You guys are probably going to have to put your webshit skills to a different use. Wix and shopify were bad enough, but ai seems custom built to fart out jeetscript.

>>108564518
>You guys are probably going to have to put your webshit skills to a different use.
AI cannot produce copyrighted work like I can :)

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:: Fuze Mediaboard ::
dev:: basedchan
tools:: C++, Boost.Beast
link:: https://fuze.page/software/mediaboard
repo:: https://github.com/Liteb0t/Mediaboard
progress:: 0.0.6: Mainly bug fixes. Also using CMake as the build system now.

bcrypt or argon2 for password hashing? I heard bcrypt outperforms the latter unless it's a super long algorithm (> 1 second).

>>108568380
argon2 is better in literally every metric

>>108568464
source?

>>108568380
just don't store passwords

>>108564518
I don't do web dev professionally so idgaf.

>>108568380
bcrypt is probably fine if your password isn't longer than 72 bytes. argon2 is more resistant to brooot. That's about it. Reminder that argon2 though uses more memory.

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ron paul anons
i have been laid off recently and joined another project, where i'm tasked with creating a wordpress theme that will be used to create specific niche websites, from scratch. in the past i used ACF and made things dynamic/modular by just using flex fields. it's pretty straightforward and easy.
however, i was thinking about using gutenberg blocks. i never used them but i roughly understand how they're made and such. i understand their appeal, but i also heard some concerning stories about how even the wordpress ceo or whatever couldn't wrangle them in some live event or something.
should i make the switch or is it fools effort? cute maid unrelated

>>108564518
Of course anon. Build us a Twitter clone with AI. You have 10 minutes. Should take less than half of that if your attitude about AI is correct.

So what's the /wdg/ take on agentic workflows?

From my perspective for actual development they might or might not make sense however integrating an agentic workflow into a system is a completely different story.

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>>108566004
Funny change

>>108572026
You got me wrong bro. I'm not attacking you.
I hate "ai". However, the fucking chatbots have a virtually endless dataset on your specific interest, so it's going to be impacted first and hardest.

Keep doing what you love, but diversify into parts unknown, so you're not crushed by fagman's fetch() function shitter.

>>108572199
Sorry. I didn't actually sage there. Left on from another thread.

if u use php and pg u get double elephant, food for thought

my opinion is that if you use ai you better know wtf is going on because else that assertive pos will tell you that everything is fine when it really isn't

>>108572225
one of them is a male elephant the other is a female elephant

>>108572199
Maybe the answer is to be realistic about AI. Use it where it helps (and yes it can help) but don't try to get it to write everything, because it's not very good at that. Every small piece of AI-generated code needs to be checked for potential bugs. Large pieces of course also need to be checked, which takes even more time than for small pieces.

>>108572289
might as well start an elephant farm then

>>108572363
I only use AI as a supplicant to StackOverflow, that is it helps main in planning architectural decisions. I think it's important I write every line of code myself or use code from existing libraries. If you're not writing project specification in code it is ambiguous by definition.

in a paralel world,jQuery implemwnts full Java types, solid number manipulation. Whay else could jQuery bring to the table that would be solid with a minimal js library?

>>108573913
It also soves number/decimal limit issue by using strings and whatever else, I remember I myself did this in a wdg ghread not too long ago and some anon improved it even further

Why people invented Django REST framework? Was Django not abstract enough?

>get assigned to legacy 2020 project that needs a new functionality
>nodejs, typescript, typeorm, react, eslint, webpack = seems fine
>npm install
>200+ vulnerabilities
>there will be no requirements for a while so I can focus on fixing this
>update dependencies, migrate to react compiler, dockerize everything, etc
>1000+ eslint errors, tons of ts errors
>dive into code
>typescript was configured in basically the most loose way, all noImplicit* are set to fase, strictNullChecks: false
>eslint had just few rules, nothing related to react
>tons of types that make no sense, zero fucks given about undefined or nulls, all callbacks typed as `Function`, `any` and `{}` everywhere
>hooks have random dependencies, nearly all of them are missing something
>rules of hooks? never heard of them
>a lot of callbacks not memoized, often used as deps to other callbacks
>values used before declaration everywhere
>anonymous react components everywhere, `props` always taken as a object with no destructuring, React.FC<any> everywhere for some reason
>only a couple of tests, all on the level of assert(true)
>still proudly displays report from some meme tool claiming 95%+ type coverage
Holy shit people writing this probably no longer work here but if they did I would want them all fired.

>>108574935
>several vulnerabilities
>let's focus on code quality instead

>>108575107
These are npm audit warnings. In order to fix many of them I had to update libraries, many of which have no fixes for older versions so breaking change updates were necessary. I do not want to spent weeks trying to find best lowest fixed versions that will satisfy all the relationships between dependencies so I just updated them to the newest versions. That was all that was needed to fix these warnings, it was the easy part. But since libraries like eslint, react and somewhat TS too went over overhauls over years and became better at detecting problems with code, it made all of the shittiest code surface.

>>108564403
Postgres sucks.

>>108570297
This. That limit in bcrypt makes it unusable.

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I decided that I wanted a blog, so I'm making a blog engine. It outputs HTML 3.2, and it's running on a CGI web framework that I also wrote / vibe coded.

>>108570297
>Reminder that argon2 though uses more memory
Yeah it is for this reason I'm thinking about using CATENA which made it into the top 5 of the 2015 password hashing competition. I want to offload some of the password hashing to the client in the form of a WebAssembly module which returns a hash that is then sent to the server. Trading less memory for more CPU makes sense for the clientside hashing.

>>108575553
>It outputs HTML 3.2
Why on Earth did you choose that

>>108576719
Probably because it doesn't need anything else. Actually, HTML 3.2 is still over-doing it.

>>108576759
Personally I would never go back and learn the standards of HTML 3 when any company who might hire me will obviously want me to know HTML 5

>>108576759
vibe coder IQ on display

>>108575294
Postgres does suck, but it sucks less. It's literally peak suckless tier software, like Linux.

>>108576719
Similar to the reason it's running on CGI-- it's half practical reasons, half art, half trolling. I genuinely like it though. Of course everyone likes the some of their own, but it loads very fast, looks nice, no shit moving around, and filters people who don't share my taste.

>>108575553
I like the name. Too bad it's vibecode slop.

>>108577660
Thanks. I get to deal with artisanal hand-crafted human slop all week at work. When the AI asks a stupid question, I can reply with "Are you fucking stupid?", and I can call its code a steaming pile of shit without worrying about the AI quitting or the HR guy paying me a visit.

Anyway, I'm having fun with it. It's partly a dogfooding exercise for the backend framework stuff that I'm doing. I think CGI is due for a comeback. I'm calling it "serverless on bare metal" :)

>Try to use semantic elements
>Have no idea where they should actually go
>Go back to ids
>An hour wasted on pointless deliberation
>Repeat for every project

why did /wdg/ die? i checked a few times recently but there was never a thread.

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>haven't coded in months
>the idea that starting a project would be fun has taken over me even if I know I'll hate every second of it.

>>108580181
just do it until it isn't fun, call it prototyping

how do people use git with webpages/webapps if there's no migration system like in laravel or such? like if i have wordpress, i could git the template folder, plugins folder or even the whole root directory, but there's no database there, and wordpress doesn't have anything resembling migrations. so how do people track changes?

>>108581189
You can store the program version in the database and use either a switch-case block or goto statements in the server that performs any necessary migrations on startup.

>>108581445
what do you mean? there are no migrations, as i said. if i have a simple webpage that's based off wordpress, joomla, prestashop or whatever, i don't have any migrations at all. that's why i'm asking, how do people coordinate between multiple developers in environments like these.
For example, if i have a Joomla webpage, and 5 devs are working on it, one dev creates some functionality or whatever, which requires some plugin to be disabled, so he disables it on his local machine. But another dev has it enabled.

>>108581539
You would write the SQL changes in a way that tracks the changes through each version, and a switch-case taking the version string is perfect for that. As for plugins I don't know, but if enabling/disabling them can be done from within the code you could write it together with the SQL migrations.

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All these years, only to realize that HTML, JS, and PHP are all you need

>>108582551
Remove PHP and just use HTML and JS (Node on the server). Although you should add CSS too. Inline styles are cancer.

>>108582619
Node is a piece of shite, I'd rather use PHP or Python on the backend.

>>108583367
I like Node. It works well. I like JS/TS, and it's quick and easy to get set up with a Node/Express project, whereas when I've tried Laravel, it feels very heavy.

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Vibe coders BTFO

My hope is that over the next couple years we'll see a few tech companies have massive problems because they generated absolute slop code with "AI"

>>108583406
I like Javascript and Node itself is fine but the npm ecosystem is awful. Java has a very good ecosystem but unfortunately JS does not. I never tried Lavarel but I hate PHP the language.

>>108584377
>the npm ecosystem is awful
I don't think so. You've got Express, you've got Hono, you've got Fastify. Then for ORMs you've got Prisma, Sequelize, Mongoose, as well as Drizzle and TypeORM (I haven't tried them but I've heard good things)

Maybe you're thinking "there are so many trash packages in npm though, including malware". Yes that's true, but you can just avoid using them. Only use trustworthy dependencies and you should be fine.

Closures are neat

>>108585293
Maybe backend JS dependencies are better than frontend then. I was against JS frameworks before but even moreso now after suffering corporate webdev hell. Spring boot/hibernate isn't bad though, if a bit verbose. Java also has JDBC which I'm really missing in my C++ project.

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Truth nuke

>>108585535
I tried Java a bit. Didn't love it that much. I would happily write it if an employer pays me to though.

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>>108580304
I don't want to undertake the unfun stage of development

>>108579935
webdev is sort of dead. At my job all the webdevs were fired now it's just an intern with claude.

>>108585804
maybe the AI needs to write more readable code

So I've recently published my js framework that doesn't need a build step, doesn't use vdom or hydration and works with SSR.

I hate React, so that's part of why it exists:

https://qitejs.qount25.dev/Explained-by-ducks.html

Thoughts?

>>108587870
>the unfun stage of development
Sounds like you groan the moment text editor opens

>>108588081
Not reading cringe duck page, read Introduction instead
Add some kind of explanation for fields/events/flags structure, I have no idea why your fields are structured the way they are, it's just confusing. Read component basics page, still have no idea.
Instead of necessary super(tree_node) you could use a template method instead, init() or something
Missing <title>

>>108588238
yeah, I'm planning on reworking the intro page. The code example there is unnecessarily complex. I thought the duck page really explained everything better. When I posted to HN lots of people got confused with the intro, thought Qite is some kind of jQuery. I don't know, it's all pretty clear in my head, but it's hard to write an intro page that appeals to others.

>>108588131
I groan at having to debug and having to read docs. i wish my cote worked the first time i write it.

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>>108588270
A classic +1 counter example would be a good start
Place it early on the page, preferably with code files separated with tabs, maybe right after the first section
>>108588293
I love reading docs :) When I'm bored at work I re-read PHP docs :DDD

>>108582551
Php is dogpoo tho, use Go or Rust

Do anons in this thread know what happened to the /AAD/ thread? I can’t see one from this year.

>>108588081
>classes
>dom separate from js
Into the trash it goes

>>108588776
I don't understand people who judge things like that. Hey anon, you have classes in your code, you must be some literal retard. Oh yeah.

>>108564403
Thoughts on htmx?
I dream of a web with no javascript

>>108589546
But htmx is JavaScript. So, why do you need htmx if you can just write a few lines of js yourself?

>>108589614
Grok is this true?
DISSAPOINTED!

Gemma 4 is cheaper than any human alive. Cheaper then jeetest of jeets and niggest of nigs. In fact its cheaper than trans atlantic slavery at its peak. It's truly uneviquovaly so fucking over. Humanity is finished. We invented digital labor animals that can think. They can interact with machines and other digital animals of labor. The world will never fucking be the same again.

>>108589546
>I dream of a web with no javascript
Why? It's a decent language and easy to use.

>>108588081
btw, whomever tried my framework and emailed me, cool, thanks for doing that. Didn't think anyone would even care.

>doing magento commerce
>need to make a quick order with a test product
>create product
>out of stock

Ok, this store is 10 years of 3 AM spaghetti code, it just can't handle normal products anymore.

>spin up vanilla magento store
>create product
>set visibility, assign to website
>set qty
>set stock status to "in stock"
>disable stock management
>assign inventory source
>allow backorders
>globally disable inventory management
>reindex
>clear cache
>hard-delete cache directory
>reindex again
>enable inventory and catalog data syncing
>try with a virtual product instead
>install sample data set
>spend another 30 min following LLM hallucinations
>still out of stock

Fucking piece of shit. All I want to do is test an email but first I need to get a fucking phd in this pile of garbage's harebrained inventory management.

>Look at GORM, the Go ORM, on GitHub
>The lead dev, and many other devs, are Chinese
I wonder if the Chinese Communist Party has hidden some spyware in this thing

Is there any chance for me to ever bypass datadome for my webscraping needs?

I've tried playwright alongside playwright_stealth, but I'm still detected just loading the website, before even clicking a single button.

I also tried changing my window size, I tried adding user agents...

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>can't find job
>decide a start up app is my best chance
>can't come up with an idea for an app

>>108583416
same anon... same.

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>>108594533
>create app
>userbase booming
>move to monetize
>users leave before monetization occurs

>>108594533
I keep having ideas of cool things I want to make but they're probably too ambitious for one person. I had a project I kept coming back to but I eventually realised it would take a ton of work just for an MVP so then I moved on to more modest and realistic project ideas.

>>108596540
At least you have ideas.

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don't die please.

>>108597668
If web dev interests you then surely you can think of an idea for a website or web app you'd like to make
>>108599313
Thank you for bumping the thread

>>108600146
>If web dev interests you then surely you can think of an idea for a website or web app you'd like to make
I got into webdev because I wanted to make games and javascript seems like the right balance between power and ease of use plus it has uses outside of making games. Maybe I should make a small game for android instead of a normie app.

/wdg/

I'm humbly asking, what else do you do in order to prevent a guy that's scraping your API endpoint, when he switches IP and fingerprint at every scrape?

>>108602398
proof-of-work?

>>108583406
Nuxt or Next are also neat if you're already using Vue or React. Kind of bloated, but very convenient.

Need to motivate myself to do some work, fuck

>>108603208
I've never tried Vue. Is it better than React?

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Has any of you used Swift for a project?

>>108605909
it's the same shit, requiring a build step is retarded

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>>108564403
I want to kill myself. I can't tolerate WP and PHP anymore.

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>>108607310
This is how you decode JSON in PHP:

$data = json_decode($json, true);

if (json_last_error() !== JSON_ERROR_NONE) {
    echo 'JSON decode error: ' . json_last_error_msg();
    $data = []; // fallback
}

You need to use another function to get the error.

>>108607126
I briefly looked at it a while ago but that's all. Are you thinking of using this?
>A server-side Swift HTTP web framework.
https://github.com/vapor/vapor

>>108607191
>requiring a build step is retarded
Why? Even if you write JS, without TS or JSX or whatever, you still want your JS to be minified for production.

>>108605909
It's slightly better but in the long run you should use React since it's more popular

>added a custom term to a post type in WP
>i can add the terms
>they don't show up when editing a post that they're assigned to, the box is empty
>when i switch them to hierarchical => true, they do show up and can assign them
i'm 2 hours in and have no idea why it's doing that

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>>108607394

$data = json_decode($json, true, JSON_THROW_ON_ERROR);

>>108608118
forgot flags:

why no ones discuss phoenix ? i'm pretty interested in it as with vibecoding it has been working super super well with good peformance and i wonder why people don't use it more ?

>>108608118
Shut the fuck off.

$mapping = ['a' => 1, 'b' => 2];

in_array('a', $mapping);  // false (looks for value 'a')
in_array(1, $mapping);    // true  (finds value 1)

// What you would reasonably expect:
in_array('a', $mapping);  // should be true (key exists)

>>108608118
Shut the fuck off.

$mapping = ['a' => 1, 'b' => 2];

in_array('a', $mapping);  // false (looks for value 'a')
in_array(1, $mapping);    // true  (finds value 1)

// What you would reasonably expect:
in_array('a', $mapping);  // should be true (key exists)

>>108608582
>function does exactly what it says
Anon please...
If you're gonna shit on PHP at least find a better thing to shit on. Like __get (property access overload) doesn't trigger within the same stack trace even if you access a different field.

>>108605909
Yes

>>108605909
They're all the same shit. Raw json is enough.

>>108605909
It's yet another angular clone made for people who are too stupid to understand how to properly use React with hooks. It's a meme. Not as much as HTMX but still a meme.
Just use newest react with react compiler, memorize and understand all the rules and how to transpile/bundle all your sources, zero runtime CSS in JS, etc. Nothing comes even close to the flexibility, expressiveness and wide range of libraries than react.

>>108607191
>t. never worked in a team/on actually complex website

>>108564403
I'm building a small CRUD API on Python/FastAPI, but it might need to get a bit more complex later on. what's the recommended frontend framework I should be using for this? I want nothing fancy, something kinda like what you can get with the django-admin templates/frontend, that level of basic. Any ideas?
I'm not a frontend guy btw, just a backend dude who kinda got stuck with a fullstack role.

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>mfw react is nearly 13 years old

>>108611212
why is that picture so accurate lmao

Is Angular still common for new projects or have devs moved more towards React?

Good night /wdg/

>>108613236


Good night :)

>>108594533
The thing that dismotivates me whenever I think about creating a website is having to do the marketing.

>>108605909
Vue with script setup is god tier, beats even Svelte

>>108564518
AI can't do pixel perfect CSS

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dev:: void
tools:: nestjs, nextjs, postgresql, react native expo
link:: https://umigalaxy.com/
repo::
progress:: After releasing the 1.0 version of the website, I started working on a react native version for android/ios. My first attempt ended up horribly because I made the mistake of trying to set it up on WSL, but this time I set it up on windows and I managed to get it up and running. I think I'm gonna start with the authentication logic.

what would you get fixed IF you could only fix one thing
>remove $ syntax from php
OR
>make php have good performance

>>108614016
Nice. I just left a comment on your site.

>>108614609
I would replace . (string concatenation) with +

>>108614998
sane 2bh

>>108614016
AI slop

I have 180gb left on my laptop. Is it enough for dev work for the next 3-5 years? C: windows has 180 gb left. D: has 191 gb left.

>>108615490
Nigga I work on a laptop with 60 GB.
Do you save your code as video files or somethin?

>>108615540
this neega doesn't work with node that's for sure

>>108614609
Performance, obviously.
PHP itself has good performance, but PHP == Laravel in current year, and Laravel has absolute dogshit performance, I don't even mean just not too good, it's unironically dogshit.

>>108616818
we need a new php, like... do the exact same but well done, shit's fire

what's your take on:
>symfony
>vanilla php + symfony following minimal hex architecture?

>>108615490
>tfw work laptop goes below 5GB of free space

>>108616836
I don't know Symfony too much, the full framework looks heavy on yaml config files and annotations, which doesn't fill me with confidence. Is it worth learning? There isn't a lot of demand for it, Laravel is a lot more popular. I use some Symfony libraries at work though, they are good.

>>108616930
all I "know" is from having heard around people using it, laravel is written on symf, and symf is a more powerful less handholdy laravel, but the cherry on top apparently is using just fractions of the framework as services and rolling the rest in vanilla

>>108615540
Last month i reinstalled windows on my 456/512 drive and i got like 200 + 191 amount of space but 30 days later it's already on 183 + 191 thanks to forced win 11 25h2 update. It literally has nothing there. No games. No videos. Just a couple fanarts and my legal files like CV and what not. Not even projects. Is that so bad?

>60 gb laptop
What size is the ssd? Just 128gb?

>>108616855
How much used space?

>>108564403
when did Web Shitters get their own thread?

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>>108617657
>t.

>>108617668
Done him up like a kipper

>>108614609
PHP can't be fixed, it should be replaced entirely. But if there is something to fix as a top 1 priority it's the lack of modules.

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>>108617885
>it should be replaced entirely
It already has been

>>108617903
it's relative, some areas are php heavy, so it hasn't replaced it there, you could argue that Go has replaced node and be "right", it's all relative
writing php, despite the awkward syntax is still amazing
>>108617885
agree with it should be replaced... hopefully by php2, a new rewrite, but it already has modules, look at packagist iirc

>>108617937
>but it already has modules, look at packagist iirc
No, I mean real modules instead of dumb file inclusion.

>>108617937
>>108618129
This is what I mean chuds, PHP can't run code in isolation, Wordpress is dog poo though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piah4fV_o2Q

Writing SQL UP and DOWN migration scripts at work, for a single client (we have like 10 of them). Millions must query.

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>>108618623
I don't like the chud memes, but alas

>>108616930
>heavy on yaml config files
There's an option to use .php configs
https://symfony.com/doc/current/configuration.html#configuration-formats

>>108616930
And what's wrong with annotations?

>>108566004
Why do you embed the javascript inside a tag in your HTML? And please don't link the 14kB meme article. Otherwise neat project!

so anon, when are you starting php rewrite? are we making php great again or nah?

>>108620878
>Why do you embed the javascript inside a tag in your HTML
I heard it loaded faster.

>>108621488
it should, probs milliseconds, aka wouldn't even notice. benchmark it

>>108615490
>>108617630
Im serious. I only have 370gb left out of a 475 SSD

>>108620339
What a bunch of retards

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>>108620878
Is this you?

>>108622624
>administrator
>nigger
kind of based ngl, also demo-ready for megacorps and such

>>108622624
also, drop your nametag... not here we're a very small general, don't faggotize it please

I'm a bit stressed about quantum day. we're 2 and a half years away from being cooked.

>>108624033
I'm sure it'll be fine
>cooked
As an ageing millennial, I struggle with these newfangled words

>>108624719
fucked it means "we're fucked"
t. zoomified millenial

I am not good at the Google seo game. worse is that AI killed what little gains I made. my website's traffic is way down now.

>just promote on social media bro
I hate social media and am already super busy as is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8rrhZTPEAQ

Very good video

>>108574935
>needs new functionality
>starts upgrading process
That's on you anon, if it works, don't change it.

>>108607126

no looked at it many years ago but i am old no projects

>>108626418
nta, based on insight from senior dudes I've heard, he has done the right thing, very old dependencies are likely to cause trouble, but if he wasn't careful picking the new ones, he might introduce new ones, like rouge packages and so on

>>108627022
upgrading dependencies is a very delicate process, that sometimes require a full code refactory and businesses expect a date on when things will be functional. It's called debt for a reason, and this guy decided to break the code before being assigned his first task - that's retard behavior

reminds me of when I pushed an update to prod and it didn't work even though it worked on dev. The site was working fine so I rolled it back to figure out the issue. Turns out the update was reliant on a newer version of node. It took a couple of days to get the servers up to date.

Damn figma stock crashed because claude released a figma competetior
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_LBECIQQqs
How much of this is karma for figma jewery with their mcp server rate limits?

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>>108589546
Used it and loved every part of it.
Feels like the good parts of PHP, but in your language of choice.

>>108627022
Doing upgroods on the first day of new project is fucking wild dude you have no idea what you'll break

>>108602398
CORS? CSRF? Rate limiting using cloudflare? Transform your application into SSR? HTMX?
There are many options, each with their pros and cons, ask ChatGPT and brainstorm which one adapts to what you're doing.
I managed to scrape ServiceNow without access to their REST API using my cookies and updating them once a week, people tend to get creative if they want.

>>108608147
Phoenix is Rails with a different programming language and focused on parallelism.
It's great in theory, but people don't want to learn non-mainstream languages (JS and Python are kings here) so creating a project using it means little chance of finding someone to maintain it.
For personal projects go crazy, who's stopping you from writing HTML in assembly?

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>>108611797
Angular for enterprise
React for mid-size companies
Vue for startups

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>>108625100
I did assume that from the way it's used but still. I feel like an old bastard seeing new lingo used unironically.

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>>108602398
No one has that many IP addresses.
Also pic related.

>>108627937
Idiot.
>Vue for enterprise
>Vue for mid-size companies
>Vue for startups

>>108627937
>>108629477
No one uses vue
Angular is either legacy or boomer team lead insisting on it because he doesn't know anything else
React is the most popular framework right now

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It just works.

>>108629598
If you are making a canvas game, or compiling wasm stuff or just making a simple webpage with close to 0 dynamic content it completely makes sense to not use any framework whatsoever. Vanilla js is good.
But if you are considering vue or angular or reinventing the wheel, you will probably be better of with React.

>>108602398
I don't block scrapers, I encourage them if they want to do it since icba to create an API. I just put rate limiting on.

>>108629598
I use one of those ancient ass templating libraries. I still don't know how to use react and I may never learn it.

for me it's svelte

>>108630002
one of the best devs I've ever seen got hired for a svelte (or was sveltekit? idr) role, looks good

>>108629644
>If you are making a canvas game, or compiling wasm stuff or just making a simple webpage with close to 0 dynamic content it completely makes sense to not use any framework whatsoever. Vanilla js is good.
Sure. For a lot of modern cases though I think React makes sense. Or if you really want something a bit more lightweight then there's Preact.

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sirs 1 question

i took the web dev route 5 years ago when starting my carrer and ive been working with big corps with c#/java backend focused (kubernetes, kafka, db, schedulers) most of time. I do know the basics of angular/react.

Is there a market for freelancing or working with small companies with these skills? Im open to learn but even if i really get good at frontend, can i offer to people to build their shitty websites in spring/angular or spring mvc and host on some vps instead of wordpress? I believe it probably wont be cost feasible.

I dont know, just starting now to look for ideas to work by myself. I dont see myself playing corporate games for life.

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>>108629552
Idiot westoid, in China all websites use Vue.

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Zuck won, it's over, the web has fallen

>banging head against issue all day
>trying anything to get it to work
>finally stumble onto a solution at the last minute
my head hurts and i think i got a new grey hair

How did you get your first tech job? Cant i just copy paste 1-2 projects from youtube then after that done I'll just grind leetcode?

>>108637724
worked very hard, grinded insanely hard for like 2 months, in a formation project, then got super lucky in the selection process, the ones in the formation project none of them reached my level not even close, despite that I still had to get lucky to go through the hiring process, and it wasn't as hard as it is today, this was 3 years ago

and all of this was after 4 years "trade" web dev formation, it was 2 years, but it took me 4, because I failed 2 of the hardest subjects, which came in handy later, when repeating them I got good scores

>>108637724
Learn the bare minimum and find an entry job via contacts (preferably a family friend).
Most jobs require some experience, and are not willing to risk it.

>>108637724
here's an idea for cool side project that'll show proactivity
>find community you know with their own website/forum
>it is shit
>make it legit better
AND
capitalize on these:
>google lighthouse high scores
>mobile first
>maybe SEO/accessibility
these will impress some tech recruiters on the CEO side
good luck

>>108637724
>How did you get your first tech job?
>be me, CS student
>visit IT club at university
>a friend there asks:
>-hey anon, do you have any plans for summer
>-no
>-wanna apply to our company? we make games in Unity
>-but I don't know Unity
>-worry not
>he boots up Unity, makes a dick out of the primitives, attaches script to it and makes it go around on WSAD
>-you will figure the rest yourself, make a game in it and send it to my boss email along with a resume
>dabble in Unity over the weekend, make a sort of puzzle platformer game that combines TF2 rocket jumping with Braid local time dilatation
>send it, get a reply with invitation to free internship
>go there, after few meetings realize they are making a multiplayer game but have 0 idea what they are doing
>they have been wasting months using random meme frameworks and still 0 working prototypes
>implement basic networking using java server and protobufs in like 2 weeks
>show it to the boss and tell him to start paying me or I go elsewhere
>get hired for real

>>108638165
>extortion
based, sadly, we're living in this kind of world

>>108637767
for context, this was an internship paid at minimum wage, later on, a year later, got hired with decent enough pay
>>108638165
but this is a web dev general though, still cool stuff

>>108638182
An unpaid intern has no obligation to continue slaving for random shit company. I was there to gain experience, but it turned out that I was the one teaching them. It's only natural I asked to be paid.

>>108638190
Ah sorry I thought it's /dpt/. Well, he asked about any tech job anyway.

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>>108638212
couldn't agree more

>>108636527
>aligns perfectly with the slopocalypse

>>108638608
react has been industry's standard for quiet some years, it is just popular because it is popular, like snake biting its tail, not saying it's good or bad, since I can't even judge that, it just is

I need some advice from those of you who are actually employed in the area.

I want to learn backend development and from what I've gathered Spring Boot is the one that has the most jobs available. However, the only resources I've found are not to my liking because they either lack structure or cost too much.

Is there something else I could learn in its place, like Django with Python or something involving Node? I honestly have no idea on how employable I would be with those languages in the backend.

If there are some resources that you know of, please do share.

I know that the job market is not great at the moment but I'm not desperate, I just want to work in tech sometime in the future.

Derpal

>>108640010
>learning after 2023
Ask chat jeet pt

>>108640010
I never self learned, always enrolled in courses, both a blessing and a curse
so, from my pov, MAYBE, find a certification that provides resources and exercises you can learn from and be confident that you aren't being shit trained, or MAYBE, go fishing on github or gitlab, and you might find yourself a repo with theory, exercises and corrections you can follow
>>108643018
crab in a bucket mentality, if you aren't gonna help at the very least don't try to demoralize you fucking piece of shit nigger

>>108583406
That's because Express is a microframework and Laravel is a fullstack monolithic framework. It's like Django vs Flask, they serve different purposes.

>>108571294
I wouldn't tardwrangle the editor. I'd just write must-use-plugins. If shit breaks, its easier to locate the mistakes.

>>108638608
The jump in 2026 is pretty crazy, presumably due to "vibe coding", even though ChatGPT has existed since late 2022

hmmm i don't know what git service I should use, github is like everywhere and more people see you and you can contribute to a lot more projects, bigger visibility BUT it's microsoft.

GitLab, less visibility, has some big projects BUT it's not microsoft.

I really don't know what to use. What would you do if you were me /g/ ?

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Love how svelte keeps getting more complicated and retarded every year

I used to accept volunteers but I never had enough work for them

>>108637724
>copy paste 1-2 projects from youtube
Nah. Anyone can do that. Solve a real problem, even if the project is a lot simpler than the tutorialslop.
>grind leetcode
focus on actual, useful technologies instead

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Sirs any of you tried running some shitty ecomm?

I have 5+ backend yoe and looking to for a challenge.

Theres a couple of marketplace solutions in my country that pretend to avoid waste (food, clothing) but these jews charge exorbitant rates. I can buy almost expired food for only 10% less than fresh food. I know a second hand clothing mktp that literally takes 60% cut each sale.

I hate seeing people pretending to work for a good cause but being greedy like this. So can i use cloud free tiers and cheap vps to build a clone and charge the vendors way less? Chatgpt says that for under 5k users i should have a running cost in the order of 10-50usd.

>>108629598
React is cancer. Stop making slow sites you asshole.
Now with LLMs there's no excuse to use a framework. Have your chatbot create plain JS and just tell it to make it readable.

>>108646290
>github
steals data from goyim to train ai
>gitlab
same
>codeberg dot org
I suggest trying this. I dont know if they steal data (probably yes) but at least it isnt a 100% guarantee like major providers.
Also you can skip this jewry altogether, develop whatever software you want and provide the compiled version in a website.
>>108640010
LMAO
Yes, i advise choosing dotnet or spring for jobs, after you already have experience you can try migrating to trash like flask or node.
>the only resources I've found are not to my liking because they either lack structure
look for amigoscode on youtube, the webiste howtodoinjava, they are good. Pirate the book springboot in action via libgen.
You need to learn layer architecture (repo layer, service, controller), then learn exception handling, swagger, cloud, psql integration, kafka integration and thats all. Later you can learn hexagonal meme architecture.
>Is there something else I could learn in its place
backend architecure? doesnt matter if you using springboot or flask, you will need to know layers, db integration, api responses, cloud... the concepts are the same no matter the framework/lang.

>>108640010
unironically your best bet is focusing on tooling around AI shit rather than "general" backend frameworks. you can't really trust the "common" frameworks based on job posting because right now like 60% of job postings are companies just wasting your time with data gathering for non-existent positions, but there are a ton of posting looking for people who know stuff like LangChain or the AWS equivalent and i'm inclined to believe those are real because companies are trying to shoehorn AI into their products to appease investors.

of course, the best time to learn that shit would've been like a year and a half ago, that bubble could pop any day now who knows what the next meme will be

>>108650012
React just works while AI slop just doesn't

>>108650012
If your React page is slow then it's your fault. Learn to use it correctly.

>>108640010
I'm pretty sure NodeJS backends are way more popular than Django. Just learn expressjs and webpack(these will always be used) and whatever is the current FOTM backend framework.

>>108650043
>Also you can skip this jewry altogether, develop whatever software you want and provide the compiled version in a website.
I have read your comment too late and have moved to GitLab, will stay there now but thanks for your input

>>108651554
>webpack
most people switch to vite, webpack is legacy by now.
we moved most of our projects at work to vite too.

>>108646290
You don't have to use just one remote. You can host your code in multiple git services including self hosted if you really want to make things more complicated for yourself and your contributors.

>>108651581
I noticed this and some people really need to stop putting your whole node_modules and entire infrastructure on display to the world.

>>108651581
Vite is a framework, it counts as (whatever is the current FOTM backend framework). The bundler in question here is rolldown.

>>108651587
What

>>108651604
exactly what the fuck i just said moron

https://dev.to/jinjiang/understanding-how-vite-deals-with-your-nodemodules-3pdf

https://webpack.js.org/configuration/devtool/

>>108651621
Cool links, what about them?

>>108651604
>rolldown
you're right but my other stuff still stands, webpack is mostly legacy by now
>>108651587
I am using Yarn 4 and there is no traiditional node_modules, but also when an older project without pnp, node_modules is always in the .gitignore

>>108651635
>webpack is mostly legacy by now
Maybe, but esbuild, rollup, rolldown, vita, etc etc will all come and go, while webpack is just too universal and general to ever stop being used.

>>108651632
dude if you dont know what the fuck i'm talking about in regards to webpack right now just stop replying and keep your shitty vite config at default settings please

>>108651635
yes that is correct, idk how you actually are serving, but the main thing is not to include your source maps, you can use ..yarnignore but you should not rely on it, in the ideal world you would absolutely none of that in the document root in the first place

>>108651653
What

>>108651651
>>108651653
so do you people think it is still needed to learn how properly setup webpack? Because I have never done it since there is vite everywhere.

>>108651688
That depends on what you need it for. If your company is using vite everywhere then why bother learning webpack? If they use webpack then learn webpack. It's not like these things take months to learn. It's probably worth having at least a little experience in all commonly used frameworks and build tools.

>>108651703
okay thanks, I think I will set up at least one small vue or react project with just webpack and see how it goes. just to have seen it.

>>108568464
nvm I think you're right. ended up using libsodium for backend and hash-wasm argon2id for frontend.

I'm trying out Hono. Do I like it?

>>108653962
maybe

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I miss it, so much

would you stay at a place that mostly used vanilla

>>108654698
W-what was that. I remember this but it's such a hazy memory. Was this a feature of a browser or a website that injects some css into other websites?

>>108654944
it was old FF's 3d view of element inspector, it no longer exists as native, there might be an addon for FF that provides this functionality, but I wouldn't trust on it or bet on it, it was very good for selecting elements obscured behind tons of layers

>>108654944
It was a browser feature in firefox developer tools that let you see how html elements nested, kind of a topographic view. was neat

Go fucking sucks but it's the only thing I know that lets me embed assets/templates into a single binary

>>108654944
>>108654962
it's also my OC d;^)

>>108655119

let my_asset = include_bytes!("./goatsee.jpg");

>>108654698
edge can do this
with the massive downside of being microshart

>>108591437
Magento is a pile of steaming shit. Always has been. It's even worse than Navision, somehow.

I'd rather work in fucking retail than ever deal with Magento ever again.

>>108614609
third option: add generics finally

I vibecoded my own Namespaces in my custom MVC php project and also did the Pipeline and middlewares im good enought?

>>108655835
>hey guys let's "vibe code"
>wait why doesn't my website work
>wait where are there weird bugs
>wait why is taking longer to read the ai slop code and fix the ai slop code than it would have been to just write my own code in the first place

>>108655835
I guarantee it would get hacked if it ever got popular.

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>>108617885
>>108616836
>new php
Just use Java. Only 300 mb for Hello World app.

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How do you guy taste your projects?
I heard of people who runs server software on their won PCs to test their projects but that seems a bit too extreme for me.

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>>108657021
Yes. But my admin panel is hidden and can be configured to anything in the config,
everything outside /public is not accesible, running non existance controller will drop to 404.
My fear is spam/ddoss/flood and validation is not used in some fields haha etc -> sql error.
>>108656605
>hey guys let's "vibe code"
Yes and carefully Inspect and Test.
>wait why doesn't my website work
Its rock solid im proud. Works from any directory/protocol totally portable.
>wait where are there weird bugs
???
>wait why is taking longer to read the ai slop code and fix the
Debug methods is your tools and most of the problems its broken hardcoded links during development.

>>108656605
>hey claude fix this website
there, done
lmao at luddite cope

Where do I even begin using vanilla JS to add interactivity on my website, is putting everything into one script or split it up using ES6 modules better?

>>108657915
>is putting everything into one script
Wrong.. use OOP and TypeScript (in perfect world).
Better to make your app modular so split them by logic of cuz.

>>108657996
>how do I use X?
>just use Y instead lol, lmao even
I fucking hate this board sometimes but thanks for the tip, making it modular seems obvious now

>>108572363
It's very easy imo. Avoid stuff like Claude Code and just use AI as a glorified Google search bot. If I ask AI something I always type it out by hand. It's slower, but I feel like I understand the code way better that way. Plus I can make tweaks as I do so, and if I run into an issue I can ask AI. The biggest thing is that if you want to really learn you need to try doing some stuff on your own. So I might try writing a specific function, test it, and then ask AI to review. Also, you want to practice recall. Instead of always asking AI, especially if you've done it before, test your memory and try and then ask. You can really use it like an accelerated tutor bot that way + generally making it easier to break into new subjects and languages. This is especially true because if at any point you're like "I don't get this" you can, as you can imagine, ask AI.

>>108627937
Did I just teleport back to 2017 or something? There has been multiple new hotness options for startups and the Angular market was almost entirely consumed by React.

>>108657915
>is putting everything into one script
yes, one file should suffice if you're making some neocities shit.

Just rawdogged an one hour api update
No claude no prompt just typing code on a keyboard

>>108658440
Consider this: you pick up a new stack for your newest project, say tanstack. It's wonderful, fast, clean and you get the project running in under 3 months.
1 year later the stack has either
>been abandoned
>changes so much a migration would require months of rewriting or
>it's no longer popular, so you can't find someone to maintain it
Any respectable company knows this and chooses a set of tools that will survive long enough. React, Angular and Vue will most likely survive long enough for managers to invest on it, any other meme framework is a bet and not worth it.
And regarding the Angular thing, boomers still think Google backing it up and having a strict way of doing things are good stuff, so no - there are still dinosaur that won't accept React despite the benefits

>>108657863
Ah yes I know what will fix broken AI slop. More broken AI slop!

>>108582551
Job market hates PHP right now.

>anti-virus
>anti-malware
>Acronis cyberp protect
>VPN service at all times
>other tracking shit at all times
>laptop at 50% RAM just sitting on desktop

The price of remote work. Legit considering traveling 1 hour each way to the office, to avoid this brain damage.

>>108571294
We got sick of ACF and Elementor and now we just do Gutenberg blocks with some help from LLMs and our sites are faster and less full of bullshit

>>108572225
Get a third elephant if you do stuff for the Republicans
Can we get a fourth?

>>108607692
Meh, gzip or brotli is good enough unless you’re at Google scale
>>108646290
I have accounts on both
And I don’t hate Microsoft
>>108650043
Codeberg has fag flag colors at the bottom
>>108657808
This is the way
If it feels alien to you, stop using Windows and/or use Review Apps in Heroku or something
>>108657915
One module is fine until it isn’t
Start there

>>108659402
So what are you supposed to use for server-side, and don't tell me node.js

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Is there any merit in learning Wordpress at this day and age?

>>108659591
everyone is doing python, because someone said you need python for AI and there's a surplus of python programmers
plus managers want to add AI somewhere to their project, so even more python pull

also when you say PHP, do you mean just PHP, or Symphony/Laravel/Wordpress? because these are basically their own systems

>>108659621
I don't think anyone writes pure PHP anymore

>>108659732
I wrote pure PHP for 14 years, then lost my job and now I'm unqualified and old.

>>108659732
>>108659760
at least in germany there are still many job offers which require PHP

>>108659793
I see 3-4 adverts per month for PHP seniors, and its almost always gambling sites, which I don't want to work for on moral principle.

>>108659822
>its almost always gambling sites, which I don't want to work for on moral principle.
I wouldn't give a shit, if the job pays good I would take it.

What is the ((((industry standard)))) pattern for error handling and shit? I do this:

>Try a bunch of shit (routines or watever the corpo niggers call it), each routine can throw or just return an error, collect all errors then throw all at the same time so user can see all the retardedness they have requested
>Try one shit at a time and then throw an error (one at a time) on what retarded nonsense the user requested. If another part of their request is also retarded then they will find out later, kinda like blocking processes but in terms of retarded errors if you catch my tokyo doriftu
>Something else

>>108657915
You know you can still use a bundler with vanilla JS, right?

>>108659822
>has a limited choice with his experience
>someone's looking for a guy with his skills
>uuhm, sweaty, I'm not going to do that
I envy people who are so well off financially they don't have to work.

>>108660521
i have 200k in the bank, no debt, no car, no house, no wife, no children. i dont need to work this month, or even this year.
and honestly i'd rather do gay porn for money than work for a gambling company

>>108660425
Every time something is attempted with user inputted data, or on a different system/API, you try/catch. You return a well formatted string in the selected language for an error. You log the error in the database for admins to look at and count how many retards wrote their name in the address box.

>>108568380
argon2id is the best choice right now.

>joining a new project for a big corpo
>check their management tree
>HR is 100 women named Stacy McMahan
>QA is 100 men named Abdulhasan Muhamadali
>Business is 100 men named Schlomo Goldstein
>Development is 100 men named Ivanko Programkov

this is a caste system

>>108661412
>>Development is 100 men named Ivanko Programkov
Dev work seems to attract a real mix of ethnicities. Just look at GitHub projects. Here are some examples I can think of:
>GORM, the Go ORM, is led by Chinese devs
>Ent, another Go ORM, is led by Israeli devs
>Hono, the TypeScript web framework, is made by Japanese devs
>Calibre, the ebook software, is made by an Indian guy
Etc.

>>108661726
>>108660729
slavs r p. cool imo, they 420 noscope programming and are chill dudes

>>108661813
Yes, that's right.

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>>108661841
>Sukon Mikok

Why yes I did waste my entire today, leaving myself more work to do tomorrow

>>108660687
What about porn sites, you know they are the most visited ones on the net, you could get senior developer badge very fast.

Does anyone here have an affiliate marketing site? I want to get into it. I'm planning on building a site that scrapes the web for the best deals across a certain niche (in this case, lets say iPhone accessories)

For example, the domain would be something like

>BestiPhoneDeals.com

the site would be affiliate links to other sites that are selling iPhones and iPhone-related accessories. Most links will be from Amazon. When a user clicks on a deal they like on my website they will be taken to the actual website that is selling that product. When they make a purchase, I will receive a % of that sale (usually between 1-10% of that sale). So if someone were to buy an iPhone from one of my Amazon links on my website for $800 I could make like $80 from that sale.

Has anyone ever dabbled in this time of site before? There's a lot of them out there. I'm just wondering if it's worth my time or not. I mean, the site will practically be free to make. I'll build it with AstroJS, it will be hosted on Cloudflare pages so everything will be free. The only thing that will require real time on my end I believe is signing up to Amazon and other sites that have an affiliate program, and then scrapping those websites for their deals daily (I guess I would use AI for this), and have the AI update product files (these will be in markdown I'm guessing) and then git push to the site's repo and then Cloudflare pages should just rebuild my site and it will be updated.

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself I would love to hear anyone's thoughts or experiences with this type of stuff

>>108664464
But thats between me and claude

>>108664464
I've done this several days, now I'm trying to catch up, wouldn't recommend. as some say, the path in the midle

Can AI translate from a language to another without fucking up?

Like if I have the code from a cli tool written in C# and tell it to translate it into JS will it work or will it fuck up the libraries and deliver something broken?

>>108669185
>without fucking up
If AI could solve programming tasks without fucking up then every developer would probably have already been fired by now

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smdh