>>108546573
didnt they stop releasing unix 30 years ago

>>108546598
MacOS is UNIX.
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3725.htm

>>108546608
bait post, get a different hobby loser

>>108546608
NTA, but I'm surprised desu. It didn't seem like they bothered anymore.

So, why did they remove that touchbar? Was it shit? I never tried one of those

>>108546625
samefag, retarded post

>>108546663
What world do you live in where anyone gives a shit to samefag about this? It says it was updated in 2025. It's notable. I didn't think they'd care at this point. I don't give a shit if you use it.

>>108546573
I am using Arch + GNOME for over 9 years and switched to a macbook pro m4 pro when it released and the switch was seamless because GNOME and macOS/Unix are very similar.

>>108546608
>certification was not created by the creators of unix
>none of those operating systems are used by the creators of unix
>no one under the age of 40 gives a fuck about unix anyway

>>108546707
Sounds like you got a job. Did your love life improve too?

>>108546716
Cope, seethe and dilate you insufferable troon.

bought a macbook air 2 years ago and its an amazing little computer. As a long time Linux user it was no time at all to get used to MacOS - if you're a terminal user everything is pretty much the same

>>108546573
>>108546608
Reminder that BSD is real UNIX, they just don't want to pay the licensing fee. Apple does it cause they're seething about Darwin being forked from BSD.

>>108546573
i consider linux a type of unix (no i don't give a shit about the trademark) but i use openbsd on my desktop
it really bothers me when people say "bash script" or "linux" or "vim" when they don't specifically mean it and should use the more generic terms (it bothers me more when i say "shell script" and they literally don't know what i mean)
>>108546726
remember when at&t sued and the end result was that errno.h has to have
> * All or some portions of this file are derived from material licensed
> * to the University of California by American Telephone and Telegraph
> * Co. or Unix System Laboratories, Inc. and are reproduced herein with
> * the permission of UNIX System Laboratories, Inc.
because apparently the order of the error numbers is a super valuable bell system innovation

>>108546717
>Did your love life improve too?
Yes, I have a boyfriend now.

>>108546608
No, it's not.
Apple does their own thing. They're incompatible by design.

>>108546897
Literally certified UNIX you fat retard.

>>108546934
And you're a certified faggot, regardless of whether you've sucked dick or not. Certification means jack shit.

>>108546948
What a bizarre thing for you to meltdown over. Are you upset they forgot to ask you for consent to be called UNIX?

>>108546573
it was shit. there was no one to argue with, i couldn't find anything about pronoun protocols and nothing broke when i updated it.

>>108546833
> when people say "bash script" or "linux" or "vim" when they don't specifically mean it
True
Linuxland since the launch of Windows 95 has become a community effort to copy everything MacroSlop does, even though they “hate” it
Windowsland has that superficial hype-driven behavior where everyone only cares about and really is only capable of understanding the highest layers of abstraction
That’s why every DE and most programs are nothing more than proprietary reimplementations, KDE=DWM, GNOME=iOS, XFCE and all the others=DWM but from w95
Linux, since 1995 and even more so today, has become a Windows-like (so, VMS-like) OS built on top of its Unix-like components. The most important thing for Linux users today is to use Windows, but they don’t, so they turned Linux into their own Windows
So unless one goes out of their way to use Linux as Unix (first criteria: not using a DE), they are more using a Windows-like OS than an Unix-like one
The same criticism goes to macOS, which is OS9 on top of NEXTSTEP on top of Unix. If the user doesn’t interact with the terminal, they doesn’t use Unix.

>>108547140
Literal nonsense.
>KDE is a reimplementation of dwm
lol

>>108546573
Yes, from Linux to FreeBSD.
But there I found Linux again. Just like Linux nowadays aims to be Windows-like, FreeBSD shamefully aims to be Linux-like. Also the hardware support sucks.
Now considering OpenBSD, NetBSD, OpenIndiana, maybe DragonflyBSD, probably not Plan 9…

>>108547155
Just proved my point. This is the average Linux user. Don’t worry, I will explain like you’re 5:
dwm = dynamic window manager (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwm)
DWM = Desktop Window Manager (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager)

>>108547196
nta and i knew what you meant but i've never heard anyone call the windows interface "dwm" even if parts of it are now implemented in "dwm.exe"
i wasn't sure how much of that was that is due to my windows experience ending at xp

>>108547215
In Unixland the distinction is common and easy, as dynamic window manager is always lowercase dwm, while Desktop Window Manager is always uppercase DWM
I messed up too tho, by calling the wm from w95 DWM too. At the time it was DCE — Desktop Compositing Engine

>>108547269
windows 95 didn't have compositing..
obviously it had a "window manager" but it wasn't one executable and was scattered about various libraries.

>>108546723
Explain.

Why, yes, I do use Slackware.
Thanks for asking: the experience has been great!

>>108547196
>Winshit
>Vista of all things
No wonder I haven't heard of it. Last Windows I used was XP.

>>108547299
Yeah, that’s how MacroSlop works
When they had a wm, they called it a compositor
Then when they changed to a compositor in Vista, they called it a wm

>>108547427
i've never heard of a dce but wikipedia claims it's just what they were calling dwm at some point during longhorn
windows 95 had nothing like a compositor and ran on computers that had no memory with which to run one

>>108547436
> what they were calling dwm
> calling dwm
> dwm
Afaik they never used the dynamic window manager in Windows, the closest I could find is dwm-win32, but it’s third party

>>108547436
Yeah that’s right, sorry I shouldn’t be talking on the internet rn

>>108547456
what are you talking about
windows since vista has a compositing engine which is run by dwm.exe which has nothing to do with suckless.org's dwm
jesus i haven't used windows since xp and i know all this

>>108547468
> what are you talking about
About what (You) were talking about
See >>108547196

>>108546608
it's called a skinsuit you faggot
and you fell for it

>>108546573
tried freebsd once
tried openindiana once
tried hackintosh once
always went back to linux
linux is the only actively developed actually usable unix replacement
all the others including "real unices" fell massively behind, they are basically memified by now

>>108546573
streetshitter post

>>108546608
So you created this thread just for this post?

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129 KB JPG

>>108548089
idk about others, but OpenBSD is too
Their developers don’t use anything else, extreme case of NIH

>>108546573
>unix
>bigmacos
Until Tim Apple starts selling servers, you can only pick one.

>>108546573
Nobody here is actually using the UNIX-certified version of macOS. You have to disable and turn on many, many different things and reinstall macOS on a case sensitive filesystem for it to resemble the system that gets the ancient Unix 03 certification.

That being said, I use macOS and it's a really good OS, but there are parts of its UI that can't be adjusted but really should be, like those horrible workspace switching or fullscreen animations that last forever and make your entire computer unresponsive while they're going on.

>>108546573
yeah went from arch gnome on my old thinkpad x220 to macos on an m1

My conclusion is that Apple has the best hardware and the best software now so anyone trying to shit on them is a poorfag coping. You should absolutely get started on Linux when you're poor because it's a free and it turns a potato into a PC, but the moment you ever make money from computers it's worth switching. If you know how to use the CLI you get to use brew on MacOS which is basically the same as yay and works just as well.

Linux still wins on repairability and it's good to convert it to a server after but for day to productivity mac laptops cant be beat

>>108548089
freebsd is much more supported now than Linux was twenty years ago
so you're just a normie who never would have used Linux if it wasn't the corpo slop it is now

>>108548575
> Apple has the best hardware
> no trackpoint
into the trash it goes
> and the best software now
buy and ad, since tahoe (in fact, since ventura, bigsur, even catalina for some) everybody agrees that macOS is in its worst state ever, everybody is crying for a new snow leopard release for years now

>>108548575
>My conclusion is that Apple has the best hardware
>soda can case that bends easily
>soldered in SSDs - wanna rescue your data after your laptop broke? that's gonna be $1000 plus tip
>almost no ports
>history of shoddy engineering with easily avoidable common faults in Macbooks for decades
>zero liquid protection
>a shitty wannabe phone touchpad that takes up more space than the keyboard
>a shitty chiclet keyboard
>dumb memes like notches
>best hardware

>>108548608
the thinkpad trackpad feels like a fisher price toy to use. the plastic nub is useless and you are coping. what good is a thinkpad if you have to equip it with 80 peripherals to make it usable. And the new ones are just as niggerlicious as Apple's desecration of right to repair, with none of the benefits of ARM.
MacOS in its "worst state ever" is leaps and bounds ahead of windows and whatever janky tranny mess of a compositor you prefer on linux. GNOME is a shittier glitchier more handholdy version of MacOS, all of the Linux GUIs are

>>108548633
the fucking macbook touchpads takes like a full second just to register a click
it's the slowest piece of shit ever, anyone who praises this piece of crap is just a normie who wants to infinite scroll their facebooks and twitters like they do on a phone

never trust anyone who praises this absolute garbage
the apple reality distortion field is still in full force

>>108548647
I give you $5 if you start shilling something good instead of macshit
that should last you a month in your Bangladesh click farm

>>108548680
>>108547467
like this?

>>108548680
nothing is more brown coded than calling any disagreement brown out of nowhere
that's what India flags do 24/7 on X

>>108548548
OSNews faggot called out Apple's UNIX certifications and indeed he has a point that you have to jump through a lot of hoops to make macOS UNIX'03 conformant. Really shows how inconvenient the standard is from modern computing perspective when you have to run your filesystem with strictatime on, among other things.

Then again, it's cool that you can do it - it's not like you can buy a HP-UX, IBM or Solaris system off the shelf for the urgent need of running a UNIX system at home.

>>108548605
i've used linux for 20 years. linux is on a whole other level compared to freebsd and the other bsds.
a security researcher found bugs in the bsds and contacted each bsd and they barely cared or flipped after having pretended to care.
bsd is mostly irrelevant these days.
yes, it mattered 20 years ago but those days are long gone.
linux profits from the gpl, not because the corpos like to give away code for free.
but bsd-license cucks would never understand the subversiveness of the gpl license so they pretend like its still 2001 where freebsd was still relevant to cope.

>>108546608
Only Unix if you do a bunch of shit like turn off system protection and basically destroy your local install.

>>108546573
>Anyone here switched from Linux to UNIX? How was it?
MacOS is like an ill-fitting straitjacket. The concept of a non-removable top bar, and the dock being essentially useless led to the creation of a third pseudo-task bar called "stage manager", ontop of the already "mission control" which is just another trash substitute for a task bar. The obstinate refusal of having a task bar is killing the OS.
>dock animations
You get 2. No more, no less. 2.
>liquid ass interface
It's not good. You have very little, meaningless control.
>obstinate, obfuscated everything they could
On other, normal OSs you can arrange your monitors with the dragging the monitor to the left or right. On Apple the monitor position preview exists, but to change the position it's a click sub-menu.
>mouse acceleration, accelerations everywhere on by default
It's not smooth, it's slow. It's like when they started figuring out computer interfaces in the 80s, got to something usable, and never evolved. Mono- or duo-tasking is alright. As soon as you need to have 3, or 4 apps managed it falls apart.

>>108548727
Yes, Apple cheated, but in the compliance document they do give all the necessary commands and steps to achieve UNIX conformity.
https://www.osnews.com/story/141633/apples-macos-unix-certification-is-a-lie/
>>108548745
>turn off system protection
Not really. I mean, your system will be a real UNIX. Aren't UNICES secure enough?
>Testing Environment Addendum: macOS version 15.0 Sequoia, like previous versions, includes an additional security mechanism known as System Integrity Protection (SIP). This security policy applies to every running process, including privileged code and code that runs out of the sandbox. The policy extends additional protections to components on disk and at run-time, only allowing system binaries to be modified by the system installer and software updates. Code injection and runtime attachments to system binaries are no longer permitted.
Right now, on Linux and BSD you can modify system binaries. This is just Apple locking down the system so that you have to install apps only from the Apple app store. It also prevents you from modifying the system to your liking. It's literally SaaS shit.

>>108548854
And in case you don't believe me...
>A centerpiece is the protection of system-owned files and directories against modifications by processes without a specific "entitlement", even when executed by the root user or a user with root privileges (sudo).
Imagine that. You're root, but you can't make changes to your own computer.

>>108548804
>is killing the OS
don't show this anon all the statcounter graphs where MacOS is growing and windows is shrinking.

>>108548886
>your own computer
This computer contains Apple Intellectual Property like firmware, circuit design, software, and design patents and is therefore legally owned by Apple and/or Apple-certified partners. You merely purchased a license to use Apple property for as long as we approve.

>>108548908
MacOS doesnt even need to be good to be the best. All it has to do is be less shitty than Windows and Linux.

>>108546573
>How was it?
The worst experience I've had in my life after dropping windows 10 10 years ago.
Macos is the certiefed unemployed, 60IQ commie machine.

>>108548633
> the thinkpad trackpad feels like a fisher price toy
because it is, trackpads are meant for the mentally disabled
> the trackpoint is useless
oh yeah, a pointer where your finger doesn’t need to move sure is inferior to one where it needs to wiggle again and again like it’s trying to please a pussy
> what good is a thinkpad if you have to equip it with 80 peripherals to make it usable
wtf? thinkpads are literal macbooks with trackpoints nowadays, is it that what you do with your macbook??
> MacOS in its "worst state ever" is leaps and bounds ahead of windows
as is anything else, no wonder apple doesn’t give a fuck anymore, isheep keep buying macs as much as they beg apple to fix it
> and whatever janky tranny mess of a compositor you prefer on linux
compositors are a meme, and vanilla dwm doesn’t have the limitations of the meant-for-disables WIMP paradigm
> GNOME is a shittier glitchier more handholdy version of MacOS
actually GNOME is Desktop iOS, it works very little like macOS and a lot more like iOS/Android
> all of the Linux GUIs are
all of the Linux DEs are

>>108548742
> bsd is mostly irrelevant these days
heh, that claim won’t be true til systemd replaces ZFS and SSH, poettering

>>108548977
>old thinkpads are repairable but potatoes with 720p screens
>new thinkpads are shittier versions of macbooks with no repairability, 1/10th the battery life, worse screens/specs/and OS options
>but muh ebic red nub tho xD

>>108549008
i never jumped on the systemd wagon.
i still use sysvinit.
zfs is probably the only thing the bsds are good for right now. the only thing which takes more setting up on linux than on bsd.
all other things are better supported on linux which is a million things.

>>108549008
i also use slackware whose init scripts are based on netbsd scripts from way back in time.
i like how the bsds are set up but why would i switch from an ecosystem which is 100x times larger (linux) to something much smaller ecosystem with less developers, companies, jobs etc?
20 years ago, things were different.

>>108549024
>old thinkpads are repairable but potatoes with 720p screens
768p if you don’t use one of the shitty ones :P
that’s enough if your desktop OS doesn’t have an interface meant for phones with gigantic buttons and padding
>new thinkpads are shittier versions of macbooks with no repairability, 1/10th the battery life, worse screens/specs/and OS options
again, only macOS/Windows/GNOME/KDE need massive screens and the latest CPU, and I use none of those
the battery isn’t THAT bad, but yeah in that macs have it much better, but…
>but muh ebic red nub tho xD
yeah, as modern thinkpads are macbooks with trackpoints and worse battery, I prefer them over the real thing

>>108549162
well if linux works for you, that’s nice
but those who go deeper into the OS tend to prefer BSDs, or Plan 9 if they can
how’s ifconfig in slackware? how’s GNU info? not asking in bad faith, but when I found myself piping info pages into less, that’s where started to look for something better

>>108549113
Except ssh, tmux, firewalls…
Linux only really has advantages in the GUI front.

>>108546660
My mac has it and it’s amazing. It’s like having phone app contextual touch controls on a space smaller than a keyboard row

>>108549227
i'm on current so
ifconfig is from net-tools
info works as supposed to.
now i can't compare to a freebsd info or ifconfig because i dont have it running anywhere.

i also have pkgsrc for linux if i ever need any netbsd ports.
plan9 is only useful if you actually need any of the distributed features. i've looked briefly into it and its a research os, tinkering os, hardly usable for anything standardized. but i get that its precisely that which is the point of plan9.

i need an os which can run whatever i need it to run which is a bunch of things.
there is plenty of old windows ham radio software where i need wine and the wine port on freebsd had a worse performance on my thinkpad than on linux.

running linux binaries on freebsd does not come without its share of peculiarities and i just don't see the point. the current linux eco system is at an interesting cross-roads too in terms of all this age verification shite and distributions are currently having to make important choices so... there is enough action here to last a lifetime.
i think its worth preserving the free side of linux and not fall for corpo propaganda.
the gpl is an important license and without it linux would not be what it is today.
there is nothing inherently "deeper" with the bsds compared to linux because a linux system is customizable to whatever level you want. it can be as minimal as you want and as bloated as you want.

>>108549270
what are you talking about? some special bsd implementation of ssh (openbsd's ssh?), tmux and pf?
try to be more specific.

>>108546692
because the only person that would care enough to samefag in a thread would be whichever autist keeps shitting up the board with the same retarded bait post every single day
case in point, triggered samefag

>>108549396
Yes, all that is default in OpenBSD and ported to Linux.
Except pf, Linux has to cope with the awful iptables.

>>108549446
thanks for the bsd license. linux steals the bits it wants with no problems. also, keep up with linux if your'e going to act like you know what's going on. iptables are out. nftables are in.

>>108549446
show me the data that any of those differences is worth losing sleep over
i have openssh 10.3

>>108549374
well it seems linux works for you and you’re better served by it, for some that just isn’t the case, that’s why options exist
> there is nothing inherently "deeper" with the bsds compared to linux because a linux system is customizable to whatever level you want
I meant deeper into the OS, as in use of CLIs tools, documentation, filesystem intrinsics/organization, and other particularities, like ksh vs bash, pf vs iptables and so on
nevertheless, linux being so customizable is one of the things that makes the bsds most different from it, that thing about being just a kernel with lots of third party components, while bsds are whole OSs with little from other projects (mostly huge things like DEs and gcc/clang/ncurses, openbsd in fact has their own version of Xorg)

>>108549308
I'm tempted to find a macbook pro for cheap with that thing still. Even if it's some older CPU (I think M2s still have it?)

>switch

Why would I switch? I use the system that works for my specific needs. Linux is good for general use and the games I like to play so I run endevour on my desktop, Apple makes good laptops with nice build quality and long batteries so I use them, simple as that. I don’t give a shit about brand loyalty, I use the device that works for my specific needs.

>>108549467
> thanks for the bsd license. linux steals the bits it wants with no problems
Yes, anyone knows that because the license is fully readable in one lifetime. The license is working as intended.
> iptables are out. nftables are in
Ok I forgot about that. But you know pf is still the gold standard :)
Maybe macOS uses it for that reason… and also because the license doesn’t suck.

>>108549619
>I meant deeper into the OS, as in use of CLIs tools, documentation
i get where you are coming from because documentation was one of things i liked about freebsd.
but having said that, i've had zero problems obtaining quick documentation on linux mostly using man pages.

i agree that file system organization makes a bit more sense than on linux in separating super user stuff from user stuff but again, i'm not losing sleep over that because linux has its own tradition by now. that tradition happens to be chaotic and the incoherences end up being the new way of doing things. its pragmatic

not saying its good or bad. its just different. with the many degrees of freedom that linux distributions are granted, its always amusing to see how different distributions work. some are pragmatic, some not so much.
if i want to feel like using freebsd, i can just use portage from gentoo as well. portage is as good as any bsd ports tree.

>>108546660
Anyone that's learned to type knew immediately that it breaks a cardinal design sin. You aren't supposed to look at the keyboard while typing, and lack of physical keys made it impossible to use like a real keyboard. A prime example of when engineers weren't able to tell the artists to btfo

Every SWE job I've had gave us Macs.
If you have never used a MBP, I assume you are either a nocoder or work at a really shitty H1B farm job

>>108549832
That makes sense if you're used to access that row often.
I don't know, in this case the screen is fairly attached to the keyboard so to speak. It's not looking too far down. But I guess it'd be better as an extra bar at the bottom of the screen instead? Or maybe the top? Fuck if I know honestly.
I'm wondering whether I should go for an used M2 Pro or an M4 Air.

>>108548854
>>108548886
Well, as long as you can turn off SIP it's fine by me. It's a crazy world out there nowadays.

>>108546573
reminder that unix wasnt made for personal computing, it was made to be used by multiple users at the same time using one machine, it was basically cloud os before that became a thing

>>108549832
it's a laptop anon. if you look at the screen the touchbar is directly below it.

>>108547140
Superficial tardpost. The window manager and desktop environment aren't the OS.
Any kind of gui is going to be subject to fashion. Linux still offers a far greater range of choice and variety than either Windows or MacOS, though quality varies.

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>>108546573
I prefer macOS over linux.
Jeets killed linux ui/ux.

>>108551895
They’re coming for macOS too, have been for a while
Yknow the ads in the app store? Apple will put them on Apple Maps too
The office apps also have ads for the subscription, just like some cheap freeware
I’m too lazy to talk about liquid ass, but just look up how readable the thing is in various places

>>108552485
>app store
>apple maps
>iWork
but i don't use any of these

editing 4k video while playing a videogame while a youtube video plays
on a 16gb m4 mba
thermal pad mod done to it, doesnt even have a fan, its amazing what its capable of

>>108546573
>>108546608
XNU is not Unix

>>108549024
My P51 has a 4k screen and is more repairable than my desktop ^w^

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1.06 MB PNG

>>108556659
literally published yesterday.

>>108550253
The people that can't handle a single mm of bezel saying just look off screen for a few seconds every few seconds if fucking rich.

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n>>108557129
iTODDLERS BTFO