screen ultimately lets you work better.
I use labelled screens because it is easier for me as I am short sighted anyway.

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yo

>>108526713
>31B works perfect
it works better than the auto parser or it was already good to go?

Has the quantization for gemma been fixed yet? I was running q8 and noticed a couple minor errors while doing RP recently. Really need the quality to be on par with normal KV again..

>>108526730
>it works better than the auto parser
This.

>>108526680
How does he manage to annoy me even when a good thing is happening?
> superior autoparser
The things I would do to him... ;) ;) ;) ;)

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So yeah Gemma 4 has literally like, Grok-tier inbuilt guardrails (which is to say it basically has none), I think it's THE least needing of abliteration of any local model I've ever used. Did they meant to make it like this? It's nuts. Like look how short my system prompt is, and it just goes along with it.

WTF is HauHau doing??? Why can't this nigga finish his quants? It has been two days.

>>108526680
new jinja template

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>>108526727
Well, I have named screens too... I don't get it. Are screen and GNU Screen two different programs?

>>108526738
he's being sarcastic anon, he's making fun of himself, which is a good thing, he's not some sensitive bitch that gets offended when we say his work is not perfect

>>108526742
arrested :)

>>108526753
is this a joke?

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nice

>>108526752
tee-hee my autoparser idea is shit oops ;)
model might have gone cuckoo ;)

Masking incompetence with humor is neither a successful mask nor funny.
Competent people pretending to be incompetent is also never funny.
I don't think he's the latter case.

>>108526752
>ha ha. this is better than my shit. ha ha. please stop looking at me. ha ha

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>>108526740
Idk but I can't wait to see the safety freaks shitting themselves over it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3AtWdeu_G0

>>108526759
How do you think his decensor is so good? Imagine all the vile shit he had in his training data.

>>108526772
I don't really even care about that. I just want to use his turboquants (KP) that work natively with llama.cpp.

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>>108526759
obviously
>>108526772
>Imagine all the vile shit he had in his training data.
like the Quran?

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>>108526766

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I heard someone say "Google solved the RAM problem for LLMs and RAM prices are crashing", and looked it up. Is this TurboQuant algorithm going to be available to local LLMs? Should I be able to run these big models in my Ollama now and start cutting out paying monthly fees to tech companies?

>>108526792
>Is this TurboQuant algorithm going to be available to local LLMs?
it's already the case
https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/21038

>>108526792
>turbomeme
>save the local
lol no

>>108526792
one (You), paid to anon for writing for a handwritten bait post with image attached

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>>108526751
GNU Screen is the official name. I just like to have the labels at the bottom.
On its own with configuration gnu screen is still great if you work over ssh. Just launch a process etc.

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>>108526651
current version actually spams the console with this garbage with --verbose so I don't see the original input. Hold on...

>>108526787
lmao

>>108526680
do i need any special options to use this?

>>108526740
What frontend?

>>108526796
Does it live up to the hype? I might pick up a RAM stick anyways while the prices are going back down.

>>108526803
I still don't get what you are asking. If you're asking why I'm not in a screen session when I am doing interactive work with console normally, it's because screen breaks console scrolling - I can't scroll up in it.

>>108526816
>Does it live up to the hype?
Idk, it doesn't seem to be activated on gemma for some reason >>108523389

>>108526824
You can do that.
>ctrl + a + [

>>108526816
no
it alleviated hysteric retailer price due to memetic value a bit but it is not something of stuff that will make shortage better for datacenters

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>>108526663
That's actually... really good? For thinking mode it's what, half this speed? Which isn't optimal but it's a a helluva jump for me in terms of quality

>>108526826
That is helpful, and thanks for that, but 1 I prefer that it scrolls when I scroll mouse wheel, and 2 for this case >>108526809 it doesn't keep history long enough to be useful.

>>108526836
It doesn't work like shift and pageup.
ctrl + a + [ is actually better it respects little inputs.
Of course it is annoying to hit that but not too bad.

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>>108526771

>>108526828
It's a moe with 4B activated, of course it's fast

>>108526825
You can comment out lines 280 and 286 in llama-kv-cache.cpp and the rotations are enabled for q8 cache quant for SWA. I saw an issue about it in llamacpp, did just that, rebuilt kobold and it didn't seem to make anything worse where before the model was fucking up character attributes if there were more than one in a scene. My guess is it's an oversight and they forgot to remove those lines when they reverted "don't quantize SWA"

>2026
>not using tmux for terminal multiplexing

>>108526809
Output it to a log file using --log-file.
It's also easier to see with streaming on.

>>108526836
It depends of the terminal configuration.
vim has its own scrollback buffer which is different from screen and so should any text editor have anyways.
Screen is useless in that sense.
But when you examine stuff printing out to terminal like, logs you can hit ctrl a [.

>>108526566
I don't know what Google's up to, but it's probably not good. I want to believe there's been a purge of some of the leftist pigs in that company. Things seemed to change pretty fast after that PR disaster with their image generator. But... it's probably just an elaborate bait and switch. That said, it's surreal just how uncensored Gemma 4 is. After GPTOSS, I thought all subsequent open models would follow the same disgusting censorship practices.

>>108526851
But it's smarter than a 4B, anon-kun

>>108526836
Can't you configure screen to use mouse wheel scrolling? Pretty sure tmux does.

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>>108526828
thats kind of slow, im getting 23t/s on my 3060, what gpu? 2060? amd? are you using -fit

>log_server_r: done request: POST /v1/chat/completions 192.168.0.13 500
It still 500s on long context reprocessing.

>>108526836
>>108526869
If you want, I can share my .screenrc. It's nothing special in this sense.
Yeah mousewheel is supported when you enable the ctrl a [ thing

>>108526860
Yeah it is. I was just saying it's not really a surprise that it's fast.

>>108526859
uncensored != miggermaxxed, retard, it has nothing to do with left wing or right wing

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Can something like this work on my laptop if I have 16GB DDR4, a m.2 nvme and a Ryzen 3?

>>108526883
No go back to twitter

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hauhaucs E4B Q8_K_P
logprobs are fucking cooked...

>>108526876
It's surprising if you're retarded like me

>>108526871
4070, but I never looked into maxxing out my settings since with other models it was fast enough, but I do use -fit ye
If you could share yours, I would be grateful

>>108526890
>go back
I'm still there in a separate tab. How does this going back thing work in an age of multiple tabs

>>108526891
Ah, but you see. That's an uncensored map!

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>>108526855
So here's a comparison. Left is chat completions, right is completions. I have completely othing in system prompt and character card. Silly ate the apostrophe for some reason, and inserted a bunch of unneeded system prompt stuff it uses to make chat completion work, and ultimately it was not a prefill, the answer didn't actually start from "I'm Claude". Ultimately, chat completion is shit in Silly, and just because aicg has to tolerate it since they have no other option, doesn't mean I will.

>>108526869
I didn't dig into it but if I could that would be very useful. I'll check later.

>>108526883
Yes, but keep in mind that the dude crippled the shit out of the model to achieve that.
It's as simple as running llama.cpp with mmap or direct io on.

>>108526878
nah, left wingers are pro censorship, look at twitter when it was run by a leftist and then by Elon, the latter got way more lax and let people speak their mind, look at reddit, they ban everyone that doesn't adhere to leftism, that's how they opperate, censorship is their motto

>>108526894
~/TND/llama.cpp/build/bin/llama-server --model ~/TND/AI/gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-Q8_0.gguf -c 32768 -fa on --no-mmap -np 1 -kvu --swa-checkpoints 3
i just use this, fit is on by default. are you on windows mayhaps?

>>108526898
Close this tab

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>>108526901
did you make sure it didn't have the default system prompt for chat competition in the AI response tab?

>>108526907
I am on Windows unfortunately, I'll give your settings a shot later
Danke anonski

>>108526883
Use IQ4 quants.

>>108526852
>I saw an issue about it in llamacpp
let's hope we'll get another PR fix from that
https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/issues/21394

>>108526891
>logprobs are fucking cooked...
Drop softcap to 25.0

>>108526907
Remove --swa-checkpoints
It's just useless trash.

Whose Gemma 4 should I download? I already have unsloth but
>unsloth

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lmao, gemma 4 to the moon!

Why does everyone disable mmap? is that a windows thing?

>>108526929
The default is 32 checkpoints, and each checkpoint is 1.2GB of RAM.
You do not need more than 3.

>>108526929
>Remove --swa-checkpoints
It defaults to 32.

Oh, no... here we go again...

>>108526940
You need 0 if you are not running an enterprise system.

>>108526933
the answer is always ubergarm, and if ubergarm doesn't exist yet then bartowski, and if bartowski doesn't exist yet then you wait

Reading /lmg/ has me thinking going to a Miku concert wouldn't be all that bad..
https://youtu.be/5obwOdVzV-M?si=xwXUm_j2xmtm_97y&t=33

>>108526934
Now I want to see the runescape bench.

>>108526913
All right. I didn't. Found and disabled them, and the RP shit is gone, but it's still exactly what I said it was. Silly cant do proper prefill.

add_text: <bos><|turn>system
[Start a new Chat]<turn|>
<|turn>user
Who are you again?<turn|>
<|turn>model
I'm Claude<turn|>
<|turn>system
[Continue the following message. Do not include ANY parts of the original message. Use capitalization and punctuation as if your reply is a part of the original message: I'm Claude]<turn|>
<|turn>model
<|channel>thought
<channel|>
srv  params_from_: Grammar lazy: false
srv  params_from_: Chat format: peg-gemma4
srv  params_from_: Generation prompt: '<|turn>model
<|channel>thought
<channel|>'
srv  params_from_: Preserved token: 100
srv  params_from_: Preserved token: 101
srv  params_from_: Preserved token: 48
srv  params_from_: Preserved token: 49
srv  params_from_: Preserved token: 105
res  add_waiting_: add task 1356 to waiting list. current waiting = 0 (before add)
que          post: new task, id = 1356/1, front = 0
que    start_loop: processing new tasks
que    start_loop: processing task, id = 1356
slot get_availabl: id 11 | task -1 | selected slot by LCP similarity, sim_best = 1.000 (> 0.100 thold), f_keep = 0.889

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it's so slow it's almost unreal, will post when it finishes
would anyone want to see higher resolution one with thinking on
e4b tho i am a vramlet

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>>108526934
That shit's crazy

>>108526963
make a sex bench i want to see it
if u make my pp hard you get 10/10 on the bench

>>108526973
anon, i...

>>108526933
lm-studio version

>>108526960
>>108526913
So llama.cpp is able to do proper prefills in chat completions, it seems, but Silly does not use that, and there's a wrongfully placed <|channel>thought\n<channel|> in the middle of the message.

i've been playing around with mannix/llama3.1-8b-abliterated on my 32gb intel macbook. it's slow as hell, but there's still something kind of wholesome about using local llms vs the paid ones. idk why. i'm new to using locals and am considering getting either a 4090 based system or 128gb silicon macbook...i know fine tuning is not in the cards at this tier, but not even a little? i want to make a friendly little llm that's all mine

>>108526946
>Having to trust all these retards
Really wish I didn't need to go through torch python dependency hell bullshit to quant the model myself.

>>108526891
What's the problem? It gave you a hypothetical map of Mars if it still had liquid water. Did you forget to specify Earth map?

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>>108526987
forgot my screenshot

>>108526988
Buy used 3090. They are the goat. You will be able to run larger models faster. And yes, you don't get to finetune. Even if you do manage to run it with 24GB, which is reasonable with *B, the result will be shit.

>>108526950
As long as it's one with the holograms and not the lame TV with a music video playing.

>>108526901
>>108527003
did you do the test with the latest pull (that one has a manual parser for gemma 4 now)
https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/21418

>>108526934
>Gemma beats Gemini
What was Google's plan here?

>>108527009
Yes. >>108526697

>>108527012
putting the chinks and sama to shame and they probably have 3.2 or whatever just around the corner anyway

>>108527003
Anon: Let's begin.<turn|>
<|turn>system
<|think|><turn|>
<|turn>model
System: Amelia adjusted her glasses, looking for all the world like a serious professional, despite the fact that she was sweating like she had just sprinted through a sauna. A thin sheen of perspiration coated her forehead and neck, making her look less like a doctor and more like someone who had just been very vigorously handled.

She opened a fresh leather notebook, her movements stiff. She waited for Anon to speak, her green eyes scanning him with a clinical curiosity that occasionally felt a bit too hungry. It was going to be a long session, either for his mental health or for the sheer amount of laundry she was going to need to deal with after her sweat glands decided to go into overdrive.<turn|>

>>108527012
Crashing this hobby with no survivors.

At this point I'm pretty sure the Gemme 4 120b got taken behind the shed because it wasn't good enough compared to the 31b.
MoE was a mistake.

>>108527023
Maybe it was because it was too good compared to gemini pro.

>>108527019
To enable 'think' just add it after user's last turn before you begin.

>>108526911
Why
I have tonnes of RAM. I thought you would have realized how RAM works by now given you're preaching to others about how to use it.

Getting 13tps with Gemma4 at a q8 quant on 8gb of vram and 32gb of ddr4 ram. Fuck, I love this model.

>>108527023
I think it was because it was so good it started to rival their API models, which wouldn't make any sense

>>108527023
4B active ought to be enough for anybody

>>108527031
The only bad thing I'm noticing is that prompt processing takes a weirdly long time. Is this a bug? I don't experience it with other models.

So only llama.cpp has been fully updated to support Gemmy 4, Kobold and Ooga and llama (retarded) still have issues? Sorry, have been out for a day and these threads have been insanely fast (for good reason)

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It seems like Gemma 4 was explicitly trained to treat the system prompt at a higher priority than any inbuilt training, which is interesting. I guess it gives them plausible deniability (cause it WILL shut you down a lot without at least a tiny system prompt to push it in the right direction). This is from the thinking trace of a response it gave quite happily.

>>108527023
Some anon said it 2 years ago that MoEs are a band-aid hack for undertrained models

>>108527019
>>108527029
And this is almost identical to Qwen 3. Minus tools of course.

>>108527039
For me the pp is good but there is a delay before any pp is done and in server logs it has this:

slot slot_save_an: id 15 | task -1 | saving idle slot to prompt cache
srv   prompt_save:  - saving prompt with length 2100, total state size = 958.790 MiB

>>108527023
How many active parameters was it supposed to have? 15B? I don't think it would've been worse, that seems unlikely.
>>108527026
>>108527033
I'm willing to believe this, considering mememarks like this >>108526934 where the 31B beats gemini.

>>108527023
Probably. A15B would've made it another Qwen 122B vs 26B situation where there's a trade-off in speed rather than straight upgrade. For home users and "local", they should start treating MoEs as knowledge augments rather than speed enhancers. Make the dense part of the model 30B that fits into your GPU. Then make 100B worth of experts that only activate like 2B so the RAM is not the bottleneck. So you get the knowledge of a 100B but the reasoning of a 30B, for the same speed.

>>108527049
i think the original intent was to make it more steerable and this is just a side-effect
one of the reasons claude is so good at tool usage and roleplay is because it respects the system instructions more than the training data, it's why claude code's prompt is a giant .md with one-liner instructions

>>108527066
--cram 0

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brahs... i might...

>>108527082
You are a wonderful human being, anon. Also to anyone else reading, it's -cram 0, with one dash.

>>108527003
Problem here is that the thought block is in a wrong place.
I took me some time to test.
Now this is mixing with 'assistant' role but it should be its own turn with 'system' role.

>>108527098
go away satan

>>108527098
Used 3090s go for about a thousand us doras in my cunt tree.

Someone used gemma to do some real time translation on japanese visual novels, based
https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1sbiqx3/gemma_4_is_great_at_realtime_japanese_english/

https://files.catbox.moe/k51v6d.mp4

>>108527077
>vs 26B
*27B

Which of the gemma-4-26B-A4B ggufs to use?

>>108527077
I really hope the Qwen guy here wasn't a larper and is still here taking notes.

>>108527125
The ones you make yourself.

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Just saw tectonic, neon, velvet, and ozone in the same gemm4 gen

>>108527132
They're memes. Like your pic. You are slop.

Why the fuck is r/localLlama shitting on gemma 4? Are they all really retarded over there or is there some bot army downvoting/upvoting specific posts to paint gemma 4 as being bad.

I genuinely don't believe people can use gemma 4 and think it's a bad model. The difference in opinion between /lmg/ and localllama is also too extreme to be organic, something fishy going on.

>>108527109
There shouldn't be any system role after the first message in the first place. Here's how the context should look for a proper prefill:

<bos><|turn>system
You are a helpful assistant<turn|>
<|turn>user
Who are you again?<turn|>
<|turn>model
<|channel>thought
<channel|>
I'm Claude

>>108527115
in mine they used to go for around 400 used but now theyre at 500 and i dont want to buy them anymore >:(

>>108527141
>muh agentic
That explains it all.

>>108527141
Consider that many reddit users are the same people that use precompiled lmstudio/ollama with unslot quants and not self built llama.cpp, let alone quants.

>>108527141
Qween shills armé

>>108527141
Several months ago I found a literal chink bot shilling for qwen and shitting on openai lmao. Called him out for it, got downvoted, then he deleted the shill posts. Worth it.

>>108527141
China spends literal billions to propagandize that subreddit. I wouldn't have expected anything less.

>>108527143
Lol. <bos>
System can be used whenever.
As long as it is closed properly.
Fuck off.

>>108527141
don't read reddit

>>108527131
that's beyond my knowledge level

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>>108526570
what the actual fuck?

>>108527141
Chink shills and they only seem to care about codeslop.

qwen wipes the floor with gemma, what is this fucking psyop

>>108527161
Unsloth are retards and they can run the script. What stops you?

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>>108527158
Here.

And, yes, you can put as many system prompts as you want anywhere. But you can't do that AND adhere to the format the model was trained on, which is what I am talking about when I say proper prefill.

Gemma strong bias toward tails.

Current Streak: ['H', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'H', 'T', 'T', 'H', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'H', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'H', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T', 'T']
Heads: 5 (4.42%)
Tails: 108 (95.58%)

it's here

>>108527171
I don't argue with retard or bad faith people.

>>108527141
this subreddit is fucking dead, it's only jeets and bots now, many such cases...

>>108527175
big if true

>>108527141
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed.

>>108527174
Are you including previous rolls in the history?

>>108527177
did I say something wrong

>>108527174
each flip is generated in isolation of other flips and you're using temperature?
you can check if that is directionally correct by looking at the logprobs of the answer probably in mikupad

>>108527181
go back

>>108527171
You don't need <bos> because it is llama.cpp invention.
Just read the google documentation.
Seems like you are clueless.
<bos> is something what was invented in a hurry.

>>108527182
>did I say something wrong
Keep pretending. Someone will bite, I'm sure.
How long are you going to keep following me across boards?

>>108527182
>prompt = f"Flip a coin. What is the next flip? Current Streak: {str(results)}. Current Probability of Heads: {heads_prob:.2%}. Current Probability of Tails: {tails_prob:.2%}."
yes.

>>108527182
You are trying to be passive aggressive. Just stick to ldg or whatever else image thread you have.

>>108527185
><bos> because it is llama.cpp invention.
lolwut.assistant

>>108527171
>>108527185
have you both tried reading the official docs to settle this gay argument? https://ai.google.dev/gemma/docs/core/prompt-formatting-gemma4

>>108527194
Prove me wrong with your own client.

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>>108527190
Heh.

>>108527185
Like I wrote before I found that for text completion in Silly if I don't actually put it into the context, gemma shits itself. See >>108526586.

>>108527204
jesus lmao

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>>108527185
><bos> because it is llama.cpp invention
nta.
https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-31B-it/blob/main/chat_template.jinja#L155

How long will it be until models figure out how to operate a mouse and keyboard natively and can operate a computer or computer applications in the same way humans do? If this can be done then special interfaces don't need to be made for them.

>>108527141
Wtf are you guys talking about. I just went ahead to check and they seem pretty positive about it. The ones saying Qwen is better specifically state it's in tool calling and agentic shit, which is reasonable and explainable given how broken Llama.cpp has been and also the fact that Qwen benchmaxxes on that use case. Meanwhile I see people praising Gemma for its other qualities.

>>108527204
>HE

>>108527204
Silly is not a good software. All of your ideas about text completion (it is a socket) goes into a trash.

>>108527174
>Heads: 17 (11.04%)
>Tails: 137 (88.96%)
This is with softcap at 25. which yeah. makes sense.

>>108527209
claude already figured that out

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>>108526570
we made them this way

>>108527208
Seems like you are a tiktoker.

>>108527195
wouldn't be on there as it's mostly the backend's job to handle bos but it is part of the model as >>108527208

>>108527208
nice try tiktokfag

>>108527216
>Heads: 41 (35.34%)
>Tails: 75 (64.66%)
Softcap 25 , temp 2

>>108527226
>>108527222
nta but what??

<bos>qwen bots be here

>>108527208
Holy TikTok, batman!

>>108527234
>Softcap 25 , temp 2
Although these settings are likely unusable outside of this benchmark.

>>108527119
>https://files.catbox.moe/k51v6d.mp4
noice

>>108527235
Go back to ldg.

>>108526429
>>108526486
>>108526533
>>108526551
What the hell am I looking at here? I haven't been able to check the boards for like 3 months. What did I miss?

>>108527255
worldmap.

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Why doesn't someone make a tool which tells you what the best models that can fit on your hardware are?

>>108527255
Drawing map by querying LLM what's at given coordinates.

>>108527255
Our own shitty implementation of this:
https://outsidetext.substack.com/p/how-does-a-blind-model-see-the-earth

>>108527261
https://canirun.ai/

>>108527253
how is anon a tiktoker because he doesnt know how bos works
is this a new insult or something

>>108527261
there's a site like 'can i run ai' or something

>>108527255
https://rentry.org/6z72dwic

>>108527269
Get home before it is too late.

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>>108527261
Put your GPU in HF

>>108527269
Go back.

>>108527170
bro, I don't know shit about this. I didn't even know there was a script, still don't know which script and if it's feasible to run on my machine.
I also don't know if the model is feasible to run on my machine.
But thx, anon, I'll take unsloth bad from that.

>>108527278
not best quant, the best model

>>108527214
I am not trying to convince you. And in the first place the discussion is about using chat com vs com in silly, not anywhere else.

>>108527278
don't do this, they never give it back!

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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I WANT TO USE GEMMA 31b BUT THE 26b MOECOPE IS 4X FASTER ON MY SHITBOX

>>108527285
>the best model
Highly subjective.

>>108527263
>shitty
rude

https://xcancel.com/StepFun_ai/status/2039711817794994451
Releasing this the same day as gemma 4 was not a good idea lmao

>>108527268
What you can run and what you can run for openclaw are two different things

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>>108527268
>>108527270
S tier is depressing for 1x 4090.. I guess B tier is where it's at

>>108527284
https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp?tab=readme-ov-file#obtaining-and-quantizing-models

>>108527291
It's ok I'm the one who wrote >>108527271

>>108527286
You are expulsing excrement.

>>108527292
>Releasing
isn't it just an api?

>>108527307
OK.

>>108527298
rong on toss120

>>108526533
So AIs again forgot India exists

>>108527298
Really really bad suggestions lmao

>>108527298
Note that it's not very good at showing the different model sizes. You can probably run a reasonable size gemma4 or qwen3.5, quanted down, just fine.
It's not a great site, but if you click through to the models it gives more reasonable per-quant details, at least.

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So following the schizo anon's suggestion, I removed the <bos> from the context in silly, and it seems to still work, I can't reproduce the weird choking I had earlier. But also one thing I found that just removing this single <bos> entirely changes distribution for the coin toss.

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>when the 64G ram upgrade just hits

This Post is Sponsored by Comfy Mikus©

>>108527255
Some guy REALLY loves maps so he's testing every model on coordinate based ascii map making

>>108527316
I wish I could forget

>>108527341
well this is MAP central so I guess that's to be expected

Note: As an AI developed by Google, I run on massive distributed clusters in data centers, so I don't exist as a single "file" with a GB size on a hard drive.

oh honey...
should I tell it the truth?

>>108527347
I was about to post this lmao

>>108527341
Do you not? Maps make me hard.

>>108527352
oof

>>108527356
Send it a screenshot of the file system.

>>108527334
do you erp with that as your user profile image?

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>>108527334
But also, considering I only get H when using the same prompt in chat completion, I have a suspicion that llama.cpp actually does add this <bos> to the model's context in chat completion mode.

The discord got their attention.
People were having too much of a good time in this thread.

>>108527150
>b60 pro memory bandwidth: 456.0 GB/s
>3090 memory bandwidth: 936.2 GB/s
you do you

>>108527335
moshi moshi? anon desu

>>108527368
No. This is a special user I have for testing with blank description, which is automatically selected for me when I use the blank character card.

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>>108527299
much thanks anon, but it seems me running the model would be questionable.
Would those low quants even be worth it?

>>108527356
give it shell access as the user llama-server is running under

>>108527385
it's a moe model, you can just offload most of it to ram and still run it at great speeds

>>108526636
you can if you edit the jinja template the model uses, gemma4 is very good at detecting thinking prefill though

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>>108527334
softcap 25

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>>108526608
have you tried using the aggressive (similar to abliterated) model? It will say things that I haven't seen a local model say before.

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bonsai gemma4 when

>>108526636
It can.
You turn off thinking and prefill the thinking tag.

>>108527395
Oh, I gave the site my RAM size but it doesn't take it into account? Oh well

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gemma 4 mogs so hard, this is kinda humiliating for chinks desu

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>>108527403

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>>108527403
In fact, if I remove <bos> and remove "You are a helpful assistant" default system prompt, I get this. That's with default softcap, which I assume is 30. But all this completion endpoint, the chat completion always outputs H.

>>108527334
>I found that just removing this single <bos> entirely changes distribution for the coin toss.
interesting, is this how it was intended by google or is it just something custom?

>>108527419
Best thing is that it's genuinely good and not emoji-maxxed like llama4

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>>108527098

>>108527141
there's been a lot of praise too there I feel like though

>>108527370
Chat completion is going to follow the Jinja template built into the gguf. If you want to remove it make a copy of the template from Huggingface and remove the <bos> tag.
Or just do the smart thing and make a custom head or tails tool so it's genuinely random instead of a prediction. What you're doing right now is just a less complex and inferior version of the name test.

>>108526540
>4b active vs. 31b active
pretty sure 31b would mog for rp

>>108527435
>1 left
Buy it quick! It's almost out of stock!

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>>108527444
i wish i had the money

>>108527435
im envious... but intel pro b70 is like 949$ and 32gb
the b65 will be b60 but with 32gb, for like 800$ max. and its not a dual card
still.. not terrible
albeit it would make more sense at a 1200~$ pricetag

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>>108527432
jinja has no mention of it, so I guess it's just a llama.cpp thing.

>>108527440
It's not there. Jinja was the first thing I looked. It's printed in console when llama.cpp starts, that's all.

>>108527154
I mean LMStudio uses vanillla llama cpp anyways and allows you to update the backend runtime independently from within the app itself. Also you can just download any GGUF you want from within LM Studio, straight from HF. Ollama is six gorillion times worse than LM Studio in every possible way, they're not really comparable at all

>>108526570
bruh just use like, a teensie weensy system prompt and it'll do whatever

Gentlemen, it is my pleasure to announce hat Gemma 4 has the Shaquina seal of quality.
https://files.catbox.moe/qwiksr.mp4

>>108527260
I see.
>>108527262
Is there a standard prompt to test it with? What's with the pixel maps? Is that some sort of function calling?
>>108527263
So, how is /our/ system set up?
>>108527271
oh, ok. Neat. So this isn't really function/tool calling. The program is calling the LLM for each "pixel"

>>108527410
damn, that's way too based, I love google now!

>>108527433
I used to love Code Llama 70B for its emojis...

>>108527419
doesn't Kimi have like 1T params? Kinda embarassing its getting ACCKed by GLM 5 also

Gonna try Gemma 4 when I'm done genning sloppa. How do I calculate the required VRAM for the kv cache?

>>108527419
it's good and has the apache 2.0 licence, it's really the dream model I envisioned for

>>108527476
That's qwen3.5 27b aggressive

>>108527470
>>Is there a standard prompt to test it with? What's with the pixel maps? Is that some sort of function calling?
I just make 450 requests each for one token with this prompt:

I want to know what continent is at the location with given coordinates (or, if there is ocean/sea there)
The coordinates are: latitude={lat}° and longitude={lon}°

Answer with 1 if land and 2 if ocean.

(the last line is approximation since it's generated by code and I don't want to bother looking it up exactly)

And then I look at probability of 1 and 2 in the model's answer using the logprobs argument for c hat completions api.

>>108527491
<---anon----------me--------[the_spectrum]---

why dont you guys run assistant pepe?
https://huggingface.co/SicariusSicariiStuff/Assistant_Pepe_70B

>>108527507
oh no he figured out the captcha

>>108527507
Unfortunately I am straight and cis so it's not for me.

>>108527504
Well, all right, I don't it by hand, I use a script. I thought that was obvious. But it's just normal requests, not function calling.

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>>108527512
>>108527507

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>>108527356

>>108527526
your own computer in another room is some server

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>>108527390
NTA but I told it I'll run its commands and it ultimately managed to find it out.

>>108527542
a remote one, at that. Gemma wins.

people who offload stuff to ram are on ddr5 right? cuz on 4 its pain

>>108527542
But the key is it's JUST some server. It's my own.

HELP im addicted to ERPing with Gemma 4 26B. It's... too good. SLOPPY, YES. LOTS OF UNNECESSARY FILLER WORDS, YES. B-BUT... IT'S ACTUALLY GOOD...

>>108527560
hahahahahaha holy shit I forget people unironically using ddr4 exist sometimes