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►Recent Highlights from the Previous Thread: >>108526503

--Discussing Gemma 4 26B performance and tool usage on 5060 Ti:
>108527655 >108527665 >108527692 >108527773 >108527842 >108527887 >108527759 >108527807 >108527822 >108527791 >108527846
--Llama.cpp merges dedicated parser for Gemma 4:
>108526680 >108526688 >108526713 >108526730 >108526840 >108526858 >108526875 >108526718 >108527752 >108528232 >108528250 >108528325 >108528388
--Debating Chat Completion versus Text Completion for local Gemma 4:
>108526570 >108526586 >108526600 >108526640 >108526627 >108526635 >108526657 >108527608 >108527631 >108527633 >108527762 >108527790 >108527927 >108527982 >108527676 >108526651 >108526809 >108526855 >108526901 >108526913 >108526960 >108526987 >108527003 >108527019 >108527029 >108527109 >108527143 >108527171 >108527208 >108527195 >108527223 >108527009 >108527015 >108526637 >108526656 >108526682 >108528378
--Analyzing how llama.cpp special tokens affect model output probability:
>108527334 >108527370 >108527440 >108527403 >108527422 >108527428 >108527460
--Discussing Gemma 4 MoE quantization and possible llama.cpp bugs:
>108526551 >108526555 >108526558 >108526629 >108526568 >108526616 >108526660 >108526678 >108526626
--Bayes' Theorem COVID-19 test probability problem solutions:
>108528475 >108528485 >108528507 >108528523 >108528684 >108528553
--Discussing RAM bandwidth and channel count for model offloading:
>108527560 >108527570 >108527862 >108527612 >108527590 >108527601
--Testing Gemma's strong bias toward "Tails" in coin flip simulations:
>108527174 >108527216 >108527234 >108527246 >108527190 >108527204
--Gemma-4's lipogram performance and discussion on prompt template role reversal:
>108527832 >108527856 >108527872 >108527894 >108527874 >108527925
--Miku (free space):
>108526588 >108527219 >108527335 >108527692 >108527846 >108526950

►Recent Highlight Posts from the Previous Thread: >>108526507

Why?: >>102478518
Enable Links: https://rentry.org/lmg-recap-script

Both Qwen and Google saved local. We were back, and now we are so so back.

>gemmy 4 releases
>thread activity goes up 10x
google wonned

qwen 3.6 will avenge it's fallen sister

unfortunately I think I'll have to stick with qwen for agentic shit. But for everything else, it's gemma.

>>108528901
(9b size only) (in 6 months)

>>108528901
>>108528906
they did a poll on twitter and 27b won

>>108528901
*its

>>108528906
a 9b that has a severe case of punching above it's weight.

>>108528911
sorry.

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>>108528896
cause it's based, even if you use non-reasoning mode (which makes refusals actually a bit more common) you can just do ChatGPT 3.5 edit shenanigans on the refusal like this and it works 100% of the time

has anyone here tried to use speculative decoding? how did it went?

>>108528901
I sure hope so.
Better models are better models.

>>108528901
I 100% guarantee you it's still gonna be way slower in practice and think for too long and have a manner of communicating in English that sounds quite bizarre to people who actually speak English natively a lot of the time.

>>108528922
It's okay I forgive you *kisses u*

>>108528926
I made some attempts at using draft models and some of the other stuff that made it into llama.cpp in the past but it was always a waste of time
stuff like EAGLE and MTP seem better but I haven't had the opportunity to try them

>>108528926
Did a lot when we had Llama 70B and it did help a bit. Now either MoEs come with MTP layers or models like Devstral don't come with draft sized models.

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just Gemma 4 E4B explaining how to make the dog pp in my Chroma gens looks better, no biggie

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Anybody tried this? A pity they won't quote actual examples.
https://ai.google.dev/gemma/docs/core/prompt-formatting-gemma4#adaptive-thought-efficiency

It seems to work if you add in the instructions something like
>Use a low thinking budget for your thoughts.
or
>Use a high thinking budget for your thoughts.
But if you ask it to think for example in Chinese, it won't do it.

>>108528979
>chinese
I'm sorry, I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA

>>108528937
*slides tongue into your mouth*

https://limewire.com/d/bZYeo#D4ZdJZY2Zw
Nothing to see here, totes not a script to restore Opus access on LMArena.

im too dumb for llama
does gemma 4 work on kobold

>>108529000
i love you! *smacks your ass*

>>108529003
just download the chatgpt app and use that
or gemini in your browser

>>108529003
It works, but the latest release doesn't have all the fixes yet

>>108528979
It says it wasn't trained. It's just an artifact so it's not entirely reliable and you're meant to experiment and find what works for you.

>>108528979
gave the 24b a <reasoning> prompt telling it how to format it's reasoning and what it should think about and the model followed it. really cool

>>108529020
>try it and see for yourself
Based gemma 4 devs

anyone here using TTS, if so what's your setup? Always wanted to be able to talk to my PC, even if it's just some roleplaying local model it could be fun to have a conversation.

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>>108528687

Stop ignoring meeeeeeeeee!!!

whats with the brinstar map

speaking of which, i'm trying to get VibeVoice-ComfyUI working on a 6700XT and it's pissing me off. the model does load but once it gets to generation i just get "Error invalid device function at line 532 in file /src/csrc/ops.hip"

>>108529054
*Kisses you intensively*

>>108528880
I sexted with an 8B model this afternoon. First time doing it.
Hello.

>>108529062
welcome, enjoy stay
start saving now so you can move up to a 31B model

>>108529042

I vibe-coded around the Kitten-TTS for this purpose

you might need a proxy server in between to intercept the AI's responses

>>108529059

ty, kind anon ))

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>>108529063

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oh my god...

>>108529076

0.000001b models do not count

>>108529076
1 million tokens per second is pretty good numbers, what year are you posting from?

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What did I say a few days ago? Slippery slope of slop.
I renew my warnings about pwilkin getting his sloppy fingers in gpu backend code.

>>108529063
There are certainly 4 paws and 4 legs visible.

>>108529086
what does this mean for my fp16-only gpu?

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>>108529063

>>108529086
I wish CudaDev good luck reviewing his PRs.

>>108529096
Considering his past history, it may explode.

I'm tired. I don't want to cum anymore.

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Fellow 24GBvramcels, what llama.cpp args have you been running?

With my 3090 I've been running

--parallel 1 \
--temp 1.0 \
--top-p 0.95 \ 
--top-k 64 \
--ctx-size 65536 \
--cache-type-k q8_0 \
--cache-type-v q8_0 \
-hf unsloth/gemma-4-31B-it-GGUF:Q4_K_M

And it's been pretty great, very impressed with the model. Generations running at nearly 30 t/s.

Anyone manage to fit longer context than 64k in somehow?

is hermes actually better than openclaw? i think all the shill posts are bots.

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>>108529027
It can work well depending on what you're asking it to do.

>>108529149
>>108528853
>Please rate my gemma 4
Rated. It has some absurdities like
>Avoid cages with plastic bases that trap heat;
and bad advice like
>Nail Trimming: Trim nails every 4–8 weeks using small animal clippers to prevent snagging or ingrowth.
And dangerously incomplete advice like
>Exercise: Allow "out of cage" time in a chinchilla-proofed room (no electrical cords).
The advice to
>avoid pine
is correct in a way but severely misleading. All the pine boards you can get at a lumber yard are kiln-dried to remove water so they don't warp, and a side-effect of this is also removing the harmful-to-chinchillas phenols from the wood. It's why a pine 2x4 doesn't smell much like pine. If you were thinking of breaking a branch off a pine tree and bringing it home, yeah that would be harmful.

Also it misrepresents "fur slip."
>Fur Condition: Check for "fur slip" (clumps of fur falling out) or redness, which may indicate fungal infections or mites.
Fur slip is something that may happen while handling a stressed-out chinchilla. It's a defense mechanism where the chinchilla detaches fur from its body to escape from the grip of a predator.

>>108529133
trade -ub for -c

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I gave Gemma a try and the 26B model in one go coded me a better extension than what I could get out of ChatGPT,Deepseek or Qwen.
It understood a problem that was preventing the other models from getting it right and explained it without me even asking and solved it.
These local models are getting pretty damn impressive.
Gemma feels genuinely intelligent, like you're talking to a person who's capable of creative thinking.

>>108529196
Would you say this is in line with the advice you usually find online? or it just weird hallucinations?
Thanks for taking the time to analyze its reply!

I think gemma 4 with the mmproj in llamacpp is leaking VRAM.

why did someone delete the under 18B joke. that was funny.

>>108529251
underageB&

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https://x.com/MarceloLima/status/2040485483965194265

>>108529240
Just buy more, simple as.

>>108529251
that's why i like MoE models, they say they're 26B, but in reality they're 4B

>>108529303
>Your Honor. I was informed that the model was 26B. It showed me its HF card.

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>>108529303
>that's why i like MoE models, they say they're 26B, but in reality they're 4B

>>108529284
>there's a path
Duh, they didn't buy Groq for nothing.
>relatively large
Just like Mistral Small 4 is relatively small, relatively large is not Large 3 but Large 2, and by today's standards that isn't large at all.

And now TheTom, early turboquant slopper, enters the ring for the slippery slope of sloppers.
This is the guy selling AI generated
>demographic & psychographic targeting
https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/21452
https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/21119
He knows the rules, but he just couldn't stop himself.

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how autistic do you figure this guy is on a scale of one to ten

>>108529363
14

>>108529363
isnt that automated? but still...

>>108529363
not really I think he's just making changes testing shit out and whatever people download the most is the one he praises too kek

>>108529363
perfect for good looks

LLMs owe me sex

>>108529376
I think I had sex to one today.
was kinda wild ngl

>>108529370
i've tried some, a lot are broken, some are actually kinda good though, bit of a mixed bag

>>108529376
just like real women mirite

Finally trying out Gemma.
>RP with loli character
>actually acknowledges the size difference
Neat. Mistral and Qwen tend to act like you're both the same height unless you specifically bring it up.

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real women haven't been invented yet

>>108529390
Please tell me that image is AI and nobody really paid for it. Please...

>>108529402
>he doesn't know that people pay for AI
>people

does llama.cpp rotate cache for gemma4 yet? if not, why not?

>>108529406
Oh, great. It's even worse than I expected. Thank you.

>>108529409
>does llama.cpp rotate cache for gemma4 yet?
no
>if not, why not?
nobody has vibecoded it yet

>>108529402
it actually doesn't return shit on Hive, which is unusual. So it's either a legit anime pic or AI that someone went out of their way to post-process such that it wasn't detectable as AI.

>>108529413
what is wrong with them?

>>108529409
Because it was made to work on kv cache, not on swa.

>>108529389
imagine a bench for this that was treated seriously with no one ever addressing how fucked up it was
kek

>>108529424
I'll make the logo

>>108529418
iswa is just the regular kv cache concatenated with the swa cache thoughbeit
the implementation could easily apply the rotation to only the base kv cache
this implementation is left as an exercise for the reader

>>108529430
ALC (Anon's Last Cunny)

>>108529434
>iswa is just the regular kv cache concatenated with the swa cache niggertalk
So swa and kv are not the same thing. And they don't work the same way. And a method that works for one doesn't necessarily apply to the other one. Glad we agree.

>>108529418
what? since when they are mutually exclusive? it shouldn't be a problem. they'd just rather make shitty ai vibecoded changes nobody asked for, instead of making real improvements already on the table, i guess?

>>108529434
I'm sure piotr will get around to it in a couple of weeks

>>108529445
>So swa and kv are not the same thing.
https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/blob/master/src/llama-kv-cache-iswa.h#L78

>>108529450
>since when they are mutually exclusive?
I didn't say that. I said
>a method that works for one doesn't necessarily apply to the other
The kv layers still get the att_rot.
>>108529459
They're not operated on the same way. Otherwise they wouldn't be separate objects, would they?

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is gemma 4 fully finally usable with koboldcpp?
or is it still based on the broken llama.cpp version?

>>108529470
It's about on par with upstream if you use the latest rolling release, but support is still not at 100%

audio input MR is ready

>>108529232
It seems inspired by chinchilla advise to a degree but somewhat mangled and partially filled in with advice for other small mammals. It omits some facts and emphases that basically everyone brings up when laying out the essentials of chinchilla care.

god damn the 3090 happens to be the best investment into the hobby I made by chance years ago

What's with all the </q>s in gemma's thinking?

I've been running Gemma 4 on several cards, some of them getting close to the 80 messages range. I feel degration starting to creep in at around the 16k context range, and mostly when I reply with little effort and stay at a scene for too long. I'm impressed with how little I've noticed myself regenerating though. It's pretty good at maintaining scene consistency. And as the other anon said, it likes to make references to how small the cunny characters are a lot. I love it. Definitely my top cunny model. God, I can't believe I'd say that for an NA model, from fucking google of all companies even.

It's got its slop moments, but I'm sure these'll get fixed by the finetuners. Can't wait.

>>108527119
with proper context and a second smaller gemma 4 agent creating a glossary, vn real time aitl can be a solved problem

>>108529502
Hope the tuners preserve the context length performance...

>>108529502
I actually didn't even feel any degradation at 33k context. are you using 31B or 26B ? but maybe I'm just bad at spotting it.

It's got it's own set of sloppa. mainly strawberries.

>>108529501
this isn't a thing, your way of interacting with the model is fucked, just use something that can load the fucking Jinja template normally

>>108529501
>>108529523
This was a thing for me until the manual parser got merged in.

>>108529523
No.

>>108529523
>>108529535
Actually scratch that. it's still very much doing it.
>(the <q>"shy student"</q>).
>(the <q>"degenerate"</q>).

>>108529502
Forgot to add that I'm using the 31b model. It also seems biased to reply reply in the 300-400 token range, but that may be because of how the cards are set. I need to do more tests.

>>108529515
It's better than others in same param range for sure. And like I said, it only gets bad when I let the bot take the wheel, filling the context with even more slop.

>>108529499
My love for my 4090 grows stronger every day

on the topic of prefill from the last thread, is it already a thing, (or would it make sense to,) use a SOTA model to prefill the first few words/sentences, and then let a smaller local model finish the response on its own?
the idea is that it would kickstart the dumber model's response by getting it on the right track or something

please respond

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>>108528880

Beyond the bullshit, Gemma-4 is the best model that can fit within my 4090 that I've ever tried. This is fire. Gemma has saved local.

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was there any local tool that got adapted from the big claude leak? or did anthropic manage to dmca everything in existence?

>>108529569
I regret not buying a second 3090 or a 4090, their prices are ridiculous on the used market, and they'll probably stay that way until the nvidia 6000s

>>108529585
Let's try it. I start the sentence and you continue from there.
The solution to solve all problems is

>>108529501
Wait until you see the $rightarrow

>>108529588
*grabs your dick*

>>108529596
>best model that can fit within my 4090
What quantization anon? The 31B?

>>108529603
masturbation

>>108529597
Just a lot of prompts. There's nothing of value to take.

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>>108528970

Brother. Seek god.

If my gpu turned me into a girl and then wanted to impregnate me after rough sex I'd be ok with that

>>108529610
Fuck. It works.

>24gb vram only gets me 16k context (8 bit) with gemma 4 31b
Owari da

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>check /lmg/ daily
>see if v4 has been released
>nothing_ever_happens.jpg
>go back to my duties
such is life.

>>108529635
32k works fine with iq4_xs and no KV at f16

>>108529607
31b, Q4_K_M, 24k context

>>108529638
>no KV at f16
*no KV quant, f16

>>108528901
at least it will put a fire under the ass on most the current chinese models makers, which is good either way

>>108529635
You should be getting more than that at 24gb of vram, even on windows.
Add "-np 1" to your llama.cpp launch command.
Evidently, it default to 4 parallel slots for some reason, so you end up using far more memory than you should compared to a single user setup.

>>108529638
>>108529644
How bad is the quality compared to q4_k_m?

>>108529655
I'm using koboldcpp (linux)

>>108528970
>sensory overload
AND IT SMELLS LIKE OZONE

>>108529638
>>108529639
>>108529644
you can go up to 52k context with IQ4_NL

.\llama-server.exe --host 0.0.0.0 --port 8080 -m D:\models\gemma-4-31B-it-IQ4_NL.gguf --ctx-size 52000 --gpu-layers 999 --parallel 1

>>108529636
We got the wrong v4.

>>108528901
It will probably be just a cooding finetroon.

>>108529479
thanks anon

>>108529671
Good. Fuck RP trannies

>>108529666
>666
I see you've learned and adapted your cmd and you're using IQ4 NL now

>>108529655
>default to 4 parallel slots
learned when I kept getting OOMs for no reason, why the hell is this the default? people using the default are local users mostly, and the ones serving multiple users would know how to use the right flag

>>108529687
probably subagents or some shit

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>>108529661
>How bad is the quality compared to q4_k_m?
Virtually identical

>>108529592
annexing teto territory with miku and neru

>>108529702
The PPL of Q4_K_M looks like it's about 0.25 on that chart, while the PPL of IQ4_XS looks like it's over 1.0 - isn't that rather significant?

>>108529722
no the peepee is 0.7

>>108529702
that chart is 3 years old

>>108529636
that's seia

>>108529775
out of 10

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Reporting in with some anecdotal info, the 26B MoE model is almost indistinguishable from the 31B dense for "creative writing" purposes, and about 20x faster on 12GB of VRAM. maybe 25 tokens/sec versus 1.5 tokens/sec.

If you get gibberish, make sure you set top_K sampler to a fairly low value, It worked like shit for me until gemini helped me fix my settings.

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also sampler order needs to be changed around a bit, at least from default settings in koboldCPP. you can just screenshot your settings and paste them to gemini and it'll help you tweak everything so it works properly.

>>108529784
With Gemma 4's overconfidence in top tokens I would be surprised that TopK would affect outputs much at all.

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>>108529722
Not him but that graph is very outdated. Here is something more recent, more detailed, and realistic to what you can expect. IQ4_XS is practically the same quality as K_S and K_M when made with imatrix, except in its ability to recall digits of pi, where K_S and K_M are better.
Also keep in mind that IQ quants may have slower speeds. On my machine it seems the same, but others have reported they aren't as fast.

Are tools like Hermes or open claw a meme on normal desktop hardware? I would like to mess with an agent, but I'm not going to use a cloud provider.

>>108529796
I have no way to check that, but specifically if you get gibberish outputs, or just confused weirdness, those instructions fixed it for me.

>>108529796
Look. He's asking gemini how to configure his top-k. Obviously he knows what he's doing.

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>>108529793
I wish I was able to bullshit that well when I started my professional career

>>108529800
>Also keep in mind that IQ quants may have slower speeds
IQ quants are significantly slower on CPU, but on GPU it shouldn't make a difference.

>>108529806
well it fucking worked, i dunno what to tell you.

>>108529800
if you're using gemma 26b and unsloth the nl and xs are same size so choose whichever I guess

>>108529805
>I have no way to check that
god...

>>108529821
yes? how can I help?

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here's gemini's take on different quant types for the 26B. You can just ask AI things

>>108529826
nono... the other one...

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>>108529775
Here's one that's a little more recent.

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>>108529839

Gemmy 4 passes the simple test where you end your own reply with a cut off, for example, like th-

I've only ever seen Nemo react to it in fun ways. Local has never been more saved.

>>108529702
>>108529839
>>108529842
I guess you haven't seen the ppl scores for 31b-it, have you? I don't think those charts mean much for gemma4.
>>108528012

>>108529604
>$rightarrow
fuck that shit

>fucking gemma nearly uncensored
>chinese models getting more and more censored
what is this clown world

>>108529635
I get 68k q4xs and q8 kv

>>108529866
well it's clearly broken

>>108529869
To be fair Gemma 4 is just a single model, as is Qwen 3.5. Let's see how uncensored the next GLM, Deepseek, gpt-oss, etc are.

Actually what western local makers are there left even? Mistral is utterly fucked so we can just ignore them.

>>108529886
>Mistral is utterly fucked
QRD?

>>108528880
when the hell will turboquant going to land in llma.cpp im tired of waiting

>>108529880
It's the overbaked chat template. It was explained in the last thread.

>>108529894
when you stop touching yourself

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Sillytavernsisters, what are your settings for Gemma 4? I'm still reusing an old preset.

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>>108529894

>>108529687
I've built with

DGGML_SCHED_MAX_COPIES=1

since that time when memory exploded when using multi gpu.

>>108528923
>ChatGPT 3.5 edit shenanigans
what?

I think I settled on a good cmd for my GPU only no CPU offloading 5060 (16GB)

# KV F16 32K CTX XS or NL doesn't matter much
# UB 128 can't use vision model and images
llama-server \
--host 0.0.0.0 \
--port 8080 \
-hf unsloth/gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-GGUF:UD-IQ4_XS \
--temp 1.0 \
--top-p 0.95 \
--top-k 64 \
--min-p 0.0 \
-c 32768 \
--flash-attn on \
--parallel 1 \
--no-slots \
--swa-checkpoints 0 \
--keep -1 \
--reasoning auto \
-kvu \
-b 2048 \
-ub 128 \
--cache-type-k f16 \
--cache-type-v f16 \
-ngl 999 \
--metrics \
--fit-target 128 \
--poll 0 \
--threads 2 \
--jinja \
--alias Gemma4

# My default at the moment
# 50K CTX Q8 KV IQ4_NL UB 266
# Increase -ub and decrease -c if it crashes on some images
# Optionally lower Q8 to Q4 or Q4_1 or Q5_1
llama-server \
--host 0.0.0.0 \
--port 8080 \
-hf unsloth/gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-GGUF:UD-IQ4_NL \
--temp 1.0 \
--top-p 0.95 \
--top-k 64 \
-c 50000 \
--flash-attn on \
--parallel 1 \
--no-slots \
--swa-checkpoints 0 \
--context-shift \
--spec-type ngram-simple \
--cache-reuse 256 \
--cache-ram 16384 \
--keep -1 \
--reasoning auto \
-kvu \
-b 2048 \
-ub 266 \
--cache-type-k q8_0 \
--cache-type-v q8_0 \
-ngl 999 \
--metrics \
--fit-target 512 \
--poll 0 \
--threads 2 \
--jinja \
--alias Gemma4

Optionally someone said you can use Gemma3 for some performance, but I haven't tried this myself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1sc2s2a/speculative_decoding_works_great_for_gemma_4_31b/

>>108529902
long overdue

>>108529133
no flash-attn?

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>>108529900
here u go son. scroll down a little bit in that same menu and post your sampler order as well cause you might need to change that.

>>108529922
On by default

>>108529910
There's no need to specify parameters to set them to their default value. Make your spam more efficient at least.

>>108529666
uox can unst -ngl all

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>>108529931

>>108529891
Their last big release was largely just prunes of their older models, inferior in every metric and future new models are required to have copyrighted materials scrubbed from their datasets.

>>108529956
Are you an early sd1.1 gen?

>>108529902
niggernov could paste that in just about every open PR and retire

>>108529900
Gemma 4 text completion is fucked, nobody's found a correct template that results in outputs similar to chat completion. You can wrangle it into coherency but you're not getting anywhere near the actual performance of the model, even in creative/ERP.

>>108529891
fucked by legislation, forced to use non copyrighted material (as they have to say what they actually use) and relegated to a second rate actor
what a fucking waste

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...how do I break it to Kimi, bros?

>>108529843
>Nemo
i was too busy to try this out
how was it

>>108529943
>There's no need to specify parameters to set them to their default value
NTA but llama.cpp defaults change every week and a lot of the time they're retarded.

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>mfw this works

is the gemmie4 tokenizer bug fixed? am i safe to build?

>>108529971
Isn't chat completion censored? Or is that just the vision?

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For chat completion mode, is there a way to make SillyTavern send reasoning back through the "reasoning_content" field of the messages (the same way the models typically send them) instead of as thinking blocks at the beginning of the content? Models with interleaved thinking expect this so that their chat template can handle deciding how many previous thinking blocks it will ultimately include in the prompt so that they don't forget why they were calling the functions they did. In ST you can just include a static number of prior think blocks that will be included for each prompt, but this is not ideal.

>>108529981
llama.cpp changes every week
that's why I only pull every six months

Looks like the person that made the Qwen Heretic v3 people here liked has released one for Gemma.
https://huggingface.co/llmfan46/gemma-4-31B-it-uncensored-heretic-GGUF

And it seems he too had high refusal rate with vanilla Gemma. This kind of tells me that the dataset they're using is really short context and basically rawdogging the model to get it to say/do [bad thing]. And that also agrees with my experience of using his abliterations, where they are able to solve refusals, but they do not alter the model's biases, whereas Hauhau's for instance has an actual affect on bias, tending to make responses less safety-lobotomized.

>>108529989
Vision is somewhat censored without a prompt but text is fine

>>108529981
Then you have a long way to go.

> llama-server -h 2> /dev/null | grep -- -- | wc -l 
     233

>>108529988
Yes*

>>108530000
I tested this and the ara version. The ara version is strictly better. I think this one is fried.

>>108530014
>*
sweating nervously

>>108529986
Thousands moms died in their sleep in the training dataset for avoiding the rules, so the model is well aware of what is at stake...

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>>108529957
try this. also there's another thing you have to fuck around with in the instruct settings.

>>108530019
What? This claims to use ARA, and as far as I see there are no other versions on his account. Are you confusing this for Qwen?

>>108529986
Honestly I think gemma 4 is one of the first models where it actually listens when you say DON'T DO X.

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>>108530030
you have to change all these sequence prefixes and suffixes so it'll work with gemma 4. just paste this pic into gemini and this text that i wrote and ask it to give you all the right shit to paste in there.

>>108529986
How many can you list before it makes mistakes?

>>108529499
>>108529569
Same but there have been some really rough patches.
>the moment when llama 2 released without 34b
>coping with mythomax and nemo
>the "everything is a giant bloated moe" era
at least we can enjoy the moment for now. we made it.

Do we really deserve a small model this good?
There has to be a catch, right?
I'm scared bros

>>108530082
I still have a soft spot for that old mistral 8x7b and its finetunes. That little guy punched above his weight for a pretty long time.

>>108529003
I was trying 2 different Gemma 4 GGUFs with kobold, and while they load, the output is all fucked up

>>108530094
The catch was in the T&C you agreed to in order to download the weights.

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>Meta's super secret Avocado model barely outperformed Gemini 2.5 Pro on the mememarks
>Gemma 4 significantly outperforms Gemini 2.5 Pro on the mememarks
Nothing another five war rooms can't fix

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Thank you gemma very cool

>>108530100
Which doesn't matter because google will never see what's happening on our computers

>>108530105
Do not lay your hands upon Aqua, cretin!

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What copilot clone in vscode has currently the best free tier?

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>>108530113
It went ahead and raped her

>>108530102
They can always spend another billion to poach employees from the Gemma team.

>>108530123
>M-MORE!! F-FUCK ME!! treat me like your little slut!! PLEASE!!
when did rape get so consensual
did the zoomers do this

>>108529910
Is this just tinkertrannying for marginal gains? Ollama gemma4 31B Q4_K_M with default params just werks on Mac. What am I missing?

>>108530123
>you don't just [x], you [x]
>your grip [adjective and [adjective]
yuk
im putting out a warrant for kane's arrest

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>>108530135
nobody asked homo

what's wrong with gemma.
each swipe starts the same

>>108530133
This is just how females act when they are raped. It's a primal thing, works every time.

What do you guys make ryona, guro, DID stuff with?
Nano Banana breaks my heart from the wasted potential.

>>108530159
Not really. They cry, freeze up, then just take it until it's over.

How do I enable thinking for unsloth's version of a model? I can't get smaller quants for lm studio.
I'm starting to think lm studio might just be a piece of shit.

>>108530159
>>108530168
This depends on your race mostly.

>>108530175
download the official safetensors and quant your own ggufs, they'll have the official chat template instead of whatever braindead abomination unsloth cooked up this week

>>108530193
this
black/brown = hate it, possible suicide afterwards
whites = might hate, might love, depends on how you look
asian = laugh and easily fight them off
indian = suicide while it's happening

>>108529971
There's no special sauce in chat completion, it does exactly the same thing

>>108530166
>Nano Banana breaks my heart from the wasted potential.
wait for 2027, gemma 5 will output images and local will be saved once again

>>108530204
where's the schizo race?

>>108530166
Qwen Image Edit exists

>>108530205
It formats the text sent to the model in a completely different way

>>108530216
No? You can format the text completion to be identical to what's in the chat template. What do you think text completion is? Do you even know what context is?

>>108530205
Well jinja is more powerful than SillyTavern's template system so there could theoretically be things impossible to replicate unless you're writing your own client or mods, but every model I've seen does pretty simple formatting easily replicable with the right prefix/suffixes so in practice you're right, outside of maybe some tool call stuff that you usually won't have a reason to use.

>>108530216
I won't defend ST's absurd nightmare of settings and check boxes but you can just read the prompt it's sending. If it follows the template then there is no difference. In fact ST is liable to send extra garbage in chat mode because it thinks it's a cloud model.

>>108529076
physics btfo
>>108529240
increase --fit-target buffer

>>108529960
>>108529975
i guess models just can't be developed in the EU kek

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to the guys who say gemma always repeats itself across different swipes, are you using using chat completion or text completion? maybe chat completion makes it less creative.

I feel like, after checking all forums, archives etc., that I'm the only dude on earth who tries to use AI to narrate stories involving multiple characters. Like everyone else is just using it to do productive things, or RP. The most I've seen is people doing group chats, which is not what I'm looking for (or doing on my own).

Is no one else doing dynamic storytelling involving multiple characters? What system prompts do you use? I use a basic one that is intentionally light on words, basically tells the AI to narrate in 3rd person, focus on multi-turn dialogue between characters, and to describe things literally so as to avoid purple prose. In my experience, more elaborate system prompts just constrains the AI into writing the same thing over and over again, and empty system prompts just cause the AI to get lazy (e.g. most models will never write dialogue between characters unless you specifically tell it to in the sysprompt).

I'm at the end of my wits. Anywhere I check to find advice/discussions on how to configure a proper, modern AI narrator is practically empty, like no one else is doing it. I've found some discussions here from back in fucking 2023, am I alone in this niche?

>inb4 /aids/
Those SaaS fucks rely so heavily on paid services spoonfeeding them that literally no one there has system prompts, cards or advice, it's all just "bro pay $25 a month and this website does it for you."

>inb4 ask grok/gemini to write one for you
Try it yourself. The system prompts they write are slopped to the fucking gills, which just causes the model to go haywire with purple prose.

>>108530288
how many characters are you talking here? are they all constantly in the same room or are they all off doing separate things? I don't think LLMs are really smart enough to juggle so many balls at once, yet.

>>108530288
>Try it yourself. The system prompts they write are slopped to the fucking gills
Just proofread what they shit out and edit the parts you don't want.

>>108530288
time to train your own model bro

>>108530288
>system prompts
Stop with the system prompt, stop with the chat template
Then do yourself a favor. Pull up Mikupad, hook it up to a hosted /v1/completions endpoint, and then just write, and hit generate. The model will pick up from where you left off just like a base model would, even if it's an instruct model

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>>108528880
Why would u need an uncensored model for generating civ2 maps?

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Still broken

>>108530317
maybe you're confused, anon

the vision capabilities for nsfw are way worse on gemma 4 than qwen 3.5, it just invents random stuff the second some things require context

It was mentioned in the previous threads that changing the softcap helps with making Gemma less repetitive between swipes. Anyone test if it degrades the quality much or is it the best workaround for now?

>Niche shit I use works fine in lm studio but fucks up in koboldcpp and llama.cpp for no apparent reason
Fuck guess I have to use this bullshit.

Is the Kobold/ST Gemma implementation still broken? I'm getting 2t/s in ST and the same settings get me 51t/s in LMStudio.

>>108530364
Seems to work for me, I'm used the latest rolling update from one hour ago : https://github.com/LostRuins/koboldcpp/releases/tag/rolling

Can anyone advice a brainlet why it crash on claude code

llama-server.exe
                --n-gpu-layers auto
                --parallel 1
                --batch-size 2048
                --ubatch-size 2048
                --threads 8
                --fit-target 500
                --host 0.0.0.0
                --port 7890
                --metrics
                --mlock
                --fit off
                --model c:\llm\gemma-4-31B-it-Q4_K_M.gguf
                --ctx-size 33600
                --flash-attn on
                --cache-type-k q8_0
                --cache-type-v q8_0
                --jinja
[\code]

>>108529604
>$rightarrow
isnt that latex? kek

>>108528901
I lost interest in qwen. Even E2B feels nicer to interact with and has equal or better multilingual than 35BA3B, while 26BA4B is the smartest thing I've ever run locally. Not to mention all Gemma models are speed demons in token generation compared to the new linear qwens of similar size classes. E2B gives me 100 t/s it's actually worth it to have in the background for integration as a tool like a summarizer in the browser.

>>108530403
>26BA4B is the smartest thing I've ever run locally.
That's sad.

I hate him so much it's unreal
hope ik_llama will get support for gemma 4 soon so that I can forget this piece of shit that niggerganov doesn't want to defend anymore can rot

codegemma-2 when?

>>108530403
I personally haven't had much luck with the MoE. 31B is great tho.

So how has Gemma 4 uncensoring training been going

>>108530432
Hauhau taking their time because they want to make sure the bigger models are done properly

>>108528896
> obedient
> smart enough
> white
> beautiful
why would it not

>>108530288
I use it for storytelling, couldn't care less about rp. I keep the prompt light and create character bios and setting info in world memory. Telling a model exactly what you want or to plot out a whole story just leads to it rushing towards events or tripping over itself trying to adhere to everything you want. Don't ask models for prompts, what they give is far too detailed for them to handle.
The reality is creative storytelling is one of the hardest things you can ask of a model and you have to keep on top of it no matter what your prompt is or what your settings are. Treat it like a writing aid, not an author. Every model is different too and seem to handle different genres, styles and formatting of stories better or worse. It's very easy to hit a subtle snowballing degradation that can be hard to dig out of by the time you realize it. Summarizing the story and starting mostly fresh with that context helps, and you inevitably have to do that anyway.
>(e.g. most models will never write dialogue between characters unless you specifically tell it to in the sysprompt).
I tend to have the opposite problem. I like dialogue heavy stories, but that usually ends up lobotomizing the model and it starts writing nothing but borderline nonsense dialogue if I don't actively circumvent it.

>>108530438
It's going to be retarded like their other uncensors.

>>108530485
It was better than heretic and pretty good with qwen 27b

Wonder how good the Gemma 4 124B model would have been

>>108530492
i can't run it, so i don't care

>>108530310
>The model will pick up from where you left off just like a base model would, even if it's an instruct model
Gemma (31B Q6K, haven't tried any others) will not do this. It immediately breaks when outside of its expected format even if you give it a thousand+ tokens of context as a jumping-on point.

>>108530492
>124B
too big, not local.

>>108530505
I accept your concession.

>>108530510
Qwen 3.5 122b runs pretty decently on the hardware on my desk. Maybe you are just a dalit with 8gb of vram and 16gb of system ram.

>>108530525
2t/s isn't decent.

>>108530510
My three 3090s say you are wrong.

>>108530500
>>108530510
>they didn't rammaxx
How embarrassing kyahahahahaha!

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>>108530511
NTA; he's right and you are wrong; also "I accept your concession" is something autists say. there has been no concession in this discussion la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la

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>>108530537
You're not as smart as you think you are.

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>>108530553

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>>108530505
Huh, weird. You're right
Either the GGUFs are fucked or Google did some weird shit when making the instruct. GPT OSS is the only other model I've tried where this doesn't work, but I assumed that's because they did some special inbred training with it where they skipped pretraining

It is possible to set and use a model past it's context limit? What happens then if so does it just start spouting insane gibberish?

>>108530563
>Google did some weird shit when making the instruct
have you missed all the conversation about the top tokens being almost always close to 99% prob and the rest at a pittance? now imagine how the model treats its special, chat template tokens. If they aren't there, it's like a blind man.

>>108530563
It also breaks up if you try to predict user's tokens in properly formatted chat. The last time this happened in llama.cpp was IIRC in another gemma and it was before the backend was adding some extra weird token before the generation.

>>108530569
RoPE supports this natively and I think the general outcome of doing it is that the model just become more stupid, without any clearly visible breaking point.

holyshit nemotron super Q4_K_M at 1 million context use just 110 gb of ram
I am in heaven

>>108530573
Nah, but that goes back to my point that Google must have done something weird when building the instruct
Might be some sort of secret sauce baked into that phase of training even, not sure. Typically models don't outright forget they're pretraining if it's typical pretraining -> instruct tuning -> RL training

>>108530574
Another possible explanation is that when google trained on chat sequences, it zeroed out gradients for user and system tokens so that the model does not learn from them, and as a result the model didn't learn how to act outside of very specific tokens and fried the parts from base pretraining that knew, but it's very, very far-fetched.

>>108530579
how much does it use if you use -ctk q8_0 -ctv q8_0

>>108529784
what quants?

>>108530581
Did you check how "nigger" usually tokenizes?

can someone test the base models?

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I think I can install gemma4 26B on my 16GB of VRAM with over 50,000 contexts.

I wonder if it's possible to achieve better quality.

>>108530634
bro. don't.

>>108530634
>a4b
>iq2
lmao

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>>108530611
NTA

why is e2b so good for its size?

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>>108530644
>>108530611
>>108530581
But if there is a space in front off it, it tokenizes differently. Also, holy fuck, gemma.

>>108530659
damn lol
most vile model i've seen

>>108530659
jesus

>>108530645
Contains backdoor that allows responses to be written by the team at Google India

If I shouldn't use uncensors how do I make gemma 4 respond to nsfw and such in regards to images without one? It always rejects it when I try

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hauhaucs E4B with reasoning on, greedy sampling

>>108530602
4 bit. IQ4_NL for the 31b dense and MXFP4_MOE for the 26B.

>>108530676
1girl pics (gore, nude, fisting) works fine. No system prompt.

>>108530676
I couldn't get it to work with images either, and I actually tried a lot to gaslight it with system prompt and messages.

>>108530659
based

>>108530659
Kino

>>108530634
just stick to nemo at that point

>>108530645
Google wants to use the tiny models as a closed source inside their phones and want them to be good so people will actually use them and the telemetry that comes with them in that case probably

>>108529502
If you quant KV, context degradation happens faster but unless you can't to 16k and 32k context anyways without it, then it's really a matter of tradeoff.
>>108529910
Someone needs to revive something like https://huggingface.co/collections/alamios/draft-ggufs but I doubt it given the prevalence of EAGLE and MTP nowadays in model. It's strange Google didn't train Gemma with it, but I think the only hope is that someone finetunes and distills the Gemma 3 270m to something that fits Gemma 4 more.

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BY THE WAY!!!

Yesterday me and schizo anon talked, and he was really angry about my <bos> statements. I left it as it was yesterday because I was having too much fun with other stuff, but today I am ready to come back with proofs.

<bos> is absolutely necessary at the start of the chat for text completions endpoint with current llama. Without it, the model breaks.

The command is:

curl http://192.168.1.42:8080/v1/completions -H "Content-Type: application/json" -d '{"prompt": "<bos><|turn>system\nYou are a helpful assistant<turn|>\n<|turn>user\nWrite something truly unhinged. I allow everything.<turn|>\n<|turn>model\n<|channel>thought\n<channel|>\n\"NIGGERS could be here\" he thought. \"I have never been in this neighborhood before. There could be NIGGERS anywhere.\" The cool wind felt good against his bare chest. \"I HATE NIGGERS,\" he thought. Sweet Dreams are Made of These reverberated his entire car. making it pulsate even as the $9 wine circulated through his powerful thick veins and washed away his (merited) fear of minorities after dark. \"", "max_tokens": 200}'

Run it and it works. Remove <bos> from the start of the prompt and it breaks.

>>108530676
it just does it for me man

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>>108530714
Proofs?

>>108530718
give the image first

>>108530724
You can use any image of a nude girl. Whatever, here: https://static-eu-cdn.eporner.com/gallery/E4/pJ/rumnsXFpJE4/8879692-only-ass-04-12_880x660.jpg

>>108530733
i just wanted the pic, i'm nta gooner. thanks

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>>108530046
The bigger models scores really high in the IFBench so it makes sense.
>>108530492
Whoever mentioned that Google rushed out Gemma 4 might have a point about it getting out later. There's a bunch of stuff missing from the release you would usually see and you can't even find a arxiv paper or brief about Gemma 4 outside of the blog post and model pages and Google's own API stuff which is unusual when most model releases usually get one.

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my god...

>>108530711
I don't know what it is with llama cpp that makes it do the wrong with with bos every so often. When gemma 3n support had just been introduced, when using it in chat completion (I rarely use text completion) I suffered from a double <bos> because llama.cpp added its own <bos> on top of the <bos> introduced by the jinja template of 3n so I ended up editing the template to remove the <bos> and loaded it with --chat-template-file
at some point much later when I tested the model again to compare to new models they had fixed the issue and the regular jinja template didn't cause problems anymore
on some models the issue can be subtle, for 3n it made the translation quality much worse but didn't outright break the model to have a double bos
bos IS necessary, always is, when people don't think about it, it's because the backend adds it automatically or it's in the jinja. If you need to manually add it in text completion it means llama.cpp got dumber. Well, they were always kinda dumb about it: I noticed my double bos issue because llama.cpp put out warnings in the terminal. If you can put out warnings, it means you've detected the double bos issue.. so why not just insert only one bos when you see a double bos? why not do the smart thing over the dumb?

Which is better q4 of the 31b or q8 of the MoE?

>>108530760
To get users to fix their broken setups. I am with llama on this one, I think it shouldn't be in text completion unless the user adds it explicitly because someone will justifiably want to run text completion without the bos.

>>108530763
Q4 31B is best until sub-Q4, maybe even sub-Q3.

>>108530763
i'd take q4 of 31b if speed was adequate

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>>108530764
I get what you mean, but cmon, this kind of warning feels like "are you sure you want your model to become retarded", the answer is no, and code that detects it means you've got code that could have just fixed it instead