Pre-AI technology had so many difficult but rewarding problems, working as a programmer was both a fun and intellectually stimulating occupation. Now it is reduced to prompting a chatbot and occasionally quick-verifying the results. Reading the generated code further than function docstrings and high-level logic is considered unproductive and a waste of time.Apart from the existential threat to programming as a whole, I'm devastated to see something I have such a deep passion for get irreversibly ruined. Even if software engineering continues to exist in the future, it will never be as meaningful or enjoyable as it was just a few years ago.
It's still fun and intellectual if you refuse to use AI. But the days of proudly showing off your code are over because anyone can just say you used AI.
>>108576423I am an awful programmer, probably shouldn't even call myself that and yeah, those moments were something clicked because you thought through it will seldom happen now.There is still a place to do "raw" programming but it won't be related to any sort of business unless it's strictly related to computers themselves, like operating systems.Embedded seems to be safe so far from what I heard.
>>108576423>I'm devastated to see something I have such a deep passion for get irreversibly ruinedthis sounds so weird to mei could never be passionate about solving solved problemsleetcode fried your brains. the purpose of coding is building large scale apps for the benefits of human kind, not intellectual jackoff sessions "my O(NlogN) array sorting implementation is 0.0000002ms faster than yours" which applied to any other domain would turn you into a useless unemployed lolcow.
>>108576423Is it not satisfying to you that you can do the same but now be 10x faster at it? I think the only "downside" to AI is that you can't have a secret club anymore. Anyone can become an expert in your domain with just a couple hundreds prompts.
>>108576423>I'm devastated to see something I have such a deep passion for get irreversibly ruinedDon't worry it'll get even worse.
>>108576423It's like lamenting that you don't have to write everything in assembly anymore.I can build entire systems in days instead of months, solve problems at scale with nothing but a couple of agents.Things are better than they've ever been.
>>108576521>the purpose of coding is building large scale apps for the benefits of human kind, not intellectual jackoff sessions "my O(NlogN) array sorting implementation is 0.0000002ms faster than yours"This is a false dichotomy. You can't have those "large scale apps" without efficient algorithms on the backend.
>>108576423the dev who wrote this code back in the day was a 0.0001% dev and those same 0.0001% devs are still writing impressive code todayprojects like ffmpeg, the linux kernel, gpu drivers to power all that ai spend, all still need that same kind of ingenuity and attention of detailIt is true that AI makes shitting out JS landing page slop easier than ever though
I'm glad I never had this particular kind of autism that makes typing public static void main fun.LLMs have made this profession 10x more enjoyable to me.Most people complaining about AI aren't FAANG level genius engineers working on products that scale to 1 billion users anyway (because those guys ARE using LLMs).They are luddites who feel threatened and cope that way. Even if Opus writes the occasional bug, my coworkers, for the past 10 years, CONSTANTLY write bugs ALL THE TIME.
>>108576521human written code has an elegance to it, kind of like arranging a room neatly. AI slop works but its kind of shit because it is no longer discouraged to do things like avoid duplicate code or create patterns that make code readable and easier to digest since who cares, AI will figure it out.
>>108576521>applied to any other domain would turn you into a useless unemployed lolcowPeople file patents and rake in millions by doing this in other domains, retard.
>>108576934>efficient algorithms on the backend.unfortunately 0% of your leetcoding is applied irl, so what's the purpose? just a monkey dance for HR? architects and builders and even plumbers create with what they have, they dont waste time minmaxxing their tools foreverhence software ""engineering"" is seen as a replaceable meme
>>108576423eh, it was fun until i actually got a job in it. it was for working on a drupal webapp. I'd read the outdated and unfinished maze of docs and forum posts for hours on end to figure out the most basic nonsense. now with AI i don't remember the last time i had to sift through stack overflow threads. >>108576970this guy works lol.
>>108577059>leetcodingstrawman
>>108577110>strawman>>108576934>false dichotomy>>108576423>fun>>108576976>eleganceZero arguments outside vague feelings and highschool debate buzzwords is exactly why yall getting replaced.
>>108577178>"elegance" is a vague buzzwordok chandala
he said vague feelings, which>>108576976>has an elegance to it, kind of like arranging a room neatly.is pretty much a vague feeling.
>be me>put all my heart to do a python assignment>read books>write nice python code>refactor it twice to make it tidy and clean>comment everything>teacher points out the comments and assume it is LLM madeit's ogre
>>108576423>working as a programmer was both a fun and intellectually stimulatingwriting code has always been considered to be a low tier practice in the field. if you have fun writing code, you are probably not a fun person.
>>108576521>for the benefits of human kindweird way of saying shareholder value
>>108576423meanwhile in 1980:>Pre-C technology had so many difficult but rewarding problems, working as a ASM programmer was both a fun and intellectually stimulating occupation. Now it is reduced to pointers and arrays. Reading the generated assembler is considered unproductive and a waste of time. Apart from the existential threat to programming as a whole, I'm devastated to see something I have such a deep passion for get irreversibly ruined. Even if software engineering continues to exist in the future, it will never be as meaningful or enjoyable as it was just a few years ago when I was writing "STM R14,R12,12(R13)" by hand
>>108577331Next time write your comments in swahili
>>108577577AI does everything for you with minimal work on your end. What the fuck are you smoking?
>>108577577Going from one programming language is fundamentally the same thing as far as challenge and mental stimulation are concerned, you dumb nigger. Programming is now transitioning from problem solving to the equivalent of babysitting a bunch of Indians shitting out slop code that you either accept or answer with “no do it better.” Not at all the same thing. I repeat, you’re a dumb nigger.
>>108577577You fundamentally don't understand the difference. Both ASM and C leave control flow entirely to the programmer. Python is the same, just a higher level of abstraction.Vibe coding is using English as the specification for the software. It is ambiguous and the LLM is left to generate code to fulfill its interpretation of the prompt. Many people went into programming because of it's deterministic nature - in particular autists, who hate ambiguity.
>>108577387>writing code has always been considered to be a low tier practice in the fieldLet's be honest here at some point normies busted into this profession after getting brainwashed by hollywood media that a job where you sit on a chair and tap tap tap on a keyboard all day is felt and seen as high-IQ, glamorous, rewarding, and makes you look cool. Quasi clout chasers. That's why from outside people can't wrap their mind around it, they think it's all about coding by hand.>>108577710>Many people went into programming because of it's deterministic nature - in particular autists, who hate ambiguity.If I walk into an office right now I maybe get to see one or two legitimate autists, the rest is DEI trash that doesn't belong there. You are referencing a time long gone. It's over.
Still exactly 0 vibe slopped programs in the wild, are the sloppers hoarding them or something? Coding has been obsolete for 2 years already.
>>108576521>Guise, stop intellectually jacking off.Fuck you, Shlomo. I'll tug my neurons off as much as I want, whenever I want.
>>108577844>Still exactly 0 vibe slopped programs in the wildandroid app store is full of that
>>108577844https://fly.pieter.com/https://x.com/levelsio/status/1897081230467686810
>>108577777jackpot winrar!what you said now comes true!
>>108576521>i could never be passionate about solving solved problemsThat's like telling "I could never be passionate about playing already written music" to a pianist kek.
>>108576423If you can avoid AI retards and just automate things with old abstractions like libraries/loops/classes/first class functions you will brutally mog but you have to pay lip service to the ai cult publiclyDo not use AI too much for your personal workflow because as you add less peer reviewed/proven correct systems the incorrectness will compound and make you useless
>>108576521>building large scale apps for the benefits of human kindThe apps are only large scale to get network effect & monopolize/extract value, which is necessary to fund R&D and risk when bringing a new concept to the market but not a moral actionThe morally "good" action is the open sourcers who create an interoperable protocol based upon the proprietary software, but even those guys are basically ripping off features from loss leaders that funded it to create said monopoly
>>108576423>Pre-AI technology had so many difficult but rewarding problems, working as a programmer was both a fun and intellectually stimulating occupationYes, anon, building yet another database front-end was so intellectually stimulating. Just like fixing bugs in ancient legacy systems. >>108578335>you will brutally mogNo, you will "brutally mog" if you understand product, the effect your work has on the business, can talk about technology to non-technical people without sperging out and are willing and capable to lead projects and teams. "Writing code" is already a commodity rather than some kind of special skill no one else has.
>>108577668Ai can't even do topo sort with multiple key constraints. Even after using 100k tokens it fails to pass it's own automated tests.
>>108578525Yeah that's all shit you learn by getting a job after you learn cs fundamentals and not being an ai vibe coder retard
>>108578231Are you really comparing a programmer to a pianist?
