>>108614824
thx I needed this

>>108614824
I agree. I had to go through so much shit on every fresh Win 11 install, days of debloating and fixing the issues that arised from said debloating. On Linux I can get my stable system set up in a few hours.

>>108614824
Linux is more fiddly, but at least in Linux if you fuck something up it's usually your fault, can be avoided in the future by learning how things work, and has a clear fix. Windows is opaque and denies the user full control which makes troubleshooting much more frustrating.

i used to play with customising windows like with nlite but it's a pita if something doesn't work later since windows isn't designed to be modular, and it's an even bigger pain to maintain such a customised system. it's really not worth trying to do anything to windows, it does everything it can to make doing so painful.

meanwhile on linux my basic customised wm setup hasn't been changed since before windows 8 came out and i haven't had to do anything to hold on to it, i simply use it

>>108614824
>finally, the mac is unboxed, what should i buy?

>>108615003
>nlite
Except for its driver removal thing, why bother with it?

>>108615056
remove all the shit i don't need, which ends up being most of the os. yea, even back then

It's even worse than that. The average person doesn't interact with their computer at all outside of specific programs. They leave all of the insanity like onedrive or the search enabled. If something doesn't leave a shortcut they don't know where to find it. Provide an installer that just unzips a folder into the right place because they won't be able to do it themselves. Linux is only a leap because it's their first time actually interacting with the computer.

The Windows users who actually know what they're doing don't realize that most Linux complaints come from these retards described above who have to google things like "How do I run a zip file". The onus is still on the experienced users to not take popular social media hearsay on anything seriously and it's not my job to teach them.

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>have 10 year gap on installing Windows
>give it a try
>installation done, want Firefox
>blank stare
>remember that you need to go browsing the internets to get software as Windows doesn't manage software on its own
>search "Firefox" on a search engine
>see mozilla.org
>blank stare again
>be like "wtf is Mozilla? I want Firefox"
damn them memory holes

>>108615068
You DO know there is other software out there? The Windows general has a bunch of them.

>>108614824
>Once it's set up, that's it, you don't need to touch it.
For Linux, yes. Windows, no. You constantly have to fight every update, you need fucking third-party software just to disable the dozens of tracking/spyware/adware features (and then you need to run that software again after any major update which resets everything).
If a Linux update fucks something up, I can roll things back. If I update a kernel and it fucks up some drivers (which has happened before) and I don't want to mess around to reconfigure shit, I can simply reboot into the previous kernel.

>>108615046
lmao

>>108614824
I've installed CachyOS from original ISO and it was ready to go.
Meanwhile I've spent 4 hours installing Windows on a working laptop with drivers, basic software (office, 7zip etc), removing telemetry.

>>108615164
that's what op is referring to

>>108614824
Never bothered with removing anything from w7. It only needed some obscure mobo driver rarely, a bunch of useful utilities here and there and it was good to go.

>>108614824
>Do you want to install Office 365?
>How about a free trial?
>Are you sure?
>Okay. Don't worry about it. We'll skip that part.
>Better login to your Microsoft account for this next part.
>Don't want to? Well too bad.
>What kind of things do you plan on using your computer for anyways?
>*an hour later*
>So... want to install Office 365 right?
>No? Okay. I'll ask you later.
>Lets do four or five restarts for no apparent reason.

>>108614948

Case in point: both OS's will kernel panic or bug check at some point.
>linux
>Stack trace directly to the screen and can be viewed in journalctl
>search final couple frames in stack trace
>top result is arch Linux forum post about exact topic that has both a .patch you could apply to the kernel and then build yourself, or shows which commit you could build to pick up the fix

>windows
>OH NO :((((( SOWWY
>error code that is either completely useless polluted search term that has tons of spam and scam AV offerings, or leads to an official Microsoft forum where an unpaid microjanny suggests you reboot the machine
>have to go open an old ass windows xp era UI to configure minidumps
>then hope it happens again
>then install dumpchk and finally view the dump to see which shitty driver caused the bug check
>maybe hope updating fixes it

>>108615720
I have never ever had linux kernel panic on me.
It is just too stable.
I have heard plenty of horror stories of people losing hours of work on windows but on linux I’ve never heard of people losing their work.
Of course you could say “>Le linux people are unemployed and don’t do any work. har har.” But I’m not so sure these days.

>>108614824
you are right
I should try windows again
>No Device Drivers Were Found
>Please insert driver CD

Anyone want to hook me up with some cock tribs on my gf?

>>108614824
that's a nice little joke
i chuckled

windows is aids btw

>>108614948
>Linux is more fiddly
Feels like your mileage may vary. I've had to fiddle with windows far more, not just after installing it because of the new bloat but through it's lifetime as well. Sometimes it isn't even caused by the OS itself but the drivers, dependencies and programs
Not to mention viruses which often masquerade as a silent windows service, and only pop up briefly, which sends you into a whole crusade to figure out what is legit and what isn't.

>>108614824
>install windows in 10 minutes
>permanently activate with MAS in 1 minute
>debloat with script from github in 5 minutes
>spend 30 minutes grabbing essential programs and customizing
>maybe grab a driver or two from vendor website if needed
>it mostly just werks
>run sfc /scannow once in a while
>don't have to reinstall OS for years unless you horrifically fuck something up with has gotten harder to do these days

>install arch based distro in 10 minutes
>spend hours on setup, troubleshooting broken programs, fucking around with AUR and installing git versions of programs
>discover your original boot loader and file system and partitioning wasn't optimal
>reinstall and spend another hour on setup
>make custom scripts to do things you could easily do on windows without scripting anything
>accidentally break pacman with pacdiff and have to restore from snapshot after an hour of failing to fix it manually
>endless problems for anything and everything after updating
>random GPU issues
>spend hours fiddling with config files trying to fix things that should just work
>random boot failures requiring snapshot restore
>discover random limitations in popular programs that require annoying workarounds
>sleep randomly doesn't work
>look up sleep issue and lusers tell you to just not use sleep mode

Despite my many complaints about desktop linux I now use it full time since it's gotten much easier to run games and microsoft keeps shoving in LLM features and is starting to vibe code parts of things.

>>108614824
yeah pretty much I just installed GNOME fedora and ran dnf a few times for whatever software

>You've just memory holed yourself
You, a person I have never met, decided to come to this conclusion about me.
You're insane if you think this is going to somehow convince me of anything other than he fact you're a loony.
You're not even replying to one of my posts or anything like that, you made up this argument in your head and created a thread about it.

>>108617060
>>spend 30 minutes grabbing essential programs and customizing
>>108617088 I didn't even spend that long installing my OS and grabbing a few programs

>>108614824
actually yes you do
windows can be very fiddly, you can spend hours in group policy or the registry if you want to, i'll stick to the unix paradigm of everything being a file

>>108615109
>it's not my job to teach them.
It kind of is though, no? Not you specifically, but as an open source project it is up to the community to tell people how it works.
99% of the time I interact with the Linux community they are more than happy to share their knowledge, after telling you that you chose the wrong distro, of course.
The Windows community pretends they know shit.
"just run sfc /scannow" (This topic has been marked as resolved".

>>108617103
He was talking about Linux, not Windows

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>>108615046

>>108617060
it's a little unfair to compare setup times between something you've reinstalled once a year for decades and something you've never installed before

>>108617060
>broken programs
>things that don't work
>arch """based"""
oh yea, it's Manjaro time

>>108618478
I would never use Manjaro because the name is silly. I exclusively pick a distro based on how cool the name sounds to me, so I picked Arch because I thought it was like an arch wizard.

>>108615068
>>108615056
>>108615003
all you need is dism and the iot ltsc iso
anything beyond that is SKILL ISSUE™

>>108617207
>The Windows community
Such as? You're not talking about the jeet infested MS forums are you?

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>>108618689
>You're not talking about the jeet infested MS forums are you?
I sure am. Anyone would think that the first point of call should be the official forum.

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>>108614824

I am trying and I am tired brother. Making my way through bashcrawl with my son.

>>108614824
>Once it's set up, that's it, you don't need to touch it
...until the next update.

>>108618780
Talking about not needing to touch Linux.
You need to remove shit every update on Windows. That's why all Linux users do is post anime wallpapers and fastfetch, because there's nothing left to do.

>>108615720

Out of all the bullshit Microsoft pulls, the :( on a blue screen is the most offensive. The first time I got a blue screen and saw a fucking emoticon, I felt like the OS was making fun of me. Just show an error code and shut the fuck up.

>>108618819
0x80004005

>>108614824
>uninstall shit in windows.
>start pc the next day, shit has reinstalled itself.
Nothing that I've ever installed on linux spontaneously uninstalled itself after a non-consentual update.
Sure, it's broken from me using the computer at the wrong time of day, but that's a different story.

>>108615720
What the fuck is this kernel panic shit everyone always talks about. In two years of using Linux on two different machines I have had a number of minor errors, but never once a full crash. Even the minor errors were almost all caused by Nvidia being gay as hell.

>>108619097
a safety mechanism in Unix where the OS halts because of a fatal error it cannot recover from, preventing data corruption. When your shit freezes.

>>108614824
>you don't need to touch it
applies to children and trannies too btw

>>108618928
>0x80004005
SKILL ISSUE

>>108617060
If you are new to Linux and choose Arch then you made the wrong choice, you can not complain.
>Buy a Ford
>It mostly works fine but uses too much gas and had some reliability issues
>Everyone says Toyotas are better than Fords so I bought the bare chassis of a 1987 Supra
>I had to find my own engine, get a winch to put it in, I tried to get all the parts together but I had to hire a mechanic to help me because I'm not good with cars
>Cost me twice as much as buying the Ford
>Never buy a Toyota they're a waste of time and money

>>108619163
I switched to Linux one week ago and I picked Arch. Why what's the problem with it?

>>108619121
I understand what it is, but why does everyone act like it happens every 5 minutes? I've used Mint, Debian, and Arch pretty extensively. I did a full manual install of Arch without really knowing what I was doing. Never once happened to me on any distro. How common actually is it?

>>108619211
Happened to me once when I was compiling QT5 from source. Hasn't happened since.

>>108619202
It's fine if you used the install script, or followed a decent guide and did a sensible install. Might cause some issues on updates, although that never affected me. It was more of a problem in the past when people didn't know what they were doing and had to try to piece it together themselves.

>>108614904
>days
kek'd

>>108619202
It's known for having mandatory manual interventions every once in a while and users fucking themselves over through it's AUR, which it's use has been normalized rather than being flagged as the last resort and something to keep tabs on. If you use it, make sure you read what the packages do.

>>108619236
So nothing wrong with it just that it's too hard for retards?
I did archinstall when I first tried it on the vm, although when I first went into even that I didn't know what the fuck anything meant. Everyone told me I should do it manually or I didn't really install it. So when I did the full install I did it manually from the arch guide and it was just as easy.
Was a bit harder trying to figure out how to swap the install to my nvme without losing all my settings and packages but I managed.

>>108615130
>>remember that you need to go browsing the internets to get software as Windows doesn't manage software on its own
thats how it should be.
fucking linux fags and your retarded repositories. eat shit
err, sudo eat shit

>>108619273
Yeah I quickly realised that the AUR is gay. I have a few things from there but most are official packages or flatpaks.

>>108619280
>you must take your time to visit the website of each program you want
>sites might change their url so it's hard to automate
>every single program attempts to update on its own terms
>every piece of shit has its own background service running to fetch the updoots
>every single one of them will send you a notification, which you must disable manually
It sure doesn't seem like the "smart choice" to me

>>108619371
Based and realistic. Except he should be a woman.

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>>108619507

>>108619278
Basically yes. There's a certain type of person who will find or cause problems any time they try something new, and those are often the same type of person who will install Arch due to memes. If those people went straight to Mint they would probably do OK, but Arch gives you a lot more opportunities to fuck up completely.

>>108619628
I don't mind it. Part of me really enjoys it. I have a really tinkery mindset. I grew up breaking the family PC and having to fix it before mum got home.

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installing the latest version of windows + activating and debloating and changing all the settinge and finding every applications website and download link is 100x more effort and time consuming compared to installing almost distros. people are just scared of change something something baby duck, it doesnt matter how shit windows is theyll still use it

>>108619788
>installing almost distros
installing almost any distro

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>get new android phone
>remove/disable as much as I possibly can
>go through a period where the phone will whine at me saying "Error, Please enable Google Services!", which will eventually stop after a week.
>Install F-Droid
>Use apps exclusively from it.

>>108614824
Microsoft is constantly touching it for you and fucking it up unless you wall it off from their bullshit which is an entire tinker tranny process in itself. You winshill damage control mongoloids make me sick
>posted from windbloat 11

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>>108619810
It's less tiresome with something like Graphene.
>>108619280
What's wrong with repositories?

>>108619097
I've had it a bunch of time on arch based shit and I think it stemmed from a kernel incompatibility with the hardware I was using. I can see someone never having it happen because I've gone years without it but if you have it it will just be a perpetual cycle until you just abandon the OS you're using for something with ebtter compatibility

>>108619847
>kernel incompatibility with the hardware
Yeah when a new branch arrives they should wait until *.*.20 or so before going for it. Or use linux-lts or whatever Arch brands as the second most recent branch, "LTS" isn't that old or anything when speaking of those bleeding edge distros.

>>108619280
>he has to go to all the different websites and install things one by one instead of writing a list of program names and installing them all at once

>>108619828
This is an anti Windows post, anon.

>>108619708
Yeah man that's cool, me too. You should be fine.

>>108619844
But how do I play my gachaslop on Graphene?

>>108615130
why would anyone edit out his beyblade, ripcord, and smile?

>>108619270
if you don't already know how to disable every single encroaching microupdate it'll take days to figure out what needs attention. Edge keeps reinstalling, now copilot appears because you left some specific update vector open, you have to find some random file to run to keep it from re-enabling updates on restart, etc. I never got my windows 10 pc fully void of its windows stds before I swapped to linux, and my wife complains about her windows system doing something unexpected that I have to solve every couple weeks.

True. Windows is technically easier if you're a turbo normie who loves to consume slop. But if you actually want performance and productivity Linux is an investment.
Linux gets better over time. Windows gets worse.

>>108619810
I installed Lineage on a new (2023 refurbished) phone. It's awesome but no matter what I do I can't get tap to pay to work. I even folded and sideloaded Google services.

>>108620847
Have you tried gluing your bank card to your phone case?

>>108620949
That's the thing, I lost it a few weeks ago and had trouble getting a replacement.
But also what's the point of having an NFC chip if you can't use it?

>>108615046
I don't remember buying anything other than Alfred and Photoshop .

>>108620999
>I didn't buy anything except these things I bought

>>108614824
can i plug in a random no-brand aliexpress headset and it just works? no, i cannot. the only thing linux is useful for is hosting web servers, that's it.

>>108621304
I have a random no brand headset, let me try
>it just works
what the fuck?

>>108621304
>can i plug in a random no-brand aliexpress headset and it just works?
Basically every single time, yes. I've got some pretty obscure hardware, cheap chink made gamepads and a USB microphone, all kinds of random audio gear like 3 different midi keyboards, a USB midi-wah which is only made by a tiny Italian company, etc. Everything has worked immediately with absolutely 0 setup. Like, better than windows. Even on windows I would occasionally have stuff that didn't register or I would need to manually find drivers or whatever, has never once happened on Linux.

Maybe I have been lucky but I suspect these windows shills have either never tried Linux, or tried it like 10 years ago and think its still the same.

>>108622109
I tried it 20 years ago and it was shit. Maybe I'll try again in another 20.

>>108614824
you don't uninstall the slop after installing windows, you get a debloated iso that never had the slop in the first place

>>108614904
>fixing the issues that arised from said debloating
I swear, you debloat niggers still haven't figured out that debloating isn't debloating shit if you're breaking the system. You're disabling critical components.
Your best debloating mechanism is full screen experience mode which actually does what you want it to do whereas debloating does fuck all.

>>108614948
Windows is the only OS I can install and walk away. Dumb asses who debloat it or try and do optimizations end up getting what they deserve.
The only Linux installs that have ever been stable and problem free for me are steamOS and LTS builds of distros made by companies with paid teams of devs.

>>108622277
link or it didn't happen

>>108622295
>Windows is the only OS I can install and walk away.
So Windows is the OS for people who don't actually use their computer for anything, they just have it because they were told they needed one.

>>108615164
Lol no just no.
Stop dEbLoATiNg shit and trying to do optimizations. Your tricks do nothing just break windows and yet you, the retard, bitch and moan about your mistakes being the reason windows sucks.

>>108614824
I dont know about the rest of windows but the windows file explorer is more unintuitive, ugly, slower and has less basic features than KDE dolphin. I was flabbergasted when i realized that it doesnt even let you unselect specific files when you drag select multiple files
It feels like freetard shit from 2010

>>108614824
It can be very fiddly if you want to play certain non-Steam games. I'd still rather use Linux.

>>108622309
>So Windows is the OS for people who don't actually use their computer for anything
Since this is /g/ you clearly are some tech worker who thinks the entire world is based around your myopic code IDE bubble.
The majority of the world
> Uses web browsers
> Checks their email
> Uses 1 or 3 major core programs like office, outlook, and maybe some software package like AutoCAD, adobe, altium, etc to design real things and not digital vibe coded dog shit.
And expecting it to turn on and just work is expected.
Troonix is fun when I have time to tinker (rare). The rest of the world doesn't.
Now get back to coding goygrammer, you have an LLM to teach.

>>108622326
>it doesnt even let you unselect specific files when you drag select multiple files
Works in my Windows 10 install

>>108614824
I lernt this truth however scoop for windows is better than snap, flat, or apt or whatever these gay things are.

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>>108615720
>journalctl

I've been using all big 3 (Windows/Linux/macOS) for a while
Realistically all of them need fiddling unless you're very complacent or biased.
When I install linux the experienced varies depending on which distro I use. If it's something like CachyOS where a lot of stuff is preinstalled, after some time and some fixes came out, the only thing I really need to fuck with 2 files so that I get a specific gamepad to work fine and my mouse to scroll properly. The rest is practically working fine. Practically. I cannot really undervolt my GPU because I'll experience some crash here and there, unfortunately.
When I install Windows, I have to make sure to disable a lot more shit than on linux. Initially it's slow, then it settles. I have to disconnect my ethernet cable in order to create a local account. That alone is a pain in the ass. I don't want some of the preinstalled stuff that actually runs in the background rather than just take space. Everything works though once it's all done.
macOS is very deceiving, people say it just werks, but in my experience I have to do some tweaking there as well. I need to install an application to make scrolling work properly with my mouse. I have to install an application to make the screen not blurry on my external monitor. I need to fuck with firefox's framerate settings for it not to be laggy. It's probably the most annoying by default actually. It has very weird defaults and a lot of shit I cannot actually easily disable or handle without triggering 30 different security systems. Can I get it to work the way I want? Yes. But unless you're really complacent I don't think it's all that good.

When you go from windows to linux, there's some learning curve, but a lot of things can be (to a point) adapted to be similar. macOS is definitely more annoying about it and wants you to commit

>>108622295
>how dare you remove slopilot and attempt to get some real performance out of your system

Windows needs, as in, requires, hard requirement, obligatory, mandatory, to disable these things by default:
-Copilot in its entirety including all "apps" with it
-Any semblance of ads
-Shitty applications from the store that nobody other than grandmas want
-Mandatory online account (well hopefully, this one will actually be disabled soon but only because they got pressured)
-All these bullshit prompts about whether you want your data to be gathered, the answer shall always be no by default
-Online search should be opt-in, the local search is already sluggish as it is
I would say all sorts of telemetry should also be opt-in, but hey, you'll have a bunch of retards telling you "how are they supposed to fix the OS if they don't have some basic data about how it fails on certain setups". My response to that is simple: Since 2015, the vast majority of Windows users don't actually disable telemetry, they don't know what it is or only disable it on a surface level and don't use any of these debloating scripts, and Windows remains shit and buggy. They have all sorts of information available and if they do use it for that purpose, they must be fucking something up in the process. So no, they should not have default access to something they cannot use properly.

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>>108614824
Adding stuff to Linux is easier than removing stuff from Windows (but for most distros you can pick what you want during installation). FOSS drivers are better in a sense as they don't require internet connection post install (openrazer). I tried 11 LTSC with some Aero theme and with all the drivers and shit, it ate 4-5GB RAM idle without Steam and Discord running in bg. Also some DRMs from games stay on Windows even after uninstall. On Linux proton containers are a good thing.

>>108614824
>You've just memory holed yourself into what a fresh Windows install is actually like
>install windows
>time to install what i need for what i want to do
>install troonix
>time to install core os functionality

>>108614948
>Windows is opaque and denies the user full control
anon got filtered by a UAC prompt

>>108622109
>Maybe I have been lucky
You haven't, that's just how it is. There's more than enough generic drivers in the kernel to make it just werk.

>>108622313
Saar just leave all the telemetry do not redeem the debloating

>>108622349
>not digital vibe coded dog shit
But that's what Win11 is

>>108624552
>install troonix
>time to install core os functionality
It's 2026 Anon we don't need to do that anymore. Just install KDE Plasma and you're done. It handles everything.

>>108625305
>telemetry
nta but bitching about os telemetry in a post-internet (((hardware backdoor)))-ridden world is getting old

>>108614824
>no more fiddly than Windows
Yeah, that's why we use linux. Because it's less fiddly, and at it's worst,
>no more fiddly than Windows.

>>108614824
Which sentence does your third sentence reference? The first or the second?

>>108625689
The first. You frequently have to touch windows to uninstall the shit you don't want every time it updates.

>>108614824
>You've just memory holed yourself into what a fresh Windows install is actually like.
I absolutely have not.
https://rentry.org/concisewin10

>>108625703
Yeah that's the only context where the sentence makes logical sense.
as per >>108625675

>>108625714
Why are the installation instructions longer than the page for a manual Arch install?

NTSync when?

>>108622295
>The only Linux installs that have ever been stable and problem free
why do you insist on tinkering on linux if you just leave windows as is? install fucking ubuntu or fedora or manjaro and walk away

>>108619202
it's not designed for normalfags who want something they can just leave alone

>>108614824
Linux breaks more often, is easier to break, and is harder to fix. With Windows, unless you start deleting system files or install viruses, it will just work. At worst it slows down. Even 20 year old Windows is way harder to brick by accident than Linux.

works on my machine (mac)

>>108628529
Linux is easier to break because you have absolute control over your computer and it will let you do dumb stuff that is obviously gonna break it. If you, as an uninformed user, don't needlessly fiddle outside of your homedir or frivolously use sudo in a stable distro, it breaks as often as windows or less.

>>108627649
It's just really granular, you already install W10 by step 16, everything after that is just polishing and completely optional.

>>108628978
You can break Linux by putting it into Suspend.

>>108615130
>remember that you need to go browsing the internets to get software as Windows doesn't manage software on its own
>not 'winget install firefox'
Sounds like a skill issue to me.

>>108620847
It's pretty hard to get GPay to work under Lineage, Google keeps breaking Play Integrity on custom roms/unlocked bootloaders.

Some banks offer tap to pay from their own app, if not Curve Pay is also an option (Europe only)

>>108614824
I find linux more simple than windows.

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>>108622313
Howdy doo please poo in the loo.

>>108614824
>
lmao

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>>108632517
forgot picrel

>>108621304
>can i plug in a random no-brand aliexpress headset and it just works?
my random no-brand chinese headset just worked in bazzite

the volume buttons work even more consistently than they did in windows

>>108622295
>the only linux installs that have been stable and problem-free were the ones designed to be stable and problem-free
insightful

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>>108614824